Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 543-008
Date: Thursday, July 22, 1971 at 6:25 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.; [Unknown person(s)]
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/543-008

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] I talked to Tony about the, uh, Kennedy as ambassador to Japan, and, uh, he said he would be affirmative in every way on it.
[0:15] He said the only recommendation he would have is that he would have to say, I don't really feel that I know him well, and I can't tell you, I can't evaluate how tough he is or how smart he is.
[0:22] But I have to assume that he's both because of his past performance and all that.
[0:28] So the key thing is he's loyal as hell.
[0:34] He'll do what he's told.
[0:36] And he will not hold to the State Department, etc.
[0:39] That answers, for me, all the questions you need in an administration plan.
[0:45] He said, I understand your desire to appoint a businessman there and all that.
[0:47] But he said, I wouldn't be very scared of those damn businessmen.
[0:51] You have the real nature, when they get in touch, that they will succumb to the fawning of the State Department types who know how to go to work on a guy like that, stuck around him, and very soon they've got him trapped.
[1:04] And you never know which ones will do it.
[1:05] They can be a very big man, very tough and all that, and all of a sudden they get caught.
[1:09] Kennedy, you know, won't do that.
[1:10] He sees through the State Department.
[1:14] So he was...
[1:16] He was...
[1:17] Very favorable.
[1:19] And everybody here, all the votes come down in favor of Kennedy.
[1:38] Did you talk to Kissinger about it?
[1:39] I'll ask him.
[1:40] You talked to Kissinger about it.
[1:40] He was in here before.
[1:41] He said yes.
[1:41] Then you told me the second time.
[1:42] Maybe I'm wrong.
[1:42] I think you're right.
[1:42] You asked about the Eisenhower dollars.
[1:43] There is a $3 rate.
[1:46] cost you yeah i don't know why the hell and there's also a ten dollar version which is an untouched by human hand type version that comes in a presentation if you want it but it's a three dollar gift in that form and it's a ten dollar gift in the box but actually if we put this in the box can we get this made in the box i mean it looks like more
[2:21] Well, not for a dollar.
[2:27] You have to pay three bucks.
[2:30] I don't understand that.
[2:31] The Treasury sells a one dollar piece for three dollars.
[2:35] The silver version, perhaps.
[2:39] This doesn't even feel like it's silver.
[2:40] I don't know if I can smell it.
[2:44] I don't know what it is, but anyway, we've got some of these if you want them, but I don't know.
[2:55] Maybe it's not a good idea.
[2:56] I think maybe it's a... No, I think you're right.
[2:57] I think you ought to give presidential things.
[2:58] I just don't think...
[3:10] I don't know how to think this.
[3:11] But you saw something back.
[3:11] I'm just going to put my name.
[3:12] I have a Gallo name.
[3:14] What is the first piece of conception and execution?
[3:35] My warmest congratulation, then again on conception and completion of life.
[3:41] Since I was vehement in criticizing the President on Cambodia, I owe you equal vehemence in praising the President on the trip, and it superbly handled aftermath.
[3:53] The President's timing and terseness was masterful.
[3:58] Now, if the substantive outgrows are as useful as they promised to be,
[4:05] My substantive concerns of last summer and that of my colleagues will have disappeared as well.
[4:12] Then you can serve Crow and we will all eat it gratefully.
[4:17] Meanwhile, our fingers are crossed and I wish you and your boss the best.
[4:23] This is the man who, the chairman of that Harvard group that came down here to tell me that if I
[4:31] didn't leave and that they were cutting off from the president and they were going to work on the country.
[4:42] Oh, that's the main thing.
[4:48] It's one letter after another.
[4:49] I got one today from your friend Franklin Murphy.
[4:50] He's just back from two weeks in Japan.
[4:53] Yeah.
[4:53] So did I.
[4:53] And he's just...
[4:58] This is the most remarkable achievement in my lifetime.
[5:03] It's Frank Mercer.
[5:04] George Franklin from the Council on Foreign Relations.
[5:06] I feel that the change in our relationship to China could be the most important thing in our foreign relations in a decade.
[5:18] You've got basically an enormous reaction from the leader class.
[5:25] They eventually are, well, they'll build it up, but they'll affect the attitude.
[5:29] which we haven't been having, I'm concerned, are going to support some folks.
[5:37] Now we're going to get some from leaders.
[5:38] Holy Cross Fathers, greetings and 10,000 thanks to you and President Nixon for his efforts to achieve fellowship and peaceful negotiation.
[5:45] I have prayed at Holy Mass and on and on.
[5:48] May these efforts and President Nixon's discussions bear much fruit for world fellowship and mutual help.
[5:57] I've got about 15 minutes.
[5:58] Put out some good stuff.
[5:58] Who?
[6:00] The Vatican.
[6:03] Oh, it's just, as you said, it's the leader class.
[6:06] This fellow is head of the Kennedy Center at Harvard.
[6:11] The brain trust for Bobby Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy.
[6:15] What's his name?
[6:16] Richard Newsom.
[6:17] He wrote this book on presidential power.
[6:21] And, you know, they'll be talking around, and they can't take it back.
[6:27] And he talks about leadership, I guess.
[6:29] Oh, yeah.
[6:31] The president's timing and truthness were masterful.
[6:36] And truthness?
[6:36] Yeah.
[6:37] That's who said it?
[6:38] Yeah.
[6:38] What is it, timing and what?
[6:40] Truthness.
[6:43] Well, that's good.
[6:44] Boy, that was a master stroke to give us.
[6:49] Tell the fellow who, I forget who it was.
[6:54] Somebody said to me yesterday, Frank, the world is no longer what it was at 1025 on Thursday evening.
[7:07] Good.
[7:07] No, 384 words, essentially.
[7:14] You forgot to mention that post, the announcement to the text to your 8620.
[7:23] The whole mood is different.
[7:27] Yes, that's right.
[7:27] Who gives a damn now about Madam Finn's seven points?
[7:30] Anyone who wanted to start a riot on that, we haven't answered them.
[7:34] We've ignored them.
[7:39] Okay.
[7:41] Okay.
[7:42] I will.
[7:42] I will get back to Nelson.
[7:43] Okay, I'll just work him over.
[7:46] No, I'll work him up better now.
[7:47] It's always good.
[7:59] I'll make my point.
[8:01] Good, Mr. President.
[8:02] Well, I have a report now.
[8:03] Good-bye.
[8:05] Or if you can't go home early, let me know.
[8:08] We have a hospital in 510 Stewart here.
[8:09] All right.
[8:09] I might be able to... Well, getting back to...
[8:11] I will think...
[8:11] I think, Chief, when I was told we've got a 54...
[8:17] No, it can't be useful worldwide.
[8:26] It doesn't make that much difference.
[8:27] They're making the point that they took it Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and it was too early to measure the effect of the China thing.
[8:37] That's what they said.
[8:38] They were surprised that it had moved, and they said they thought, sure, it would go out now.
[8:45] I'm not so sure that's right because ours would indicate that it might not be.
[8:58] Ours is at 54.
[9:03] We don't know.
[9:04] Ours has been at 48.
[9:04] We've been at 54 for three months running now.
[9:05] Well, on the other hand, too, we don't know exactly where we were right after the papers.
[9:07] It might have been just a bit lower.
[9:09] My guess is it could have been, you know.
[9:11] so much that the very right hand of the Supreme Court decision was quite a barrage.
[9:27] You know, that has some depressing effect.
[9:31] And then we came out.
[9:31] But we're not going to give you much of a word.
[9:32] But it's hard to figure.
[9:33] You can't tell about those.
[9:34] You just don't know.
[9:35] There's certainly a hell of a change in attitudes.
[9:36] I mean, we don't.
[9:37] We go around and we see, oh, yeah, everybody got piracy.
[9:38] And the people of the whole community goes out.
[9:40] We don't mean people with this difference.
[9:43] What is this negative?
[9:45] Does he have the same negative as before?
[9:49] Forty-nine.
[9:54] Wow.
[9:54] Thirty-eight.
[9:55] Seventy-nine.
[9:55] Unless they always turn it blank, don't they?
[9:59] Would you bring me in the, uh, poll report and the poll book and the Gallup poll?
[10:05] You know, that I don't know.
[10:20] The reason to give him a 54th, and we pulled midweek, and Gallup was up to 54th.
[10:34] Yeah.
[10:34] And our last time was 48th also.
[10:34] Yeah, we just completed on using 54th.
[10:39] I mean, to be seated, it's below to this.
[10:42] We'll see what Harris does, too.
[10:43] Harris will probably be able to deliver to Jimmy his own sign.
[10:45] I think it is up some.
[10:53] I have a feeling that there's, I don't know, I can't, I don't see how it cannot be.
[11:00] I don't believe, I don't believe.
[11:02] Well, we have too many personal polls that indicate if it is.
[11:05] Now, it may be, will we lose some?
[11:06] You never know.
[11:06] You know, you may lose some hardliners.
[11:08] That's the other part.
[11:09] You may have a, you may have a box here.
[11:10] Yeah.
[11:11] That's right, because the people, even though there's a strong, very strong, very approved of the China thing, the people who disapproved could be people who were pro-Nixon before.
[11:25] That's right.
[11:27] But now disapproved.
[11:28] In other words, the mix made a change.
[11:29] On the other hand, a lot of people who approved of the China thing, you know, were anti-Nixon before.
[11:34] Yeah.
[11:35] And you would think some of them would move over.
[11:37] You would think that would counterbalance it.
[11:38] Yeah.
[11:38] Well, it might just balance out.
[11:40] Now I...
[11:42] I think it's still, we don't have that much opposition, but there's that much.
[11:59] Well, if you look at your figures with regard to people, the balance of that total of ours is extremely encouraging.
[12:02] You know, our own, everything, everything on it.
[12:03] Good God, we need, who's the best man to go deal with?
[12:04] Who did this?
[12:05] This is a good idea, and so forth.
[12:10] No, everything, everything.
[12:14] Yeah, they were out Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
[12:22] 4938, they come out.
[12:27] Oops.
[12:28] Shane, we'll return to your call.
[12:32] All right.
[12:36] For example, it's not complete yet.
[12:37] The figure could change on the approval side at one point either way.
[12:42] Approval side.
[12:48] How does the approval side change without the disapproval side changing?
[12:59] Yeah, by the undecided.
[13:00] They were 48-39 before.
[13:03] Yeah, well, there's no change then.
[13:04] Okay.
[13:04] There's no change on ours either.
[13:05] Well, one thing for sure, we're not going down anywhere.
[13:07] We're just really hanging in there at the same...
[13:09] I think we've got to find this one.
[13:17] We've got the breakdowns by, you know, all the categories.
[13:41] The awareness thing is interesting, the way that 85% of the public are aware.
[13:47] It's 90% of the men and 81% of the women, so you have a higher male awareness.
[13:52] And it goes up with age, 89% of the old folks and only 76% of the 18 to 20 year olds.
[13:59] 96% of those who've been to college and in college.
[14:04] 93% of the people with over 15,000 income.
[14:07] That's just the worst.
[14:10] The very big role is higher among men than among women.
[14:16] Higher among older people.
[14:18] Goes up with age.
[14:22] Goes up with education.
[14:29] Goes up with income.
[14:33] No difference between Republicans or Democrats or Independents.
[14:39] Independents are the highest.
[14:45] Independents are 89, Republicans are 85, and Democrats are 83.
[14:48] That's something.
[14:50] Regional, I think.
[14:51] Regional and regional.
[14:51] Yeah.
[14:51] No difference, really, except a little higher in the West.
[14:54] East is 85, Midwest 85, South... No warrants for approval.
[14:56] Approval.
[14:58] This is very favorable.
[14:59] Yeah.
[15:04] Or is it the highest?
[15:14] I'm reading the wrong numbers, I'm sorry.
[15:18] That was awareness.
[15:19] It's all in the same category.
[15:22] The approval is also much higher among men.
[15:27] A little higher among old folks, but not much difference in age.
[15:30] A lot higher in college students.
[15:33] The very favorable reaction was 28 overall, because in the east it was 30, midwest 31, south 24, west 29.
[15:50] South would be lower, a little low in the south because of the hogs, not the same anywhere else.
[15:56] The very favorable was damn high on this though, isn't it?
[15:59] Yeah, highest it's ever been.
[16:02] Since November 3rd.
[16:07] When you combine very favorable and somewhat favorable, it's 58 overall.
[16:13] The east is 62, the midwest 61, south 53, west 60.
[16:19] So it's really the same everywhere except the south where it's low.
[16:24] I thought that you had done the very favorable, somewhat favorable concern.
[16:30] Or was it fifty-five?
[16:40] Fifty-eight.
[16:40] That's, I'm sorry, these have got to be re-calculated.
[16:43] That's of the eighty-five.
[16:44] Yeah.
[16:47] Which would be sixty-eight of the total, of the sixty-eight of the people asked the question.
[16:50] Well, I think that might be what it says.
[16:51] It may be, Bob, that we have more here of things that's not going to have a party-like reaction.
[16:54] Could be.
[16:58] Here it is.
[16:59] The 68L.
[17:02] South of the east of 73.
[17:06] Midwest 71.
[17:09] South 63.
[17:13] West 68.
[17:13] South is lower.
[17:18] More hawkish.
[17:30] Would that be your guess?
[18:00] I don't consider this a human condition.
[18:19] People would change some, which is not a question of God.
[18:20] Also, as people go out in the country, there are going to be people talking to each other more and more.
[18:24] I went to Cape Verde, and I went to Cape Verde, and I went to Cape Verde, and I went to Cape Verde, and I went to Cape Verde, and I went to Cape Verde,
[18:29] Well, they all ran as fast as they could on the rudder, because they run at the same time.
[18:35] We'll see if it's not... We'll have to be back at the same time.
[18:46] Okay, we'll see.
[18:47] First meeting at 9.30 on snuggle.
[18:55] There are only going to be two.
[18:57] The bomb is not ready to do its national security fire.
[19:00] So the first one is at 10.
[19:01] Good.
[19:01] One at 10 and one at 3.
[19:01] And there will be another one Saturday.