Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on 1972 Presidential Election and George Wallace

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at the end of the council meeting that said that he'd been thinking, he'd been flying all night from Minnesota.

Oh, no, he's gone.

But he'd been thinking that with the minor stir on the Hickler book and everything, that he wanted to give up my thought as to whether it would be a good idea for him to write a book.

He was saying,

He said, I believe so deeply in this man and what he's doing right.

He said, there's a hell of a lot of things I can't say as a captain officer, but that I could sure say as a citizen.

But also about service in the Nixon cabin.

He said, of course, I need some help.

I can't write well myself, but I think it's a good idea.

And we get somebody who writes fast, and he could write it.

It's a chance to get a lot of the personal stuff in.

It's a good chance to get a chance to go.

Yeah.

No.

It might be that it'd be better if he wanted to do a long article rather than a book, because he may not have a book's worth to write.

He writes a book, he's going to get all bogged down.

I guess that's his kind of stuff.

as Hickel does, and that's what kills Hickelson, really.

If Hickel had done an article, he could have been pretty tough.

And all this crap, you know, that Congressman Rogers, Zion of Indiana, the rest of it gets lost in the midst of the crowd.

I don't know, sometimes we all would have a...

He wrote a character book, too, but he's never wrote a big, thick book.

I don't know.

hickle stuff and such full of crap, you know, and here's a guy that's inside of the cabinet, he's a decent man, he's a PhD, and, you know, and they're highly respected and considered to be totally honest.

Well, and he's in a unique position.

He's the first Secretary of Agriculture in a long time that's left not under voucher or under antagonist.

So did you see that there was some crap from some guy in Cleveland that said that the Secret Service and the Air Force got everybody away?

Yeah, somebody out there got to go on a story.

That was in an Air Force base, and the base went through their usual security precautions on who they let in.

And this reporter got enough time to go to the hell of a...

We don't control the grounds, you know what I mean?

And all these other things.

But maybe it was there, being an Air Force base versus, I don't know, could you?

Well, no, they can't hack our thing is the way to answer it, of course.

Those are people on the streets who scream then.

Anybody wants to?

Oh, well, maybe it's not worth it.

Yep.

It's not a guy that covers us, apparently.

It's a local guy who decided to come down here and make a stir out of it.

It just ran in the local pay.

That's been picked up.

The New Republic had basically the same kind of a thing.

This guy may have been shipped up by the Jews.

It's one of the laments on the left, I suppose.

They're going to say something that I'm going out and not allow the people that are against me to be out, but the rest of them aren't going to be killed.

That's the other side of it, of course.

And they ought to read this flat item.

It's a very small letter to the editor.

I ought to go to the Cleveland paper pointing out how many places I've gone.

I've had crowds and so forth.

The Johnson's back down in the White House.

Don't you think it was a good chance to make that point?

Yeah.

And have it made by whom?

Somebody that's not Ziegler, of course, or Ehrman, or you know what I mean, that type of White House man.

Somebody else.

Who could do it?

Well, I'll give them a name.

I'll get a car.

I have an idea to keep that part of the record straight, you see.

It's imperative to keep it straight, because there are little blunders all the time where they, well, you must have left their head up in the sun, where we have something awfully good taste, that's my point, sir.

Christ Almighty, that's what we do when I go out there.

Even in passing, you know, they should be sure that people who have rights, we, we own control of these goddamn crowds.

And, uh, we do have some seeking things, and I don't think we should deny it on some of those that in a... Oh, you're saying it's a security requirement?

How will they kill one president and one presidential candidate?

And they, this, the New Republic story actually played it that way.

They, they...

What did they keep up with?

There was a demonstrator group that they knew was coming.

They had an advanced intelligence plan.

It was a group of hippie types and they kept it up.

When the group arrived they had signs and beards and all that kind of stuff and they wouldn't let them in.

And we've done that at one point.

Well, come to think about it, maybe we should do that.

At one point, we should.

At that sort of event.

What the hell?

The point is, the people that are there, are we trying to let them not disrupt the meeting?

No, I think we ought to say yes to that.

But I think the crowds on the streets, the crowds on the streets, that's the only thing we could do.

Or the airport fence, and, you know, not allow people to disturb, to break up the meeting.

But just frankly, the arrests here in Washington, I wouldn't worry about it, maybe.

But I'd write a letter about this, yell out,

We've been around the country.

Now there, I'm sure, there's been so much written about the fact that you are out, that you do get the big crowds, the enthusiasm, that you plow into them, and all the picture stuff that's around and everything that frosts the people who don't like us to get that stuff.

And we get the thing played back.

And they'll try to create a myth that all our crowds are Sarah Hines.

And that's what they were trying to do on this.

The new Republican particles said very clearly that, you know, they had looked into it, and it was absolutely clear that this was not the Nixon advance men or anybody involved with the Nixon party.

It was the Air Force security people who had kept these people out.

Now, God damn it, they're entitled to do that.

Any military base keeps people out.

Well, also, they didn't want people in there who were going to disrupt the other people on a special day.

That's right.

I'm for that, and we're going to have to play that pretty hard anyway.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

This is the golden time.

Oh, yeah, that's about it.

We have been scared of who we are with our presences over in the United States.

We can't respond to the number seven.

The question on the muskie deep, he was asked on cue, and the conference was cut off on cue.

They should take him on on that.

He asked a question for that.

I got a slight excited, but the point was that, the point was there was no, he noticed, let me put it this way, Bob, if we planted questions, it'd be different, and we don't.

I just think it's well beneath them, getting their heads up too high.

Is he watching?

You're watching this news, aren't you?

I don't read it every day, but how is it like this?

I announce, they probably will have done it, because that's one, they will head on, by the time I check on them, they're done 90% of the time.

That's so, by the way, on the crew, of course, I didn't know the question.

Very well.

I don't know who asked it.

You've got to have the confidence of a certain hand.

At the end of 35 minutes, it's 35 minutes.

By the way, sir, it always is done.

Now, what crossed their mind was that they didn't.

And they realized it afterwards.

I saw someone in college.

They said, why, I read that you have a black-white president.

Nobody asked him whether he could have a black-white president.

No, for Christ's sake, sir.

They know what the answer is going to be.

I'm not going to discuss something with you.

I said that at the beginning.

And also, I already have a black-white president.

Is it keeping this musky thing alive?

Yeah, right.

Unless he screwed it up again.

I saw that.

He said he didn't have this year, but maybe he could next year.

The poor guy, it's just, you know, he just keeps going and he keeps screwing it up, which is exactly what he surely is.

Well, that one sure screws it up.

I think.

I mean, it keeps it alive.

Are you sure that you're screwing it up?

Also, some of them are jackals.

Even though they don't want to help you, they want to help Teddy or they want to help McGovern or something like that.

A lot of them yapping at muskies, even.

The first question, the Democrats said that whoever gets out in front, there will be some people who have been had.

Musk has said that actually the appeal is, that's his whole thing.

He's being perfect, but he's the subject of the candidate, not the others.

The thing that the insider's newsletter type thing is pushing now is that Kennedy mills taken.

That's really what's being maneuvered here.

She explains all the mills that's in operation.

Mills?

Okay.

That's the period.

Yeah.

All right, if by now there's no, uh, not ready to keep any lines, that's okay.

Fine.

Speculation on who the hell's gonna be on the air at that time.

All's for us today, maybe not tomorrow.

What's the must-keep?

Let's keep that concern.

You know, on the pedagogic papers, I was just thinking that when it all came out that many of our people here were, to get us back to the point I was making, very certain, you know, very terrified.

I don't think it will do it, Bob, unless it's

I think it's a good idea.

See, Trump can't push very far against John.

He raises his points.

He sent out a note the other day saying, you know, we're missing the opportunity on this.

But Trump doesn't know what John knows about pushing.

What we are, Henry, on that part of the problem, you know.

Chuck, you talk about facts, so we've got to go along and solve them.

But basically it's wrong to say it.

Just to say it makes it a policy, recognizing that not saying it leaves the door open for hope.

You cannot say it makes it a policy.

I thought that was a good advice, saying, well, they changed my name.

They're going to put on, the blacks, I would think, would put on a hell of a thing to demand a commitment that there would be a black vice president.

has the price for not going with a black candidate.

I think the bill with the black candidate, the indications are, our guy, Murray's guy, talked with John Conyers for the first time.

And Conyers is quite sincere.

Their point is they know they won't get any more.

But he says, I bet, he says, I think we'll pick up two, three million bucks.

He says, that ain't bad for the first time around.

Well, that's what Conyers says.

And he asked them who they saw as a candidate.

And he said, Julie Bond or Stokes or Chisholm, the woman.

And how do you look at the effort that the socialists and the Congress have made to run?

candidates, it isn't inconceivable that the blacks would mobilize to vote on them.

You could get a black candidate and a white candidate.

And even then, you take it right, a million or two votes apiece.

I was up in Detroit when it was full.

And Michigan is really our soft spot in the Midwest.

Both of us got on the board.

I don't think we should even try.

I don't either.

I mean, we require Michigan twice.

Leave Michigan as part of the general country.

Yeah, if you try everything, it'd go all out.

You don't want Michigan to affect Ohio too much.

That's the problem.

But Ohio, no.

You just go for those that you can really go for.

Let them go for theirs.

We spent a lot of time in Michigan in the 60s and 80s.

And 60s.

It's a hard speaking campaign, too, which is another problem.

I know.

It's not out of the question.

These polls are extremely volatile.

Oh, yeah.

They just don't know how we can vote.

There's got to be a mile there still to go.

Yeah.

I mean, if you're in New York, but then in Michigan.

I would, too.

I think you've got to... First of all, this is to... We've got to really do it.

I guess John has this in mind when he talks about it.

We've got to get the conservatives.

They're the key to New York.

Not a lot of these people, but the conservatives.

Yeah, but a lot of these organizations are working with us, plus we're conservative services.

I think we could, particularly if the Democrats have a third, if there's just another party in there, that's what you need.

Any other party that helps us in New York.

So many radicals.

I went over quite a detailed poll of red ones taken in Alabama, you brought in yesterday.

that he's using, you know, trying to make his own decision.

And, well, you look good down there.

What's it show?

It shows in a three-way race with Muskie, you, and Wallace.

It shows you a point and a half behind Wallace's haul.

And Muskie doesn't even, you know, he's like 12%.

You could win that bet.

You're 31.5, Wallace is 33, and he's 12 or something like that.

It's a lot better choices.

None of the Democrats, Hubert does, picks up a little bit.

Hubert does better than Muskie.

Teddy does very badly.

With Wallace out, you just, you win.

you beat Muskie, I mean Wallace.

But Wallace out, you beat the Democrat, whoever it is, by a substantial margin.

You know, the liberals are trying to sell, and even Dr. John Kahn into this, the idea, and this is one of the things that's been wrong, that Wallace really hurts each people.

That's not really true.

I asked Blunt about that.

What's your view on the Wallace?

Obviously, Wallace, there's the state of Alabama.

But Blunt says, his view is, and then as Jimmy Allison was in with him, he's been working with this stuff, that Alabama would be Wallace's strongest state.

And there, you are just a freckle behind it.

In a three-way race.

In other words, you could carry Alabama in a three-way race.

You win hands down without any question in a two-way race.

So that walks in.

If that's true in Alabama, their view is that it's more true in every other southern state.

In other words, if you come that close to Alabama in a three-way race, you'll carry the rest of the South in a three-way race.

And you will sweep the South in a two-way race.

My point really is you could ignore the two-way race.

If you get Wallace out, that's what I mean.

If you win the South either way, with Wallace in or out, with him out, what happens to you up there?

And he laughed and he said, don't buy that stuff.

The only reason Wallace,

did us any good in the North was, in the early part of the campaign, he cut into the blue collar.

When the labor unions who weren't very bright, when Meany didn't realize that threat until fairly late, moved in, he undercut it, and he got elected as a result.

This time, and Meany, he said, Meany's talked to him about this, because they've talked about Southern politics and stuff, Meany's laughed, and he said, you know, we can put that little guy, stick his head up.

Again, like he did last time.

He didn't let Wallace do anything.

That's his point.

It's my point, too.

And therefore, Wallace running will not help you in the morning.

Because it won't stipend off blue collar.

There's great things that are going to get Wallace out.

I said, he thought Wallace was going to run.

He said that it's touch and go.

You can't tell.

He does clearly still love the stuff.

And his new wife does.

She likes campaign and the glory.

But he's had a hell of a time with the legislature.

He used to have ironclad whip hand control.

Now he doesn't have it.

They're whipping him instead.

He's got all of his best staff people have left.

He had a fundraiser in Nashville, which was supposed to be a very big thing and raised very little money.

That discouraged him.

In other words, he saw that his appeal wasn't there, that he used to have.

He used to be able to go out and really crank up those things, and that's what didn't happen that way.

And so there's that, how do you get him out?

Well, I don't know.

Let's talk about our money and things.

We've been talking about our two million dollars and stuff.

You've had to put the word out there to Combox or

Our goal has changed now.

We want to get all the money we can.

We're working on this business of $3 million this month.

No, how about $10 million?

Yeah, whatever.

And that's just, you know, just preliminary money.

But I mean, how much is not the guy to be the money raiser?

Money includes money.

Well, I mean, I get it.

But I mean, suppose you had $50 million, which is possible.

So you could .

You mind if I?

Sure.

I think it's worth .

I think that's the game.

The game should be a lot more cynical than it's been.

We just haven't been that.

And congressional races have done it for years.

Congressional kind, they've always played it.

Norris Bolson, who was a person

one of them, a pleasant figure.

But Norris always had six candidates running against him.

Always.

Now, he never failed a lot.

And he'd win, and a Democrat gets here.

Well, that's a realistic opportunity, presidentially, this time.

Yeah.

McCarthy is clearly realistic.

And I think a lot's realistic.

If they got the dough, they'd do it.

Get started.

They've got to get started.

put themselves on the ballot.

And just the fact of them getting started, getting qualified, will screw the Democratic plenty enough, badly enough, that it'll give us a problem to account to.

Now, I noticed that we have a list of guard.

Sorry, it's a piece of aggressive hypocrisy to cut it up, isn't it?

He did everything.

He basically, there he re-separated the lefties from the moderate cause.

You've got the Chicago Sun-Times.

Now, that's liberal, but fair.

Normally fair.

I mean, they're out in the country.

Now, you might have to care.

It's liberal, but fair.

They'll love him, or liberal, but fair.

And, you know, sort of fair.

But, my point is, isn't it interesting to know that you, but you get to, you get to litmus test liberals like, listen to me,

Every time he'd come up this way, don't they?

Yeah.

Yeah, he wrote a really good piece on the press conference.

Did he?

Yep.

Of course, that's because he likes being on this press conference.

What did you say about that?

I didn't see it.

It was the, you know, said he, how productive it was that he covered the ground, very good answers, staff, you know, cleared up specific questions.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I mean, it was very positive.

sort of background piece on the dress code, rather than just reporting it.

Yeah.

Well, he had done a report on the piece too, but this was a separate... Was that in the news?

Uh, yeah, I'm sure it was.

I'm sure that's where I saw it.

I don't want to read it.

It's probably not today.

It may have been yesterday.

I think, yeah.

On the other hand, you come down to, you know, you can't agree with me, but you come down to stuff that is...

He's also back in the media.

If you take a poll on this, Dan Shore, he's on those.

He is always great.

He's always something, isn't he?

He is.

He's on, you know, shouldn't get involved in this, but he's on our tax list, too.

Good.

They're going after a couple of media people.

Dan Shore, Mary McGlory.

Good.

And...

They've been hunting the outside.

They think they might have something.

I just want to harass them, just give them a little trouble.

Exactly.

Banish people.

Give them something to worry about.

It's routine.

Damn.

That's right.

We're going to maybe talk to Hoover today, too.

The damn FBI.

You know, we...

to the indirect route, tried to get an FBI thing on shore.

And they didn't have anything.

There are files on it.

So instead of admitting they didn't have anything, they started doing some investigating.

So who did they investigate?

They talked to people at CDS.

And so the first person they contacted said, why are you?

No, not shore, but one of his associates or somebody.

because he's under consideration for a high-level government position.

Well, that got back to somebody else, and we got this panic-stricken thing from Buchanan, saying, Jesus Christ, what are you hiring Daniel Storer for?

He was in a state of absolute panic, thinking we had lost our senses.

We're going to hire Schor.

That's all right.

And any of that old stuff, if you say, well, it's on my partisan board, it's really gonna have to happen right now.

That's it, big time.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll all be on that.

Some of that stuff, I must say, if the Bureau doesn't have a hell of a lot of finesse, they're not much better.

They're very much better.

It's great that we are all home.

Yes, indeed.

He's got a couple of things.

I think when he was planning to go on the boat last night, he called me and asked what your agenda was.

And I said, nothing.

And he said, good.

I'll get my thoughts on this.

a figure in the wall.

Is he?

Well, it gives us that impression.

It's pretty goddamn high.

I mean, that's why they're

I couldn't think of anyone to be laughing at me.

I know that wonderful girl.

I mean, I know the wife and the husband, assistant secretary, but they are as long, long as you see.

And she is fucking nice.

She really is.

And I think it's meant that I get her.

And I bet she'd like to come back to Washington.

I would thank you.

I think also, I must say, that Whiteburgers, I can't, Whiteburgers have got an impossibility in my view for the reason that they're, basically because I know he'd be the judge.

I don't know whether, I don't know that

first decision that set a line, as long as he made the commitment to you on the busing.

And he would.

Cap is an honest man.

Well, he's an honest man, but he's also a lawyer.

I mean, he'll, yeah, he'll deal with it.

Well, he, you can't run.

He called Cap in, or Mitchell comes in and says, look, we want to make this recommendation, but 14 to 10 minutes here.

Which way do you mean?

Yeah, I'll just say.

that he will, as a matter of principle, will not appoint anybody to the court who believes in it.

If you do, then you must not accept the complaint.

Because that should be understood.

Obviously, we're not influencing your decision, we're determining your

some Potter Stewart and all that names around.

We'll get Harlan, too, so I will name four, and then Potter Stewart becomes the same man.

He's a goddamn weak reader, I must say, but we can only get one more, and we'll have a corp.

I still think the odds are over with you getting into another one.

What do you mean?

One of those will get accepted.

Of course, Douglas, I'm sure, will just hang on by the last chair he's got just not to give you the drum lemon.

If we just heated both Douglas and Marshall up, where Black is resigning, I think if Douglas and Marshall, if they were totally incapacitated on their deathbed, they wouldn't give you the one until they die.

Those two are going to have no trace of honor.

I'd like to talk to him and Weinberger about the OEO extension and the Stans' business on small business, minority business.

on personnel cuts.

I don't want to talk to you about it.

Also, could I suggest this?

Just for the long shot, seeing Malik knows a hell of a good

Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on 1972 Presidential Election and George Wallace

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on September 18, 1971

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