Conversation 590-003

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Yeah, this is pretty high.

Get down now.

That's a good time.

We'll talk about it later.

Well, I was curious.

I remember when we first came here, we talked about the problem with prison and about the addiction rate and so on.

I just wondered if there's any measurable change.

This last, after this last shakedown, we had that death out there.

From what I understand, the last couple, last week or so, the rate's substantially down.

This is what I get out of that.

It's very difficult to tell.

A lot of people in there.

You still have your people in there, don't you?

President.

Hello there.

How are you?

Fine.

Good to see you.

I guess our city's going pretty well.

Well, we think so.

The Redskins are.

Well, uh... That all scares the city.

Oh.

I've noticed that I've talked around a lot.

People get around.

Everybody says, God, things are going great.

Well, losing, losing is a terrible thing.

It was.

And we were sort of hoping...

They may get another ball club here sometime.

The leaves will expand.

In the meantime, Mr. President, we were hoping that you might foster a move to have the Redskins play the whole year.

35 games.

That might be good.

The enthusiasm of the Redskins is just unbelievable.

Is there anything being done on the ball clubs?

What you need is some ball that really wants to blow up.

I think if it weren't for Cleveland, I think that our friend out there

Stalker, that club right here.

I think, but I guess we can't get back to Cleveland.

Because Stalker has got Manny's hell on the line.

This and that.

We're running.

Well, they're still talking to Cleveland, I'd say, and a little to Chicago.

Well, I don't think they'll move.

I don't think they'll move for a reason that I think that Arnold Smith basically is so close to califying my recipe when I want to come to Washington.

I think San Diego in the end is going to be a very good die.

The White Sox, it's possible.

Chicago, we can't separate two teams.

Danzanski received a letter yesterday from Veazey's.

I once said that San Diego was still looking.

He dictated a letter to me today, knowing that I was coming over.

And they said they'd turn another proposal down.

That was the Cutchell proposal.

But Ed Williams and Danzanski had been out there.

We really made a stat for it.

I called overnight every editor, Kay and Jack Kaufman and Ray Mack of the News, they all came up, all of the TV stations, all of the radio stations, and all of the major banks, except American Security, and they had three million in the pie, so Bob Baker said he didn't want to show up, but there was that much back of the proposal we offered them.

I think what I agree with, I don't take time, but I think the way to get that club is to do what Kansas City did.

You recall they got a club back, and the way they got it was by season tickets.

Now, you sell enough season tickets.

You see, getting the club back is giving them the money, but if you sell 20,000, 25,000 season tickets, they're going to come.

Find out what Kansas City did, and let's try that in Washington.

In other words, a season ticket deal and have a big drive.

I don't know if you remember this, but I called the county city very closely.

They got a city plan.

You remember the county city, Los Angeles, by these Holman towns.

And then they got the royal, the town, season tickets.

The town rose up and ran and sold season tickets.

And so now that's on the walking up there's back, too.

I think there is a secret in Washington.

You've got to have season tickets.

You've got to register.

Jackson, we've got baseball to do this thing.

We've got a lot of losses.

If they don't buy up, if you've got 20,000 season tickets for baseball, it should be easy.

Easy.

And then that will make this thing, I bet, a selling proposition.

Maybe they thought of this, but I'm just confident that that's the line.

Well, they were thinking more of the TV than TV.

Why not TV?

They have a lot of money.

They have a concession.

You know, the line of concessions, of course, the season tickets are with your concessions.

But, you know, you can talk all you want about TV and the rest, but that's just, that's just crazy.

It's there.

But if you have a ballpark with only 2,000, 3,000 people, it's very depressing.

It is.

which is about the seats.

You know, it's just so depressing that... We talked to him on San Clemente right after he took the job, and he said that the only way we're going to make this thing go is if we win.

And he said, I'm going to do anything and everything I have to.

I'll do whatever I have to do.

And that's important.

Well, you know, a week ago, Tuesday, I went out there.

I had never seen anything like it.

I went, Alan had me come out and speak to them, not about playing ball, but about what the team meant to the city.

And, of course, I told them they were all I had.

But, no, no, no.

Those guys were like teenagers.

They sang.

I know that guy.

They sang.

They sang songs.

He's a jolly good fellow.

They sang a song about the city and then finally hail to the Redskins.

And I told them, of course, there was a quality thing.

Well, I think it was the Webfield.

The Webfield.

Can you stop the thing, please?

I think St. Louis is going to be on it.

Nobody goes to St. Louis.

That team, if that spirit stays, they could beat three teams the same day.

I have never seen a big man 30 years old singing.

And I told them, of course, it wasn't much quality, but it was loud.

And they really had a spirit of winning.

And what Alan is trying to do is to say to them, winning the ball game is one thing, but

Your regard for the city is the other thing, and that's what I want you to do.

He's a great leader.

Oh, commend him.

Well, coming back to the problems of the city, that's one.

One of the things that I think that will rejoin me, I am aware, of course, of how good our current statistics are, but I just thought we ought to have everything so that they know that I am aware of the city, and your presence here is important, and I'm also aware of a few other things.

I think so, and I think it's happening.

I feel that way beyond the bad-mouthing we get from some people.

I think, in fact, it is safer, and I think that

The movement is great.

I had the retailers in the other day from Woody's, Raleigh's, Hex.

And they tell me, Mr. President, after the meeting, one of them from Raleigh said, look, even with the place going up, we're 25% over last year in profits.

And they said Woody's is 34%.

And the hex is somewhere between 25 and 30 percent overlap.

Garfinkel's is up.

Banks are up.

Well, it is.

I think that if we can move... And they're still holding.

And Saltz is still holding.

i think what we've got to do and we're really trying to do it is move the downtown and uh really redevelop the downtown and a scale that makes you know what they're doing they're amazing with regard to this mall it's going to be fantastic too we can get that feeling good you know that's going to be a great addition

Well, I get a good feeling about the city.

Of course, we're having a lot of problems with McLean Gardens up there.

There's a lot of people against it.

That used to be a, I think it was a plain garden, used to be a, I can't remember.

That kind of came in that period.

Well, yes, Hartford, a company called Fairmac and Hartford Insurance Company wants to put $160 million in.

Well, that's where we are.

Without any cost to us.

Plus Inland Steel wants to do about a hundred million here in the Georgetown Waterfront.

It seems to me to be pretty fantastic.

Well, you know, you got, uh, you got some people here that still beef about that.

The place is falling down, really.

Well, that, they say we're, this is the only decent housing for that, that.

Oh, that's an M.I.F.

Financial facts and statistics do not seem good, but I thought it would be interesting for you to look at the rate of increases.

But it's still up.

The Washington is not up.

Is there any other major city that actually is going down?

No.

The main city of both sides, like us, is going down now.

There are others that have not.

I couldn't respond to them.

Have we adequately, have we adequately broken the Washington experience?

My point is this, that I hope so.

But one of the columns, other columns saying, well, Mitchell and Sturgeon have made over their crime plan, because the districts are bad.

So, I'll answer that, John.

Well, we were going to talk about this again, but part of it, I didn't know about this, but this is what I'm going to talk about.

I'm actually quite good this week, and that may be that word, but that's just all I'm going to do.

And that is, what do they want?

Is that the district's crime plan?

No, they just, I see this as their credibility plan.

And what they're doing is they're saying, Mitchell is phony.

that they're incredible.

We were just talking about how to make Washington's good statistics more incredible, and they have a very good idea, and that is to have a good amount of it, and to spotlight it.

All right.

Now, Brody, who do you want to have to do it with?

Jerry was talking about the... We were talking about the Pricewaterhouse, some other great company out in New York, rather than the Pricewaterhouse.

I was wondering if you had one of these...

ones like John Deweyer, who's law firms and so forth, and so on and so forth.

I mean, imagine a consultant type.

Pete Marwick is one.

My friend Ross Brothers might be one.

They're actually a managed consultant type of firm.

Like Booz Allen.

Booz Allen.

Yeah.

They're going to be bicentennial.

That would be an awesome date.

I mean, I think a little more incredible than Pricewaterhouse, which is the greatest name, of course, in accounting.

This is more than counting, isn't it?

Well, basically it is to say that these figures are true figures.

That they accurately portray life at that cost.

Not much.

We've been doing this kind of thing for 50, 60,000 years.

Oh, sorry.

Let's do it today.

Starting today.

You ordered?

Okay, yes.

Let's spotlight this thing.

Does anyone want to know what's true?

And then let's get into that.

I first announced that we wanted an audit of what was happening here.

I mean, because you remember I had an issue with a crime actually in Washington.

Everybody was surprised that Washington had become one of the most unsafe sites, which it was.

A period of six days and they were burning everything up out there.

Now, let us see, what is the situation today?

In three years we've done a hell of a job, right?

And the whole system, that's the thing, that's what's so... Well, it's a whole other thing.

I think the spirit of this thing is what we're talking about.

We can tie it up on crime, we can tie it up on drugs, let's have an audit, then let's get what Washington has done.

I did a piece on Labor Day.

with all of the pieces in, saying that this is what President Nixon and this administration has done, and I clipped them off.

Starting with police, going to drugs, and this is something that is going to interest you just by sight.

The red circles are the locations of our centers.

You see, we haven't just used one, we've used them all over the city.

The green are those that we've contracted, so we have 14

centers all spread out all over the city uh either the treatment and now with the new money we have we're doing a central intake one is detoxification one is methadone and they're just spread in all that really follows jerry's carnivores which are the areas of highest incidence of crime following that present we have 4 400 new sodium vapor lights

And your drive down here in the living room.

Just fantastic.

Just a great place.

And we've picked it up.

And we've got 4,400 new lights.

Yes, sir.

I don't know if you saw our annual report.

Here's your annual report.

I got another idea here from Lydia, and it really will help me on a whole basis.

You know, there's a racist image in central cities.

The idea is, well, the central city, as it becomes more black, becomes more unsafe.

Now, we all know what our problems are, but here you have a city, which is the most, in the major cities, that's the highest percentage of black population.

which has crime going down, down.

I think you ought to make that.

I think that's another reason.

I think that tells the others.

It's a very powerful point to make.

In other words, I, as you know, I've never really been talking the greatest thing.

It's there beneath the surface.

Everybody says, I'll stay in Los Angeles.

Well, if you weren't for those damn people in Waukesha, you wouldn't have a problem.

If you weren't for Chicago, if you weren't for those thoughts, you wouldn't have a problem.

If you weren't for Harlem, you wouldn't have a problem.

Now, here's Washington.

the most black city in terms of population in the country.

And by golly, we're, that's a problem.

I think you ought, I wish you would get that problem met.

Be proud of it.

Let us be proud of the fact that this city, you know, it shows it, it shows, and also it'll make your people of this city say, by golly,

The thing that you said to me some months ago is that, are we getting some of the black groups involved?

You'd be amazed to see more and more of the black units and black developments coming in, wanting to help.

We've got, along with Dave,

The Officer Friendly Program, which is a good projection.

We've got some Crime Stoppers, the Youth Courtesy Patrol, the Roving Leaders.

for your cadet programs.

These things are all...

It's soft stuff, but it's back-to-back with the hard stuff.

How was your position?

How did you get along?

Very good.

The problem is...

You know, it's just fantastic, really, at this point.

It's never been so good.

Joe Royal hasn't asked for us for 30 minutes.

Joe doesn't do that.

He's angry.

Joe, basically, I think that's who talked to him.

I talked to him.

He's just angry.

My field in the city is very good.

I haven't felt this strong, I suppose, since I've been in office.

Incidentally, getting back to our first subject, that is most important, the spirit of the city.

But you talk, you talk.

As I said, I think Washington ought to go out with a baseball team.

I don't think the nation's captain should leave another baseball team.

I really think we should do it, but I think there's ways to do it.

And I don't say which one.

No, I can't do that.

You know, what is the situation in Cleveland?

I mean, it's tough.

It's a great environment.

Yeah.

Cleveland is not going to support it.

They've got that lousy Lakefront Stadium, you know.

Yeah, it's all terrible.

It's great, but it's all terrible.

And they haven't had any attendance.

The Indians have had their worst walk on the curb for five years.

They haven't had any attendance.

We've found out.

You know, Stalker is just enough of a patriot that's why.

He really is.

He's lost, he's lost a pot on there and of course his stock went down here at the same time.

But he's not a pig.

It don't, it doesn't even fit in the house.

When you get a vote for Berkshire, and I'm the president, it doesn't even fit.

It doesn't even fit.

This was what Ed Williams and Joe indicated, that Chicago and Cleveland are wavering.

Well, I've got a solution.

On the other hand, if the team is going to go, let's not let it go.

We have to see, and we've got to see.

People will come out.

And his attitude was bad.

He downed the city from the time he was there.

Always knocking.

I sat by him.

I didn't tell him why.

I heard him.

I heard him with you at the opener.

You know, he's going the whole time.

Then he gets up and he goes out and he bags the city.

Allen is just down there.

Of course, that brings in the people.

He didn't, you know, he didn't even do anything for the young people.

During the summer, with all those vacant seats, he could have had 5,000 kids.

Well, why didn't he?

He was the first act when he came to us.

He could have had all the kids, you know, all the other cities.

He could have, you know, picked the doctors, even, and had them sawed.

He didn't have the kids.

You know, bring this guy in.

He's a lot more intelligent.

But a thousand feet, I would never have sent him.

I'd have that outfield filled with these little kids in the summer.

And the old man will come out.

The father will get the right type of owner.

He was sent to go, gentlemen.

Well, we, uh, we talked... Well, this will be helpful if we, uh... No, John said, you know, uh...

But they're, uh, they're making an understanding, too.

I suppose.

I haven't read anything about that.

I suspect as long as they've got owners, it feels like they're going to be awful slow on the challenges.

Also, they've got to see if they can take over the region of their owners.

Distribution isn't good.

You take the California region with the four teams in the National League.

That's why we thought we had a fair chance at San Diego.

They, you know, this is

San Francisco there, Oakland.

Oakland was talking about going to Toronto, and so was San Diego.

So we thought we had a good opportunity.

A congressman from San Diego called me and said, say, are you using public money to send those thieves out there?

I said, obviously.

I'm not sure that we want it.

I get a good feeling in town now, I don't know, I really get a good feel that the town is moving in so many different directions.

It's...

More people are coming.

Investment looks, big investment.

Unless you're out here upstream.

That's right.

Yeah.

I heard that it really becomes sort of a bed area.

Those tables are up.

That's up.

Now that's got to mean something.

It's got to mean safety.

One thing that will help that area as part of the bicentennial will be a new convention center in Sports Arena.

Just north of the archives around five blocks right in the center.

We don't have any convention center.

No convention center.

We're losing news.

Where are we, uh, where do they go now?

Hotels.

I think people are going to lose it after this.

You better watch the building again.

That is the worst room to stay in.

You know, because it's so low ceiling.

It is.

I go all the time.

I don't see, I don't see.

Oh, it's tough.

We need a, well, you know, they use an old coliseum out there.

Yeah, the old line.

That's awful.

It's over there.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, who's putting in this?

Well, it's going to probably be a combined operation of the district government and federal government.

The client action center would be great.

We're a little afraid to just let it go.

You can't use it as a talent center for some of this, can you?

It's not that kind.

Those are little bitty halls, you know, compared to what you need.

Sure, sure.

All of the international expositions, they have no place to exhibit.

I wouldn't go much further than that.

The Chicago Hall is really too big.

You can't see the 40,000 people in the hall.

But 15,000 is an ideal number.

You can have basketball there, that way, up and down.

I see now there's no place for it, except the old Yee-Line Arena.

Let's get going on that.

That's a very good one.

And we'll probably... And then also this mall thing, Senator.

Really, if that plan goes through, we've got to start tying the city government into that now.

Yeah.

Because it's gelled to the point where... Well, I had a look at another letter where the... We've had an affluence in that group with these people.

I said...

Yes, so there's a development of a plan.

This is for the Quick Visits group.

This is from the Ross-Kidmore-Owings apparel.

This will be private, see?

If we get that going, that's going to have a tremendous effect on this city.

Get you some of that, Johnny.

Get you some of that.

That'll tie in with the convention center and then with the visitors.

center, which is a redoing of the old .

.

where it's totally safe and, you know, they walk.

I mean, you can come and park, and then you don't need your car again the rest of the day.

You don't get the kids around on trams.

They're all underneath us in the Capitol and the whole business on a circulation system.

And there are restaurants there, restrooms and benches and that kind of stuff.

One thing that is bad, for example, for us, also, we don't have adequate restrooms.

It's terrible to have a damn trailer out there for the rest of the day.

It's most terrible.

We've got to put something in, you know.

You've got to have under driver parking.

I don't mind the demonstrations.

I don't like to stay too long.

I think for the fortified business.

No, that's for the fortified business.

You know, on that Wisconsin Avenue, President, I wanted to tell you that that Hartford project is just one.

You know, Neiman Marcus is coming in, too, out in that same area.

Well, he's already indicated.

I've had talk with him.

And he wants to come in, in addition to this other one.

And that lighting, too, is just great.

Oh, that lighting is...

That lighting is a difference in day and night, and all that, we put it in there.

It just looks better, and the feeling of safety that it engenders.

I've been there.

It's extraordinary.

I haven't talked to him recently.

I haven't talked to him.

He loved the lights, though.

It's one of the things he was quite favorable to.

I don't know.

All right.

So we've had citizens providing all of the city's nine areas of service delivery and that kind of thing.

It's kind of a framework.

All right, how do you feel?

It's a long way to be very proud of what you've done.

You've come a long way.

I've come a long way, I tell you, but I tell you the support you've given us.

You know, another thing, too, I'm sure we'd be glad to be of assistance in any of your PR events.

And I'll make it go out.

And have you noticed that Isabella and Chief goes to both baseball and football games on drugs and the stars?

Yes.

And that's great.

We've helped them with those.

I know you did.

I want a certificate, but prepared.

One of the President's certificates of appreciation or something.

for each one of those players who have done that for me.

We'll get to that, Minister.

And also, a letter should go to the baseball commissioner and to the football commissioner.

I am a capitalist.

I only see things on dollars on it.

I think they do a lot of good, you know, in here.

What do you think, John?

We're on the track.

It talks about you can't play baseball unless you do that, but I want to speak of appreciation to each one of them with an appropriate, you know, just a little note to appreciate what you've done in here.

Mr. President, thank you for your appreciation.

But thinking of your problems in the city,

Use some of these great stars in the Red Sands.

Use them around.

You do that.

That's what we've done.

We did this with Vince Lombardi.

But Alan has not only said he wants to do it, that's why he invited me on.

Can I suggest one other thing?

Yes, sir.

Use him.

Now as a great speaker, a fine speaker, he just squares anybody in America, you know, he's a gee whiz kind of a fella.

But he's just the kind of guy that they'll all respect.

I think so, no question.

He's all the way.

And a very religious man and all that.

Believes in the city, though.

I do tell them, you know, when you've got something to believe in,

Another thing, Jimmy, you've got some awards to give because the coach gave them to him.

You tell him.

Tell him not to eat.

If he asks about it, tell him I said so.

Tell him that.

All right.

Well, thank you so much.

I appreciate your time for me going on here.

And I want you to know that from the very day that you asked me to go forward, I've been moving forward.

I know.

Well, I know.

You've had to take some stuff.

I mean, some people brought you everywhere.

I know that you're probably some of your people.

That's why I asked her to get along.

Well, you're not tough enough and you're not real good, but you've done the right thing.

That's the point.

You've done the right thing and you're not getting results.

I think so.

That's right.

It's going on.

You know, some of the demagogues, they demagogue about it.

They talk about it and raise hell.

And then they just go to pot.

That's true.

You've done the right thing.

And it's going on.

That's right.

Thank you very much.

Well, Jason, all right.

Thank you.

You know, it all falls down to...

Of course, I appreciate that.

I've got a bunch of mayors over here now.

I believe the city's waiting.

They want to know what we're doing here.

Must be doing something.

One thing that I think that you should tell them, that we have had a very exciting progress in terms of making our city safer in here.

And you've told me, we've chatted about this, that I, frankly, I, you know, I...

Maybe you don't want to do that now, but then I really want to say the President believes that this information, some of the things we have done, we want to know the things you've done that don't bust us.

The things we've done should be shared with you and we're going to get it around to you.

In the field of dope, in the field of lighting our streets, in the field of

I don't know if anybody's got any ideas.

And don't you think, though, that the widest part of this has been attitude.

That there came a point in time when you, the chief, and the president all got together and said, look, we're sliding downhill and it's got to stop.

And we've got to tell them this.

Tell them this.

The spirit of the city is what counts.

And the spirit of the city has changed.

And the thing, and the trouble in so many places is that people give up.

People say, I'm not going to run again for mayor and the rest.

And the spirit of this city is good and reflected in everything.

And that is what's doing it.

That's what it is.

There's a hope there.

And one of the things, Allison, that you shouldn't forget, and that is the thing that I talk about always, is that you foresaw the need to create a criminal justice system.

And it's that system that's making a difference.

We are going forward on 46 fronts at the same time, including the system.

And really, from the standpoint of your administration, that's what's making the difference.

Here, is that we're looking at the whole system and making that system improve.

And, uh, you're talking about drugs.

And, uh, upgrading... Why are you handing that to them?

No, this isn't good.

Give them a little guidance.

Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm telling you to make.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you a lot for coming here.

I want to mention to you, uh, I mentioned a couple of other things, and I have to ask a little...

So that will be the day or tomorrow.

You know, I guess part of the reason that Washington's very good at putting some extra money on this matter, you know, but we're doing it in ways that don't show up as super alarming.

We had a separate place to go.

We said, you know, we fixed Washington's crime.

They said, no, we had all that money.

We can do it, too.

Uh, but on the budgets that we're getting from the Congress, that doesn't show up.

What we're doing is we're sliding down the yard with some non-special jobs for us.

I've sat down here before this, and you see, we speak in a spot where I have a free mission.

So, can I just close to the Masons there?

Are you a Mason?

No.

I don't.

The only damn thing I joined, I must say, I had to join that.

He won us.

Oh, Charlie.

I hated being serviceless.

And I was a member of the Justice Chamber.

And nothing else.

I've never gone that far.

I had to join the Bar Association.

Oh, the Bar?

I didn't have to go to their meetings.

Oh, I don't know.

Well, yes, this call doesn't seem to ever really remain.

The Masons have been asking me time and time again.

You know, there's nobody they always say, you've got to ask to be a Mason.

I had a relative that worked on me to be a Mason for years.

I'm not a Mason.

Nothing.

Let me say this.

I feel it's very important, if we can, to move very quickly on the court things.

I'll tell you why.

The moment names get rooted about, they'll tear me pieces.

Now, I don't want any, I know you'll be real.

The other reason is that

Since we're riding a very good wave at the moment in the foreign field and on the other field, the thing to do would be to hit its ass while the wave is still there before it cools off.

Now, I do know the problem, and I understand.

I'm just as keenly aware of the fact that we want to get caught with something that can screw us up, something that guys have broken.

Well, we haven't waited.

We haven't waited.

Your names went to the Bar Association.

But if we can take your investigation to immediately...

I'll start it today.

But tell them that I don't have facts.

It'll be done by Saturday.

It'll be all done by Saturday.

Okay.

You tell Mitchell that I did leave.

As a matter of fact, I declined to get the damn names that we could by Monday if we could.

Now, let me ask you about the strategy.

Thank you.

It seems to me that sending the names in tandem doesn't make sense in the sense of sending them on the same day.

I think we've got two stories here.

I'm just talking about how many pencils we're sending at the moment.

I think it's the same.

But it seems to me we've got two stories.

And yet all the benefit of sending two together by splitting, by having each die right on its own, I'm afraid if you send them in tandem,

What's the argument?

Well, just that the Bar Association now has six names.

By Monday, those six names will probably leak.

And then the question is, do you want to pick your selections out of those six one at a time on the theory that you're making your mind up in series, or do you want to do both at the same time as would be more or less natural?

Well, why couldn't you do this?

You could simply say that you announce one on, say, Monday or Tuesday.

I say, I'm announcing this tomorrow.

I will announce it.

I will have any others.

Good.

That's what I'm doing.

One thing after another.

I want each story to get its run.

The Lilly story, if we go over here, will completely kill whoever else is there.

I don't want that to happen.

See?

Yep.

So what I had in mind was to make the

It would seem to me that the Friday story, if you go with Friday, you should go first.

Would you agree with that?

I would agree with that.

And the woman should come second.

Yep.

But I would say I have this name today.

That's right.

That's it.

Tomorrow I will have another story.

I would say I have this name today, basically the black seat in the court.

And then say right then, I'm not going to leave anything until tomorrow.

I will have an announcement on the second day.

I said, why are you waiting while we're just reading the request card?

The process.

Yeah, the process.

I think that's true.

But I think you see, you get it in a sense, the two-name deal.

You get them up there.

But then you come up.

The boys that we sent out, we sent them last night, and they're told they don't have any more time beyond this week.

And they've got a

They're prepared.

They're well geared up, so I'm sure it won't take any longer than that.

Unless they were to turn up something that they wanted to follow out, in which case it would probably be trouble.

But from everything that Rehnquist was able to turn up, everything that Mitchell knows, both these people look... What is your...

The fact that you represent school lawyers is going to be a problem.

They're clients.

It isn't a matter of conviction like Carswell making speeches that are racist.

It's that the guy had clients.

And I think Sam Urban and people of that kind will be able to stand up and make speeches about how you don't penalize a lawyer for the explanation.

I think that the attack will be, who's Herschel Friday?

Uh, and uh, why don't we get a, why don't we get a giant, uh, like, like, well, then of course you always say, we got that in a staff meeting the other day, some guy said, uh, we ought to be aspiring to get giants.

And I said, do you know any giants?

Name a giant.

Who's a giant?

Do you see the ones that were listed by the academic issues in the 12th?

12th grade?

And Brandon was stupid.

Now, he's a man of arms.

I have to say, Brandon was not that stupid.

Brandon's a lightweight.

I said, this guy, they're giants when you bury them.

They're always political hacks when you appoint them.

And look at Black's history.

Look at the eulogies that went up for Black the other day.

Now, I'd like you to do one other thing, if you would, clearly.

I have to have a very, very sticking idea since we do it.

I would like to know how many years Friday has practiced.

And I'm not sure he's been to the Supreme Court all those years, but close to it.

And then what I will say is that he has had more years of acting practice than any present member of the courtroom, so you point him for that reason.

Now, if you can actually see it real, and I want to know

How many years all present city members of the court have been judges of courts of another jurisdiction?

Now my guess is that they haven't, they probably haven't had it in more than three or four of the most.

But you see, the beauty of this woman's situation is that she has, she's been a judge and a court, and I can say, compared to a woman, you can say, we have here someone who has had more, and I think this is what I'm probably going to be able to say, who has had more of a service

on limited jurisdiction, that all the other judges present on the court combined, and we need to get that kind of knowledge in the court.

Do you think that sells?

Now, the professional, always the professionals, they always bitch that appellate courts never have anybody on there that practiced law.

That's the song I always hear.

And so you say, you say as a practice...

But also on a public court, isn't it good to have somebody that's had years on the trial?

Oh, no question.

No question.

They know what the hell is coming up.

Yep.

And I think you could argue this both ways.

It would be highly, highly thought of in the bar.

You can say, as a practicing attorney, I'm sensitive to the need for practical downer, da-da-da-da.

I want you to get together, John, you and your, you know, you get together the argument.

I'm going to have a little press time.

I'm going to build them up like hell.

But I'd like to be able to make about each of them a special point.

It occurs to me that Friday...

is probably the perfect test to find just a good practicing lawyer.

Plus he's had five years of judicial experience as a clerk to a federal court.

And also he has taught law.

He's one of the acknowledged experts in federal practice in the country.

in the practicing bar.

So you're getting expertise, you know.

Well, but you seem to be connected.

I really do.

Well, you know, we might tell a little bit about that.

W.H.O.

didn't have any trial bar experience.

No, he came from a... Richard White did not.

No.

Uh, Brennan did not.

I don't know.

He could have.

Brennan was a judge at Eisenhower for good or good enough.

All right.

Berger did not.

No.

He didn't regard it as a trial bar.

Blackman did not.

Blackman went out directly and struck the Supreme Court.

That's right.

Uh, Conrad Stewart was a district judge for a short time.

District judge?

Uh, then that's perverted.

But that would be very greenhouse.

He was very short, then he went on to the circuit court.

Oh, yeah.

But you know, a district court, the Superior Court of Los Angeles, has infinitely more school than the District Court.

Yeah, correct.

And also, the District Court of Los Angeles has to do with

the whole ground human activity, you know.

I knew what she was on the criminal side and what side.

I think she was...

It was taped.

Well, just think of it.

Is it true that you have a Supreme Court somebody that has been down there on the barricades?

Well, that's sure.

That is sure the feeling of the bar.

he said yeah that one of the reasons that we got miranda and a lot of those kooky criminal opinions is because nobody was there who had had any practical experience except warren and it's been so long since he's been a prosecutor that he lost touch with the matter but here you go

The way I have a little bit of a mind, you know, for me to go out and say that I, and looking for this, I felt it, is looking over the court, I found that they had many, many assets.

Some of them judges, some of them appeals judges, some of them, just many of them.

I found one weakness was that there was a possibility of practice, I mean a possibility of

of knowledge of and participation in a presiding over a court of original jurisdiction without another jurisdiction.

And so the individual that I have selected is one who's had more time, did 20 years, than all of the rest of the judges combined.

And strengthens the capacity of the Supreme Court that's so important at this time of judicial reform and all that.

Judicial reform and law orders and all that.

So many more problems and all this and that.

And then to come out with the fact that she's a woman.

to come to that sentence rather than the fact that I have named a woman for the Supreme Court.

Don't let that be.

I want to find something explainable about this woman.

Doesn't that make sense to you?

That's the back stand that would be, I think, would really help.

If you're not appointed it would be because she's a woman, you would have something to look for.

Everybody knows who you are, but on the other hand, you've made a hell of a case for the fact that if you were me,

Call her black, white, Jew, Negro, any name.

You would appoint her because we need a trial court judge on the Supreme Court.

Somewhere along the line, if you could call her by her married name, which is, you know, Marcuse or Falcone.

Oh, I've got a friend in Canada.

I've got a military Falcone.

Don't worry.

That's what her name's going to be.

Her name's going to be Lily.

Not your damn mom, not your damn business.

I don't know what it is, but it sounds Italian.

You had an Italian day here yesterday when you had the sons of Italy and everybody.

That's Tor.

I guess it's an argument.

He's been peddling Judge Taro around here ever since he got here for every job we ever had open.

I know it, I know it.

I'm sure he is.

No, her woman should be there.

Women last 10 years, 12 years, 15 years.

At least.

Women let out their men.

She'll be there when she's 75.

You can make it 20 years for her.

75.

And the other guy, 20 years.

He's 49.

He's just in the prime of life.

We have a sticky little appointment problem in replacing our Fletcher.

I don't know if Colson's mentioned this to you.

Well, it has to do with the building trades because of the Philadelphia plan.

Hudson has come up with a black who is a Ford Motor Company executive who has dealt in labor relations with the UAW and so on.

Colson feels very strongly that we should not have a black in that job again because of relations with the building trades.

Hudson has gone to the building trades and they've said they have no objection to this guy.

Now, there's the dilemma.

I don't think there's anything in it.

The guy is a management black, and so they'll think he's an Uncle Tom.

So we don't get anything that way at all.

Bobby Griffin wants this guy very badly to have this job.

He says it means a lot to him at home.

So there it is.

And I have fucked the thing to a standstill at Labor, and I get a call every day, of course, from Hudson now.

At the same time, Colson is just adamant on the thing, thinks it's very bad political judgment to put another black in this job, because we'll stamp that job as a black job.

And that a black should not be administering the Philadelphia plan, at least for a while, but we'll get well with the industry.

Well, we'll have to.

We'll have to find some other plans.

Yep.

Well, that...

I'm inclined, frankly, not to put a bite in John.

I mean, the building trades are still potentially worse.

Yep.

Well, that's Chuck's feeling, and he's afraid we'll saw it off by this gesture.

Okay.

You see, we have a few of us here, and Hutch, and after that, I heard George Schultz on his game of politics.

Stay there.

He was right.

It helps them all.

It helps our civil rights.

There isn't a god damn thing I could do.

I could go down and I could take a second wife down there and go out.

It would not have helped.

Not a bit.

You agree?

Not a bit.

We'll have to get started.

Now that doesn't mean we need to turn over.

That's not true.

That was 2%.

What is it?

Between 2% and 10%.

What was the reason for that?

Is it just the...

We're the same reason that all of the labor leadership is Democratic.

It just has been that way from the war to the war.

I agree with you.

I understand.

Yes, sir.

Just five minutes.

I'll just take a couple pictures with the country groups.

What have you got to give these people?

We've got vote-ins and draft votes, which are inappropriate.

These are mostly party people, so they may not receive them.

for the beginning of the White House afterwards as well.

All right.