Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Economic Policy and Foreign Policy

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Well, pretty quick, working very well.

I've got a pretty idea, though, isn't he?

He has a nice compromise in the future.

You know, these panelists have come with them.

Of course, it's a hell of a deal for these people to be presented.

What I think you should do is not give a six-month-old a body.

I think what you could do would be to invite...

The wife and children to come and witness them, you see.

I'll help to receive them, receive their connection.

And I'll say, wouldn't your band like to come up and have a picture, you see?

And meet them.

And I'll drop the whole bunch off, in case.

I think it would be an awfully nice thing.

Did they turn the families down?

No.

Today they didn't.

They never had.

I see.

They never had.

The only one that did was the Irish on a special day.

But I really believe that the family, you know, after all, this is the highlight of the man's career, to present his credentials in the United States.

You can bring a picture of your dad's little cousin and say, wouldn't your family like to come over?

You see what I mean?

Have the whole family standing in there and knowing that you liked it.

and have them come and they witness it.

And then I'll say, now wouldn't you like to have a picture?

And they'll come over and take the picture.

Thank you very much.

I wish you'd have a very good time and not necessarily wander out.

It worked fine today, but I'm just thinking that it's going to take one minute more, one minute more.

We'll get through these damn things and I'll continue to do them on that basis.

But no talks, no goddamn talks with anybody.

Something to talk about, they come in this office.

That's the way to do it, huh?

It's a good idea, because it's possible.

Really, it doesn't.

But you have to study up hard to do them the way he was.

You won't do them superficially.

Well, I can't risk it.

They may be asking me about something that I should know.

And believe me, it's a very rough thing.

But another son of a bitch isn't entitled to ask anything.

That's right.

And they all tried.

And not they all.

Some of them do.

But then I've got to be very careful.

I've got to think of something that I should say about his wife or his kids or some goddamn thing.

It's not really my time.

Or, and let's just not do it anymore.

But the family thing is nice, don't you think?

And let's not do the social thing, not try to, we talked to one, Elsa, having a tea with Elsa.

That takes my time.

Because then Patrick wants you to come back into the tea.

She's always insisting on that.

We've got to do it right.

She doesn't realize, her doing it right is fine, but I haven't got the time to do it right.

The family thing is fine.

She just sent a picture with me.

That's what they want.

And then later on they'd come to something else, but that way the whites didn't damn my house.

And so forth.

I just like the idea, just stay with your wife.

If you want your wife, then come and then see it, too.

And we had to bring in a separate car, so he rides with the protocol officer in his car with the flags and let his family ride behind him and watch him.

And then they come in and follow in and see that and then have them just standing over at the side while they come in.

And all the whole, all the family groups of course, they arrived some of the same, and they come in.

It'd be a nice touch, just a nice touch.

And I call them up for a picture, and that picture is worth their whole goddamn visit.

So, I think that's the end.

Well, we do all these things extremely well.

But I've just been always worried about it.

We've done our share of that now.

We're not going to do it anymore.

I checked in the afternoon, yes, we have the system set for

The dinner guests flow from the parlors in, and as soon as they start going into the Eastern, then they bring the after-dinner guests in and mingle them.

And as they go in, they say, I'll shoot that right in.

We don't have time to go to the after-dinner guests.

They're not invited so early.

They wait and wait and wait.

We run a little bit of that, you know, and not have to go too long.

We have the dinner guests that are held out there.

I wouldn't have a concert early.

Okay, it's not too bad being held, though, either.

Because it's a, they serve champagne and they have music for it downstairs.

So they're at like a reception down there.

Okay.

I always have something I need on there to show their hands.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

We ought to get invited as ladies.

You know, it's close to the 10 o'clock as we can.

But there again, I just am thinking of the use of time.

I'll be goddamn fine if I agree to it.

And also, I don't think I should put a man like Tito, 75 years old, through that damn thing.

What do you think?

I agree.

And that's... You realize it takes 20 to 30 minutes to shake that many hands.

And do it nicely.

And there are people that... Well, some of them are.

You know, most of them are administrative assistants or members of commissions or, you know, somebody that wants to go to the White House the first time.

What else?

No, it's still a bunch of marginal things.

It doesn't add that much more.

They get 50% of it by coming in.

I only add 10% to some of them, which is terrible.

Yeah.

Thank you very much.

I absolutely do.

And just thank you.

They're there.

Good.

Let's try that.

I haven't tried it out in years.

I mean, the rose has been also clean.

And I just want to say, well,

Of course, the people have been, there's words around, we shake hands and we're going to hear it.

God damn it, we don't have to shake hands with people.

The word, of course, any congresswoman, they come, they bring all their relatives from where and there, and they want to meet the president.

You know what's happened last time, which I just got there, I kicked the aides' ass, and this is what I'm going to do.

First of all, I drew a different model at the time of these gestures.

Doug Dunn always spoke briefly about it.

But definitely they didn't have a whole choir come through the lobby.

They had a choir of 15.

Now, God damn it, all that had to have some kind of plans.

15 minutes, you know, a whole choir came.

Oh, I'll go to them.

And then I went over to Richard Taylor, too, just so I didn't know.

But you can see that one thought, that's the kind of thing that's a waste.

Now, when I go shake hands with all the drivers, that's a different thing.

I mean, we're putting that in the magazine.

Oh, I suppose I should shake hands with these people today, don't you think?

Yes.

You should just go ahead and thank them for what you're saying.

I guess I understand.

Yes.

What are they working on?

Is there just a citizens committee for?

Well, don't get, don't regret talking about that.

Public support for our public support for the face, for the post-freeze.

Nevertheless, they're doing the stop inflation bumper sticker business and all that.

getting word out.

It's important stuff.

And it might help.

It might help.

People like to think it's like those letters you read.

I'll give up my race if you say it's going to help the country.

There is a certain basic patriotism among a whole lot of people.

Well, if they're told it's doing some good, they'd be goddamned if they're going to give up their raises.

The neighbor's going to get a bigger one because of it.

That's the reason why I got out before you.

You know, the parties, like the business of shaking hands with the reception and the church things, all of that,

Again, you can make a very good case, it was good to have done it in the beginning.

Because people were watching, you know, what's he gonna do?

Is he gonna do a lure?

Is he gonna snare people and all that?

You've established all that.

And if you don't do it now, nobody's gonna know the difference, really.

And they're not gonna make anything out of it.

And who the hell cares?

Who cares?

The people there were there, and they're not going to complain very much if they didn't get to shake hands.

In fact, it's a pain in the ass to have to stand in that line for an hour.

Which they think they have to do.

Oh, Christ, yes.

I mean, they're jammed with all that.

I keep talking about it.

I know they don't feel the need to talk about this.

They do.

No, no, they do.

But you wait there, see?

You don't get in the line.

You wait for a time to get in the line.

but they keep watching to let us align down and not let them get caught.

Anyway, we just want to go.

They do a hell of a good job on that.

We didn't use it.

They used it just to jam them all up and make them stand there.

I always feel so bad.

Some people won't get out of line.

See, you say, you know, please go in here, and all the people say, screw you, and get in line and shake his hand.

They're afraid you'll cut out or tell someone to get ahead of them in the line.

You watch them push in the line, too.

It's unbelievable.

the kind of people you have at the White House who would have the greatest of standards.

I'm just going to get it down where the handshaking is going to be totally symbolic.

I've got an audience.

That's the way it should be.

I really deal with what we did for Doug Carmel.

That's my president.

And that was symbolic as hell.

Hell, a long time.

Doug Carmel was one of those people who was deeply moved by it.

We should have met in Sochi.

And the rest of the press were, because they saw that, you know, one of their own being treated like that, and also they were dignified.

And without any sloppers or anything else that didn't have to be done.

Didn't try to make a big deal out of it.

Did they cover that incident?

Oh, yeah.

I don't know anybody who wrote about it, did they?

It sure did.

Of course, I wrote it before.

It was a very big story here, local story, and a medium-sized water story.

It did?

Oh, they did.

They ran a picture.

They had two or three different pictures that went down there.

Awful good, very in for one hell of a time was crying, and uh, that would come looking at me older than me with a good smile on your face.

You know, it's, it isn't really being a sucker or anything, but, um, we, we learned how to do camping and everything else, and symbolism.

You just don't work your butt off to the other 50 states and shake every last goddamn hand and work a 14-hour day and be sure that you're proving something.

We go overboard that way.

And every stinky goose, I mean, every block of people chairing the big states and even your national chairmen say, well, they ought to be doing more and more.

But I don't think they're going to say that, well, I'm in this office.

Do you think so?

Actually, they don't say he ought to be doing more.

What they say is he shouldn't be doing so much.

But he should come to my state.

You shouldn't go to so many cities, but you shouldn't go to our city.

Or Billy Graham says, don't shake hands in the receiving line.

But I'm going to add 80 more people to my reception in North Carolina, which he just did.

That's fine.

But if we said, have as many as you want, they'd have 1,000 people in line.

And it wouldn't mean anything.

If you have a couple hundred, it means a great deal.

The 56 things I picked up yesterday?

Yeah.

Okay.

We're out for some more ambassadors.

The order is done.

I wonder if you'd like to get him out of the way?

Because I'm imagining that he'd come back now.

He's down there after a couple of days.

Today and Wednesday, maybe tomorrow.

He's coming to Len's office.

It is a little bit of a problem.

I can do it tomorrow if he's here.

The reason is that I had to book a reception.

We just added a reception to the schedule.

Oh, after 6.

Well, I'll be busy through 6.

The reception starts at 5 o'clock and 787 is those moving on.

And I'd rather not have my man sort of waiting.

Okay.

I just checked.

I do reckon if he was coming to Len's office at 6, he could get him out of the way and not have to have a special.

And Len would be turning him off today.

That would just make an end to a meeting.

Does he drink?

No.

He don't?

I think he may, but...

Well, that's what I thought.

Len, if he doesn't get there quick, Len could shot him around.

He hasn't seen any of this shot in this area.

Bringing up about 615 or whatever you drew with Rod?

I don't know.

But maybe the crowd isn't working out if there's time.

I don't want to get to it.

Then you've got to tell them.

I don't know what I can do.

In a way that's easy for him.

Well, this thing ought to be here tomorrow or something.

Well, no, no.

We've got to see Lance.

Come to Lance's office and Lance is taking him to dinner.

He's here visiting his son to get this out.

Well, I'm sure you can come back.

I just thought this was the easiest way to handle it from getting in and out.

This is Seth's job.

I think you ought to be here in a second.

If we could work it out.

Well, if they're doing anything for it in New York, I don't know whether you'd be able to find out.

Well, let me ask you this.

Find out if they are doing something for it, which is, and it's not even in America.

They're not.

It's just a hell of a thing, a nice thing for me to do.

I'd be glad to see it at the scene.

I don't want to go anywhere.

Well, I thought if you were going to do it, I'd call her and say that he'd be over there.

I didn't find out if they were going to do anything lame or if they were going to call John Alexander or something.

No problem.

And there's no comment that it's going to come tomorrow or next week.

That's just not the reason.

This, you should see for about two minutes.

Say, thanks a hell of a lot for what you're doing.

These are most of the people that you know.

It isn't like the racing drivers would never have seen a five president before.

What did you tell them in the committee?

This is the committee for the new economic policy.

Citizens Committee.

They're closing it.

Timberlake should be there.

They're closing it.

But I don't wish him on it.

You're not thinking.

I'm just trying to think of what's the nicest way to do it.

Well, at the age of 95, I just can't believe that it would be easy for him to make another trip to Washington.

That's right.

I mean, given something.

Yeah, absolutely.

How about one of those $9,500?

Oh, no, that's nice.

I think, uh, what else?

It is to other people.

That's a big deal.

Well, I mean, that doesn't really serve you so much, does it?

Well, we've got your seal and your name on the card.

Well, I hope it's there.

I think the money clip or, you know, I'm going to carry one.

He probably just comes.

What about the elsewhere cake?

No, it's new.

Let's see.

He's got some good gift stuff.

Give him one of the expensive ones.

See, there's something very good in giving one something around $20, $25.

Would you do that?

Rose, why don't you come up to her and give her a nice thing?

You and Len, come on.

I'll tell you one reason why I got him.

Listen, I don't want Len to get into the court with me.

He's written me a long memorandum, you know, about finding certain people.

Well, it isn't that.

It's along those lines, and you know what I mean.

The liberal left wing can be treated in order and so forth as well as an outstanding church.

But I'm just not going to do it.

I can hold this and then you can do it.

No, no, no.

You see what my role is.

And I think if it's church socially, I just want the church to discuss.

You and Pat pulled out for a woman in North Lansing.

Yeah, a Negro woman, everybody thinks of Lena.

Have you?

Yeah.

Jewel La... Yeah, the one from Alabama.

Yeah, she's a beautiful Negro.

Yeah.

And she's an attorney in Chicago.

Yeah, she's an attorney.

She's a judge, isn't she?

She's a judge.

She ran for judge.

She's a wonderful woman.

She knows pretty well what she's doing.

Joe says she's real great.

She'll die in the Republican, which is, you can't say that there are many.

She is a Republican.

Oh, yeah.

She ran for the appellate court, or some court, I don't know.

She's head of our, she was on some committee or head of something.

She was on one of our side.

Yeah.

If Marshall goes, I've got to put her in a job.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Really, my view is this.

When I meet with women, which may come in some manner or another, I'm going to get one that is at least as...

I can't get a conservative view.

I'm going to get one that is bad.

Not bad, but right where you get a syndicated, so you get a law degree, so you get your due and your vodka and drinks, but the blind vote at the same time.

And the toast and the bad liver people.

Gross.

Now, I don't want to push that.

You're not pushing it at all.

If you could let me bring him up at, say, 615, tell Pat that he's just coming up to say hello, have a little given there that we can get him.

And I will mention it right on then, and I'll step out and say hello, and then in 10 minutes they should leave.

You know what I mean?

So don't you think that's a good idea?

Then you see, you could be there about...

It would be between six-ish, so to speak.

And we could spend a great deal of time pushing that.

So if you want to run on there until six, that would be six.

Good.

That's good.

That's a good solution.

We should.

Also, Bob may have a point that

having something that's so obvious to the world for so quite a long time.

Well, it's a private position.

It's not a private position.

But at 95, I just don't think he probably is up to taking very many trips down.

And if you're having to come down, especially, you have to spend more than 10 minutes.

We might have all of you come up and get a picture.

Yes.

Great.

Have all of you give the viewers a lot.

We can find out what gift we got.

Yes, I will.

Both of those things cut down.

Until you realize it.

And next year, I told you, I'm not going to have any state visits.

That's just not happening because of the China-Russian thing.

We told them, unless it's Europe.

Unless we have to do something for the Europeans.

Just so I'm still forcing America.

The Europeans is that son of a deal.

You know, let me hear you now.

I hope it does.

Is that it?

If we do that, uh... Well, yeah.

President, I've had a great talk with the regime.

They aren't interested in coming to Maine.

Oh, are they?

No.

I have a friend.

He was back asking for another date, so I thought we'd work.

Oh.

No.

I never know what he's really up to on that.

But, uh, maybe because, uh...

We'll try to work out this perception that way, shall we?

I just found the thing.

The board reception.

Well, really, anybody can do it.

You know, somebody that I had known 30 years ago, 100 years ago in my house would come up and say, you know, we invite very, you know, second-level people to that, which is wonderful, but they shouldn't be taking my time when I've got a first-level person to be talking to, right?

We're awfully good at this, though, if you stop and think.

They had that same plaque all the time.

Jesus Christ, we have had everybody.

We've had White House staff, we've had stuff that's, I mean, you know, the only one that I heard was that person.

And we covered the staff, and we have every damn person there is.

We've got good coverage.

The conference, we moved it around, and the conference goes that it just seemed like the

I believe that five is supposed to finish the session on the last floor and then be over there ready for you to go in right at five.

There you are.

That's great.

Yeah.

I think we're almost to the last ten seconds.

What time is it?

You heard me here last time.

Oh, yeah.

I don't have a...

I've got a call in here tomorrow and I've got to get Henry tomorrow and I said, oh, yeah.

How are you?

Well,

Good to see you.

We have a lovely day today.

I'm going to see a bunch of ambassadors tonight.

I'm told they're not coming this way all the time.

I'm going to sit over here.

You can sit over here.

That's what we call a practice.

This is an honor.

And every time anybody needs to get pumped up there, I point out...

One of the guys that sat in that chair, I think, has been active and hung since then.

Poor Al.

I don't know which one of those little countries it was, but there was one out there.

Well, I want to tell you that I've been very grateful for your talking to Chuck Mercer from time to time and giving him some of your

of analysis of this political stuff.

I didn't follow the polls as well as I probably should.

But on the other hand, one of the things that I'm particularly interested in in your polling techniques is that you attempt to

to get something other than some of the obvious answers.

In other words, you can try to dig beneath why and so forth and so on.

And I've always felt, myself, that a pole is not a pole saying, well, what you before, and so forth and so on.

It's susceptible to enormous variations

unless you analyze why, what's motivating and so forth, what's the depth of support and so forth.

And I thought, too, another interesting thing, I was rather curious, you had mentioned to Chuck the fact that you thought that, you know, phase two should not be, I'd say, the same level of intensity as phase one, right?

There were some people who felt there was a continuation.

You probably know that we, I was, I wrote that speech.

I used it to continue.

I don't know if it worked.

I had talked to you yesterday, obviously, and I thought that Fitz had played such a role.

Was there anybody else there that helped out?

You know, Fitz, for anybody, was that Gable was all right with you?

Gable was fine?

Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow.

I mean, he knows how to cooperate, and that's been for a while.

You know, he may, well, they're not too certain, but if they let us ride for four or five months,

They're standing on the American people's presence that I think that's why they did this.

That's why they came along.

We have ample evidence on two things.

One, that they don't have the support of their own membership on this position to defy you.

I don't think they're opposed.

Number two, that they

And the reputation is not that good in terms of leadership.

We've got something coming out on that.

It's very interesting.

Their view on their own numbers is more manipulators than they are dedicated, more

selfish interests than they are, and they don't look at it as their selfish, their rank and file selfish, because they think the leaders somehow are pushing their own interests here, than they are totally spiritual.

So the last area I should think that leaders in labor can stand up successfully would be to affect the financial policy.

What seems to be, with their own membership, makes it good for the country.

I think they're going to have great trouble in saying what we oppose it.

They may get involved on a particular wage demand or a particular strike or collective bargaining situation.

But I doubt that any of the crunch on this will come.

The way I see it is

When a particular union that's frozen in right now, which has the inordinate demand, capital, maybe it's construction, maybe it's child labor, comes in and they say, well, let's give it to them.

At that point, I don't think the rest of labor is going to support that union.

I think I calculated that on the internet, and I'm right, because they'd say, that's just going to ruin the whole thing for everybody.

There's a great, deep desire for the American people to

deal and last week did something together for the common good.

In other words, even though there's no war, in the sense that there wasn't World War II in Korea, do you think at the present time people kind of want to be, quote, patriotic and, quote, on the city?

Yes, I think it's got so bad that they have, or they place them

jobs are worried about, that they feel unless something is done, they've all, there isn't a person or family that hasn't suffered in this period, at least they haven't suffered, one way or another.

Therefore, they .

They are correct in this sense.

I was looking at the figures.

It's quite interesting to note that while we have had, since the

in the 1930s, well beginning in 1932 with the Depression.

While in that period of time we have had unemployment, recessions, and the rest, this is the first time, except for the many bulge, which was quite a bulge for one year, 17%, just before Korea, during Korea.

This is the first time that you really had inflation problems in this country.

Now, as I said, we didn't worry about inflation in the 50s.

inflation in the 50s, 1%, 1.5%, 2%.

In the 60s, until 67, it was around 1.5 to 61, 62, 63.

Of course, that came on.

Then in 68, because of the war, then 69 continued.

70 began to stay at a high level, and 71 begins to come down some.

And even though the inflation of the United States is less than that of any industrial, but many of the major industrial countries, like Japan, is higher, the British is higher, the Japanese is higher, and the Italians, of course, are higher.

Our people, our people, I don't know why, they react to it.

We are in the same period it fell down.

Plus all of this is relevant, you know, I remember well, I guess back in 58, when I started, that there's a dip in the economy, and a lot of things, Delro, people out of Indianapolis going around like, but I remember well, I guess I take Joe also out there.

Yeah, Joe used to work there.

And Tom is here now, too, I guess.

Is it Joe?

Joe?

Oh, I know who it is.

Joe.

Who's Joe?

Joe, I don't know.

He just cut.

I mean, just overworked.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, it's so intense.

So Joe is.

Absolutely.

Go ahead.

I know there's been an amazing event, which, you know, it's changed just one little bit, but these scholars were worried about losing their television sets.

They had to put them on.

And the idea of losing your television set or your automobile was as bad as I recall from the Depression, you know, of losing everything.

And today, if you haven't seen anything on color TV set or a Washington Sheet, in other words,

It takes not a great deal of setback for people to feel that the bottom's dropped down.

It's all a relative thing, you know.

That's the thing, too.

It's like everybody today is borrowing up to the health.

So everybody borrows.

You've got household events.

You've got, of course, installment credit and all the rest.

We've always had it.

But never everybody would borrow.

You buy everything on time.

You buy your car on time.

You buy your house on time and everything.

And that's going to be a little blip upwards, and you can't get the payments.

That's why people are more interested in such things as interest rates.

That's right.

It's just that they're very sensitive to those.

One thing that I find heartbreaking, I'm not sure that you've yet found a way to ask about it, but people do not, as far as we can tell,

get very large, quote, devaluation dollars.

I would have bet that they would have worried more about it.

I actually remember back in Thursday, everybody was swooning about going off to the whole San Francisco.

Everybody wasn't.

Yeah, those were the ones that were working on 69% of the vote.

I don't think the evaluation is something that people understand.

They don't think it's, well, it's a national pride.

They just think it's something concerning the United States.

It's just a bunch of those bankers who are involved in something that doesn't affect us.

Your voice this week showed that the public attitudes on the U.S. was, first of all, that we're going to tell us one tomorrow.

One tomorrow, in some ways, is even better.

But it really does show that the attitudes have shifted.

Well, what's happening, I'll be back in, I guess this is July, I think it's 34 or 39, people did not think that you were working and doing much good.

This is now reverse of 53, it's 28, and we think that you're doing great.

This is a tremendous ride.

What about your theory that Chuck told me about, that you do have the theory that it takes six months and one day between an upturn in the economy or a recovery from a recession, or whatever you want to call it.

This, of course, was the president's plan.

Before people reflected in their attitudes.

Now, the line is perhaps a little longer this time.

There's so many things you can't come up with anywhere else to say.

Yes, very.

But actually, we see it actually started to come up.

It started to come up in the fall of last year in the auto strike.

Yes.

And then it kind of came up in the first quarter of the 50 years when it really started to come up.

I'll go as far out as present, but I'll just mention that by the middle of November, it's going to be this Christmas will be the biggest sign that you're going to miss it.

You can just feel it.

You can just feel it in a way, in a certain way, that some people respond to this.

So that's tomorrow's poll.

After six weeks of the next administration's new economic policies, there are a dozen signs of the confidence of the American consumers on the rise.

The figures are 53 to 23.

And in March, they were 37 to 34.

So that's a hell of a square.

The other round, negative over positive.

This is now.

It's a very, very, it's money, money is there, sitting in these savings accounts.

All people need is this turnaround in confidence.

And I think the key, that's what I thought was appealing about the phase two, that the key to it is that they feel what the,

So obviously, kind of turn them on in phase one.

It's not gonna drop.

There's one message that... No, I think it did in a sort of delayed way.

I think what you put to them that night, very effectively, was this can only be done with you.

And it's true.

These are, these are the CDs that have, we have a very interesting thing.

I mean, let me, let me regress myself.

I can't for a moment here later.

Oh, I guess the gallery's going to be here, I'm sorry.

Do you have one for your, for your gallery here?

I'll look plus one.

He said, why not?

I said, it's very good.

You never listen.

Listen, he said, to you.

I was going to say that the campaign yesterday, we had, of course, you can imagine, a number of people together who, all of them, they know something about politics.

Very few know a damn thing about politics.

Oh, I would say you have to bring both of you in.

The point where it is raised, they said, and I can see it being at the surface, well now, why do we have to take this for opinion?

After all,

Let's just throw it down their throats because they aren't going to be with us anyway, and so forth.

And then I said, now look, let me talk to you about it just a little bit further.

I said, first, nobody is more aware than I am that George Gideon and Woodcock and that group are going to be against us.

I know them.

I said, Gideon is a dedicated partisan.

And that's the way it's going to be.

But that isn't the problem.

The problem is that in order for Phase II to work, it is essential to have a cooperation of leading leaders.

Or, either that, or we have to go to a total compulsory control program.

Job owning alone will not work.

So if you say, well, we don't have the cooperation of labor, then we'll show it.

All right, then.

All right, what was the next step?

Well, then, Mom said, we'll send a public board.

And the public board will, rather than the penny board, will tell labor how much you can have.

And we should turn back some of these deferred wage increases.

And we should break the auto.

In other words, the auto debt was too high.

Turn it back.

We'll seal it.

I said, all right, Mom.

So they said, what do you do?

Well, I don't know, let's just go to the country we live in.

If we live in an economy still, we're not going to be able to do that.

So, what are we doing?

What we have to do is to take, not a perfect situation is going to be that.

Labor is going to, they're going to stick us through some things.

But, on the other hand, as George Falls pointed out, take Canadian experiences.

And the Canadian experience is typical of every country that has tried guidelines for a job.

It has never worked unless labor is participating.

Canada couldn't get labor to participate if it broke down in a year.

Now, we have labor participating.

This doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.

But lack of a totally compulsory program, labor now has the responsibility for us to follow that.

And so instead of having the next time out of 15% of Greece, we make it 8% of Greece.

And that's a hell of a difference.

Right.

And I think that's what can also, I think that the alternative, according to a controlled economy, to the Islam.

No, I don't think it has taken as far as where people are buying.

Well, you'd have black markets after World War II, and during all of that, you'd have the unknown.

I think what you've come up with is the only viable solution.

Now, it is what it is.

I noticed that many said it's supposed to be in this portion.

It has to be.

I think the funding was, in a nonsense, good because it raised...

It puzzled some people, I think, that night.

But by the time Conley got through the next day, one fact that they came through on that is there still will be some form of wage price controls here.

And I suspect that's all that was communicated.

They don't know what the price for it is.

Probably couldn't care less about what it weighs.

Something's there and it will continue and by God it's probably going to work.

And I think what you did so effectively was to say it'll only work with you.

If you don't do it, then all things... One of the things that... One of the things that...

I feel we may be...

We're starting to get some good numbers now, too.

Wow.

We can't go better this month on the CPI.

We get the wholesale price index, which I pulled again last night.

It was very, very good.

That will retract itself in two or three months on the CPI.

The CPI this month would be good, and I think it would be good in that month, too.

So this time, we're trying to fire somebody.

Wow.

Until they go to the monthly thing.

I don't think that's a four-month thing.

It seems to be up to that, because we got wholesale price.

We kept it to the...

Well, you know, he's a statistician, so our soul is, you know, what you can do with pictures.

And they are, that's unbelievable.

You know, Mr. President, when I started, we were talking about the confidence of the BLS and the census, because he will give you that very much.

How about talking about it?

No, seriously, how about you?

You know, all of that.

And let's just say this.

This is a question.

We have a bunch of

running these things.

And I said, I don't want anybody here to lie to me.

As I said, I told Chuck and I told Alderman and all my people, I don't want anybody to lie to me about the poll.

It was bad news a long time ago.

It was good news a long time ago.

But I don't want, and I don't want my statisticians out of here

to fake the numbers, I don't think.

And also, it's very important for me to know, however, that they are, that they are competent enough, that I can soundly rely on them.

I know that this isn't anything, you know, you have a plan of this, and it's totally a pull.

Well, I mean, it's a pull, and the unemployment, hey, they'll, they'll keep up that number, they'll grow within a few years, and it's understandable.

What is the work portion of it?

I don't know what the hell the workforce is, but I ain't protected.

And I ain't protected.

No one can ever tell you how many people were really temporary or just in for a period of time.

And they say they've got hours cut off, and yet they have to run until the end.

I think you just want to think about what we're talking here, which would be how wise a person would be on your mind.

But let me suggest, like Senator Segal, I think,

You wouldn't want the ambassador to proceed before those poor bachelors come in.

That's the worst job.

Thank you, thank you.

But why is this?

Like Calhoun, when they say they're going to abolish all ambassadors.

Right.

I really believe the serious thing is depressing.

Because I think, as often as not, they go, they, certainly the professional staff, tends to go native.

And they're not going to come to represent the other country.

All in the spirit of saying, look how well I get on with these people.

Oh, yeah.

And then come back, this massive, I don't know how you can get the truth out of it.

We don't get the truth until we go after it and find our own.

Right.

Here's what I'd like to hear.

I'd like some help on what you forget.

I don't actually get to go back to that.

Let me say, I don't want to fix it.

I don't want it in common.

But there must be a high, there must be some highly intelligent people that we can feed into BLS and into Congress.

We need both places to come in.

Now, you've got a pretty good man in Congress, and you're getting some others.

And this is not a reflection on the honesty of the people.

I think that

I think that in some cases that, I don't really know.

What do you think, Joe?

I don't think they're professionally competent.

I don't think they're out to the top of the heap.

But in your business, your business, there must be, couldn't you say, we need a competent man?

Right.

Or two.

Or a woman.

Please.

And remember, I said woman.

I say man.

Sir, I'm planning to do that thing.

Well, sir, what about a woman?

Excuse me.

You've got to be able to place the same record in each sign out.

Well, the difficult part, really, in that whole area, and I don't want to get into too much, but Lou was talking about this before.

Number one, they have a particular technique of doing business, and it will never change.

There is absolutely...

There's so much subjective judgment that goes into the patrolling technique.

It has a pretty fair judgment.

It counts in the school.

You know, I just don't... Chuck can tell you, I just saw something in there.

I said, if anybody, this was a census thing, I said, if anybody did that for the end of the term, you'd have this really bad.

Yeah, just like you were telling me, you may have somebody say what I was thinking.

You might have somebody in your organization, or you may have somebody that's, you might have a competitor.

That's true.

You know, that's what I'm saying.

You know, I mean, there are some things they didn't dare, some of the incompetent people who got them.

People wonder why presidents deal with so few.

And the reason is not only that you can't trust many people, but also that most of them, frankly, aren't smart enough.

They just aren't smart enough.

I mean, how in the world, I heard this from Chuck, how in the world can you have a four-month running efforts to measure the impact of something that began on Office 15?

That's what we did with the recipient.

You can't do that.

Well, I know that was a fake.

It was not accurate.

We knew prices had been frozen.

And people were adherent.

Did you know that 93% is the indication of adherence?

You can't have 93% with clients and price go up 4%.

It cannot be.

There's no way, is there?

And who could want to have gone up all that much?

That was not, of course, the goal.

But it wasn't perfect.

It was just absolutely divine.

It was a mad figure.

You know, Dr. Keller, Georgetown, has been running his own employment study.

And he's always above the US figures on the overall, because he factors in unemployed people who can't work.

And so he always has a big look at our figures since he was eight.

The significant thing about tele-speakers is that for the past five months, he has shown a steady two tenths, one percent, per month.

So it's just somebody, a senator, totally heated.

But some of it had to do with less people staying in town.

And then what they do, they come back to you and say, I'm sure they've done this, but how can we change the trend lines here?

You see, if you go to another measure, you throw out all this.

And that's the ultimate, in my judgment, of bureaucratic dictation.

Because they say we've had this for 10 years, and you can throw it out no matter how bad it is.

Then you have no basis.

We're getting away with those things.

We're getting on the field of my heart.

It's terrifying.

You live and die by these damn numbers.

Every night you fight about them and say, oh, well, that's bad, and it's good, and so forth.

— 5 min 20 s with no transcribed speech —

But now, that's only half the story.

The other half of the story is what you've done.

You've moved consecutively now, and we haven't got to read on some of them in Moscow, and certainly with the- I did that actually yesterday because I heard you were coming in today.

They wanted me to do it today, I'll check.

I understood you were pushing it up the other end.

The economic policy, to a degree, which has got a literate policy, and these are the people who respond most of all to it as fast as the other people are wading through their pocketbooks in a sense to prove and finally say how it's working.

These are people who can see the thrust of what they might be doing.

And then there's some thing.

Let me say, let me interrupt you for one moment about the summer thing.

The kind of one is more exciting because it's like going to the moon.

In terms of long term, it is, of course, it is messable and more important.

In terms of the immediate, the short term, the Soviet thing, of course, is infinitely more important.

For example, the Soviet thing involves

and actually Europe, you know, where we cool them to a brilliant present, which we could play at children's parties.

But, as I'm sure you realize, we're not, we're not saying this because there are too many deals.

The very fact that we're heading to Europe has a restraining effect on many situations, you know, and that's terribly important because the Russians, in our view, are not about to cause us trouble

or want to go down with the United States at any place in the world.

So, in other words, the Russian summit will be Montana.

And that, of course, overall, is the enormous problem of ours, where we'll have agreement.

So the Russian summit is going to be something that is not good, I would think.

No, I think a lot of people will see it.

I was over there recently, and I thought it would just be the Russian summit.

I must say, we can never say this to them, but the China thing is just working miracles.

It really is incredible because they've been in it a while.

They've never said that to any of the Americans.

As a matter of fact, I used to die when I was president, so I'll just show you.

They just disarmed them and pulled their teeth when they started up and said, look, here's the area of present U.S.-US-US relations.

I said, that's this big.

Now the President, at least in American terms, took a very radical step by establishing U.S.-China relations way out here

I said, what does this mean?

He said, what this means is the potential in terms of now latitude for U.S.-Soviet relations.

the gap in between here, you've now increased the possibilities in terms of what the American people will allow for us to do from this small area here to all of this area here, you see.

And this really stopped.

I mean, I must have used it four times and said, now you've got this great thing in the rest of the area that you didn't have before, and you people ought to welcome it.

Or I welcome it rather than be worried about it, you see.

And, uh, they really did.

I never saw the Russians beat the...

They're, uh, aren't they...

They're all being...

It won't be in the Bible.

It's over.

Uh, I know that they're all in the room.

I understand.

All right, sir.

This is a million degrees.

But I think they, well, let me just say this on that.

I also went to Israel earlier this year, and they've been touching me since Goldmire's people.

I think it strikes me that they

won't yield on the cease and desue evidence.

I don't know if they can get on the deal, but I don't think so.

I think what they would buy, I think, is a US-Russian agreement on no fighting if the terms of the political settlement are allowed to be worked out between them.

We're not sticking over their shoulder, obviously, but over the same period of time.

And I think, my sense, I did not talk to Russians about the Middle East, but my sense of their deep desire to defuse any tensions with the West, they're very blunt about saying they're in deep trouble with China.

They just held out no hope for any kind of accord between themselves and the Chinese, very blunt about it.

And they're not about to have a double trouble on that, from the West and from the East at the same time.

And I think they'll do, I think they'll do damn near anything as long as they can save face on to come to some kind of solution.

But I think that's right.

And I think I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that.

I mean, I'd say, okay, look, they made games.

at least they're not going to make the all-in-the-game training.

I think the degree to which we're talking, telling, and saying, look, we'll match you if necessary, the degree to which I don't understand it, I have very much this feeling they would like to work with us in Southeast Asia.

This is one of the greatest strides they've taken.

They do not want our presence out of Southeast Asia.

They're very clear about that.

Even though he went saying, we'd like you back in Pakistan.

We'd like you back in Pakistan.

We'll back India together.

We might keep China out.

This was the head of the department.

This was the man who went down there negotiating with the Maoist communists.

I had a very, very interesting thought.

I had a very good talk with him.

And I thought this was...

very revealing because they said, well, we know how far you can go with China.

We're not too worried about that.

We know what you can give.

And they said, the only place they'd like is out in Thailand and Korea, but they said, we know you're not going to leave there.

They like Malaysia.

They're worried about Burma.

They like us somehow being around for that.

They're worried about Indonesia.

The Chinese and Japanese control it.

They're worried about the Japanese and Chinese.

They're worried about the Japanese.

They're worried about the Chinese.

I don't know if they're putting me on or not in this, but they say they're worried about a Japanese-Chinese deal being out of the bottom of the world.

And they see economic reasons why they might get together, which China can shorten 20 years in five years.

Japan is a big market place for raw materials.

But they also said in Southeast Asia, they're colliding because

Mao, I told this chap I talked to, he said, within 10, 15 years, we must control all of Southeast Asia.

And the Japanese, he said, they can't go west without banging on the United States.

They can't come east without banging on them.

The only place they can go is Japanese and Southeast Asia.

Therefore, they don't have a coincidence of interest.

The Japanese do a billion dollars in Taiwan as well.

But they're going to go to trade mission, I guess it's

Now they know they're real and saying a trade mission to Tokyo or they want to take up the slack that they think the Japanese will have from the U.S. Two billion dollars in trade established right away in Russia.

This would indicate they are very much trying to save $2,000 in trade with Japan, for which they'll pay dearly.

I mean, copper developed in eastern Siberia, where the fact that it will be all Japanese technology for Russian raw materials for their country, that's a whole great deal for the Japanese.

The Japanese are going to take it really clean, exactly, in terms of the Japanese trade.

Well, let me, can I?

Sure, sure, sure.

Mr. President, I think the most, it's a funny thing.

Let me ask you this.

Do you feel that these things, you know, I was rather interested in, people said, well, China is such a big deal, and that changes the attitudes of people, the policy of the Soviet Union.

I have this feeling.

that as you look at polls and so forth, they'll change it much.

It may change the mix, but isn't there a situation that occurs, and I'm going to read it for a moment, that after we have a look at this country today, that if you look at the media, and I won't say this in a complaining way, just by way of observation,

And, you know, we're sort of in a psychology of, you know, knocking estimates and everything, going to hell, and nobody can be president, and the United States does everything wrong, and, Jesus, let's have a change, and we need leadership, and where's the star, and all that sort of thing.

You see my final, and I wonder, I wonder if, as a matter of fact, if, if, if the, uh,

if the presidential standing did not make sure the president against another individual, then maybe it would turn out fairly well.

But I wonder if presidential standing in the country is ever going to prove it.

President, I've got to think.

I don't know if it will make you feel better or not, but I have to tell it to you because it shows really.

What's the essence of the problem we've got?

It's not an individual one, but it's also one that's done here, something we did in 1966.

Why we haven't done it since, I don't know, but it was the degree of respect that people have for about 20 different types of leaders in various fields, including executive ranks, governments, Supreme Court, doctors, educators, masters, institutions, leaders of these various institutions.

And the results are really, well, they're both shocking in there.

And the only solace you can take is that there's been a lesser drop in confidence in negative brainstorming than there has across the board in this country.

At the top of the list are doctors, who were 72%, a great deal of respect, and now down to 64.

Educators, who dropped from 61 to 37 in five years.

Bankers, in financial years, 67 to 36.

Religious leaders, 41 to 27.

Businessmen, big drop, 55 to 27.

Military leaders, 62 to 27.

Scientists, 56 to 32, drop.

These are huge.

Executive branch for 56 to 71, got them five years.

That's the story.

See?

Then they all established.

All established.

Executive branch, government, 41 to 22.

Supreme Court, 51 to 22.

Then you get Congress from 42 to 19, way down.

Then you get the press, 29 to 18, and they're rated high, and they're still lower.

And down at the very bottom, you get labor union leaders, 22% respect.

You need 66 to 14 now.

Very interesting.

But what this shows is that we've had, since 66, a general loss of feeling about the economy.

Is it possible for anybody to be president?

Is that really the problem?

No, I think it is.

Because we're considered a big place.

Not that we did it for that reason, but we just have to be here because of the combination of certain chances.

This is the time it has to be done.

The United States had to make this move, and I was the one that had to do it.

We had to make the Russian move, and I was the one that had to do it.

And of course, we have a war on the way to do other things.

for a reasonable time, but I wonder if it makes any difference.

I wonder if as far as the country is concerned, what is your feeling as it did?

Well, I think as far as he said, we can end the bank with it as far as we are responsible.

I don't necessarily think that would make any difference.

I mean, go ahead.

I always believed, and I don't even, just believe that survival is man's basic instinct and that the American people haven't survived as much as anybody.

So that's peace.

Yeah, that's peace, basically.

That's right.

Which has got to be the most important issue, in my judgment.

Now, why didn't you get a more immediate response from China?

You see, we find, this is coming out as I think it's a week from Monday, you've gone, in July, 48 to 64% who give positive marks on working for peace in the world.

Now, the only reason this happened, I'm absolutely convinced it did, like John Tyne did, was, well, this is the China thing, but why would it happen immediately?

Well, I think the reason was there's a lead-acre weight in this economic problem.

that dragged it down and didn't let it surface.

Now, on the economy, I think you really should have no illusions about that.

I don't think that's an issue that will ever work for you in 1972.

I think what you'll do is at best neutralize the issue, but when you neutralize it, you let a whole lot of other things come to the surface, like quarks rising up, the main one of which is

Which is the highest point.

And the other thing is that it's very much to our, and to the interests of whoever is here, is to emphasize the strong issue, the peace issue.

Right.

And just have a defensive action on the other issue.

That's right.

So they're thinking about the peace issue, maybe not about the other issue.

It's not a very interesting statistical analysis that...

shows that the two balance each other off, and the positive and negative is generally conditioned to .

And the result is that in the positive negative, it's the highest since March of 70s, which comes out next week.

You're absolutely right about that.

But most of it is wrong.

But we can have both of them.

I know it's fine.

I'm too late.

I started getting the news.

Go ahead.

I'll give you one result.

Mr. President, this is a study that you called me about.

These are just the details.

Now, the best news, I'll be working all weekend, uh, writing it up, but one thing which I want to show you is, uh, is on the, uh, who's playing the lesson?

This one is just back.

Lesson one.

And the question is, who do they plan to be most responsible for blessing the chief racial balance?

The choice they have, the President, Congress, state local school officials, U.S. Supreme Court, or all, or none.

Top of the list, Supreme Court, 36%.

State and local school officials, 28%.

People say they should have stopped it, and they're doing it.

You see, and they're the ones, of course, that are firing at it in the city.

Right.

Congress, 9%, the President, 12%.

Oh, seven, seven, I'm sorry.

Seven, and all four, but the 12 is Deep South, that's what's in my mind.

Deep South is 12, but that's still 16 in Congress, only 11.

There's four levels.

You take the least, the least responsible.

Well, you know, the thing that let me say, I'm glad Scott, he's rather like it.

I mean, I don't like it that well, but it's very like it.

18% sit in prison.

So you're really, to a degree, got a metal headlight.

The thing I was trying to say about that, what we all have to understand, and I'll tell you, John, the whole black-white issue, at least let me tell you my feeling about that.

what i think about the muskie uh straight uh vice president as i said he just may have said it totally candid and so forth and so on but i again say that if you analyze it carefully it is quite true that if it's unpopular to put a black on his vice president saying that it's unpopular no right no absolutely that's the gentleman

Here's the reason it can't be said.

It can't be said, even if you thought it was true, it can't be said about that story.

And the reason it can't be said is that beneath the surface is a hell of a lot of racism and religious antagonism in this country, and that's also there.

There's anti-Catholicism and anti-Semitism, and there's a hell of a lot of anti-violent, and all that.

The moment the public figure says

I'll become that this, all he does is reach for it all.

So therefore, you must, that doesn't mean that you say, well, there is none.

Then you just say, yes, there is prejudice, but I believe a qualified man can win.

Now, in my case, I didn't say it for a reason.

I didn't brook on a ticket.

Brook on a ticket, on balance, would not hurt.

And he would help in a lot of states, he would hurt some.

What's his name?

Ralph Lutz.

Ralph Lutz was the only guy to beat Javits.

Well, you know, Chicago said that when I was in 68 and I was in Chicago, I said something that you couldn't have done.

You couldn't put a Jew on the table and put an artery and so forth and alter everything.

This one was set at all.

I remember it very well.

The specific question had to do with chance.

And I said, well, first of all,

chad said what i'm doing i mean he doesn't chad did not believe himself he said i i'm a senator and so forth and he said this is not going to happen and the other the other question was related to which is a theory of mine i do not believe in taking balance you know i think the vice president has got to be has got to be he doesn't have to be a 100 in

philosophical tandem with the president.

But he came out, you kind of have a gulf between the two.

And it's, Kennedy and Johnson were about as far as you can go.

And that was tough.

That was tough.

And having anybody in the vice presidential line.

I've often said the only job of a vice president is to support the president, nothing else.

and not become an issue himself.

There's one question you asked earlier that he and I discussed, and I think it's very important, really important to keep in mind.

Well, I thank you for coming down, and let's have another talk in the mail, since you've got your analysis of those other things.

Yes, I think we've got it on very simple.

But would you like a pair of us, Bill?

Oh, thank you, sir.

You're welcome.

You are a golfer?

Well, let's hand it, you see.

Let's hand it to the golfer.

Let's hand it to the golfer, sir.

I can say, of course, sir, go.

Yes, sir.

There's your paperweight order.

You have to do not do much to add paper.

It's always, you know, get rid of the paper, not the weight.

That's right.

He's got everything you can get.

All right, sir.

All right.

Well, we'll see.

Thank you, sir.

Yes, sir.

If you'd like to come over to that for a second.

All right.

Who would you like to meet?

Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Economic Policy and Foreign Policy

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Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Economic Policy and Foreign Policy

AI Summary

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on October 13, 1971

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