Conversation 562-006

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Well, I think we're well in the least comment then.

Great installation, control, and so on.

Well, that's got to do it for today.

Perfect.

Well, you did that, so this is a great day for you.

Yeah.

The grade level's down a grand percent.

You did very well in the press and construction today.

Well, it's been a great day.

Okay.

Well, I actually wish you well.

I'm your colleague.

We're not against the vessels.

We're for us.

I'm with the troops.

Are you able to get George?

I've got to talk to him.

Quick speech.

He's supposed to make an election.

He's going to have to do that all the time.

In fact, then, his problem is he's scheduled at 2 o'clock for his Joint Chiefs briefing that you asked him to get after your meeting.

He's pushing you.

You should skip that most of the time.

Okay.

Postpone that.

I think you better tell Henry.

Yeah, tell Henry that I think we ought to postpone the NFC meeting.

If you want to do it now, why don't the club keep going then?

No, we stay.

You may still want to go ahead.

We can postpone it.

Easily.

The last minute.

Alright, fine.

Okay.

OK. Well, at least I'm not going to charge you to analyze the order.

Yeah.

OK.

Here we go.

I said, for instance, yesterday was not a bad day.

Well, that's what I heard.

And the market still said yesterday.

That's why the market went up a little.

One of the reasons was six, seven points.

But nevertheless, it did stabilize some.

But Volker is an alarmist now, and so is Arner.

And I know that it's bad, but I don't want...

But Volker...

That's the one thing with Connolly, I think, and Connolly tends to be involved in events with actors who want to do something, always like his units, who remember him.

Also, because he isn't a pro, he listens to those guys, and if you've got a guy that pans you, why do you have to keep panning?

Stop panning.

Get pushed.

What I don't want to do is to do it the wrong way.

That's really the problem about it.

In fact, it's the wrong way.

It'd be too bad to have to do it now.

No way.

Well, sure.

If we couldn't do it, actually, you know I couldn't do it.

I can't get a radio.

He says, well, except just to make an announcement.

Well, I can't get a speech from Charles and all that bullshit ready by tomorrow.

I mean, what the hell?

It's impossible.

Well, now that there's every chance, we just have to make a written announcement.

That's what I would do.

We should cut out all the impact, too.

Yeah, you could do that and then go on television.

Yeah, you can.

I'm not sure that we...

It'd be better not to go on television.

I'm not sure if it's right.

I mean, I'm not... See, they're all blowing this up.

I mean, they were even wanting me to go on television without anything else.

I mean, just go on and say they're going to vote the dollar.

I've got that.

I wouldn't allow that.

I mean, I'm not going to go out there.

I've got that.

I know what we have conflict with.

The other point is, look, I should go and talk with you about a grave, blood, sweat, and tears speech.

I'm not even going to see.

I haven't told them yet that I'm not going to do that because I've got to bring them around to that point of view.

But I'm not quite sure.

I'm actually sure that's the right thing to do.

Now, in terms of alarming people and so forth, let's just look at it.

You could announce the, we have announced today, rather than having the president on, you know, and they say, this is a great crisis, and so forth and so on, we went out and just said, you don't need a title or a story that has great action in it.

The wage-bite spree is important for us,

the, uh, uh, the statement you sent to Jim.

And, uh, you could do that right away.

You could do that right away in your life.

You could come on with the investment tax credit and just call the leaders and deal with it.

I'm just not sure that my going on television with, uh, with, uh,

It's a negative issue for us.

I'm trying to make it positive for society.

What's your feeling about that?

Just think about the toll it's going to be.

Hi, may we interrupt you just for a minute?

Sure, sure.

Press conference.

I think pretty well.

Good.

My name's John.

Sit down, sit down.

The best question was when you get into the Cuban incident where

Living individuals, some in and out of government, are still available.

Would you review the declassification with them before you decide to declassify the documents?

Who the hell's living?

Bobby's dead.

A Roland, Arthur Schlesinger, and so forth?

Well, they won't use the classified stuff.

Well, we go and consult them first before we declassify them.

And I said, I have heard no suggestion of any such procedure.

Well, did they ask you if they're going to do that on Lebanon?

No.

Did the New York Times consult before they got it?

No, but you can see how they're going to do it.

You can see how they're going to play it.

They want to know if you're going to be able to get on there with that.

Will they react just the way you want them to?

Sure, exactly.

And then one call, I want to know whether we're going to be able to get all this done before the election or not.

You said so.

They were getting the vibes.

They were.

But you pointed out that I had no .

We didn't have any sort of a time frame of that kind.

And it started before the papers started going on and started the regular procedure.

I think a little bit.

Who was that?

Oberdorfer asked whether we thought in any way that as a matter of good faith,

In seeking the prior restraint, seeking the injunctions in the New York Times Post case, that we felt that we should do so in any degree in order to keep faith in negotiating partners.

And I said yes.

It's right on money.

And so we got a half a dozen questions that said, that is right on the nose.

Yeah, that's really the main reason we had to do it.

As a matter of fact, we couldn't.

We had to.

Well, we can now.

Now, of course, anybody who's a student can see why.

At that critical point, we couldn't.

We had no other course of action.

If we'd allowed that to start to come out and said, well, we don't care.

And now that it's out, it could have jeopardized the

current negotiations, because some people say, well, Christ, maybe they aren't really interested in protecting the security.

But by making a fight for security, we establish confidence in them.

They talk to us, and that's true of others in the future.

People don't talk to lawyers that go out and get drunk and black.

And so us lawyers, or whose wife comes out black, which is more important.

That's right.

I think that we got over some of the things that you were looking for.

A good pulse for how we proceed when the Rehnquist study comes back, too.

I think it gave us a good feel for the pulse of what we're going to expect when Rehnquist Group does come back and report.

I want to just lay the foundation here.

I want these people to know that, you see, our Democratic friends want to forget about the Caucasians.

That's point one.

So we're reminding them that we're still there, right?

Don't you sense that they do want to forget?

Oh, no question.

There's no question about that.

And John didn't raise it.

They raised it for him.

Yeah, that's right.

I never mentioned it.

and the whole declassification thing, now there's a bomb that can go the other way, and it should go, they've asked for it, we didn't go to, you know, they want to be, if they think that Vietnam should be declassified, why not World War II?

Why not the QAnon?

They're older than Vietnam.

I left it open-ended, too.

They said, why'd you pick just these?

And I said, well, you know, if there are other incidents of this sort, I'm interested if there's time and money.

I'm not saying that we wouldn't get into other things.

You mentioned the... Oh, yes.

Yes, I did.

Yeah, that's good.

So, and Korea.

Korea.

We got everybody right in time.

And... And the Cuban thing.

Right.

Two incidents.

They paid us the price of the shot.

Another instance of historical interest.

That's right.

And you were able to get across the point that we were trying to classify less protected matter.

Right.

That's why I started out.

And then went into quite a long discussion of why, in the light of, Capo asked me,

In retrospect, after the New York Times and Washington Post cases, what can you say about the implication of those cases?

And I said, well, they stand to the proposition we had in the longer answer, but they stand to the proposition we had to do a better job of classifying because the government has such a heavy burden of proof in cases of that kind.

And the horse will be stolen before we can get the barn door open.

Good.

So that's kind of where we ended up on that.

But they served up some fabulous, and I think most of what we covered in here, we've got across our side of the case, finally.

Oh, it was a different, you know, camera.

I told her to first let me know, said he'd like to do a long Sunday piece on this for the Post.

And particularly the

a philosophical thrust of it as it relates to the Times Post cases.

I would be inclined to just let this sit where it is.

No, I would not give the Post any special treatment.

I think the Times and the Post have got to be frozen.

Just say, no, we just can't give you special treatment.

Well, I'm too busy right now.

Good.

Okay.

Good job.

Thank you.

We'll make this through.

Frankly, I mean, the PR side of it is very important.

If we do have to move, frankly, today, my feeling is not to do it on national television.

I mean, if we had to move this weekend, my feeling would be just to make an announcement with regard to that.

I mean, I just hate bug hell on anything.

That's why we've seen it time and again.

Every time we move fast, we haven't done it as well as we should have.

Maybe you can't avoid it.

But it just, we deal with such a cumbersome apparatus here that if we, when we take time, get it planned out, our briefings and all that, if you just lock this out, you lose control of it.

And that's...

Sure, something at least to consider.

If it has to be done, it has to be done.

Well.

The faster you move, the more likely we are not to get it set the way we want it.

Yeah.

Now, the other way.

There are two different ways you can approach it.

You can approach it really hard to the body.

Well, there are variations on the two.

One is to just do the domestic things now.

That would cool the international situation and would provide a basis for negotiating on the international front and doing what we have to do there later.

See what I mean?

Now, if you did that, I would not do the tax thing now.

I would separate it out.

I'd just put the price freeze on and import tax.

Alright, let's suppose we get that.

How would you do that?

Would you do that at a national tournament?

No.

Shouldn't people want the H5 screens?

I wouldn't necessarily do that.

I think people do want one.

But I don't think they're going to like it when they get it.

After a while, after a little while, they're going to want to get it.

The other way is to separate it out in another way, and that is to do none of the domestic things now.

And just to have a comment go on and close the whole thing.

And if we do not go on, it just makes an announcement to the Treasury, announces to close this tomorrow, that we're closing the gold window for the purpose of stabilizing the international interest situation.

That appeals to me at the moment as being the best thing to do because it's the least thing to do.

The only real problem you're dealing with at the moment is the international monetary crisis.

That's the only thing that's pushing you off your timetable.

Then you go on TV, you work on me on the 7th, and you say, several weeks ago we closed the gold window as the first in our steps.

to be taken to approve the, adjust to it, and so on.

And then you build your case from there.

I just want to report a verdict.

I think we're going to get a good story out of this.

I think he made a point.

He's such a, he has such an impressive volume.

It's so buttoned down and believable.

But he made all of the points at the right time to have the story out.

We have anything else?

Right.

And throw it out there.

But then Jim Naughton asked if I had a comment today on Maryland's end.

I just said no.

Because he says it in the New York Times.

Did John's story come out as basically a progress report?

Yes, sir.

As a matter of fact, we said we referred to the money that had been at the $730 million to declassify World War II, and we paid it on the meeting here, and that you had asked him to go out and give a basic progress report on where we stand on the development of all of this.

And then we proceeded to run through...

less classification, but better classification.

Refer to your rules if you have followed this.

And went through it pretty well.

Turn to the Lebanon and the Cuba missile crisis and the Bay of Pigs will be declassified.

Of course, World War II is in process.

Korea.

You know, all of these things will be speeded up.

And how things will be held tighter.

We have an obligation, he made the point, as government, as a government to conduct foreign policy in a confidential way.

And we're going to meet that responsibility.

Your intent is to meet that responsibility.

That's why you called for the January 7th.

Initially in line.

You're set.

That's interesting.

That really accomplishes what you would, the main thing you wanted to accomplish by having a press conference today.

Yeah.

Really was getting that point.

It does it probably in a better way, but guess what?

I shouldn't be talking about it.

Because it's almost not, yeah, not presidential.

I mean, I don't want to get down on the grind most of the times.

You've just got to let them know that you're just trying to cross the boat.

And it may work.

It may work.

I mean, it may get some pretty good play.

You know, like yesterday was again.

Well, coming back to this, I...

I mean, Georgia's reaction was that, did he talk about the 6.5 million or whatever?

Yeah, he said that's one factor that we don't, that they know over at Treasury that we aren't fully aware of is what the other countries are drawing down.

That could change the view.

So, you know, if you look at Walker's information.

But he didn't think yesterday was too bad a day?

No.

It may be that the domestic side of it, which is positive, should be held for the Senate.

And I probably ought to do it.

Although you are even convinced that I ought to do that on television.

I'm not, I'm not convinced you're not.

It kind of depends on how it all comes together.

I don't know whether it's a, in a way, and on the 7th or the 8th, no, 7th is the day before they get here.

I hit one just right, just very close.

This is that technicality of filing, Ken, where they do it before they're in session.

You've got to be sure of it before you send this out.

I don't need to send this out.

You can file a 12 o'clock the next day.

You just announced that you wanted to send in bills through him.

I don't think there's any problem on that.

Not many hours.

Now, the reason for you doing that is it just is a one-ups and chip move.

The deal in Congress comes back.

President, if they do not wallow around the country in babbling while the President's putting it in his bucket, he'll throw us right out of the face.

I think it has to be, if I write this, it has to be a speech.

You've got to have breathing.

That's what I guess, General.

Okay, but then there's got to be a very good breathing that goes with it, that explodes it.

Henry, he steps up to this.

to change the view so he, you know, may be able to look at Walker's information.

But he didn't think yesterday was too bad a day.

Not to be pressed into a, you know, it may be that the domestic side of it, which is positive, should be held

for the 7th, and I probably ought to do it.

Oh, you aren't even convinced that I ought to do that on television, are you?

No.

I'm not convinced you're not.

It kind of depends how it all comes together.

I don't know whether it's a...

In a way, and on the 7th, or the 8th, no, 7th is the day, the day before they get here.

I hit one just right, just right close.

Oh.

The one, the reason for you doing that is, is it just is a hell of a, a one-option chip move.

Dibbling Congress comes back.

President, if they do not wallow around the country in babbling while the President's put together this, well, he'll be throwing this right out of my face that David even could have reached.

I think it has to be, if I write this, it has to be a speech.

You've got to have a reason.

Okay, but then there's got to be a very good briefing that goes with it, that explores it, and that sets up that this is part of a plan.

You know, as a... You've got to use a copy.

A copy of Schultz and Ervin, I think, all three of them.

That this is an integrated...

Right.

A copy of Schultz and Ervin.

On a planet, you know, this is a very motor-skeletal thing, and...

taking these tests.

There's sort of a neat case that builds up taking the international stuff now if you have to.

That allows the other to be positive.

Allows the other to be positive.

If you wash it out, you don't tie the other to it.

But you relate back to it.

In other words, it gives you an ongoing plan that you're working on.

You can do the domestic ones now.

There's something kind of incongruous about moving with the stuff.

Wait until Congress has been gone a week, and then you know they're going to be back for a month.

And all of a sudden, I'm afraid that the domestic things have to wait.

That's my point.

I just think it looks like we're as panicky as hell.

It seems to me that what we really do here is that we probably may have to take the risk.

If they did, if something has to be done, I mean,

The other point Schultz made that I haven't understood, and maybe I still don't, is that we can't float the dollar because we don't accept the dollar price.

The only thing we can do is close the gold window, which is more symbolic than anything else.

And maybe it can be put in that way.

In other words, we simply say, because of this international speculation.

Well, you could just say, because of international speculation, we're closing the goal.

We're going to have meetings on the situation and so forth.

Well, if we have that, then certainly close to anything.

The situation is at a point where

So if you just put it in terms now, I could just say we're closing the cold winter in order to protect our...

The problem with that is that becomes highly inflationary domestically.

And it runs for a month or at least before...

I'm not going to afford you to take me domestically.

That is inflationary domestically.

What is inflationary domestically?

is the import tax.

That's the inflation.

The coasting of the gold could have relatively little impact on the domestic property.

Relatively little.

It could have, but if it has any effect, it would have an inflationary effect.

But maybe in three weeks it won't have any effect anymore.

I have a few, but not a whole lot.