Nixon, Kemp & Haig on Vietnam War and Vietnamization

2:54:52Is there time to do the re-voting?
2:55:03I'm not sure that it's a good idea.
2:55:10Maybe just to let them do it.
2:55:14Okay.
2:55:16Well, out of your own comfort, sit down, sit down.
2:55:19Yeah, you were awesome.
2:55:20Out in, uh, out in, uh, I heard that you, uh, found the, uh, the, uh,
2:55:34Now, while Father Maynard, who was my attorney, said this and got off the helicopter, he managed it.
2:55:38So I was wrong.
2:55:39See, when I took McCroskey out of the helicopter, everybody was lined right up waiting for us.
2:55:43But people were basically very shy and tired, because we had a lot of people.
2:55:46And I draw them out, and I tell them, hey, we've got 25 conversations.
2:55:55that 100% believe that they own everything.
2:55:58They know, you know, what it's going to be doing for them.
2:56:01And there's really political silence.
2:56:03You have to sit down, really, and say, oh, to a man, you know, I want to go back.
2:56:08And I say, if the war's over tomorrow, if peace comes, would you go back to the village and go, oh, well, if that's allowed, you know, it's going to be easy to, you know, from old ladies to young boys, you know.
2:56:20And I assume, you know, I really believe there's a subjective and, you know, kind of a,
2:56:25a few of them were arguing with her, because I've been trying to argue with her actually, and I didn't, you know, just subject her to any reference emotionally.
2:56:31But her plan is setting up a speech intervention in two weeks, and I'm going to go after her.
2:56:35I told the general that I went up to him on the floor yesterday, and I said I was very disappointed with him.
2:56:45He said, why's that?
2:56:45I said, well, a lot of the things you said just didn't bear out, and now he really isn't upset.
2:56:54Well, you know,
2:57:06terrible reflection on the guy when he'd go out and deliberately lie.
2:57:12We understand.
2:57:12In other words, lie hurts the country.
2:57:15It hurts the country.
2:57:17I mean, these guys, you know, I've met a few people over there who have turned back again to save this poor, miserable country.
2:57:23And this is for, as you say, shy, perturbed people.
2:57:28And so what happens?
2:57:33I asked the leaders of all the villages there, I said,
2:57:48Have you ever heard of a refugee going to the north of the United States with a baton in his mouth?
2:57:51The other way, he says, no, I've never heard of anybody other than those who were forced to, who have gone north of the United States.
2:57:58All the refugees that come into the south, in Cambodia or India, often come to the south of the United States.
2:58:03So it's pretty obvious that he, as I said before, he's arguing with some of us on such an irrational and emotional point that
2:58:15uh... uh...
2:58:27I went into, I had dinner with Ambassador Bunker and General Abrams, and I just got back from my career and I was really impressed with their effort.
2:58:35I was there in 68 with the NFL football team, with Bart Starr and Alex Hallworth, and, you know, I was very intent offensive, and the situation then, of course, was very insecure.
2:58:45And today, you know, in Jeff's position, it's a fantastic improvement.
2:58:48And I just got back, I was all charged up, and talking about the magnificent effort that was being made, and the Ambassador asked me,
2:58:54And they were very, they just met with two about four o'clock in the afternoon and everybody was on edge.
2:58:59They bought out the jet camp and they were scared to death.
2:59:02I came in there and started talking about the presidential elections in Saigon and basically what I did, I said, what's your reaction?
2:59:07And I said, well, gee, it's a magnificent effort and now we've got to get busy.
2:59:10And I was talking about you.
2:59:11I said, we've got to get the presidential election so we can finish the job over here.
2:59:15And they were talking about President Two and I'm telling you the whole place is set up and all the, but you're, I said, I don't mean that.
2:59:21I mean the other one.
2:59:24I agree with your statement today.
2:59:32To allow an unfortunate turn of events to deter us from our stated objective would be...
2:59:44What a murderous young church.
2:59:46Now, the way to get out is not to murder.
2:59:48You know, rotation, too.
2:59:50Uh, by having others, too.
2:59:53Uh, something is...
2:59:55What standard are we requesting in Vietnam?
2:59:58Well, we think they should have American-style democracy.
3:00:01We didn't have it for 110 years or 150, the greatest of 500 years.
3:00:07If we were to cut off aid to countries that do not have, whose leaders are in office as a result of a non-contested election, if we were to cut off aid to all countries,
3:00:21And yet their leaders did not win as a result of a contested election that we would consider fair.
3:00:26We had to cut off eight and two-thirds of the countries in the world in the 91 we're aiding today.
3:00:31Now, as far as we and others are concerned, what have they done?
3:00:34They haven't had an election in two lives, but some elections better than none, and spurred and sacked on a congressional
3:00:40the congressional side, a third of all of those who ran were opponents of Cuba.
3:00:44And some of them claimed it was not, they couldn't win because it was unfair, so they're in.
3:00:49And Cuba at least has provided for a referendum.
3:00:51Now we prefer, if they had an election, we prefer it to be another way, but we cannot expect it to grow full of all, and we're not gonna give up on this effort because it's a political moment.
3:01:02So I can play it very hard and very tough.
3:01:05We cut it off, Jack.
3:01:06We got to cut off all those damn animals.
3:01:11Yeah.
3:01:11That's right.
3:01:22Well, this is going to interject a little bit.
3:01:24Well, he's right.
3:01:26But here's the gutter.
3:01:27Walking down the street in Saigon, I can guarantee you there was no way he would have been shopping in Saigon two years ago.
3:01:32Two years ago.
3:01:33Period.
3:01:33Two shopping vans.
3:01:34See that picture on the front page?
3:01:35He'd been out shopping in Saigon.
3:01:37And I was there as a kid, and there was no way he would have been a shopping van.
3:01:40And he says, and he turns around hypocritically and says, the information does not work.
3:01:45Well, those people are farming, and they are, there's commerce, and there's growth, and they're building, and they wouldn't be building if there was such insecurity, as he says.
3:01:52The atomization has a purpose, too, in the shop.
3:01:56Yeah, too, talking back, walking down the streets of Saigon, and you turn around and say, the atomization has worked.
3:02:04Well, listen, I appreciate your time.
3:02:05I just, the, um...
3:02:08We're going to go up there and I think we're going to do a good job of the church on him.
3:02:13I am far out on that land again.
3:02:16I'm glad to be here.
3:02:17I believe in it.
3:02:17I think it's a magnificent effort and I really want to be a part of it.
3:02:24I am told that my district is a 70% Catholic.
3:02:29Highest percentage of Catholics are white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, and my other district is another part of the district is Jewish.
3:02:37So I'm here to tell you how important it is to sell jets and to save the parochial schools.
3:02:46I don't know what I just heard you say, I think you already did.
3:02:49The first president never did a damn thing about it.
3:02:52And 9-4 has crossed all the way, for God's sake.
3:02:54I have about five million American kids on the public schools.
3:02:57It costs an initial amount of four and a half million dollars in new money to build schools and facilities to take care of the five million kids that are in primary schools.
3:03:09And it costs four and a half million dollars a year to keep them in there.
3:03:12So I believe that just looking at it from a pure monetary standpoint, part of it, and another good thing is that it's to the interest to keep these schools open.
3:03:20We're going to try to help everybody we can.
3:03:22Having in mind, in fact, the Supreme Court has made it very difficult for us to do it, but we're working on it.
3:03:26We're working on it.
3:03:27We've done a lot.
3:03:52One thing you could do in talking to the conservatives, they raged about it, they said it was suspending because of national offense.
3:04:00Jack, look, who the hell is fighting the national offense?
3:04:03I fought for ABM one by one the whole time.
3:04:05I'm fighting the bastards in the draft.
3:04:07They want to get rid of the draft.
3:04:09They get rid of the draft.
3:04:09America's number two in the world today.
3:04:12And also they get rid of the draft.
3:04:14All of our peace initiatives with the Russians and the Chinese are down to two.
3:04:19That's what happens.
3:04:20You cannot negotiate from weakness.
3:04:22Now, I don't get rid of the draft sometimes.
3:04:23I mean, if people want to talk about the computer and all that sort of thing.
3:04:27But right now, we can't listen at the time.
3:04:30With your Jewish friends, actually, you've got to play that role.
3:04:33And you should take a further outline than I can go, President Jacobs.
3:04:38I've got to keep pressure on them to make them try to negotiate something.
3:04:42You should say we can't.
3:04:43maintaining that Israel is the most democratic government in the area, that it stood up against the Russians, that they are our friends, that maintain Israel's strength, that the President just said that the balance of power in the area must be maintained, and that therefore you consider just for Israel to be the
3:05:09But in all my speeches, I also quote you.
3:05:12But I'll tell you, you should go further.
3:05:14I have.
3:05:14Go right out there.
3:05:15I have.
3:05:15Stick it right out there and say, I'm for it all the way.
3:05:19Yeah.
3:05:19I guess they're interested in that, some people.
3:05:23Yeah.
3:05:24They're like gentlemen.
3:05:25They don't care where you go, any other issue, you know.
3:05:28But just so you're clear, Israel, and I got a big award for the day, Britain, the other night, and my recording record has been, you know, all the way.
3:05:36Well.
3:05:37But, um,
3:07:04I was thinking maybe you could go out and help the Redskins out there.
3:07:09No, you're not that far out.
3:07:11Maybe you could go to Kilmer and help the Redskins.
3:07:15And Kilmer Crowe?
3:07:15He's not a thrower like Sonny, but he's a tough little competitor.
3:07:18Is he?
3:07:18Yes, sir.
3:07:19Where did he play before?
3:07:21He stayed away.
3:07:22Then he went to New Orleans.
3:07:24Yeah, he was a killer.
3:07:26He stayed away.
3:07:27Yeah, and then he went to New Orleans.
3:07:30You never know.
3:07:31Everybody thought the Vikings would go to pieces when they lost their quarterback.
3:07:38And they didn't.
3:07:39They were so great.
3:07:41Quarterback is indispensable to you.
3:07:44The pills are really bad because they sent me to Washington.
3:07:46I told them.
3:07:46They didn't want them.
3:07:46Who was their quarterback?
3:07:47They had a dentist job in San Diego State.
3:07:48Oh, yeah.
3:07:48Yeah, we had him from the Packers, didn't we?
3:07:49No.
3:07:49Who was the one that was there?
3:07:50Horne was in the Packers.
3:07:51Horne.
3:07:51He's always around here.
3:07:51He's the doctor in the hospital.
3:07:52Yeah, I met Shell.
3:07:53Shell was in San Diego State.
3:07:53And it was the first time I got to his last year.
3:07:54He's done real well for the Bulls.
3:08:12I do not really appreciate your support.
3:08:16And you know, as far as I have my patience in being part of the mission, on the 120th anniversary of the Diocese of Montmorency, you know, we're far down the road.
3:08:29And we have a cardinal coming to the mission.
3:08:33We want you to come up there.
3:08:36Can I ask you something that's a little bit stronger?
3:08:42The 125th anniversary of what this is going to be in April of next year.
3:08:51I'll send you the bill tomorrow.
3:08:57Anyway, I'll tell you who you should talk to, Jack.
3:09:02You know, Dwight Chapin.
3:09:04He's got all those, all the listening in that April of next year might be impossible at the time.
3:09:10All right, get going.
3:09:12Get soft, all right?
3:09:16All right.

Nixon, Kemp & Haig on Vietnam War and Vietnamization

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on September 17, 1971

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