Nixon, Ford & Griffin on Economic Policy and Wage and Price Controls

1:48:06Well, I'm sorry I had to do it full time.
1:48:07They had 40 pluggers.
1:48:07They had all their men prepared for the visit.
1:48:08Come on, sir.
1:48:09Let's hurry together tonight, those guys.
1:48:10I think that tomorrow's time will... We do have, uh...
1:48:22Let me tell you what I have in mind.
1:48:23I think it's very important.
1:48:49But it is very important to keep the momentum and the offensive on the Senate.
1:49:10We have a very great psychological wisdom in the country.
1:49:11If, on the other hand, I was trying to put those guys on the spot every day in a nice way, but if, on the other hand, the Congress drags its feet for trying to make a Christmas tree, or any of that, without that, it could go, it could stand.
1:49:16Now, they're going to try to lay all that business about the interest rate, you know.
1:49:17I told John Compton...
1:49:39But in terms of this whole package, it can have...
1:50:00an enormous effect on Joe Biden's economy, yet the country gets the impression that the Congress is going to move on the investment tax credit, on the excise taxes,
1:50:18They're going to screw off on this, believe me.
1:50:19And they're going to screw off.
1:50:20They're going to delay.
1:50:20They're going to do it.
1:50:21Now, they're caught off balance now.
1:50:22And as you know, they must all be eating.
1:50:23And you know what?
1:50:24Because all the Democrats who are coming on this issue, all of them asked us to do these things, mostly in one degree or another.
1:50:28Now that we've done it, their only answer can be, well,
1:50:40Why didn't we do it?
1:50:41You've got to watch.
1:50:41Some of them will not.
1:50:42Some of them, they're going to be partisan.
1:50:42It's all because they see the space well.
1:50:43Now, this is a time of Republicans who can't even, in my view, on the partisan issue, just came and said, this is for the good of the country.
1:50:46This is something that's for jobs.
1:50:47Let's not have this down here.
1:50:47Let's not have partisan.
1:51:08Because you've got a country behind you.
1:51:09Like in your state, I imagine that 75% of the people would be for Trump.
1:51:11Well, I was in Denver, Mr. President, coming down last night.
1:51:14And they interviewed 20 people at the Denver Post.
1:51:16And that's not a very favorable paper.
1:51:17They interviewed 20 people.
1:51:1818 out of the 20 were enthusiastic.
1:51:38And two were a little mixed, but not really antagonistic.
1:51:39Except for the guy here and there that's going to miss out on a week.
1:51:41And some of the government employees, even them, though, they cited some of their wives for saying, well, we're delighted if you keep prices down.
1:51:44See, the wives know the weight increases, and the point that I made in that whole speech, that the effect of it.
1:52:01And as I say, and I put an award in peace, and I always get it back to the worship, that in the four war years, 65 to 69, American wages got huge wage increases.
1:52:04But as the riots know, they were totally not by price increases, which they were.
1:52:06And we're stopping that with this.
1:52:07So there's wage increases.
1:52:07That's just how it works.
1:52:25I asked Wilbur Mills when he was going to start hearings because I wanted it on the record in front of everybody.
1:52:28And that forced old Russell to turn around a little bit.
1:52:30Yeah, Russell was there trying to squirm off.
1:52:52put in some of his own pet ideas.
1:52:52Now, we'll take those things up in January, but we must not, if we can avoid it, Bob, we must not butter up the Senate with 30 different amendments for every pet thing.
1:52:56Now, if they lose it all, some will take it.
1:52:57But you just let it be.
1:52:57The thing to do is to make it short and surgical and right and move on to that amendment.
1:53:14And then take the other things in January and say, all right, that's the time for a tax reform.
1:53:16Let's go ahead and say, they'll try to say, well, now's the time to have an exemption for your tuition, or now's the time to have an exemption for that.
1:53:19Sure, maybe the time, but not now.
1:53:20This is not the time for more cuts of that sort.
1:53:32Mr. President, Chuck passed into me a little memo on what he thought we might say.
1:53:35And Chuck, I don't think right now, in light of the attitude of that meeting, I ought to, or anybody else, should go out and attack me, or go out and hit McGovern.
1:53:43I think there...
1:53:55can all find themselves in an unpopular position in the 20th century.
1:53:57The point that I make is this.
1:53:58Don't let them, however, build men.
1:53:58The business, this person of business is not the working man, it's only the businessman.
1:54:11Don't let them get away with that.
1:54:11Now, in other words, these little lies can become part of the national consciousness.
1:54:13So, at appropriate times, I think you've got to take on.
1:54:14Huber and the others, they're all sort of taking part in this stuff.
1:54:15I would say, I would mourn sorrow and anger.
1:54:16I would say, isn't it too bad that they're partisan about something that the great majority of the country...
1:54:34and put it in terms of the challenges of peace.
1:54:36We've got to meet this as we meet the challenges.
1:54:37It's the greatest of war.
1:54:38This is a time for our partners.
1:54:39This is a time to put the country first, and not narrow parts of China.
1:54:41I can cram it down your damn throats.
1:54:42These guys are desperate, politically.
1:54:43They know they've been hit.
1:54:54You know, maybe they don't know the reason, John.
1:54:56Well, Harris says we've just, uh, cut their legs out from under them.
1:54:57They thought it was their issue.
1:54:58They're trying to say to Pat, you know, neither Muskie nor Kennedy have issued any signal.
1:54:59Their offices won't even count.
1:55:00And Muskie is
1:55:22We've got to have wage rising.
1:55:23Voluntary.
1:55:23And then Sunday night, the most historic announcement that the president makes in must-see sound.
1:55:25It's just not a word.
1:55:25Not a word.
1:55:26And to let that answer get a little bit, it's just amazing.
1:55:27When this meeting broke up, did the press get to Mike and to Uber Mills?
1:55:28Was there some way that they could get to them there?
1:55:29We never had a briefing for the five-hour solution, so we couldn't tell them anything.
1:55:31Gee, that would have been a time that made all those guys.
1:55:47I stood there while he talked to Wilbur and with Mike and said, now what can I say?
1:55:49And Ron wrote it down.
1:55:50I stood right there.
1:55:50And Ron went out and he put it on the record.
1:56:06Mr. President, he's not very cooperative.
1:56:07Wilbur is the guy.
1:56:07That's why I played the line and looked over.
1:56:08You suggested something.
1:56:09I think that's a line that we should continue.
1:56:10Give him the credit.
1:56:10Yes, sir.
1:56:10In the end, you're going to give us credit.
1:56:11Who does it?
1:56:11It's us.
1:56:11If times are bad, they throw us out.
1:56:12That's why.
1:56:34Let me say, watch it.
1:56:34Don't let it build up.
1:56:34We'll keep in touch with you.
1:56:35Don't let it build up into a...
1:57:00If you look at the papers yesterday in the debate, our news analysts said that there was more, of course, the China announcement had an enormous effect, but they couldn't write as many stories because nobody knew enough about it.
1:57:06But this has more dominated the news, more dominated even the China announcement, and more basically than even the war announcement.
1:57:09It's kind of more sustained, yeah, which has had an awe and awe and awe.
1:57:26And we'll continue for a couple of days, but the point you make, Mr. President, of not letting these guys get too much initiative to go in against us is terribly important because I think you've got to, as you put it this morning, you've got to keep their heads low.
1:57:31And if they do start to get irresponsible, I mean, Humphrey's statement was generally his support.
1:57:33Jackson's was kind of...
1:57:51We want to build it.
1:57:51President city.
1:58:22You're not.
1:58:23I think it's a very interesting kind of thing.
1:58:24We could just keep going.
1:58:48Well, we'll have the bill through the House the first week in October.
1:58:49On the schedule that Wilbur committed himself to.
1:58:50But you're going to have pretty tough countries.
1:58:52The set house up in countries will be tough.
1:58:53You'll have mills,
1:59:12You never heard of that sign?
1:59:13Oh, Wilbur and Johnny will never sign that.
1:59:14Wilbur told me that today.
1:59:14I said, you know what?
1:59:15I'm going to screw this up.
1:59:15You see what you're going to do?
1:59:16No.
1:59:16I said, you promise?
1:59:17They can't all stand up.
1:59:17This is one time.
1:59:17Jared, Bob, you've got to get our 12 Republican assistants, you know, moving.
1:59:19They've got to tell them that's all.
1:59:39that it must be this and nothing more.
1:59:40Can you get that across to them?
1:59:41It's got to be this program and nothing more.
1:59:42And hold fast on that.
1:59:43Don't add anything to it.
1:59:43Don't take anything away.
1:59:44This is it.
1:59:44So it's that money that wrote you about wages, prices, and action.
1:59:45My God, those are the long words that Elaine wanted, and they ought to...
1:59:47But I should say that we can also test the problem that's happening.
2:00:20Because it shouldn't be anymore.
2:00:21If you start screwing it up, it could get way out of hand.
2:00:22And also, delay, delay, delay.
2:00:23That's the air traffic.
2:00:23Delay at Proxmire and here now.
2:00:24You know what I'm afraid, excuse me, Chuck, about Proxmire.
2:00:25And that's why I asked about ADR.
2:00:26Proxmire might try to put in that bill on the Senate side.
2:00:27A repealer of your authority for the ADR.
2:00:49Accelerated depreciation.
2:00:50Now, they can't do that on the House side.
2:00:51But, you know, he's been making this big fight.
2:00:52In fact, I think he's started a lawsuit, didn't he?
2:00:53He or somebody.
2:00:53Some of them.
2:00:54Some of them.
2:00:54That's the only time.
2:00:54Don't let him fool around with it.
2:00:55He's the worst Democrat.
2:00:56Oh.
2:01:20I will say you cut the ground with him on the end of it.
2:01:22His statements have been good.
2:01:22And he's been very, very strong and supportive of it from the very start.
2:01:24A lot of them are going to go home after Clark, you know, retired.
2:01:25Well, anyway, good luck.
2:01:25Thanks for coming back.
2:01:26Good night, everybody.
2:01:57All right.
2:03:22But anything I can do the day before I leave, you're going to have to take a look at this.
2:03:24I'll give you that.
2:03:24Yeah, I'd like a copy of this.
2:03:25Get that to the shelf.
2:03:25This is what Chuck wrote me.
2:03:26I think right now, if they start to undermine that, then I think it's serious.
2:03:52Keep a little suppressive fire.
2:03:53Keep the hits.
2:03:53I'll be back in Michigan Sunday.
2:03:54I'll be good.
2:04:26Well, thank you for the service.
2:04:26Oh, I just wanted to talk to you about that a little bit.
2:04:27I hope we can sit and relax a little bit.
2:04:28I probably won't be able to, you know, aren't going to be able to take it.
2:05:00The bar was standing by whenever it's convenient for you, Mr. President.
2:05:01Yeah.
2:05:02In fact, I think he's right now.
2:05:02I think he has an empty chair right now, if you'd like to see it.
2:05:03Yeah.
2:05:04And, Matt, could I have your signature, please?
2:05:04Yeah, either that or...
2:05:05I was thinking that might be more convenient for me at 4.30, I think.
2:05:064.30 is fine.
2:05:06Is he going to...
2:05:39Nice guys.
2:05:39They're nice guys, Sam.
2:05:40Also, if they ever see any opportunities,
2:05:54slicing and squirming and screaming around.
2:05:55Goddamn it, our Republicans, whether it's on China or this or anything else, they can't be out and be enthusiastic because you find that purity.
2:05:58I'm sorry to say this, but I...
2:05:59I mean, the Rockefeller system, are other Republicans standing up for this or what are they doing?
2:06:01There's been a very good reaction from the Republicans.
2:06:24As we try to find those who may help attack, it's a little bit difficult.
2:06:26It's a little weekend.
2:06:26A jury just said to me going out, he said, well, if you really want some help and need it by this weekend, he said, I can do something Saturday or Sunday.
2:06:29Yeah.
2:07:01I mean, I want to have a genuine positive.
2:07:35Did you see the, uh, one-by-one report that you got in?
2:08:13All day, the first hour was up 1, but it was up 0.98.
2:08:14Second hour was up 4.67, third hour up 5.54.
2:08:15And it's running at about 5 million shares an hour, which would have to be at 27, 28.
2:08:38It's at least hanging in, you know, a day or two.
2:08:39You can't go two days in a row, or five, or it's none of my charm.
2:08:40You can make the second day, or you're down, or you're down.
2:08:41This is a very good, salty, good time, because it shows us, if it was salty, and it stays in the evening, or in the evening, you'd be in very good shape.
2:08:44The TV, that's very good.
2:08:45We had a 40-grade, which is enormously good for a summer.
2:09:08which is 48 million viewers in our city.
2:09:08So we have a good impact.
2:09:09And I think the buildup, you know, that probably helped.
2:09:10And some of the other people, some of the nightcars, a lot of people look at TV.
2:09:12Oh, there is.
2:09:12But this is bigger than the normal audience.
2:09:13If you had an 80 chair, which is about, they're probably a little higher than you usually get.
2:09:35People watching television or watching non-network stations didn't see 80% of it.
2:09:3750 million people
2:10:27Well, I just want to report on the medium.
2:10:51The report to the press went well because John Burns stopped out at the driveway and saw some of the press and gave his answer.
2:10:54The full cooperation made the points in need for the whole program to pass and so forth.
2:10:56And gave that report to the press and then I filled it in based on Massville quotes and also on the Burns quote.
2:10:59Now I want the new one.
2:10:59I just put it in there.
2:11:22That's fine.
2:11:54Why don't you check the staff?
2:11:54I see one of my teammates, my teammate, and they're more detailed.
2:11:56Wait, I don't think he needs to be covered.
2:11:56Right.
2:11:57And then you can ask my leaders as well.
2:11:57I'm going to see her, and I'm not going to ask her.
2:11:58So I'll review my notes ahead, and then we'll get the odds down.
2:12:00Thanks, Richard.
2:12:36Too long.
2:12:36Did you?
2:12:36Are you positive?
2:12:36I know some.
2:12:36I wonder if that would all hit him on the nose.
2:12:37Just to see that.
2:12:38Oh.
2:12:38You didn't see that, did you?
2:12:38There was some hope that he wouldn't be able to make it, I guess.
2:12:40The rest of the law recurses to all your responsibilities.
2:12:41Well, at least we got it out.
2:13:09If you do that now, this way you're going to get that much credit, more credit for it.
2:13:51We put them right to the sword.
2:13:52Right, yeah.
2:13:52I was talking to Henry earlier and the way he's acting, he sees it in the same terms as his other stuff.
2:13:54You know, you buy them off your criticism and critics of the ego.
2:13:56You can't do what you ought to do.
2:13:56Just like on the Lord, you were doing the right thing, but you had to buy it.
2:14:18It may or may not work.
2:14:18Boy, it's...
2:14:45Just gives people what they want.
2:14:46It was the fancy cohort kind of throws them off, doesn't it?
2:14:48Just here to go.
2:14:48Got something to talk about.
2:14:49Is anybody with me on these parcels?
2:15:21That's the beauty of this kind of trip.
2:15:22You're not going from any place to any place.
2:15:23Mitchell's going up with you tonight, but you don't have to talk to him.
2:15:24Oh, I can't.
2:15:24You've got to work.
2:15:25And that's no problem.
2:15:25And you're coming from the National Park.
2:15:26You're going from Dallas out to LA, or you can count on us to arrive, because he seems to be out there for the veterans' hostel.
2:15:28We're giving some people some rides.
2:15:50that they're not people that you know to deal with at all.
2:15:52I'm wondering if you could do us a check, any contacts, anyone out there that has to do the...
2:16:24Plenty of good crowds, people that didn't expect.
2:16:25And so I've talked to her.
2:16:26I've talked to her.
2:16:26I just don't want to be caught.
2:16:27I just want to be sure that we're doing everything we can.
2:16:28It may be to help us make a difference.
2:16:29It may be that it's enough.
2:16:29My guess is that you can always get $1,000.
2:16:30That's my opinion.
2:16:30That's the number to sort of match.
2:16:31$1,000 is as good as $5,000 is now.
2:16:31You know?
2:16:32That's right.
2:16:32Just that.
2:16:54And $10,000 is as good as $100,000.
2:16:54It's the way it works.
2:16:54It's just a big number.
2:16:55Well, the numbers, when you get into the thousands, the numbers don't make any difference.
2:16:57When you start closing up with the $80,000 to the $10,000, yeah, it just doesn't matter.
2:16:58Like the names.
2:16:58Markets just didn't like that.
2:16:59They were more than $5,000 back then.
2:17:00They probably were.
2:17:00Probably were.
2:18:44The one you couldn't knock out was the economy.
2:18:44There was, and that's the one you sat there and said, well, Frank doesn't even want to.
2:18:46Black, he can't knock out anyone.
2:18:47He, there's no way to knock that one out, even if he did want to.
2:18:48But you lose more, much more than you gain.
2:18:49And there's, there's a solid answer there.
2:19:16It starts with what we're calling an unemployment has to demand.
2:19:17I understand.
2:19:18You're about an hour this long.
2:19:18That's not going to make any difference, but it doesn't matter.
2:19:20Everybody says, geez, thank God you did it.
2:19:21The fact of the matter is, we aren't going to debate about it.
2:19:23Whatever that has to say, what you're doing is working.
2:19:25I'm sure.
2:19:51But I just firmly believe that the psychology of technology has been 90% of our problem.
2:19:52And then you turn at least 90% of it around and therefore solve 80% of the problem.
2:19:54And you can't help to solve more than that.
2:20:16It's the unemployment thing, how people held off hiring people because they weren't sure what was happening.
2:20:18They were worried about this and that, and you might do this, you might do that now.
2:20:20But money's changed.
2:20:20Attitude changes.
2:20:21You know, it's just whether a person gets out in the morning, it's just going to be a good day or a bad day.
2:20:43You're in a good mood, you can handle a lot of rough news.
2:20:44I'm trying to help out the contractor.
2:20:44And if you're bad too, as you turn down things, you don't buy that hurt stuff, you don't go out to them, you don't steal, I help out, you just steal, but I don't feel good about things.
2:20:48And it doesn't take very much.
2:20:59difference to make arms change, there's always change.
2:21:00In fact, the war made people feel a bad attitude towards Iran, and that eventually, in fact, was very disappointing about the war.
2:21:03Now, let's turn it around.
2:21:03That's, that's your, that's your closest test.
2:21:04See if you're one minute.
2:21:05Can you stand here, silent?
2:21:05All right.
2:21:32That's the, that's the re-box.
2:21:33That's the re-box?
2:21:33Yeah.
2:21:33Oh, okay, there's some other stuff.
2:21:34Yeah, there's some other stuff.
2:21:34All right, go on, there's some other stuff.
2:21:35I gotta get that out right away.
2:21:36Arnie Weber would be glad to stay and do the job.
2:22:07Well, he works at this point fairly well with Lincoln.
2:22:08Although, as he says, General Lincoln
2:22:36We've got to put a dime into the... What we've got to do is get it... We've got to get...
2:22:38If Arnie's going to leave in 90 days, that gives us about two or three weeks to find a guy and get him in in OEP, and then a couple months for Arnie to really get in.
2:22:41Well, it is necessarily the case that the OEP will have a special role to play.
2:22:43I couldn't be doing this.
2:22:43I've been trying to spin that off
2:23:07I know we want to spend it better.
2:23:08But basically, even in the 90 days, I think somebody's got to be there who can inspire confidence and moxie or something of that sort as well.
2:23:11Do you have anybody else?
2:23:23We've got some people outside that are good people.
2:23:24We've got some people outside that are good people.
2:23:26And if one of them has to get a really good time, well, that's one thought, yes.
2:23:27And with all this strength, you can get a better man for OVP than you could before because you've got to have a spirit.
2:23:53this job for 90 days.
2:23:53So we need to do this job.
2:23:54Now, I really think they're having a valuable business experience to do this for me.
2:23:55Now, are you going to abandon it while the show would be within 90 days?
2:23:57No, we're not going to do it.
2:23:57No, but what I'm getting at, George, is that you didn't get it by default.
2:23:59It's a hell of a political post that you can get a guy out of some of the other countries on this, on the latest prices.
2:24:01Right, right.
2:24:01You see, he's got the exact same shit about him.
2:24:02He's the guy that can go out and whap me if you have the right on inflation and all
2:24:27He gets other people to lunch up.
2:24:28He's good at getting other people to...
2:25:06I think Ron Saul was fine.
2:25:06He was, uh, he was a speaker, sort of part of the, uh,
2:25:25Why don't you just make Arnie O-E-T-M the other?
2:25:26Why doesn't he run himself?
2:25:50But there's plenty to do beyond what OED does.
2:25:51As the executive assistant for economy and as chairman of this cost of living council, it's their job not only to get the freedom operative, but to figure out what comes next.
2:26:21I think the more sophisticated person who knows, I mean, everybody's going to assume that the guy who leaves, he's going to be the one who's going to be making some decisions with regard to what, you know, these exceptions, like they raised this morning, and they know Rummy just doesn't know it at all.
2:26:27I mean, I just think that
2:26:53Well, what are you supposed to do?
2:26:54Well, you're right.
2:26:54Okay.

Nixon, Ford & Griffin on Economic Policy and Wage and Price Controls

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Also recorded on August 17, 1971

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