Conversation 542-005

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I've been so careful about being low key and I'm trying to look at it.

I haven't even told my wife how crazy it is.

But I tell you, I tell you the most incredible thing in my life.

I think we may have something here more than we realize.

Because with young people, all of the young people, he wants a burger on a rock.

But what about your friend in the Bronx?

He makes a lot of money.

I have an interesting friend that

I want to talk about these kids over in London, Stanford School in London.

As the kids all got together afterwards, the professor said, this is one of the things, one way or the other, it's a terrible thing to do this year.

Next is re-election.

The professor, I don't know how they're going to come to the president of Stanford, but he said, well, that's the next thing we've got to do anyway.

The way we are.

And here's a president who is

reverse the facts.

He's opened up, he's changed the ball game.

He's settled the debt.

And it's a free, open kind of thing, the way young people are.

I mean, it's saying, God damn it, what are the facts?

The facts are these.

And bang them.

That's a dealer.

Now, what did they do with Lester?

That was a PR.

And also, as Henry put it, he said, the President of the Prime Minister was here, and of course the President should see, and of course it should be a big story.

And he needed to change the American President to the President of the Prime Minister.

The Democrats candidates are lined up in dozens to go over there, and we can't stop them from going.

The leaders aren't going to want to see every senator that comes over.

They're going to say, what's your thing?

You know, I don't think they're going to want to see it.

But as far as American people are concerned, too, when the American president goes, I don't care whether it's Kennedy, Musty, Kennedy, Musty, the rest of them will go wild.

They're going to go see John.

But we've already said we're coming.

And they also know we're going to talk about the ball game.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

But you find that it really is the youth thing.

There's no question about it.

It has to be reinforced, but it has that free...

realistic approach instead of the person all wired down with years and experiences and patterns and traditions and unwilling to face today.

You face today.

That's what they were.

I mean, there's a great deal of that.

There's another thing, which is very, very heavily emphasized with young people, which I think is, which is, they did what I did say, and nobody really can listen, not much.

China is really not about this generation, it's about theirs.

Because it's not a threat five years from now, 10 years from now, maybe 20 years from now, China has been an acceptable threat.

And I think there's a deal with that.

Also, they see China as an example.

uh...

I think we've covered that.

See, your approach in the cabinet meeting about don't just blow your tongue, I'm not going to speculate, I was in the Godfrey's early breakfast this morning at all those reporters over at the National Press Club.

I did it.

Craig, they stopped asking questions and just got off China.

I said, let me.

If there's any purpose for any of the presidents, bellwethers, and everything that you're talking about, I'm not going to speculate about it.

And they stopped acting quickly.

It works.

You know, that's not hard.

It's too bad.

Well, it's too bad we can't allow speculation.

All of them.

Because it would be wonderful for people to be able to... Everybody wants to hear about it.

There's an enormous divide.

I mean, to talk about really the effect of the Japanese, the effect of the Indians, the effect of the Indonesians, the effect of the war, of course, which who knows?

You see, it makes us interested in a far more interesting to all the nations in the world than we were before.

Because we got a new car.

Did you know that Kurt De Gaulle ever visited China?

uh, Churchill didn't actually, uh, Peter didn't do it, he did it, he did it, he did it, Wilson, he was perfectly willing to go and they never invited him.

And, uh, so on and on and on and on.

Here we've got a situation where, uh, and as a matter of fact, Henry Kissinger spent more time with Joe than I have, that all the non-communist ambassadors have spent, in the time they have been here, many have spent 21 hours

You know, your Kansas City speech, I sat there at the table when you did ours for you.

And it was so fabulous that I took it and used it at the National Conference of Lieutenant Governors.

Well, you did.

Lieutenant Governors and their wives.

And I adapted it for me.

And I've never seen such a reaction.

And it came up afterwards just gone.

Just before Actors' Cup.

It was...

Two days after he came out, they came up and lined up and he just said, my God, that is so brilliant.

You know what I figured out why?

I figured out why.

Well, here are these guys breaking their bandages, state government, local government, all this crap.

And here's a guy who comes in and told them that the world's watching.

Because I was told that every country I went to, they're looking at how we run government, how we do business, how we do labor, how we do this.

We're a model.

And I told them that and made them important.

And then talked about the world the way you did in Kansas City.

And it lifted them out of the morass.

It made what they're doing simpler and important and a part of it.

And I'll tell you, I think that's the best campaign theme, that moral health, physical health, governmental health is important because of the world.

You know, it's an interesting thing.

The streets got it.

It was, of course, but it got a rather modest play.

You'd expect an incredible speech to get.

Very modest play.

Very modest.

Just after it was made, and then after the trailer, they all discovered they had a shitter.

Actually, it's actually a good theme, and it also gets people in our regs, and it lifts them out of their mundane.

You know, most people do dull things, and they also think, well, Jesus, what I do matters.

Putting that bolt in right matters.

That's right.

Or that thing, right?

Preparing that paper better does matter.

Gee, we're in competition, and here we are.

Power is great.

No free, open world.

But by God, the United States has got to prove that it's got something.

It isn't like it used to be, boys.

Is that the way you hit it?

Did you hit the five anchors?

Exactly.

The five economic powers.

The great five superpowers.

One thing I'd add, it was a stronger pick for national defense.

I think it's important to the domestic speakers start doing that now, hard, so that they understand that we're not talking about moving priorities any farther.

And so I get that part that comes best out of me.

It surprised me a lot.

And probably, I mean, you know what I mean, they don't, not appease me, but they think of me as an interesting name.

Yes.

So it comes good with me, and it works.

You know, it's a very curious thing as to what it does to our

democratic crimes.

We must remember that in the latter part of the 1970 campaign, we all thought, I think quite greatly, that after my October 7th, you know, cruise would be in

and that we refused the war issue, and the fact that they had refused, and all of us were running around the police with cars that had been engraved in the country, not with them, divided by the crime game, the war issue, well, that was fine, up to a point.

But what I really meant is that our Democrats then were able to talk about their issue, which was the common community that our brains saw in many places.

The point that I make is that

when you look at the pentagon papers must be is the guy that made the great big speech in 1968 in chicago defending the reactions of vietnam denny kennedy's brother is the one who got me assassinated

next year at this time and i won't put it any sooner than that it might be much sooner it might be but it won't be any later all right

Then we have got to not let them forget it.

It's like, in political terms, it's like the bloodshed of the Civil War.

They've got to stop.

Don't you agree?

They've got to stop.

Republicans got us out of the Democrat who had four times as many pensions.

That's them.

Four times as many pensions.

They got us in World War I.

They got us in World War II.

They got us into Korea.

You can take the last two, particularly.

They got us into Korea.

Eisenhower got us out.

They got us into Vietnam.

Texas got us out.

Now, what do you want with the next question?

And then there's the economics, but I just want to hope to Christ we're doing better there.

I would, I add something, which I think helps on the credibility, I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying that the democratic mentality is to smother, to intervene, to try and manage things, whether it's domestically or overseas, and the Nixon doctor and his domestic pro,

have a different philosophical base.

It's to create, develop capabilities on other people's parts, not just the ones that we get across, because they not only intervene in everything, try to manage everything,

but also they manage very unrealistically, superficially, and inefficiently.

I mean, they really have, they got the live view of the world.

I mean, you can, can you imagine, you know, Huber Humphries, he's a sweet guy, but Huber is just unrealistically, I don't know if he'll ever realize that, but he thinks, if I could just put my arms around him and say, you know, we talk about our children, they're all going to be great, and we aren't going to be great, that isn't true.

i'll put my arms around to see but the difference is you know it doesn't matter that's right it really is you know and i think it's true the rest of the message is saying well you know he isn't very hard-headed i mean well he's just very smart he's he's quite political he's not smart no doubt and uh

um

I believe men in public life have a responsibility to frankly look like they are worthy of the office.

I don't believe they should run around and make goddamn fools of themselves.

That's why I've always been horrified at congressmen and senators whenever I got drunk.

I don't mind.

If an individual's private life, that's fine.

If an individual is on his vacation by himself with two friends, that's fine.

I was pointing out the other day that I got an employee on my respect.

You know what that is.

In a very sensitive area, one of our problems with the egg was that he fragmented his fed out and with the Secret Service.

And as a result, the Secret Service agreed.

You know, they protect it too much.

You know, they're too rough people.

And it stabs.

It's the best way to give them advice.

But I told them all today, I said, you know, it's a curious thing.

that in all the years I've had Secret Service men out there, 11 years, I have never had a drink with a Secret Service man.

Oh, I wouldn't, and I've never, and I don't know why, but I've only had one or two, and I've traveled around the world, and they've been paired, but I've never had one.

I've never had one of the staffers, except Rose, the secretary, of course, and she's like a member of the band.

Because she's, you know, she comes in and this and that and the other thing.

But that's all.

We have nothing else.

I miss the fraternization.

I treat them all well.

I believe, as I'm sure you do, I believe doing nice things for them, treating them, you know, with great consideration, the rest.

But this has got to have some sort of, some sort of, well...

Particularly alcohol, I've got a taste of it.

It's the worst thing.

It is.

I think what happens is, and that's another thing I don't do, I drink from the press.

Now the reason I don't drink from the press is that I don't.

I don't.

It's a long experience.

I don't drink from the press.

What do you mean it's a visual?

Well, he has a great left arm, but he doesn't have a heel left arm, so he cannot hold it.

And I think, frankly, that's what may have gotten him in.

Excuse my language, but that's what got me in trouble.

That big, nice, present thing when he called in the press.

We're not in trouble.

He made me fail.

Remember, I got him in a situation where I was sad.

No, three months ago.

Remember?

Midnight, after midnight, he had a background.

Oh, yes, and he talked about his feelings about China, though, that night, didn't he?

Goddamn, it was about China.

Yes, it was.

And then, and then he had the other one.

It was on this last deal where he talked about the Negroes, you know.

And he can get bored of blacks.

Going out of the country and knocking America.

Most people out there know you knock America when you're here.

First of all, the point is...

In this study, I'm sure you'll be able to find this.

It's just the idea that you don't, you don't get a measure with the goddamn press.

I don't believe in it.

I just don't believe in it.

I know they like it.

They love to see me, and I saw my God, and I know that I'm considered to be very shit by these bastards, and I will continue to be.

I don't believe in letting them get too close to you.

You never want to get too close.

If they get too close, I will have been too much.

I can't do it.

your head does this now i think he does it i've figured it out he's tired they're tired they're all relaxed and james the vice president that was a nice reception now let's see what that

Politically, it doesn't help.

It hurts with the blacks.

And it doesn't help with the rednecks, because the rednecks don't think anything of the rednecks.

So the praise of black leaders in Africa is not for the rednecks.

We help them.

The same point is that coming up, coming back, and saying,

That black Americans aren't as good as black Americans.

Most of them, basically, are just out of the trees.

Now, let's face it, they are.

Look up Kenyatta.

That's where he is.

He's eating people.

That's right.

Now, I'm fighting.

When we say that, they say, well, by God, that's what I did.

But even if I say, well, I'm naked, it's different.

Right now, I'm dead naked.

That's what they call it.

I'm there.

I know.

It's like when I'm a black athlete.

I mean, in the Olympics, they're running against the other black.

I mean, the Southern may not like the black.

He's going to have to black out this year, right?

This year, well, not that.

I'm absolutely dead on this business.

And the problem with fools is, none of us is smart enough in the first place to dull yourself.

Which you do, as you say, you let down.

That's why I don't make the poor speeches, sir.

Of course, I don't make the poor speeches.

But here's the rough thing for me.

I'm here.

Let me talk a little about your situation, if you may.

thinking about harassing let me throw up another option that has occurred to me now uh you know we talked about oep

Let me say that the thing you've got to really think about, I mean, you've really got to think about your situation.

You want to run for office in Illinois, and as a matter of fact, you don't want to be in the Senate.

And now, I think, far better for that matter.

But do that as a thing.

I don't think it's helpful.

I told Bob this a moment ago about him.

I am concerned about Bob becoming too common in California.

He'll be in there.

I've always wondered if he was going to help us a year because he's got four years to go, three years to go.

In your case, he don't have much of a problem, do you?

No, I don't go back that much, and... You don't have the problem.

Still, I'm new, and some of them... That's right, that's right.

Well, maybe this isn't the problem.

The thing that would have occurred is that all of it is coming back.

As you know.

It's the...

It's the best ambassadorship because of ASMR, but frankly...

The other ambassadors have no substance with them.

The term has substance not because Russia's negotiating or whatever.

The Japanese may have.

May have, may have.

That is the range we're seeing.

The NATO then always has substance because it involves the whole alliance.

It involves also the, I don't know,

I don't know what the hell it would do for you in Illinois.

Maybe you're not a good thing in Illinois.

Maybe you need to listen to Iowa.

but uh but at least that's one thing that you could consider far other than a forward policy field rather than france germany or the only things worthwhile and uh really you know it requires the language we need a better pastor i mean he's a good pastor but maybe one of those politics

Uh, none of the others matter.

The Russians don't matter.

They ain't nobody talks to me about it.

Nobody talks to us.

And, you know, none of the world, in my view, is probably Japan.

Mm-hmm.

So, that's the foreign policy, you know, that I see.

Now, on the domestic front, what we talked about, apparently, was not going to materialize around these things.

seems determined to stay on uh the bully seems to certainly determine to stay on and turn anything to the contrary uh and on down the line they all seem to be uh rather happy with their they may not be happy but they certainly don't seem to be so unhappy that they want to leave at this moment

uh there just frankly isn't anything open now except the uh

Well, since we talked, it's not easy to think through.

I've wished from time to time that you weren't present so I could get your personal advice.

Well, I was present, but Dirk said, of course, die, and I didn't push for that.

A lot of my friends have been the only ones lying around with tattoos, and they kind of feel that was a mistake.

Maybe in retrospect it was, but it's not easy.

I'm obviously interested in this administration and you, and I'm proud to be a part of it.

I'm also, as you suggested, interested in Illinois politics.

The next two or three months, I don't know what Ogilvy will do.

I don't know what the prospects for Adelaide will be in 74, but some things are going to be happening in the immediate period.

Percy Ronson.

Yes.

He's just...

You see, all the Republicans does, all the Republicans does, they forget their opposition because we won't remind them of them and we won't allow them and then what bad Democrats want to ground is a hawk against them.

So, Percy, Brooke, and the others continue to say we applaud the president.

I'm sure Percy applauded the president.

Oh, sure.

To a large extent.

Yeah, everybody.

Right.

Everybody except Jemez.

Jemez left power.

But I feel that I do have a...

I don't know.

He's a weak guy.

I think he might be known for the plucky as you said before.

If we do get Illinois back on track.

Uh, but it's all going to be coming back.

He is coming back.

Good.

He told me he was.

I'm convinced he is.

I'm going to ask you.

I'm convinced he is.

I don't know, uh, I don't know what he'll finally do.

I presume he'll run, conceivably would.

but uh he's a good man yeah and i know that i know he's a good man but uh he's not flashy but

But I think that Illinois is particularly .

No, no, .

They want a good, solid job.

But I think long range in Illinois, having been a good suburban vote hitter, a good record in Congress, a good domestic experience, with the exception of a gap in foreign affairs, that I'd be able to tell, you know, I'm 39 last week, I'm Jack Benny's age, so.

You've got a long time.

That helps.

There's a thing a million and a half million young voters do on my own, which is amazing.

Really?

Yeah.

125.

But I've thought about these things, and I've had an interesting time in the last three and a half, four months.

I've made something like 110 appearances, speeches and shootings and briefings and television and

12 states, 10 countries, you know, have really been moving around.

The property review board work is interesting.

Arnie Weber, of course, is leading, but I think potentially, domestically, from the standpoint of conservatives as well as environmentalists, that's an interesting piece of work.

I've enjoyed that.

The drug thing, I've enjoyed, and I feel we've made some good headway on it.

You've done darn well there, and so have Bud Groves and those fellows.

Uh, politics, I've been working in politics with John Mitchell, uh, which is kind of consuming, and fascinating, and funny, and, uh, and, uh, I found that interesting.

I recognize that what I'm doing is useful to you, but it's not anything of direct responsibility to you, and it's not the benefit of any great disability.

Well, there are no problems in here continuing to do what you are in the S.A., the market.

That is valuable.

I mean, you can come out.

You're a good spokesman.

You can do a lot of things.

My only question I raise is whether or not, from your standpoint, whether or not you're wasting an asset, whether or not you should have a subsidy, a visibly subsidy responsibility so people can say, well, now what do I do?

How do you get involved?

Now, OEP doesn't do the foreign policy thing.

NATO would, and it would be, I think, depending on how you, what you and Henry, how you use that post.

I don't know if you use it for anything.

But, it would be, NATO would particularly use that post.

i would think the importance of the russians are going to increase in the next year and i think with the mutual balance with mbfr coming up mutual balance force reductions and they talk with the russians one way or another

Sure.

There's another thing that we'll show you on that, that NATO would be used, that you would be used, and the NATO Postal Commission would have to be used on the MDFR, and also maybe that would be the European Security Conference.

This might be the year, next year, when we do both.

so uh now one drawback from it is uh it would just break my heart not to be here for the campaign from august uh and uh i mean i uh i think that could be helpful in it what are the other possibilities well uh you know i've got two other thoughts uh one is the uh

Lopez Bravo made the comment that the U.S. and the United States of America are in far more serious trouble with Latin America than we even begin to understand.

Let me just come back to Australia.

And he said he was just dumbfounded by it and wanted me to emphasize to you in the end, which I've done.

It struck me that it's conceivable if I say to my present role, and I've talked to Henry about this possibility of doing some things for him, that might involve parts of the world that you and he are not spending as much time on, but which could become problems in one way or another.

if there is a little more attention paid to it.

Now,

That is a thought.

In other words, maybe just some special sciences or negotiations or some... Latin America.

Latin America and Africa and parts of Asia that are... even some of these European countries that are not... that are not on the agenda right now.

That's a thought.

And you can do it.

Well, I think we could do it.

Do it through a benchmark.

And we've talked about this before.

I think there's some new agrees.

The Undersecretary of State, my situation has changed.

Earl has been there a year.

It struck me that maybe it would be desirable for everything.

If, and I think Bill Rodgers can see what's going on, if you said to Bill, look, we've got a hell of a problem in trade, and we need a mayor of his stature in special treatment,

And I want to – and I want to do a favor for the Republican Party by giving our young cabinet members some very valuable experience in saying that we help the party 10, 20 years from now.

Now, Bill Rogers got that kind of experience.

He wouldn't be saying –

Roger, you wouldn't think that he'd run us down.

You'd be saying, Bill, I want to do something that conceivably would be helpful for the party down the road by giving to somebody at the age of 39 that kind of experience that will make him a valuable commodity for the party for two or three decades.

Um, if there's some validity to that, now I think a guy of early stature would be good as a special credit representative.

I, I hope.

I think he would, he would be such a step down.

Oh, I don't know.

Scott Curry is so much more important than what he's doing over there.

Um, I think that, that, hell, you take that Kansas City speech, that,

But that's a very different approach to Bill than the other.

And that's a possibility.

And I think this is true in both of them.

In other words, I think it's... And also, he's stronger today than he was then, Bill, personally.

In other words, you've done a great job of giving him the...

He knows he loves him.

You really have.

And I'm sure... And in fact, you're quite aware, I'm sure,

And we, this was a very difficult episode.

The title thing, I had to do it all.

I did it all yesterday.

But we brought Bill in for the first time.

We let him appear, but he, he knew.

We couldn't even tell him.

Like all the papers, we had to prepare entirely for him.

But you handle it, right?

Sure.

If he comes out of it strong, we're not easy.

Sure, hold it safe.

Our people are all handy.

Sure.

Urban, how about, uh... Well, he's been having fun, you know.

Go over there for a bit.

He says that he would like to upgrade the economics to, uh, the energy security of the United States again.

Can he do that administratively?

No.

Actually, he doesn't do it at all.

Several weeks ago, over there now, unbelievably, we have an enormously important upgrade to have because the fighting for American exports and so forth strengthens the economic advantages around the world.

It's very, very important.

I wonder what would fit that.

But in any event, as I see it, the three things are the NATO, the undersecretary of state, which I think is impossible, the way I've described it.

And third, the possibility of staying here and getting some specific things going with him.

Which... Maybe it's a specific negotiation or...

With that one caveat that I keep coming back to, and that's the desire to be here, you know, all the time.

Well, there's one thing, of course, that you can't do.

The one thing that allows you to be here, of course, is to stay where you are and stay in specific silence.

That's true.

If you could have handled it, you'd have to stay here to be much.

You couldn't, if it looked like we were playing politics with a terribly important position.

And if you could have stayed, you'd have to stay here to be much.

You had to stay, of course, to play with me, so that you wouldn't have to come later.

Uh, I don't know that I had, at that point, so you can't pay me until you're staying, but it's, uh, it's not your, it's not critical of me to try to pay you that way.

Well, I know I had a best point, but you had a very big one.

We just don't know what it is, but you've got to be sure you put everything in their mind, don't you?

Right.

That's the kind of things.

But I think the neighbor with the safe thing probably are the most desirable, and unless something can be worked out in the other area, it might make sense.

I don't know what kind of reaction it would be.

I feel I have a very good relationship with John.

Oh, I'm sure you have.

Let me know.

And me, it would be fun.

I mean, I'd love to get away from this country.

Well, you could do that if you're, you know, no problem.

They can all move.

They can all move, and it'd be a great experience to live out of the country for a period.

It's a great experience to live in Brussels, because it's the heart of it.

I mean, you could live in Paris, you know.

Well, that is the major reason that it's bad.

From a personal standpoint, one of those two things does a very valuable thing to me, and that's to the point that I don't have insufficient abundance.

You do not have a thing on the other hand, on the same thing.

You have a lot of experience in the economic, the new economic policy.

to build up that economic department and so forth.

See, we've got colleagues on a hard kick, and I've got to support him on it, to really start meeting as many times as we possibly can, and go through with the Japanese, the Europeans, everybody else, for our guys, and meeting up the economic people all over the world.

Rogers realizes now he's got to do that, and he wants to build up that economic vision.

But your experiments were perhaps not.

I was on the Joint Economic Committee.

I was in the investment banking business frequently.

I mean, I've got superficial credentials.

I don't feel strong in economics the way I do in some other areas, although I have considerably more background in it than the average government.

It's really more of a business.

The, uh, the river, uh, it's administrative and political, right?

Mm-hmm.

Are we going to support those who are not?

What are we going to do about attacking Jews?

Are we going to fight with the communists who are not fighting?

Mm-hmm.

Is it true that the state's attitude is always

Protect the other country.

We've got to get away from that.

We've got to shake up that syndrome.

Also, the state's attitude is to protect it.

Protect its bureaucracy.

That's why I'm not asking ambassadors that are for us.

They're the State Department's ambassadors, rather than the President's ambassadors.

I mean my ambassadors at the second level, particularly the D.C.A.

That's why I'd like her to...

Saturday, let's say, I really believe there's a job to be done there.

And I don't believe it's even started.

They're ready to make a foreign policy.

That number two spot, Earl's job, is getting that place straightened out.

He's been there four months, and my guess is he's from France at that point.

go into an administrative job in the state where he can do an equally important job.

And...

He won.

I don't know.

Sculls talked him into it.

Yeah, he sure did.

I don't know.

It just surprised me.

I don't think it's bad.

He'll do a good job.

Oh, yeah.

No question about that.

Yeah, it really does.

Oh, just feel like it does.

The fudge factory is a perfect distraction.

It's just kind of gluey, you know.

There's nothing sharper than... You could use all of them in Flanagan over there.

They've got sharp edges, you know, in a way that would be great over there.

Flanagan would be...

because they know the flesh factor.

Sure.

I think there's a spirit all through the outfit.

Yeah.

One drawback of the NATO thing is the fact that when Ellsworth went over, it looked like he was being dumped.

Yeah.

And he would have to be done in a way that looked like it was pretty politically bad if I went to NATO.

And it looked like, it was handled in a way that it looked like you were just being, you know, kicked upstairs.

I don't think it would look that way now.

I haven't.

If you and I sat in the same place, well, and me as well, and you as well, of course you're not right.

But it just comes up, and it's, everybody's talking about it, and everybody's looking at that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, and it's all about, well, everybody knows that.

And that's going to be the subject of major concern, and we've got to work on it.

So I think that we can't put an end to it.

That's why we can't put an end to it.

Now that, as I say, has a great deal to be...

But, uh...

but rogers is not going to follow up until now when he's looking at me he's looking for planning i'm excited he hasn't been one who has really been looking maybe because he didn't feel strong self-assured so who looked very strong number two i mean i thought who really knew ed kingston

Do a job he hasn't had time to do.

Exactly.

Get him to go out.

I would guess Bill does feel stronger, and I would guess also that... Well, he knows he's got a hell of a lot of people there as we go through the campaign, and before the rest of them aren't there.

That's right.

And it's just the truth.

You know it.

Now they're leaving the whole place.

We're scared to death right now.

Correct.

And people understand that.

Well, how do you think he would react to the statement that it would be good to get someone like Rossell that kind of experience?

Now, he might react very well, but that's what I want to find out.

He just wouldn't benefit from the views we believe in for the world.

Now, 20 years, he'll be around.

Let's see what I can do.

I have a personal request.

i don't know

I believe you both are responsible for that rather than Dan.

Probably the biggest thing that's going to happen out there, and I think it's good to go.

I know you don't like to do things.

Ron James, this young black guy, apparently he was a lawyer and a football player on my staff.

He's on your White House staff now.

Roald Molina.

Oh, yeah.

And he's tough and bright and good.

and he works over the white house

I watched this guy, Jepson, the lieutenant governor out in Iowa.

He's a snake.

He's running against Bob Ray, the governor.

They're both Republicans.

And I hope Ray turns into a dog fight in the park.

I guess his Ray is clever and devious and will try to use Ray.

I mean, Jepson, the lieutenant governor is.

And, uh...

He almost didn't get the chairmanship of the National Lieutenant Governor's Conference because lieutenant governors are so mad the way he's treated Ray.

Why the hell does he do that?

Well, he just goes with the flow.

He just keeps his mouth open.

You know?

His device isn't harmful to the party.

So I just thought I'd alert you again.

He's not our best friend, I don't think.

Uh...

Well, I, uh, I remember when we started off there, I really didn't feel the time.

I don't have a lot of ideas, but I feel like we're going through the Midwest, and it's hard not to feel it here.

I'll talk to Roberts.

I'll have a chance.

I don't know.

If you reflect on one of those three, maybe you'll have a thought as to which way is more, which is more desirable from your standpoint or from... Yeah.

I mean...

It could be.

I don't know.

I don't know what Henry's reaction to the third would be.

Good.

Thank you.

All right.