Conversation 579-003

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Aye, sir.

You had quite a trip this person.

Yeah.

He's got about the best weekend coverage that I can give.

He's had with a possible exception since August 15th in China, since I've been in the White House.

The first time I've seen the three Sunday newspapers that I read, the three stories each above the fold on Sunday, leads on the television networks, just like that.

China Open was just telling me that it played very heavily on me.

and you're in the area, in the region as well.

And apparently the crowds were excellent.

What is the situation regarding your race?

You're right.

Well, it'll be something.

It seems that Scott Harnett seems to be soft.

You know, they say it's because of the things he's doing with the rest of it.

It just may be that it's about where it ought to be.

The problem is there's a wait-and-see attitude.

Yeah, they're going to wait and see.

And they're just going to wait out until you announce days, too.

I don't think we've announced that.

They'll still wait.

No.

I don't think so.

Well, I think what they're concerned with is... No, business is concerned, which is what reports the south-north-south market, is the cooperation of labor.

Will it be workable?

Will there be controls on business profits and or prices to the degree that profits are affected?

And they really, no matter how many times you say it,

And while that's going on, I did a survey yesterday.

I called half of those fellows on the street and said, what the hell's wrong with you guys?

You've got more money now flowing into the market than they've had in a long time.

The institutional accounts are building up.

And they said, yeah, everybody's keeping cash reserves to buy if they see them.

The current rights have been worried about.

Oh, no.

No, it isn't.

The whole thing is that the, I'm looking for example, the consumer competence surveys and so forth do not show us, you know, you get around the country and you hear of any number of instances where people are very bullish.

Everybody talks about it, but it doesn't reflect in the consumer surveys.

I mean, you remember we talked about this in the previous

The mission survey always tends to be a little bit more varied than others.

But what's your feeling on that?

Maybe that doesn't reflect what people do.

Because consumers are going to do it not that well, I think.

The theory, they're running very strong.

You see that, any report of that?

Well, and also the Time magazine yesterday, their board of editors meeting.

Well, it's utterly spectacular.

Including the headline, Time had a whole page on it in which they, 100 billion in growth, a startling forecast.

The Times, the board of economic advisors of Time magazine

which covers the waterfront.

Their nine-man board of economists predicted that next year's gross national product will increase by $100 billion, which is just utterly spectacular.

And $100 billion, which is

which would make it the most bullish year we've had, make it the best year we've had in 10 years.

But the interesting thing about this, Mr. President, is that the people who really made the bullish predictions to time, the economists of the night, were guys like Walter Heller.

uh, Otto Eckstein.

Right.

And, uh, he's the one who picked the $100 billion figure.

Heller agreed with it.

Alan Greenstein, who's our friend, was a little more on the conservative side, although he agreed with it.

But the unanimous, almost the unanimous prediction of the time economists was $100 billion, actually.

Now that, if, if that represents a good cross-section, and they have,

have historically been rather on the bearish side.

A page like this in Time magazine, even though we don't pay a whole lot of attention to time.

Oh, sure.

So your Detroit speech, Mr. President, was a very interesting reaction.

The market went shooting up Friday morning.

Well, it was up about five points, and then the profit-taking side of it ended up a point or two off for the day.

But they don't need a hell of a lot of encouragement.

They just...

The worst thing you can have, and in hindsight, I don't suppose it could have been done any differently.

The worst thing from the market standpoint, and I think from businessmen's standpoint, is uncertainty.

If something is predictably one way or another, then they can follow it, but...

They're not quite sure.

The first quarter orders, the orders for the first quarter of next year, they're just holding.

Nobody's placed them because they want to see what comes out of it.

And almost anything you announce is based here.

Whatever it is, is going to be bullish because it's going to replace uncertainty with certainty.

Unless it's just impossible to suit to Orson.

He's reading every science.

It's a hodgepodge of crap that we have to put in.

It's unbelievably difficult.

You know what the interesting thing is?

I just wonder if we aren't running out of time, Charlie, for our labor guys.

I don't think we're going to gain by this continue to take that.

Now, the labor falls, and of course, you know, and of course, the labor-type candidates like Jackson, they're now really on top of the harvest.

And I think they are a logical pitch if you go around getting those labor leaders on every one of them, including most of their members.

That's right.

And there are a very great amount of those of us.

Yeah.

And we sit around here.

I agree.

But it's a very difficult question, Mr. President.

How do you do it?

I said, how do you do it?

You see, the other thing that George Shultz and I were just meeting on this this morning, talking about that very point.

Yeah.

The other thing is that you have to remember that Meany, Meany is the villain at the moment.

Yeah.

In the public's mind and in his membership's mind.

Yeah.

But you've got large segments of the AFL-CIO that may not politically follow him.

And the only way... Well, Woodcock, of course, says that they're going to have the biggest... No, Woodcock, Anthony, and the AFL-CIO, Kirkland, are going to have the biggest bomb in history on the track.

They're going to fight it.

Well, they've always said that.

And...

There is a hell of a big difference between the kind of money and organization support that they can put in, in gender, and the amount of votes they can deliver.

I don't worry about the money part of it.

Yeah, I don't...

I had never believed that they could deliver the votes.

They can deliver money and provide organization, but delivering...

It's just sort of one of those, you know, like the Grant Harris's.

It's sort of, uh, right on the razor's edge.

Well, he is obviously reacting, I think, to Chief Justice's pressure primarily.

What the way he puts it is, it would be very helpful in this climate

to go.

There's no question if you go to this one, you'd have to go to Ireland's.

That's obvious.

Well, I said that, and he said, no, that Marshall's wouldn't be in Washington, and you should have a memorial service for it.

I said, well, why should he?

What is the purpose?

What is the reason for doing it?

He said, it would be, why don't they go to Providence, for example?

He says, this is a matter of the general climate that we're in at this point.

even though he didn't agree with him, at a time when the effort is being made by the opposition to build the president's political view towards the court and all this on appointments.

Did it be helpful to your relationship to the court, show respect to the court, counter the charge of the political attitude towards the court?

He said, look at the other side.

If he doesn't go, it just gives the opposition a chance to say this proves he doesn't give a damn about the court, doesn't show respect.

It is being covered by television.

It wasn't going to be.

The family wanted it low-key and private.

And they got to him last night and talked him into the fact that he's such a pillar of history that they owed it to the world to let the cameras cover the service that they're going to.

I said, well, how do you sum it up, John?

Are you urging that the president go, insisting that he go, or just suggesting?

And he said, the way I would put it is if I were in the president's spot, I would go because of the climate at the present time, but it will not change the earth either way, whether he goes or whether he doesn't go.

And he said, also, I recognize that you get close to this stuff, people talking about it.

He said, I may not be looking at it.

Objectively.

That crazy poor damn Hoop Johnson went to every funeral now.

He loved to go to funerals.

Now, uh, the point is that you just can't, can't go right around to every damn funeral now.

I don't know black.

I made that point.

It's not my crime that you didn't know it in the final time.

Everybody knows he opposed to you, your position on everything.

That, uh,

He didn't have any distinctive, you know, it wasn't the hypocritical issue of justice or the man who had been there the longest or anything like that.

There was no way to pick him out.

In fact, he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

That sounds like a goddamn thing to say.

And he said,

you know, unless you had some overriding reason.

I said, well, you do have an overriding reason.

You're meeting with the president of the Organization of African Unity and five African prime ministers who will be highly offended by their meeting being delayed by your last coming.

And he said, well, tell them to move the meeting.

I said, you really want to slap the blacks in the face that way?

He said, well, I think they won't, as a matter of fact, if you're back with me.

I didn't tell him that.

I didn't tell him the truth.

It is a 2S over 230.

Barrel is a 3.

It is a...

I know, just the President.

I know.

And I wouldn't, the only man I'm doing it for, if I did, it would be for Mitchell.

This bullshit, the effect that I've got to do this for the court, I mean, you get that.

I mean, you're a lawyer, Chuck.

It's all lawyers.

I'm not sure that government deals this way.

It takes more people to do this.

That's right.

Every goddamn lawyer, sure.

And so this guy, he's a lawyer tonight.

I said, you're making a very serious mistake if you don't do it.

You know?

And they, of course, are popular.

Why would a little gentleman shoot?

No, sir.

Well, I don't know.

I don't think one would.

I know none of the others would.

Moral.

No, sir.

Neither would John.

They're not going to happen.

I don't give a goddamn because I can read or write them, so we won't try.

On this occasion.

But they talk about a plan to extinguish people.

If just one of our people would have a gut, we don't have any people with guts.

Well, a lot of people that have guts have no brains.

But anyway, the thing is that...

I just go down the line and I'll put a slogan up there.

Is Brandon distinguished?

Is Marty distinguished?

Is Switzer White distinguished?

Now, for Christ's sakes, I mean, in law school, those guys are going to be in the middle of their class.

I mean, of course, Switzer White said, well, he was a Rhodes Scholar.

He had a car out of college.

and black and harlem those are the only three harlem's harlem's have a very bland

Black was a very able man.

Forrest was, of course, more smart than he would begin.

And Cricket's a dog's hind leg.

Warren was a dumb sleepy.

He was sick.

No one could ask.

Now, all this bullshit about distinguished judges just makes me sick.

And my son, Berger, is more distinguished than any of them.

And you look at their backgrounds before they were on the court also.

Well, now, compare Berger with them.

Now, Berger's got class.

And they kind of had a say because, well, we're going to find out how he's not extinguished.

He's right there and knows other people.

And who knows how extinguished he will become.

You're the hell of a lot more distinguished record up to this point than Black did.

I'll tell you what I will do.

I will go.

No, you're not going to let me.

You're not going to tell us anything.

You're not to tell the Secret Service and all that.

I'm just going to go to the goddamn thing.

I'm going to sit in the back of that church and leave.

I'm not going to make this a big public parade.

I just insist on that.

I'm just not going to make it a goddamn thing that I cannot.

I'm only doing it for a half-assed reason anyway.

I'm not going to go up there, upper 80s and all that.

Now, there will be television there anyway, and I'm not doing it for that.

I'm doing it for John Mason.

I'll tell you one point, though.

You shouldn't just go and sit in the back of that church.

You've got to hold a seat in front of Kevin and say, all right, hold a seat and say it's for everyone or something.

Just hold a seat up there and say it, and then I'll come and meet you and I'll be pretty.

But I'm not going to play one secret crowd.

I'm not going to go up there with that goddamn bunch of, you know, in the parade, you know, I mean, I've got the press men and all that and those secret service men, but one other thing.

Those bastards have got to quit sprouting on the running boards of those cars.

Now it looks like hell.

It just looks like hell, and they don't need to.

I mean, they, what an earthly reason they do that because they used to have open cars.

What earthly reason, what good does it do to have a right on the running board of cars?

Can you tell me?

I've got to get off faster.

When you slow down or something, you know, they...

They don't get off.

I never ride, I didn't ride in one of the cars where I'm mortgaged.

That's what I mean.

Yeah, but as soon as you slow down to a, uh, you know, a walking pace, they, they get off the run and go in the run-up and run along.

Your car.

I don't think it's bad.

If it's bad, it's bad, too.

It looks like a bunch of bugs.

I've told them to do that several times.

You gotta take it out of the hell.

If you get something right in the car, you can get out.

You know what I mean?

Well, it's dangerous too.

One of them fell off.

I don't know if you know, but one fell off in Alaska.

A splat onto the pavement.

We came here and ran over it.

Well, just get them off the running board of the cars.

It's an old custom.

Have a car with the pillars off.

See what I mean?

They can sit there, but they live there.

And I think another thing that it does, which, of course, you're totally aware of, is that most of the people, they pass the car to the president's head.

Oh yes, they all turn there because you see, they don't know, we see the flags and the rest.

But you see, they see these guys standing there looking there.

And this is good.

But you see, they think they're standing there guarding the president on the running order of the Congress.

It's a very, very bad public image.

Just a hell of a bad image.

I just get them sitting down.

Sit down.

We're just a little bit away from that.

I don't know why.

I think they're selling a lot of this.

Well, it doesn't serve any purpose.

Do they think they're going to frighten somebody by the fact that everybody in the league has Secret Service?

Let me tell you, it frightens them all the hell a lot more when you haven't seen one in so long.

They just think that anything close to them is the same as Secret Service.

I don't think it frightens them, but they're right around the corner of that car.

I really don't.

I think they're much better targets when they're out there.

If anybody wants to start shooting, you've got to shoot them right now.

And they'll have to shoot them and shoot you.

My Christ.

You've got to shoot them all.

They've got to save their own lives.

You've got to shoot them, too.

Not a good idea, anyway.

We can have them sit down.

Just stay there until my turn.

Keep going.

I'm low key, I'm not telling this God damn pressure.

I am not telling, this is a private matter.

Understand?

It's a totally private matter.

And I'm going to decide it in the last minute.

See?

So you got some little advance man out there right away.

And the whole place there, they're not sailing.

Why don't you say they're holding the bread?

Would that be all right?

Or I don't know.

I don't know.

For me, or can they do it privately?

I just don't want to.

I don't want this press corps to go and lift me up there, Bob.

I'm just not going to do it.

It's a, I have a, I have a thing about cameras.

I don't, I believe I have one thing that should not be exploited.

God damn it.

I've always thought that way.

I'm not going to have one again, Peter, when I'm finished.

They're just not going to do it.

They're just going to stop the explosions.

They're going to be there.

I know that part, but that's not on that article.

That means that's not exploited from here.

You don't see my point.

When I once said we were going to go out to the President's and I was going to go to Mr. Justice Black's funeral, I just let them go.

I felt that way.

I said, let them go to the goddamn funeral.

That's what we'll do.

And, I mean, they clear the road five or six before, whatever they have to do, and they'll go.

Fair enough?

Yep.

Low key, I'm gonna do it.

Don't tell anyone I'm coming.

I'm just coming.

Just make it totally unexpected and get the hell out of there first.

Okay.

I know it's a problem.

They all live within themselves.

They are too regional.

They all live within themselves.

I couldn't do it, I can't go to every funeral.

They're going to leave me in half of that center.

Four or five will die the next year.

I can't do it for ages.

I don't like this kind of business.

He said they have kind of had things going fine.

They haven't accomplished anything, but they are

They're talking about changing things for the first time, and the Japs are making some moves and stuff.

It's just things are jarring moves, and that's encouraging.

So, you know, it's to get somewhere.

He does think he should see Schweitzer.

And he told Archer, he has already told Archer to tell Schweitzer that he would see him.

He told him he wanted him to tell him.

He said he'd done it.

He said that

low-key and that what he would recommend you do is just see him for a few minutes before the reception tomorrow afternoon just have him come over and come in and see you but then let him go over and get in there all right so that he doesn't enter with you don't build him up could i see him with connelly yes he said i said do you want to tell me there and johnson fine whatever he wants how about our everyone in there i didn't answer

Maybe we're going to see if it's better to sing along.

I suppose you can see that both our verbes are just tuned in.

Arrange it.

So you have to have 45 minutes before the reception so we can have half an hour and he can get his table over there.

And I'll be walking.

I've got to do some...

I've got to speak to that reception.

I don't want to see them just report.

We're working on it.

And not before Bromico, not before the Procedure.

You know, just before the Procedure.

Sure, but you have to speak at that time.

You know, okay, I'll speak at the Procedure.

Okay.

Then you get the mental improvement, the breathing, the citation.

You can do it right after the Procedure, which might be easy.

That's easy.

Do it, but that'll be true about 11.

Why do you have to receive those people?

11.30.

Why?

Alright.

Well, before you have to invite them at 12, it'd be true with them at 12.15 or so.

Then you have Bromico at 3 in the afternoon.

Oh, uh, let's see.

Hey, would you rather do it for four of us?

You have the market square for four of us.

You'll see that in about 10.30.

We'd have to talk to him.

I think it requires preparation.

Yeah.

Let's do it in the morning.

Well, I don't know what else.

Well, how about, uh, what did you say, after Monday's reception tomorrow?

The reception's tomorrow afternoon at five.

You can do it after the reception.

Now, let's try to walk.

This ain't gonna look crazy, huh?

Great.

We're gonna leave it as a tree.

Yes, sir.

And they just gotta run a little beyond.

We're prepared for the reception.

Can't see him before, but let's move it back a little bit.

1115, apparently.

You're correct.

See, we come tender.

Before, I guess, it was season to get up to it.

Right at noon, say.

Yeah.

And that's why you have an hour for both.

Right, but you're giving him a choice, you know what I mean?

He's probably going to have a lot of people.

Yeah.

All right.

Good.

Well, you can do your thing, though.

Yes, sir.

A different color of that is you cut somebody in, but they're going.

Exactly.

Yeah, justices, you could have four of them, really.

Black, Carlin, Marshall, Douglas, any time.

Battery turned off, he thinks.

You know, Dan, well, I have to go to the park.

I have to.

Yes.

I just think this general stuff is a goddamn thing.

I think really, of course, everything that happens, everybody gets in a position to go to the park, and he gets to go to the thing, and the ABA thinks they're so goddamn hot, and they think they're so hot, and I'm not.

I'm not.

I have a hang-up, as you do.

I don't like to go to funerals.

I like to pay my respects to people while they're alive.

It's morbid.

I went to win presents, and it's just a depressing hour.

Everybody out there is

sitting in the car in the morning, talking about this stuff.

President, on the labor... You can get the Senate busy on these confirmation acts so they can't screw up the Mansfield Act.

Damn Mansfield.

That's a terribly irresponsible thing to throw that amendment at.

He knows goddamn well it's only a question of one or two or three or whatever the case might be.

Sure, but it's political.

Sure.

You know, he's... We've got to keep saying that.

We've got to keep saying that.

Well, we are.

You know, the Vice President really hit him last week on that defense speech.

God, he just went right for the gun.

Of course, they all reacted just the way you'd expect them to.

But we have to keep doing that.

Mansfield is a very shrewd politician.

He has the veneer of non-politics, but he's not...

Oh, boy.

An Irish politician.

Sure is, and a good one.

He knows goddamn well that the House right now is in bad shape on fighting that amendment.

And if that goes through, then he gets credit for the Democrats rescuing the country from the war and steals a little bit from you.

That's exactly the name of the game.

Any damn Republican who votes with him right now...

I was at Clark McGregor's dinner party last night, and Colonel Albert was saying that

He couldn't hold the votes in line.

He was afraid of the Republicans, so Jerry Ford was also there.

I said, Jerry, goddammit, this is a great party issue.

Are you going to let these guys get the jump on us in terms of being the first to say the war is over, or are you going to let the president do it?

It's just that plain simple, and there's a hell of a lot of votes next year.

There shouldn't be one goddamn Republican who trades off the reservation on that, no matter what his reason is.

because he's going to hurt himself a hell of a lot more in his district by weakening your strength, the president's strength, than he is by casting what he thinks is a popular vote.

It's the only way that one will be dealt with, and that's going to be dealt with very goddamn hard in the House, is a straight, partisan vote just the way the Democrats have planned it.

And that's the only reason Ansu is right back with him this week.

He knows he's irritating his colleagues.

They've just been through this agonizing debate on the draft bill.

We can keep it as long as we want.

No, the authorization bill doesn't delay us.

That's a very good possibility.

I think we ought to just keep it down then and let the Senate look so goddamn sick.

That's one way we could do it.

That's exactly what it is.

That's the whole issue.

And of course he's doing it the weird.

You've got two forces at work.

You've got their press on the elections, although the people don't give a goddamn.

At all.

Just at all.

I talked to Harris about that.

He's back from the Soviet Union.

He said the issue is absolutely zero.

Forget it.

He said it's gone.

On the other hand, who ended the war is a hell of a positive issue for us if we forget it.

That's the one that they want to keep from us.

They've got the prisoner issue boiling now with the wives here raising hell.

They've got the

media playing up the elections and they've got mansfield going through his drill and they're they're simply trying to prevent us from using that issue ourselves and that's pure politics i think keeping the military procurement bill bottom up in the senate is a hell of a good idea that keeps the house from having to vote on conferees yes sir but the the key vote in the house comes on instructing concrete so that

If it's bottled up in the Senate so that there isn't a requirement for a conference, then Albert can delay that vote as long as we want in the House.

And he's on our side on that issue.

Unless they get to him on the politics.

Well, they don't know the hell about else, Mr. President.

You know, ten days ago I was worried that they were building up a crescendo of criticism on the economics

economic issue and they didn't sustain it.

They weren't able to sustain it.

Well, but it's a

The economic charts are going to be determined by what happens, so we just can't fool ourselves.

That's right.

The economy moves up, these people are just going to be better than Kelsey's nuts.

Right.

If that thing is 75% right, we're going to be even closer to the economy.

I don't give a damn even if there is inflation.

We're going to have it.

If times are good, people are going to have it.

I know.

Well, if this is right, you're talking about a group right next to you that is just

sensational and a hell of a lot of people going back to work and when that happens people buy of course i'm not convinced there's any unemployment i'm not convinced there's the unemployment out there that people say well i i ask everybody i talk to mr president uh you know give me the hard facts how's the unemployment here and they say we don't have any and i'll be damned if i know where it is

And we ran that comparison that I told you about of New York figures all year long.

And I played a dirty trick on BLS.

I sent them over one month's figures and asked for the explanation.

And they said, well, the whole explanation is that it isn't seasonally adjusted.

You have to look at the figures all year.

So then I gave them the figures all year.

And every month, the federal figures are anywhere from four-tenths of 1% to 1.3 higher than New York.

So what did they say then?

They've got no answer.

Same in California.

Same in Illinois, same in Ohio, same in Pennsylvania.

Month after month after month, same.

So we... Yeah, well, no.

I think they're playing with the seasonal adjustment for what we've done.

You know, they can keep expanding the workforce, project it bigger and bigger all the time.

See, that's where they...

I thought eventually... That's right.

What we've done is we put a hard-nosed guy in there.

Well, he's tough and he's mean.

I had him over and I had a conversation.

If anybody recorded it, I'd gracefully withdraw or deny it.

But I said, look, they've been slanting him against us.

Now, your job is to see that they're slanted for us.

They're honest, but if it's a slant, then it's for us.

He's a tough guy.

He's a boat rocker.

Every job he's had, he's

He's raised a lot of ruckus.

Really?

Very controversial.

Commerce?

No, we couldn't get that guy.

That guy will only take the top.

Right outside?

At DLS.

No, he's the head of your presidential commission of statistics.

He's the staff director.

Oh, well, good.

He's got all the connections.

Oh, sure.

He was Alan Wallace's guy.

Oh, good.

Wallace's guy.

And he's out at the University of Pittsburgh, so they'll play ball with him.

He's the number two guy.

now, but I'm also going to have to replace him with your husband.

Rick?

More.

But I can't fight that bullet.

Well, the only reason we didn't before was Arthur Burns, and how Arthur's happy now.

And we can find another job with some prestige, and I...

Tomorrow.

I have a bed.

Well, that's what I'd like to do.

Why not?

I'd love to do that.

She's qualified to give you a bed.

I don't think he comes from the region where we have vacancies, which may be one-handed.

Well, what I want to do, I've got a guy who is a pastor's assistant who is intensely political.

Sure.

Exactly right.

Exactly.

Well, we've got them over a barrel now.

Nobody's ever tried to really examine their figures, and they're at the point where they can't answer my questions.

At this point, they can't answer the question.

So...

Well, I figured them in two ways, Mr. President.

No, and the media hasn't given us any.

In the last three weeks, four was enough.

Now, the economic reports.

As a matter of fact, I'm holding my breath because we have not had a bad economic report of any real consequence in about three weeks.

We've had good reports, Mr. President.

The NBC one on retail sales last week, haven't we?

That would cause people to go out and buy it.

There are two reasons why I think it hasn't sunk in yet.

We were on an awful down slide before August 15th.

You picked it up and started it back up.

People do have money.

People are spending.

They're running 8 to 9% ahead of the year.

They're not quite sure yet.

Yeah, but there isn't an explosion of spending.

I mean, there isn't.

People aren't just running out and buying everything they can get their hands on.

And that may be just as well.

Well, Passer's argument, which is a damn good one, really, is that about September 1st, retail sales would have started to go down badly because the singlinger curve was like this.

They've reversed.

They've held up a little, held up a little.

What he thinks he did on August 15th was to restore confidence and stop the downstream.

Singleton says that.

But what he says is that it hasn't.

come back yet, will it?

I will see.

It hasn't come back as far as we would like it to come back, but it's come back.

Well, the Harris theory, of course, there's just a little more left than Harris.

The economy, the economy started coming up eight months ago, and the people haven't yet thought, I would say, so it's maybe the timeline, because it's going to be longer this time, maybe it's a year, but it's unimaginably going to happen.

Well, not only that, but... Harris certainly must be that, too.

Oh, actually?

Yes, it is.

He's foolish about it, Mr. President.

His explanation is that the public attitudes are slow at recovering this time because of

Yeah, but also because it was a slower recovery than others.

Less of a recession.

That's right.

It's a little downturn.

So yeah, that's true.

There's a recession in psychology.

We really have an interesting thing.

But one thing he got ahead of Mayor Jackson.

I know this, and this is Humphrey's line.

And he said, we left in 1968 with a booming economy.

And I just read that, and I said, why in the hell haven't some of our people built our make the point?

A booming economy and 300 heads every week.

Well, I gave it to Romney, who's going to use it in a speech this week.

I gave it to Stans, who's going to use it in a press conference.

That's right.

Rather than 300 for the summer.

That is a hell of a point.

You know, I hate it, but also the media doesn't use it.

They hate that point.

They hate it, you know.

They don't pick it up.

They know it's wrong.

But haven't they picked it up when you've used it?

I don't know.

I hate when I use it.

I know I didn't.

I know they dropped their pencils.

They don't like it here.

But you see, their whole theory is that, well, we've done very well with water policy, but not with economic policy.

They don't try to do that.

We've got to get that peace, war prosperity over on them so hard.

The bastards have never had peace.

I mean, prosperity without war.

And they haven't.

Sir?

The Democrats.

And that's a tough, bad thing.

I saw it a couple years ago.

They never had it.

Well, where we get it, Mr. President, is if we keep using it.

We've got it in a standard package for all our speakers' use.

We don't see it so much here in Washington, but when a guy goes out and speaks in Denver, he gets a lot of coverage in Denver, and they use it.

It's a mammoth job to get around and get the point.

You have an interesting situation developing that is along the lines of what you and I talked about in Bernstein, Max.

Captain Kirk is going after him.

Very hard.

That's the one that really

They've now had two front page editorials in a row.

I think the greatest thing he did was not to go to that because... Bernstein now says it.

I noticed he didn't go because he had supported...

The Barragans.

Barragans.

Trying to get a hand for bullshit.

He got his support at the Barragans, supported Angela Davis.

And now that...

Son of a bitch.

Well... That was the reason he didn't go, nevertheless.

But it's good you didn't because the hard line...

Well, the hardline Catholic mythology is... Why don't we get, why don't we get a new candidate to get off the line, rather than being cool, because he follows a sacrilegious kind of a thing.

That's what we're doing.

There's a headline, Mass Scene Abusive Spirit, and they're beginning out every week with the standard that's hitting it, warning Catholics not to go to it.

And, of course, we're making, just making fantastic points in that Catholic community.

You know, the

You think so?

Yes.

The Knights of Columbus...

It is showing.

It shows in the poll analysis.

The Knights of Columbus speech, which is just being distributed everywhere.

Cardinal Cook wrote a beautiful little brochure, I should have sent it to you, where he put his statement and your remarks in juxtaposition and sent it to every Catholic in the Archdiocese.

We're getting it.

His point, by the way, is

What he says is that the problem lies in just being President of the United States in this period.

The problem he's discussing is winning without 50% support.

He said, however, as most recent hearings indicate, it is entirely possible for a president to have only minority support if he were elected to a second term.

He talks about the difficulty of anyone because public attitudes have just turned off on government, which is...

Well, it's a very...

How many of you have been coming?

I hope you're reworking on that.

Yes, sir, we are.

Every time I pick up a new summary, I read where Democrats are doing all sorts of things, like they're registering and so forth, and the apparently do not.

Are we doing anything?

We have a registration campaign that is localized, Mr. President.

That is, I kind of get a lot of national attention.

In states that matter.

In areas where we know we can count on the people.

For example, Seventeen Magazine, which is read by a lot of young people.

and has close ties with the retail sewers, are signing up the young employees of the retail sewers who generally tend to be more conservative, particularly in small areas, small towns.

We're working with them.

We've got some mailings going out to high schools this fall, which are excellent on drug prevention.

We have a presidential award that goes to students in various categories, like the President's Physical Fitness Award.

What kind of an issue is this?

What do you want?

They're going to go, you could say, the young people are intelligent, the young people are honest, the young people are, they want peace, they want opportunities, jobs, and so forth without war.

They want a clean environment and quality of life.

And they want to reform.

Do this reform.

What do we offer?

We offer peace.

We offer prosperity and opportunities without war.

We offer the most massive program in the form of government and history.

And we offer the environment.

In other words, in the four great issues, the four great issues of what you want, we are in life.

Yeah, I don't, I think everyone is going to be surprised by the way you will vote in the next election.

We've got to go after our people.

But we are, most of the things that you've written, various memos that have come to you, we now have underway.

The one thing we're slow on is that the operation in 1701, the political operation, has not gone out yet into the field to start their registering.

We've been prodding them every day, but they're

They're approaching that more slowly than I would like.

As far as what we can get done from the White House in terms of communication with youth, we've built that up enormously.

This is a way to do something under the college.

Senators and so forth.

They have a few teams.

Yes, we've done that.

We've had Steiger and Brock and all of those guys.

You've got the whole government.

Well, what we have done is in each of the key states, we have taken 25 young elected

Republican officials and turn them into a kind of a surrogate, a youth surrogate operation.

They are briefed by us and then they go out and speak to young groups about the issues that you're talking about, what young people want.

And it's really what has had a very significant effect is your activism, because that appeals to you.

They not only want change, but they want

forceful activism, and that is giving us a... Well, some of the polls are changing, if you've noticed.

A couple of them recently have showed you outgrowing muskie in certain isolated areas.

Aren't you?

Yeah, there was one Minnesota poll that I just saw, a state poll, that you had 22%, muskie had 19%,

There was a proliferation of others, Agnew, Reagan, McGovern.

The blacks, if the blacks keep organizing the way they are, they...

The school of Harris is amazing.

He's got lines into everybody.

He told me yesterday that Shirley Chisholm had come to Lou through some of her friends, and she had directed him.

And

is serious about running and wanted to know if some of the liberal Jewish community in New York would help raise some money for her.

And, of course, I had that meeting in Chicago this weekend, and she sure sounds like she's coming up.

I'm going to talk.

Do you achieve any votes?

Do you know this?

I'm black.

They talk about Wallace votes going for us every other second.

The black votes, 90% of the black votes that go to the Democrats.

So many votes they get.

80.

All the women in the race.

It's just a total plus if we can get a black candidate, if we can get McCarty the other day.

Well, especially because any black vote that would go for a black candidate is one that would never go for you.

That's what I mean.

They'd all go the other way.

You'd still get black votes.

But...

Those that went for Chisholm or Julian Brown or Stokes would be ones we would never get.

I think that's serious, especially if Musk is the candidate.

I'm convinced there'll be a black candidate.

Why do you think Musk is continuing his black vice president thing?

I mean, he's now figured he's going to make Hagan the solider, but it's not working on him.

Well, I think he's worried about the Tennessee and Florida primaries, which come right together in early.

So he's going to be on the side of the black and white?

Well, I think he made a mistake when he did it, and he doesn't want to compound it by shifting.

He's got to stay with it.

On the other hand, he went into Tennessee the other day, Chattanooga.

We had a planet question.

One of our friends was there and asked him about busing.

and he said he was for busing.

And the headline of the newspaper the next day was, Muskie calls busing a legitimate tool for immigration.

And on the other side was Brock and Baker, uh, finally a constitutional amendment against busing.

And, uh, citing your statements in support of their amendment, Jesus, that's politically devastating how you

if we've got all these statements supporting the constitutional law.

No, but they were said in your statements to the effect that.

One of the things I think is really going to be, and you hit the fan, if you notice that sitting in Michigan by the judge.

Who is that judge?

I'm sure he is not, Mr. President.

I ask him.

You know what that is?

That vice de facto segregation right on the table.

That will be, oh.

But that's, that is.

That is broad implications.

Plus a decision that was handed down involving a hud of parades together that does the same thing.

It's just... Rick, unfortunately, on that issue, he did bite the bullet.

He came out against it.

He came out against buses.

Oh, yeah.

He came out against that issue.

And who's the blacks and who's the whites?

He ought to have had some experience with you.

Basically, it's hard enough to see buses again.

There's no question where the politics are, right?

As I told you on the front of Saturday night in Boston, they canceled it.

They revoked the state plan.

Because the blacks were up in arms and parading out in front of that.

I don't know anybody who thinks it's a political march.

It's wrong.

Blacks are better off in their own schools and their own houses until they're ready to move.

And then, little by little, they move.

That's the way all the minorities have done it.

The Irish didn't all move over to Upper East Side that way, but Maltese and some of the rest started to move in.

They had it the same.

And all groups are that way.

The poor whites and the rich whites and so forth, they're oppressing people, not whites, they're stratification.

You've got the elite 400 and they have a lot of the armored boats.

They're the new leader, the new me.

You know, this is the way it works in society.

It isn't right.

I mean, this is the main point.

Now, maybe it is right.

Maybe that's just the way people are.

But this business that you can take, take your own lives and shove them right into the throats of these people, it will not work.

It's terrible.

Nobody has ever been able to legislate something that runs so contrary to human nature.

Prohibition was a classic example.

This won't, this doesn't work.

And I think busing is exactly that kind of mission.

I love statement.

It's a thick, muscular, fussy thing.

Oh, we, uh, we've had some... Bill Rock was coming back from the plane last night.

I had an interesting point that he, he feels very strongly that, uh,

that Teddy's gonna be the candidate.

He says, Muskie said the thing is don't knock Muskie down too much.

Don't take him on too much.

He feels, I don't know why he feels like he did, but Bill tends to fear Teddy more because of the fact that he says, let's face it, Jeff Quaid will tell him

He has this, uh, Kennedy family, Steve is still there, and he says his family, he still has been offered a place to do places where his, where he turns on the kids and all that sort of thing.

What's your analysis of that?

Turns on the kids, yes, and he turns on the blacks, and he turns on the poor.

And the women?

Them?

No.

Jesus, no.

No one.

But that isn't a minority, that isn't a, that, you can't make a majority out of that, Mr. Wilson.

And the stridency of his campaign,

would enable you to do something that I think would absolutely assure re-election.

You could rise above him and be the very stable statesman president while he's around the country arousing passions in the ghettos, which scares the hell out of people.

I don't see any way that Ted Kennedy could be elected.

He's got too many people

I haven't reached this.

I think Peter's dead.

He said it on the Pentagon paper.

Yeah.

Do you think that could fix him?

Well, some people have asked about it on his, on his, uh, if he had enough fascination.

And he fudged all over the place and damn near announced his candidacy.

But I think he's dead.

I think Peter should kill him.

Well, I don't think Peter is, uh, he's a parent and a secretary.

He does most of the workshop.

I mean, he's just a... Yeah, I think he had the same view as the staff, almost, when he got here.

Yeah, and he was out, interesting, he was out in Minnesota this week, railing at the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Oh, why?

Because they don't care about farmers, and then he's back here catering to the Washington Post.

He's just all things to all people, and he's been that too long.

I think, I really think the Pentagon Papers...

He's never recovered in the polls since then.

He's never come up.

He took a bad drop and he's held a certain level.

Yes, sir.

Some of them.

McGovern, I think, is.

No, I think Harris is in this to try to be a power broker, and I think he'd like to be vice president.

I think they're all running the campaign for vice president.

Oh.

I think the only, I think even Jackson is to a degree, although he, he feels he might build a coalition around labor and the funeral centrists in the party.

He's not going anyplace.

He might.

He doesn't have it.

He might.

I don't think he's got any.

I think Jackson.

Because you see, he's fine looking.

He's got a good voice.

He's got a good brain.

But speaking of, I see there is none in Jackson.

I mean, you know, he's got to have a little.

He's got to be able to stir up.

I don't see Jackson stirring anybody up.

Do you?

No, he doesn't.

Well, when he gives his tough war on order speech to the leaders, he really stirs them up.

Well, that's the one place where he's got something to him.

This has got to end more than anything.

One of the points I'd like to add is that we've had a great reaction to the Citizens Committee on the economic effort on the outside.

They're a tremendous response.

All kinds of people signed up.

The first ad was in yesterday's Washington Post, which was very, very effective.

Yeah.

But they're getting support, they're getting money, and a lot of enthusiasm.

Thank you for that.

Uh, wait just a minute, while Henry's here, I want you to sit down.

Uh, we are, uh, talking about, uh, putting some bags on this, uh, actually, he's up here in the bridge, so it's a real tough day in the morning.

given reports of how it stands and how you feel, and what really the problem is, what is involved here.

You see, Henry, it has nothing to do now with talking to these people and this and that, whether we're on a good plan.

We may do this or that.

We may have to reveal what our program has been and how you screwed up and so forth.

It's now gotten to a total co-political deal with that.

100% partisan.

The only reason that Mansfield has put the amount of that in is because he knows that the headcount in the House is bad on instructing the countries.

Bad for us.

But of course, the more our people talk about how

You know, when McGregor says he won't be surprised that we put a deadline on it, the more of an incentive they have to do it.

But what they're trying to do is to get there first.

They're trying to get there first.

What we have to realize is this.

We have no illusions about what we're going to do.

We have to realize that the situation is what we expected in January is arriving in October.

Here's the cold turkey back.

Members of the House who have stood like a rock on Vietnam time and time again.

All the Democratic members virtually except maybe 37ers and unfortunately some Republicans.

want to be on record ahead of the president, knowing that we are going to be on the opposite side.

And that's the vote they did against on the other side.

See, they go back home.

And in a very simple way, the simple question is, why are you voted against getting out of Vietnam?

The president got his side.

Isn't that pretty good?

Yeah, yeah.

Precisely.

Thank you.

It's strictly a magic question.

Yeah, but they won't be able to do it anyway.

won't be able to walk.

They can't make that claim.

We just know too much.

Well, they'll make it.

They'll make it.

The question is, I don't know whether they can make the statement.

Well, the point is, it's irrelevant.

It's not a meeting point.

The point is that it's a question of what their action does to our negotiation.

Well, I must say, Mr. President, we've been hanging on by a thread for...

For years, we've got no business still being alive in the face of total irresponsibility on the... What we are concerned about here is not, is not at all politics.

What we're concerned about, you see, Chuck, is that we still, we do still have some innovative options.

I have...

I told Son of a Bitch Mansfield that, and he knows it.

And I think, as a matter of fact, we told him two months ago, but the reason that Mansfield still oppresses Son of a Bitch knows as a partisan

That we may pull it off, and he wants to get there first.

That's what they're doing.

That's all that's involved.

It has nothing to do with their not wanting to be strong and all the rest.

It has to do with the total, that desire, just who ended the war.

It's making the point over and over again.

We've got to be sure that Nixon does not get the credit for making the war.

So they might end the war.

See my point?

Well, you know what that caucus is that they talk about.

Hell, it's perfectly obvious when it comes out of the caucus that they discuss, we've got to get the credit of the Democratic Party for running the war.

We can't let them take the credit.

Well, they can't do it.

I mean, the party that cut us into the war can't get credit.

Well, what's the practical proposal?

Oh, you're totally disappointed.

We're not making a proposal.

Colson is on our side.

We'll be trying to fight it.

We're trying to get Ford to line up 100%.

We're going to do it here.

The point is that we're probably faced at this time with the fact that we may lose it in October.

That's the point.

If we're going to lose it, we have to be, we have to have in mind what our options are.

I think we're going to fight it like hell.

That's one of the reasons we have the leaders.

I'm going to lay the blame, I'm going to lay the blame on hard Republican leaders today.

And I'll see you there, secondly, of course.

And Albert, secondly.

But the point is that we are, the vote is extremely close.

It isn't like these others where there was a question of where you could go to an honest, decent man and say, look, you're going to hurt us on our negotiations, which we've done one or two times.

Now it will not work.

Now we're too close to the end.

See my point?

It took those, they're looking at the campaign here as having started.

But we also have too many people around here who keep saying it won't be an issue and therefore give them that incentive.

If we could keep everyone quiet here, we could talk to some of these people more convincingly.

If they think that on November 15th we're going to announce a total withdrawal, then of course they will want to be out October 30th.

And they can't be convinced that those two weeks make any difference.

Well, politically, politically, they will try to get enough of this by jumping, jumping ahead on the issue, no matter what we do, or what we in the neighborhood do.

I don't think it's a question, but I think there's a team in the back there.

I'm sorry, I just had an idea.

What would you think, having the Attorney General go right over with you and just walk in with me with that thing, which would make it more kind of low-key

Alright, what time is it?

Come on.

I've got an empty week.

Quarter of?

Twenty-one.

I guess twenty-one.

Alright, fine.

Don't come, like I said.

No press.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think, Mr. President, if this is passed, then we haven't got a trail for what we're doing.

That's the reason that I'm raising the point that we've got to find out what we're trying to do.

We're trying to raise a list.

We're trying to decide what the law is for our side.

to delay the goddamn thing.

But how long do you think we could maintain the lowest return?

Well, there's a lot of democratic amendments to cut back on various military programs.

You know, you can talk bills for a long time.

You could keep that bill.

And we do not need an investment curve back at this point.

If we can keep the bill till December, then we can make it.

So you can't do that?

Well, I shouldn't say you can't.

You couldn't.

See, actually, the one you see being brought up is being debated on the Senate floor now.

And the man's field amendment

It's being offered for a vote tomorrow, and it passed last time, 61 to 38, so we know that that was another check.

We know it's going to pass this time, but that isn't a problem.

Point is, it does not go to the House until the bill passes.

That's right.

When the bill goes, it's passed the House.

I know.

Before that, it doesn't go, the vote does not come out to the House until the bill passes, and they have to point boundaries in order to do it, so that's what we've been trying to think of some way to get the goddamn thing delayed.

I have to look at it.

He's introducing his exact text of his old resolution with a shorter deadline.

The only change I can occur of is the change from 9 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

Of course they won't accept it anyway.

I know they won't accept that.

So the procedure, Mr. President, how that appointment of countries works, I guess, yes, I didn't know.

So after the bill is returned to the Senate, then the House either receives or asks for countries.

Yeah, well, anyway, so the longer we wait in the Senate, the longer we can delay it.

I think maybe that's when I want to get caught up.

Let's get you to be sure that it's all delayed.

And to speak it to, they all know that some announcements are going to be made November 15th.

No matter what, we want to keep our record so we don't have to announce something.

But you see, the problem is that they just want to get in and on first, that's all.

They know they're, well, they can count.

They see that on November the 15th that Senator Pritchett got 184,000, they can count him.

That's the problem we're in front of.

This is the most irresponsible political party we've ever seen.

Because they know that to the extent there is a negotiation going on, it screws it up.

Now, we're not going to use that point anymore with him, though, I mean.

I'll tell you why.

I'd use it with Mansfield.

He knows goddamn well.

No, it triggers him even more.

Exactly.

As a matter of fact, remember when we called a man before, and we all decided, all right, I'd tell the son of a bitch, I'd say, look here, Mike, I'm killing him.

What was it?

We made that man up.

I think it's a mistake.

I mean, we're trying to appeal to his better nature.

Our little mighty people are under as well.

Oh, Michael, if you just saw him, hell, all of those, and Jesus Christ, we better get in there with the ladies and sons.

I think as a matter of fact, we ought to play it maybe the other way.

We ought to make it appear nothing's going to happen.

On the other hand, you've got the problem of our bourgeois republicans.

Everyone in the House, forget the Senate.

Now there's no need to try the Senate.

But in the House, we've got the problem of the republicans.

Each of them comes up, and here's the vote.

What does he say?

What I told the wife when they were in the other day, I don't know whether that works with the House, I don't even know if it works with the wife, I said, can you really believe that the President would make a big play on everything else?

would be just diddling along in Vietnam.

No.

No way.

See, that argument will be just totally counterproductive to the Democrats.

It'll kill us with the Democrats.

See, that is why Mike is doing this here.

And even Albert would play that game.

Yeah, let's face it.

I'm a little concerned that Albert is talking this way because maybe he is one of the purest.

But part of that is...

Of course it doesn't force us to do anything anyway.

Nothing.

It's been done through that.

I'd simply say that in terms of what our negotiating position is, of course not.

We'll do what we goddamn please.

But my point is, the negotiating position...

It would hurt us.

Huh?

It would hurt us.

Because they say, well, look, the Congress is going to cut off their money anyway.

Well, how about getting the amendment?

Is there any way to tell me that the amendment could be modified to make it less...

There's no way

how they can make stick that they got us out of the war on any conceivable.

We can get them on the defensive in a foreseeable future.

The only question is what we...

They can't make that stick.

What they can do is take the credit away.

No, they can't do that.

Chuck, you don't know what's going on, so they cannot do that.

Basically what I'm saying is that's what they think.

That's what they think.

But we know that they can't.

Well, looking at it in a cold, black and white way, the way it is, you see, they will vote it.

And then, so we will then preach from the housetops then on and say, well now here is the record of what we have done, and put it all out.

And the sophisticates may see that I'm thinking in terms of what they're thinking.

And I might, because I'm glad they thought this through, too.

What they're thinking will win with the sophisticates, but they will win with the folks.

Because they will oppose it.

But we said, I want to hand the war six months earlier, or three months earlier, and the president got his offers.

I'm done.

No, I wouldn't argue, Mr. President.

It's just like the impact your August 15th speech had on the economy.

Anything good that happens, you get credit for.

They will argue, if they pass this, that anything subsequent that happens is because they passed that amendment.

You know, if the POWs are returned, it's because that amendment was passed.

If anything happens, it provides for selling to POWs.

So I'm going to cover that case.

I know the amendment very well.

I think we should delay it as much as possible, but we shouldn't give too many more hostages.

by trying to negotiate a compromise.

We lose every time we do that.

Compromise?

A compromise resolution.

Look, we, uh, we didn't get one before.

Well, we got it sourced a little.

Oh, you mean the draft bill, the draft bill.

See, you got it.

We bought that awfully well.

You've got to give Adrian and these guys credit.

We bought that goddamn thing right out of the water.

Oh, yeah, but we did, we won it partly because of the China announcement in between.

Now in Hebert, if we can get the house, we're in good shape.

If we can get the house again, Hebert will be terrific.

Then we have something to work with.

No, that's what I mean.

If we could get the instructions.

Then they've got to win the vote in the House to get an instruction.

That's right.

It's up or down.

In that case, my guess is they're going to need to go to Congress.

It's one of the does of the committee, though.

Because he feels strongly about it.

For sure, he's vetoed this bill, too.

This bill isn't always important.

Sure.

to make a dramatic case out of each other.

It just does too much.

I think what we have to do is say, well, that doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

I do think that it's important to get the language changed, and this was a very important change, and the other one, to make it advisable as much as possible rather than compulsive.

I think that's the only thing that I think there should really be that at all in the negotiation.

And we can just piss it away in our own business.

I'll do the best I can.

But the main thing is delay.

Let's delay these things, Chuck.

As anybody that I've said, because I'm not a couple of leaders, I can't get them in position.

But I agree that we've got to be delayed.

It's one of the most disgraceful episodes in American history.

Well, this is so cheap.

We have only one, after all, both parties should have only one interest to get out with some dignity.

Well, we're still going to make it.

I tell you, we're still going to make it.

But what we're trying to do right now just happens to be, it always is never a good time for this kind of a vote.

This happens to be a very bad time.

Ah, I will see you.

I'll see you later.

I'll see you next Sunday.

Sunday.

Next Sunday.

Good.

I'll be on the way.

Yes, I will tomorrow.

All right.

Thank you.

I...

He, uh, here it is.

He's talking about something.

I forgot, uh, I don't know, uh, son of a bitch.

You know something, I don't, you know, I, you shouldn't be seeing this.

God, I don't know what you're looking at.

He did such a, he represents one thing, you know, you've got some people in your organization.

I'm just gonna sit there and listen to the son of a bitch and that Roger's responding, you know.

What do you think?

It's such a ridiculous bunch of assholes.

Ridiculous.

Aren't they?

I read your, I read the, I read the, I read the review with points on it, and I must say, for us to waste our time with these jackasses, they want me to announce something about a consulate someplace or something.

Oh, that news is good.

That African department is as bad as a Latin American department.

Yeah, almost.

A little better, but they're impossible.

No, these are for the crew.

The long one is for what you should discuss with them during the day.

Thank you.

MacGregor is the guy who's giving us more trouble because he's going around crying all over here.

I know he was at a swirling breakfast and said, I would not be surprised if the president announced a total withdrawal on November 15th.

But of course, if he says that, everyone tries to preempt him.

No, Chuck is fine.

He's fine.

Oh, Chuck is terrific.

Oh, yeah, he's terrific.

What the hell would you do here?

I'm just trying to think of anything else.

Let's don't give the house to him.

Oh, my God.

I think, Mr. President, I think what you said to me on the plane yesterday is the way to do it.

Also, Mr. President, if we, I think out of October 5th and 12th announcement, it won't help with the Senate, but if we go to the House and say there's still enough papers...

That's quite honest with my view.

Jerry Smith called me this morning.

Said he was appalled that the New York Times didn't even give any play to the accidental war agreement.

They didn't?

No.

He said, what about what were you involved?

Yes, of course.

God is bigger than anything the Kennedys did.

Why did they do that?

Because they don't want to build us up.

I remember when it came about, I remember you were telling me you thought it was quite a story.

I did.

And that we would want to do it this time.

And I frankly didn't say it.

But I listened to his stories.

And I saw that he'd forgotten the heart of this decision.

And nobody ever asked me about it or anything.

So I had to do that.

Nobody was trying.

Nobody was asking me about the goddamn thing.

Maybe from that point of view, you ought to go.

No.

No, it isn't.

It looks a little eager.

It hurts us with the Russians and the Chinese.

It doesn't mean that much.

We didn't have the announcement coming.

Oh, then there's no question about it.

See my point?

Yeah.

When the announcement comes, I don't know if we do accidental war.

That's what I think.

That's right.

But in the meanwhile, is there any way we can get across the accidental war?

I don't know.

Well, I could give the background to you.

That's what Smith wanted me to do.

I wonder if it's worth your wasting the background on that subject.

But maybe Smith ought to give one.

I think he ought to.

All right, why don't you... Why don't I call him and say the President would appreciate it?

The President feels very strongly that you ought to have a...

I'll give you the background.

He said, we got a little wise to what a great achievement this is.

Good.

Why doesn't he step on it?

I have some people waiting.

I have thought about it, Mr. President, how to present this plan.

And I think your instinct is that I ought to.

I think we ought to hand it over to the North Vietnamese in Paris.

That way we know what day.

October 9th, 1809.

That is after the Chinese announcement, but before the Soviet announcement.

say, a week from his bride.

And then?

Then what's next?

Then we offer to see them in Paris.

You spell out the announcement that Chew is going to resign?

No.

I'll put in the announcement.

No, excuse me.

In the letter, in the message, what will you put in the notice?

The notice will say that Chew is not coming to.

That Chew will sit down a month before the election.

But let the left put in the fact that he's not going to run.

That'll keep for the negotiations.

Right.

And if it occurs, then suppose they don't respond.

They will respond.

But if they don't respond, then you might be able to go public in November.

But that's what they have on the other hand.

We've got what they have at that time on record.

the Jews are not willing not to run at all.

There's no doubt for them, Mr. President, that they will come and talk it over, because I will put in the note, we cannot put in writing that the Jews are going to run.

That all gives them too much of a life of crap.

I was going to, the reason I asked the question, if you ever said that, the son of a bitch will leave.

Exactly.

And that will destroy you.

So this gives the men out to bring them back.

There's no doubt in my mind.

And I think, when I see Corita without others follow the line you mentioned, I will say that if they want to do something, and if they can bring her in range, then we can consider many things.

and dangle the Middle East to one of the eastern states necessary, but if we were soon to settle it, I'd be prepared to come to Moscow secretly.

But I don't think I should transmit it to them.

What is it?

What is the maximum that we can say without comparing the negotiating position in November and August?

I don't know if I bring this up, but in maximum we can say it's end of sending ground seats, end of ground combat, and then sun rays for two months, say 40,000.

Could we say that the Vietnamization has now been concluded?

Well, then they'll say, why don't you get out now?

Vietnamization as far as the ground is.

I'm just trying to say, well, I guess you can't even say that.

But I think in January, I guess you have to do that.

But there has to be one point, and one point regardless of what happens or we don't, where we have a categorical shift.

And it can't be in November, I wish, but we've got a category, isn't it?

Now the war is concluded.

I think it's the best, and if you don't get it, we've got to say, I'm happy to say, the optimization has now succeeded.

It's concluded the American role, Sandy, and they still got prisoners, except for 50,000 residual force, which we will keep the prisoners.

You can't go lower than 50,000 if you go to 20,000.

Sorry, please.

Once you are below 70, you can't fight anymore.

So I would say by January 15th, Mr. President, is come on high water.

You should lay out the final program.

I think your November 15th announcement, you're going to catch them so off-bed that they won't know how to launch an attack on us.

If you give only two months at a rate, then they'll think probably we're going to announce everything in January.

Yeah, but you'll be way ahead of them because countries won't... Can we prepare, can we prepare Rockies and Laird for the fact that America may not be as kind on us?

Yeah, Roger's agreed, sir.

Uh, Laird, Laird is going on a trip to Vietnam, and we've got to get him under control before he leaves.

Yes, sir.

If you would help yourself, Mr. President, by supposing you went the other route and announced the vote in November 15th, they'll just start hacking away at the length of time.

But by January 15th, you can have them in a position where we've all had everything in negotiations, and it's a question of...

Within our own internal fandom, though, we have got to indicate to Rogers and Laird that we're negotiating something.

Not too bad, but I'll just, well, find that Roger's way and tell him God has him.

I know that.

He'll leave.

Well, Roger knows where he goes.

Oh, yeah.

All I tell him, but I'll just ask that they just come in to talk to me.

I wouldn't give them the precise details.

Oh, I agree.

I agree.

But yet, I will have seen them before your November 15th announcement.

After that, we can tell Rogers it's very hot and active, and therefore you're due only two months.

You should get a message order, sir.

No.

Not before the election.

And not before the Chinese announcement, Mr. President.

But we couldn't...

I can't see them anywhere before the jury is.

It'll take three weeks to think about it.

It couldn't be that they had to discuss the implications of the British flying

You think those implications are that serious to them?

I'm trying to get the information from the British.

Well, there's more than one way to scan this cat in the Congress.

I think that the way I figured out though is, is that that's delay.

Delay, that's why I thought I'd get Mitchell and Haas and get, and we got decent Supreme Court nominees over here so that I can have them argue about that a while if we get them talking about that.

That'd be good.

I'd get delayed, and I'd do what you said on the plane yesterday, that they will have the responsibility if it turns communist.

Oh, I say that every time.

And we'll continue to.

That's what they're doing.

It's a national discrepancy.

Our church is discrepancy.

It is, but look how well we've done.

Look, I'm actually happy to take a trip.

Unless Saigon gets unstuck, I'm quite optimistic.

How safe do you feel?

He thinks it can manage.

He said he prevented panicking by being there.

And at your press conference, without it, it would have collapsed.

It came at a good time, didn't it?

Yes, it did.

He figured I wouldn't be there at the end of the session.

Unless you want me to.

No, Bill.

I want somebody there who'll get the son of a bitchy meeting over so we can waste some time.

It's supposed to be 30 minutes, but he's going to be speaking in French.

Bob, you've got to screw up the schedule here.

It says 30 minutes for the Africans.

The son of a bitch doesn't speak English.

I can't beat five African ambassadors and so forth in 30 minutes.

It was never 15 minutes for me.

You know, you threw them all together so you wouldn't have a separate phenomenon.

I have never seen a meeting between the five ambassadors and the head of the organization perhaps.

It takes place in 15 minutes.

Are ambassadors, is that your center, not part of the meeting?

Is that not correct?

No, they're not sitting.

They sit.

They don't talk.

If they talk, they talk, and you respond, and that's all.

You think you've got over 30 minutes?

And so, it's not going over you.

He's going with Mark.

Mark needs to leave.

He got a look out of you.

I want Mark.

That's right.

He got a look out of you.

He didn't win.

But there are days she was supposed to respond.

Could we move that private signing then?

15 minutes.

Yeah.

And, uh...

I guess it's just about I know who's got that hammer.

She's gonna have pictures taken.

Just get it true.

Make it 345, make the big 4.

Could you take the 415?

Sure.

We've got to get it somewhere that we can.

We'll do that anyway.

My name's Dr. Colson.

I'm a grader.

I'm a better...

He takes my graders out talking about undercutting, like I say.

The reason I think we might, a lot of people think we might.

I'm sure it didn't say we were budgeted.

I told Henry that once.

He gets back to this.

This is a suburban group or some specific question.

Would you be surprised if there were an announcement?

No, I wouldn't be surprised if there were an announcement.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there were not an announcement.

into a question when we got an answer you didn't want.

But I wanted to stick with McGregor.

McGregor is fighting our battles to calm down.

On this funeral run, you don't want us to tell the wires?

No, sir.

I'll do it my way.

Okay.

I'll decide.

That's just the way I feel about it.

I just got a few minutes off and I decided to go in a spur of the moment.

And so the wires sounded out.

And that's just too bad.

They'll go out there with them.

It's a big story.

Fine.

The president just sort of called up his car and got through it with me.

I just feel like, well, I'm here.

And I just feel a little better.

I'm not exploiting the son of a bitch in general.

Because I can get...

You've got to stick to the light.

If that's the only terrible mistake, it's the one you've got to accept.

So when I'm back, I'm going to change those on you.

That's what I'm going to do.

Bob, let me finish that for you.

Okay.

And rather than be worth your understanding, I have the same feeling about religious services.

I have the same feeling about carolers.

And the rest, I do not like to exploit.

That's my part of you, and I'm just not going to let you change it for us.

I don't want to talk about it.

I'm just not going to let you have a view of church.

I'm not going to be church.

And so, you know, in any case, it's a good point.

It's a good point.

And when you walk in, you're there.

You can't go in.

And just after that, 15 minutes after that, they let me know.