Conversation 584-003

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Yeah.

Well, this is not a thing to discuss all these years.

They're just given the points that you made.

You made raises to give him a question out of this thing.

I was talking to the president a little bit earlier, and it's one you've put out for a few years.

Hold on.

I wouldn't do it.

I would go as fast as I can.

He's doing something like that.

He's laid low on any requests, you know, and he's in for another $130.

I called Bill and told him I told him to drop me to sleep.

And he called me to my side and slammed my bill and talked to me about it.

And he said, I can't, I just can't seem to comprehend Edward's views on it.

What does he think Bill should get out of this?

He'll hit you a little, I'll give you the jobs and screw with the errors.

I just don't know, I'm relying on myself.

He really is, not just the Mideast, it's the whole, the whole rocket structure is China business.

He had gone in the staff meeting this morning and Ziglar shot him down, which was being good.

Ron stepped in and he said, well,

It may be a problem, but in all fairness to the Knickers, and they're just ripping Rodgers, you know, and staffing, which he shouldn't do.

Goddamn.

And Rodgers said, well, in all fairness, the story that you're referring to ran only in the New York Times.

Oh, yeah.

It was in Ted Schultz's byline.

He said, I've read the transcript.

And Rodgers didn't say what the time was.

They sent it back.

Oh, so good.

And they did it to, you know, the story was bad.

It didn't.

Amen.

But it wasn't what you read.

It wasn't what Roger said.

It's what they wrote that was bad.

I heard you.

If anything, it's going to cut us out.

It's going to cut it up.

And Ron said afterwards, maybe I shouldn't have said anything.

No, no, you don't have to.

But it just wasn't fair.

Well, I know.

And also, Roger's trying to say some things.

And...

You know, Bob, he really is trying to say some things that are, uh, to the administration.

Yep.

He's, uh, I want him to speak more.

In certain places, he does awfully well now.

Doesn't he?

Yep.

Also, uh, I've talked to Richard for a long time on that.

He's got to make an effort to look as if we are

I don't know.

get away for four days, as we did.

We didn't know that we were away for four days.

Well, we weren't totally away, because we kept kind of in touch.

And keep up with, closely in touch.

But it's still, you get along.

I was sitting in the way I did with all the people coming in.

The way I did, of course, was a very good way.

I mean, which way I do it, I sit there, I get up in the morning, and I don't get up early.

I get up, and I sit there, and I just talk to the phone for a couple hours.

You know, I didn't do as much in that.

every day, and I talk with the men I show up and I talk with the people I want to talk with.

You do it at your initiative.

That's right.

And you do it on a thoughtful basis.

You're not interrupted.

You're not under pressure to do something else.

I'm being completely detached from it.

Yeah.

I get it.

It's great.

And also, I think when we come back, we all feel a little better.

But you think it gives everybody a lift?

Yeah, I think it does.

I think it's good for the people here, right?

They can kind of step over that on their heads and, you know, pop in on things rather than getting ready for the next thing that you're doing.

But I think certainly it's good in terms of keeping me in shape for the big battles to do this.

The way we're working now, we've got a pretty good deal.

Can't wait.

in Florida every three weeks.

And we can do it.

That four-day shot in Florida is pretty good.

And usually, we won't stay that long.

But, well, three days is fine.

I mean, as a matter of fact, I'm in fours.

I'm not making any more difference.

But if you see this next time, I really wonder if we should go on down there to Tony Graham's place and view the fact that we would have such a short time.

It's worth it.

Well, we have a couple of things.

What did we give you Saturday and Sunday?

Plus a whole little time for a swim and all Friday after you get there.

What do you think?

I think in the four days, maybe it's better to go.

I don't know.

I wonder if we could go the next week.

I don't know.

I think they are.

I just thought, and that's a congressional recess that weekend, and it occurred to me that... Why weren't we going to do that?

There was a... Well, it was a visit.

No, no, there was another... Was there?

Well, you were talking about press conference on the 27th, but that doesn't make any difference.

Well, but that would be a Wednesday.

You could come back at 2 p.m. and get it done anyway.

There's no problem there.

And I'd also like to do the restaurant on the 21st.

I might decide to do that that week.

I might do that every week.

The more I think about it, the more I think about the things perhaps worth it.

Now, would you see any way to put the National Federation back there today?

This is a long time, but that would be a natural time to take four days off.

Oh, yeah, it's on holidays.

But even if you don't put it back on, you could do it for three days.

Three damn good days.

Yeah, or you do the women in the morning.

You do them and leave at noon on Friday.

I give you the day.

Or leave at, you know, 11 on Friday morning or something like that and be there for the, for the afternoon track.

You really have to, I don't think you need to change the way you do it in the morning, which we do.

I think I have something on.

What?

No, it is planning on it.

How the hell are we going to do it this time?

Well, you don't have to do it or you could do it on the way down on Friday.

You stop down and give them a flight.

Sure.

And that's the news.

And that's the weekend before their grand opening week.

That's the date their grand opening starts on Saturday.

And I go in the day before.

See, you go in the day before, which would be great for them.

Set them up.

Go ahead.

Give it a go.

We have to be enjoyable, so we give them a flight.

And every time I go around, you see all the rides.

The President's Day, we bring them a flight.

It's over.

Check that out.

And that's on Charlotte.

My deal would be to come back and say I can't do that with you.

I don't know whether that's a good idea or not.

We don't always have to have four days.

I don't mean that, but I think you're right.

Three and a half days is a hell of a lot better, four days, than two.

Well, what I've got to say, the other thing that I've learned, you see, is this Wednesday clear day is a hell of a night.

It really is.

It's sort of like a Florida day.

It means it.

That day I can stay up Tuesday night and Wednesday morning I can get up on the goddamn police, you see.

And then I'll go over and...

make calls or so forth.

We just have to be pretty tough about it.

Call people in that you want to deal with.

See, that's the problem that you run into so easily here is you lose all your discretion.

Most people, even a very busy businessman, has only a very small part of his schedule set by other people.

Is that right?

And he has certain meetings, you know, board meetings and things like that that are locked in.

But most people spend most of their day doing

I think it's just their own initiative, and you don't.

Or haven't.

I can't.

That's the... Good to go, sir.

We're planning a ceremony, but we've got to see Schultz, we've got to see Irwin, we've got to see Kissinger, we've got to see... Well, plus the fact that people have come to see you, come from a long ways away, and it's a major thing for them.

It's different than most of the people that other businessmen see are available each time.

Is that right?

We've got... And I'm good on cell phone with Comfey.

I had a good talk with him yesterday.

I told Comfey that I was starting to do a marvelous job about the last week and all that.

You see, we can list candidates in some horrible games, too.

But he's got to get all those Rogers cases.

He can't be the secretary of state with Rogers.

I mean, maybe he can.

But part of it is, he has to talk to us about Rogers on the Middle East.

We may have to do the Middle East for the Russians.

That we can't breathe with their Rogers.

But that's a different matter.

It's a different matter.

That's what we should say to them.

I think it's a good idea.

I'm trying to remember why there's a reason not to, and I can't think of what it is.

It's divided on the way down if you're really brave.

The really best thing is if you do the Republican women on Thursday, and then first thing Friday morning, go down and leave them there.

So you do Disney.

Well, or Thursday afternoon, or something like that.

Or do the women first thing Friday morning, and then leave right from there.

Do Disney at, say, 11 or 12.

Well, the women will be in, indeed, not before 10.

Oh, that's what you have to do.

Then at 10, 11, you just need about 1.

Yeah, that's still a pretty good deal.

Stay 1 to 2, and get down to 3.

Work off, get down to about 3, 3, 3, or 4.

That's what you have to leave.

You have to, you have to.

But it is, but that's part of it.

I didn't think it was going to be an interesting thing to do.

It was an interesting way to do it.

You held a good time.

We still don't have to do that.

It will mean a lot to him if he can.

I can't say for sure.

Well, let's go ahead and do that.

No, I think it is coming back.

We haven't messed with it.

I heard there's more, sir.

No, that's good.

Sir, good day.

Thank you.

I don't care what you're doing.

They're playing a ball of orange, isn't that one?

No.

They're in one.

I don't think that's one, sir.

See you on the floor, if I don't see you.

We've researched this, we know it.

Dr. Cooper.

Oh, waiter.

Do you want to sign the 10 o'clock game with Johnny Schultz?

Schultz thinks he should be in Crackman.

Sure, I agree with that.

Well, I love Crackman.

Well, what do you think?

Do you think Crackman should be in the 10 o'clock game?

Well, sure.

Sure, I agree with that.

So it's a good opening.

Sure.

Well, getting back.

Bob, I think you're, we're really getting this in here.

You know, it's all under reaction, but it's going to be a bunch of errors.

I mean, it's an interesting thing to picture, but it's all secure and happy, or you can get a hold of it without the ex-schedulist.

Now, a part of it is, in the beginning, kind of, well, that's it.

The situation changes.

You couldn't have come in and been so ruthless.

And the fact that the other government is much better than it is makes it possible to do the other thing.

That's it.

The thing we really overdid was congressional.

We've got people who need to be more active.

Right now, I don't know.

I think we're doing better over Congress.

We're not sucking around quite as much.

Do you agree with that?

We're certainly doing well from now.

And, of course, I think part of that is you've got a better team working in Congress now.

Actually, we love rice, and there's no question that we've got a lot better.

And Clark is, he's got a good approach to it.

He uses you.

He knows you, but he analyzes it.

He doesn't do a knee jerk getting the president in.

He thinks about it, and then he decides, yes, this is the time, this is the place where we ought to use the president.

And then he looks at it afterwards and he says, no, we were wrong.

We shouldn't have used it.

You know, like some of those Senate things where he used to do it fairly well in the SSD and didn't do a thing with it.

Now, it's a better way of doing it now.

We can cut down, keep cutting down more.

We still get a lot more sun.

We shouldn't have to do it.

Well, let me come to you.

I think those ones that Doug, the black house things, is out of your way now.

I think you ought to use that place every day.

Not every day.

Although you could, but there's a reason why you can't.

Three or four nights a week.

That's too long.

No, you can do it.

It's, you know, there's a money problem.

You've got to get something to pay for it.

Oh, we've got it.

That's what I'm saying.

If you could mention my name to Colson or somebody, I'd mention this and nobody's ever got a hold of it.

I don't send a little note, one-sentence notes, to cabin officers or other people when they make a good speech, depending on the administration.

You know what I mean?

Just, uh, that's a fine job you do.

I appreciate it.

You've got a check back, which, you know what I mean.

And our, I mean, our totals and ideas don't come in here.

Well, but do they, do they all come in to you?

Or are they supposed to?

They must have, and the pros are here to help me sign them.

See?

But I don't look in on top of that.

I just want to be sure that various people do the other things.

And I noticed you having a little, a little run down on some of this.

Is that about French?

Oh, he said we ought to quit buying French goods.

It's a call on the American people to boycott all French goods until France stopped moving.

He's American.

Dope.

And it's a kind of thing that sounds like a keen idea, but it's... Why didn't he?

He did it without any consultation.

Is it possible, though, or is it just...

just to say, well, we understand the strong feeling, but we don't consider that true.

I think that's basically what they said in the White House.

I just don't, I don't want the poor redhead to be, you know, he's probably out there dying.

of what I heard about the two killing of Bob Tyson's situation in Atlanta.

Did you get a letter from him?

Sir?

Yeah, do you want to see the letter?

Oh, I don't want to see it.

I just want to be sure.

Yeah, their head slipped.

Their head slipped, as I understand it.

What happened is they got arrested.

He wrote, and there had been a letter drafted back that wasn't satisfactory, and it was being redone to go back to him.

It took too long.

That happens.

We still have a problem on that.

Well, it's substance.

It's a thing where, like, that one had cut across several grounds.

It cut across the whole television policy thing.

They were reworking that at the time.

They got into some international stuff, and I think that had to do with your Henry's deal.

We bog down paperwork sometimes and stuff like that.

It is bad.

And what they should do, which is this one, there have been... You don't have to...

If you write back and say, we've received your letter and thank you very much, we'll be getting back to you on the points you raised in due course.

At least you've got to get some acknowledgement.

Immediately give an acknowledgement and say, I've asked your questions on that one.

It seemed very interesting and I've asked Henry just to hear it.

Take a look at it to try to write you directly about it.

And I deeply appreciate your thoughtfulness in trying to run us all through your recommendations and all that, including the dinners.

Yeah.

One thing about these notes of cavern officers, they don't mean a hell of a lot to them.

I can't write them to you.

The other thing is that I called a woman last night, but she said it was really horrible.

I was working with amputees.

i was wondering about if we had to get more get to work on trying to get paid for a certificate

that comes across, he doesn't have a freedom, you know, like the presidential certificates.

What do we call things when we send them?

Demands.

We're still doing that.

Yeah, let me show you those.

There's a certificate of appreciation.

There's several different things.

There's a presidential certificate of appreciation.

There's a presidential commendation.

Right there.

All right.

How about calling it for, how about one like this?

Well, it's going to be a commendation.

I was thinking Certificate of Service.

Now, this woman had, you know, done volunteer work in several hospitals.

And the President of the United States had a certificate or citation for Meritorious Service or something like that.

Yes, I changed it for Outstanding Certification for Volunteer Service.

Well, you've got to get it, too.

You've got a combination in the bag, too.

You've got to get a combination, a combination.

I think we're going well.

We're doing that one thing.

That is a hell of a thing.

Yeah, isn't that kind of significant?

Oh, sure.

In local press stuff and that kind of thing.

And that's one that, after a while, we can do a feature magazine story on, or a live service story that sort of talks about a wrap-up of it.

Christmas, I feel that that is not probably the best thing to do, to go there.

My feeling is that

We're in the middle of a budget, the State of the Union, everything else, you know what I mean?

It is a terribly busy time.

It's a time, actually, when I can't really get away too much, you know what I mean?

I really think the Christmas thing, we're probably better off to take a little time for the other.

The weather is not certain, but it's a hell of a lot more certain in California.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

We've never been to California.

It could be lovely.

But in Florida, almost every day, you've got the chance for plenty of swell ice in Florida.

Or you can't.

We don't point out.

On Christmas, I talked to Pat, too, about these receptions.

I mean, you said we ought to look a different way.

She said, well, we've got to find a way to put another child without having to send her to a physician.

They get her to the table, they expect her to see it, so we call them over, and I'll see if she's right.

She also was sensitive about something she said on Friday.

I don't know what this is, but it must be just something.

It seems to be some story where somebody in our press office over here put out a story about her and how we're trying to get my Christmas plan to work for one of them.

She wants to be sure that all the Christmas things, they announce them over there.

I think she's right about that.

I would like to be sure.

What she's talking about was an item in the jewelry book where they were talking about, oh, he had something on the long range.

Why would she send it?

I said, here it is.

It's in love.

And she probably saw it in love.

There's an excerpt to the Drude book that's not here.

Yeah.

But the last book here is pretty good.

It's not as good as it should be.

Well, I haven't seen the book.

All I've seen is the book thing.

You don't want it to be good.

It may be better because it's not that scary.

It's all theory.

They can help us a bit more by, you know, being even.

He's not writing on me.

It's...

And the look thing comes off half and half, I would say.

He has a long segment on the interview with you that they carry a look that naturally they would carry that part.

And that comes off very well.

He's picked up some anonymous type stuff where he's got critical type things, you know, former Eisenhower administration people don't know what they're doing, that kind of stuff.

That's all right.

But in that, there is some reference to the thing of the...

You know, the long-range plan of that.

The suggestion that I have, that she has, that I think is good.

First, this year, I don't think we should go over and chip in with anybody.

I think the SPAD, the Congress, and the press, those are the two groups, and those are the ones we've always got to be on.

I just think, and that's everybody, let's, and she said it, and I believe she said it, maybe the best way to handle it is to pick days and just say it, and not put out invitations, but simply put out a notice or something that, like over here, it'll be,

God damn it, I don't know how you can do it without invitation.

You have no control about who comes through.

But what I meant is you've got to put it in a way that they know for certain that we are not going to be there.

And I don't know how they're going to do it.

Now, don't let society hear it.

That's what she doesn't mind.

Yeah.

Do you have any thought on the moment?

Well, it's not important.

It's not something a good president and Mrs. Nixon have...

have arranged for the White House to be open for members of Congress and their families on the evening of.

Well, how do we do it then?

I don't know.

Maybe we have the invitation to go for it.

from Clark McGregor, say, or from Ron Ziegler to the press.

Ron Ziegler could say, bring this card, it's your date.

Ron Ziegler could say, all right, you have that.

As soon as you let those people have that, you have that.

It's just a discreet way of passing off to them.

But Ziegler sent it to the press, to Clark McGregor, to the others.

Why don't you stand?

There's no problem.

Just do that.

Just put out the notice.

And why don't you stand?

You can see that that's the way it ought to be done now.

It's ridiculous for me to go over every year to do the staff.

I mean the cabinet and sub cabinet too.

I mean that's a little informal thing that just says so the junior family

They enjoy the Christmas decorations at the White House.

President and Mrs. Nixon have graciously asked me to announce that they're going to be having a Sunday afternoon camp.

I think that's the thing to do.

You need some kind of a printed thing that goes to them that you use for events.

And perhaps if you go over to the White House, this will be for the night and so forth and so on.

to hold the violence to that purpose.

Do you agree that we don't need to shake hands with any of them this year?

Yes.

I mean, the only concern would be that we're stuck having people who claim they don't see us.

Oh, no, we've been blocked with them.

Okay.

Overcome that, and we're trying to, you know, we're working to move them into the dinners and all that.

On the other thing, why don't you have them?

I was thinking of where it might be an opportunity to do a youth event sometime, to do some young people, young leaders.

The old, I mean, we already mentioned the key senators and congressmen, maybe putting in some of the younger bucks.

Now, one group in particular, those conservative TV guys like Bud Lundgren, Bud Lundgren's around the country.

You already mentioned that we're going to have some elections.

Don't overdo it.

We have a strong energy with the planning type of business things.

I think we have done enough of those.

But we're going to agree or not?

Yeah, we've got to keep working at it.

You've got to keep working at it.

I don't think we need to have a business council in the end.

No, exactly.

Other nice business guys are out there.

And that's the first look.

Now, I was thinking that

I will consider it, I will consider it on occasion if I'm around.

I might pop in, you know, for a, for a, uh, the difficulty of doing many racking groups.

And if you don't come to the National, you have a problem.

I guess that's the problem.

But leaving the country, when the people are out of town, I could pop in.

I could do it one or two ways.

I could either pop in, or if it was a discussion of some sort that everybody wanted to hear a little, I could drop in once.

What I'm getting at is it could have a Halloween effect.

You're just getting a story out to the president.

The president sits and listens for a while.

And I go out and I drop in at 9 o'clock.

The boys sit around.

We've had some guys on solid, let's say.

Look into it.

I'd love to, you know, I don't care if the tennis set, but they are something.

I'm going to put up some bleachers out here, which should be easily done.

I mean, you can put them around the tennis court.

I mean,

Is there a rule in there that's good enough for a hundred people to sit?

Is it but horrible?

Oh, I think so.

You mean to have a tennis match like that?

Yeah.

To invite them.

Just think what it would mean for Billy Jim, Gene King, to play there, for example.

You know, to have a match.

We could have the television up there so they could do it.

And to have Stan instead play somebody else.

And I'd walk like a dog in a tennis match.

Now this is a historic part.

I mean, it occurred to me that since Tag the Wonder bring down that fall yard or something, that everybody wants to play Hallihan for all they have is out there.

Why not some of our friends?

Get my point?

I think that would be healthy.

You don't have big bleachers, just enough for a hundred people.

I don't need a big crowd.

There'd be no problem with that.

Yeah.

I don't know whether it's Rome.

I don't know where you put bleachers.

Or maybe the trees are too close.

I think you can over on this side.

But if you could, if you just put up some nice bleachers, and you have a hole then shut up with the linemen and all the rest, then hell, they might apologize to you.

They probably would.

And I don't know how we could do it, but if they'd help us, we could share it.

Probably have two matches, have a pro match and an amateur match.

Get that little girl, you know that?

Yeah.

Before it's too late to go.

You know, I was amused.

I said, you know, I was just ashamed that President Nixon is apparently not going to go to balance.

Balance, yeah.

Who the hell's balance is he talking about?

We've got to have a balance in Europe.

I've never seen a balance like that.

It's still a balance against the conservatives.

We're just trying to get it.

We have four.

Or they're better than Mr.

Insatiable.

Also, for an evening at the White House, I am implying the thing.

We only have one.

Just one more.

I have a point to make about it.

We really ought to do that.

Well, what do you think, you know, that Mark's got to deal with?

Is that just too absolute a point?

He's had it to the women.

A lot of people think so, but I don't know.

I just think... Well, he's our friend.

He's got an enormous following.

He's got to deal with our kind of people.

Could he have some sort of...

Does he have a variety of type of shows?

Does he have guests?

They're pretty undistinguished.

You know, they're accordion players, and they have a compound, and boys and girls.

And he dances with those old women, and he cries at those people who love him.

Well, you know, they canceled this television show.

Of course, they had the damnedest outcry imaginable, and they set up an independent network.

The ABC network canceled the show last year, cut in the last season.

So this season, they've now put together an independent network just for the Lawrence Welk show, and he's got more stations now carrying it than had it when it was on the network.

And it's, you know, it's an enormously popular show.

I think very well.

I know the first day you complete it, I might have held up.

I don't know.

Well, they have to do it to establish the rating in the first place.

in that first go round of that main.

It's going to be dirty.

Hang on a second.

Another thing that occurs to me is to find a reason to have a reception where we've been fighting over a considerable amount of sand.

Maybe it's a reason for us to give something for Goldwater to get with my wife.

If you see a guy that's chilling trying to get out of the ice, notice that he did start out with that.

But I'm thinking that a lot of those guys are good.

I think that we've got to have a goldwater puppy birthday or a puppy fair or a goldwater birthday or something like that.

I was wondering if we might offer Charlie Ryan a tango job.

If you don't get it to somebody else.

He's a great internationalist.

Ansel Stratus will pay on that panel.

Congress is stuck on a lot of turnkey.

Well, that's what they say.

He's a great politicalist.

We had a plan to boot him from some of the

Let's take a crack at that, too, to help all of us.

Those are the two names I have in mind.

Last night, we had to send somebody to Moscow on a trade.

He said, should it be Peterson or Stans?

And I said, Stans.

I said, God damn it, he's been wanting to go for two years and everything, and we've just got to, we owe it to him.

He's got to go, and it's not going to be more controlled.

He still has his sense.

He deserves it.

Don't you agree?

I sure do.

Yes.

I mean, I totally agree.

How soon will that be?

We have our own product, our own source of energy.

Now my first thought is to do the same thing I was doing then.

Then do a press thing.

Then press.

So we're going to get our press conference all the way there.

And go on, I mean, leave without a problem.

Do you do that in the office?

No, I'll do it out there in the press room.

Yeah.

So that you're on.

But we're going out.

And not a lot.

But don't.

I'll say, I'll take your questions.

Now, most of them will be online.

I'm going to question some on page two.

And I'll take them all.

But I'll say, I'll be selling Henry's championship.

Yeah.

I know.

But I think it's a good thing.

So tell us.

That has to be in there, doesn't it?

Yeah.

12 o'clock.

Because that's kind of a delay.

It's not bad.

12 o'clock.

That's good.

Yeah.

I don't want to risk getting this out, but...

Oh, I guess you can tell Buchanan, can't you?

So you think.

No, I don't do it with him.

I'd simply say that I thought I had an announcement on it.

Well, no, you'll guess it's about Vietnam.

If you're gonna say anything, the thing you're selling China, tell them what it is.

The worst thing is he's going to start guessing and start trying to anticipate something.

Because Pat, you know, his fears get the best of him.

Well, if you tell him you think you're going to surrender to China or something, why don't you keep it quiet?

Keep it quiet, yeah.

And I think it's probably better to tell him.

And say, I will wait a little bit until the end of the week about Thursday, Friday, and say, no, this is the deal.

So I'm going to just open this up.

And that will all come around.

I mean, let's get started on the briefing book now.

Well, but when I say excuse, I don't, I think it's too early.

I think, look, no use in starting the briefing book until we get past the base for announcement call.

We'll get all the odds and ends and so forth and so on.

I think phase two, see, he's trying to announce phase two.

I do.

And you have...

You're clear on Monday, except for if you have one meal and tomorrow you've got to know what you've done and where you've come from.

This is going to be all that.

I'm not going to put this much into it.

Okay.

I had an interesting reaction.

I made a note on it in the summer.

The, you know, the Detroit exercise was a cameo for a man he asked for because of the location of the meeting.

Who's he?

It was quite interesting how very favorable the spell was, written at least by the Detroit Patriots.

And outside, would you agree, it may be, what I'm getting at is it may be, that the thing, it gets back to this, it may be not with all this, or I'm going to turn you on to him, sir.

Well, not just out there, because it got picked up in the nation.

This is just impressive.

We can always, you know, fall off our asses.

I meant in terms of Scott Allen, in terms of all that.

I mean, they thought there was humor in it.

They thought it was good spirit.

They thought it was leadership and all that.

You get that where anybody can see it.

When you get out of Washington and do anything,

You know, to get that kind of reporting on it, because they're surprised, because they've read only what they think he's trying to put out.

Only what, you know, you can read about it.

The guy, Mr. Taylor, said, no, I had an urban league out there.

He said, well, it was really impressive to him.

He said, I did it without notice.

Well, now, for Christ's sake, I have done everything without notice.

I wonder, I don't know, you just don't know what.

It gets back to this media book kind of thing.

I guess that doesn't get across.

See, the part about our media here, even when they don't get the negatives out, they never get the positives out, or they sell them.

Well, when they say that, they don't build it up in a way that actually appears important.

And it's become routine now in this town.

Everybody knows you do everything without notes, so nobody pays any attention to the fact that you do it without notes.

It isn't surprising that when they cover something here, it isn't surprising that you didn't have notes because they know you won't.

Why don't you look at the IMF thing?

That was quite a speech without any notes.

Agreed.

Well, you know, it wasn't a horrible effort for me, too, when I went in.

Of course, I can tell you that I...

If that was the equivalent of a major address, you were making damned important an international scholarship.

Well, I wasn't really.

I just said what I had been said.

But the effect of it still is that.

And my point is that we are...

I think that...

I think that we go overboard here.

I think that I have, and maybe we all do, in terms of saying that everything has got to be just a slim difference, well-planned, well-organized, and take it out.

I had my parents out there with the POWs.

You know, I didn't pick the land lines.

You know, they prepared a lot of stuff, and we had the POWs.

I didn't use a thing they prepared when I went out there, you know.

I had to do it right at the top of my head.

I mean, of course, people were thinking, but...

because I had to play that audience like it was.

See my point?

Yeah.

And I think we just don't have it.

Well, you haven't.

In any of those that you've done, you've done nothing but score smash hits.

You haven't.

Well, you haven't lost any ground on any.

No.

And you keep the ground on all of them.

You keep big ground on some and medium ground on others.

Right.

So never lost.

And you can't figure on doing things just because you don't lose ground glass, right?

But if you have the potential for that kind of game, you got out of the POW, and as you got, I think, out of the IMF, I think you got a very big, chunky game out of that.

And I don't know why that trip across the country got so much mileage, but it picked up more than most of the stuff you were done.

Cal Stop Christian.

It was different little things.

Now, that was a dopey trip to Montana.

And to go into that dam, which there was no reason to go to, and to stage the thing of the cement thing, yeah, that was a hell of a, hell of a picture.

Good, it was a, it was a good picture.

Well, you guys go on a roll.

Well, one of them being Mike Mansfield and the other one being you.

It was, it was...

This is Frank Hunter.

He's in Florida again.

He's gonna do, uh, this is in, uh, the, the, the Monday thing.

But this is his, his, uh, three years he's worked, sorry, 11.2.

He's a lousy, crazy, condemned guy.

He's got a, you know, he's got a better gift for words, I think, than Sapphire.

What do you think?

I think he does.

In fact, he's been linked to leadership, a positive presidency.

So what he's done is taken, he's covered a whole range of accomplishments in all the areas, welfare, drugs, Vietnam veterans, manpower improvement, foreign aid, education reform.

And then all of this, they were closed.

I've practically had to have a revolution in the National Committee to get those done, because they keep wanting their newsletter, you know, to be this political attack mechanism, which is also important.

But you need this, when you're saying to our people, our supporters, you need this kind of stuff.

They need to see that, by God, he's getting something done, and the papers are recorded.

Because people don't do much of that.

You know what?

I think some of that is trying to make it true to some of these sparks, too.

Whatever it is, do we hear anything?

Do we hear anything that people ever see that?

No, no.

They do, huh?

Yeah.

Notice I have them off the post.

Yes, they are.

I don't know.

What do they do?

Oh, I don't know.

That kind of people, I should get a whole group of people to get some.

He loves this company.

He takes Nixon, a man of principle, to the New York Times.

He loves to take them.

Take them to the Washington Post and the L.A. Times and the Denver Post.

He picks his papers.

He's got to take the big old studio together.

Why don't we, uh... Why don't we...

The other...

I don't think we should be quite as, yes, we don't have to be quite as, I don't think I want a lot added to the schedule.

I'm thinking of that Q&A that, that kind of student reaction did, just the fact that, let's face it, that I, in that particular field,

One of the most effective people.

Because I have a good feel for humor.

See, it's another thing.

Any big press gives us any credit for the humor side.

I said, you know, you have to finish that.

So we're, well, that's just a goddamn lie.

You know, there's, oh, my humor's subtle.

I don't tell stupid, foolish stories and that sort of thing.

But they, uh, of course, that's the area that I would love that to be covered on television, too.

And, and, well, I think you've got it figured out now.

No, but let me, even locally, that forces the local press, they know that the people have seen it.

And I think there's, too, that year theory of the TV keeping the press on.

I think local coverage, by the way, is very good.

The one thing I thought we did not get much out of was my press thing in Oregon.

I did a whole head of press conference with those people.

There was some.

It's funny, even John Osborne, this week, has written a very positive column.

He's got a couple little things in the back, but a very positive column on the...

and everything, he concludes that he was very moved by the Hero-Helan meeting, obviously, and says so.

He said it was very impressive, the brass bands and the president with great consideration and skill handling this visit or something, you know.

He said, as I stood in that painting and watched, I was proud of my president, or something like that, you know.

He said, it may have been a meaningless gesture, but it was a good thing to do.

And I was glad that he did it or something like that.

You know, it's sort of a little emotional touch that morning's present.

It's actually kind of the end of the journey for me or something like that.

All right.

So, there they go.

Oh, that was good.

Just break it.

Kevin, you need to answer consistently.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, no.

I'm here.

Oh, it's all inside this one.

Bring it in, bring it in.

Do you have a burger?

No, no burger.

He has not been cooking.

Oh, yes.

All right.

Well, how's that?

How are the controllers?

That's over here in the apartment.

We're going to sit up and go.

After reading the black book,

How would you like to start today?

Well, we can start here, but one of two ways that you mean, Mr. President, are answering any questions that you may have on specific issues, or if there are troublesome issues going, perhaps we can address ourselves a little first.

Otherwise,

Well, let me ask this.

In terms of the general propositions that were set out in the Black Book, is that about where we are now, where we need to be, to consider ?

Well, I can identify .

One that, for example, is in my mind that I've done a lot of thinking about is that I

That seems like a detail, but I think it's terribly important that it could kill this country like nothing.

I agree.

Well, we went over the memo.

Yes, the COOC went over the memo that was at the beginning of the black book.

Yes, everybody was there.

That's great.

Everybody was there.

And I have a revision of that coming over.

I'm sorry it's going to be a couple minutes late.

But we made six changes from that, which I can identify for you.

In the end, we had a long discussion of whether the COFC should specify a goal, a contract goal, for raising the election.

And I think that a very clear sentiment of the group was that the city obviously should, but they decided to change the statement of the goal instead, which at that point said, 2% to 3% inflation rates be reached in 1972.

And it was changed to say, by the end of 1972, with a case that we didn't expect to be that speedy.

But this was a goal also to emphasize what was already there,

But the achievement of which we have done a cooperation of everybody, not just one, but probably an administration or a couple of other Council members, is a standard to be used in judging where it was to go in our policy of conviction.

A second change was, on that one, it was quite an issue with this.

This wasn't the right to touch that, which was at least a half hour.

It was an important point.

was what the majority, very clearly the majority, almost four, five, one, I said it all, 50 of them acted to really make it a viable program and to make it something that people will understand.

And they all recognize the hazard of the fact that we're probably going to end up in three and a half to four years.

And sure, isn't that a worry last?

That's what we'll make.

All the worry about it is how far it says it don't work.

What was made that we might not need to keep it?

I would say three percent.

I would say two to three.

Well, the idea of getting ahead is why not set something at lower than three percent maybe?

Below three percent.

What I'm getting at is that three percent might be, so if you get 3.5,

I'll fuzz it up a bit.

I can see the, I can just see the story every month, the CPI comes up.

Are they going to make 1065?

Are they going to make 1051 or 1054?

Is it irrelevant?

So it's 1% off.

Well, go ahead.

I raised the point that we could get down to 4% by next fall.

I would say we're playing very quickly.

We've got a set of goals in two, three, and we get to four.

We've got a line in two places.

That's what we're playing.

We had quite an argument about this.

I know you consider it a loss.

But we lost.

We lost.

But we came.

We came.

Well, I guess you lost.

So what I'm hearing now is that if that number of people in the cabinet, and of course I know all the birds feel the same, but if that number of people feel that way, it means that we may lose the country in presenting the damn thing.

Well, this is a different party.

And I'm just scared about it.

Nothing that we do obviously should

But nevertheless, we're fairly well-bound.

And I must say at the outset, we tried to lay the groundwork yesterday for the problems that we've covered today, that everyone would speak their mind on these issues, that we would then, if necessary, we would vote.

And the vote would bind us all.

subject to the right of a member and the right of the city in effect to set forth their individual views on the realization that you were going to make the final decision.

But once the decision was made, if you made the decision, every single one of us would be mad regardless of what the decision was.

And we tried to do that so that we don't have any individual carping or backbiting or saying, well, I didn't agree to that, I didn't agree to that.

So that's the basis on which these recommendations come in.

All right.

This is a real deadline because in order to make progress on the weekend, there is something to say.

So I'm making it starkly clear what the rest of the day is that we've got to work on.

On the other hand, if we don't think we can do much by way of the deferred weekend, it's going to take very certain action.

on the part of those who will be negotiating events in order to keep the average down to attain the goal, and therefore we risk, as John and I used the term, the phrase we use, that we'll do better ourselves and be the victor of that year, by the goal we can have.

Sure.

Mr. Chairman, there was a various case between me and Peter, when, on the one hand, I'm sorry, the study is so proportionally equal to the arithmetic of all studies,

And doing that enforced, in effect, the deferral of the, setting aside the deferred wage increases.

And that was challenged as to its workability, whether you could really do that and expect to get by with it.

And really, when pressed, they all backed off.

And so,

Yeah, they are going back and forth on this, too.

The Archer's memorandum said we could do that.

He knows that.

Oh, you can.

So what the hell do you do when they have a strike?

the deferred wage increase, or roll it back instead.

We'll go back, we'll reopen the sealed contract, that's what his memorandum suggested.

You read this, what the price is, you reopen the sealed contract.

The sealed contract doesn't want to be reopened until we reopen general owners.

He doesn't want to reopen it.

See, there's the point of it.

And so the deferred wage increase, you really get down to that, this is basically a contract, it's reopening the contract.

So that's the problem, I see what they have there.

I think from now on out, things are going to be awful tough.

But in terms of the past, I don't see how the hell we can do that.

Well, the argument goes like this.

And I think it must be said for, first, the American people who want the wage price rates to be followed by something that is, uh, that is straight, that is set, that is certain.

I agree.

It's fair.

I argue that if you don't set a goal, that in the creation of the pay board, they will have no...

They will have no restraints.

They will have no standard by which to judge their actions.

Third, that we would at least talk to this in such a way that deferred increases that inevitably have to be allowed, it seems to me, would be taken as a lump.

We just approve those in effect between 9 and January.

That's my own personal view.

And not even in effect count that.

That would matter.

That's the way.

And not include that.

I agree with you in statistical computation.

But you agree we have to give it to her.

Oh, I don't know.

Sure.

Sure you do.

Did Arthur come along with that?

He continues to argue that we should go to the labor people and try to get them to extend

their contract term in effect.

What are you going to do with that?

That'll be good.

I believe you have a clue.

Can I talk to you?

I think we'll get back to your order.

A reference to the verdict increases in the same way that we did in the construction industry.

That'll be discussed.

Right.

Contrary to what everybody said, there has not yet been an instance when a verdict increase was canceled in the construction industry.

The next point is that this is

The onus of achieving this score, two to three percent, is not going to be on you.

It's not even going to be on your committee, the cost of living council.

It's going to be on the pay board, which is a tripartite board, that yet after a reasonable length of time, let's say six months, they blow up.

They blow up and they haven't done anything.

They take them off.

They need to take them off.

Either you take them off or the cost of living council takes them off.

The cost of living council could, in effect, take the responsibility over next summer.

You can set other rates.

You can set new standards.

You know, it is good.

You've got a lot of action.

Plus, if we are making progress, the goal is 2% to 3% or about to, I'm not sure, by the end of the year.

But you've got 60 days after the election, before the end of the year, and that gives you a little bit of running room, a little bit of running room.

It gives you the whole quarter of the next quarter.

that figures won't be available until January on what you actually did accomplish.

So you have some critical moves throughout the last game, but you're ready to save yourself.

You're not making progress.

Did you pick a time in which you noticed that you were nothing?

That's a much more fundamental point.

That's something that didn't happen to us.

But you believe that the regular question that's in your eyes, what do you think it would be next year, workers?

It's four now, right?

Approximately four.

approximately four with the ups and downs and so forth.

Do you agree or do you not?

Now let's assume, now let's assume you don't have any of this stuff because I can't even let me go.

So that's the idea that I was having for a moment.

Let's assume all we're doing is putting little cosmetics over here to make people feel better, make the businessman feel better.

All these poor bastards were, you know, they don't want to go out and be men anymore.

They want to do this and that.

So we're going to make them feel better.

It's the people who are going to feel their body's inflation and all that sort of thing.

change, there's going to be a lot of mind with the heads, and they're cooperating with the program.

That's true of the public, the law suitors, and I know all these things.

But anyway, let's assume that all this is about Spanish, that what really happens is these great underlying forces that we always believed were going to affect it.

What do you think it's going to be next year?

I was going to say three to four.

I was going to say three and a half to four.

Do you feel that we are on the way down some of the levels?

Yes, yes.

How can we do that?

Would you look at the wholesale price?

I think I would look basically at what's happening to the unit cycle costs.

And I think that's what...

Well, they've grown much less over this year and the last year.

And I think we still have a lot of productivity going ahead of us than we would have had.

And you're making this set up just so that by the time you get it, you will both be in a relationship of 1% to 2%.

Yes, but nothing extraordinary, not Japanese style, but just a style of advancing economy.

All right.

You know, the reason I ask this question is this.

I had a very little faith in this whole town.

Third of all, I have so much crap that we have to put out there, spread out there, because just like you've got to play it sometimes in the foreign policy field, you've got to tell people a lot of stuff that's wrong, because you can't use it otherwise.

In order to get it to go, you've got to say, well, this is not the other thing.

We're for peace and that and that and that.

We really can't do that.

Right.

But here, what's really involved is that we have gone on this track, not because we all believe it,

We bought this tractor because we realized that 75% of the American people and 90% of the opinion leaders in this country, who are soft and dandy and permissive on everything, in terms of this kind of thing, who no longer want, as I said, Santa, particularly a businessman.

particularly those of the great intellectual elite, Nietzsche and so forth, the New Yorkers and the business council, that group was strong, very strong.

All of a sudden, I said, what are we going to do?

That's why we had to do this.

They otherwise wouldn't have bet.

So now we've done it for them.

And they aren't getting betting.

And they're saying, we're going to wait and see.

I know that's why you've got to put this thing on.

But what I say is this.

In terms of setting the goal, let's not kid ourselves.

Unless we believe that our old plan has some momentum working for it,

Let's not rely on this very uncertain deal where we're depending on labor out here and we're depending on support here and the rest.

I just have a feeling that it's going to have an effect.

Now, it would be all over wrong, but have we many times in this room said, why is it that those who

have had the guy ask us to take them up because they failed them so they want us to fail them right that's the reason i raised the question but if we're on the way so we can set a goal set a goal and that at least it is it is to a certain extent some

some standard that the people in labor negotiations will have to look to.

And they've got to say, all right, are we going to have productivity, productivity plus a 3%?

They'll take 3%, of course, the higher end spectrum, plus 3% for our rise in the cost of living.

That's what we're trying to do.

Otherwise, if you don't set a goal, they're going to say, well, we know, we think it's going to be 5%.

So that is 6% or 8%.

That would be what you're down to in the question.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Now Vietnam's working out.

It's going to finish.

It's tough and long.

They'll survive.

We'll be out.

And we'll be on for all that sort of thing.

Maybe.

There's a chance at least.

But the point is that in seeking the immediate approval of what is undoubtedly

the great weight of public opinion in this country.

Let's not kid ourselves about how they're going to feel six months from now if we fall down.

That's what I'm getting at.

The things that we've got to get back to our own convictions if we think we're on the right track with what we've been doing with our monetary and fiscal policies.

Go ahead, George.

Well, I basically agree with the first part of this.

I think we'll make a mistake if we allow for the mechanism of the payboard and the impression to grow that the only thing that counts are these union contracts.

Because that's going to take a fraction of the total labor force.

Twenty-six percent.

Correct.

And, for example, the kids graduating from college who are going out looking for jobs are not getting more than the kids who went out the year before.

They're lucky to find a job.

That's a good point.

And so on.

And I think this kind of thing is going on all over the economy.

So that is cooling the wage price.

And we are always, and we've said this many times,

were all sort of captured by the headline of how big a settlement was for this or that visible thing.

But that's not the whole economy by a long shot.

And I think the labor market factors are working strongly in other areas.

So that's why you're betting on a continuing high unemployment level.

No, I think the labor market conditions that we have had have taken their toll.

And that we can expand.

We have plenty of room to expand it out without recreating the situation.

And business people are not making the same errors they were making previously.

They thought they had to go out and get it for this and that.

I would have to agree, isn't it?

Some of the few areas that we know of, take the college graduates, take all the school graduates,

Oh, my God.

We were around, and I was doing it from 65 through 68.

Hell, I didn't interview them.

They interviewed me.

I said, what are we going to get?

How much is a coffee break?

How much am I going to be a partner?

It's turned around now.

I'm just talking.

They finally had an interview with the kids again.

You've been through it, haven't you, John?

They interviewed the original.

This is a factor that's changing, and that's at a very esoteric level.

But this is all the way down the line, and it's changing to a certain extent.

I think it is.

But also, that's productivity.

Why?

Because he was working against that job.

He thinks that job is worth having.

And we're hoping not to.

Are you sensitive?

Are you coming?

Are you still going to agree?

That's not true.

That's true.

It's true.

He said they can see a discernible difference in attitudes on the part of the senator.

And he said we are turning out the best quality of cars we've turned out in a long time.

Let me get a piece of that.

Well, that's one point, and I think that we need to be careful that we don't get trapped into this notion of, because there are a lot of big union-negotiated weight increases, that the game is lost.

I just don't think that's true.

The second thing is, it seems that there have been statements, Arthur has made this a couple of times, 30 people have.

Does he sit on it?

Cost of the promise, yes.

Okay.

that when it comes to that, you don't have to execute another phrase.

And I know we talked about that in San Diego.

Obviously, yesterday was something that you could do if you wanted.

But I think we should ban that from the discussion as a subject.

I just believe that we didn't hear enough talk about it because I think the fact that it was a free system and some people didn't get here to serve the country has created a country that all of a sudden the curtain may come down

And you better be ready.

So that's the reverse of the psychology we're trying to encourage.

So I don't want to have the idea that I'm not a priest.

Not in any discussion.

I'd get you put into this room.

Yeah.

Discuss it.

But I think if it comes down to it, our needs are at the end.

That would escalate the demands.

We've got to just cut it off the knees and just have it right.

Yeah.

Okay.

The third thing I would mention, and this is by the way of the...

The only thing from the budget is that the basic fiscal and monetary policy is what we think determines things.

And we do have to be very careful about this, but we're in a difficult situation now.

I think the star I heard in Texas should be

more difficult, but if next year, in the middle of the year, we find the economy is moving very strongly and the personal savings rate should drop very fast, and there is a chance of emergence of a real strong demand for inflation again,

and we have a gigantic deficit at full employment, then I think we're really in trouble.

So I think we do have to... What do you do?

Well, I think what we have to do is to get this phase two in place, and get it running as fast as we can, and then kind of stop spending a lot of time on it.

Start thinking about the...

You know, you get consumed by this stuff, you know.

But don't talk that game to Michael Harker, for instance.

That's what he'd want me to do.

Uh, about, uh, March of next year, he said, I'll act out on my supply so that if it crashes right in October, that you cannot have, right?

If it breaks, it'll go up.

I think he's already, you know, he was way up, now he's on the way down.

Uh, he's two back.

You can't give any excuses, John, as we have learned before you were here.

You can never give Arthur excuses, or tell him to do what he ought to do with the money supply scheme.

Besides, give him the facts of the why, not to do with the problems, the budget, the problems, the psychology of the country, the problems, the problems, the problems, the way of Christ, and so on.

We could.

Two quick points on October 2nd.

I think there is a danger, there is a possibility that down the way we could be generating too much of a head of steam.

My guess is, however, that we are talking about 73 or something like that, not so much next year, because we've got to be able to topside ruin here now.

The second point is that

The paradox is that I think we're in the stage where the vigorous expansion of the economy could be helpful, because without that, or with it, we almost certainly would get very strong gains in productivity.

We've seen it happen four or four and a half percent in the last many years.

Well, with a lesser incidence of first-year weight increases in all front-loaded companies, we'd have, say, an average compensation increase of 7%.

And we got a 4% median productivity.

And basic liquor costs are in the balance of about 3%.

And that gives us some chance.

Go ahead, Judge.

I would not disagree with that, but it's also impossible to overdo it.

Well, I think if a high fiscal 73 was sufficient, it's horrible.

I should have asked about, I guess, the schedule done for a lady.

Right here sometimes, too soon.

Well, I think we are going into that season now.

We need to get a signal.

I mean, the internet doesn't have to be transmitted.

I would just raise time.

Some people are now coming back to this.

So we've got this subject out of the way.

I have to raise all these points.

Well, I think that the arguments John heard are convincing.

I think you would be able to follow up on what I did about it.

I think the doctor said it.

Said it.

But, well, it's paradoxical.

And even though I think I'm already on it, I would think most of you are.

I think that the...

I think you have a situation where I think the majority

and a very heavy majority of the very intolerant, decent people on that customary council would be terribly frustrated.

They are our friends and so forth.

And this is why we tend to do it.

And if we don't do it, it's going to fail from a psychological standpoint.

So I do not go for that reason.

Does that sell you?

Yes, that's better.

I don't think we're following.

I mean, the worst thing I could do is to follow the totals and follow them at the beginning.

But on the other hand, you can't swim upstream.

You can't do it.

There's no way.

So what we have to do is to start swimming upstream.

Try to sort it forward.

I think it's fair to say, Mr. President, that we have made the argument, George and I and others should have made the argument as strong as we could.

Yes, sir.

Or no rule.

Sure.

I think, in practice, that we certainly were not persuasive.

I think we have to be.

We have to make the most we can of what Secretary May has done.

This is not the administration's unilateral goal.

This is a kind of

challenge that you've pledged to all this machinery, to the, the way it was in the second third law, to come forward and just do this.

I think all of us, especially the citizens people, tell you what I have to do.

And the second third law, if you look at it in another context, they leave.

Take the whole business of our community and we talk about a generation of peace.

And I talk about the fact that I rather believe, and I think this is quite true, that we may well be seeing now the last war of the Americans with the flag.

We have to know if he did it before anybody, if there is another one.

This whole generation of these people, I, more than anybody else, know that that would be a bunch of malarkey.

Jackass or somebody in Cuba or somebody else.

All of us.

The Chinese could turn on us.

The Russians could turn on us.

Who else?

Well, what you have to say is, because you've got to give the people a great blow out there.

You've got to give the world a blow in this case.

You said, well, we're going to have a generation of peace.

And what I think what I've heard us say, leading up to today, is that when you present this program, you say that we're creating the pay board, and you're creating the price board, whatever name it has.

And if these function, if they have a cooperation with American people, and if they function as they, as people have indicated they want to function, we can indeed function.

reach a goal of between two and three percent, which is their goal, it's their job.

This is our chance.

I've called on all the American people to join together.

That's for us, for the public interest, for those selfish private interests, etc.

But it's just a matter of rain, it doesn't matter anymore, if we're all worried about it.

It doesn't matter what it takes, we just have to go out and do it.

And I thought, I think that's important.

Thank you.

All right.

We'll go to that.

Well, the next point we discussed was the point you raised about the profits, the word profits, and the name of the commission.

And after several discussions, I think the decision was to retain the word profits as a kind of credit for our concern with this issue that doesn't

Really?

Let me argue it the other way for a minute, if I can.

First, Secretary and I are way out there on this subject.

I mean, I admit problems.

I believe in them.

I said in Detroit, and I honestly believe this, that you should reward companies that are profitable, not help us.

That's exactly true.

You said the same thing.

And we all know that this is funny.

This is all we talk about problems is money.

Crap.

We also know that, and I also know politically, that it's a very sensitive issue.

We've got to do something about the profits.

A lot of people in Arkansas can't understand why we don't drill interest in the profits and so forth.

In other words, that's the art of the populace and so forth and so on.

On the other hand, let's look at the other side of this.

You stick that word profit in there.

Well, first, we can backtrack and say, well, we're referring to windfall profits, and that's something else again.

All right, put it in there.

Control the profits.

I wonder if you're really not looking at the bottom.

I wonder if by here, we don't go too far into the running of it.

Now, here's what I would have in mind.

I would have in mind

And I know you rejected this so far, but let me just follow up with you.

And that commission on prices, period.

And then I will explain the commission on prices.

Prices means costs.

Prices means rents.

Prices means interest.

And prices also means windfall profits.

But rather than talking about profits, windfall profits, I would say it's time in this country now that instead of just assuming that every time we have increases in productivity that it goes to either profits or it increases prices, let's give the customer, the consumer in this country a break.

Let's start having a situation where people get some of the benefit.

Let's have some price reductions.

Why do we have to assume that it's 2 or 3 percent?

Why can't some areas of the economy, why can't all of us get a little break, the average guy?

Why can't prices come down?

Because you know there's a very, very strong sentiment in this country that a hell of a lot of prices ought to come down.

Now, having said all that, how do you get at that?

You see, if you're making on prices, costs, and profits, no matter if you put that in a title, the original profit says, well, the profits are too high.

The government will step in and buy off some.

I know that's not what we're talking about.

We're not talking about excess profits.

We're talking about buy off some.

And then what happens when it builds the public sector is we notice the excess profits and excess work and so forth.

On the other hand, if here's, of course, all we've got is 12 million,

We certainly ought to give hell to some of these goddamned chain stores and some of the rest who really, really, who do learn to spread, spread on heat prices, which you've been through.

You've been to several places, you know, where they think they could have come down some, but they were just sort of building it up.

My feeling is, too, that looking at such sensory things as the market, the stock market,

looking at the attitudes of the businessmen and so forth.

That Patrick Henry, you know who really we're talking to here?

And this is a sad commentary, but we're talking to the American leader in class.

We're not talking to that poor shit about that guy.

I mean, he's done pretty well.

You said that the consumer's the hero of this damn thing.

I mean, he's buying pretty well and so forth and so on.

Not as well as he could, but...

Retail sales are a lot better.

Your comment that business is better than sentiment about business.

What is sentiment about business?

Who is it?

Well, what is it?

It's by the goddamn businessmen, by the managers.

the media, who are, of course, part of the same elite, and the bulletin, and the intellectual elite, generally, they're the ones who say, oh, the economy's in a hell of a shape, there's no confidence, and so forth and so on.

So we're, let me come to the group, we're talking to the business guy, all right?

So you talk to the business guy and say, well, I have two or three percent purchasing power, profits.

My God, I can see those guys just going, I mean, they always, they're going to be looking for every possible excuse

not to bet on a future of this economy.

Because they hear night after night on their television.

They read it day after day in their magazines, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And they hear it, and they're going to hear it more on a rising percentage, not just from Georgians, but from every opposition leader on the political side.

And so these business guys, they go home, and they go to their plants and so forth.

Well, gee, things don't look so good.

And they'll be looking for this, they'll be looking for a candle.

And what I'm getting at is this, that I, again, they have to be convinced that we come up with a problem.

I know you're ready to read the argument from a political standpoint.

But it seems to me that the way you could handle it is to handle it at a lower case and to say we're going to have to pay it on prices.

And then, in the briefing, say, problems are controlled.

When the Congressmen come in, they say, what about problems?

Oh, yes, but we are going to ask for the precious people to go back and put a sentence, whatever that is, in the speech, and go back and people participate in the rest.

I assume you considered all that and rejected it, but...

I just have a very uneasy feeling about putting the word promise way out there in front.

First, I think it's totally dishonest.

Second, I don't think there's any disagreement about what the action should be and what the policy of this commission should be.

So it is entirely a customer question of the image.

There was a favorable image to the great mass of people that there was one that worked more than the unfavorable image in the business of management.

Or you tend to minimize the argument and controversy by going ahead and putting it in the title of that management.

Well now let me say, why can't you get in with

And under this subhead, rents, interest, dividends.

That's the way I would prefer it.

I just have a feeling it's better not made.

Maybe we'll get all the heat from the business community by putting problems as a subject that we would forget if we put it ahead of the title.

But maybe not.

Well, had the state problems.

You correctly analyzed the feeling of, again, of the county in fairness to him.

We had quite an instructional response.

We had it head on for some time.

And we felt that she had taken it.

The decision was a political decision.

No one wants to make growth profits in the sense that we make profits that are too high.

We can't in fact over the period of the year, we would hope that this program would be winding down, substantially wound down by the end of next year.

That simply means that by the time you could get an annual report on a company to determine what their profits were, you'd be out of business.

So we recognize the whole practical effect.

It's nothing but politics and semantics involved, right?

But we think that 75% of this is a matter of what we think.

And it is maintained.

the acceptance of the American people and getting the cooperation of the American people might work.

So if you leave out what they believe to be an integral part of the United States, the title sector of the United States, it should not be, it should not apply to you.

And therefore, they were saying that they won't cooperate.

It won't work.

So it was felt that the government, even though it might have some immediate impact on the businessman's views with respect to profits, he said, oh, God, it might have some adverse immediate impact on the start-up.

I'll get that right.

But why did it seem clear from talking to all of us that we weren't, when we meet with the business council and other groups, that we weren't indeed going to be looking at their profits to try to see that they don't make more than they did last year?

that they will settle down, and yet you've taken a weapon out of the hands of your enemies.

And every day labor is going to be acting.

Look what Meade said yesterday, the time he says, he's quarreling, he makes this mean, vicious statement yesterday.

Here's Meade, he's on the Hill, the Congress, the opposition, he's going to be every day, every day, why didn't you control the problem?

Why didn't you?

What have they said about it?

We've had a hell of a story on him.

That's right, but they just hound us.

He didn't include anything.

What about it?

What about business?

And as long as you leave a key in the arm, you just create problems for yourself.

Now, obviously, if you're willing to take the political blow,

the political blessing that we don't think you're going to take.

I'm sure we don't have the time to take you out of the title.

Not necessarily.

I think you've got to talk about it.

I heard you don't have rights to the title, for example.

No, if you... And more than that, the way I would do it, the way I would do it, John, is we'd have information on the process.

This convention will deal with these following problems.

It will, of course, deal with prices.

It will deal with costs.

It will deal with rents.

It will deal with dividends.

It will deal with winning all profits.

In other words, we deal with the people who are having the benefit.

If you're good on that basis, you set a price order, a price commission.

Kevin has four boxes under there that I ran.

Prices and profits and so forth.

I think he gets my whole job.

I just have a feeling, too, of having an awkward description up there.

Now, I agree with you guys in the problem, just like I think you guys in the interest problem.

In fact, I think that's one place where we have an error.

I think that in this case, and as if I were reading your book, I'm glad you see a few things in there, but in this case, God damn, the banks have been uncooperative.

I'm full stop.

And he looked at their problems.

My friend, who was also in the business of trying to go back before he was called in to be another man, he said, it's unconscionable what we're doing.

It's a banger.

Can we do something about that?

That's a windfall problem.

I agree they'd make a lot of money.

They'd make a lot of money 69th and 70th.

My boy, I'm coming in, son.

They coined it, my son.

Everybody else.

I'm broke.

They were coined it.

No question about it.

It'll be over this year.

No question about it.

Not yet.

At least you've got me.

May I be working that Sunday night?

in there in a way to scare them to death.

I mean, they say we're going to have them sooner, you know, but before you rule that out, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to make their lobby get to us.

I'm running.

I'm going to return to them good.

All right.

I'm going to have a different bank.

I'm going to get a different bank.

Just, you know, he's the guy that we love to get in and do something for.

This guy goes up across the stage, Rockefeller, all over the state, and becomes convinced that those guys, that's a public interest of mine.

Oh, yeah.

Harvard, Bradford, that is a real issue.

Sure.

He's talking about his people.

Well, God damn it.

John, won't you ever get into that stuff?

He's the biggest guy.

All right.

It is true that the reason is, did you ever go to a bankers convention, John?

They are the most miserable, mean, unimaginative bunch of people in the world.

That's why you get to die in the name of the best banker in the world, put up with a job that you find is a mediocre job.

Christ didn't have any competition.

All right, so get in my vest.

That's what I mean.

I'll tell you where I go to load.

And having said that, we do get some very decent guys around.

We use hand-crushed paper on them.

That's the point is that we all have banks out there.

There you go.

I think it's very terrible because the pay, the word pay is kind of short-handed.

Wages, salaries, debt, benefits, and so on.

And prices are kind of short-handed.

You see, taxes cost the profits.

That makes it much more expensive.

I kind of like the idea of prices.

It just sort of irritates me to see profits up there in such a way.

And so that's what I'll put in the speech.

I'll say, I think we also have to see that as far as when we talk about prices, that means let's give the buyer some benefit from increased productivity rather than just have it all go to profits.

I mean, there's a different order for that, and I really just...

When you have a 12% increase in productivity, I don't think those labor unions can get it all.

I don't either.

I just think they should get it all.

Increase in productivity should go in part to profits.

They should go in part, of course, to dividends.

The people who are invested by profits, of course, that would mean.

Well, that's the whole piece.

It goes part of the profits, part of the dividends.

The dividends, the pay, there's a price to die.

And the price to pay, there are some other big works to do.

Could you buy that?

I think it has to be clear, though, that we're going to do it.

Oh, sure.

It can be a sub-box.

It's got to be a sub-box.

I think that means that I'm trying to stack it right.

We're going to charge inversion.

We're going to pay for it.

It's got benefits of all kinds.

It's salaries, you take your salaries and other things.

You can get prices paid back.

I think it's impermanable.

You've got to pay more than the price for it.

And you can say, I'm going to pay more to do this.

I'm going to price for it.

And that decision, you've got a total argument answer anyway at the time of God.

You say, why not promise?

Well, we are controlling promises.

Every time that's, yes, we're doing promises, right?

Sure, you didn't listen.

There it is, right there.

We've got these people here controlling promises.

But you have it up there in that title.

I know, right?

Does it feel good?

Let's sing it.

Let's try it the other way, can we?

I don't do it.

Well, why not invest in it?

I think you'll be able to work at it.

But also, we do have a responsibility to educate the people to an extent.

You can't sit here and say, well, she was...

But this way you at least have a machine.

I think where you're an individual, if you're in an individual position, you don't even have a machine to do something about it.

To do something about a workload, I have a machine.

That's what you have to do.

But also machinery, John, machinery, frankly, for price reduction as well as price ceiling.

That's right.

It's no business of saying, for example, that price, I think this is very important, but we can put a bad, strong line in here.

that inflation psychology, the inevitability of inflation, has gripped this country.

This is wrong.

Inflation need not be inevitable.

Where is the great American tradition that as we become more productive, we will reduce our prices?

And also, we must tie this into our core.

We must remember that America is not going to be able to compete

raw.

By simply putting a ceiling on our prices for a billion and two or three percent, we have got, by America becoming more competitive, we've got to get some of our prices down in order to do it.

And a little of that, a fine number of them, we've got prices down.

And, of course, that appeals to a whole lot of people.

In other words, the cost is going to be a benefit.

Everybody ought to participate in this.

was in a draft.

And I know they had a little group in the prize commission and lost to a group of .

All right.

Well, if the next point to a discussion may change, what kind of discussion then?

to change the chairmanship of the interest and dividend committee, which we have previously described as the Secretary-General of the Treasury, to change to the Federal Reserve, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve.

And everybody agreed to that.

I've got an argument with the reservation to consult it as the board.

Well, that's not today.

It's a very diabolical thing to do.

I'm not sure of a mistake here.

You don't think he'll come back?

No, I don't.

I don't.

I don't think he'll come back.

I'm trying to get out of the township of the council.

I'm trying to see if we can structure it some other way that I have one of those as a minority of one, I guess, because I need a bus worker.

But I've got to get people to work for it.

Because they can't actually do what this township of the council, and they don't want anybody to be a director anymore.

If Ireland does decline, you have the anomaly of the Secretary of the Treasury being head of a committee, reporting to a committee headed by the Secretary of the Treasury.

I think you could thank your undersecretary in the head of that committee, Charlie Walker.

Or you could take somebody, Mr. O'Connor, just like what I think, too.

And, uh, I don't know if you have it, but, uh, or he and Mr. O'Connor, too.

That's good.

That's right.

I think, you know, another thing, too, we've got to remember this, and I just mentioned this to Hall this morning, too.

I don't want John to murder this guy.

He's a member of the National Security Council.

We've got some bad people in place in the air there, as you know.

I want John to be able to spend some time.

I want him to be able to spend some time and we take out that National Security budget.

Now, if you've got him bogged down on this kind of a troll thing, this is not a good thing.

So can we, and Herbert here from General Appliance, want you to work out ways for John to share his things?

But we have got to have very strong staff support and so forth.

so that every time somebody goes to the bathroom, they don't have to call his office.

I read that, and it's just very important.

Well, they've done an excellent job on that.

I know.

You've taken too much of this.

He's got an international manager.

He's also got a...

So he said, I'm having a job.

I just got to you yesterday.

He's doing some things because of the international manager.

They are very

Now, that could be partial part of you taking the chair of this council.

Now, you could be chair of the council for the reasons that we know, because the prestige will be honest.

The other thing is, not for you, but the main thing is that

And now then, and you should have looked too up, but now then, when somebody has to say something strong, your voice can be heard ten times as strong as anybody else's.

That's the point.

That's what you have to be, in general.

Well, I think what I'd like to do is make a change.

This is the phase one of this well-accepted district health program.

Now, everybody would say, well, why the change?

Why isn't the secretary doing this?

Does the realtor know how to do this?

Well, good.

But let me just say, while we're in the room here, Mr. John, I want all of you to work, Georgie, to work on this thing.

First, to see that John gets all the backup that he needs from a personnel standpoint.

And second, to see that as many decisions as possible and his people don't go up to him.

Okay?

Well, I think that what we have to pay more price for, because of the council, will be much less busy than where I have been.

Because we'll be at a higher, more remote level.

I think so, too.

You've come up with a big place.

I think this is great for you to come here.

I was wondering if I could turn you down.

I'll see what I can do.

Yeah, he's great.

George is an honest, proud, honest man.

He'll just make you feel wonderful.

He'll give you some love.

He'll rock around, raise hell.

You're doing a good job.

He underwrites the mortgage.

Well, I agree with some reservations since the idea of a promise to come up.

I'm not sure that I wouldn't work too hard to make a lot of the tape.

Now, augmentation, you can't never look at this prime rate.

to do anything except on consumer credit and on mortgages.

Mortgages.

And that doesn't work for the prime credit.

And that doesn't mean the prime credit is what really provides that.

And we'll stop with the big movement in the economy.

We really need somebody that will trust us with the prime credit.

We can make it symbolic.

But it's all been thought of as symbolic.

It's not around anything.

But I thought, would you mention this to him, if you would, Charles, and I won't suggest it.

And then I thought that he'd be the best motion and so forth and so on.

I think it would be an awful lot of time if he moved in that direction.

And I didn't think he'd be a hell of a good candidate.

Okay.

All right.

And we put it in the paragraphs, page 4, paragraph 7, about residential rents.

We previously had a legislative plan there.

After the legal discussion, we decided, I think, that we would not have a separate rent board.

We would put a thing in the price commission, which I hear called rent advisory board.

And that the commission would formulate the standards and procedures just as the other rents, just as they do for other things.

And the objectives will be a system that is self-administering, responsible, and prompt termination of control.

Could I suggest this?

Could I extract your advisory?

Wait a second.

And all of these, rather than being advisory, I would say the product board, the rent board, and all the rest.

So that it just makes it clear who we're going to crack and make it.

And what we do is different from what we say.

But I think it should be just the rent board.

Same with the product board.

All right.

But in paragraph 9, it's made clear that the internal revenue service is going to be the nucleus of the stack.

That's what the stack will have.

The field will be basically detailed from IRS.

Some people from other agencies may be branched onto them, but they'll be the trunk of the tree.

that the legislation is, could I ask this, if you consider, uh, George, you know, you mentioned a moment ago here at John's office, you felt there might have to be new legislation in order to get these people transferred from, I mean, take 3,000 IRS people to run the work on this or something like that.

Do you think they're, uh, do you think they're starting to work around that problem?

I think it really opens Pandora's box to go to that Congress for

In fact, we're going to have a hard time getting them to extend the, you know, to extend, as is, at least in the present situation, the bill.

But I think if you open the box and say, what kind of organization do we have to keep them out of that?

What do you think, John?

I just feel that we may have to do it, but I would keep them out of it.

I wouldn't go for any legislation on abstinence in that term.

Now this is another reason why we want to have interest in the properties that we have to show them.

I know what you're getting at.

Right.

If you don't, if we don't do it voluntarily as part of this program, they don't do it.

Well, I think that's a great comment.

I think so.

I think the beauty, the beauty of calling today price board, or net board, product board, interest board, and so forth, that needs to be brought to our interest council or our media.

And so I'm interested in that.

I'm trying to set up a committee on our plan.

Right.

Not another price board, not another price board, because this is essentially a voluntary activity.

kind of thing.

And the standards are rather different.

And we are proposing here on a level that we ask for the authority to do.

I mean, could I suggest even though it is voluntary, why not put it under the price board?

And some of that, some part of that is voluntary too.

I think for a need, the less you can have these

You know, I'd love to go back and participle something like this in the back.

And also, it looks like you're not in control.

I, you know, you don't like that.

Well, I think the problem is, well, it's logically wrong.

I know that.

But I think that the job, I think that,

job, I mean, they're mortals, so they shouldn't have to be exercised by a person with, uh, a lot of prestige and authority to put down in the division or something else.

Uh, you know, it seems to be a little awkward to put a cabinet secretary down in the chair.

And, uh, if you have some other kind of person that you can't call on the telephone and... All right.

Good.

I get you.

That's all, sir.

We are trying.

The only handy parcel we have is the interested...

Now, we have proposed a suggestion that across the living council, District 1A might establish special bodies for this cooperation in particular areas, particularly difficult-to-perform areas, such as medical care and state and local governments.

Now, there are several reasons why those are written.

are those two are out again these are voluntary cooperative advisory and the medical care thing doesn't fit under either the pay or the prices and now we will go to and state local government that can't raise seems to be some kind of a protocol problem of putting governors because we've got to have governors and mayors at the end of them or some other and five

I'm asking that they just hang out there and report to the CLLC.

Right.

I see that.

We also have a committee of the expanded productivity commission.

You remember that?

Yeah, I'll mention that.

We'll go ahead with that.

advisory group to the CLLC.

How many different people ?

We'll put a governor, a mayor, a county official on.

Added to the government group, we have two slots, so to speak, in the other members, which would love to put farm people on.

And then we would add three people on the business side, the NAF chamber and the small business panel.

There's a pretty good black small business panel, and I think it's the second black.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Well, they're represented by the public.

She's controllable.

She's highly complimented.

She represents the whole bunch.

And they're all, I think Mrs. Nauer would be fine just to put her on there.

I have one thought with regard to the name that you're getting on.

A first-class man for a public mentor would be Lon Bullard, who was the Wilson professor, Jurisprudence, Harvard.

Michael doesn't do it.

But he is one of the great scholars, but also a very fucking down, tough-minded guy.

And he's done a little bit of his work in the past, and now I think when I teach him on the horses, maybe he'll just do a hell of a job.

He's a kind of guy that I think, just knowing the kind of people you have to deal with, these bucket members, who would come ahead.

and he could come in and completely overwhelm his total ability.

I know you've got older professors here, and it's kind of what I can, I know what they do.

Is he Duke now?

No, no, no, he's Harvard.

Oh, Joe, he's, Joe Deacon.

Joe Deacon?

Yeah.

What?

Deacon.

Oh, yes, he's got his son in writing, sir.

He really wanted to appeal.

The law.

Why?

Why contracts the more than the company, of course, and not the industry?

I remember when Bill O'Reilly was a chair, he was still the chair.

Yeah.

Rich and other lawyers cut down to be very good.

He was very good.

He was very capable of all that, to be honest with you.

I think, or just for, I think he only teaches a couple of classes now, and I think he'd have time.

But I would not ask him just to be a member.

I'd put him as a chair on something, on the wedge, on a big board.

I think the wedge thing would be a good one, because he knows, he's just a, he's very well-known in contractual relations.

He's not an avid leader, and he's never talked.

And I think he has done, as a matter of fact, I think he has done some media.

But taking that off, taking that off, I think that's a lot less of issues that we have discussed except for that question outside the presentation that I'm planning to have.

Here again, there was a very strong feeling on the part of the council that you should make the presentation on television in primetime, nighttime.

And we argued quite a bit about nighttime coverage versus the daytime coverage, the noon period.

It was the feeling again that you ought to go for the maximum audience

the council that this appearance is probably more important than you were inclined to give, that why it's important, I just think, that the working people need to hear it, business people need to hear it, housewives need to hear it, that you really want the largest possible audience that you can get to justify your own time.

If you do it in the daytime, you're going to miss the great people, the working people, who are at the jobs.

You'll get the wives who are not working.

You'll get a lot of business people who are in their clubs and have speech piping on radio or television.

But you will lose an enormous amount of the impact.

And although we all agree

that the parents will not be as startling or as spectacular as, you know, the gay parents are.

Nevertheless, that everybody in the country is waiting to see, to hear and see what the face is going to be.

That you and I have been on all sides.

Well, we can poll that.

That's the only one that's interesting.

That's not true.

All the people we talk to are waiting to see what the face is going to be.

the average guy out there, you start talking about phase two, you've got to start with what the hell phase one is.

If this isn't true, we assume, we assume that, not because we sit here and we read the press for the rest of the week, it's like we all do here, we assume that, like everybody else, what's phase two?

First of all, most people don't know what the hell the word phase means.

And the second thing is that the people that really need to hear this sort of argument is that the people that need to hear it are the business people, the movers and shakers and the rest, who really do care, who really are waiting to see what our decisions are going to be and so forth and so on.

And then, and you know, whatever we do, let's assume you didn't know.

Let's make it clear that you didn't know.

At least five minutes of the most important five minutes would be covered up with about 30, about 40 minutes.

And they've got to get it on the news.

You know, it's going to be in all the marketing teams.

You could have a hell of a play that way.

You wouldn't have a whole thing on.

When you talk about a whole thing, you start talking to people about the breakdown and all this and that and the other thing and how we move from here to here to here to here to here to here.

They're lost all the time.

The disagree requires, in my opinion, probably somewhat more technical discussion than if you would like to put on before the average person.

As a matter of fact, the people in their closings for them won't know what the hell they're talking about.

But the other advantage of doing it in general

is that it is a much more orderly way, provides a much more early way for them, the briefing of the congressional people, the briefing of the news media, of the years old and so forth.

It all, it all comes on.

But the, I think what we have to verify is this, that there's, it's like our, some of our people around here say, why don't I do a press conference every week?

The reason is, is just by doing them less, more,

The point of your opinion here is that

We all think, gee, that August 15th, it wasn't that great.

Didn't we get a marvelous rest out of that?

We just commanded the whole thing, right?

Gee, we ought to do it again.

Like after I made my speech, John, November the 3rd, 1969, I never made it when I heard somebody come and say, can you make another speech?

I said, what in the hell are you talking about?

You could only have that once.

It's done.

There is a time when you can take a subject like this and crack wage price freeze and peep out those damn borders and just stand up for the dollar and so forth and so on.

And the next time, why?

Unless they are convinced.

Well, I don't know.

I'm not convinced.

But let's not assume that the president can blow up demand too often.

If he goes up to that too often, ah, he had to cover this up even once.

Had to cover it again with the Congress, that person.

So now we go on and say, now, so we work along for 20 to 25 minutes, about phase two, and then we have a price board, and under that we've got a wage board, we've got maybe a interest board, we've got a, we're going to shoot for this, and there will be this kind of value in the rest of it.

Well, that guy sits out there eating his pretzels.

Right.

Why don't they put on Lucy?

No one's going to do that.

Well, that's the other side of the side.

And the problem at noon is that you're going to hit her up as the world turns.

But, uh, well, it's a good thing.

That's good.

But, uh, I don't think it's going to be a great argument.

I'm trying to...

But we don't agree with you.

I took that position yesterday, trying to get out some expression from the council.

And then I appeal to the council.

I was thinking this, that the morning presentation of this is very important, far more so than the other one, where basically we had a breeze, and we had to tell everybody that I'm supportive.

But here, this is terribly complicated.

And I just, so I won't run out of time, so it'll be 10 o'clock.

I understand.

That's what we have to go for.

That 7 o'clock in the West Coast, you're going to go prime time, you're going to want to hit the West Coast at 6.30, you're going to want to hit them at 7, 10 o'clock.

So then at 10 o'clock, so you're getting these drunken newsmen at 10.30 to start briefing them on this goddamn thing.

It worked, it worked what you did at the other time, but you ought to remember we had a very simple case to present at the other time.

10% surcharge, wage price freeze, all this is temporary.

There's one other point that was made yesterday that if you do it during daytime, you're doing it while the market is open.

Sure.

This was felt to have some significance.

I don't personally react to the market yet.

You don't when it's open.

So you don't when it's closed.

The market is always open, actually.

So it's going to affect the next day.

Like you do on Sunday, you're going to affect the market in a very different way.

You just have to take a chunk down.

This doesn't happen very often, I guess, for the market.

Well, there was always something to be done about it.

But even that didn't happen.

And then we went up to $35,000 for the rest of it.

That's a large, simple chunk of history for the market at that point.

Yeah, it's not bad.

Oh, it's $895,000.

That's what I meant.

When I went and launched it, I had, in terms of the law, I was steady power.

if you've not gotten to listen to him.

First, it seems to me this is, as you have said in many of the meetings, a rather different thing than a freeze in the hospital.

Because in the freeze, the essence of it was surprise.

Whereas with this, in a sense, the essence of it is non-surprise.

That is, that a lot of people have been consulted

And what we have here is something that is a good program, but which has a lot of support.

And therefore, it seems to me we should use the time between now and whenever you need it.

assault with people rather frequently.

Right.

So let them talk.

And let it leak.

And it'll leak.

And let it leak, but if we don't worry about leaking, put it in a few people's hands so that some writers would get it straight and not leak like that.

Right.

That would help, but there would be that.

I suppose that would argue that if all that were done, we could do it in one time, just because there isn't sort of a drama.

On the other hand, I do think that it's striking how, in a sense, from our standpoint, we thought the category of convertibility into gold was the big thing from Camp Davis Beach.

And the wage price freeze just knocked it right out of the box in terms of what hit the public.

And it has been a big, big difference in this.

And people are, at least like, they may not focus on phase two or know what phases are and all this lingo that we use.

But they sure are aware of the fact that there's a new program.

And there's something that's going to follow this breeze and what isn't.

And so there is that interest.

And the point that is made many times by people, and the reason why the labor leaders have come around to the extent that they have, is that the member is supportive, and the member's wife is supportive.

And so somehow we've gotten to those people, and they're the ones that you have to reach again

So I think that the idea that by prime time you've got the members, you've got the way you're talking over them, you're not going to filter through the press as a witness.

It's not going to help the play on the news socials, as you know.

And a lot of it will be just straight out stuff.

But in the prime time, then you're 60 stars back here.

You think that feels good?

Well, I think the President talked to the people, and not so much in the context of the big surprise became thing, or the 2015, a rather different tone.

I want to talk to you today about how we go to phase two.

I'll have to explain the word phase means.

Well, I think that the special characteristics of the programs is not that we're allowed to underestimate.

We never underestimate their judgment, but in order to listen to what they really know.

Not that we're allowed to say a program or a bureaucratic program that you were just denouncing.

You're going to do the essential thing is the requirement of cooperation.

We can't have a voluntary restraint.

And I can tell you about some ordinary things.

where they had to be on a high authority, and I would say, well, the one way to do it, it would require a totally different kind of attention.

Of course, you could do it for a great reason.

Attendance.

And the main thing would be to say that they're special interests.

But this will work only if we have the support of the American people.

And I ask for your support in fighting Bush.

Why?

You know, and not explain a hell of a lot.

Have all the explanations done by the John and the rest, and try not to get it.

And water down the booze a little so that the goddamn press won't be so drunk they can't carry that.

Well, I'm trying to read the press off.

Oh, you can put it all up in writing.

You can do it all at once.

In fact, you can have the press briefings if you wanted to, just being able to have your journal.

First, if you go prime time, let me think of it.

Let me just sort of get our ducks in a row here.

Do that prime time.

Can you make sure labor consultation is over by Thursday?

No, I think, yes, I think that we probably can have a pledge of labor support and even the people named to the pay commission by Thursday.

By Thursday.

By Thursday, so.

Is Thursday the best or would Sunday be better?

I can't do a Friday.

I've got a big West Virginia and I couldn't get back.

Saturday is, I don't think, a good night to do it.

Sunday night.

I could do it.

I ought to do it on Sunday again if we can help it.

I don't like Sunday Thursday.

It's better if we can do it.

Or, or it's better if we can set up a Monday.

How about Monday?

It's a good holiday.

If it's Monday, it's a holiday, it's going to be a bad holiday.

Yeah, I'll tell you in time.

Right.

I still think that it's better.

All right, by Thursday.

All right.

I'm only going to erase you.

You're going to kill her.

I think we can.

We clearly passed and had a discussion with me this morning about that.

And maybe it's the, I forget the real, it's about his studies.

Yeah, he's right here.

And it's true.

Bob, you give your arguments, and that's the right kind of thing.

I don't know.

I'll give you your opinion.

Well, I think that's a really important point, the evolved ground, and I'm excited to see how it can be tested.

I think that is a tremendous way, and I'm pleased to take the circumstances out of it.

I personally think he could get a larger audience tonight.

If we can do it, if we need to do it, the dream that they've got, how mechanically they can stand more grief in the Congress, the press, all the rest of it, then that tends to offset the increase of it.

You were on the street in the afternoon, Mark, and you said that you addressed some people in their ear that you were talking to, but that may not have been advanced.

Yeah, but I don't think that was...

I can't do the best.

I think if we, we go in on the consultation, and all of us lie that we don't want it to be a surprise, or we don't want it to sound like that, then we have to accept the fact that it's not a leak that needs to be covered.

Well, I think the way, the way of us, I think the best way is to have a reason to spend some time on this is that we, I like to decide which, which side to push my, uh, preparation.

We need to go ahead Thursday night or Friday night.

These are the two possible ways.

Now, if you want to put a Friday night on the proposition, what you would do with that is to do breathing.

I wouldn't do it Thursday night.

I wouldn't have him killed the day before, but I would do it all Friday morning.

And of course, you've got Friday afternoon, and by the time you get through,

pretty well dominate the news shows that night.

They'd have at least half of them be on the news shows.

And it would carry over.

It would be, it would dominate the news magazines.

It will dominate the news shows.

It will dominate the Sunday papers.

This is my friend.

That was true also Thursday night.

It's a very weird way to do it.

The way you would do it would be to announce it today.

Announce it today, so as to build the audience.

You'd announce it today, you'd say, right, let's do one of that.

And then we're going to announce these two on Friday, or tomorrow.

Just today, Tuesday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Tuesday, that doesn't matter.

But we announce it tomorrow, Tuesday, Friday.

Well, you want to build about that thing up so you could even do it.

No, we don't want to do it today.

It's not the day.

It's the day.

It would be my job today.

But you could announce it tomorrow morning.

That would give you an enormous buildup so that you would have a much larger daytime audience.

Now that is a hell of a big audience.

I must have met 10, 12 million people, right?

Added to 25, 30 men at night, except the type of all the at night, it'll all be under the instant commentary.

You don't have the same effect of the president coming off, making this pitch.

They'll all come on after you take their commentary at night even.

That's another thing.

You give them a chance.

You have to realize, whatever I do, at night, they probably wouldn't come on at night.

Well, because they're like, at this time of the week, they go back to them.

That ain't their money.

That's right.

Well, I must say that I'm not, I felt, I sort of felt empty.

There was not a plus in the first one to do.

We ought to, we have to realize that despite the fact that all of us are terribly interested in this, our friends are in the business community, the Congress and all the rest, don't get the impression out there in the country, but it's a panic.

When is the President going to announce page two?

They aren't.

Better be.

He told me about Lou Harris, who could be here for whatever it's worth.

He just told the economic thing.

He said the main thing about phase two is to announce it in a very orderly, low-key way.

He said people must not have the feeling that it's a sort of crisis and so forth and so on.

There's something that he said for, he didn't pull the prime minister, he just said he felt that right now the people were ready for a little calming effect.

Now that's another thing that's very wrong.

Excuse me.

Well, I just, they may not be familiar with Phase II, but I suppose you're not interested in what... Oh, they're totally interested in what your principles are.

That's right.

What your principles are.

They're very conscious of it.

They're very much afraid of it.

Oh, we're still up to 55%.

That's an enormous thing.

But in very general terms.

Maybe what we can do if you feel that, maybe we could go into prime time.

Basically, more poetry than prose.

That's what you really have to do.

This is how you believe, or you can, you know, but try to educate the people.

No, it's not, it cannot be done.

All you have to do is get started and say, look, we've got a new program.

It follows through.

Its goal is to reduce the price.

I'm not reducing it.

Stop rising the cost of living.

We need your support to get the hell off.

Well, maybe there's a thing that's been handed out, at least, that's been handed out in Vegas.

so that the program is known that evening and that you get up and say, we've announced this program on the web.

And it's supposed to be support.

So if you're not expected to know about it that way, that's that at the time.

By the time we did that, it would be gnarly good if we had the media with us.

But the media will tear it to pieces before you go on.

Now, we got ahead the first time ourselves.

We must not let it.

But you still released the details.

You did it Thursday night.

You released the details before you went off the air.

Yeah.

So they've got the whole thing in the Monday and the Friday morning thing.

Yeah, right.

Now, I would do the briefing like we do on, like we did on November 3rd and other speeches, have John come out of charge and heard and all the rest.

We'd go at about 7 o'clock.

You'd go in and you'd do the television people separately.

the instant commentators who do the nature of these people.

And I can go over here to the East Room, like we do at East Room, read, or read, and a number of them read on this program, and I can come on at 9, 9 o'clock.

The real question that you've got to consider on waiting, primetime versus daytime, is the content and tone of what you're going to say, and really nothing else.

If you're going to try to give a...

Explaining for 20 minutes, for 20 minutes, that's pretty long.

Explaining of how phase two is going to work and the specifics and all that, then I think you're in a real disaster at nighttime.

If you do as you said, it's a 10-minute thing.

If it can be done, and if there's any purpose to it, something at a maximum of 10 minutes where you simply

In a very broad way, say, phase two is going to involve a continuation of such a thing, and we have to have cooperation and hit the special interests a little bit.

The way I would see the speech would be quite, not in substance, but the approach would be quite different from the way it would normally come out.

It would be very simple.

I would start by saying, 45 days ago, two months ago, we announced, I want to express appreciation to the American people for their support of us.

It has been enormously successful.

And you are seeing it in the back of them.

We have stopped or slowed the rate.

It would only have succeeded, however, despite the fact that we had the government sanctions because of the support of the American people.

Now, this phrase expires on so-and-so.

It will be followed.

It is to be followed by us tonight.

And because of the success of this, it will be followed by a program in which we will continue to have wage and pricing experiments.

I have been promising cooperation with Liberators and cooperation with this and that.

Another thing, and its purpose is to bring inflation down to 2 or 3 percent by the end of the year.

In order for this to work,

We're going to have government sanctions.

We're going to have this and that and the other thing.

But in order for it to work, we need the cooperation of the American people.

I ask for your support.

Goodbye.

And no more, I'm not saying on page two, oh I admit, the fact that they're gonna have, I truly admit, okay, we'll have a payout, we'll have a pay for it, it will be legal with salaries, we'll have a price for it, it will be legal with all profits, interest, et cetera, et cetera.

We're getting out of this.

So you have the feeling that Rick Reed is involved in this.

Look, we are going to beat this damn thing.

But it ought to do it.

We're going to do this.

We've got a great program.

But it will only work now with your cooperation, or otherwise Special Electric's selfish love, Special Electric's will turn people

And the purpose of your broadcast is not to tell people what it is to, and not at all.

It's to give people, to tell them that there is a program, that it will work, providing them what will happen.

And the team that you are, they come in, you understand, you're doing something, you know what it is and why.

Because that's not what you do.

I'll do it that way.

On that part, this is what we're doing at nighttime.

Because if you go on a hymn and only get 10 million people, you will not get the presidential conviction.

That's right.

The cross that you will get by talking to them.

You're on a hymn.

You have one advantage at night.

Having argued to the noon, it was like, I'm really open-minded on it.

One advantage at night that you have is that you can go on and pursue to make the final.

That your wage, prize freeze, has succeeded.

Mm-hmm.

It has succeeded because of cooperation.

We might even throw a gimmick in there about the fact that our program with regard to abroad is succeeding, too.

We're going to make great progress.

We're going to do.

We're going to make progress.

In other words, let me say, well, I'll do it myself.

It's got to be done right like that, just tight.

And what really spans that is the explication of how the family of Americans involved here comes to your food, your rent, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the future of your jobs, et cetera, and all this.

And we urge your support of this program.

And then I'll read about the program.

I think that's the, that would be the approach I would think about.

My answer, I would, I have only two thoughts from what I've been picked up.

I would give them a little bit of the international, in terms of the far-reaching nations there.

Because in the hearts of a number of people, and thank God for Andy Stern, that's right, and secondly, I would, I would mention the number of groups with which you confer.

And then I would emphasize how successful this program is.

I don't know if you haven't been told that there are consumer groups, and there are consumer groups that you really have solved.

You did much.

As a matter of fact, I was reading through their various articles.

As a result of all this, that's why I heard that there should be a certain concentration.

But then, the thrust of what you just said is a speech.

There's a question about that.

Well, I think we could do the prime time thing.

I don't think, under those circumstances, that you need to announce a damn thing.

Well, I think I might as well announce it in October.

But, I mean, but, Terrence, I know that the ten-minute thing probably is unrealistic.

It may not be.

But I know it can't go one second over fifteen.

Not one second.

He said, we just don't realize that that television audience is a prime listening time.

Can't say it.

Somebody up there talking about something, unless it's war or something he's terribly interested in.

I mean, we here are all interested, but the average guy, I mean, we check the military cable.

There's a guy that, Jesus Christ, he's got to work that mud off all year.

Now, I'm sure it would come along.

Now, listen, that's not a bad one.

That's a nice program, by the way.

What would you think of doing this one in the news tonight?

So it's not to get into the context of cutting into people's entertainment.

Say, ha-ha, that's not.

I would have it for another reason.

I'm not having that at the best of Goldberg's for a change.

that says through, that it all goes through the networks.

Say, oh, I'd love to do it.

And that, you will then be interested in commentary if you look very well.

You just don't know what you're going to allow the hour.

But look, you look short.

And that's the secret.

If you take it, you do it at prime time, not in the news segment, you'll have to take a 30-minute program.

Yeah.

And they all go 15 minutes a night and they tell us 15.

Oh, they don't.

They don't.

Like the Denver that has the movie.

Well, that night we'll go to their movie as soon as the press is finished.

They've got to do some commercials every night.

Yeah, the movie will.

People forget about the plot.

What are you going to tell your children about?

Well, there is a problem with cutting into it.

Only if we would get mail.

You know, I'd go on and put it back in.

Bob, what is the difference between the news audience?

We know this now.

We've built this up.

The news audience could approach it to be 30, 40 million.

But you haven't.

You've got 30 million.

30 million.

What's the rhyme on it?

It's about 15.

15.

What time are you talking?

7.

We have a baseball game on.

Yeah, please.

You know this.

The baseball game starts at 5.

That'll be 3.

That'll be 6.

That'll be over at 7.

So it's happened 30 times.

When is the news?

When is the news time?

Well, 7 is the news time.

It varies all over the country.

The feed varies, and there is no such thing as the news time.

The first feed goes at 6, and then there's a feed at 6.30 and an update at 7.

But most networks on 7th and News are they off?

It was off 7th here, you know, 7th East here.

But see that's 4 o'clock out west.

That doesn't run 6th Coast.

7th and 6th Coast go to 6th.

So 6th and Central, which is not bad.

We miss the West Coast.

That's one of the problems.

And there's another valid argument.

to the fact that you can assume, which is that you're not in a trade with the middle of the trading chain of the market, which might ease up.

I think the news time, well, let me say this.

Let's leave out the news time.

I think you're really good on it.

This is a technical problem, which we'll work on.

Believe it or not, it's news time, 7 o'clock.

We're at prime time, which is 10.

We're going to go over prime, go over 10, and I'll go over the whole audience.

That's 7 on the West Coast.

10 would be better than 9.

That whole 10 really screws the movies, that's the problem.

Yeah, the movie starts at 9, normally.

I don't know if that's this week.

Well, don't ask for a while, he's supposed to be back.

But let me ask you, how does that sound to you, John?

Is it possible to lose time?

I guess you could.

I imagine nobody's going to be, nobody's going to be concerned about today.

Well, then I just think the news is going to be better, Chuck.

The West Coast is going to be better than tonight.

Well, then it'll get legal at the West Coast.

So, if you keep it to 10 minutes, Chuck, then the West Coast newscasts will carry the entire thing when they come on at 7.

Sure.

They'll carry it by 4 and they'll carry it again at 7 as the lead to their newscasts just because you forced it into the feed.

Let's talk about the conscripted.

All right, what was that, 15?

What I'm getting at is, why not take the last part so that the screwballs can't come off?

Well, because then you have Dan Rutherford for 15 minutes explaining to people what you're going to say.

I think you're better off to say it after all, and then let Dan Rutherford try and explain it afterwards.

Yeah, what do you think?

Is the, is the news time here at seven, uh, seven?

It didn't ever sit at such a time as that.

6.30 on one, seven on the other.

So now it's 6.30.

Too much.

It's here now, I think, at 6.30 and seven.

Well, let's explore this.

We'll go over it.

You're still going to, with the news time, you'll get a health audience that will be 30 to 40, 30 to 35 million.

And I can put the bill up.

You can work with me.

You get a free thing.

You get a buddy who cares.

Everybody who cares for us.

And who wants to.

It's available.

If you do it in Denver, it's not available to my wife.

That's the problem.

It is the business end.

But everybody in the office will hear it in the office.

But it is the folks.

If you do it at 7, it's available to everyone in the Midwest and East.

It's not available in the West.

And it's all you can count on.

You need to have time, too.

Sure.

I think that's a good point.

I think it's time.

Well, we need to consider what we have to open up the question, I guess, on the extent to which we want to consult with people.

So don't say that we have the support of this and we have the support of that.

Yeah, well, I think the consultations must begin immediately.

Well, that of course puts me at a risk when I would think of a high probability of something moving out.

I'm concerned about the leaks.

But we're not over the 10 o'clock there.

We can change it.

Well, the context of our goal, you can't change it.

We can talk to people in the world and say, well, here's the sort of thing that I was thinking about.

And of course, when he decides he'll announce money, the track will be part of that announcement.

But assuming that it's this way, will you serve as chairman of this board or whatnot?

And it seems to me that, yes,

in briefings after your speech, we're able to say that a lot of the floor is somebody who's going to be the chairman and so on and so, and we've got days to go in these slots and give people the feeling that there really is a quarter of a million that hasn't been worked out and so on.

Should the briefings... Should the briefings take place before

I think it's terribly important to have this explained to people and they're really going to understand it.

Also, this is, unlike most of the things we hear, a lot of the things, this is a big, important newspaper story.

It's horrific.

Yeah, but it will matter a lot.

It will matter a lot.

then it's set up.

It's very conclusive and it's not very good at piloting.

Your, for example, your eastern newspapers have an enormous effect on decision-making.

They read it for the first time.

And so that's another point.

This is a newspaper story, not a broadcast story now.

About that time in the mid-January, even though it's primetime, region five, yeah.

You could.

In your state, basically, the safest people we've got to deal with are the press.

If you have a article in the press, they hold it.

They hear you.

The least safer are either Congress or our staff.

I'm not sure who that is.

I don't think it's Congress.

You can't tell them anything.

I think we could announce some, if we didn't announce any of the chairmen.

But if we could announce the chairmen of these two groups, it would be a great place for them to play board with anything.

I can't try to maintain any high degree of secrecy about it.

Try to not talk to people who've actually gotten their permission to serve.

Of course, if we could name the board, it would be great, but if we can't offer just a chairman, that's not fair.

In the middle of the summer, Brother Curtis, he was so critical that if you can't

I don't want to say that there's an indication of labor support, but now we're taking the people.

The message is that labor is on board.

And they're going to cooperate.

And I think that would mean more than a lot.

I think it would, too.

And they have to make all the business, the care system, all the work you can.

If you can, I would.

I guess, let me say though, I wouldn't rush so fast to name the border to get it back.

I would rather name one man and then have the rest come on, because we have to live with these people.

That's why Russia bothers me.

The problem is, labor might or might not be willing to be named until they see the whole border.

But if we can compromise for them by letting them see the public,

Now, what we will do, is this, all of you have heard of the prime time, another discussion, is this news, time, science, and possibilities?

How about you?

Why do you think it sounds better?

Well, I think it's more in the context of an orderly, kind of business-like thing.

The private time does kind of get you into the entertainment area, whereas the news is in the more business-like.

That's the worst possible time you can pick for that.

The news feed, which is a good argument you're telling me about.

Well, the reason is, Kirby, where do you want it?

The news is the most profitable operation you have.

Well, my goodness, so this is what better news do they got than this?

That's what they pretend all the time you're on.

They interrupt the commercial.

That's why we think that's because we're going to do that.

Does news time sound good to you, John?

Yes, sir.

We didn't follow this.

No, I like it.

All right.

Now, if you will do this, sir.

I've got to go back to see Mr.

Ransom.

I can do it with her now.

We will use Sapphire this time because he's working on this.

He needs to do it.

You pass along some of the links to him and see if you can get a draft by 9 o'clock tonight.

9 o'clock.

He works fast.

And I can talk to all of you about it.

We don't need to worry about leaks.

So we'll send it around to each of you.

You can take a look at it, John.

But that's enough.

But I'm not going to shuffle to the... We'll just shuffle to this group.

I'm not going to shuffle to Arthur.

I don't want to rewrite.

I mean, totally.

But I think this is enough.

What was that about to take it over?

Something that concerns him.

Because he works well with Arthur, too.

Now, do we have to do anything in terms of getting him on board?

But what the hell is getting what he wants to do?

Well, on the interest of dividends, what he says, if he says no, wrong.

Fair enough, John.

And I don't know if he is, but I guess I would have tried to persuade him and said, I'm dead.

And I put the bed on him.

I can work that way.

That's right.

Thank you.

That's very good.

Now, I wondered if you would, I know you would like to go down to the thing.

I'm going down to the Billy Briggs thing.

I'll be coming back.

I hope you don't want me to hurt you.

The whole side of the country is coming to honor the liberation of Charlottesville on a legal price.

And I go down, and the whole council, and I'm out there as the leader of over 5,000

75, and 731, we were delighted to put out a, you know, a date about grinding the, um, this right here, this right here, this right here, 15, 58, 58, 15.

I mean, don't worry.

It's the only thing that we fight for.

We just go down in the afternoon.

I mean, that would be great, because I think the chance seems, I have a business counselor in the house where he's got 20% who says, we could drop you off at the house, bring you to the way back, if you want.

So, sure, I think we would.

I talked to him on the phone yesterday.

He asked me if he thought that you would come.

I said, well, he's all busy.

I'm asking how long it took.

.

I swear to God, that car will be short, too, if we don't get two conservatives.

Yes, sir, I should.

I saw Eric Severo.

I said to the president, he's making great mistakes in not having balance for what in Christ does he mean?

It's already, I mean, all we're doing is making it five to four against a year from now.

So you can get there and lose the charge.

All we're concerned is, I mean, we've got four.

Thank you to a private steward who's doing that now, you see.

Well, I think that was their white friend, Thurgood Marshall.

and Douglas, that's four, with Potter Stewart, the sling man, and he's been with them more often than with us lately.

So I will not buy that job.

Are you agreed?

I absolutely do.

I think you make a great mistake for the country.

That's the other thing.

You're not only the type to put two friends over there, or two not friends, but two people whose philosophy occurs with your own, but the country.

My job for the next decade is going to be to start up an R&D, if I do mean that.

Yes, another thing I did, another thing I did, I did a whole handful of things.

Your old wives, you know, you took that tough line, and then they were squealing about it.

And this week, they really caught up, hit the rail, and hit the rail.

And it's right.

It's the way to deal with these people.

It's the only way to deal with them.

Now, I think, and I said this enough times, but you have to really talk to them.

Don't you have to?

I'm kidding.

And we ought to move.

I'm kidding.

But, uh, well, this guy just, uh, again, the, uh, Augustine, uh, columnists are all saying that the Star of the Union, I think, most of the Star of the Reception this morning had been correlated to, I guess, the Star of the Reception.

He just said, well, we thought it was on hold, that it would be on hold.

Well, apparently, he said that a couple of companies owe him $700 million.

Obviously, it's hard.

Obviously, he said he doesn't need to compensate for the expropriated properties going down.

And he's done with all of us, and that's our move.

Listen, and you, I have decided to, you give us a plan, and we'll carry on.

So don't worry.

This is one where I knew he would do it.

And we're going to play it very carefully.

But we've got Peru going now.

We've got some on our side.

Well, I believe he's going on our side.

I didn't think he'd get away with it, but it's a matter that Henry learned to get into.

Now, well, I'm back there, but I had decided that we were going to, you know, I just think it's awfully important.

to drive you home, because he's an enemy.

He just doesn't, he doesn't know how to work.

He's going to have to be salvaged, and the only thing you can ever hope is to have him hold his own.

And me and Abby, we will make it one.

Prove when you're actually against him what you want.

Charlie, after American interest, and this is, this is, well, John, tell me if I'm the guy you can kick.

You know, you always say, that's like somebody, that's where we can kick.

That's right.

And I didn't think we should have taken all the kicks out of him.

I didn't think we were going to take this.

the, uh, narrative of the Reckless in this country.

No, wait a minute.

We'll stop with the Reckless.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

If you're amused with him, then you're there.

Oh, thank you.

All right.

Well, that's great.

What are you talking about?

I think they're pretty well settled with this.

The news time, they saw something.

You didn't get it.

I said I didn't.

And actually, both ways, Bob.

I didn't fix it.

You're going to get into this.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks.

He says you couldn't do it during the working day, or as Marcus said.

Welcome in.

Well, this is the third launch on Climax Tower String.

Where's that?

They came towards it.

Before you said it.

Oh, hell yes.

I don't know, but I think he does.

I don't think there's any question about it.

I feel like we're going to end this.

We might as well end it.

He goes, that'll be good.

It'd be good for him to see the kind of reception he gets there.

Now, I want to, but I didn't think I want him in the car, right?

Special car, every creature.

But I'm curious.

After you find out for sure that Billy, that Billy Miller's coming, that kind of thing, I think you ought to stay over here.

You know, you're probably going to have to.

I'll tell you, one of you, uh, one of you can keep him over here, sit him over here.

Well, no, after that you can have him.

Now, sit here, sit him over here.

Okay?

Now, you can sit right over here.

$15,000.

Now, we don't need a budget.

Just see if you can come be available on our budget.

I told Bob this morning that you do your best thinking on an ice floe and that I'm looking around for a convenient ice floe for you to sit in.

They don't try to go into China.

They will say, what a great statement.

I mean, they were just laughing it up.

Oh.

Scully, give me, give me, uh, can I get it with, uh, with Scully there?

Uh, Ziegler would be the best.

And I've been, I've got the, my phone is clogged with newsmen who are calling in.

Oh, no, no, I'm not taking it.

I'm not taking any calls.

I'm still doing it.

Well, I thought you'd go on Thursday.

At 2 p.m., 2 p.m. is phase two.

Oh, good.

Rather than noon.

In other words, that's all the top time.

Thursday is the time.

That's right.

Oh, he's doing it.

That's right.

Go ahead.

He can give you the fourth, but, you know, they've... Before we get into that, another subject I'm talking about...

I just think, according to Conley, it's really screwing us now.

That's right.

All right.

I approve the comments already.

He gave us the plan when I came in, and I want to make something out of it.

That's my view.

I talked to Conley, and I talked about it yesterday.

I would go to a confrontation with him the quicker the better.

Maybe not in a brutal way, but in a clear way.

Yeah.

All right.

Will you work with the company?

Absolutely.

Now, is there any... We may have to butter up the Peruvians in order.

I think we ought to make a distinction between the Peruvians who have nationalized... That's right.

...but we at least... Libyan and Peru.

I forgot to tell you that last night, but...

And when I told Bill about that bench trip, I said, you know, at some time,

uh, before the election, I have got to find a way to meet with the Latin American chiefs of state.

I, you know, we've talked about this, and I don't know what they're going to come up with, but sometime you're, you know, you get past some of these other things.

I don't want to do it now, but immediately in some safe place in Latin America.

Maybe Mexico.

Where the hell did you have it in Mexico?

Mexico City.

Oh, they should be working to have it without a riot.

That's the point.

Uh,

Mexico.

That's right.

And Echevarria has been a good friend of yours.

Well, you talked to Grayson, as I said, with Bill about Winchester.

He hasn't been down there either.

No, I think it'd be a good thing to do because we're getting some minor criticism.

I'm sorry.

Let it be handled.

Let it be handled and stated.

What I meant is we've got some trouble.

I wanted you to know that I mentioned to Bill so that he can work on it and you can do that very early.

The preparation, I don't want to handle it, but we have to make sure that this stand, Bleeding Hard Arts, doesn't handle the actual agenda.

The agenda?

Oh.

Just setting it up and so forth.

Oh, don't worry.

I meant to just

I don't think it had anything to do with Mexico and the environment and so forth.

Don't worry.

Well, go ahead on the China thing.

How did it strike you?

Did it surprise you?

No, I haven't seen the day.

No.

Not at all.

That was another long laundry.

It was there.

It was the usual ones.

No, no.

We moved at about 9 o'clock.

I didn't breathe this morning at 10 o'clock.

Was it a friendly crowd?

Yes sir, a good crowd.

Most of the writers were just a few letters.

So how did Tommy Hogg came about?

Well, I began by reading a statement of mine.

Oh, you read the statement?

Yes sir.

Did you let them televise that?

No, I read it later for the camera.

Right, that's good.

And then you read the statement.

What did you do?

You just come in, gentlemen, I agree with you.

I said, well, they didn't know he was coming out.

You made a very dramatic production out of it.

Yes, it was.

I love to do that because it's the People's Republic of China.

And the government of the United States of America.

Have a great day.

Dr. Kissinger will go to China the latter part of October in order to make concrete arrangements for the President's visit to the UK.

And I said, Dr. Gillespie, it's good to amplify that statement and to take your questions.

And the questions went very well, because they all wanted to knock down the wall and file that bulletin.

So Henry was there for about, what, five minutes?

No more than five minutes.

Exactly.

About six minutes, something like that.

They wanted to get off the floor.

And somebody outlined the fact of who he was taking and the purpose of it.

And I think it went very smoothly.

Well, most of them were technical, but they also asked me about internal developments, and I had prepared, I made it extemporaneously, a rather long answer, saying, one, that we have no information, no direct information.

Two, that we don't presume, just because we're going to the People's Republic of China, to take a position as a government.

on their internal developments.

I think we have to say that so that they don't think we are... Any more than they might have stated...

I said that, any more than we would welcome it if they took a position on our domestic situation.

Three, the preparations have gone forward with great care and meticulousness on their side.

Four, we think they are serious and that they would not reverse this policy easily.

If they did, it's time enough to face it then.

And we hope the situation won't arise, as the Secretary of State said over the weekend.

I wrapped it up in that thing.

And finally, we are very serious about our approach.

Did they ask you about a pilot?

No, not much question.

I didn't get a question on it in my...

And in these new group moves, phone calls, I've had... First, before you talk about phone calls, how did they react to the rocker?

Oh, yes, sir.

Just the way I said it, they were, you know, it was one of the edge of the sea, which always happens.

And then with all the major groups, they go charging.

Of course.

Do they recharge?

Oh, yes, sir.

They want it.

They had to on this, because there was a nonstop invasion in China, so China beat them.

And boy, they were leaking.

Well, they didn't move.

Okay, but they... China was on the wire.

China just moved it right at 10 o'clock.

China moved it 10 o'clock.

Word for word, the same thing.

But they didn't shoot the announcement.

No, but... That's right.

Where they had the wagon in their hands.

Because you see, I was reading a news summary this morning, and these parts were talking about the fact that there must be something going on and this and that.

Well, maybe it wouldn't affect our trip, however, but you know, they were all really speculating.

Well, as I hold it, undercutting these speculations.

This announcement today undercut all of that.

Even the whole person did.

Well, also, I have set up 300 occasions around.

I've set up in Detroit, and I've set up in Oregon, and I've set up another occasion over here.

Didn't you think, Ron, I've done so much reading now, that the mood was really one of, I could have said anything, babe.

Very pleasant.

And they've been calling in every time.

Well, you know, Frankel, I don't take calls from the New York Times.

So Frankel called up and I wouldn't take his call, so he left a message with my secretary saying, just say congratulations, they've done it again.

And the New York Times just hopes, even if it's the last member on the trip, that it gets to go.

Thank you.

Did the question come up with Preston here, sir?

Yeah.

He asked about that.

It must be loose, though.

He's not going to take any.

Oh, no, he's not taking any from his.

I'm impressed.

Just they only made it past that.

But I've got a lot of requests already for that GPS called.

I don't want it.

I know you don't.

This is the thing to do because we haven't set up something here.

Oh, God, yes.

It'll get a hell of a life.

Mr. President, my getting a place is not the problem.

Oh, I know, but we want you here getting a place.

You'll get more of a place.

We want you to get a place.

That's my point.

You'll get a hell of a big place.

But you don't think the president...

I don't want any president... You don't like this goddamn thing?

Well, we've dominated the news for quite a bit.

That's mystery business again.

Because if I have them in...

If I have them with me...

They've got a brief.

I've got a brief that they'll watch where I go from here.

Well, basically, they don't expect to go with you because they're in business going...

Also, they don't want to press on this, and I don't think they will press, because they want to save all their marbles for the, you know, your trip.

Cradlow called and said that the editorial board has done a coup.

Of course, he also said, could he come along?

I said, no.

But again, when I talked to them out there a few weeks ago and I said that we were moving in a steady phase, that we knew exactly what we were talking about, Osborne called and he said what he really admires is the steady, deliberate, imaginative way in which we are conducting it.

He's a good bellwether, doesn't he?

Mike Wallace called from New York and said, we've laid them on their ears again.

He did?

Yeah.

I don't know why they didn't.

Because they all calculated it was going to drop down.

Mike Mansfield, when I called him this morning, he said... Oh, God, Mike Mansfield.

Just tell the President for me.

I told Mike on the plane.

I didn't tell him.

I said, Mike, I just want you to know Mao is alive.

And the plans are going ahead.

You'll hear next week.

Well, he said my most heartfelt congratulations.

And I have to tell you honestly, I thought things were going badly on China.

I'm so relieved.

I'm not sure that...

And even Fulbright said, he said, you give me nothing but good news except for Vietnam.

I'm so sick of Vietnam.

He said, if you could only get that wound up.

Tell him he gives us nothing but bad news on everything.

I know.

Who do you give that to?

I call... You call Brooke?

Brooke.

Oh, he was elated.

He said he was going to make a speech today against...

the danger of our improving the accuracy of our missiles, but he thinks it would be a bad occasion to say the slightest thing that could be critical of the administration.

I called Albert.

Warm congratulations.

Another great stroke.

They treated it not quite as an, it isn't as much of a bombshell, of course, as the July 15th, but they treated it as a very significant bomb.

The other thing, too, is that there was not one question, well, they made a brief pass in one question on responsibility.

the South Vietnamese election today.

That is all.

And there's no follow-up to that.

They did not press on that.

But they did not press on that even yesterday in Florida.

Well, I think Hanoi must be ready to climb walls.

Because Peking, even if it has never said a word to them, which I don't believe,

has screwed them now twice.

First, they killed their seven boys with a July 15th announcement.

Now, whatever momentum they could get out of the election is killed again.

They couldn't have gotten much anyway, but no one can possibly talk about the election for a week or so.

And by that time, the trip will be starting and other things, so it's... You didn't give the exact dates yet.

No, we'll announce that next week.

Right.

Around the 14th.

You have enough space for all the people.

You just said the last part, the latter part of October.

Another peep, a cherry poet,

More congratulations to the President.

Tremendous news.

It's new news.

It really is.

Well, it's not for us, but for them.

Of course, it is new news to them, because the thought has never been raised in any of the speculation that there would be a return kiss at your visit before the President's visit.

I think these guys were hoping that this thing wasn't... Plus, what this does is, as the President said earlier, it gives credibility to the statement.

When we're ready to discuss it with him, we'll do that.

I'll be taking it to the appropriate time.

And when the President says...

I've said it three times.

Once in the office, once at work, and once in the office.

And when the President says, I know it's going forward, he isn't just shooting flags.

And then the Chinese coming out on the dot with word for word the same thing.

Precisely, not a one deviation from the word.

They really have been.

In fact, when I read it, I told them I wanted to read it over.

This is from the canvas.

I looked up and I said, the President's trip to China.

I said, let me read that over because it's a great statement.

It's the President's message.

I mean, so I

I don't know.

I can't tell you.

I think it will be a big story.

Big story?

Sure.

I knew it was going to be a big story.

I feel that state a little bit.

I mentioned a man that is going with me.

Who is going?

He's all right.

He's a desk officer.

I've got him working on the second.

He's going to handle cultural exchange.

That's great.

The trade.

The ping-pong, ballet.

It's supposed to start fun to do it this way, don't you think?

Would you like it?

We've really done quite a few now.

We've had this all done.

It's July 15th, August 15th.

There's much more we've got.

I can assure you.

Well, it's not a surprise.

No, it's not a surprise.

Oh, it's a surprise this week.

Oh, yes.

They're restricting it.

Well before the 30 days.

Well before 30 days.

Well, it doesn't make it a surprise if not, it's an important story.

And if not, we will dominate the rest of this week.

Absolutely.

You've got the magazines locked up for next week.

Absolutely.

still this week.

That's right.

You know, because of the big news last night.

Well, but there's a, the other thing that's untapped hardly is after the president receives a report from the board of inquiry, actually deciding to move from the intelligence will be a big story again.

Sorry.

You know, he had to lose people he called.

He had to be a point called very warmly.

Is he?

Oh, yeah.

They're all sucking our asses when we get on the trip.

That's all right.

It's great, sure.

It's something you're hanging on to.

It's something you're hanging on to their head.

No, to a certain extent, you've got to realize that at the time, this thing will be true probably in what we do next week.

These people are all unshot and pessimistic.

Idealistic.

Yeah.

But just think, there is no danger of communism.

If McCarthyism was overplayed, et cetera, et cetera, and that the world now is, now we're finally recognized in the real world, and we're all going to lie down in the manger together, she can laugh.

That's really what it is.

And so what they call, they really call it, because on this one, they really...

They're really for us, strangely enough.

Well, and we've had them off balance now.

They just don't know what's going on anymore.

You think so?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, the whole mythology of their attack on the presidency was that they're a bunch of bumbling idiots who lie, cheat, and don't know what they're doing.

Well, they can't say we don't know what we're doing because we've kept it coming.

We've always been a step ahead of them.

Early in this fight, you know, always a major problem we have is the credibility gap.

Bullshit.

No credibility gap.

I think they're beginning to have the credibility gap.

Yeah, they've raised all these questions, right?

What the hell are we not credible about?

Well, there's no...

I think, at least, it's becoming very apparent, has been, that what you say you're going to do, you do, which in great extent cuts through the type of credibility gap which existed under Lyndon Johnson's administration.

They now are not equating that same question with this administration at all.

And we're pushing Vietnam to the rear pages of the papers.

What the hell can they do about it now?

Because that's a good point about Vietnam.

How noise has creamed in its attack on this Cambodian border.

They've just broken off and withdrawn.

And next week we'll have something.

And then your trip will follow the next week.

And that'll, even when you're there, there'll be big news on Xero.

And there'll be something to leak out.

Now, they are, I'm sure they're going to run a mock-up in Ottawa, trying to get into China.

To cover you.

Well, sure.

To cover me.

But we just have to rely on the Chinese.

I mean, we can't.

That's not our problem.

But the Chinese won't.

Well, if they do, if they do, that's...

But they have...

They do.

That's not our problem.

We just...

We've planned just our own way.

You just make your own trip.

I think it seems to not be very good to have Albert Nancy fly the plane down, too.

Is he flying down?

Albert basically gives him a chance to make the trial.

That's what he wants.

We haven't announced that yet.

That would be a very good thing to announce in the President's personal pilot.

We'll fly it again.

Those are the little things I've mentioned to John.

That's our argument.

That's the real nothing.

Don't you dare call him.

Because they were asking me today, and I said, but it's not determined yet.

Well, you can be an outstaff.

I'll tell you, the level of interest is just incredible.

I'll stack them up, but I bet you that before this is over, I'll have a memo on my desk from every member of the White House staff, giving all the reasons why you should go on the challenge trip with the President.

It's a thing where, you know, there's just... Well, thank God we've got the second trip.

Yeah, possibly.

Because the second part, which you can't, well, you can't take everybody anywhere with you.

But don't overcommit on that.

This is going to have room for them.

That's the point.

Logistically, it's going to be just as hard to deal with them.

You know, the best way is to go with the real thing.

Well, there's no reason for members of the White House to have to go.

There isn't.

That's our job then, right?

Absolutely.

And we've been found.

If you have a working unit, every time you have even a canned junk, you know, that's it.

You know, you get the national chairman out of the campaign, and it's the same thing.

It's the same route.

Well, that it's the fact that you're going lean, that you're going working, and that you're a matter of fact.

And that they don't get to talk to anybody.

I tell you, you ought to realize that both of these trips, when they do come off,

are going to be, well, for all of us, but particularly for me, enormous exertion.

Because I have to go, I have to read, I have to be in good condition.

I must not have to talk to anyone.

Not for a week before.

We've got to be up there and really top form, right?

Oh, God.

And you're going to be the only one who can do it.

And you won't have, there won't be anyone

with you who can really conduct the negotiations.

I have to do it.

If you take a bunch of people along, you create nothing but problems for yourself and your operation.

I agree.

It's going to be hard to hang on.

Because if it goes like the Gromyko visit, I mean, that was spectacular.

I just read over the memorandum, and that was really great.

But it takes a tremendous amount of concentration, and that's the only one I have to do.

You've got to read all the books, the backgrounds, and so forth.

You have brought State into the deal by trying to prepare papers for me and all this, right?

Oh, yeah.

They're working away.

Don't give the papers.

No, no, they're working away like crazy.

Fine, fine, fine.

But you take the papers, and I can call in, because what we might get down to in this book should be one that

It should be on a need-no basis.

Well, what I, the way I'm setting it up is you can all anticipate what the conversation will be.

The first conversation will be.

The second one, I'm not so sure.

Well, the second one, actually... You think you can have it all over?

Well, if that one negotiation goes on, I was telling Bob this morning we could pull off a real spectacular in the second one.

And... Yeah, all right.

That's, uh... Just the trip is real spectacular.

Well, but we've got to... No, but it's very important to have something.

No, Vince has won the Spanish trip.

He's not to give the trade away at this point, you know.

No, I don't think he should have any right to make a decision.

No, he should have made recommendations, and he should have said the damn thing, so don't have him give away the damn thing.

But the way I've got to think is... We've got something to come out of that second trip.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I traded one of them.

But if we can play it cool now for a few months, I think we can.

We've got to get these two things working into each other and blackmail one way or the other.

And keep dangling the carrot.

And also with the Japanese in the wings.

With the Japs in the wing, with the Middle East dangling as a carrot.

I think we've got this thing going now in a way that, and everything builds on everything else.

But the way I'm going to do it in Peking, as I told you, I will talk with one staff member of my staff to show and lie about the big issues.

I'll have the state fellow and another fellow from my staff discuss all the peripheral issues, cultural exchange, trade, economic.

And then I'll have the champion group discuss the technical side.

So we have three things going on.

And the whole group

Well, the technical people, except for Chapin, never have to meet Zhou Enlai.

They should never... Well, Chapin should meet him, but I don't have any of the others.

No, no, Chapin will.

But we'll just have an opening session where I'll let Zhou Enlai make his speeches for the record in the closing session, and all the rest we'll do in these private meetings.

And this could be a trial run also for how we conduct your trip.

That's right.

Then Rogers can handle when we are in Peking.

The stuff gets manhandled.

when I was there, so we can get these agendas written out.

And we're doing a draft communique before we go, so that we... On your trip?

No, for your trip.

So that we get that agreed on.

We don't want...

I don't think it's good for you to be in Peking without knowing what's going to emerge.

With these guys hanging... What is the situation, too, with regard to the problem I raised with you the other night?

As to what do you announce when you complete your thing?

About when do you announce the date of my trip?

Of course, it depends a little bit on the Chinese.

Yeah, I know.

All right.

Let's suppose, what do we want then to do?

I am beginning to think we should wait till after the boat.

And do it several weeks after the boat.

Really?

Well, Henry, if you come back, the pressure will be unbelievably great.

But when is the date for the President's trip?

I'd rather get him the hell out of my way.

Let's do it the way we did it on my last trip.

Just give me a date.

I think you should do it, but we know the date.

No, no, I know the date.

I mean, give me a date by which you want it announced.

I want it announced actually within, but if you get back, I think you get back, we should announce the date immediately.

They need four.

They need, in my experience, they need about a week.

Because of the way they... Well, if the date of the announcement goes too late, then you go too close to the vote.

And that's my worry.

If they take a week, then you're right on the vote.

And why don't you agree on the date of the meeting?

At the beginning, start the four-day process.

All right.

Well, see what you've seen.

What's possible.

See what's feasible.

What I have to get from Bob...

is three or four dates with whichever you prefer.

It's bad to show anxiety with them.

If we get around to a date early, I'll clinch it early.

But my instinct is that they will leave that till the last session.

And therefore, I think the earliest we could get it is for the 27th.

Because I won't be back till the 25th.

My son wouldn't be back.

You see the problem?

If you put it off too late, they'll say, they'll think something's gone wrong.

You have to give me the time of day that you wanted.

You don't have to give me the time of day.

The other thing, too, let's see if we could have posted on the day.

Yes, you could.

You could just say we're going to announce the day on the blind and blind.

Or within three weeks.

We could say that just a few minor things need to be straightened out.

We could say...

I'll tell you another way you can do it.

Rather than trying to rush it too close to the boat, under credit to China, we could just say that...

that they will be announced on a certain date.

In other words, agreed to an announcement given three or four weeks.

Well, actually, it creates the impression, too, that it would be positive from our standpoint because you return discussion and conversation.

In other words, we can...

The decision would really come here.

I think if I'm any judge of them, and I'm really thinking out loud, Mr. President, they will not agree to say we will announce it, say, on November 15th.

But I'm sure they will agree that we say they'll announce it about three weeks from now, that it's essentially settled.

We have just to smooth out a few more details, which would be a very positive story.

That is easy.

That I'm sure is easy.

And that's actually, that gives us more measures.

And it puts it less on me, you know, more on...

On that you... Anthony, you have to announce it to me naturally.

You have to open that.

But that's a two-week story, and then nature will take its course again.

Step first and... Oh, yeah.

Get back to yourself, Donald.

How do I...

I think you...

I think this is... Oh, this is wonderful.

It was just a crazy truck that moved up to the edge of the sea and then... Oh, you get it.

That's great.

I tell you, that Soviet summit is just... That's going to be a big announcement.

Because no one even dreams of that.

They're all focused on that.

Does Ziegler know about this?

I better tell him to shut up.

I wish he did.

That's a good one.

I'll talk to him.

He doesn't leave.

He never leaves, but he tiptoes around to find out what's going on.

But that actually, Mr. President, I think is going to be nearly as big a bomb, Phil.

And then everyone is going to feed back to the fifth and say, aha, these clever bastards, they're meshing it all together.

Well, Dobrynin said yesterday, I don't know, I just, I called him in, we started talking, he said, I know, Henry, you believe, you won't quite believe this, but I want to tell you, the foreign minister thought that his consultations with the president and later with you were the two most important, he said, in his tenure, the greatest progress in

Soviet-American relations, and on and on and on.

So we talked a bit, and then I said, well, I'll call you in to let you see this announcement.

You're the first person we show it to.

And if you have any questions about it, I answered.

He read it.

He said, Henry, I have to tell you something.

This is diplomacy in the grand style, and this is what Kennedy always wanted to do and never could manage.

Perhaps

And, you know, when the Soviet ambassador tells you this is diplomacy of the Grand Side... Oh, God.

And then he immediately came back to the Middle East.

He said, when are you ready to talk about the Middle East?

End of next week for a very exploratory conversation.

And...

It's, uh, I think, I think that's, that your announcement next week is really, don't you, Bob?

It's kind of locked in debt, so I hope.

Well, there are some things, sir, that bother us.

It's not an issue, it's really good.

Then on the 14th, we announce the details of the business.

Then on the 17th, uh, Then you go, so.

Then I go.

and of course I still have a finite hope that by December 1st we'll break Vietnam I don't know where the hell they're going to go Mr. President the election didn't stampede us no one will give you credit yet but what you did on September 16th was to save Vietnam

when you came out for two in that office press conference.

If you hadn't done that, the panic would have been off.

That's what hate brought back from out there, but this in turn feeds back on the Vietnamese.

So I think we are...

I had, for Thursday evening, I was going to go up to New York to have

Dinner with Riyadh.

I got David Rockefeller to invite us both, so we're meeting.

I want to get a feel for what the Arabs want, so that if we do get it, we can go here.

So, I mean, it won't be here when you make that speech.

But I think it's...

Okay?

Right.

You'll take care of it.

Yeah, I've done it.

And he said, well, here's the thing.

You get to speak to him.

Yeah, I've got all the things, but I don't want to give him a sense of anticipation.

But for that reason, I'll listen and take notes.

Better have it done.

He wants to read the graph.

Right.

Well, I can handle it.

Ten minutes, perhaps.

Actually, I agree with him this time.

Ten minutes is what it should be.

He's kind of at the end of news time now, 7 o'clock, rather than noontime, which he preferred, or 9 or 10, per se, whatever you're looking for.

But we want to do a lot of work.

I'm going to sign a draft or so.

But I want to give you the details so that you'll know what we don't want to do.

The plan now is to go to news time, not to try the crime-crime thing.

We'll try to disadvantage it.

We're going to build it up and go Thursday night at news time.

The most important thing is that this must not be a speech which sums up anybody, that the average guy even knows what the word phase means, let alone phase two.

And I think that this is across the district.

They don't say everybody's waiting for the base.

They don't say, well, they're not.

They're not there waiting and harassing.

I mean, you're just reading the press, and you're in the Congress, and you're reading all that.

The average guy out there is waiting.

He isn't.

The average guy says, well, the press did something about it.

The press read this on the bottom.

You know, it got that for his ass.

We like that.

But in the present time,

They don't ever still have that cage, so the allotted that are going to be in there, they repair some of the cages.

That would be excellent as a, as a, you know, as a paper or a card.

This is the Supervisory Administration in order to do something about the cages.

I thought it was impossible for this.

This would be a very simple, approximately 1,200 to 1,500 or 1,600 maximum.

I'm speaking of 10 minutes.

To begin, I'd say that I announced on August 15th, six weeks ago, seven weeks ago, that this has been enormously successful.

It has been successful because of the cooperation and support of the American people.

I also want to make an annual note and announce that we are going to do this.

I want to report that we have, I want to report to you as to how this program has worked so far.

and all the industry in America that's had a very aging world and so forth and so on.

And we are very concerned about our neighbors abroad and so forth, the country, and changing the world and so forth and so on.

But I mean, because of progress, and I want to talk to you, but if you talk about progress we can make on this, one of the things I see very clearly

that we are going to follow up with a continued program.

In other words, it is the same program, a continued program, which Christ is returned to.

Spent a very little time saying how different it is from the other areas, according to the activity and the accolades and so forth, but not always in common senses and so forth.

But, in that sense, let's regard this as a different program.

This will be

This will be in Garves, the back of the area line.

And in order for it to work, there are certain interests, certain interests that may not cooperate, selfish interests there may be.

But the main thing is this will work by the people with their support of this.

We ask for your support.

With that support, we can happen.

We can happen to prosperity and prosperity without war.

It's also good to get something on the planet.

that this is a way for more jobs, because as we reduce inflation, or we, if we want, want to fund it, that our goal is that we touch the fund, and our goal is prosperity, and noninflation, and so forth and so on.

The one major thing we haven't, and the profits are very big, which I'm not going to get all the way out of it for political reasons, but the way I want that,

but in terms of saying that it is time in this country that we just don't assume the prices always have to continue to go up.

It's time that the American people, not just labor, not just the American business, but the American people, the consumer, get some of the break out of the increase in productivity.

By then, we have some price reductions.

There cannot be any windfall problems as a result of this.

That's what I'm going to have as a problem for.

But you'll see that the increased productivity as a result of this program is shared by the consumer.

It does have some price reductions in this category.

I'll just go back to that.

It is going to happen, but it's going to be a nice thing to go ahead with.

I'm getting all this done, too.

You're the only one around who can do it.

I mean, I can get it down to that kind of a workable thing.

That's the outline of the talk, as I see it.

Mainly, as I said, part of it is to avoid the pros.

Basically, what we really want here, and I don't mean a lot of it, but where it's about being confident,

This isn't a new program, it's just a continuation of the old.

People are reassured that things are going very well.

I announce this program.

You didn't know it was going to happen, but I have a very encouraging report.

It is a successful thing to take the international first and get it out of the way, and then the domestic thing second.

All around.

Oh, another thing about crisis.

You can point out that for American goods to be competitive with the law, it isn't enough, Senator, to accept the fact that crisis is going to continue to go on.

We've got to get crisis down.

So let us have a fight here which will bring crisis down.

I want the English thing hit particularly hard.

You know, the English race and so forth are just too goddamn high and hit some of the evil people with it.

Now, you don't need to put in the sea.

You don't need to put in, except for the barrel lines, okay, of the payboard and this and that and the other thing.

and asking the Congress to extend the bill and so forth, and maybe just put in a sentence saying that, I don't know.

Yes, you probably have to do it to accept the action.

It will be a program which will deal with these things.

It will require the cooperation of business, it will require the cooperation of black labor.

It will have government sanctions, and I am determined that if they do not cooperate, this government will have to.

That is back to the agreement on actions.

How long is it going to last?

As long as it's necessary to deal with the problem.

But it's clear to me that we will move on with it once we get our operation done.

But in addition to the cooperation thing, another thing that somebody suggested, Congress suggested just about,

Because what should go on, I don't know whether this should go on or not, but you understand either.

I have consulted with representatives of labor, with representatives of business, with representatives of agriculture, with representatives of consumers, with all the representatives of farmers and so forth and so on, with representatives of state and local government.

And it is their command, it's their belief, first, that we are doing the right thing.

And it is almost a diversionary act that we should continue

This battle, we have, we have, we have made this first step.

Not that it was continual.

Actually, we had to change it in order to take care of some inequities involved.

But it's legal, continual, and we're going to win the battle.

But coming back to the general, general thing, the reason that I want to, you know, really aim for that short end is that, and I can't emphasize too strongly,

And I know you share this, you share this, and I think you know that we're jerked out to what he's like.

We do tend, around here, on a subject like this, to think that people are just waiting with big breasts, but how is he going to come out with these two?

People are not.

I was hoping we wouldn't have to use phase two as a phrase.

As a businessman, yes.

Labor, yes.

Congress, yes.

When I looked at all this, I thought to myself, I said, no, no.

I said, phase two should be used if we're going to get around.

Phase two should not even be used.

I'm not sure the phrase should even be used.

Because I said, the average guy doesn't know what phase means.

He really doesn't.

Besides which, it wasn't your phrase at all.

That's right.

I can say we're going to have a continuing program, and it's going to be effective.

And we can look forward to the future with confidence, and also say, if we want to say that 1972 will be a very good year, we can make it the greatest year in the history of the year,

This nation, for the first time in 15 years, should end on this subject.

We should have peace where we can have prosperity and peace always at the end.

And without inflation.

Say without inflation even though it's an overstatement.

Do you want to hit the temporary nature of this by virtue of not building a new bureaucracy but using the same?

I don't think I'd go into that.

I'd just say, I don't live with a sentence.

I don't think, say, don't even use the word.

I'm not sure you want to say temporary too much.

Just say, and we are going to do this.

We're not going to do this with a big bureaucracy because we don't need any army here.

Because our army is you, the American people.

Here we are.

We do not need an army of bureaucrats.

Because we have a great citizens' army.

on the pay board and the price board uh do you want to point out that you know behind that is the cost of living council which if they don't

I think you and the rest of Tennessee first must understand that there was going to be none.

Prior to my going on the correction at 7 o'clock, whenever it is in the news time, Connolly and Schultz at all, will all have a correction, will all breathe for us a great length about the praises that have all come, all the rest, it will all be none.

See?

So, I'm not sure that people give a goddamn about the cost of living council.

Well, you can mention it, you can mention it, but you don't need to describe it.

The cost of living council may or may not go near to that.

I just simply, I wouldn't go in, I don't think you need to go into too much description.

Let's get all that stuff out, Sean.

Because if we don't have these heads, we might need to worry about surprise on this one.

See, they will have breathed it out.

A hell of a lot is going to leak even before we get it.

And all I'm going to do is to hit the high notes.

Folks, we're fighting inflation.

We've got a program.

It will work.

It's a program which is a very fairly broad consultation.

We can win this battle, but in order to do that, this is a required decision.

Do you want to say it requires sacrifice?

Do you want to use the sacrifice theme at all, or the confidence theme and not sacrifice?

More the confidence theme.

I don't think the sacrifice theme is particular.

I think it was all right for a while, but I didn't want to talk about the sacrifices over there.

I don't know if you're really asking for sacrifices.

We're not really...

No, we're going to get less money, people get more, but we're not asking so much in the future.

People like to be asked for sacrifice.

I'm not sure they even will.

Except when they actually have to deliver it.

They have to do it.

No, that makes it appear to be grin and bear too much.

I would say we ask for your cooperation and for your support and put the interest aside for everybody.

Get back and use exactly what I would reuse to put the interest of the country and all the people above that.

If somebody wants to pay a person exceeds its amount, or a big amount, or a price increase, let's remember what really counts more is the cost of living for all of them.

It's a good sentence.

Use it again.

Don't worry about it.

We're deadless new pros.

Go back and put things to use.

How soon do you want the draft?

Not to learn?

Well, let me say that, uh, that may be unreasonable.

Uh, I have to go over to, uh... No, it's all right.

Keep him back.

Eight and a half, 8.55.

What's that?

8.35.

Oh, it takes a long time.

8.35.

Well, 8.35 is...

What do they shoot for?

I don't think you'll ever make 9 o'clock.

As a matter of fact, I'll be back.

I'll tell you what.

You can do work tonight and be free.

You can make yourself free.

Well, why don't you say that instead of tonight, so that you'll have more time, in other words, and so forth, that we will say at 9 o'clock in our night, I'll be fresh.

We ought to get you a chance to work.

You give me a copy tomorrow, and then I'll take it over, and then we'll talk again.

Because I have to save you tomorrow to work the day after that.

See?

Okay, fine.

I'll give you a drink.

I don't mind your insult.

What I meant is, after you get some drafts, we can clear it up a lot of people.

Because it's like the other early Anderson drafts.

Thank you.

Okay, got it.

I think it's a pretty clear direction.

What?

It's a quite clear direction.

I don't know exactly what you want.

Well, you've got to ask me about it.

In fact, when did Mr. Bob present the bill with the problem that we, you know, these guys, his guys, could be better than theirs?

Bob, I ask you.

Bob, you know, this is already important, but the news hour, I ask you, just for me, let me tell you a little bit more.

Because we're going to announce this tomorrow.

That allows for more orderly way of presenting.

The main thing here is to do this in an orderly way.

So it isn't a creative crisis.

We don't constantly want to stir people up.

Well, there's a change.

Things are going very good.

I'm going to show a different feeling of confidence.

Therefore, I said, do this.

And also, even if it's more practical than I saw the draft date for the rest of the crisis, I can't do that.

On the other hand, the whole Caustic Living Council came down with the idea that we must do it in prime time because we've got to enlist the support of the people.

I agree with that.

The staff is here because the people are all waiting with bated breath as they do.

I don't agree with that.

They're not waiting with their bated breath.

They're not the people.

The people that would have heard me, they're not waiting with their bated breath.

They're all listening.

So when Bob came up with his proposition to the news tonight, then you don't interfere with the guy's movie and all the rest, which we don't like to do too often, unless it's a terribly big announcement.

And you do, on the other hand,

uh, get a hell of a lot, you know, 30, 35 million people, which is a, you can get a deal with an announcement, yeah, because you have the potential in the Midwest and the East

Anybody who wants to hear it can.

If you do it at noon, a lot of people who want to hear it can.

And a lot of people just can't get to a television set at noon.

But at 7 o'clock or even 6 o'clock at night, they can.

They want to.

A lot of them already have their set on.

And you deny it until they can and they want to.

You don't.

You don't interfere.

You don't create any pressure.

You don't interfere with their programs.

Well, I was just going to comment during all the rest.

Actually, you will.

You pick up the prime time if you announce it a day before.

The networks will then block out probably a half hour after the news.

And when you go from 7 to 7.10, the news goes to 7.30, then it'll do a half hour right now.

That's what we want.

The networks that are going to have a little blah, blah, blah about it, what we really want is to create a conference and so forth with the president reading and the president telling them, look, things are going well and here's a new, here's the same, here's a continuation of our program.

We have decided because this is the success of the continuation.

Now, and that, you see, there is much advantage, there is great advantage in doing that with the people directly so that the networks are able to, you know, tear to pieces

Some of them may try to create an impression of how it's all a problem.

But Bob, when you say news time here, that's what, 7 Eastern time?

7 Eastern.

And 6 Midwest.

7 Middle, 4 John Boynton.

But California, I think if you keep it to the 10 minutes, I think that what will happen is it will go into the regular news feed at 10.

That's up.

And the California, the western stations will carry the full thing as they get into the news because it will have blocked out the news feed out of here anyway.

That's interesting.

It's worth a try.

We've talked about doing something, and this is the kind of thing that fits that kind of thing.

I just have an concern, just an uneasy feeling about having an awful lot of people presenting and being stirred up, and they don't need to be stirred up.

This will hit the hell in the end.

Also, this gives us a

Good morning.

all this, and that can be done very, in a very orderly way here, by 5 o'clock, by 5 o'clock, which means we've got time to write it, we've got time to write it, time to think about it, and rest.

Now, of course, you can still do it if I didn't, you can still do it if I didn't.

You can still read it if I didn't.

But it does mean, I think if you wanted to do it at the last minute, you could do that either way.

You could do that either way.

That is a hard connection.

So you really come down to the fact that my concern, and you have the same concern that you've all been hitting us with all the time.

I do.

Also, we want to hear your plan, brother.

That was my other question.

I got it.

I want to go across the conference.

But I, you see, you watch that, right?

July 15, prime time.

August 15, prime time.

Didn't do it in September, though.

We had a hell of a lot of news in September.

Everything from Alaska to the speech of the Congress and the rest.

October, these announcements are going to miss them today.

It's going to have a hell of an impact.

Now, I used to go to a press conference on television.

But I'm deliberately spacing these out.

I never want to hit a prime time order once in a while.

I want to hear those people.

But I think you could do a press conference.

But if I do this in prime time, then I can't do the press conference in prime time.

Not this time.

So I think that's the motivation.

If you don't do this in prime time, you ought to be thinking about a television press conference at night sometime October 15th, 20th.

But if you don't feel inclined along those lines, this is a legitimate use of crime time.

Nobody would criticize you for exhorting the people on that.

What do you think?

No, I think that's right.

But I don't think anybody would criticize you for it.

I think it's a legitimate use of crime time, but it's a good use of crime time for the president.

Compared to what we've done, we've been on both sides of the China that was breached.

or i think it was just a little speech this is positive this is very impossible that's the whole thing we've already made we've got we've drenched it regularly out the other one it's sort of a repetition and the rest is it's really avoiding natives that's that's the reason that i am a little bit about this i like this sort of a thought uh it's like something that's uh

This is not the first crack at it.

That's it.

We're new.

That's the point.

This is the first crack.

It's the second crack.

And yet it doesn't put on the back burner with an afternoon announcement.

It would be nice if we kept this from leaking all over the place tomorrow.

What do you mean, the content?

Yeah, after the president announces that he's going to give a speech on this tomorrow.

I think the pressure on everybody...

I think it's from Leakey, pretty much.

The Coastal Living Council... Yeah, the Coastal Living Council should be told not to confirm any rumors.

Yeah.

Yeah, the president has all this under consideration.

That's the basic way they're going to do it on the consultation side.

They say this is what he's going to do.

They're saying...

Considering doing this, if he goes this way, would you feel that such and such is shown?

So that people don't get a confirmation of what it is, they're not going to be shown the firm.

Right.

But at the four o'clock meeting this afternoon, they ought to be told, you know, the moment.

Fine.

Well, you go ahead and work, and I guess lunch is after the scheduled stop.

Yeah.

So...

and sort of get what you feel about a beat, you know what I mean?

And then tomorrow when I'm back, if I can have a copy, I'll come in, I'll be fresh, and I'll work on it in a couple hours, and try to come back to you with another idea.

It can't be the same way, except it isn't as difficult as it can be in a way that we don't have to go in as, you know, everybody's like, I don't want him, we've covered an awful lot in front of us.

She said, that was really, that was a, that was, that was a common actor.

I think the way Bill worked out, we, by the time we got through that, we worked all night.

But that, there was an enormous amount of substance to be covered, and that was an announcement, not exhortation.

This is, see, this is actually, it has a different purpose.

And that had three different things to cover.

Yeah.

You covered one.

Okay, 9 o'clock in the morning.

All right.

Good luck.

Blow their showers.

Yeah.

You like that, don't you?

I can do it by this afternoon.

I just want to be in the wrong direction.

I couldn't.

Don't try.

Okay.

You know, we're fortunate to have him in this hall and a thing like this.

I could no longer get Ray Price to come up with something by that o'clock in the morning and fly a reason.

He tried.

But he'd come in with the first draft and say, this isn't coming together yet.

Here's D.T.

Fitch's supplemental notes.

I couldn't write back to the speech written in 10 days.

The sad part is he could do a speech in 24 hours.

He'll do it when it has to be done, and then he'll work on it as long as he can and getting it shaped around.

Yes, sir.

I just wanted to do it for some of these things, and I think that you wanted to do it for some of these things, and it seems like this would fit.

Yeah.

I mean, we've talked about doing something on announcement news time.

Why not?

We do it rather than having the networks to be able to command decisions, whether that's what they use or anything.

I think it's very important to try to keep the damn thing down in ten minutes.

It's half the time.

I just want to add something.

The thing is to keep the substance out of it.

Don't try and cover all that ground.

Just try to get the people to say you've got it.

Just say, I've got a plan and we need your help to make it work.

I know it will.

David, if you tell them the whole thing, they won't get it anyway, so there's no point trying to.

Do you know where Rose is back at?

Yes, she is.

She's in, seems to be in pretty good shape.

So, we're going to leave this entire thing.

She said, oh, she did not.

Well, we came back on that.

Okay.

Okay, so when did we come back?

Yes.

Yeah, we came back the 2nd of September.

Just please, just watch your way to the same line.

I'm surprised it said that much of an impact to the rehab.

People would say it to him, but I don't understand why there'd be that much of a stir.

I don't know what's going on.

They thought about it.

They thought it was falling apart.

Falling apart.

They didn't believe us.

That's great.

Sure.

That's great.

I don't know.

Bill's that smart.

Drama and interest.

That was a rocket ship, you know.

Kept it open.

That's the problem.

Yeah, I could see it bobbing a bit.

He picked it up.

He used exactly the same line around as you did.