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Conversation: 580-013

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Start Date: 29-Sep-1971 11:55 AM

End Date: 29-Sep-1971 1:08 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Kissinger, Henry A.[Unknown person(s)]

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:16:15

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:27:04

580a.mp3

580b.mp3

580b_i.mp3

580c.mp3

NARA Description:

On September 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:55 am and 1:08 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 580-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 580-13

Date: September 29, 1971
Time: Unknown between 11:55 am and 1:08 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.
                                             15

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)




     The President's schedule
          -The President's conversation with John B. Connally
                -Preparation by the President
          -Trip to Florida
                -George P. Shultz
                -Herbert Stein
                -Connally
          -Background information for the President's economic meeting
          -John W. Rollins
                -Reception
          -Conversation between Haldeman and Connally
                -Connally's current schedule
          -Forthcoming Phase II announcement
                -Timing
                      -Stock market closing
                -National television
                -Press conference
                      -Possible effect
                      -Connally
                           -Answering questions

Kissinger entered at 11:59 am.

     US economic policies
          -Complications
          -The President's conversation with Haldeman
          -National television appearance
                -Leadership principle
          -The President's role
          -Peter G. Peterson
                -Speech by the President
                     -International Monetary Fund [IMF]
                           -National television
                     -IMF members
          -Reception by the President for IMF members
                -The President's appearance and type of remarks

     The President's previous meeting with Pierre-Paul Schweitzer
          -Schweitzer's attitude toward the US
          -Arthur F. Burns, Connally
                                         16

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


     -The President's conversation with Schweitzer on international economy
          -Public compared to private statements
          -US isolationism
                -Korean War
                -Foreign aid programs
          -Foreign political situations
                -Britain's situation
                      -European community
                -Germany
                -France
                -Japan
                -Stance toward US
                      -Reasons
          -US position
                -New method of action in negotiations
                      -Type of bargaining
          -Anglo-Saxon focus
                -Schweitzer's s of stance
                -The President previous meeting with Andrei A. Gromyko
          -Reactions by Burns

US foreign relations
     -State Department stance
           -Type of attitude in negotiations
           -Comparison to the President's attitude
                 -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                 -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                 -US allies

The President's previous meeting with Schweitzer
     -Connally's views
          -Schweitzer
                 -Meeting

Cabinet officials
     -Pressures of public opinion
           -William P. Rogers
           -Identity of individual
           -John Foster Dulles
                  -Eisenhower administration
                                        17

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


The President's administration
     -Cabinet members
          -Requirements
          -Rogers C. B. Morton
                 -Central Arizona project
                 -Indians
                 -Oil industry people
     -Perceptions of White House versus departmental action
     -Burns
          -Conversation with Kissinger prior to ceremony for Manlio Brosio
          -Price of gold
                 -Options
                       -Europe
                       -Japan

The President's discussion with Schweitzer
     -New York bankers
          -Representation of the US

David Rockefeller
     -Desire for appointment with the President
          -Letter to the President
          -Economic discussion with the President
                 -Type of subject

General Motors
    -Investment tax issues
    -Advance notice allegation by Congressman
         -Stocks

Rockefeller
    -Desire for appointment with the President
    -Letter to the President
    -Conversation with Connally
          -Rockefeller's reaction

The President's administration

International economy
      -New system versus old system
           -Kissinger's conversation with David Rockefeller
                                         18

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                          Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


     -The President's conversation with Schweitzer
     -Connally
     -Burns's Expectations
          -US position in the world
     -Schweitzer
     -Robert S. McNamara
     -Schweitzer
          -Burns
                -Connally's conversation with Haldeman
                -Reaction to Schweitzer
     -The Earl of Cromer
     -The President's discussion with Schweitzer
          -US politics
                -US interests
                -New system of economics
                      -Burden-sharing
                      -Non-tariff barriers
          -Schweitzer's position
                -Burns's reaction

US foreign policy
     -US Ambassadors' actions
     -State Department
           -Secretary of State
                 -Dulles
           -Attitude toward foreigners
     -The President's meeting with Schweitzer
           -Isolationism in the US
     -Kissinger's appearance before group in New York
           -US position in the World
                 -Egocentrism
                       -Altruism
                       -Effect
     -US interests compared to altruism

The President's schedule
     -Preparation for Phase II meeting
     -The President's trip to Florida
          -Shultz
          -Stein
          -Shultz
                                        19

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


     -John Connally
          -Pressure
     -Conversation between Haldeman and Connally
     -Nationally televised speech
          -Alternatives

Vietnam
     -Prisoners of war [POW] situation
           -Impact of September 28, 1971 National League of Families speech by the
                 President
                 -Generals and admirals at event
                 -John D. Ryan
                 -William C. Westmoreland
                 -Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.
           -John A. Scali
           -Edward M. Kennedy
                 -Reception of statement by families
                 -Comment about POWs rotting in camps
                 -Negotiations
           -Reasons for POW situation
                 -Effects of war
                       -Validity
     -Possible outcome of war
           -Military position
           -Validity of war
           -Honorable finish
     -The President's appearance at convention
           -Reactions
                 -Scali
                 -Convention resolution
     -POW wives
           -Kennedy and Clark M. Clifford
                 -Exploitation of war

Press appearances
      -Ronald L. Ziegler
      -Value of surprise appearances by the President
      -Ziegler
           -TV coverage of the President
                 -Knowledge by reporters of planned appearance by the President
                 -Ziegler's responsibility
                                         20

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


                -Scali
                -Warning of the President's appearance
                      -Possible effect
                -Surprise appearance by the President
                      -James D. Hughes
          -Appearances by the President
                -Time length
     -The President's 1958 trips to Lima and Caracas
          -Incidents
                -San Marcos
                -Type of audience
                -Catholic University
          -Secret Service
                -Protocol
                      -Escorts
                -Rock throwing
     -The President's trip to Ohio State University
          -Columbus
                -Demonstrators on campus
                -The President's actions
                      -Departure
                      -Alleviation of serious confrontation between the President and
                             demonstrators
                             -Secret Service
     -Surprise appearances by the President
          -Effect on press coverage
     -Press coverage
          -Pictures
          -Other methods

Kennedy
    -POW situation
          -Statement
                -Press coverage
    -Career
    -Comparison to Robert F. Kennedy
          -Emotional nature of statements
    -India trip
          -Press coverage
                -Number of press people
          -Impact
                                           21

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                          Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


          -Type of coverage
          -Public reaction
     -POW situation
          -Subject knowledge by Edward Kennedy
                -Missing in action [MIA] question
          -Handling of POW wives
     -Advice to the President

US issues
     -Mansfield Amendment
     -Prisoners of North Vietnam
     -POWs and MIAs

Edward Kennedy
    -Return from India trip
          -Conversation with Kissinger
                -Programs for relief
                      -Amount of money
    -Staff work
          -Background preparation
                -Public impact
    -Comparison to Robert Kennedy
          -California primary, 1968
    -Attica state prison riots
          -Possible issue by Edward Kennedy
                -Blacks

Busing issue
     -Judge Stephen J. Roth
           -Detroit decision
           -De facto compared to de jure
     -The President's possible action
           -Constitutional amendment
                -Supreme Court

Supreme Court
     -John N. Mitchell
     -Possible appointees
     -Mitchell
          -Richard H. Poff
                -Opposition in Senate
                                       22

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                        Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


                      -John D. Ehrlichman's views
                -American Bar Association [ABA]
                -Senate
                      -Committed votes
    -Senator Hugh Scott's views
         -Possibility of passage of Poff appointment
         -Strength in Senate
    -Female appointee
         -Age
         -California
                -Superior Court judge
         -Dean of Southern California Law School
         -Political position
         -List of potential women appointees
                -Criteria
    -Southerners' desires
    -Robert C. Byrd
         -Civil rights
         -Strong law and order
    -Mitchell's suggestion
         -Female appointee
                -Justice Department
                -Federal Court judge
    -Women appointees
         -Warren E. Burger's views
         -Political impact
                -Votes
                -Women, blacks
                      -Number

The President's administration
     -Women appointees
          -Cabinet
          -Compared to men appointees
          -Barbara Franklin
          -Jayne B. Spain
          -Maritime Commission chairman
                                             23

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Privacy]
[Duration: 2s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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         -Connally
         -Mitchell
         -Elliot L. Richardson
               -Type of job
                     -Left wingers
         -Type of Cabinet members
               -Effort
         -Maurice H. Stans
         -George W. Romney
         -John A. Volpe
         -Stans
               -Speech
               -Loyalty
         -Romney
         -Volpe
         -Stans
         -Volpe
               -Support for the President and administration
         -Richardson
               -Elitists in the country

    The President's appearances
         -Attendance at Justice Hugo L. Black's funeral
              -TV coverage
              -Sermon
         -Mitchell
         -Richard A. Moore
              -Schedule recommendation
         -Funeral for Black
                                         24

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


          -Sermon
                -Type
          -Justice Black
                -Opposition to administration
          -Unitarian minister
                -Eulogy
                      -Strict constructionism
                            -The President's attendance at funeral
                            -Mitchell
          -Moore
                -Eulogy
                      -Schedule suggestions
          -Analogies
                -Leonard Garment's suggestion on black church
                -Anti-Vietnam War protestors, professors
                      -General Lewis B. Hershey
          -Personal note to Mrs. Black
          -White House flags at half staff
                -Ziegler, Charles W. Colson
          -The President’s attendance
                -Possible effect
          -Ceremony
                -Casket
                      -Funeral customs
                -Casket
     -The President's funeral
          -Notes with instructions
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
          -Flags half-staff
          -Eulogy
                -Dead person
                -Flag at half-staff

The President's schedule
     -Mitchell
     -Connally
          -Meeting with the President
     -The President's trip to Florida
          -Papers for preparation
                 -Assistance
     -Shultz
                                             25

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


                -Family
                     -Trip

     Douglas B. Cornell reception
         -Ziegler
               -Invitations
                     -United Press International [UPI], Associated Press [AP]
                     -Number of people
                     -Former Press Secretaries
                           -Pierre Salinger, George E, Reedy, Jr., William Moyers, James C.
                                  Haggerty
                     -Number
         -Location
               -State Dining Room
         -Receiving line
               -Number
         -Invitees
               -Cornell
         -Refreshments
         -Ziegler
               -TV coverage compared to writing press
                     -Lights for TV coverage
               -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
                     -Photographs
         -Receiving line

Haldeman left at 12:44 pm.

     Presentation of medal to Brosio
          -World leaders
                -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
                -Walter J. Stoessel, Jr.
                -Robert F. Ellsworth

The President talked with H. R. Haldeman at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 1:08 pm.

[Conversation No. 580-13A]

     NATO Ambassador
        -Appointee
            -Stoessel
                                            26

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


          -Requirements
               -California person

[End of telephone conversation]

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:44 pm.


     Instruction

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 1:08 pm

     The President's forthcoming meetings with Gromyko
          -Memorandum
          -Photographs
          -Location
          -The President's possible conversation with Gromyko
                -US-Soviet relations
                -European issues
          -European issues
                -US position on European security
                      -Summit meeting
                      -Berlin agreement
                      -German treaties
                -Agenda
                      -German treaties ratification
          -Middle East
                -Kissinger's memorandum
          -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                -US-USSR private discussions
                      -Details of proposals
                            -Anti-ballistic missiles [ABM] sites
                                  -US and Moscow systems
                                        -Coverage
                      -Freeze
                            -ABM sites
                            -Offensive missiles
                      -Multiple Independently Targeted Reentry Vehicles [MIRVs] capability
                            -Charles H. Percy
                            -Edward W. Brooke
                                       27

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


US Presidency
    -Edward Kennedy
    -Hubert H. Humphrey
    -Edmund S. Muskie
          -Effect of occupant
               -Gromyko
               -Conservatives
               -ABMs
               -MIRVS
               -B-1
               -Undersea Long-range Missile System [ULMS]
    -Conservatives

The President's forthcoming discussions with Gromyko
     -Vietnam War issue
     -Middle East issue
          -Israelis
          -Interim settlements
                 -US position
     -Trade issue
          -Stans, Peterson
                 -Possible trip to USSR
          -Kissinger's conversation with Dobrynin
                 -US approval of money to Kama River project
                       -Scott
                       -Formal announcement
                       -Scali
          -Stans, Peterson
                 -Possible trip to the USSR
                       -Negotiations
          -US approval of money for the Kama River project
     -Vietnam
     -Middle East issue
          -US position
          -Kissinger's discussion within private meeting
     -South Asia
          -Dangers of armed conflict
                 -East Bengel
     -Europe
     -Middle East
     -Trade
                                       28

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


     -Salt
     -South Asia
     -Salt
           -Offensive compared to defensive
                -US proposal
     -Move to Map Room at conclusion of meeting
           -Significance
     -Vietnam
           -Nikolai V. Podgorny's forthcoming trip to Hanoi
           -US position in negotiating with North Vietnam
     -Leonid I. Brezhnev's message
     -Handling of private meeting
           -Rogers
           -Dobrynin
           -Gromyko
                -Cabinet Room
                -Message
     -Middle East
           -Progress
                -US-USSR relations
                -Berlin
           -Possible meeting between Dobrynin and Kissinger
     -Channels of communications
     -Kissinger's forthcoming discussion with Gromyko
           -Vietnam issue
     -Summit meeting
           -Rogers's role in preparation
           -Gromyko's preparation for meeting with Rogers

US-USSR relations
    -Correspondence between the President and Brezhnev
         -Rogers's knowledge
    -Rogers
    -Possible leaks
    -Rogers
         -Role in preparing for meeting
                -USSR summit
                    -Announcement
                    -Dobrynin
                          -PRC summit
                                         29

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)


US foreign economic policy
     -Burns
          -Possible conversation with Kissinger
               -Schweitzer
               -Businessmen
               -Economist
          -Schweitzer
          -Connally
               -Possible conversation with Kissinger

The PRC trip
     -Rogers
          -Possible conversation with Haldeman
                -Decision
     -Preparation
          -State Department bureaucracy
                -Rogers's orders
                      -Agenda for summit meetings
                      -Preparation of annual foreign policy report
     -Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to PRC
          -Announcement
                -Timing
     -Rogers
          -State Department
                -Agenda
                      -Handling

Rogers
    -Haldeman's possible call
    -Forthcoming discussion with the President
         -Soviet summit
         -PRC summit

George H.W. Bush
     -Meeting with Kissinger, September 30, 1971
          -Time
     -Postponement of UN vote
          -Rogers
     -Meeting with the President
          -Meeting with Kissinger
               -State Department, Rogers
                                             30

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 580-13 (cont.)



Kissinger left at 1:08 pm.