On September 14, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:37 pm to 1:45 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 572-008 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Listen, listen.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
That is the food set of the X number dollar.
That's the $10 one.
That's cost $10.
Well, yeah, not in that box, but the ordinary folks would buy it for $10.
That's what it costs us.
It doesn't cost us anything.
And then he gave us, uh, a hundred of them.
Well, hell, uh, in that, in that box that says it's something we can use as a currency.
Yeah, you can.
We only have a hundred.
But you can use them as a, you can use them as a pretty high-level trick.
They're a ten-dollar item.
I know, but for a hundred?
You can't give them what you can use them for.
Very expensive.
Especially those that Steve's got in his supply.
Good.
Wow.
As far as just a jump, this isn't a serial.
Oh, no.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
This isn't a serial.
I was wondering if something had happened to you.
Why don't we get a certificate of appreciation to the people who serve on the Commissions?
How much do we give to them?
They get it.
They get a commission, don't they?
Oh, it depends.
It depends on the commission.
I was thinking, for example, of a group here, getting in here.
The Williams Group.
There's the Williams Group.
Yeah.
People like that.
I think they get a thing.
Well, if they get something, forget it.
Otherwise, it's a certificate of appreciation.
Don't give them too much.
Would you do that?
Yeah.
It's a certificate of appreciation.
Now, I'm not sure I can sign your Bible for it at all, but at least your Bible's in there.
Bible sign.
Yes, it is.
Rose probably has some signs.
She probably signed that one.
I don't know.
Well, I'm sure they do get the FICO.
It's a very important thing.
Yeah, personally.
I know they do because I've seen reference to it in some money.
We have a great group.
Yes, we are.
We do have a system.
I did some checking through yesterday.
We do have a list.
We do have, for instance, they've opened a, and it may be interesting as a matter of fact, a guy that's running a Rebozo investigation.
The New York IRS office is open to check on him and think they may have something.
Which I wanted to report.
Yeah, but there was one guy that we had a meeting with VB or something that came up with some discussion before.
We put that in and they said they thought they might have something.
It paid off.
What about the rich Jews?
The IRS is full of Jews, Bob, right?
That's what I think.
I think that Jews in Iraq are great.
Well, Jews.
The point I've made, John, is that they've got to get the kind of guy that we're not just interested in.
We don't want to see the bottom.
That's not the thing we're trying to get.
But what we want to do is get a zealot who dislikes those people just as much as a zealot who dislikes Billy Graham is working on his file.
In other words, don't just go after Microsoft.
That's right.
And we've got, we did the, we have a boy, the guy at the top of the squat ready, but he set up the bench so that it can be done without, you know, anybody that's just over here to hop on to your side, getting involved in it.
And I'll get around that on what we're doing from time to time, just to get it, all right, get ready to go.
And keep the heat on, because it's like hanging on to the spot on the chair.
Yes, sir.
I had a, in the legislative year that we received today, I quoted the new term that Dan Bill was talking about, the ORC program.
And that all the witnesses would like to see it pulled.
It was sent on August 25th and it could have been some letter from Dole.
And I've got the list here.
It went to Scott's home, Griffin's home, Allen's home, Dominick's home, Bennett's home, Young's home, and Javits' home, Falworth's home, Aaron's office, Anderson's home, Rose's home, Wilson's office, Smitty's home,
No office, unbelievable.
Staffers, you've got to call them on the phone.
I distributed it around, and I read it to the sons of bitches.
And I said, now, for God's sake, sir, you've got to go.
And when they've got to go, somebody has got to go down and read it to the conference.
Read the poll to the conference.
They send it to everybody else, too.
They send it to Democrats.
And it's being read to the conference.
And the difficulty with that one, Mr. President, is that it was during the recess.
The hard thing is that it hits the specific issues.
Right.
One by one.
And by God, it will trouble these guys to support us in the pay raise.
But I know we are.
Well, the difficulty with that is we've got leaders.
That's our problem.
A leader.
There were several pages in that poll.
And the question on the federal pay raise was on the last page.
But that's the way it was.
They all probably had this very...
The record sent me over a note.
Do you have any information, any indication of how heavy the...
the support is for the repeal of the exercise.
So that's why I think that's kind of important.
No, I think we've got to turn back on those guys.
That's one where McGregor ought now, and I'm talking about it, ought to call McGregor and say, look, God damn it, we sent you this stuff.
Then you come to this meeting, sit on your fat ass and say, do you have any information on it?
You've got the information on August 27th with a cover letter from Bob Dole.
Now, we've asked you over and over again how to get this stuff to you so you'll look at it.
It just...
They read it and then they forget it.
that they have in their reference thing.
I'm definitely not excited.
I'd be looking for material all the time, but I'm not excited.
I have never seen anybody, not my greater intentions, anybody else at any one of those meetings, not one of our leaders, one of our people ought to sit up, gee, Mr. President, here, did you know about that poll?
I shouldn't have to talk about the goddamn poll.
Well, on this one, I said, when this question came up yesterday, yeah, on the, on the, uh,
House, if you know, the congressional detail of your action on the federal pay raise, you know, the question of whether those can happen.
I wrote McGregor another memo, sent it to him yesterday morning, saying in your discussions on the Hill on the pay raise, you'll want to emphasize all the ORC polls you put out last August that showed that.
54 to 26.
I just got through talking to Tim and I was going to read this and have it read in the conference and we'll send another letter around with just that portion of the poll.
I don't think the attention span of these guys is great enough.
They read the headlines.
and toss it away, and they don't get out and re-analyze it.
These aren't very smart fighters.
They deal with all the silly man-tents of their own.
They just come in and pick the major issues, and then when they're in here, they get caught short, and so they ditch.
Oh, they didn't pitch by Miami.
No, they just didn't have it.
They sat there like assholes, instead of speaking up about it.
I mean, I just can't understand.
They weren't bitching particularly about the program and the rest of the day, but they weren't stepping up and saying, Jesus Christ, brother, you know, we're all wrong a little bit.
I just can't get anybody to leave in that goddamn place.
Well, they came out at least afterwards and made some good statements, which have started moving on the wires.
We got a little positive press reaction out of them outside at least.
One thing I was wondering, Chuck, is whether
But do you really feel we're hitting the, your people are hitting the, the musketing high ground?
I'm reading a news summary.
I mean, I know that the news summary, and our guy said Allen was pretty objective there.
He thought that both stories were very favorable to musketing.
the whole time, and those who said those would be more so.
A little less, so we mentioned one, what they had in there.
Well, now, my point is that the general problem, and it goes back to that quote we mentioned, that it can reduce, who they're going to put up there, if a goddamn president's going to pull us in on this.
Now, how do you do that?
The way you do that is just take them out.
You've got to have them sick of it.
But you must assume that
People are aware of the fact that he's... Well, Chuck came up with the... Maybe he's just talking about since we have an agenda meeting that the press is a total overboard for anybody that's against us.
That you can't do that.
Well, it is in the context that Chuck came up with the thought, which we have an interest to talk about, which I completely concur, that it's going to be hard as hell to do, but if we make the decision and start doing it, we can eventually get it done.
And that is to have cabin officers take over.
Tell Elliot Richardson to go back and kick the guy in the ass.
I talked to Elliott last evening about hitting Muskie on muscle.
Elliott at first said, oh God, I don't want to do that.
And then the more we talked about it...
I think you can.
Yeah, the more we talked about it...
The more one does, the more the next one will be willing to do.
And I got Elliott around.
I said, you know, we can try Rogers.
Rogers, one of the greatest secretaries.
He's never taken on a member of Congress.
Neither has Laird.
I think we can start working on it.
We can start embarrassing him.
We can get one guy to do it.
We can say, you know, Elliott did it.
What's the matter with you?
What kind of officer is he if he has something?
No.
No, we haven't got any bucket that's in there ripping them up.
No.
And it's the only one that's done it.
Even on the congressional stuff, when we write tough stuff and cut them up, they water it down, including Goldwater, who had a tough one on the muskie bottle up, and he made a statement that he watered it way down from what he was given.
His staff did it.
The way this can get started, Mr. President, well, to go back to time in Newsweek, I think Newsweek was favorable to Muskie.
I think Time was not favorable to him.
Well, it's all right.
They both repeated the blockade.
Don't, don't.
Just let me just say, I'll just get this one thing and then I'll forget it.
I remember in 1960 and 1968, Klein in the 60s, they were in the 60s, they kept telling me, well, the president's too bad.
I know he is.
I know he is.
I just know the president is against us, and I just don't want you or Bob to allow our oppressed people to mislead us here.
And, you know, of course, he can't be objective about the press.
He's four.
He's one of them.
But let's have no illusion.
Any person's got to remember that any press man, Chuck, is obviously got to indicate, well, let's not do that because he should.
He said he has a sense of failure if we don't get a good story.
You agree or not?
I do agree.
Yeah.
Oh, I don't think that's the factor.
God, we just have somebody that had the idea to stop a train or something.
Oh, we can't do that.
Well, I do think you're best.
I have no illusions.
We, uh, we hear, uh, Bob's, I think you've said it, or did Bob say it, we really look at it.
I mean, it's compared to even LBJ or anything.
The president said, well, LBJ or LBJ, it's not real.
No, hell no.
The advantage is open.
Is that who the hell we got?
Picture Lasky.
Right?
Bill White sometimes, one or two others occasionally.
Nobody should be under any illusion.
These guys are going to hurt us every opportunity they can.
Kai stuck the nasty wedge into your speech last week.
They just put the twist in a couple of sentences that looked at it very sarcastically.
And we're just going to have to explain all this.
You know, the times you come for evangelism and you're not an evangelist.
Well, and it's the muddled logic of the Labor Day speech.
Really?
Well, that's the sophisticate view, you see.
The work ethic is old-fashioned to the enemy.
That's not true.
That's not true.
They didn't even indicate or contact or react?
Yeah, they did.
They did, yeah.
They sure did.
Well, they all did.
And the networks all did.
But then, you know, they have to report it, except when one guy gets it, like Bill Gill did that day, and gets just completely off the track.
Thank God, hell, if you were in George Washington's time, you'd have no chance at all because then you'd have no television to force you to say what happened.
They'd say what they wanted to watch.
On that subject, I told you last night that the Democrats have not asked for equal time.
I spoke one day too soon and they asked for it this morning.
And they had asked for it on August 15th and had been turned down.
They've asked for it now to answer August 15th, the Labor Day radio address,
and your speech to the Congress last week.
Telegram came from Califano, has not specified who would speak, and the inclination of ABC is to turn it down.
I don't know what the other two will do.
I don't really, really am not too concerned, because they've got a hell of a problem looking partisan at a time like this.
Take them five days to make up their minds, I think.
They didn't come in with a reflex reaction.
The reason that I think that coverage of Muskie hurt him is that I have a deep belief that that black Vice President Lamarck will build
Senator Hollings jumped on it.
Hollings is the chairman of the Senatorial Campaign Committee.
And as such, he's identified as such in the quote.
He said that that was a terrible thing.
He said it was un-American and un-democratic.
Conyers, the black congressman from Michigan, has denounced it and has announced that because of it, he's going to start running a black candidate for president, Stokes.
The liberal columnists are now beginning to pick up the drumbeat.
You mean the men in Cleveland?
Yes.
Well, it's not a perfectionist.
I don't think you can change that.
Well, that's fine.
The liberal colonists are beginning to turn on him.
Braden really, really took him to task on it this morning at very... Black Vice President or Custer?
No, Black Vice President.
And on what grounds?
Well, on the grounds that he debated whether it was an honest answer or whether he had made a terrible goof.
Either way.
Yeah, Braden said if it was honest, his campaign staff are in a state of disarray over his honesty because he's really created the kind of a controversy that he can't win with.
Because if he's forced now because of this to take a black
as his candidate to prove that he isn't biased, then he's blown the election.
That's the other thing.
They'll probably ask me about it tomorrow, if I haven't.
It's about the schedule of the meeting, openly at the meeting of the governors, and say, the usual, the briefing time.
Do you understand?
Do you want to admit that?
We don't need to do that.
Or 430.
No, no.
With a purpose there, it's not to have a large number of people here.
See, that's what I mean.
Like, they had a leak.
Yeah, there was a leak before.
It could, but we haven't.
That may get people here to spend a lot of money.
Well, then 430, 434 is all right.
That's what it is.
It might give us a good cover.
Well, understand, Chuck, I think, I know how the hell he comes from, our work and everything, and I knew he distributed this, and I sat there with my mouth open, and I sat out for him, and Bull got it, and, you know, good God, it's just unbelievable.
I guess perhaps we ought to get up at the table, Bob, we ought to have some of that Tully son of a bitch from the staff up there who sits on him.
and says, what the Christ is the matter with you guys?
It was all sent to you, didn't you see?
That's what I just wish Clark would, you know, Clark could do it.
He could do it in a nice way, but a different way, and just say, Jesus Christ.
Well, we did the same crap with the cabinet.
Mr. President, you got a complaint from Volpe once before, and I went back to Volpe, and Trey stole the pieces of paper, and hell, he had them all in his office.
In a folder that he carries around in his briefcase.
Yeah.
As you can understand, if we'll get the briefcase out, we'll undo this.
Do you have the same as the briefcase?
Yeah.
Chad was at an interview today.
He said, we're the weakest on here.
He was arguing with him.
He said, this is the weakness of each song.
The weakness of each song.
My purpose, my failing to incredible people and the patriotism of the country and the patriotism of people who support our program.
He was talking about we should set up a community.
He was trying to curse you.
The Rotary has, you know, Judge Wolk is here.
A friend who headed the Rotary last year has sent 5,000 telegrams out to the Rotaries.
They were all starting local contact now.
Another thing they all have besides charging us enormous supports are getting a hell of a lot of mail and letters this week about this vote.
Now I want everybody to call, I want every one of those organizations to call the mayor to get them into the Democrats as well as Republicans.
Support the president.
Now, have you done anything before?
Oh, yes, we have, but we're awful.
None of these factories have received any of that in the mail yet.
I said, Richard, can we get some mail in?
I said, oh, hell, we've got that whole bunch, but haven't they got any mail on this?
Yes, and I, Mr. President, I met last week.
I don't want to come to trouble with this.
You'll take a look at your mail, or I guess there it is.
They'll wait until some staff back down and send me a form.
But the counting is running just like ours, and it's very heavy.
I had 50 of the top abortion lobbyists in last week, and then I met with them again this morning.
You've got 50 top abortion lobbyists.
Go ahead and write me.
No, no.
Would you have them write these members of Congress on this specific meeting?
And then after that, follow on the specific tax measure.
See, be very specific.
Now that's what they have to do, Chuck, not say support a man.
And then if you want to support the president, then women and others don't know any better.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
They are, I must say, agreed on much.
Bob Rosen's made a contribution.
He says, well, at least it's finished.
We have to lose it.
It's going to take across its time to think about America.
Poor old Bob.
He's really, frankly, just lost his odds.
I mean, in terms of, I don't know, in age, but the poor guy just ain't got it anymore.
Well, he hits the bottle awful hard.
He didn't.
Oh, that's a shame.
He has for quite some time.
When does he, when does he drink at night?
I've never seen him drunk in the daytime.
I don't see him at night.
Got it.
Oh, that's maybe the trouble Bob with when he's on those speeches.
He never slurs his words or anything.
And when he's public, his voice goes away.
Hmm?
His voice goes away.
It's his voice.
Yeah.
Maybe that's it.
Wouldn't he make this, he made a speech in the 70 campaign and he put himself in the wrong state?
Glad to be here in Alabama.
When you talk to these farmers, even the Farmers Organization and the rest, there is a hell of a lot of support here.
And the business groups, there's a lot of support.
These are all the intelligent people.
Was that Deschamps?
Deschamps?
He's a member of the Democratic Party.
I know.
I understand that.
Put it out.
Have it checked out for the city.
He may really want to be heard or something like that.
Well, he's written a couple of times and asked, and I've turned it down.
He's very close.
He may be close with an old man up there.
An old man, sir.
We'll check that out.
That'd be a marvelous affection.
He's got real fun.
Have it checked out.
See, I'll talk to him.
I'll talk to anybody.
But have it checked carefully.
Yes, sir.
And the idea that they like people who are looking for the front of the leadership, they don't help in the end, even if they don't like it at the moment.
And the thing repeats.
It comes back and back and back from all these people behind us.
So we've got some things going for us that I think would be very strong.
I really feel that it's a question really of getting our own supporters and Congress to realize it.
Congress can't realize that themselves.
Do you think the cabinet does?
The cabinet does.
If you talk to these folks, they're very up.
move is much better than it was.
I think, coming back to the point you raised, Bob, I think if we got Elliott or someone like that to really take one of these guys on, it might give the guys on the Hill a boost.
Well, basically, look, Ron didn't kick them, and both didn't kick them.
They're politicians.
Mitchell Bolton.
Of course, I can do code.
I can do code.
Well, I actually will if you want to.
That's the other question, which is one we wanted to do.
He has done a good job.
It's gone very well at the governor's conference.
The tone there was very good, much better than he thought it would be.
So it's clear that the partisan lines are drawn and have to be
but they realized that pick up something to a minute he said the story down there unless he's doing the dinner speech tonight and he said the story down there is that he's going to come out four bussing he says i've got ordered up a batch of candles i hope
He seems to think that he might.
So, go ahead and probably cater to his liberal restrictions.
He thinks he might be able to get back to his black head.
Jesus said it'd be a hell of a place to go.
Why did they build him?
Why did they build him?
It's sort of the same kind of thing that they had with, do you remember the puff pieces on Romney?
Christ Almighty, you know, he was going to wail.
He started a campaign and a handshake and all that.
It's dumb as hell.
Maybe you never knew it in the cross, did you?
And if you're starting to get some of it, it must be the right thing.
It may not be the main point that you're getting, but it must be a positive attitude.
movie, .
Jesus Christ.
He'd make a speech like that to the connoisseur that I made out there in Chicago with the rest, you know, and they'd be in ecstasy.
Orgasms.
We practically have to be the second coming to get even a half-assed for us.
That's what Connie said yesterday.
You've got to do a superlative performance to get an adequate review.
Well, yeah.
There is a real comparison between Muskie and Romney.
You think there is?
Yes, sir.
Well, they're drawing a press.
And the press is drawing it constantly.
And they're talking very much about his black tie shirt as being his brainwash.
His brainwash.
They're all saying that.
Like, what's the thing that made that point?
That Romney was being honest when he said he was brainwashed.
But was it a very smart thing to say, I don't know?
Yeah.
Romney would have.
How about his statement?
You don't deal with race or religion or have sex as any part of your own political, well, personal political qualification.
No, I can just say I covered that in all of my campaigns.
Actually, my record is very clear on that.
I disagree with that position.
I'm not going to comment on the current political situation, but I think it's, no, I don't disagree with that, because I don't comment on the current political situation, but my public record is so clear on that, my campaigns in 60 and 68, selecting people for positions, putting people on the basis of their qualifications, and I believe that in the United States,
that any suggestion that the American people are going to vote their prejudices rather than vote the qualities of man is, frankly, a libel on the American people.
I think that's a marvelous phrase.
It's a libel on the American people.
God, that will help build this thing up.
Monty did a hell of a job.
I think the president must see him on that.
Yeah, doesn't he ride a cart, too?
He doesn't.
What's the sign?
Well, it's a sign.
Vice President wanted Whites only on the door.
Whites only.
Vice President wanted Whites only in the block.
Yeah.
And then it shows a little muskie.
It's an allotment type curtain.
It shows a muskie standing in front of a black man in front of him.
He says, you go away and come back some other time, boy.
It really is.
And he would just say that...
Maybe things will change.
Maybe the debate is a healthy thing because it will change and make it possible.
But that wants him to the point where he doesn't think.
I think that would be a superior thing.
Well, I guess it's a thing they can ask him every time.
I hope that's changed enough by now that you're going to be in the block.
Well, Bob Brown has some friends who are going to have songs around at Muskie Rally Stokes, the vice president, which raises the problem.
I will tell the blacks to go ahead with the black president campaign.
All right.
In fact, Buchanan has come in with a suggestion that may make a lot of sense, which is that he says, if we're going to spend $50 million in this campaign, 10% of it, $5 million, ought to be devoted to financing a black party.
Shirley Chisholm and Julian, what do you think of a black soldier or a black party?
It's not blood and blood.
Especially, just to show that the Democratic Party has no one.
That would be the line.
But Pat's point is, we've got to get a viable candidate, only if they get a viable candidate.
But if they've got a Julian Bond, well, let me suggest this.
We might not buy it, but the dollars for finance would be McCarthy.
Well, that's hard.
Stein's working on that.
There's a good story with the little twit in the U.S. Newsweek or something.
Stein has outlined the McCarthy plan.
which is that he is not going to enter the primaries, but he's going to do a major speaking tour next year and will go to the Democratic Convention as the people's candidate.
If, as is expected, he's rejected by the convention, he will then go to the fourth party.
The problem is that it's too late then to go to a ballot for a fourth party.
It takes time to get a fourth party to qualify a ballot on a candidate.
Remember how Wallace did his super job.
That's why the black party, if you're going to do it, you've got to get started on it pretty soon so they can get qualified on the RIPOC, which put that down for a discussion, not for a discussion, but for action.
The man is incredibly bold to McCartney and to the black thing.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
It's a hell of a lot better use of money than a lot of other things.
because we don't need the television cameras.
Now actually, let me say, raise these points.
We are doing infinitely better, infinitely better at fighting the trust battle law than we were at the beginning of this administration.
And one of the reasons we're doing infinitely better is that we recognize the problem.
Correct.
We ought to recognize that.
We've found some ways to deal with it.
The thing we did previously that was wrong is to try to leave it to the press office to handle it.
That is the wrong place.
You've got to put a ballot in there.
You can't expect the press office to fight a gun like that.
Only on clear factual errors.
That's correct.
On clear factual errors, it's a lot better than saying that we stand good and tough.
Don't you agree?
Yes, sir.
We've got the Democratic National Committees, the editor of their comfortable publication.
to ask him, but the Vice President, I think he agreed with Lussie and he didn't even ask him.
That's the, that's the tougher question.
That's the tougher question that you might be asked, Mr. President.
Do you think the country would elect a black Vice President?
Do you think the country would elect a candidate who had a black man on the ticket?
I'd suggest they were qualified.
That's, that's...
Your, your line of attorney is still the best thing that any implication of the American people have ever made.
You heard from the better man because of his colors.
I mean, there's a lot more.
There's a lot more in the American people.
That's a great phrase.
You're perfectly safe.
They'll never come up with a qualified black free government.
Except for maybe straight to campaign.
I'm being dishonest, that's why I haven't asked for a chance.
In terms of, I've always taken that position.
It's better to stay out of it.
Just let it center.
I would.
No, you would say I have no intention of commenting on anybody's political statements, but my record is clear and goes back many years.
My position is, as it always is,
I think I'm going to go up there, Mr. President, and scoop it up off their desks and take it in and show it to them because we did a check on it.
We did a check with 25 offices and they were, I guess more than that before we get through, the mail was running
Much heavier after August 15th.
We hadn't gotten the breakdown of pros and cons, and we still don't have that, but we assume it's about the same as ours.
It normally is.
But the volume was so bad that a lot of the members were complaining that they weren't going to be able to answer all the mail that had come in after August 15th.
And just one example, Phillips put coupons in the newspaper.
If we got 4,000 from here, they would have been addressed to congressmen.
And to you, they rent beds both ways.
Yes, sir.
And they, just from one little area in Oklahoma, 4,000.
You know damn well those offices are being deluged.
This morning when I met with this group, they said that a number of the members, Jack Miller, for example, was complaining, we're putting too much pressure on them.
They're hearing from everybody with all the heat to come back home.
That's it.
Can't you get us some mail?
Yeah, no, Jack Miller's complaining about it.
I've put a lot of people on him because he's a key guy, and he's complained.
He said, well, I won't support the investment tax credit if I continue to be pressured because I know more about tax law than anybody else in the United States.
I think we ought to take a bit of time and see if we can have a long chart with him.
About 30 hours in the air.
He can tell you what the real meaning of the devil is.
He considers himself to be a hell of a man.
He doesn't know a lot about it.
Jesus Christ.
He can always tell you.
I don't know if he knows.
He doesn't.
I will say that the mail thus far has not focused on the pay question because that really hasn't become a public issue.
But it is a congressional issue.
But it's a congressional issue.
And the damn federal employees union type people will crack up the other thing.
I don't know how you would get on the pay question.
The Chamber of Commerce is great on that.
They worked with us before on that.
They have a mechanism now to really move fast and they can turn up
a good volume of mail in all these offices.
We'll set that going right away.
There are three or four outfits that have been sent.
Why didn't the people, should the people of the Democratic...
I think the line of attack, they have not been able to crystallize up until now.
They are developing at the governance conference.
And this is the first time that I've seen a concerted Democratic approach.
They're talking about scaling the investment tax credit down to 7%.
Increasing the individual income.
April.
April, I'm sorry.
No, no business doesn't do any good.
It just pours a lot of money away and it doesn't encourage anything new.
No, no, no, that's not great.
That's not your stupidity.
They have to do it on August 15th.
Well, it has to be August 15th.
And they're talking about increasing the individual exemptions.
That's where they're... And they'll probably do that.
There'll be a giveaway.
You'll have to go along with it.
They bust a lot of money and do no good.
Then they want to freeze or they want controls on profits and dividends as well.
Over crisis.
How do they do that?
Unless they've got to talk that, they'll never figure out a way of doing it.
No, but that has to be their demagogic line.
That makes sense.
They do have to talk that.
That is a good line from their viewpoint.
Politically, it is.
Your decision.
Let me say the unsayable.
Profits are good for the working class.
And when 100 million Americans directly or indirectly receive dividends,
profits that we invested today.
And we have a good plan.
And more than half of the profits of our corporation go to the government to provide us with the opportunity to do what we're doing.
And he said if profits this year were at the level of people that let me say they haven't said anything.
If profits were this year were what they were in the 60s or something like that, that we'd have $11 billion more in federal revenue to spend on the things you want to do for people on the floor.
He's right.
Well, I get back to the fundamental point that right now, the economy is, I think it's going to move.
But I think the, and frankly, it's going to move among folks more than among the business that you can reflect on at a later point.
But my point is that
Apart from that, the thing we want to keep out of this whole sprawl of wax is the feeling of leadership, national unity, and all that sort of thing, which we got out of the Mayhem speech.
You know what I mean?
The two speeches, right?
That's still there.
I mean, that is still there.
And I think we'll go back to that one.
Well, it was yesterday.
It didn't happen here in the audience.
The little Labor Day speech has the same feeling of national unity.
Christ, people agree with that.
But you need some emphasis on that.
Strongly.
He's still trying to get people to see his quote today.
It's naturally 75% of the people supported the president.
He finally got off his butt and did something.
I don't think people like that.
I just have a feeling they ain't.
But I think that was a little bit too rough.
Yeah, that's undignified.
You shouldn't say that about the president.
That's like the stuntman.
That remark hurt him.
And it sounds, too, like George Manning is an uncouth labor leader.
And most people don't like uncouth labor leaders.
It's a little bit overkill.
He doesn't have to go that far into it.
Well, he's going to clear the phrase that will make a headline.
He just gets carried away with himself.
But Mr. President, whatever lines of attack the Democrats take and whatever modifications, as hard as they try to hang their own label on anything that comes out of the Congress, they never can do it.
This is your program.
And out in the sticks of the country, the people
Whatever comes out now, in terms of the Congress, whatever they pass, and the results, it's yours.
I mean, you've stated out in a way that these governors are pitiful, trying to caulk us to come up with a program that they're on.
We are supposed to adhere that every day when we lose a round on the Hill, we think, my God, the public image changes.
It doesn't change anything.
I know, even though also we have to realize a little bit about the growth of Congress.
when it comes to shattering the hallway and the rest of it.
On the other hand, we get a few of our belts into it.
That's similar, guys.
At least we do better than we did, I think.
Do you agree, Bob, or not?
We did an analysis, I don't know whether you showed it at the present, of television appearances since August 15th.
Talk shows, studio shows.
We're out of score again.
Three to one, now that used to be about even.
It used to go up.
If we were lucky after Cambodia, we were really taking a beating.
If we worked hard, we could get up to even.
Yeah, but now we're running very steadily three to one, and we're at the point, this is what you were talking about earlier with the subtle pressures, we're at the point where Cabot had someone on last week who attacked us on welfare, and immediately ABC called and said, who would you like to have come on and answer?
So we're going to get Pat Moynihan to commit, if we can get him.
But the shows are getting very sensitive to this.
And as a result, the number of times we get our people out there is very good.
What did I say when I made this progression?
Just the old story.
This is Pat Moynihan.
It's a sad circumstance.
I really don't think we should meet with the leaders.
I really don't.
It's just a waste of my time.
And theirs.
They said they're malleable.
They gave reasons.
There's a lot they have done for their bloody personal self-sacrifice.
I don't personally agree with that.
You don't really give any budget to say that?
No.
What would you like to say?
They think it ought to be a promise.
Basically.
But I just...
Well, the value, the value is the essence of the meeting, I know.
No, but they go back up to the Hill of Expression, and their colleagues all are impressed with the fact that they've been here, and that gives them, that gives them clarity.
I found an interesting thing this time later.
I found one of the leaders that they all supported Rockefeller.
What do you think?
Really enchanting.
Jeff made a statement.
He made a statement.
He made a statement quoting you.
Probably did.
Uh, Scott.
Yeah.
Well, Rock, Rock Miller, uh, said that he had been in touch with you twice yesterday, last month, and that you were, so.
That's right.
Okay, support.
I want to be on it.
You see, I don't believe in coming out late on things like this.
Like, you're not right.
We did, we waited on one.
The demonstration thing, remember, I said, like, I don't have confidence in it.
The last...
But you called the cop before it even started.
I said, you're peaking.
Line up your troops.
I said, okay, fight across.
And I got a big one.
They thought they were hanging you on time.
They thought you had done the wrong thing.
This is a tough one.
But the way I look at it, this is what I feel is hard.
I feel one man's hand is longer than the other.
rather than running away on our ways, is to read the columns and read the polls and see whether he did it right or wrong.
If he did the best he could, there's certain chances that you support him, and I support what he did.
Some of them get a part of it, I think.
Scott handled it very well.
He said that he expressed your feelings, and then he said that the 19 Republican lawmakers present unanimously supported the action of Governor Rappaport.
So that's a good positive.
The rest of the Black House will vote.
Let me tell you about the black people, as far as I'm concerned.
Black Muslims, apparently, were acting very instructively in this time.
Are they?
In the prison ground?
Oh, we had black Muslims.
It was the black Muslims who saved some of the guards.
It was the Black Panthers who were, as I know about them, way down in the elevator.
This one black woman, she was here.
I said, I was afraid of guns.
Terrible people.
She says, well, he says, I don't think the government had any other choice.
Boom, he's black.
They're law-abiding people.
I don't think the government has any other choice.
I can't imagine that the decent blacks really want to be associated with the violent black scene, or the decent whites want to be associated with the violent whites.
Oh, they don't.
They don't.
And that must bother them just as... You know, Elliot Richards is a real collection of...
I don't know what the hell it's for.
Any of the hosts are supposed to get people all stirred up about supporting preventive medicine, but it's another commission report.
i've got to watch this tell her for christ's sakes warning flag every time i have quite a bit just like i think that's what we need to do is i just you know i just heard every sign from them things and i don't think that i think they're in and out but you look for ways to get your citizens involved and it's amazing how big people that's how people do it you know did you see from this group here for how it was in there they had a power
It was a tremendous room.
And that gets in the thinking.
People said that I could go in there and spend 15 minutes.
I grew ridiculous.
I spent 30 minutes.
I had to.
I couldn't have it.
I'm the president of the White House.
What about having to pay for the grades?
You're the biggest insurance company.
Blue Cross Blue Shield, they have a couple of universities.
Those people, business type people on those Blue Cross types and universities on it, really don't have a hell of a lot to do.
And it's a very big deal for them to say to their board of directors, I can't be at the meeting on Monday, I have to go to the White House or the National, and then go back and say they have it.
Anyway, and I think it's safe, and he got this panhandle.
Not that I've ever seen him, he's dead.
What do you think?
He absolutely should.
You shouldn't do all that stuff.
There's no reason.
You know why?
I'm serious.
Do you remember B.P.
Grover Whelan, the official reader of New York?
The mayor didn't go read him.
Grover Whelan went to New York.
The mayor who owned a very special business, sir.
I truly think that he ought to do more of this.
I don't know how much he's doing for Bob.
Now, he's in our head, and he'd do it until it ran out of him.
Goddamn cotton-picking haters.
He'd just do a lot.
He's pretty finicky about what he does.
Jesus told him.
But if he's told to, he'll do it, you know?
Well, okay, okay, let me go over here.
I just want to start a prayer with you.
I wonder, I, when I saw the body of the heir at the house yesterday,
But he may have known.
He says, what does that pole show?
Yeah, so maybe he knew he had the pole, but couldn't remember what the figure was.
Yeah.
I talked to Henry a little last night about the POWYs.
And he raises a question about the POWYs.
I don't know.
I don't know about that either.
The question is whether that group is political.
Whether they start becoming a political action unit, which up to now they have not done.
Well, I don't know.
And so therefore, if I go, that may stop them.
Well, that's the argument.
I think we've got to weigh that.
See, I don't know.
I don't know why that would stop it, necessarily.
I'm not sure that it shows the presidential concerns, but it might not stop them, it might.
I'll have to see with the 26th Committee before their convention begins or something instead.
Well, what is happening, from your point of view, is my guess is that there's a group of, like, a part of the group that is trying to organize them.
Again, no question political, correct?
That's right.
Very strong effort because they know that they've got some population potential.
Christ, I mean, Henry's not good at hunting.
Does Hughes know anything about this group?
Yeah.
This is one of the groups, he's saying.
Well, Jim, I'm willing to be able to do whatever is the right thing that would be most helpful.
If I could go and talk to them now, that is going to have a lot to say.
Yes, I should have an appearance in Florida.
I don't know where, but on the way down sometimes, particularly, to pop into something, it's just a damn good idea.
I know one time I could stop and do, you know, stop at Jacksonville and get a little, you know, move out there near Fort Graham again.
But I was going to say another thing, is that I don't think we can go this weekend.
The weather outlook is hot, high 80s.
afternoon, thunder showers, sunny in the morning, so it's...
Yes, I talked to Don about it, and he says, I missed these right after talking to him, that coffee is, A, coffee is not up to the job, because, B, that, uh, you know, coffee's supposed to leave to go to school, you know, next August, and, uh,
John says that if you're concerned about continuity, he would, there's no question in mind, he would prefer to stay on himself.
There's a huge managerial job there.
And he's got over a thousand
And he just says coffee can't handle it.
He says the guy who's got it can.
Why do you have to play with the guy who's got it?
He also makes the flag out of the magical waters.
Well, that's exactly it.
He makes the point that, just as with Don, you don't see Don much.
He doesn't serve as you.
And this man wouldn't either.
This man would be the guy that runs the unit.
And see, he changed that whole structure.
He had one-third the number of people that Eisenhower had.
in the AIDS office, because Eisenhower had three separate AIDS offices.
He had an Army aide, an ABA, and an Air Force aide, and they competed with each other, and there was no coordination between them.
Now, Don runs the whole thing.
He pulled it all together.
It's a real breakthrough.
He's done a hell of a good job of putting it all under one base so there isn't any competition for who can do the most for you, but rather a thing of, you know, how with the least effort can we get everything done that should be done.
And he's gotten rid of a lot of excess helicopter units and, you know, a lot of just time-wasting stand-bys.
And he says what you need is a guy that's more senior than Coffey, who can run that kind of event, who really doesn't have to do certain running.
He doesn't pump those, you know, it's a personal thing.
And then you use the junior guys as that.
Why?
The regulator has the idea.
I'm not supposed to get a report.
Well, ostensibly, they, you know, will fill you in on their, their, uh, icing.
Okay, we're good.
It's their problem.
And then you told Rose, apparently, that you wanted to see Charlie Ryan as a result of his trip.
Rose told you about his meeting with Tito.
She said you'd love to travel.
And he wants to come in and talk about his trip.
He'd like to.
And also, we've given him a commission.
He's sending the U.S. delegation to the United Nations refugee camp in Geneva.
And he gets the rank a little faster.
We've finally done something.
We've given Eli Ryan to do the outreach and all that.
So we've given him a little...
It's been hard.
You know, this is how it's been.
But, you know, we're getting ready to go.
And the other one Henry wanted you to see was Admiral Duncan, who's Commander of the Navy.
Why?
Because he has a series of NATO meetings starting next week.
No, I don't think that's necessary.
And, let's see, Raj knows that he considers it essential that the Europeans perceive that the President is concerned about the Atlantic, and so it's just accurate.
No, I am.
It's just accurate.
I am, I am, but I just don't think that I can see it.
I don't even see it in George's, and I just don't want to do this.
I didn't know how to do it.
I didn't see the gun case.
I didn't know how to do it.
I went over there and I didn't know how to prove my concern.
I don't have to prove it again.
I didn't see that at all.
Why did the gunman ask to come in?
He couldn't.
He couldn't.
He was not a man.
He was a co-op.
A co-op citizen is a citizen.
Now, in this regard, he noticed that suggestive of this expression of interest might be attractive.
He's done a better suggestion in direct voices than I have.
I think if one does, you know, I'm actually shocked.
I see how I can't attend or I can't answer.
I think, too, because of God's makes it difficult for you to explain.
In regard to your dining out tonight at the Washington Hotel, you've got to be sure that you're doing that.
I think it's the same thing.
It's like an invitation.
It's 6.30, sir.
No.
They no longer do not regularly serve dinner out on the paddock.
The water got there.
There's a restroom inside where they serve dinner.
However, I'm sure that they would serve outside.
There's no problem.
I told her that, and she thought that I should bring that to your attention.
What did she want to do with you guys?
I asked her, she said, well, hell, you want to sit on the beach.
So maybe, I don't know, I do a little burger check, you know, the rest of the check good.
Because I have been every year.
And just got her, you know, she'd be fine.
Maybe there's a better place to go, you see.
All right.
I'll see you later.
Morning, Tom.
I'll see you later.
That's a great question.