Conversation 579-010

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All right.

How are you, sir?

Nice to see you.

Just get out over here.

All right.

twice.

We'll be talking about tax and so forth on various matters.

I would suggest to you that you see what you want to do.

Well, I was given a list of five things, Mr. President, and they gave me a list like that.

I don't know what those, if that's the best of those, maybe something else.

I'll be honest, I'm going to be off, but you've got the same list for yesterday.

That's not my thing.

All right, the first one here at this stage refers only to the house, and that's the tax package.

Right.

Your committee has voted up a bill.

They did some things that added to the cost of your proposal, one of which they added a little 7% reduction on pickup trucks that only costed

$360 million a year total receipts.

Treasury Department come along with it.

Yes.

Now that's different because it goes into the trust fund and your passenger thing does not.

And here you're trying to divert money from the trust fund and you've lost $360 million a year on it.

It's unbelievable.

Then they added some on this low-income house.

And the bill...

The report is being written.

The Committee on Rules has agreed to meet on the rule on Thursday.

And I'm sure they'll grant the rule.

It will be a closed rule.

It will be programmed, according to the speaker, probably next Wednesday.

And it will be a one-day process that goes over and abides your law.

Right.

How was your prospect?

Well, I didn't have a very strong strategy, but you said it.

Well, perfect, Gerald.

Before you do that, I'd like you to visualize on the center action.

after you get it well done.

The Senate says that if the House holds to its House schedule, they're best, and I'm serious, I chose sentence and finish in a week.

I'll be taking mark-ups for a week and send the bill to the floor of the Senate.

Best estimate.

Taking complete action on the site by the end of October.

Nicely made offshore devices that lead the committee to capture Mandeville and many along such lines as Pampas themselves might have ended if it was sent to the floor as a clean package.

One item certainly may have ended is the idea of an individual transfer.

Yeah, I'm sure you get that.

Well, that's the best review I can give you on that.

Well, what do you want?

and it screws around for thousands of years.

Well, I think the obvious first thing is to work closely with Wally Bennett and get his reading on Russell.

On Russell, I've filed an indicated, indicated opposition to the oral excise tax repeal.

He's probably doing it in order to trade off something, and we'll find other trade offs, but Wally's the best man in finding for us.

And, uh,

I don't know why they came to the office.

I snatched the first one and returned it to Mike.

Oh, it goes to Glennon.

Yes, the Senate.

Oh, yes, he goes to the Senate.

We're making problems.

This is an old, clean bill on the Senate.

It's where everybody's going to have a hack at it.

They'll all want to collect their little ones and reduce taxes and they'll have to bid each other and make things better than that.

But try to keep in mind that if we tell Bruce about it live in the Finance Committee and Bob's on that, do you want to have anything to do with it?

No, I don't know.

I think the country is pretty good.

Bob doesn't seem to have any information.

That's the important thing.

There you go.

Do you think, then, that it will be through the Senate by the first of November?

They say, by next committee, that they wish to do it until the last two weeks of October.

I urge you, as the leaders, then, to pass the word down the line, and we have very, very, that cover that you can, to talk in terms of urgency, and also in terms of keeping it as close as they can to what we recommend, and not roll the lid off the budget.

And I can do that.

It's very important that you do it very, very hard.

And I can tell you, Bob, you have a very great interest in this, because of the damn auto effects I've seen.

go over and he's around.

You know, the big ones didn't do it in America, but they've got to get that going.

I mean, I just feel that we've got to listen.

We've got to go ahead and say, I can't keep on lagging away in these presses of cops just 10 minutes before 10 in the morning.

Well, I'm not there to kill him.

We want to have an end on that fellow on that street.

Well, these automobile dealers, among others, had a big building fire.

There's a... Well, now, what the hell are they doing, Thomas?

Get the word to Colson on that for you.

Yes, sir.

He deals with those people all the time.

And, you know, I follow that all the religion.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry for you.

You promised.

Well, he is, he is.

Well, I'll tell you what they need.

They need to really put the heat on those senators.

Don't write us.

We could have all gone down.

Tell the senator not to do that.

I'll tell you that.

We'll follow up with that.

He wants to talk to all of us.

You call him and say, I just want to greet you.

Say, just say, Bob, you and I were talking, and I said, Art can do so much.

You know, we don't understand it, but he gets going.

He said, hello, Sam, I'm Mary.

What are those two of us?

That's true.

Also, they're all very accomplished.

They've used that one.

All right.

You got one?

Shall I go?

Yes, sir.

What's pending now, maybe four or five days, is essentially an amendment which we understand the administration favors to strike out these Harriet Blaine's and the McDonald-Hemplis contract.

Or a part of it on the ground is a duplication of funds that you pay for them twice a year.

Mr. Simon and Mr. Lewis.

Tomorrow is Nelson's event on the Sandman Project, two hours approximately, on F-14, two hours.

Hughes on ABM, an hour and a half.

He says he's very elusive and he may withdraw.

Saxby has an ABM event in which a couple is going to offer until...

He went to Health Secretary and found out facts, and that's the work of a production of AVM, a condition of the result of the, uh, song talks.

He has not shown us the language, two hours.

Thursday, he'll come down and make a viral check, two hours.

Pulled right off Rhodesia Grove, two hours.

Must get Mansfield for a minute, uh, on Monday.

Time to get from Friday on Monday.

Montoya hasn't managed.

He decides to come back to Santa Fe.

uh, to tell us how to conduct the election in Saigon election this Sunday so we could spend money.

I'm going to have to be a man of the law.

I've not got words, but I've got to go to the parliament until I can talk to you.

I've been settled on Spanish.

And when he tells me, he has mentioned it to you, that's where your plans are going to last 15 minutes.

Got his place now, half-side, three houses, good.

And wants me to notify him before 5.30 today if I can.

He and I both think that the shorter the time that I should magnify the issue, we have not changed any of those.

Tom has just changed.

He has well made change.

And we haven't much else.

He had our machine open, and I didn't.

So we may go with that Thursday for three hours.

If that's all right.

What is the strategy best for how to breathe to me?

Oh, I was going to take an hour.

Take an hour.

Is that going to be in that Thursday or this Thursday?

This Thursday.

Yeah.

Oh, I'll take an hour and a half.

Yeah.

I'll take one more for an hour.

So let's say an hour and a half altogether.

Yes.

federal police waste deferral, as you know.

Columbia?

Oh, yes, sir.

I've never heard of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Does that mean you'll finish the procurement bill by Friday?

No, we would hope to finish it Monday if somebody comes in with a deal like this.

Well, I've told her all of it, except sometimes it's a blouse amendment.

Unless there's no time.

We'll finish it on Monday, and then come back to the House to go to conference on Tuesday.

If you have the Mansfield Amendment, there's no problem.

If you have the Mansfield Amendment, and we have a vote, we'll have a vote on instructing conferees to accept the Senate version.

Somebody, I'm sure, is going to

I don't think my best guess, they haven't told us, but I think we have to assume that.

What do you think of us?

Well, I haven't heard that.

I hadn't heard it, but somebody might do it.

I don't know if there's any way I can go to see Carl O'Connor if we couldn't put him off to this day.

And he's important.

I don't know if he's our Carl.

But that still wouldn't prevent somebody from doing it.

No, it wouldn't prevent somebody from doing it.

Well, I think it would be all right.

I think we might candidate for it.

I think the worst he would do would be neutral, but that's not good enough.

Carl's got to be affirmative with us and oppose him.

And I think we would then move to table.

And I think we could prevail if Carl was affirmative.

because uh seldom do we instruct house down freeze before they go to a conference on what they ought to do with the conference particularly when it's a senate amendment not argument so uh

We'll have to play this by ear, except let's get Carl before he gets committed after you've talked with you and Eddie about it.

Tell this body to rule the house on this, and it will be our position to do it.

Not with me.

Could we, and maybe, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Could we have a, there's one thing, too, that I should also know.

Yeah.

You know, we should say nothing about it, because the,

except that if I were approaching that, it would be a non-problem.

We've just got to realize that we've had, frankly, a lot of success

Now what you really get down to here is a cold, tricky political proposition.

and I'm trying to figure out a proposition for these veterans, and I demand to be able to write it, and Mike, probably God, but Mike basically is as partisan as he can be on an issue like this, and Mike is better, he actually said that in the conference, you know, he was pretty good at it.

What it was involved, and what it is, is a question he has to come up with, you know.

They are afraid that the credit, and there will be credit, for attending the war that they got us into will go to the President rather than to the Congress.

Everything the Congress has done, everything, believe me, has hurt our efforts every goddamn day.

The Mansfield Amendment, this debate and so forth, on several occasions when we have had negotiations and issues, they've been harmful.

And that's just the two or four of them.

Unfortunately, we can't say that until it's all over.

But we will.

And now the real question is, are we putting our guys in a hollow spot here?

I mean, Jerry, I know the Senate probably do this.

Are we putting our guys in a spot where they feel that they have to go up there and vote against the Senate?

I think everybody wants to support him.

They all want to get out in front of him.

If somebody offers a motion to instruct conspiracy, and we get somebody like Eddie A. Barrett to take it, it's not a vote on the issue.

It's a vote on the parliamentary situation.

At least you'd make that decision.

You've got three in your conference.

I would hope you could try to get Carmen.

Hey, at last, for Christ's sake, he trusted on this thing.

That's it.

If they could go to Carl tomorrow and get him to be on our side, we could win this, and this is the last one you have to fight, really.

Well, you're going to have to get him at 4-8, Bill.

At what?

4-8.

Authorization.

That'll be tougher.

He doesn't come.

I tell the press this morning that this is a race between your successful actions and a sense of desire and courage.

Well, you see, you'd like to be able to say that we're going to do this or that, you can expect this and that, but it's really a question of how we

and we slice this at the right time, we just, you know what I mean, it'd be very easy to do something precipitate, and then next summer have something wrong, and that's really what you get down to.

But we're, it's gonna work, I can assure you, but we just cannot have, I don't mind that race for the credit, if they do not destroy the energy, you see, that's the problem.

Much good, I don't want to start on another issue touching on this, and that is,

What plans are being made to counter the bad public impact after the election Sunday?

Are they going to have a whirlwind of reprimandation in the press all across the country?

I was hoping we could develop some tactic as to how to... Because I don't know any American who thinks that if they want Matt Washington's right, all of a sudden it doesn't matter what they're doing.

We can't... You tell them, because the U.S. isn't going to be right.

It doesn't count for criticism.

It's a real problem.

But isn't it amazing?

Some of these liberals are now trying to sanctify men who was an assassin.

A year ago, they wouldn't let down the United States.

I mean, this is how illogical they are.

I just met with the organization of African community.

The 40 black African countries, they're not a goddamn lot of them as the leaders of the black African countries.

They might as well be their little black African country.

They're not just happy to do it.

Oh, they're not happy to do it.

They're not happy to do it.

They say, how about Columbia?

They only contested elections in Columbia.

They tried to revive it.

And that's the best.

Mexico.

Sure.

It's San Juan.

And so they go out and contest it.

What I'm getting at is that, actually, this is a tough one to have.

But he was right in terms of, there is a double standard.

But they're coming home.

They have a contested election for the legislature.

You know what I mean?

And a third of that legislature, as a matter of fact, 40% of it is in the opposition.

You saw the 28 senators, you know.

That's the first of our nation, our president, ran for the opposition.

You sure did.

Twice.

I'm not so sure we can compare two with the first one.

But it's the same kind of a situation.

But the church has to tell me, we are like, you're in a meeting with other nations, but we'd be willing to make an exception.

I mean, if you're already in a meeting, stop that election.

We have to have it.

Well, I said that would be shocking.

Well, I said no nation in the world would protect me from doing it.

Well, that's the situation on a military procurement.

If we see it, it would depend on what you and Eddie can find out from Colonel.

There's one other possibility as far as the tactics in the Senate is concerned.

We wouldn't want to do it unless we could count the votes, but...

We could offer a substitute, which would be the Congress agreement that he did approve before.

If we could get the votes to do that, then...

I'm ready to have them come down.

That would be fine.

That would incentivize us.

I don't know about the other hand.

We wouldn't want to lose on that either.

I don't know about the other hand.

That would be less of a danger as that.

Yeah, the Congress would be frozen if it was going to be so.

Well, we're out of the park, but let's see whether we can get it to change it.

Now, here they are.

Well, it was pretty decisive.

Well, I think you've done a great job.

I just raised this political point because I can see the one he made.

He said it's a race between our success in doing something and their efforts to claim credit.

How the hell can you be somebody that's got to be arrested and siloed?

They sanitized our hands, believe me, since the most period possible.

Well, you will talk to, try to get Carl to stand firm.

He's a good guy.

How much pressure will, you know, I had to practice with him today, and it was great.

I said, God, I can see the pressure.

Well, the next item is one that we're faced with on next Tuesday.

That's this federal wage deferral matter.

And there's a development that I'm sure George is committed to.

And that's this bill that Mo Udall dreamed up, which says that notwithstanding any provisions and so forth,

What it says is that the federal employees shall not be required to suffer anymore in a pay cutback or hold down in the employees in the private sector.

Now, there is a very bad provision here.

I'm sure that it's been studied over here, but it reads as follows.

But nothing in this act should be construed to provide any adjustment in the rates of pay of any federal statutory pay system which are greater than the adjustments based on the 71 Bureau of Labor's statistics.

oh no, here, shall not be greater than the highest of any wage or salary adjustment that may be authorized under any wage or salary stabilization or issued by the president under authority of the statute.

So in other words, if the cost of living constant says that a number of employees in the private sector get 6% or 8%

then the federal employees would not be called upon to make any greater sacrifices.

So I'm sure there's going to be some wage adjustments in the second phase that will be, what, five, six percent?

There has to be in some specific cases, I would think, George.

There are a lot of things to be said, many of which we've already said in numerous meetings.

I don't need to repeat them, but I think on that bill, there are two things to be said.

One is that the bill presumes the nature of Phase 2.

As it presumes that in Phase 2, the President or the Constitution

and say that the permitted wage increases so much, and then on the basis of that, the federal increase will be so much.

That's presumed by that bill, and that may be so, but it may not be so.

The president doesn't make any decision about it.

And the labor people are among the most mischievous in their opposition.

They've gotten to some numbers.

States have a number who are also across the board.

That's about one of the few things we need to work out.

They say please don't put any numbers in.

So I think that's one point.

What's the number?

Well there's arguments about it.

And the point is it hasn't been settled.

There is.

The second thing is that that approach departs from the basic comparability idea

that has been put into the law, namely that you, the way you regulate federal wages is to make a survey among comparable jobs and then move them to that level.

That's the basic method that's embedded in the law that people have more or less accepted.

The President's proposal maintains the comfortability principle.

It moves at six months, but it maintains the basic principle.

And presumably, in the long run, if you're thinking five, ten years, it's important to maintain a fundamental principle that you're using.

That, they'll depart from.

It's discarded and says, well, by some other kind of standard, denunciated by who knows who, a board or possibly a council or somebody.

We throw that principle out and substitute something else, which may be more or less equitable.

Let me give you the sequence that they have laid out.

On Tuesday, this bill comes up first.

They think strategically they can pass this.

And then they believe that once this passes, they've got enough votes to beat the resolution of disapproval.

And so

The 6% would go into effect January 1.

And then it's up to the Senate, we having passed it, to do the same.

And then it's up to you to sign it.

And then it's up to the Living Council or whatever the agency will be called to set a figure.

And the federal employees will be on the same basis, percentage-wise, as whatever the private sector is.

That's their strategy.

And what she said, of course, sort of complicates what happened in the Senate.

You know, McGee just indicated he won't consider that.

I mean, just a brutal resolution by the President, grants a pay increase to the military.

But...

How is this going to be affected?

Will that affect the military too, Jerry?

I think it does.

It's based on the basic, that basic, that post-military pay, the civilian pay.

They go to the military right now, except, of course, for this special military pay.

And there's another possibility that we're going to have to cut all the employees over to our pay raise, and we haven't seen that yet, but I think it's going to

What's your evaluation of George Clinton?

Well, I think that the basic approach

Your alternative plan is the one to stick with and not to get off into this never-never land.

It presumes about phase two.

And we have to hold firm on this proposal and argue the points of equity that are in it.

And it is an equitable proposal.

The federal employee is having a back-down table from the night decrease.

You don't know.

What the subsequent thing is going to be is going to have some restrictive effect of a six-month delay.

And the maintenance of the comparability principle, I think, is a just proposition, particularly in light of the fact that we've had a 21% increase in two years among federal employees.

It seems to me that we need to make the argument whether we can get any help out

people and said, look, you've passed a bill, and you're asking for it.

That's the thing I move about with you.

You're getting Congress to pass a law that in effect says to Phase 2 machinery that it needs to be number-setting machinery.

And maybe it will, maybe it won't, but apparently that would be the sense of what Congress has to do with that.

Well, we need all the help we can get, George.

We'll probably later.

I need to see it.

Well, they can pass that and pass it.

And they get their way up there.

And they drop it.

And you won't hear about it again.

I'm sure they'll work on it.

But, yeah.

They'll pass it and pass it.

And they'll drop it after the surface of things.

See, in the house, it was 14 and 12.

We lost one Republican, Hogan, Larry Hogan, and we picked up two, was it two?

Saddle and Dave Henderson.

Now, that comes up.

I was talking to Dave Henderson, and I said, how many votes did you get for us on your side?

He thought 40 to 50.

Well, we had a conference, Mr. President, and we laid the law down to them.

I think we'll do quite well.

We haven't had a whip check.

I think we probably ought to start it tomorrow.

We will lose, I would guess, 10 of our people.

That means you've got to get 50 Democrats to really be on the safe side.

And I had been told that the Chambers of Commerce and the NAM and other organizations were going to start a real letter-writing campaign, and I've seen very little evidence of it except on commitment.

Really?

At least I hadn't had any communications, and I would say all the other

Would it help?

Oh, I think it would.

I'm sure it would mitigate a lot of pressure from the others.

I don't know if those letters from the individual chambers here referred to the 64% of the public who was indicated in answering the ORC survey that they did not favor, or rather they approved the bill in referring to the increase to 64.7% of the survey.

I don't know what the drumming operation on that has been for the last ten and a half years.

But we just heard this hell of a lot of doubt out here about the type of cases they're getting out.

What you said on that rat bill over here the day or two before had a tremendous impact, I think, on the public attitude on the Senate.

So this is a key vote coming up here, and I don't know what you had in mind, but

that's shared in places for you to come subduing, for you to put the monkey right on the counter to the back.

People are with you.

They don't want any break in the production.

I am utterly amazed that you have gotten the name up there on this thing.

I think it's sort of a skewer issue.

It's a kind of thing that's peculiar to government.

And it's just, I haven't been put to work.

Well, we get a little bit carried away by the time.

But here's the propaganda that comes out from government and from every House member.

It's real vicious.

And it says, wage freeze must be broken.

Contact your representative.

Chamber of Commerce.

That's not a bad thing to do.

That's what they want to do.

If you could just get the chamber people and say, is this what you want?

Because if they win this, boy, the tight is in our show.

Jerry, did you think about forcing a vote this week?

H.R.

Gross wants to force a vote this week, but without the kind of support that I think we've got to have, I think it would be...

What's that?

A car was knocking down in the shed.

I could be right on it, Jerry.

I'm sure.

Looks like we have a little kind of shift.

I mean, if you are, there's no increase in the cluster.

Yes, there's no increase.

First of all, you'll be out there just fine with your friends.

And during the freeze period, during the freeze period, you have to take care of it.

So you should be in better shape this time.

We're all horrible.

This is the toughest one we'll have over, I think, all year.

Because Democrats who've come from conservative areas where they have large military installations, are under this kind of pressure.

They would ordinarily vote for us, but here they've got a concentration of government employees, and they just don't want to offend them.

It's not an ideological problem, it's just a tag.

The last time you were to ask for this world report, it had a state, a state, a cabinet.

You know, the state has the highest cabinet, you know.

Well, now, boy, I'm just meeting here with the leaders, and there's really a monumental problem with regard to this patient program.

There's absolutely no payoffs coming up there.

You know, they're being deluged by the government agents.

Yeah.

What I'm getting at now is that we need mail up there, and we need it fast.

You see what I mean?

Now, I got that.

I want them to get off and get going.

And this is really shocking to me.

It's really, really interesting.

You know how some of those idiots are up there.

They weigh the mail rather than the evidence.

But it's just hardly a matter of actually checking it out, you know.

It's got to be on this issue, not just on this issue.

Don't break the price reach, you know, so forth and so on.

It's really a matter of how you fulfill it.

But you see the vote's going to be Tuesday.

So you're pushing it.

Okay.

Good.

They've done it to the committee members.

I know, I know.

It's over.

The committee's already over.

We'll help you.

We'll check.

My next one is welfare reform and...

That's that old...

Yes, sir.

Well, let's start hearing some welfare reform following disposition of your tax package.

Ah, yes, sir.

That can schedule all that.

Excuse me, your real tax package didn't want welfare reform.

How about revenue sharing?

Well, revenue sharing... We thought we had a full bill to run the ropes.

We were so close.

They had, what, two weeks of exploratory executive session meetings, and various alternatives were voted on.

But there was a feeling that something was going to be done.

And then, of course, during the recess, the priest was put out.

I think Wilbur has used that as a diversion to try and take the pressure off.

And then, of course, he announced he was going to have those health hearings.

I thought that was a deliberate sidetracking of revenue sharing.

Now, Johnny Burns talked to me, and he talked to you, and he denies that.

Mr. President, there will be a two-week hiatus and a waste of time between the time I finish.

You're a three-part task practitioner.

and the time to initiate hearings on the health program.

That two-week night, this is a two-week community proceeding after over 18.

We have Republican members of the Whiting Institute that are prepared to say, let's use those two weeks to bring on the hearings of the vote.

Barbara Powell and others are prepared to do that.

But I've also heard, if I might interrupt, that Wilbur's had nothing but sticky engagements all over the country during that two-week period.

So Wilbur's not going to be there, and it's going to be a little tough.

I think we've got to get the governors again, the mayors again, the local officials again,

to start that pressure that we were on the brink of getting a bill out of the House.

I was committed.

John, what's happened to that?

Has that fallen on his tools too?

No, sir.

The pressure's on.

As a matter of fact, the chairman won't see these people that have been hammering at his door.

They won't keep it on.

And the vice president's going to make a speech tomorrow to the leaders of the East California.

Because you can't rock it to get a bill on?

He's on it.

They can leave.

The groundwork, the fieldwork is up again.

The pressure is building.

But Mills made a speech in California on Sunday where he said there would be a repression.

Who did he?

Mr. Dillon.

So he's responding.

It's obvious that he's carrying this pressure.

But he said he would benefit only the cities.

And he's trying to use the three-month delay, ineffective date, as his excuse for putting this off.

The Vice President will nail him on it tomorrow.

My God, isn't that something?

Because you know the thing has to be passed in order to get it in place.

We're going to be very lucky if you pass it this month, they can't even let me in.

That's very brief.

Maybe we'll do nothing until they get something done.

Sure.

The week of October 11th was provided a good full week with plenty of nice toast to the members of the Winning East Committee to bring around the strength of the book.

McKinney, for the interest of the rest of the committee.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

Wouldn't you agree, John, we were darn close?

Yes, sir.

They were floating travel balloons left and right with their compromises.

Well, can I correct you, Jeff?

My best judgment on that...

Well, the bill I think that was going to come out was pretty much your proposal for local units of government, a new factory cranked in of need, plus a tax credit for states.

And that's the first thing that got John, that would get John Burns on our side.

Three and a half, one and a half.

Right.

And that was starting to get set.

We have a reason, and I think that we can act on that.

That would be acceptable, wouldn't it?

Yes, could it?

Yes, yes.

Can you, uh, can you set up so that if you have questions planted in the state legislature, it's getting well with the schedule?

If you have questions planted among the legislature, I'll speak to the state legislature.

Yes, sir, we've had a routine.

We've been catching it every place we've gone, and we'll continue to keep that on.

Now we all know that on welfare reform there are a hell of a lot of Republicans who don't want it.

That's fine.

Just forget that.

The main thing is to make the case that if you and Jerry will, that these guys and the other side, they've had their revenue sharing, of course, for almost a year.

They've had welfare reform for two years, since August of last year, and they haven't done a goddamn thing.

And I was keen to hear, because now it will become an issue.

If we're not going to get the bill, let's get the issue.

You're so great.

The line that I forgot in Detroit, Bobby was there, you were there, is where it said, before this Congress is adjourned, I said, for Christmas, they ought to pass revenue sharing and welfare reform.

You know, I don't want the Congress around here to Christmas anymore than you do.

You folks know what you're up to.

These people are going to screw this around and not give us anything.

What do you think, Jerry?

That's it.

But they'd like to agree.

Yes, if they can, they'd get away with it.

That's right.

Well, I'm sorry, sir.

It's obvious that our next committee is so much stronger than it was.

John Gertz is gone, Bob Griffin's on there.

Well, but we didn't have the SGLs to get the bill.

You know what, Al?

Do you want to talk about what looks like a journal?

Yes, I would, but let me say this.

At a certain time, we're now reaching a political year.

At a certain time, I think that we have to unload on the Congress.

And I mean by the Congress, I mean the leadership of the Congress on the other side for its utter failure to

to do anything except fiddle around.

Before we get into that cue, you want to remember you're going to get two Supreme Court nominees.

Now, if I can strongly say that, that's kind of the first thing.

We've got to have those judges.

Well, you see, this new session is coming up.

As I was thinking about Griffin coming back and playing, Griffin and Ruben are coming back to play.

They don't get it done this session.

He says, yeah, but that doesn't apply to the presidents that are running.

Well, that's another thing.

My point is, could I ask you, at this time, for the Senate screws around, deli-dalis about confirming those things with a kind of addiction.

and they're terribly explosive before they squirt down, we can raise hell.

Well, I guess, as John mentioned the other day, that if you saw 50 Cent both names up together, there are reasons, there are advantages in that.

It enables us to play one name off against another, which makes somebody who's very much for your number two say, the other goes for number one.

I guess the video's millering wrong if we get them both together.

So we're not going to vote together, which we might get within maybe two, three days.

Well, here's the reason.

There's another reason, I think, for not doing it together, is to talk for traction and for getting the courage.

I don't know if Tony will talk about this, but it's fine if he gets some credit.

I didn't expect this to happen quite as soon.

I think you want to get the benefit out of both things.

If you put a boat together, you're not going to get the benefit out of it.

It's going to be in a bag, like the tank that we should, uh, that we should send Paul down.

By God, we want to ride that for all this, because we're going to taste the heat for it.

But you agree, Jerry?

You don't want to let it come around, and then we'll send somebody, you know, like a... Well, you know, the other end of the cap in my office is on Paul.

We missed 31 boats.

I disagree.

I think we missed about 36.

Either way, we should have them, Johnny.

We're working on, you know, they're...

That's working on some of the people already.

If I lost that, it was all ready to go right down the line.

I don't think any former House members would have found a barrier at all.

We'll get to that.

I'm going to be very close to that.

I'm going to be very close.

Put these screws through it.

Well, you know, we just can't say that.

But that's where it's just gonna be.

That's where it's gonna end up.

We're making the usual band.

This time, a very thorough band, too.

Mack and Saxby involved about ten boats right there.

One there, another two there.

That's more than I'm counting against in that video.

Saxby.

Well, we've heard of that 36, but I work on Saxby.

I think you ought to be looking at that.

He's one of us.

John Rhodes talked to Saxby.

And Saxby told John Rhodes that he saw no reason why he should be opposed to him.

Good.

That's great.

But one we're worried about is Bob Tapp.

Has anybody done any checking on him?

I don't know.

I just heard this rumor and I couldn't believe it.

Last night we had a riot scene in Tash.

I would prefer it to stand with President and Bob Gregg to talk to people like Percy and Happy and Bob Tash.

Yeah.

So we can see if we've got any problems there other than being wrong.

Yeah, because they should not have the virus.

Let me tell you what's going on.

I have talked to Hatfield.

Now, first of all, an army would have a prayer with Hatfield, but he has a color problem with regard to the nomination.

I was just begging for it.

You know, if McCall goes, McCall leads the nomination, and McCall lines are, you know, mercurial.

Now, that's the reason Hatfield lately has been trying to say something.

I'm saying if he would vote, if he votes against this, I think McCall will run against him indeed.

Now, Percy, of course, will certainly do not, and he will be elected.

On the other hand, Percy's only problem is on the, on the, on the money side, which can, right?

And I think Percy could, could make himself much heavier loaded against both things, or in terms of, he'd make himself good by saying, well, I'm not just, every, against everybody the president sends down.

Do you buy this or not?

I have a feeling that at first he's given advance notice of what you're doing.

Yeah.

By John Mitchell, perhaps.

Yeah.

Oh, that's something else that might be close to it.

He's trying to patch this to the other side.

He's trying.

Yeah.

I thought the trail of heart this morning.

Yeah.

Phil, I'm sure he's going to vote against.

Sure.

Well, I don't think Phil's going to get on the meeting platform.

We have no accurate report yet.

I'd rather buy a week if I could hear his comment.

Let me say, Hughes, I can't tell any of you, and I don't mind you getting the impression that that is close.

I don't get it.

He is being considered.

But let me say that one of those two has to be assigned.

Because now we don't have any Southerners on the court.

We've got one just out of, you know, after Kingsburg and Garstwood, we've got to find one.

And the reason the pop was frankly high in consideration is that it's much more difficult for them to vote against a Southerner that's been in a house

That's right, and I have.

A southerner is to say to a southerner servant, he, that by God, it's time we had a southerner so the rest of the country had a chance.

That's a great topic.

You can have a big laugh for a little bit of time.

Well, let me say that you will and Bob will put the heat to them.

And we'll get you good with good functions.

We'll get you good with good functions.

Well, if it comes up within two or three days, that's a yellow package deal.

It's quite a condition.

I told Mitchell I want old names.

Before we send one out, I have both things, but I do think that we want to get a double bounce out of that.

In other words, have one get it, and two days later, or three days later, get in with the other.

That's where I'm going to go.

Does anybody disagree with that?

No, that's good.

It'll just pass as it does, I hope.

Well, the reason I'm saving time, Jerry, is

You need to start checking things.

Good God, they go down there and go to the hometown of the East Falls and see what they did.

I hate to be nominated to be a judge.

I was one of the checkers, all those things.

Would you listen?

I'll do that for your life.

I've been warned.

I'll let the eye check you some.

It was a pop issue when I wrote you about it.

Women, you know, there is a strict construction that says, oh, America is qualified with a skirt on.

That'll be great.

Do you think it will?

I don't know for sure.

No, do you think it will help people?

Yeah, I think it will.

That's true.

I think it will.

Do you think so?

Do you think it will?

I don't know.

We're looking, we're looking.

Oh yes, you saw this, I'm sure about 12 women were around.

My God, what a bag.

I mean, what a bag of bags.

Anyway, the...

And then they can't go against the first woman, and either way they can go against the first Negro.

So they'll take the woman, provided she can read and write.

The main problem doesn't work.

You know, that life there is very tough.

They live together, they talk together, they have those conferences and the rest of it.

And he was introduced, he just saw us.

Would it be safe to have us over there?

Yeah.

He said, let's have some.

He said, what do you want to eat?

He said, no.

He said, no, just some.

I said, I have some.

I haven't talked to you since.

Sorry, guys.

He wasn't young enough.

He left.

We can't go that young.

They want a young law school.

He won't take them unless they're under 25.

That's right.

He said, I'm always getting hit.

Yeah.

Well, you get two interpretations.

One, the Rules Committee has said they will not consider any new legislation unless it's an emergency after October 1.

That's right.

And then after...

that would create problems unless you consider it an emergency.

On the other hand, Carl Albert asked me last Thursday, how did I feel about Thanksgiving week?

taking not only Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, but Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, to make it a full week.

And then come back.

So you've got the Rules Committee having one criteria.

No bill would like to consider that having come out of committee and been reported, there's a report written after October 1, and Carl Albert talking about taking a vacation for a week at Thanksgiving.

Wow.

I think the speaker will prevail, but the rules committee are thinking in top.

Carl practiced early experience, and I forgot to carry out a version of that, because I didn't realize what he was doing.

He just, you know, I didn't ask him again, but he did say once, and this is, I don't think we have a general person, so we just have to, we've got too much to do, so he told me.

So he must be thinking right there.

Well, when he asked me that, I said, I'll go along with her.

But let's pick a date in December when it's irrevocably old, bright, firm.

And we looked at the calendar, and it's Friday, December 11th.

He's tentatively agreed on that with me.

You know, last year I said he liked January 11th, 15th, 30th.

But he also said that's 10th.

I'm not sure he's able to do it.

I don't think I'll take a week for Thanksgiving if you can avoid it.

Alright.

Well, I'm glad you stayed here, but like I said, I didn't think you would ever think of me, James.

It, uh, of course, we could take three days and realize this.

Let us, let us say this.

Let's not have a Republican conclusion.

We have to arrest an attorney before we get these things through.

I agree with that.

I will say, oh, I'd rather be in the Senate.

Like all of you, you're volunteers.

I think you could say we've talked about the thing.

And I feel very strong that we've got to pass a relevant bill, a welfare reform, before this Congress is adjourned.

Now, we've got a few other items that we'd like to get to.

Bargain of those things that we will throw on there, just to savor it up.

But tax package is a tax package.

Tax package is one.

Perfectly fair is two.

Welfare reform is three.

That's fair enough.

I think we can navigate through that.

We have a confirmation from two judges before the Congress, or whatever, that the Congress should be next week.

That's fair enough too.

You haven't seen what Kenny Kennedy said about the curtain of war in his day.

It's the most demagogic

Well, he said the blood of the prisoners of war are on the administration.

That's a fact.

I don't know how the newspapers are going to play it.

I saw it in the AP.

He apparently said it was in practice that he was actually in practice today.

Have you heard of this new book by E.J.

Pantler that's about to come out from the office?

No, it's not coming out.

Pretty soon it'll be out.

Have you seen it yesterday?

No, I haven't.

What's it like?

The word count?

Yeah.

It counted every word.

It didn't say it at all.

It's not in the history.

No, it's not in the history.

We have it everywhere in critical view of any one person, whether they have experience or not, or have a show coming out of that.

So that's 943 words on ABC critical view, and of course, that's like everything else.

Thank you very much.

This is a very local meeting.

But this is the kind of meeting where we can all sit around.

When we have the bigger meeting, it's a little too formalized.

But sometimes we just want to say, hey, just kick things around.

That's not right.

I think that's one of those things that we've got to go out and do things.

So you don't have to feel like you've got to go out and talk to the press and all that.

You're right.

And it's all here to me.

You want to talk to Mr.

Yes, you can make it.

You can make it.

The only difficulty with this meeting today is that we must avoid the future because of that Van Gogh evening after the town.

All we can do is have a meeting so that they can head there and we can see the rest of it.

They've got it from 4 o'clock.

They're going to get their hands on the evening TV.

We're out of time.

Well, go ahead.

It's fine.

That's what they wanted to do, the local club's decision.

All right.

I said, look,

Because the mover all the way with Hainsburg and Carson, I think Hainsburg and Carson, the point is that in this case, in this case, your problem is not the Republicans.

Your problem is getting that Senate.

You get it.

Don't worry about it.

Well, I've already, I don't understand.

I don't know who else is in the picture.

I've already told them that I was in support of Pop.

Well, if anything comes up, it doesn't have to be Pop.

Don't worry about it.

We understand.

I don't know.