Conversation 558-003

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We're stopping a little, Tom.

We're starting to get ready.

We spent a minute on that leak to see that's standing there crucially, you know.

I tracked down the other one, and I was right.

What he had was, about ten days ago, he had the contents of the Kissinger memorandum to you on your show online.

Remember?

That's the thing you were cranked up about before.

Now, that doesn't count.

That doesn't.

John, just this one.

It must be the Kissinger show that to...

The Kissinger show to Peterson.

It's all I know.

I can't imagine.

He hasn't shown anybody.

Roberts.

You see, this year had cleaned up.

I know.

I didn't get to say anything.

Well, I didn't.

That's right.

I didn't.

Hey.

I don't know how the hell he...

Where did this come from?

Paul Scott had an argument.

He had an argument, which is very disturbing.

We're considering closing the goal.

Well, that, of course, is John Cotton's system.

Crank and close the door with it.

I mean, it can have a goddamn run, and then we don't have to make it.

We can move it away or two.

You scare some of the police out of this, and it lays out a whole contingency plan for you there, and so forth.

The course of the trade, they didn't really handle it by saying, look, we've got lots of time, but we do not see any necessity for operation.

He's going to make it back the way Connolly should handle it, I'm sure he's thought of that way as well.

For a long time the agency plan has occurred.

And the point is that this has had to come from somebody who is aware of what the book is on this.

There is an agency plan about closing gold.

But also this company, did you ever find out how the history then got up?

Did you ever find out?

No.

I'm trying to find out whether they found anything out on it.

Well, first it would go to hand.

And you ask Henry, now Henry, to whom did you show this memo?

Well, that's kind of done.

No, it was Henry who was the one that started on the first one.

You understand.

Let me tell you why.

I know it has to be somebody Henry showed it to.

I didn't do it.

I just don't know.

What was the Kissinger leak?

The Kissinger leak was of his conversation to online.

My God.

Thank God it was not picked up by anybody else.

Scott is considered to be quite bad.

My God.

Well, I know.

Actually, what it is, is a two-fault sanitized version, which had two columns.

It had the one that's on the old paper, and the one that's on the paper, where I said, now Henry, give us that.

It was a building.

We gave them an egg to look at.

We let Colin look at it.

You're supposed to look at it.

And that's all.

But you know, so that people know.

But I told Mr. Johnson, I said, another reason for this.

I'm trying to keep.

Henry talks a lot about security, but sometimes when he gets to something like this, he talks too much about it.

So on this Goldwindow thing, at least to my knowledge, you haven't had a document that you put down, like I said.

No document.

I've never seen it that I know.

I mean, I've never seen it.

I haven't.

What, Connie?

I didn't know it was accurate.

But that's something Bob would say when he's staffing out over in the treasury.

That's right.

There is a treasury staff.

So it's also got to be this... Peterson has this thing.

He had the book, remember?

Yeah, Tommy said he had the black book.

Peterson insisted on it.

He kept the book at home to study over a weekend.

Now, does...

I mean...

Do we know?

Can't you find out who talks to Paul Scott?

Can't we do that?

It's terribly embarrassing.

It's a strange thing, because Scott hasn't been, at least to my knowledge, hasn't been a leaked source until recently.

That would put it on fears, too.

If Scott is a Chicago columnist, he is.

Would you like to call me a doctor, please?

Come on.

This thing is just incredible.

This is the Paul Scott bomb.

And it says, Joe Pompey, this year, and this year, during the speaking of Kissinger Memorandum to the President, highlighted Joe's suggestion in reporting the wreckage of the bomb.

And it's got all the details of the bomb.

It's got a direct quotation in quotes.

What my government wants at this time is a public sign that the U.S. is going to begin facing others in the world.

Who is checking that?

Who you got in the evening, or who?

None of that.

Crowe?

No.

This one?

Henry's office was checked.

Oh, Christ.

Well, because they were the only ones that had access to it.

Well, I really want to check now on this.

We've got a line that's leading to Scotland.

You've got to do it, John.

This is a terrible thing.

Scott is not unfriendly.

I don't mean that.

But you can't leave that kind of material.

That's devastating, too.

That is devastating as hell.

That, John, is just unbelievable.

It's got all the facts.

It's right.

That's what Connolly said to the drummer this time.

He said, it happens to be correct.

I'll tell you, it really burns my ass.

There is a confidential Treasury Department study.

There is.

Mr. President, the girl who incidentally kissed you is throwing up.

I'm a little confused.

Do you want Henry to come in here?

Yeah, I think I'm going to come in second.

I want you to drop out of the meeting in two minutes and come up here.

Bye then.

This is Darren Cho, also being further talked to.

This is true.

We've got the next trip to be carried out at P. King's New Embassy in Ottawa by point one.

Sometimes they put things like that in that are not true.

A good, clever reporter in order to cover the source.

Is that a false cut?

It's hard to find a common thread between those two.

If there is one, I'm not sure.

There's just a few people who knew about this.

There's more people than I thought.

It's about to go, you know, if it's in.

I'll tell you, he's got a hand in the ball game now.

He's mad about it.

Not mad, but just sort of forced to do something earlier.

I'll tell you, he said, I could have been crazy for this.

I said, would you scare him to death over there?

He says, I think I have.

And I think he has to.

But I think he's right.

I mean, the Council of Economic Advisors, you know, they go over, they got a big staff.

They go over and they talk to those kids.

So they go out.

Yeah.

Now, there may be a clue here.

McCracken has just called and asked urgently if he could see you for a few minutes this afternoon, which is, he very rarely does.

He puts a request that way.

He may have something on him, too.

All right.

I see.

And he knows he's got B&Q tomorrow.

For sure.

Show him some.

Yeah.

Henry, I want to spend a minute on something here.

This Paul Scott leak on Joe Biden.

Did you make any check to find out who might know about it?

Well, I put it in the office today, yeah.

We're because we have another leak.

Unfortunate.

But that isn't true.

This has been my memo.

Somebody knows something.

It's a parcel of your truth.

So there are two that are going to leak such a damn thing.

McCracken.

McCracken did a discussion with him this year.

Just trying to think of anybody to see who could have... Because it could be a common thread.

It could be the same thing.

It is close.

There's no question about it.

The quote's not correct.

Well, that's easy, though.

Somebody wouldn't actually show the memo, but they might get out from recollection just given the wrong quotes.

I think there's another one there where somebody put this.

Scott got some information from somebody.

Oh, he's asking how he got this fucking shit.

Well, some of it is planned wrong.

Yeah.

I mean, for someone like me, they ought to get off and get it out.

Well, okay.

That's all I want to know, whether I can go back.

I just want to know whether or not we're trying to find out.

Peterson, you're sure we did not discuss the memorandum with him?

I'm pretty sure.

But I'm sure that I didn't go to any

Detail like this.

Peterson could not have been the source of this article.

Okay.

McCracken, he had been the source of this article.

No, no, no.

It was more Schultz.

It was more, you know, a little more, but still not in that much detail.

It was Schultz's senior memorandum.

He was the president of the church.

The guy almost just had to have seen the email.

He remembered it arrived and took it out.

Well, except that some of it is in the memorandum.

Some of it, Henry, do you have the, do you have the MSC, does anybody in the MSC have the gold window of business, you know, Connolly's idea of imposing the gold window now?

Are you sure that Peterson hasn't sent that in to you, or that you don't have it in the treasury?

I've heard you don't have it from Chester.

I've checked.

I have not seen it.

It has not come to me.

Yeah, I know you can see it might be in your system someplace over there.

You're an economic guy.

That's what I want to check.

I have to check with Mr. Christensen.

It's not good.

That's why we don't buy it anymore.

I just want you to just check the damn thing out.

Our purpose is to have the enemy here.

It's not to punish anybody on this one, actually.

It's just to be cautious.

I don't mind anyone.

I don't mind anybody else.

The point on the gold is that they see a cause around gold, which would be devastating, and it's so goddamn soon that the fellas have to be fired.

That's all there is to it.

You know, it's what it is now.

It's just unbelievable.

I tell you, if you can't operate in the economic field, your actions are going to be...

There are only three people that know about it.

I have Schultz, and the other is Cox, and the other is me.

We're keeping Peterson out, so all Peterson and McCracken are on the fringe.

I don't think your staff did it.

My point is, I'm just wondering.

What I'm trying to see is where the thread would lead.

Some of business address them.

On this content could it come from state, not based on my conversations, but on what they had told us it was of.

I see.

In removing the fleet.

That's one way you can track that, which I thought you were doing was analyzing the errors.

If you, for example, chose to not make any demands that we would support beatings membership in the United Nations and the UN Security Council, that isn't true.

I told him what our plan was, but he...

Said he'd oppose it, and he never asked me for it.

I never said that it required congressional approval to move away naval forces, and the reply he gave was incorrect.

On the other hand, just facing out of the military, no, that he didn't say.

But on the other hand, you also said that they said that it was, or... Yeah, yeah.

Well, I should forget it.

There may not be a common thread, but I've got to get after this gutting on this thing.

This thing, we know damn well, has come right on us.

Either Treasury, or the Council of Economic Advisers, or the FISA.

There ain't nobody else who knows for sure.

Well, when asked about China's cultural revolution, it's so reported that it's continuing like a revolution in your country.

It's totally wrong.

Would you, for the visits of that extra boat, would you...

I want you to ask George for an answer.

Who is it?

Maybe George doesn't have it.

He knows better than to talk to the president.

I don't know if it's in the journal.

It's Scott's syndicated.

Yeah, yes, Scott.

Isn't that that scholar who worked for him?

Yeah, that's him.

Thank you very much.

Forget it.

It's such a small thing.

We could add it.

Well, of course, Harlem and I also know about this, because we were there when Connolly was just...

I know.

What else do we know about that?

And I've wondered about these.

That's right.

No question about it.

Uh...

Have you got any large news stories for us this week?

We've got to place the bullet on this Kent State thing, and announce that we're not going to have the grand jury.

We've delayed it until school was over, until Congress was out, so that we could do it with the least possible effort.

Oh, I see.

Well, I see you want to cover it.

There's one possibility, if that's what it is.

The other possibility would be for you to put it out that day after I have my conference.

Is that what you mean?

Yes, I just wanted something so it's not the front page story, because, you know, there's all sorts of clamor from the Hill and from citizens' groups and the Scranton Commission.

Let me put it this way.

Let me put it this way, John.

I mean, first I'll go on with my questioning.

If I do, I will do it at three o'clock.

And then over to the Justice Department, she put it out, if they ask me about it at 3 o'clock, and I'll just say, yes, the Justice Department has sent me a statement.

If they don't ask me, I'll just say nothing.

How would that sound to you?

I think that's fine.

Because you might as well do that.

Because I haven't got any news to make, but what I say is likely to make as much news as anything else.

In other words, the fact that I volunteer will indicate I don't think it's going to be a lot of news.

If they do ask me, I'll just say yes.

You have to do that.

Can't you just understand that the Justice Department is going to be covering that in the near future?

Right.

You don't have to know what day you're going to have someone.

Right.

It's in the near future, and it's that actor who's involved.

It's awfully hard to...

It may be better if I was right, but you'd be disassociated with a determination as to whether or not to call a grand jury.

You say yes, I understand you're going to do it, then it's going to be the president who announces no grand jury.

Well, wouldn't it be well to have this come after my president?

I could simply say that it should come the next day, and it'll be a story, but it comes for Saturday papers.

Why don't you put it out on Saturday?

Put it out Friday for the Saturday paper.

Yeah.

I'm going to ask you about it anyway.

They haven't so far.

If they do, I don't know.

I understand the justice department is trying to make a decision on this show.

Well, if there's no story breaking this week to cover this, I think we should put it out on late Friday for the Saturday paper.

Don't put it out before Thursday.

Do the fact that it does come out before Thursday, then they're asking about it.

And I heard her hand you just put it out.

They don't ask everybody to put it out before a proctor or something.

Yeah.

Put it in the same story or put it out in justice.

Yeah.

Just get overridden by the president.

Well, that's what I was looking for.

Fine, fine.

But if they do ask for a proctor, then I'll say it's a good thing to say that it's coming down.

Ok, can somebody...

Your emergency employment funds.

Somebody told me that you put out a directive that all the 20% of the discretionary grants should be spent in California.

Most of them.

Because not all of them.

No.

We actually said we're in the key states.

But most in California do to the fact that 90% of the FTA, when you get to the tunnel unemployment areas, you put 20% of all of it, that would be by letting the little congressmen

Somebody's got political considerations in mind.

Aerospace and so forth.

Well, the story I got was a mandate that all 20% of it go in, and of course you have just holy hell from Illinois and all the rest of it.

I got to put most of it there, I'm sure you know, because that's where you've got the heaviest, the heaviest instance of unaccounting.

You had it a lot in terms of the... Don't put too much into Washington.

As long as somebody's got control of it.

As long as they don't waste it, put it in the right place.

The main thing about there is to follow up early in some cases, and to follow up to be sure of what we've done today, and he is our go-on, and we do our best to follow up.

George is making a 3D portion from Taiwan.

Don't doubt that, buddy.

He's not gonna stop now.

It's $80,000 a year plus $20,000 in expenses.

Another political subject, Mr. President, that I hope you're going to have a memorandum coming in here on textiles.

And I hope that you will read the short one-page memorandum that I've written on the subject matter.

Because this is screwed up at the State Department, and this one and that one and the next one, and I...

And I feel more strongly about the potential of you being impotent in connection with this now than I do of the political mass nation.

Although they're all opting on the other side of the fence.

They're all saying this is going to hurt Japan and this is going to hurt your trip to China and all the rest of it.

I think it's just the other way around.

These little Orientals can sit over there and defy you for two years on this subject matter.

Särskilt etter de letterer og kommunikasjoner som Kennedy tog om.

De kan ta og sitte på deres hår, og jeg er sikker på at PRC-mennene vet hva som sker.

Det ser ut som om du er impotent til å behandle Sydkorea, Taiwan og Hongkong.

Hvilken sida er det?

Jeg vet hvor sida Stetson er, men hvilken sida er det?

Jeg tror han er på siden av doing the right thing.

Well, I shouldn't put it that way.

There are always...

He's been pulled and hauled.

He's been pulled and hauled, and also there are potential complications in connection with it, but I think that this is such a big fight.

Furthermore, after reading all the cables and everything else, I'm absolutely convinced that the Japs know that this subject matter has to be handled, it's got to be resolved, and that they don't want to take the initiative on it, but they'd like to have it imposed upon them and get it off the way.

No, we have let National Security Council close.

There's a legal opinion that everybody agrees on.

Well, what the hell, why aren't they going to impose it then, are they?

Well, because I thought you couldn't do that unless all the other nations agreed.

No, that was another part of the trade bill, where if you got this trade, you compose it on one nation.

You compose it on anybody you want after findings, and of course you've got them in the textile field.

You know, the industry is the largest employer in the country, and it's in economic straits and so forth.

Well, this is all in your memorandum, but it's perfectly legal to do so.

Sure, I'll look at it.

I'll take a hard look, don't worry.

Sure, I will, but that's what should be done.

We just can't get to be a second or third class economic power by giving them all the cards to play with.

As you have said time and time again.

Yes, all that.

Has it been arranged for Gurney to come in and see the president and present that picture?

He presented it?

Did he?

Last week?

Wasn't Gurney in the Congress on that fire last week?

He was on the list.

No, he wasn't.

He's been on the list.

He was invited by the senators for an eye-opening event.

Why doesn't the pictures he's on the list come out this summer?

I don't know, that is the point.

The point is that there are stories all over the Florida newspapers that he's at odds with the White House, and the staff is putting out the stories and confirming them, if you've seen any of that.

Yeah.

I think we've got to straighten him out because...

You've got to hold that part of the situation to go.

What is your problem?

The White House has two government parties, one to Ohio and one to South Point instead of Florida.

Well, that is true.

That's tough.

Well, it's the quoting of the White House aides that you've noted.

Yeah.

The aides to the president said whoever was in disfavor and would remain there until the chief executive was reassured that the law had been given to Christ.

Who the hell would put out such a bad thing as that?

That somebody had it?

Especially the Miami Aide.

Yeah.

Well, I'll get it then.

I'm going to do the thing.

He was surprised a little bit.

I can't.

Because this Clark thing seems to be coming along pretty good.

Get it in as soon as he can.

And that we just aren't going to have that sort of thing.

He was pressed with something.

I can't appreciate it.

What the hell was that?

Bill's name.

He was hit with some Bill's name on this thing.

On the Teamsters, we have got Mr. Fitzsimmons, where he is now the Teamster president, which worked just the way it should have been.

Vis-a-vis Mr. Hoffa, we got Mr. Hoffa out of the business.

We're having a little trouble with the Teamsters in our transportation.

deregulation act, but I think we could pull back on that.

I'm having Peter Flanagan meet with Fitzsimmons to explain it to him next week, and then I will meet Fitzsimmons after that.

I think we may get down to a question as to whether or not if the parole board doesn't act on Hoppe's parole, as to whether or not when

and on what conditions we should give Hoppe part for Teamsters support.

I'm not sure that that's necessary, but it may be.

We all know that Hoppe probably controls more of the rank and file of the Teamsters than Fitzsimmons does now.

The question is, do we want to leave Hoppe where he is and go with what Fitzsimmons can deliver?

Or do we want to talk about down the line, sometimes, whatever conditions, circumstances?

We might want to come up with a pardon.

Or do you want me to indict him again?

Well, that's the only time.

The majority of them are Democrats, and I'm afraid that they're not going to get any parole.

I don't know.

I think we've got it pretty well postured where they may, if I had to guess, I guess they would.

Because he is now going to be president.

That's correct.

They're questioning about his salary and so forth, but I think we've got that postured.

And what I want to do is to...

I want to talk to Fitzsimmons and get all the benefits out of it before the parole board acts.

In other words, if we can tell Fitzsimmons that this is the game plan and Jimmy Heston should know about it and come out and support us, we're the backup in case anything happens to the parole board.

We'll be getting the credits of the parole board.

Of course, we'll take the credit if the parole board does it, but they know damn well that we can't control them.

Now, there's of course a lot of pros and cons on this.

Yes, sir.

Public is against Hoffa.

Teamsters are opposed to the law of the forest.

That's about the size of it, although it's amazing the number of people like Barry Goldwater and the rest of them have interceded on behalf of Hoffa.

The real reason Bill Lowe left you is because of China.

No, it's because of Hoffa.

If you pulled the plug on China, you'd have Bill Lowe back in about 37 seconds.

If you want him back in about 32.

He'll come back in when he's done.

Well, I don't know.

The difficulty with it is not practically letting Hoffa off.

The difficulty is that it smacks of a political deal.

And then his support becomes something that they just beat you over the head with in a campaign.

That's what concerns me.

I agree.

I decline to play for Simmons and let nature take its course on Hoffa.

All right.

Well, I'm not sure.

Well, that of course is a safe course.

And I'm not sure that Pete Simmons wants to hop out.

I know he did want him out until after the 3rd of July.

I know that damn well.

He won that.

We've won that battle.

Why don't you have Frank talk with Fitzsimmons and say, you know, without talking all around, that you could be on both sides of it, since you don't know what I think.

We want you to best advise us on what you do, and tell them it's a hell of a problem, and let it fall off.

That you keep it in absolute confidence, and forget the conversation that took place about that.

That's just great, except that every time I have one of those conferences with them, I get a memorandum back from the FBI about what I told them.

Really?

A couple of times.

Until I showed him one of them, he got scared as hell.

Because he didn't know who was leaking it, and I'm not sure I know who was leaking it either.

One last subject, Mr. President.

I'm getting a hell of a lot of complaints because you're not going to the American Legion.

You're going to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and I don't know anything about it.

What answers do I get?

You're going to the American Legion next year.

You did that this year, and you're doing that convention next year.

See, I believe that.

We've got to gracefully give up on company.

They just don't want company.

They want Bill Rogers.

If you can get on, you and I, we've just got to get Bill Rogers on.

Great.

I appreciate that a lot.

But I do one better carbonization each year.

So I'm going to do a BMW in Dallas this year.

The American Legion is in Houston this year.

I don't want to go to Texas twice in a week's time.

It's a bad, but I'm going to do, I'm not going to do the DFW next year, I am going to do the Legion next year.

This is the following of the president of the commanders, California, and he's pushing hard, and they're naturally going to push, but he hasn't, the president saw him, I saw him, so that's what we're trying to do, but it is really, and they're concerned, because I was supposed to do them last year, and didn't, you know, the Portland thing.

Matter of fact, we turned it around.

We probably should have done it the other way.

I should have done the Legion this year and the FW next year.

But we didn't do it that way.

We have Dick Deloach and Johnson putting a real tight political organization together in here.

You know, Deloach has done a lot of stuff with the FW.

Oh, I know.

He's a big deal.

Well, we'll do it after the election year.

I'll do that.

It's probably not a good tent.

You don't think we should reconsider a new boat this year and a new leader next year?

And I'm not sure doing the veterans organization is too hot myself.

It's an election year.

Really?

I think you've got to be one.

Well, I guess you want to reserve that option.

The weather will do it, not instead of...

Instead of getting off the hook by saying you'll do the legion next year.

No, we've agreed to do the legion.

If I don't do the legion, I've got to do the legion next year.

I've agreed to do that.

But we could move it up to this year if you want to go.

Get the damn thing out of the way.

They know you're not coming.

Who's after you?

Deloach and Johnson and Kendall and

Well, same as last year.

The legion, people now, and the people who are fighting the convention are back the other way, which is because we suggested Conley.

They said they didn't want Conley, they wanted Rogers.

They would take Conley if we insisted.

That's right.

They were a bunch of Rogers because they wanted to be on.

Roger is damn good to go to the Legion.

He's a veteran.

World War II, Pacific, and the rest.

And I think that's very good for them.

I don't think he's a member of the Legion.

I wouldn't be a member of the Legion if I didn't have to.

I'd like to tell them that they're such a...

They...

He's what they want to fight, and Rogers, they're winning half the battle, because they're getting a ton of guys they want, and I said, let's have it, you don't have to buy a cello, I agree with you, but I want you to believe in next year, which is the day for us, and so forth, and of course you have to do it, and you have to have a moment.

They'll lobby to draw national events against whoever the Democrats is, and that's the main thing.

The issues will be strongly drawn.

We can talk more about national events.

This is a good year, and I'm sure you'll do better.

It's our generation.

Tom, we're all out for it.

We're going to do plenty of things for the Legion next year.

We want to do that.

And the idea is that we'd like to have it to a politician like Kendall.

We'd like to have it a little closer to the election.

Yeah, well, I

that I will not do the VFW next year.

It's funny how these people are such horrible rivals.

Well, and also, it turns out that they think it's a horror struggle within the White House, and the friends within the White House, they point out that

Olsen had his office in the Legion.

I mean, the veteran's a far away, and he was responsible for this, rather than this one, this, this.

Olsen's got one person in the Legion.

He's from Larson, and he lives here.

Oh, yes.

He's from the Legion.

And, uh, the chair guy, he doesn't have any slides.

He doesn't have any slides.

He's from the Legion.

Well, he's from both.

The question is, who's more important, the Legion, or the Legion?

As the election team is a matter of time, the VFW has to be out of the way this time.

They all want to do everything, but I can't overdo that.

And doing it this year wouldn't get you out of next year?

No, that's right.

I'm sorry, I said we're going to do you this year, but I'm not going to do you next year.

And it is the way to get out of one next year, and next year you can put the vice-presidential candidate into the VFW.

That's the way you do it.

It's always the way.

I mean, one should do one, and one should do the other.

That's the whole deal, always.

And I'll do it.

plus we can pull up some of the strings we've got on, which, is there anything we can pull out?

We're trying now to talk to them through this, social advisors, friends, to see if we have any places or not to start pulling on these tax jail cases and things like that, to see if that has any effect.

But I just, like I said, is pulling all these kind of, you know,

Well, I wish you could, John.

Get him out of there now.

I would agree.

I would, John.

Try it.

You must have something on him.

Yes.

It'll be a problem.

Prove it.

That's always the case.

Okay.

We'll get McCarthy in it now.

Can you do that?

Who?

McCarthy.

Oh, yes.

I let her... Shirley Chisholm or whatever her name was.

Oh, yes.