Conversation 588-021

TapeTape 588StartTuesday, October 12, 1971 at 2:31 PMEndTuesday, October 12, 1971 at 2:45 PMTape start time04:15:44Tape end time04:28:18ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOval Office

On October 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:31 pm to 2:45 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 588-021 of the White House Tapes.

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[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-008. Segment declassified on 10/13/2017. Archivist: DR]
[National Security]
[588-002-w001]
[Duration: 2m 19s]

     Taiwan–People’s Republic of China [PRC] relations
         -Consensus on One-China policy
              -Compared to Two-China policy
                    -Benefit to US
              -The President’s comments
                    -Diplomatic resolution desired
              -Complexity of situation

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     Taiwan–People’s Republic of China [PRC] relations
         -Consensus on One-China policy
              -Italian domestic political situation
                     -The President's view
                          -US domestic concern

     Moro's observations
         -Middle East
               -US efforts
               -Israel and Egypt
                     -Positions
                     -Suez Canal
                     -Rogers efforts
               -The president's reply
                     -Italy's role
                     -Moro's view
                           -Italy's objective
                                  -US support

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:31 am.

     The President’s schedule
          -Sons of Italy

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:18 pm.
     Economic situation
         -John B. Connally
               -US objective

Americo Cortese, Peter Gay, Frank Montemuro, Paul Landi, Nicholas Cipriani, William Cercone

     Greetings

     Introductions
           -[Unintelligible]
           -Standard of Ohio

     Photo opportunity

     Presentation to Moro

     The President's presentation of gifts
          -Columbus Day
               -Paper weights
          -Golf balls

     Herbert G. Klein

     Vice President Spiro T. Agnew

     Expressions of appreciation

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 12:26 pm.

     [Unintelligible]

Moro et al. left at 12:27 pm; Butterfield and Volpe remained.

     The President's schedule
          -Butterfield
               -Unknown person's telephone call to Volpe

Volpe left at 12:29 pm.

     Weather

The President left and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 12:29 pm.

     Proposal

     Connally

The President entered and Butterfield left at 12:30 pm.
     Weather

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 12:30 pm and
12:31 pm.

[Conversation No. 588-2A]
[See Conversation No. 11-32]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Poll
            -Popular approval of Nixon
            -George Meany

The President talked with John N. Mitchell between 12:31 pm and 12:34 pm.

[Conversation No. 588-2B]

[See Conversation No. 11-33]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Supreme Court appointment
          -Mildred L. Lillie
               -Catholic
               -Husband
                    -Italian

The President talked with White House operator at 12:35 pm.

[Conversation No. 588-2C]

[See Conversation No. 11-34]

[End of telephone conversation]

                 -Name background

The President talked with John N. Mitchell between 12:35 pm and 12:36 pm.

[Conversation No. 588-2D]

[See Conversation No. 11-35]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Supreme Court appointment
          -Lillie
                -Husband, A.V. Falcone
          -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
        -Haldeman
              -Wife's position on Women's Liberation
                    -Woman appointee
        -Lillie
              -Position
        -John D. Ehrlichman
              -Lillie
              -Position on a woman appointee
              -Mitchell
              -Robert C. Byrd
                    -James O. Eastland
                    -Steve [Surname unintelligible]
                          -Horatio Alger story
                    -Membership in organizations
                    -The President’s view
                    -Judicial views

Polls
        -Approval ratings
        -Meany's position
             -Compared with the President’s position
        -Labor
             -The President's economic program
             -Federal action
             -Strikes
             -Anti-inflation program
        -The President's economic plan
        -Union compared with non-union workers
             -Meany
        -Louis P. Harris
             -Charles W. Colson

Media
    -Reporting
         -Local stations
         -Public broadcasting

Gen. Albert Redman of White House Communications Agency [WHCA]

Forthcoming trip to PRC
     -Dwight L. Chapin's preparation for PRC trip
     -Kissinger
     -Peter G. Peterson
     -Use of telephones by staff
           -The President's 1959 visit to USSR
           -Redman
     -Secret Service
           -Car
     -Ground station communications and media station
           -Boeing 747
            -Set-up
      -Capability
      -Instructions for Kissinger
            -Inspection by PRC
-Communications
      -Telephones
      -Speaker of the House, Carl B. Albert
      -Ground station
            -Purpose
            -Congress
-Videotapes
-John A. Scali
-Public interest
      -Europe
-American networks
     -Coverage
-Kissinger
-Rogers
-Secret Service car
     -The President's experience with Soviets
     -Yugoslavs
     -Rumanians
     -Chinese
     -Use of car
            -The President’s view
-Communications
-Secret Service
-Secretaries
      -Kissinger
      -Women
      -Rose Mary Woods
      -Military men
            -Ability
            -Navy yeomen
            -Stewards
-Women accompanying the President to PRC
     -Woods
-Chou En-lai
     -Mrs. Nixon
     -Adele (Langston) Rogers
     -Woods
     -Kissinger
     -Mrs. Nixon
            -Rogers
            -Public relations
            -Constance M. Stuart
            -Ronald L. Ziegler
            -John A. Scali
-Klein
     -USSR
             -Robert H. Finch
             -Donald H. Rumsfeld

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:36 pm.

     Polls
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 2:13 pm.

             -Unions
                  -Meany compared with Nixon
                  -Ehrlichman
                  -Strength
                  -Strikes
             -Harris
                  -US economy
                        -The President's handling

     News magazines
         -Evaluation
              -Kissinger
         -Disney World
              -Time, Newsweek articles
              -Life
              -Florida economy
              -Television special

     The President's schedule
          -Disney World
               -Television special
               -Republican women event
               -Walt Disney's widow
               -Haldeman’s role

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[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under PRMPA regulations 07/24/2019. Segment
cleared for release.]
[Privacy]
[588-002-w004]
[Duration: 38s]

     Press coverage
           -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo
                -God son’s opinion

**********************************************************************

     Press story
     -Veracity

Newspapers
    -Ziegler
         -Los Angeles Times
         -Newsday
         -Roland Evans and Robert D. Novak
         -Administration’s dealings
              -The President’s view
         -Marty Schram’s article
              -Haldeman’s view
         -New York Times
              -Robert B. Semple, Jr.
              -Administration's relations
                    -Klein
              -Editorial policy
              -Max Frankel
              -Semple
         -Los Angeles Times
              -Administration’s position
              -Irwin
                    -Semple
         -Kissinger
              -Availability to press
    -Romana A. Banuelos

Newspaper story on Banuelos
    -[Forename unknown] Rosenberg
          -Harry Bernstein
    -Justice Department
    -Mitchell
          -Los Angeles office

Evans and Novak
     -Kissinger
     -Book
           -Foreign policy
           -Richard J. Whalen's review
     -Access to White House staff
     -Kissinger
     -William L. Safire
     -Rumsfeld
     -Finch
     -Rogers C. B. Morton
     -Patrick J. Buchanan
     -Jimmy Allison
     -Hugh Scott
     -Clark MacGregor
     -Columns
     -J. Edgar Hoover
             -Jack N. Anderson
             -Approach
             -William C. Sullivan
             -Responses

Television
     -Comments regarding the President's Phase II economic speech
           -[Dwight] David Eisenhower, II
                -Edith Effron
                -Theory of network intent
                -Novak, et al.
                -Compared with isolation presentation
     -Slanting of presentations

Media
    -The President’s Phase II speech
    -Peter Lisagor
    -Revenue sharing speech
    -Mark Hueres [?]
          -Ziegler
          -Safire
    -Possible administration approach
          -New York Times
                -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
          -Los Angeles Times
                -Otis Chandler
          -Norman Buck
          -Washington Post
          -Relations with editorial boards
                -Associated Press [AP], United Press International [UPI], Scripps-Howard
                -The President's memories of the campaign
                      -Klein
                           -UPI

The President's schedule

Press
        -Coverage of church services
             -Mrs. Nixon
        -Mitchell

Pictures

The President's schedule
     -Press briefing, October 12, 1971
     -Bipartisan meeting
     -Leaders' meeting
     -F. Edward Hebert
     -Cabinet meeting
           -Phase II
                 -George P. Shultz
            -Ziegler
      -Announcement of US-USSR Summit
      -Kissinger
            -Rogers
-Editorial writers
      -Pittsburgh
      -Oklahoma City
      -Vermont Royster
-World Series
-William F. (“Billy”) Graham
-Film work
      -Robert P. Griffin [?] birthday salute
      -March of Dimes
      -National Association of Manufacturers [NAM]
            -Connally, James D. Hodgson, Maurice H. Stans, Paul W. McCracken,
                  Herbert Stein
            -Possible radio statement
-Charles H. Percy
      -Chicago
            -Testimonial dinner
      -Griffin
-State Department
      -Singapore
            -International Telecommunications Satellite [INTELSAT]
      -Morocco
-Television stations
      -Sickle cell anemia
            -Gerald R. Ford
            -Mrs. Nixon, Julie Nixon Eisenhower
-Telephone calls
      -Griffin
      -Percy
      -Otto Passman
-Grand Commander of the Conference of English-speaking Scottish [Unintelligible]
      Free Masonry and Supreme Council in Amity
-Congressmen petition
      -Support for Taiwan
            -UN
            -Possible presentation to the President
      -Clement P. Zablocki, Joe D. Waggonner, Robert L.F. Sikes, Unintelligible
            Name, William J. Scherle, and Passman
      -George H.W. Bush
            -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
-Ceremonial duties
      -The President’s position
      -INTELSAT events
      -Sickle cell anemia
      -NAM events
      -Republicans
      -Radio
           -Percy and Griffin
           -[Forename unknown] Miller
           -Television
                 -Radio
                 -Telephone calls
     -Visit of Robert S. McNamara
           -Crime
                 -Ehrlichman
     -Harris
           -Colson
     -Fort Detrick
           -Cancer research, biological warfare laboratory
     -Possible visit by Prime Minister of Turkey
           -Kissinger
     -National Municipal League
           -Revenue sharing
           -Welfare
     -American Nurses Association
           -Elliot L. Richardson
     -Salvation Army
           -Norman Vincent Peale
           -New York
                 -New York Hilton
           -Mrs. Nixon
           -Knights of Columbus
     -Volpe
           -Presidential box at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
     -President Hubert Maga
           -Republic of Dahomey
           -Reaction
           -Visit to UN General Assembly
           -American Federation of Labor-Council of Industrial Organizations [AFL-CIO]
                 -State Department
                 -Vietnam Prisoner of War [POW] resolution
           -African nations
     -Louise Gore
           -United Nations Educational, Social and Cultural Organization [UNESCO]
           -Richardson
           -Frank Shakespeare
           -Kissinger

Chief Zosimo T. Monzon
     -Military record
     -Future plans
     -Family life
     -The President’s appreciation and support
     -Family
     -Possible future assignment
     -Lyndon B. Johnson's staff as ex-President
     -Vocation
**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[Previous archivists categorized this section as a PRMPA National Security (B) withdrawal.
                                                                      Conv.
With new guidance it is now categorized as a PRMPA Federal Statute (A).       No.
                                                                         It has   588-21 (cont.)
                                                                                been
rereviewed and closed under deed of gift 07/24/2019.]
[Federal Statute]
[588-002-w011]
[Duration: 1m 1s]

     PRC

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/24/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[588-002-w012]
[Duration: 2m 8s]

     John D. Mitchell
          -Dinners for the states
               -Circumstances
               -John D. Ehrlichman
               -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
               -William E. Timmons

     Herbert W. Kalmbach
          -Maintenance work at San Clemente
               -Ken Kammeir
                    -Fees
                    -Hal Lynch
                          -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon
                    -Gavin Herter [?]
                          -Counter offer
                    -Preference of Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon

**********************************************************************

     Walter J. Hickel
          -Future role in government
               -Alaska development
          -Stans
          -Mitchell
          -USSR
               -Siberia
                    -Kissinger

     Buchanan
         -Briefing Book
               -Press Conferences
               -Staff morale

     The President's schedule
          -Film appearances
               -Standard Oil
               -Big business
               -Connally, Hodgson
          -Eisenhower Theatre
               -Opening
                      -Reception
                      -Mrs. Nixon
                      -Alice Marriott
          -North Carolina
               -Trip
                      -Connally
                      -Idanell B. (“Nellie”) Connally
                      -Charles R. Jonas
                      -Size of delegation

**********************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/24/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[588-002-w014]
[Duration: 5s]

     The President’s schedule
          -North Carolina
               -Trip duration
                      -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon

**********************************************************************

     The President’s schedule
          -North Carolina
               -Congressional delegation
                      -Wives
                     -Sects on Air Force One
          -The President's planes, Air Force One
               -Maintenance and refurbishing
               -Gen. James D. Hughes
               -Air Force
                     -Back-up plane
               -Purposes
                     -PRC trip
                     -USSR trip
               -Old Air Force One
               -Rogers
               -PRC trip
                     -USSR trip
               -Campaign
                     -Very Important Persons [VIPs]

     Unions

     Public support for the President's economic policies
          -Prospects in good times
                -Hubert H. Humphrey
                      -Unemployment

**********************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/24/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[588-002-w015]
[Duration: 1m 18s]

     Politics
           -Charles W. Colson
           -Edmund S. Muskie
                -Drop in polls
                -Only viable candidate
           -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
           -Birch E. Bayh, Jr.
           -George S. McGovern
           -Fred R. Harris,
           -John V. Lindsay
           -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
                -Possible viability
                      -Labor
                            -George Meany

**********************************************************************
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 12:30 pm.

     Item for the President

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 2:13 pm.

             -Announcement of Soviet Summit

Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:30 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Shultz
          -Executive Office Building [EOB]

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:13 pm].

             -Shultz and Rumsfeld

     The President's schedule
          -Meany

The President and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman left at 2:13 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Oh, actually, so they're not going to be able to do it.
Mom, you're right.
We don't think we're going to do anything next week.
I didn't realize that he was going to use this as a launching thing for it.
I thought this was a meeting to talk it over with you and Bill, but it wasn't.
Make sure we're in the right place.
The only other question is on that film clip, they can do it tomorrow.
They process it here and Percy's going out at 3 and they can take it out then.
To be on the state side, it would be better to do it today.
If you want to get it out of the way, we can do it right after the cabinet meeting.
And then you don't have to worry about now the goddamn thing.
So we haven't got anybody to write this sort of thing.
Oh yeah, it's written.
30 seconds.
I'm not going to do five minutes or two minutes.
One minute.
I want 50 words.
50 words of each one.
They're called 90 seconds to lose.
And they're one pages.
It's too long.
90 seconds is too damn long.
I'd say knock the other one off, the five-minute one off.
Not doing anything else.
Great.
He's the only two.
Just listen to your own words.
That's all he says.
I think we're ready for wilderness.
I've always appreciated Chuck's support and his vigorous persuasive advocacy.
Now, God damn it, he hasn't said, well, you can't, you know, look, am I wrong?
I can't, it's dishonest.
Is that what it says?
Yes.
I've always appreciated Chuck's persuasive support and his vigorous persuasive advocacy.
I, I mean, I, I can't walk.
Thank you.
The columnist is darn good.
He's really good at what he needs to work, you know, get your deal.
I hope this runner's talking to the problem and some people that John Six is better.
Let's get it done better.
I don't want to be braided now.
I don't know why you don't need to see Mark Good and all that crap.
I'll walk the direction of what other people did.
They had a potion set up.
The teleprompter said I'd be walking.
I walked in.
I said, no, I'm not.
You see Mark Good.
If you just send me a teleprompter, it's fine.
Then I set it all up.
But I want them to know that I don't give a damn how I look.
I don't really care on this thing.
I just want to walk in and get it done.
And I'll read it and be done.
Fair enough.
Yes, sir.
Have I done the speech typewriter?
No.
But we'll do the speech typewriter and the telephone.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Here's the telephone.
That's the case.
I won't use the speech.
I'm not going to sit there and read something.
I'm just going to use the telephone.
Okay.
I shouldn't have put that in this way.
They are tracts.
They're just not named at all.
It's the leadership again.
There we go.
There we go.
Send messages.
Send wires.
Yeah.
And it's a brief, brief, brief, brief reason.
Nobody likes to send wires.
The key to the wire is just that it's from the President of the United States.
President of the United States.
I am delighted to talk about you and Salili.
I'm grateful that you got the person to sign.
President of the United States.
Wow.
That's what it is today.
But, uh...
It's awful hard to imagine.
We're doing better.
We're doing better.
They're all realizing now that the short speech is better now, aren't they?
Yep.
It's amazing how they've gotten around to it.
Yep.
So he's got to be the right one.
He gets back to doing it long again.
It's hard to write a short speech.
Sure is.
And I'm tired.
I read that he's had a response to it.
I did the research.
I wasn't doing it for the other.
I didn't tell George that.
That's good.
Well, it's just a little bit for the other.
It shows you, you know, you're launching yourself off to Russia, and you're also keeping labor ground together.
It's not a bad balance.
And they'll probably use both of them.
It doesn't really make any sense.
I mean, it's really two different things.
I don't know.
Maybe it doesn't make any sense.
It's sort of respect.
On the other, they don't communicate.
And you expanded on me beyond what you read.
Oh, yeah.
So, the Chinese communicate, they expect you to read.
They have to.
You know, getting back to what I was going to say, for example, Bob, just the little thing I said there, look what has happened, I think.
This is spurring progress in negotiations.
And that's what our guys have got to hit.
And I don't know that they do that.
Could somebody write, could you have, you can write two, two pages, for example, for four or five minutes, and everybody should put it in their speech.
I mean, this is a story that, you know, let alone wind down, wind down before opening in China, man.
I may be underestimating what we're trying to do, but I have a feeling that we just take it for granted.
I mean, just in a few conversations I've had with Colson and Scallion and the rest, that while everybody knows that he's a big deal in foreign policy, so he's got to work on progress and reorganization and revenue sharing and all the rest.
And I really think that's true, that everybody doesn't know it.
That's the right point.
Everybody does not know it.
They don't.
Would you agree with me that this is a case?
Would you agree?
And you got it?
And also, we know from a little, as I say, it's a little goddamn namesake, you know, the airports, cleaning up crimes.
And so all people are interested in it.
That's when they listen.
Correct?
Yep.
It's when they listen and it's when they cheer.
Would you pass that car to the staff and say, look, don't talk about the other guys' issues unless you have to.
Just throw in enough of it to show you're paying attention to it.
Put out savers.
That's right.
Let him figure it out.
Let him throw it in.
Let him ump these other things.
But it's harder than either.
But if I had this package to sell, I could sell it.
If I were around, Christ takes the magnum all ahead of every speech.
Shouldn't he?
Absolutely.
He does.
Does he?
He does a good job on it.
Rogers, as you know, does a good job on it.
Yes.
We need to get...
all the other people the domestic guys should hit it because they don't mind the little inside of the mix in the man and the thing on the manager those two things they'll get more interest