Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Economic Policy and Foreign Policy

2:58Well, pretty quick, working very well.
2:59I've got a pretty idea, though, isn't he?
3:00He has a nice compromise in the future.
3:03You know, these talents have come with them.
3:08Of course, it's a hell of a deal for these people to be presented.
3:15What I think you should do is not give a six-ball butt.
3:18I think what you could do would be to invite...
3:23The wife and children to come and witness them, you see.
3:26I'll be receiving, receiving connection.
3:29And I'll say, wouldn't your dad like to come up and have a picture, you see?
3:32And meet them.
3:34And I'll drop the whole hot shot, in case.
3:37I think it would be an awfully nice time.
3:39Do they join the families now?
3:41No.
3:41Today they didn't?
3:42They never had.
3:42I see.
3:43They never had.
3:44The only one that did was the Irish, on a special day.
3:45But I really believe that the family, you know, after all, this is the highlight of the man's career, to present his credentials in the United States.
3:52Okay, we can bring a picture of it.
3:53If you get his little lessons and then say, wouldn't your family like to come over?
3:58You see what I mean?
3:58Have the whole family standing in there and end up knowing that you liked it.
4:06and have them come and they witness it and then you know and then i'll say i would you like to have a picture then come over take a picture thank you very much i wish you very much it worked fine today but i'm just thinking that it's a it's going to take one minute more one minute more we'll get through these damn things and i'll continue to do them on that basis yes but no talks no god talks to anybody something to talk about they come in this office
4:35That's the way they're gonna come.
4:39It's a good idea because it's possible.
4:41Really, it doesn't.
4:42Once you have to study up hard to do them the way you would, you won't do them super efficiently.
4:48I can't risk it.
4:49They may be asking me about something that I should know.
4:52And believe me, it's a very rough thing.
4:53But another son of a bitch isn't going to tell us anything.
4:56And they all try to.
4:56Not they all.
4:57Some of them do.
4:58But then I've got to be very careful not to have to think of something that I should say about his wife or his kids or some goddamn thing.
5:05It's not really my time.
5:09Or, and let's just not do it anymore.
5:11But the family thing is nice, don't you think?
5:15And let's not do the social one, not try to, we talked to one, Elsa having a tea, it's Elsa, that takes my time.
5:19Because then that one wants you to come back into the tea.
5:24She's always insisting on that.
5:26We've got to do it right on her day, you know.
5:28She doesn't realize, her doing it right is fine, but I haven't got the time to do it right.
5:33The family thing is fine, she just sent a picture with me, that's what they want.
5:37And then later on they can come to something else, but that way the white's in and down my house, and so forth.
5:44I just like the idea, just stay with your wife.
5:46If you want your wife, then come and then see it, too.
5:49Then we have to bring in a separate car, so he rides with the protocol officer in his car with the flags and let his family ride behind him and watch him.
5:57And then they come in and follow in and see that and then have them, too, but have them just standing over at the side while they come in.
6:05and all the whole, all the family groups of us, they arrive some of the same, and they come in.
6:11It'd be a nice touch, just a nice touch.
6:13And I call them up for a picture, and that picture is worth that whole goddamn visit by me.
6:17So, I think that's it.
6:18Thank you.
6:20Well, we do all these things extremely well.
6:22But I've just been always working on it.
6:34We've done our share of that now.
6:41We're not going to do it anymore.
6:46I checked in the afternoon.
6:47Yes, we have the system set for 8.
6:51The dinner guests flow from the parlors in, and as soon as they start going into the Eastern, then they bring the after-dinner guests in and mingle them in the small ones.
6:56They go in.
6:57They say, I'll get that right in.
6:59We don't have time to go to the after-dinner guests.
7:02They're not invited so early.
7:03They wait and wait and wait.
7:03We run a little bit of that, you know, and the goddamn toasts go too long.
7:08We have the dinner guests that are held out there.
7:14I would have a concert early.
7:15Okay, it's not too bad being held, though, either.
7:18Because it's a, they serve champagne and they have music for it downstairs.
7:22So they're at like a reception down there.
7:23Okay.
7:24I always have something I need on that shit.
7:29Yeah.
7:29I think you're right.
7:33We ought to get invited as ladies.
7:36You know, it's close to the time.
7:39But there again, I just am thinking of the use of time.
7:45And also, I don't think I should put a man like Tito, 75 years old, through that damn thing.
7:52What do you think?
7:53I agree.
7:54And that's...
7:55It takes 20 to 30 minutes to get that many hands.
7:59and do it nicely.
8:00And there are people that... Well, some of them are, and then a congressman is.
8:06You know, but most of them are administrative assistants or members of commissions or, you know, somebody that wants to go to the White House the first time.
8:14No, it's still a bunch of marginal things.
8:16It doesn't add that much more.
8:18They get 50% of it by coming, and that only adds 10% to some of them, which is terrible.
8:22Yeah.
8:30Thank you very much.
8:33I absolutely agree with that.
8:35They're there.
8:36Good.
8:36Good.
8:37Let's try that.
8:43I haven't tried that.
8:47I mean, the rose has been also bleeding.
8:52And I just want to say, well,
8:57Of course, the people have been, there's words around, we shake hands with everybody, but goddamn, we don't have to shake hands with people.
9:04The words of any congresswoman, they come, they bring all their relatives from where and there, and they want to meet the president.
9:12You know what happened last time, which I just got there, and I first of all drew a different model at the time of these gestures.
9:20I always spoke briefly to them.
9:25But definitely they didn't have a whole choir come through the water.
9:27They had a choir of 15.
9:29Now, God damn it, all that had to have some kind of plans.
9:3115, that's, you know, a whole choir of people.
9:36Oh, I'll go to another one.
9:37I'm going to get you to take a look, too, just so I didn't know.
9:41But you can see the point, Bob.
9:42That's the kind of thing that's a waste.
9:44Now, when I go shake hands with all the drivers, that's a different thing.
9:48I mean, we're putting that in the magazine.
9:50Oh, I suppose I should shake hands with these people today, don't you think?
9:54Yes.
9:55We should just go ahead and thank for what I'm saying.
10:03I guess that's it.
10:04Yes.
10:05What are they working on?
10:06Is there just a citizens committee for?
10:10Well, don't get, don't regret talking about taking these on.
10:12Public support for our, public support for the base, for the post-freeze.
10:21Netherlands are doing the stock inflation bumper sticker business and all that.
10:27getting word out.
10:31It's important stuff.
10:34And it might help.
10:36You're right.
10:37It might help.
10:39Some people like to think it's like those letters you read.
10:41I'll give up my raise if you say it's going to help the country.
10:45There is a certain basic patriotism among a whole lot of people.
10:51Well, if they're told it's doing some good, it'd be god-darned if they're gonna give up their raises.
10:54The neighbor's gonna get a bigger one because of it.
10:57That's the reason why I got out before you.
11:06You know, the part is like the business of shaking hands with the reception and the church things.
11:14All of that
11:16Again, you can make a very good case that it was good to have done it in the beginning.
11:21Because people were watching, you know, what kind of, what's he gonna do?
11:25Is he gonna do a move?
11:27Is he gonna snare people and all that?
11:30You've established all that.
11:31And if you don't do it now, nobody's gonna know the difference, really.
11:37And they're not gonna make anything out of it.
11:41And who the hell cares?
11:43Who cares?
11:45The people there were there.
11:47They're not going to complain very much if they didn't get to shake hands.
11:50In fact, it's a pain in the ass to have to stand in that line for an hour.
11:55Which they think they have to do.
11:56Oh, Christ, yes.
11:58I mean, they're jammed to the whole hour.
12:01I keep talking about it.
12:02I know they don't do it in any of his live interviews.
12:06Please, please.
12:07They do.
12:07No, no, they do.
12:08But you wait there, see?
12:09You don't get in the line.
12:11You wait for a time to get in the line.
12:16Please keep watching to let us align down and out of the way.
12:18We just want to go.
12:24They do a hell of a job on that.
12:26We didn't use it.
12:28They used it just to jam them all up and make them stand there.
12:33I always feel so bad.
12:34Some people won't get out of line.
12:35See, you say, you know, please go in here and all the people say, screw you, get in line and shake his hand.
12:41They're afraid you'll cut out or tell someone to get ahead of them in the line.
12:46You watch them push in the line, too.
12:47It's unbelievable.
12:51the kind of people you have at the White House who would have the greatest of standards.
12:55I just want to get it down where the handshaking is going to be totally symbolic.
13:02I've got an audience.
13:03That's the way it should be.
13:05Now take the press side.
13:07I heard a deal that we did for Doug Carmel.
13:11That's my president.
13:13And that was symbolic as hell.
13:15Hell, a long time.
13:16Doug Carmel wrote emails.
13:18He was deeply moved by it.
13:20We should have met in Sochi.
13:23And the rest of the press were, because they saw that, you know, one of their own being treated that way, and also they were dignified people.
13:30And without any sloppers, that sort of thing, and all that such.
13:34And it didn't have to be done.
13:37Didn't try to make a big deal out of it.
13:41Did they cover that incident?
13:43Oh, yeah.
13:44I don't know anybody who wrote about it.
13:46It should have been.
13:49Of course, I wrote it before.
13:51It was a very big story here, local story, and a...
13:56I think it was a water story.
14:00It did.
14:00Oh, they did.
14:01They ran a picture.
14:04They had two or three different pictures that went down there.
14:11Awful good, very in for one hell of a time was crying, and, uh, that would kind of hook any people there to do with a good smile on their face.
14:18You know, it's, it isn't really being a sucker or anything, but, um, we, we were having a new campaign and everything else, and some of us
14:35You just don't work your butt off to the other 50 states and shake every last goddamn hand and work a 14-hour day and be sure that you're proving something.
14:46We go overboard that way.
14:48And every stinky goose thing, every block of people chairing the big states and the international chairing them say, well, they ought to be doing more and more.
14:56But I don't think they're going to say, well, I'm in this office.
14:58Do you think so?
14:59Actually, they don't say he ought to be doing more.
15:00What they say is he shouldn't be doing so much.
15:01But he should come to my state.
15:04You shouldn't go to so many cities, but you shouldn't go to our city.
15:07Or Billy Graham says, don't shake hands in the receiving line.
15:11But I'm going to add 80 more people to my reception in North Carolina, which he just did.
15:21That's fine.
15:22But if we said have as many as you want, they'd have 1,000 people in line.
15:31And it wouldn't mean anything.
15:33If you have a couple hundred, it means a great deal.
15:35The 53 things have picked up yet, have they?
15:36Yeah.
15:36Okay.
15:37We're up with some more ambassadors.
15:42The order's done.
15:43I wonder if you'd like to get him out of the way?
15:50Because I'm imagining that he's come back now.
15:59He's down there after a couple of days today, and he's landing his lady tomorrow.
16:05He's coming to land his office.
16:07I thought Landon was coming out today.
16:09It is a little bit of a problem.
16:11I can do it tomorrow if he's here.
16:13The reason is that I had to book a reception tonight.
16:18We just added a reception to the schedule.
16:20Oh, after 6.
16:20Well, I'll be busy through 6.
16:22The reception starts at 5 o'clock and 787 is those moving on.
16:29Okay.
16:29I just checked a lot.
16:31He was coming to Len's office at 6.
16:36He could get him out of the way and not have to have a special.
16:41And Len will be turning him off today.
16:46It just makes an edge on me.
16:49Does he hear anything?
16:52No.
16:52I think he may, but...
16:55Well, that's what I thought.
16:58Len could chart around.
16:59He hasn't seen any of this charting this area.
17:05breaking up about 615 or whatever you were doing with Rod.
17:09But maybe he's proud of you.
17:11There's time.
17:12I don't want to get to it.
17:14Then you've got to find a way to teach him for him.
17:18Well, he's got to be here tomorrow.
17:21Well, no, no.
17:22He's got to be coming to the last office and taking him to dinner.
17:27He's here visiting his son to get this out.
17:32Well, I'm sure you can come back.
17:34I just thought this was the easiest way to handle it from getting in and out.
17:38In a sense, you know, I think you ought to be here on your birthday.
17:43If we could work it out.
17:45Well, if they're doing anything for it in New York, I don't know whether you'd be able to find out.
17:48Well, let me ask you this.
17:50Find out who it is, if they are doing something for it, which is, and it's not even in America.
17:58They're not.
17:59It's just, it's just a hell of a thing, a nice thing for me to do.
18:02I'd be glad to see it at the scene.
18:03I, uh, I don't want to delay having it.
18:08Well, I thought if you were going to do it, I'd call her and say that he'd be over there.
18:12I can't find out if they're going to do anything lame or if nobody's going to call John Alexander or something.
18:24No problem.
18:28And there's no comment that he's coming tomorrow or next week.
18:30That's just about the reason.
18:39This you should see for about two minutes.
19:00Say thanks a hell of a lot for what you're doing standing there.
19:03These are most of the people that you know.
19:05It isn't like the racing drivers would never have seen a five president before.
19:11What did you tell them in the committee?
19:13This is the committee for the new economic policy.
19:15Citizens committee.
19:17But I don't push him on that.
19:24You're not pushing him.
19:25I'm just trying to think of what's nice with him.
19:31Well, at the age of 95, I just can't believe that it would be easy for him to make another trip to Washington.
19:36That's right.
19:36I mean, give him something.
19:40Yeah, absolutely.
19:42What about all those Eisenhower dollars?
19:47Oh, no, that's nice.
19:49I think, uh, what else?
19:50It is to other people.
19:52Those are a big deal.
19:54Well, I mean, that isn't really serving me so much, is it?
19:58Well, we've got your steel and your name on the file.
20:02Well, is there, did the money live for her?
20:03No, I wouldn't carry one.
20:05He probably just comes.
20:08What about anything else we're taking?
20:10No, let's do this.
20:12Let's see what we can do.
20:13Steve's got some good gift stuff.
20:17Give him one of the expensive ones.
20:18See, there's something very good in giving one something around $20, $25 a gift.
20:20Okay.
20:20Would you do that?
20:22Okay.
20:24And Rose, why don't you come up to this and get a nice thing?
20:28I don't want Len to get into the courtroom with me.
20:38He's written me a long memorandum, you know, about my name.
20:44Certainly.
20:46Well, it isn't that.
20:47It's along those lines, and you know what I mean.
20:49The liberal left wing get treated in order and so forth, as well as the outstanding church.
20:58And I'm just not going to do it.
21:00I could hold it for the next few months.
21:02No, no, no.
21:03You see what my role is.
21:05And I think if it's church socially, I just want the church to discuss.
21:15You and Pat pulled out for a woman in North Lansing.
21:19Yeah, I've got a Negro woman that everybody thinks of me as.
21:24Have you?
21:25Yeah.
21:26Jewel La... Yeah, the one from Alabama?
21:27Yeah.
21:28She's a beautiful Negro.
21:30Yeah.
21:31And she's an attorney in Chicago.
21:34She's a judge, isn't she?
21:36She's a judge.
21:37She ran for judge.
21:38She ran for judge.
21:39She knows pretty well who she is.
21:44Joe says she's real great.
21:45She'll die in the Republican, which is, you can't say that very many.
21:50She is a Republican.
21:51Oh, yeah.
21:52She ran for the appellate's court, or some court that you're talking about.
21:55She's head of our, she was on some committee or head of something.
21:58All right.
21:59She was on one of our side meetings.
22:01Yeah.
22:01If Marshall goes, I've got to put her in his job.
22:05That's a good one.
22:09Oh, really?
22:11Really, my view is this.
22:12What I do with women, which may come in some manner or another, by God, I'm going to get one that at least is, I can't get a conservative view, but I'm going to get one that is bad, not bad, where I can get a syndicated, so you get a law degree, so you get your due and your black belt and ranks, but the blind vote is the same thing.
22:33And the toast and the bad liver people.
22:35Gross.
22:38Now, I don't want to push that.
22:39You're not pushing it at all.
22:40If you could let me bring him up at, say, 615, tell Pat that he's just coming up to say hello, have a little give there that we can get him.
22:48And I will mention it right on then, and I'll step out and say hello in any ten minutes they should leave.
22:58You know what I mean?
23:00So, don't you think that's a good idea?
23:03Then you see, you could be there on...
23:06Good.
23:07That's good.
23:09That's good.
23:11We have a solution tonight.
23:14We should.
23:25I mean, it's not something that's so obvious to go over for so much longer.
23:30It's not a private position.
23:32It's not a private position.
23:33But at 95, I just don't think he probably is up to taking very many trips down.
23:37And if you're having to come down, especially, you have to spend more than 10 minutes.
23:41Well, I'll be coming up to get a picture.
23:43Yes.
23:43Great.
23:43Have all of you give the viewers a lot.
23:45We're going to have to find out what gift we got.
23:48Yes, I will.
23:55Both of those things cut down.
24:12Do you know what you realize?
24:31And next year, as I told you, I'm not going to have any state visits.
24:38That's just not happening because of the China-Russian thing.
24:42We told them, unless it's Europe, unless we have to do something for the Europeans.
24:48Guess what?
24:49I'm still forcing America to do it for the Europeans.
24:51It's about some of the deal.
24:52You know, let me hear you now.
24:59I hope it does.
25:00Is that it?
25:00Could we do that?
25:02Well, yeah.
25:03The president had a great talk with the regime there, and it was just a committee.
25:06Oh, I think.
25:07No.
25:07I think he was back asking for another meeting, so I don't know who you are.
25:10Oh.
25:11No.
25:11I never know what it is you're up to on that.
25:18But, uh, maybe because, uh,
25:36We'll try to work out this perception that way, shall we?
26:11I just found that they...
26:33The border section.
26:35Well, really, anybody can do it.
26:36But, you know, somebody that I know 30 years ago, 100 years ago in my house would have come up and said, you know, we invite very, you know, second-level people to that, which is wonderful.
26:47But they shouldn't be taking my time when I've got a first-level person to be talking to, right?
26:55We're awfully good at this, though.
26:56You stop and think.
26:58Christ and the Eisenhardt, they had that same plaque all the time.
27:01Jesus Christ, we had had everybody.
27:03We'd had White House staff, we'd had some of this.
27:07You know, the only one that I'd heard of was that guy.
27:12And we covered the staff, and we have every damn person there is.
27:16We've got good coverage.
27:17The conference, we moved it around in the conference field instead of just saying,
27:32I don't have a...
27:34I've got a call in here tomorrow, and I've got to get Henry tomorrow, and I said, oh, yeah.
27:59I mean if you can't, if you finally get out of that camp, who would be good?
28:03I'll prep myself.
28:05This time of year, you know, the weather's good.
28:06That's, uh, all right.
28:07You can be honest with me.
28:09That's the person who put her on.
28:11How are you?
28:12How are you doing, please?
28:13Oh, I'm fine.
28:14Oh, did you see that?
28:15Did you see that wearing an arm since you got here?
28:19Well, yeah.
28:21Well...
28:22It's good to see you.
28:22We have a lovely day today.
28:23I'm going to tell you a secret about your ambassadors.
28:25I told them they're not coming this way all the time.
28:28I'm going to sit over here.
28:30You can sit here.
28:34That's what we call a practice.
28:37This is an honor.
28:38And every time anybody has to get plugged up there, I point out...
28:45One of the guys that sat in that chair, I mean, he's been happy to be home since then, so really.
28:54Poor guy.
28:54I don't know which one of those little countries it was, but there was one out there.
29:01Well, I want to tell you that I've been very grateful for your talking to Chuck Mercer from time to time and giving him some of your...
29:15analysis of this political stuff.
29:19I didn't follow the polls as well as I probably should.
29:26But on the other hand, one of the things that I'm particularly interested in in your polling techniques is that you attempt to
29:40to get something other than some of the obvious answers.
29:46In other words, you try to dig beneath why, and so forth and so on.
29:51And I always felt, myself, that a pole is not a pole saying, well, what you before, and so forth and so on.
30:04It's susceptible to enormous variations
30:11unless you analyze why, what's motivating and so forth, the depth of support and so forth.
30:21And I thought, too, another interesting thing, I was rather curious, you had mentioned to Chuck the fact that you thought that, you know, phase two, it should not be, I'd say, the same level of intensity as phase one, right?
30:34There were some people who felt there was a continuation.
30:39as you probably know that we i was no i mean as i wrote that speech i used to continue yes
30:55I had talked to you yesterday, obviously, but I thought that Fitz had played such a role.
30:59Was there anybody else there that helped out?
31:02People were, you know, Fitz, for anybody, was that Gable was all right?
31:05Was Gable was fine?
31:06Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow.
31:09I mean, we need those fellows to cooperate, and that's been for a while.
31:12They may go up in the air, you know, they may, they may, they, well, they're interested, but if they let us ride for four or five months,
31:19Because they're standing, the American people, expresses that I think that's why they did this.
31:24That's why they came along.
31:25We have ample evidence on two things.
31:28One, that they don't have the support of their own membership on this position to defy you on it.
31:37I don't think they're opposed.
31:40Number two, that they
31:43Would you like a tea or a coffee or a Coke?
31:45I'd like a tea to achieve this.
31:48The reputation is not that good in terms of leadership.
31:54I've got something coming out on that.
31:58It's very interesting.
32:01Their view on their own numbers is more manipulators than they are dedicated, more manipulators.
32:09selfish interests than they are, and they don't look at it as their selfish, their rank and file selfish, because they think the leaders somehow are pushing their own interests here, than they are public spirits.
32:21So the last area I should think that leaders in labor can stand up successfully would be to affect the financial policy.
32:32uh what seems to be with their ownership makes it good for the country i think i have great trouble in saying but we oppose it uh they may have been involved on a particular wage demand or a particular you know strike or or collective bargaining situation but uh i doubt that you know i think the crunch on this will come and the way i see it is
32:57When the particular union that's frozen in right now, which has the inordinate demand, capital, maybe it's construction, maybe it's job, whoever, comes in and they say, well, let's give it to them.
33:12At that point, I don't think the rest of labor is going to support that union.
33:17I think I calculated that.
33:19And I'm right, because they'd say, that's just going to ruin the whole thing for everybody.
33:23There's a great, deep desire for the American people to
33:27deal, and lastly, to do something together for the common good.
33:33In other words, even though there's no war, in the sense that there was a World War II in Korea, do you think at the present time, people kind of want to be, quote, patriotic, quote, on the city?
33:48Yes, I think it's gotten so bad that they have, or they have, they place them
33:53that they feel that something's done.
33:57They've all, there isn't a person or family that hasn't suffered in this period, at least they haven't suffered one way or another.
34:08Therefore, they .
34:09They are correct in this sense.
34:10I was looking at the figures.
34:12It's quite interesting to note that while we have had, since the
34:23of the 1930s, well beginning of 1932, the Depression.
34:28While in that period of time we have had unemployment, recessions, and the rest, this is the first time, except for the many bulge, which was quite a bulge for one year at 17%, just before Korea, during Korea, this is the first time that you really had inflation problems in this country.
34:49Now, as I said, we didn't worry about inflation in the 50s.
34:53inflation in the 50s, 1%, 1.5%, 2%.
34:56In the 60s, until 67, it was around 1.5 to 61, 62, 63.
35:01Of course, that came on.
35:05Then in 68, because of the war, in 69, it continued.
35:10In 70, it began to stay at a high level.
35:15In 71, it begins to come down some.
35:22And even though the inflation in the United States is less than that of any industrial, but any of the major industrial countries, like Japan is just higher, the British is higher, the Japanese is higher, and the Italians, of course, are higher.
35:38Our people, our people, I don't know, they react to it.
35:43But yeah, I think it's the same period it fell down.
35:47Plus, all of this is relevant, you know, I remember well, I guess back in 1958, when I started to think that there's a dip in the economy, and a lot of things, Delto, people of Indianapolis, going around by foot, and I remember well, I guess I've taken you also out there.
36:03Yeah, I can show you a story.
36:05And, uh, come to see me now.
36:08It's true, I guess.
36:10It was old.
36:11Joe's?
36:11Joe's.
36:12Oh, I know who that is.
36:13I've heard stories about him.
36:14Joe.
36:15Who's Joe?
36:15Joe, I don't know.
36:16He just cut.
36:16I mean, just overworked.
36:20Yeah.
36:20You know, I mean, it's so intense.
36:23So Joe is.
36:24Absolutely.
36:25Go ahead.
36:25I know that there's been an amazing event, which, you know, it's changed just one little bit, but these fellas were worried about losing their television sets.
36:36They had to put them on.
36:40And the idea of losing your television set or your automobile was as bad as I recall from the Depression, you know, of losing everything.
36:48And today, if you can't say anything on a colored TV set or a washing machine, in other words,
36:55It takes not a great deal of setback for people to feel that the bottom's dropped out.
37:01It's all a relative thing, you know.
37:02That's the thing, too.
37:03It's like everybody today is borrowing up to the hilt.
37:05So everybody borrows.
37:07You've got household finance.
37:10You've got, of course, installment credit and all the rest.
37:12We've always had it.
37:12But never everybody would borrow.
37:14You buy everything on time.
37:15You buy your car on time.
37:15You buy your house on time and everything.
37:19And that's going to be a little blip upwards and you can't get the payments.
37:24That's why people are more interested in such things as interest rates.
37:30That's right.
37:31It's just that they're very sensitive.
37:35One thing that I find hard, and I'm not sure that we have found a way to ask about it, but people do not, as far as we can tell,
37:43get very large quote, devaluation dollars.
37:50They, you know, I would have bet that they would have worried more about it.
38:05But I don't think the evaluation is something that people understand.
38:09They don't think it's a loss of national pride.
38:11They just think it's something concerning the United States.
38:14It's just a bunch of little bankers who are involved in something that doesn't affect us.
38:22You were voiced this week with a show that the public attitudes on you.
38:26I was not paid.
38:27It was the first time I heard you tell us, one tomorrow.
38:29One tomorrow.
38:30In some ways, it's even better.
38:32But it really does show that the attitudes have shifted.
38:35Well, what's happening, I'll be back in, I guess this is July, I think it's 34 or 39, people did not think that you were working and doing much good.
38:49This is now reverse of 53 to 28, and we think that you're doing great.
38:57This is a tremendous ride.
39:04What about your theory that Chuck told me about, that you do have a theory that it takes six months and one day between an upturn in the economy or a recovery from a recession, or whatever you want to call it.
39:21This, of course, is rather kind of good.
39:24Before people reflected in their attitudes.
39:25Now, the line is perhaps a little longer this time.
39:28There's always the same thing.
39:29You can't come up in January and say,
39:32Yes, very.
39:32But actually, we see that tax was starting to come up.
39:35It started to come up in the fall of last year in the auto strike.
39:41Yes.
39:42And then it kind of came up in the first quarter of the 50 years when it really started to come up.
39:48I'll go as far out as present, but I just bet you that by the middle of November, it's going to be as Christmas to be the biggest thing that's free.
39:56And initially, you're missing it.
40:01You can just feel it.
40:03You can feel it in a way that's necessary for the way that some people respond.
40:07That's tomorrow's poll.
40:08After six weeks of the next administration's new economic policies, there are a dozen signs of the confidence of the American consumers on the rise.
40:15The figures are 53 to 23.
40:16And in March, there were 37 to 34.
40:18So that's the other way around.
40:20The other way around.
40:22Negative over positive.
40:24This is now.
40:25It's a very, very, it's money, money is there, sitting in these savings accounts.
40:30All people need is this turnaround in confidence.
40:33And I think the key, that's what I felt some healing about in the base student, that the key to it is that they feel what the,
40:44So obviously, kind of turn them on in phase one.
40:48It's not the drop.
40:49They got one message that... Did that get across to them?
40:55No, I think it did in a sort of delayed way.
40:58I think what you put to them that night, I thought very effectively, was this can only be done with you.
41:07And it's true.
41:09These are, these are the CDs that have, we have a very interesting thing.
41:12I mean, let me, let me regress myself.
41:15I can't for a moment here later.
41:19Oh, I guess the, yeah, I'm sure I'm sure I'm fine.
41:22Do you have one for your, for your gallery here?
41:23I'm a plus.
41:24He said, why, I was going to ask him, and he said, very good.
41:28You never listen.
41:30Listen, he said, to you.
41:35I was going to say that the campaign yesterday, we had, of course, you can imagine, a number of people, all of them, they know something about politics.
41:50They're very good at it.
41:52Oh, I would say you have to read both of them.
41:59Ronnie understood it well in their states, but from an action standpoint, Conner's got the field negative.
42:07He was born in that.
42:08Yeah, he's kind of done it.
42:09Just see what I was there to hear.
42:10See what I'm talking about.
42:11He's a great guy, Conner.
42:13Anyway, the point where it is raised, they said, and I can see it being the surface.
42:16Well, now, why do we have to take this for a pain in the rest?
42:19I mean, after all,
42:23Let's just throw it down there, because they aren't going to be with us anyway, and so forth.
42:26And then I said, now look, let me talk to you about it just a little bit further.
42:31I said, first, nobody is more aware than I am that George Gideon and Woodcock and that group are going to be against us.
42:43I said, Gideon is a dedicated partisan.
42:45And that's the way it's going to be.
42:49But that isn't the problem.
42:51The problem is that in order for a phase two to work, it is essential to have a cooperation of leading leaders.
43:02Or, either that, or we have to go to a total compulsory control program.
43:09Job owning alone will not work.
43:13So if you say, well, we don't have the cooperation of labor, then we'll show it.
43:17All right, then.
43:19All right, what was the next step?
43:21Well, then, Mom said, we'll send a public board.
43:23And the public board will, rather than the pay board, will tell labor how much he can have.
43:29And we should turn back some of these deferred wage increases.
43:31And we should break the auto.
43:33In other words, the auto debt was too high.
43:34Turn it back.
43:35We'll seal the deferred.
43:36I said, all right, Mom.
43:38So they shot it.
43:39What do you do?
43:41Well, I don't know, that's, uh, just to look at the country really, like, if we had even any economy still, we're not going to be able to do that.
43:49So, what are we doing?
43:51What we have to do is to take, not a perfect situation is going to be that.
43:56Labor is going to, uh, they're going to steer us through some things.
44:01But, on the other hand, as George Falls pointed out, take Canadian experiences.
44:05And the Canadian experience is typical of every country that has tried guidelines or a job on it.
44:12It has never worked unless labor is participating.
44:14Canada couldn't get labor to participate.
44:17It broke down in a year.
44:19Now, we have labor participating.
44:21This doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.
44:23But lack of a totally compulsory program, labor now has the responsibility to trust upon that.
44:31And so instead of having the next time out of 15% in Greece, we make it 8% in Britain.
44:39And that's a hell of a difference.
44:41And I think that's what can also, I think that the alternative, according to a controlled economy, to the Islam.
44:51No, I don't think it has taken as far as where people aren't buying.
44:55Well, you'd have to be at five markets after World War II, and during all of that, you'd have to be at another one.
45:01I think what you've come up with is the only viable solution.
45:05I noticed that many said it's supposed to be in this portion.
45:09It has to be.
45:14The funding was, in a nonsense, good because it raised...
45:31It puzzled some people, I think, that night.
45:33But by the time economy got through the next day, one fact that they came through, and that is there still will be some form of wage price controls here.
45:45And I suspect that's all that was communicated.
45:49They don't know what the price for it is.
45:52Probably couldn't care less about what it weighs.
45:54They don't know what that does.
45:56Something's there and it will continue and by God it's probably going to work.
46:05And I think what you did so effectively was to say it'll only work with you.
46:13If you don't do it, then all the things... One of the things that's interesting, too, is the critical idea we may be
46:22We're starting to get some good numbers now, too.
46:25Wow.
46:25We can't go better this month on the CPI.
46:27We get the wholesale price index, which I pulled again last night.
46:31It was very, very good.
46:32That will retract itself in two or three months on the CPI.
46:36The CPI this month would be good, and I think it would be good in that month.
46:42Don't you think so?
46:42I don't know.
46:43I don't know.
46:44I don't know.
46:45I don't know.
46:46I don't know.
46:46I don't know.
46:47I don't know.
46:47I don't know.
46:48I don't know.
46:48I don't know.
46:49to be able to figure it out.
46:51They need to just be honest with our souls, you know, what you can do with the pictures.
46:57And they are, that's unbelievable.
46:58You know, Mr. President, when I started talking about the countenance of the BLS and the census, because he will give you half of our budget.
47:06How about talking it out and running it?
47:07I mean, that's how it is.
47:08No, seriously.
47:09How can you do that?
47:10How can you do that?
47:11Well, you know, let's just say this.
47:13This is a question that you look at.
47:18We have a bunch of,
47:22running these things.
47:23And I don't want anybody here to lie to me.
47:25As I said, I told Chuck and I told Alderman and all my people, I don't want anybody to lie to me about the poll.
47:30If it's bad news, I want to correct it.
47:32If it's good news, I want to correct it.
47:34But I don't want my statisticians out of here.
47:38to fake the numbers, I don't think.
47:40And also, it's very important for me to know, however, that they are, that they are competent enough that I can soundly rely on them.
47:47I know that this isn't anything, you know, you have to find this, and it's totally a pull.
47:53Well, I know it's a pull, and the unemployment, they'll, they'll, he got that number for over a few years, but it's understandable.
47:59What is the workforce now?
48:01I don't know what the hell the workforce is, and they protect it.
48:04I can never tell you how many people were really temporary or just in for a great time.
48:09And they say they've got hours cut off, and yet they have to run until the end.
48:12I think you just want to think about what we're talking here, which would be how wise a person would be to be on your client.
48:19But let me suggest, like I said, see you at the meeting.
48:27You would want the ambassador to proceed before those poor bachelors come down.
48:32That's the worst job.
48:32Thank you, thank you.
48:33Well, I agree with you.
48:34I kind of hate when they say they're going to abolish all ambassadors.
48:38Right.
48:38I really believe it's a serious issue for us.
48:40Because I think, as often as not, they go, they, certainly the professional staff, tends to go Navy.
48:47Yeah.
48:48And represent other countries.
48:50All in the spirit of saying, look how well I get on with these people.
48:55And then you come back, this massive, I don't know how you can get the truth out of it.
49:02You don't get the truth until you go after it and find your own.
49:05Right.
49:05Here's what I'd like to hear.
49:06I'd like some help on what you could get.
49:08I don't actually get to go back to that.
49:12Let me say, I don't want to fix it.
49:14I don't want it in common.
49:17But there must be a high, there must be some highly intelligent people that we can feed into BLS and into Congress.
49:22We need to get both places coming in.
49:25Now, you've got a pretty good man in Congress, and you're getting some others.
49:30And this is not a reflection on the honesty of the people I think of.
49:35I think that in some cases that I don't really know.
49:38What do you think, Joe?
49:39I don't think they're professionally competent.
49:42I don't think they're out to the top of the heap.
49:45But in your business, your business, there must be, couldn't you say, we need a competent man?
49:52Right.
49:52Or two.
49:53Or a woman.
49:54Please.
49:55And remember, I said woman.
49:58I say man.
50:00Sir, I'm glad to hear that.
50:02Well, sir, what about a woman?
50:03Excuse me.
50:06The guy who has to replace the same record that he signed out.
50:11Well, the technical, really, in that whole area, I don't want to get me started on that, but Lou was talking about this before.
50:17They, number one, they get a particular technique of doing business, and it will never change.
50:22There is absolutely...
50:24There's so much subjective judgment that goes into the patrolling technique.
50:30It has a pretty fair judgment.
50:31It counts in the school, you know, it has judgment.
50:34I can tell you, I just saw something in there.
50:36I said, if anybody, this was a census thing, I said, if anybody did that for the unconfirmed, you'd have this really bad.
50:44Yeah, just like you were telling me, you may have somebody say what I was thinking.
50:48You might have somebody in your organization, or you may have somebody that's, you might have a bit of a competitor.
50:53Yeah, that's true.
50:54You know, that's what I'm saying.
50:55You know, I mean, this is somebody who, there are some things, there are some common people who've got it.
51:00People wonder why presidents deal with so few.
51:03And the reason is not only that you can't trust many people, but also that most of them, frankly, aren't smart enough.
51:10They just aren't smart enough.
51:11I mean, how in the world, I heard this from Chuck, how in the world can you have a four-month running efforts to measure the impact of something that began on August 15th?
51:22That's what we did with the receipt.
51:24You can't do that.
51:26Well, I know that was a fake.
51:28It was not accurate.
51:29Can you refute that?
51:31We knew prices had been frozen.
51:33And people were here.
51:34Did you know that 93% is the indication of adherence?
51:37You can't have 93% with clients and price go up 4%.
51:43It cannot be.
51:44There's no way.
51:46And who could want to have gone up all that much?
51:49That was not, of course, the goal.
51:52But it was just an absolutely different line.
51:54It was a mad figure.
51:56You know, Dr. Keller, Georgetown, has been running his own unemployment study.
52:02And he's always above the U.S. figures on the overall, because he factors in unemployed people who can't work.
52:13And so he always has a big look at our figures since he was eight.
52:16The significant thing about tele-speakers is that for the past five months he has shown a steady two-tenths, one percent, per month.
52:28So it's just, some of you, and some of you are totally heated.
52:35It's similar to how bus people think.
52:37And then what they do, they come back to you and say, I'm sure they've done this, but how can we change the trend lines here?
52:44You should go to another measure.
52:46You throw out all this.
52:48And that's the ultimate, in my judgment, of bureaucratic dictation.
52:50Because they say we've had this for 10 years and you can throw it out no matter how bad it is.
52:58Then you have no basis.
53:02So getting away with those things and getting on the field of my heart, it's terrifying.
53:05In fact, the latest on it, he even wrote this to me.
53:10He said, Brian, you live and die by these damn numbers.
53:13That's right.
53:13Every night you fight about them and say, oh, well, that's bad and it's good and so forth.
58:37But now, that's only half the story.
58:39Half the other half of the story is what you've done.
58:43You've moved consecutively now, and we haven't got to read on some of them in Moscow, and certainly it would be- I did that actually yesterday because I heard you were coming in today.
59:00They wanted me to do it today, I'll check.
59:02I just did your question.
59:07The economic policy, to a degree, which has got a literate policy, and these are the people who respond most of all to it as fast as the other people are winging their pocketbooks in a sense to improve the funding and say how it's working.
59:25These are people who can see the thrust of what they might be doing.
59:30And then there's the summing thing.
59:33Let me say, let me interrupt you for one moment about the summer thing.
59:39The China one is more exciting because it's like going to the moon.
59:46In terms of long-term, it is, of course, it is possible that more important.
59:54In terms of the immediate, short-term, the Soviet thing, of course, is infinitely more important.
1:00:01For example, the Soviet thing involves
1:00:04And actually, you know, where we cool them to the brim, which we could play a joke on, but I'm sure you realize we're not saying this because there are too many deals.
1:00:20The very fact that we're having this has a restraining effect on many situations.
1:00:26That is terribly important because the Russians, in our view, are not about to cause us trouble.
1:00:33or want to go down with the United States at any place in the world.
1:00:40So, in other words, the Russian summit will be Montana.
1:00:42And that, of course, overall is the enormous problem of ours, where we'll have agreement.
1:00:48So the Russian summit is going to be something that is not good, I would think.
1:00:56You know, I think a lot of people see it.
1:00:58I was over there recently, and I know you've just been to Russia.
1:01:03I must say, we can never say this to them, but the China thing is just working miracles.
1:01:10It really is incredible because they didn't have any priority or said that to any Americans.
1:01:20As a matter of fact, I used to die when I was president, so just to show you what it's like.
1:01:28They just disarmed them and pulled their teeth when they started up and said, look, here's the area of present U.S.-US-US relations.
1:01:40I said, that's, that's, that's, it's this big.
1:01:46Now the President, at least in American terms, took a very radical step by establishing U.S.-China relations way down here
1:02:00in a radically local way.
1:02:02In fact, he's the only man who could have done it probably in the White House without getting impeached for going this far.
1:02:09I said, what does this mean?
1:02:12He said, what this means is the potential in terms of now the latitude for US-Soviet relations
1:02:23the gap in between here, you've now increased the possibilities in terms of what the American people will allow for us to do from this small area here to all of this area here, you see.
1:02:37And this really stopped.
1:02:39I mean, I must have used it four times and said, now you've got this great thing in the rest of the area, which you didn't have before, and you people ought to welcome it.
1:02:47Or I welcome it rather than be worried about it, you see.
1:02:52And, uh, they really did.
1:02:54I never saw the Russians.
1:02:55They're, uh, aren't they?
1:02:56They're all being, won't be in no fight, but it's over.
1:03:04Uh, I know that they're all in the room.
1:03:10Understand?
1:03:11All right, sir.
1:03:14This is a million three.
1:03:16But I think they, well, let me just say this on that.
1:03:23They also went to Israel earlier this year, and I'll say they've been touching me since Goldmire's people.
1:03:36I think it strikes me that they...
1:03:40won't yield on us east of the Suez.
1:03:43I don't know if they can get them to go, but I don't think so.
1:03:52I think what they would buy, I think, is the US-Russian agreement on no fighting if the terms of the political settlement are allowed to be worked out between them without sticking over their shoulder, obviously, but over the same period of time.
1:04:10And I think, my sense, I did not talk to Russians about the Middle East, but my sense of their deep desire to defuse any tensions with the West, they were very plump about saying they were in deep trouble with China.
1:04:21They just held out no hope for any kind of accord between themselves and the Chinese, very plump about it.
1:04:27And they're not about to have a double trouble on that, from the West and from the East at the same time.
1:04:39And I think they'll do, I don't think they'll do damn near anything as long as they can save face on to come to some kind of solution.
1:04:51But I think that's right.
1:04:52And I think I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that.
1:04:58I mean, I say, okay, look, they make games.
1:05:01at least they're not going to make the ultimate game of training.
1:05:07Right, obviously.
1:05:08Right.
1:05:09I think the degree to which we're talking, telling, and saying, look, we'll match you if necessary, the degree to which I don't understand it, I very much just feel like they would like to work with us in Southeast Asia.
1:05:25This is one of the greatest strides they've taken.
1:05:29They do not want our presence out of Southeast Asia.
1:05:34I'm very clear about that.
1:05:36Even though you might say, we'd like you back in Pakistan.
1:05:38We'd like you back in Pakistan.
1:05:40We'll back India together.
1:05:41We might keep China out.
1:05:43This was the head of the department.
1:05:45This was the man who was down there negotiating with the Maoist communists.
1:05:50I had a very, very interesting thought.
1:05:54I thought this was...
1:05:56very revealing because they said, well, we know how far you can go with China.
1:06:02We're not too worried about that.
1:06:04We know what you can give.
1:06:06And they said, the only places they'd like us out are Thailand and Korea, but they said, we know you're not going to leave there.
1:06:17They like Malaysia.
1:06:19They're worried about Burma.
1:06:20They're worried about Burma.
1:06:22They like us somehow being around for that.
1:06:24They're worried about Indonesia.
1:06:25The Chinese and Japanese control it.
1:06:28They're worried about the Japanese and Chinese.
1:06:31They're worried about the Japanese.
1:06:32They're worried about the Chinese.
1:06:36I don't know if they're putting me on or not in this, but they say they're worried about it.
1:06:42They said the Japanese-Chinese deal would mean having a bomb in the world.
1:06:49And they see economic reasons why they might get together, which China can short in 20 years, in five years.
1:06:56Japan is a big market place for raw materials.
1:07:00But they also said in Southeast Asia, they're colliding because
1:07:06Mao, I told this chap, I talked to him, he said, within 10, 15 years, we must control all of Southeast Asia.
1:07:13And the Japanese, he said, they can't go west without banging on the United States.
1:07:16They can't come east without banging on them.
1:07:19The only place they can go is Japanese and Southeast Asia.
1:07:23Therefore, they don't have a coincidence of interest.
1:07:27The Japanese do a billion dollars in Taiwan as well.
1:07:31But they're going to go to trade mission, I guess,
1:07:33And now they know they're real and saying that trade missions to Tokyo already want to take up the slack that they think the Japanese will have from the U.S. $2 billion in trade established right away in Russia.
1:07:48This would indicate they are trying to break Japan's $2 billion trade with Japan, for which they'll pay dearly.
1:07:55I mean, you know, copper developed in eastern Siberia, where the fact that it will be all Japanese technology for Russian raw materials for their country, that's a whole great deal for the Japanese.
1:08:11The Japanese are going to take it really clean, exactly, in terms of the Japanese technology.
1:08:18Well, let me, can I?
1:08:21Sure, sure, sure.
1:08:22Mr. President, I think the most, it's a funny thing.
1:08:25Well, let me ask you this.
1:08:28Do you feel that these things, you know, I was rather interested in, people said, well, China is such a big deal, and that changes the attitudes of people, people on policy, not on Soviet.
1:08:46I have this feeling.
1:08:48that as you look at polls and so forth, it'll change it much.
1:08:55It may change the mix, but isn't there a situation that occurs, I'm going to read it for a moment, that after we have a look at this country today, if you look at the media, and I won't say this in a complaining way, just by way of observation,
1:09:10And, you know, we're sort of in a psychology of knocking estimates and everything going to hell, and nobody can be president, and the United States does everything wrong, and Jesus loves to have a change, and we need leadership, and we're a star, and all that sort of thing.
1:09:29You see my point, though?
1:09:31And I wonder if, as a matter of fact, if the...
1:09:37if the presidential standing did not make sure the president had another individual, then maybe it'd turn out fairly well.
1:09:46But I wonder if presidential standing in the country is ever going to prove it.
1:09:53President, I've got a thing with the age.
1:09:55I don't know if it'll make you feel better or not, but I try not to tell it to you because it shows for me.
1:10:04What the essence of the problem of God is not an individual one, but it's also one that's done here, something we did in 1966.
1:10:12Why we haven't done it since, I don't know, but it was the degree of respect that people have for about 20 different types of leaders in various fields, including executive ranks, government, the Supreme Court, doctors, educators, bankers, institutions, leaders of these various institutions.
1:10:32And the results are really, well, they're both shocking and they're, and the only solace you can take is that there's been a lesser drop in confidence in negative brainstorming than there has across the board in this country.
1:10:48At the top of the list are doctors who were 72% great deal respected in 1964, educators who dropped from 61 to 37 in the last years, bankers in financial years 67 to 36,
1:11:02Religious leaders, 41 to 27.
1:11:04Businessmen, big drop, 55 to 27.
1:11:07Military leaders, 62 to 27.
1:11:09Scientists, 56 to 32, drop.
1:11:13These are huge.
1:11:15Executive branch chairman, 56 to 71.
1:11:16Got them in five years.
1:11:19That's the story.
1:11:20See?
1:11:20Then they hold us down.
1:11:22Hold us down.
1:11:23Executive branch chairman, 41 to 22.
1:11:25Supreme Court, 51 to 22.
1:11:29Then you get Congress, 42 to 19, way down.
1:11:33Then you get the press, 29 to 18, at every rate, high and still lower.
1:11:38And down at the very bottom, you get labor union leaders, 22% respect.
1:11:48You need 66 to 14 now.
1:11:48Very interesting.
1:11:49But what this shows is that we've had, since 66, a general loss of feeling about the
1:11:59Is it possible for anybody to be president?
1:12:00Is that really the problem?
1:12:01No, I think it is.
1:12:02Because we should consider the big plays.
1:12:04Not that we did it for that reason, but we just have to be here because of the combination of circumstances.
1:12:09This is the time it has to be done.
1:12:10The United States had to make this move to China.
1:12:13And I was the one that had to do it.
1:12:16We had to make the Russian move.
1:12:18And I was the one that had to do it.
1:12:20And the economic thing was built in those things.
1:12:25And of course, we have a war on the way and a few other little things.
1:12:30for a reasonable time, but I wonder if it makes any difference.
1:12:34I wonder if as far as the country is concerned, what is your view of this?
1:12:39Well, I think, Mr. President, we can make the bank good as far as we are responsible.
1:12:43I mean, go ahead.
1:12:45I've always believed that nothing is to be, that survival is man's basic instinct and that the American people have survived as much as anybody.
1:12:57So that's peace.
1:12:58Yeah, that's peace, basically.
1:13:00That's right.
1:13:01Which has got to be the most important issue, in my judgment.
1:13:07Now, why didn't you get a more immediate response from China?
1:13:12You see, we find, this is coming out, I guess, a week from Monday, in Uganda, in July, 48 to 64 percent gave positive marks on the peace in the world.
1:13:25Now, the only reason this happened, I'm absolutely convinced it did, like John Tyne did, was with the China thing.
1:13:32Why would it happen immediately?
1:13:33Well, I think the reason was there's a lead-acre weight on this China problem.
1:13:39that dragged it down and didn't let it surface.
1:13:42Now, on the economy, I think you really should have no illusions about that.
1:13:49I don't think that's an issue that will ever work for you in 1972.
1:13:53I think what you'll do is at best neutralize the issue, but when you neutralize it, you let a whole lot of other things come to the surface, like quarks rising up, the main one of which is
1:14:07Which is the highest point.
1:14:08And the other thing is that it's very much to our, and to the interests of whoever is here, is to emphasize the strong issue, the peace issue.
1:14:19Right.
1:14:20And just have a defensive action on the other issue.
1:14:23So they're thinking about the peace issue, maybe not about the other issue.
1:14:26It's not very interesting statistical analysis that...
1:14:30shows that the two balance each other off.
1:14:34And the positive and negative is generally a combination of the two.
1:14:39And the result is that in the positive negative, it's the highest since March of 70s, and March of 70s is the overall curve, which comes out next week.
1:18:24You're absolutely right about that.
1:18:26But most of it is wrong.
1:18:27But we can have a bulletin.
1:18:29I know it's fine.
1:18:30I'm too late.
1:18:31I started getting the news.
1:18:32Go ahead.
1:18:33I'll give you one result.
1:18:35Mr. President, this is a study that you called me about.
1:18:37These are just the details.
1:18:50Now, the rest of the news, I'll be working all weekend writing it up, but one thing which I want to show you is on the, who's supplying the buses?
1:19:03This one is just back.
1:19:09Buses.
1:19:12And the question is, who are they planning to be most responsible for addressing the chief racial balance?
1:19:22The choice they have is the President, Congress, state local school officials, U.S. Supreme Court, or all or none.
1:19:36Top of the list, Supreme Court, 36%.
1:19:39State and local school officials, 28%.
1:19:43People say they should have stopped it, and they're doing it.
1:19:48They say they're the ones, of course, that are firing at the state.
1:19:56Right.
1:19:56Congress, 9%, the President, 12%.
1:19:57I'm sorry, what was that?
1:20:00Seven, I'm sorry.
1:20:00Seven, and all four, with it to 12 is Deep South, that's what's in my mind.
1:20:06Deep South is 12, but that's still 16 in Congress, only 11.
1:20:08Those four levels, you take the least related responsibility.
1:20:13Well, you know, the thing that let me say, I don't like it.
1:20:16I mean, I don't like it that well, but I really like it.
1:20:1918% sit in prison.
1:20:24So you're really, to a degree, the thing I was trying to say about what we all have to understand, you know what I'm saying, John?
1:20:30The whole black-white issue.
1:20:38Let me tell you my feeling about that.
1:20:42What I think about the Muskie statement on a black vice president, as I said, he just may have said it in a totally candid and so forth and so on.
1:20:56But I again say that if you analyze it carefully, it is quite true that if it's unpopular to put a black on as vice president, say that it's unpopular, it means that it helps you.
1:21:06No.
1:21:06Right?
1:21:06No.
1:21:07Absolutely.
1:21:07If that's the gentleman, I don't think he did it to the ground.
1:21:09I don't have a question for him.
1:21:12Here's the reason it can't be said.
1:21:16It can't be said, even if you thought it was true, it can't be said about that term.
1:21:22And the reason it can't be said is that beneath the surface is a hell of a lot of racism and religious antagonism in this country, and that's also, there's anacatholicism and antisemitism, and there's a hell of a lot of anti-blood, and all that.
1:21:38The moment the public figure says
1:21:41I'll become that this, all he does is reach for it all.
1:21:46So therefore, you must, that doesn't mean that you say, well, there is none.
1:21:51Then you just say, yes, there is prejudice, but I believe a qualified man can win.
1:21:56Now, in my case, I didn't say it for a reason.
1:21:58I didn't.
1:21:59Brooke, on a ticket, Brooke, on a ticket, on balance, would not hurt me.
1:22:08And he would help at a lot of stages.
1:22:10He would hurt some.
1:22:11What's his name?
1:22:13Ralph Lutz.
1:22:14Ralph Lutz was the only guy to beat Javits.
1:22:18Well, you know, some probably in Chicago said that when I was in 68 and I was in Chicago, I said something that you couldn't have done.
1:22:35You couldn't put a Jew on the ticket without earning and so forth and all for everything.
1:22:40This one was set at all.
1:22:45I remember it very well.
1:22:46The specific question had to do with chance.
1:22:49And I said, well, first of all,
1:22:51Jeff said, well, I'm doing it.
1:22:52I mean, he doesn't... Jeff did not believe himself.
1:22:56He said, I'm a senator and so forth.
1:22:58And he said, this is not going to happen.
1:23:01And the other question was related to, which is a theory of mine.
1:23:06I do not believe in taking balance.
1:23:08I think the vice president has got to be...
1:23:12He doesn't have to be 100% in...
1:23:16philosophical tandem with the president.
1:23:18But he came out, you kind of have a gulf between the two.
1:23:23And it's, Kennedy and Johnson were about as far as you can go.
1:23:28And that was tough.
1:23:30That was tough.
1:23:31In our end, having anybody in the vice presidential line.
1:23:36I've often said the only job of a vice president is to support the president, nothing else.
1:23:46and not to be on the issue himself.
1:23:49There's one question you asked me that he and I discussed, and I think it's very important, really important to keep in mind.
1:29:25Well, I thank you for coming down, and let's have another talk in the mail, as soon as you've got your analysis of those other things.
1:29:36Yes, I think we've done some very simple stuff.
1:29:39But would you like a pair of us, please?
1:29:42Oh, thank you.
1:29:45You go ahead.
1:29:48Thank you.
1:29:51You are a golfer?
1:29:52Well, I'm left handed, you see.
1:29:54I'm left handed, but I'll get this here.
1:29:58There's your paperweight order.
1:30:03You have to do much to add paper.
1:30:05It's always, you know, get rid of the paper, not the weight.
1:30:11He's got everything you can get.
1:30:16All right.
1:30:19All right.
1:30:21Well, we'll see you next time.
1:30:24Yes, sir.
1:30:25If you'd like to come over to that for a second.
1:30:37All right.
1:30:41so so
1:31:11So I just wanted to let you know what's going on here.

Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Economic Policy and Foreign Policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 13, 1971

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