Nixon, Ehrlichman & Haldeman on National Economy and Wage and Price Controls

3:39:04Well, I think we're well in the least comment then.
3:39:05Great installation, control, and so on.
3:39:07Well, that's got to do it for today.
3:39:09Perfect.
3:39:09Well, you did that, so this is a great day for you.
3:39:12Yeah.
3:39:12The grade level's down a grand percent.
3:39:15You did very well in the press and construction today.
3:39:21Well, it's been a great day.
3:39:22Okay.
3:39:22Well, I actually wish you well.
3:39:25I'm your colleague.
3:39:26We're not against the vessels.
3:39:29We're for us.
3:39:31I'm with the troops.
3:41:41Are you able to get George?
3:41:43I've got to talk to him.
3:41:45Quick speech.
3:41:46He's supposed to make an election.
3:41:47He's going to have to do that all the time.
3:41:50In fact, then, his problem is he's scheduled at 2 o'clock for his Joint Chiefs briefing that you asked him to get after your meeting.
3:42:00He's pushing you.
3:42:01You should skip that most of the time.
3:42:04Okay.
3:42:06Postpone that.
3:42:08I think you better tell Henry.
3:42:10Yeah, tell Henry that I think we ought to postpone the NFC meeting.
3:42:15If you want to do it now, why don't the club keep going then?
3:42:22No, we stay.
3:42:22You may still want to go ahead.
3:42:25We can postpone it.
3:42:27Easily.
3:42:27The last minute.
3:42:28Alright, fine.
3:42:29Okay.
3:42:50OK. Well, at least I'm not going to charge you to analyze the order.
3:42:58Yeah.
3:42:59OK.
3:43:07Here we go.
3:43:14I said, for instance, yesterday was not a bad day.
3:43:16Well, that's what I heard.
3:43:19And the market still said yesterday.
3:43:22That's why the market went up a little.
3:43:26One of the reasons was six, seven points.
3:43:34But nevertheless, it did stabilize some.
3:43:41But Volker is an alarmist now, and so is Arner.
3:43:44And I know that it's bad, but I don't want...
3:43:52But Volker...
3:43:53That's the one thing with Connolly, I think, and Connolly tends to be involved in events with actors who want to do something, always like his units, who remember him.
3:44:05Also, because he isn't a pro, he listens to those guys, and if you've got a guy that pans you, why do you have to keep panning?
3:44:12Stop panning.
3:44:14Get pushed.
3:44:24What I don't want to do is to do it the wrong way.
3:44:26That's really the problem about it.
3:44:27In fact, it's the wrong way.
3:44:30It'd be too bad to have to do it now.
3:44:41No way.
3:44:44Well, sure.
3:44:44If we couldn't do it, actually, you know I couldn't do it.
3:44:50I can't get a radio.
3:44:52He says, well, except just to make an announcement.
3:44:55Well, I can't get a speech from Charles and all that bullshit ready by tomorrow.
3:44:59I mean, what the hell?
3:45:00It's impossible.
3:45:01Well, now that there's every chance, we just have to make a written announcement.
3:45:11That's what I would do.
3:45:15We should cut out all the impact, too.
3:45:18Yeah, you could do that and then go on television.
3:45:20Yeah, you can.
3:45:25I'm not sure that we...
3:45:27It'd be better not to go on television.
3:45:28I'm not sure if it's right.
3:45:29I mean, I'm not... See, they're all blowing this up.
3:45:32I mean, they were even wanting me to go on television without anything else.
3:45:34I mean, just go on and say they're going to vote the dollar.
3:45:38I've got that.
3:45:39I wouldn't allow that.
3:45:40I mean, I'm not going to go out there.
3:45:42I've got that.
3:45:43I know what we have conflict with.
3:45:45The other point is, look, I should go and talk with you about a grave, blood, sweat, and tears speech.
3:45:49I'm not even going to see.
3:45:51I haven't told them yet that I'm not going to do that because I've got to bring them around to that point of view.
3:45:59But I'm not quite sure.
3:46:01I'm actually sure that's the right thing to do.
3:46:04Now, in terms of alarming people and so forth, let's just look at it.
3:46:08You could announce the, we have announced today, rather than having the president on, you know, and they say, this is a great crisis, and so forth and so on, we went out and just said, you don't need a title or a story that has great action in it.
3:46:30The wage-bite spree is important for us,
3:46:34the, uh, uh, the statement you sent to Jim.
3:46:37And, uh, you could do that right away.
3:46:41You could do that right away in your life.
3:46:49You could come on with the investment tax credit and just call the leaders and deal with it.
3:46:55I'm just not sure that my going on television with, uh, with, uh,
3:47:06It's a negative issue for us.
3:47:08I'm trying to make it positive for society.
3:47:13What's your feeling about that?
3:47:19Just think about the toll it's going to be.
3:47:21Hi, may we interrupt you just for a minute?
3:47:23Sure, sure.
3:47:24Press conference.
3:47:25I think pretty well.
3:47:26Good.
3:47:27My name's John.
3:47:28Sit down, sit down.
3:47:28The best question was when you get into the Cuban incident where
3:47:35Living individuals, some in and out of government, are still available.
3:47:40Would you review the declassification with them before you decide to declassify the documents?
3:47:48Who the hell's living?
3:47:51Bobby's dead.
3:47:52A Roland, Arthur Schlesinger, and so forth?
3:47:56Well, they won't use the classified stuff.
3:47:58Well, we go and consult them first before we declassify them.
3:48:00And I said, I have heard no suggestion of any such procedure.
3:48:05Well, did they ask you if they're going to do that on Lebanon?
3:48:07No.
3:48:07Did the New York Times consult before they got it?
3:48:10No, but you can see how they're going to do it.
3:48:12You can see how they're going to play it.
3:48:14They want to know if you're going to be able to get on there with that.
3:48:18Will they react just the way you want them to?
3:48:19Sure, exactly.
3:48:20And then one call, I want to know whether we're going to be able to get all this done before the election or not.
3:48:26You said so.
3:48:27They were getting the vibes.
3:48:30They were.
3:48:30But you pointed out that I had no .
3:48:32We didn't have any sort of a time frame of that kind.
3:48:36And it started before the papers started going on and started the regular procedure.
3:48:44I think a little bit.
3:48:46Who was that?
3:48:47Oberdorfer asked whether we thought in any way that as a matter of good faith,
3:48:55In seeking the prior restraint, seeking the injunctions in the New York Times Post case, that we felt that we should do so in any degree in order to keep faith in negotiating partners.
3:49:07And I said yes.
3:49:10It's right on money.
3:49:11And so we got a half a dozen questions that said, that is right on the nose.
3:49:14Yeah, that's really the main reason we had to do it.
3:49:19As a matter of fact, we couldn't.
3:49:20We had to.
3:49:21Well, we can now.
3:49:22Now, of course, anybody who's a student can see why.
3:49:26At that critical point, we couldn't.
3:49:28We had no other course of action.
3:49:30If we'd allowed that to start to come out and said, well, we don't care.
3:49:34And now that it's out, it could have jeopardized the
3:49:41current negotiations, because some people say, well, Christ, maybe they aren't really interested in protecting the security.
3:49:47But by making a fight for security, we establish confidence in them.
3:49:50They talk to us, and that's true of others in the future.
3:49:56People don't talk to lawyers that go out and get drunk and black.
3:50:00And so us lawyers, or whose wife comes out black, which is more important.
3:50:07That's right.
3:50:13I think that we got over some of the things that you were looking for.
3:50:16A good pulse for how we proceed when the Rehnquist study comes back, too.
3:50:21I think it gave us a good feel for the pulse of what we're going to expect when Rehnquist Group does come back and report.
3:50:29I want to just lay the foundation here.
3:50:32I want these people to know that, you see, our Democratic friends want to forget about the Caucasians.
3:50:40That's point one.
3:50:43So we're reminding them that we're still there, right?
3:50:48Don't you sense that they do want to forget?
3:50:50Oh, no question.
3:50:52There's no question about that.
3:50:56And John didn't raise it.
3:50:58They raised it for him.
3:50:59Yeah, that's right.
3:51:00I never mentioned it.
3:51:03and the whole declassification thing, now there's a bomb that can go the other way, and it should go, they've asked for it, we didn't go to, you know, they want to be, if they think that Vietnam should be declassified, why not World War II?
3:51:17Why not the QAnon?
3:51:18They're older than Vietnam.
3:51:20I left it open-ended, too.
3:51:22They said, why'd you pick just these?
3:51:24And I said, well, you know, if there are other incidents of this sort, I'm interested if there's time and money.
3:51:28I'm not saying that we wouldn't get into other things.
3:51:32You mentioned the... Oh, yes.
3:51:34Yes, I did.
3:51:36Yeah, that's good.
3:51:37So, and Korea.
3:51:37Korea.
3:51:38We got everybody right in time.
3:51:40And... And the Cuban thing.
3:51:44Right.
3:51:44Two incidents.
3:51:46They paid us the price of the shot.
3:51:53Another instance of historical interest.
3:51:56That's right.
3:51:59And you were able to get across the point that we were trying to classify less protected matter.
3:52:07Right.
3:52:07That's why I started out.
3:52:08And then went into quite a long discussion of why, in the light of, Capo asked me,
3:52:15In retrospect, after the New York Times and Washington Post cases, what can you say about the implication of those cases?
3:52:23And I said, well, they stand to the proposition we had in the longer answer, but they stand to the proposition we had to do a better job of classifying because the government has such a heavy burden of proof in cases of that kind.
3:52:34And the horse will be stolen before we can get the barn door open.
3:52:38Good.
3:52:38So that's kind of where we ended up on that.
3:52:42But they served up some fabulous, and I think most of what we covered in here, we've got across our side of the case, finally.
3:52:52Oh, it was a different, you know, camera.
3:52:55I told her to first let me know, said he'd like to do a long Sunday piece on this for the Post.
3:53:05And particularly the
3:53:08a philosophical thrust of it as it relates to the Times Post cases.
3:53:11I would be inclined to just let this sit where it is.
3:53:18No, I would not give the Post any special treatment.
3:53:20I think the Times and the Post have got to be frozen.
3:53:24Just say, no, we just can't give you special treatment.
3:53:26Well, I'm too busy right now.
3:53:28Good.
3:53:28Okay.
3:53:32Good job.
3:53:34Thank you.
3:53:34We'll make this through.
3:53:36Frankly, I mean, the PR side of it is very important.
3:53:39If we do have to move, frankly, today, my feeling is not to do it on national television.
3:53:45I mean, if we had to move this weekend, my feeling would be just to make an announcement with regard to that.
3:53:56I mean, I just hate bug hell on anything.
3:53:59That's why we've seen it time and again.
3:54:01Every time we move fast, we haven't done it as well as we should have.
3:54:05Maybe you can't avoid it.
3:54:07But it just, we deal with such a cumbersome apparatus here that if we, when we take time, get it planned out, our briefings and all that, if you just lock this out, you lose control of it.
3:54:20And that's...
3:54:23Sure, something at least to consider.
3:54:24If it has to be done, it has to be done.
3:54:26Well.
3:54:27The faster you move, the more likely we are not to get it set the way we want it.
3:54:30Yeah.
3:54:31Now, the other way.
3:54:31There are two different ways you can approach it.
3:54:38You can approach it really hard to the body.
3:54:43Well, there are variations on the two.
3:54:45One is to just do the domestic things now.
3:54:47That would cool the international situation and would provide a basis for negotiating on the international front and doing what we have to do there later.
3:54:59See what I mean?
3:55:01Now, if you did that, I would not do the tax thing now.
3:55:04I would separate it out.
3:55:05I'd just put the price freeze on and import tax.
3:55:12Alright, let's suppose we get that.
3:55:14How would you do that?
3:55:17Would you do that at a national tournament?
3:55:19No.
3:55:24Shouldn't people want the H5 screens?
3:55:25I wouldn't necessarily do that.
3:55:27I think people do want one.
3:55:30But I don't think they're going to like it when they get it.
3:55:34After a while, after a little while, they're going to want to get it.
3:55:43The other way is to separate it out in another way, and that is to do none of the domestic things now.
3:55:47And just to have a comment go on and close the whole thing.
3:55:50And if we do not go on, it just makes an announcement to the Treasury, announces to close this tomorrow, that we're closing the gold window for the purpose of stabilizing the international interest situation.
3:56:13That appeals to me at the moment as being the best thing to do because it's the least thing to do.
3:56:18The only real problem you're dealing with at the moment is the international monetary crisis.
3:56:24That's the only thing that's pushing you off your timetable.
3:56:29Then you go on TV, you work on me on the 7th, and you say, several weeks ago we closed the gold window as the first in our steps.
3:56:39to be taken to approve the, adjust to it, and so on.
3:56:44And then you build your case from there.
3:56:47I just want to report a verdict.
3:56:48I think we're going to get a good story out of this.
3:56:52I think he made a point.
3:56:54He's such a, he has such an impressive volume.
3:56:59It's so buttoned down and believable.
3:57:00But he made all of the points at the right time to have the story out.
3:57:04We have anything else?
3:57:05Right.
3:57:06And throw it out there.
4:00:13But then Jim Naughton asked if I had a comment today on Maryland's end.
4:00:18I just said no.
4:00:19Because he says it in the New York Times.
4:00:23Did John's story come out as basically a progress report?
4:00:27Yes, sir.
4:00:27As a matter of fact, we said we referred to the money that had been at the $730 million to declassify World War II, and we paid it on the meeting here, and that you had asked him to go out and give a basic progress report on where we stand on the development of all of this.
4:00:41And then we proceeded to run through...
4:00:44less classification, but better classification.
4:00:46Refer to your rules if you have followed this.
4:00:48And went through it pretty well.
4:00:56Turn to the Lebanon and the Cuba missile crisis and the Bay of Pigs will be declassified.
4:01:01Of course, World War II is in process.
4:01:04Korea.
4:01:05You know, all of these things will be speeded up.
4:01:09And how things will be held tighter.
4:01:12We have an obligation, he made the point, as government, as a government to conduct foreign policy in a confidential way.
4:01:21And we're going to meet that responsibility.
4:01:23Your intent is to meet that responsibility.
4:01:26That's why you called for the January 7th.
4:01:29Initially in line.
4:01:30You're set.
4:01:34That's interesting.
4:01:36That really accomplishes what you would, the main thing you wanted to accomplish by having a press conference today.
4:01:42Yeah.
4:01:43Really was getting that point.
4:01:44It does it probably in a better way, but guess what?
4:01:47I shouldn't be talking about it.
4:01:49Because it's almost not, yeah, not presidential.
4:01:51I mean, I don't want to get down on the grind most of the times.
4:01:59You've just got to let them know that you're just trying to cross the boat.
4:02:03And it may work.
4:02:05It may work.
4:02:05I mean, it may get some pretty good play.
4:02:12You know, like yesterday was again.
4:02:14Well, coming back to this, I...
4:02:23I mean, Georgia's reaction was that, did he talk about the 6.5 million or whatever?
4:02:28Yeah, he said that's one factor that we don't, that they know over at Treasury that we aren't fully aware of is what the other countries are drawing down.
4:02:37That could change the view.
4:02:39So, you know, if you look at Walker's information.
4:02:46But he didn't think yesterday was too bad a day?
4:02:48No.
4:02:55It may be that the domestic side of it, which is positive, should be held for the Senate.
4:03:13And I probably ought to do it.
4:03:16Although you are even convinced that I ought to do that on television.
4:03:22I'm not, I'm not convinced you're not.
4:03:25It kind of depends on how it all comes together.
4:03:26I don't know whether it's a, in a way, and on the 7th or the 8th, no, 7th is the day before they get here.
4:03:37I hit one just right, just very close.
4:03:44This is that technicality of filing, Ken, where they do it before they're in session.
4:03:50You've got to be sure of it before you send this out.
4:03:51I don't need to send this out.
4:03:54You can file a 12 o'clock the next day.
4:03:56You just announced that you wanted to send in bills through him.
4:04:10I don't think there's any problem on that.
4:04:12Not many hours.
4:04:13Now, the reason for you doing that is it just is a one-ups and chip move.
4:04:16The deal in Congress comes back.
4:04:20President, if they do not wallow around the country in babbling while the President's putting it in his bucket, he'll throw us right out of the face.
4:04:29I think it has to be, if I write this, it has to be a speech.
4:04:33You've got to have breathing.
4:04:41That's what I guess, General.
4:04:42Okay, but then there's got to be a very good breathing that goes with it, that explodes it.
4:04:47Henry, he steps up to this.
4:04:55to change the view so he, you know, may be able to look at Walker's information.
4:05:03But he didn't think yesterday was too bad a day.
4:05:11Not to be pressed into a, you know, it may be that the domestic side of it, which is positive, should be held
4:05:29for the 7th, and I probably ought to do it.
4:05:33Oh, you aren't even convinced that I ought to do that on television, are you?
4:05:40No.
4:05:40I'm not convinced you're not.
4:05:41It kind of depends how it all comes together.
4:05:43I don't know whether it's a...
4:05:45In a way, and on the 7th, or the 8th, no, 7th is the day, the day before they get here.
4:05:53I hit one just right, just right close.
4:06:00Oh.
4:06:26The one, the reason for you doing that is, is it just is a hell of a, a one-option chip move.
4:06:33Dibbling Congress comes back.
4:06:36President, if they do not wallow around the country in babbling while the President's put together this, well, he'll be throwing this right out of my face that David even could have reached.
4:06:47I think it has to be, if I write this, it has to be a speech.
4:06:50You've got to have a reason.
4:06:58Okay, but then there's got to be a very good briefing that goes with it, that explores it, and that sets up that this is part of a plan.
4:07:06You know, as a... You've got to use a copy.
4:07:09A copy of Schultz and Ervin, I think, all three of them.
4:07:13That this is an integrated...
4:07:14Right.
4:07:14Right.
4:07:16A copy of Schultz and Ervin.
4:07:21On a planet, you know, this is a very motor-skeletal thing, and...
4:07:27taking these tests.
4:07:28There's sort of a neat case that builds up taking the international stuff now if you have to.
4:07:36That allows the other to be positive.
4:07:38Allows the other to be positive.
4:07:39If you wash it out, you don't tie the other to it.
4:07:45But you relate back to it.
4:07:48In other words, it gives you an ongoing plan that you're working on.
4:07:55You can do the domestic ones now.
4:08:02There's something kind of incongruous about moving with the stuff.
4:08:05Wait until Congress has been gone a week, and then you know they're going to be back for a month.
4:08:09And all of a sudden, I'm afraid that the domestic things have to wait.
4:08:13That's my point.
4:08:15I just think it looks like we're as panicky as hell.
4:08:17It seems to me that what we really do here is that we probably may have to take the risk.
4:08:26If they did, if something has to be done, I mean,
4:08:31The other point Schultz made that I haven't understood, and maybe I still don't, is that we can't float the dollar because we don't accept the dollar price.
4:08:44The only thing we can do is close the gold window, which is more symbolic than anything else.
4:08:51And maybe it can be put in that way.
4:08:53In other words, we simply say, because of this international speculation.
4:08:57Well, you could just say, because of international speculation, we're closing the goal.
4:09:02We're going to have meetings on the situation and so forth.
4:09:09Well, if we have that, then certainly close to anything.
4:09:13The situation is at a point where
4:09:18So if you just put it in terms now, I could just say we're closing the cold winter in order to protect our...
4:09:23The problem with that is that becomes highly inflationary domestically.
4:09:27And it runs for a month or at least before...
4:09:37I'm not going to afford you to take me domestically.
4:09:39That is inflationary domestically.
4:09:42What is inflationary domestically?
4:09:46is the import tax.
4:09:47That's the inflation.
4:09:48The coasting of the gold could have relatively little impact on the domestic property.
4:09:56Relatively little.
4:10:00It could have, but if it has any effect, it would have an inflationary effect.
4:10:05But maybe in three weeks it won't have any effect anymore.
4:10:06I have a few, but not a whole lot.

Nixon, Ehrlichman & Haldeman on National Economy and Wage and Price Controls

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Also recorded on August 12, 1971

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