Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Agriculture Policy

24:59Oh, yeah.
25:01You've got Vietnam done and China underway and Russia coming up.
25:08But you know this, Bob, you couldn't be more right.
25:13It's the networks.
25:14That's what I mean.
25:15I'm still trying to get over across the bigger coin.
25:19It's the networks that matter.
25:20I know the Star and the Times and believe the Times and the Post.
25:25Vietnam's not an issue in the papers anymore.
25:27It is not a significant issue.
25:30Right?
25:30It's an issue on the networks.
25:32Because they've got their reporters out there.
25:34That's actually got that huge investment out there.
25:37And Brinkley, of course, is not up on it, too.
25:41You know, he gets there every night.
25:43And gives his opinion.
25:44Doesn't show his opinion.
25:46Isn't that correct?
25:47Brinkley now does.
25:49He now acknowledges that it's an editorial on the air, like several times.
25:54That's his pitch now, just an opinion thing.
25:58Bob is absolutely correct.
25:59This week they've just started, you can sense it, they've just started to swing that pendulum a little.
26:06And they go through these cycles with him for a while and very good.
26:10Yeah.
26:26Yeah, I think they played hell out of the elections and didn't make much impact with it.
26:34That's right.
26:36And I was talking about a platoon that wouldn't go into combat.
26:41Who wants to be the last man out to die?
26:44Motorcycles.
26:46Oh, sure.
26:47Well, it might quite exist.
26:52You got the Russian announcement.
26:56Either that or he's going to force our opponents to overreact the other way and try to any place they can.
27:03Any place they can.
27:04Right, Bob.
27:05Yep.
27:06Absolutely.
27:07Well, I think that Doyle comment is really working on it.
27:10What can you do, Jack?
27:13What can you do to get our legislative groups going?
27:17They just told us to run.
27:19No, they want to be up.
27:20Right, Bob?
27:22It shouldn't help shit.
27:23Aros, what do you have to do to get them out?
27:28You've got to take them by the hand, Mr. President, and walk them through it.
27:31And it's sad to say, but it's the only way it works.
27:34It's not only sad, it's unbelievable.
27:38The day that Goldwater, Bob and I discussed it this week,
27:42I think we both know the solution if we find the right man.
27:45But the day that we got Goldwater to attack Kennedy, we not only had to write it for him, we had to bring it back here to Minneapolis and take it back to the Senate press corps because his office staff wouldn't do it.
27:56Unbelievable.
27:57Why aren't they doing it?
27:58They were too busy with their own stuff.
27:59So we...
28:01And that's the problem.
28:02We need our own apparatus, our own guy who just does nothing but leave these bullets down and make them start off what we want them to start off and take them back.
28:10And they do it if you get to them personally.
28:14It's a hell of a time consuming effort, but there's just no other way.
28:18Well, you know, a perfect case.
28:22I talked to Ed Brook yesterday morning and told him what we wanted.
28:27He was just high as he could be.
28:29He said, this is fantastic.
28:31The president is just superb.
28:34Nothing came on the wire, so I called Ed back at 3 o'clock and he said, I've just done it.
28:39Well, you know, if we'd been there, we'd have done it for him and gotten it out.
28:45These fellas all live in their own little world.
28:47Didn't none of them, I guess, want to be national figures?
28:52He's got us there pretty well, I think.
28:56For?
28:56No, that's pretty well.
28:57Very good for him.
28:58So that's about it.
29:00That's what he's trying to do.
29:02That's what he used to assess the mindset that ourselves count on.
29:05And if he does, he's going to sit it right.
29:08That's also the reward.
29:09Yep.
29:09Always guessing what's going to happen.
29:15That's the problem.
29:16He loathes to be out there with a prediction.
29:21I personally think they ought to get a man to sit around and knock away rather than wait.
29:26They're doing it, I think, isn't it?
29:28Yes, I didn't know.
29:29This morning, the first race, I've been trying to get Clark.
29:31I picked Clark.
29:32Yesterday, he told me the idea was to move it immediately.
29:34That's what I thought.
29:35Take the hit now.
29:36I must have changed it.
29:39Well, I look for it.
29:40Actually, it looks a little better right now.
29:43while I buy and raise or rob a U.P.I.
29:45store of my son's when I come to the revolution in this land.
29:48Well, you've got an anti-Republican.
29:50In terms of Jesus Christ, he shouldn't be here to make you leave.
29:53They shouldn't be here to make us leave.
29:54That's the whole point.
29:56You've got a guy like Henry Smith who says he's a Christian.
30:03He says he's a Christian.
30:05I don't believe that U.P.I.
30:06said that.
30:07I can't believe Smith said that.
30:08That kind of a guy who says that.
30:11You shouldn't be here to make me mad.
30:17I think what's the rough spell there?
30:27Forget it.
30:28Yeah.
30:29The rough spell is there's no way to get it accomplished.
30:34And so this is jail for it, as I said, the focus doesn't get motivated by a totally different set of
30:48You might as well face the fact that there's no way around it.
30:51Plus, the quality has deteriorated very significantly in the last 10 years.
30:55Yeah, you're right.
30:56There were some real good, tough men up there who wrestled.
31:01The average quality has deteriorated, and the quality of the top men has deteriorated.
31:06Yeah, and there's a new breed of demigod up there that, you know, Huxmire in 1958, when he was into the Nats, now he's... And now, also, there's another Nats.
31:17their staffs.
31:19And you've got a bunch of the interns and staffs and others up there, these bright young people, and they're all, for the most part, leading till to the left.
31:28And they can probably keep these poor bachelors from saving.
31:31And the staffs are much bigger now.
31:32They've got much more cash.
31:33The other day, three of the staff, as I did, the amounts of $12,000 to the total staff, God, they've got eight in a congressman's office.
31:43Oh, yeah.
31:46and less control over them, less time to them.
31:51But Mr. President, you know, really looking at it, you've done pretty damn well in the last couple of months.
31:57I really should have.
31:59You sure have on those votes.
32:00And that has to have, you know, that has to strengthen leadership.
32:07What's your opinion on the call?
32:12Has it changed?
32:13Has it changed?
32:14I think he's...
32:16No, I don't think so.
32:17So long.
32:20I think for a while he was moving up.
32:22No, I don't think he's coming up any.
32:23I don't think he's going down, you know.
32:24I don't think they're not paying enough attention.
32:28He's starting, he's, I think that's, he's starting to fade, and then what'll happen when he fades, he starts out and lashes out.
32:35You know, he could make those.
32:37And then, then, uh, he goes up with a small group and down someone with a big group.
32:44Doesn't add anything.
32:46No, and he's personally a little bit withdrawn now.
32:49I mean, he's very defensive.
32:50Yeah.
32:51Which makes it tough.
32:52I understand.
32:52He's a terribly sensitive man.
32:54Very.
32:54Thank God we got him to go to Greece.
32:56I don't think he'd be able to do anything at all.
32:58Don't really.
32:58It means a lot to him.
32:59What's the matter with your stock market people?
33:06It'll keep bouncing until it'll keep where it is.
33:11I helped them.
33:13I said they'd keep bouncing until we announced that it was still being announced.
33:20And then I said, so let's clarify.
33:22Let's clarify until later comes along.
33:24They'd come along.
33:27No, the uncertainty is that the announcement of phase two hasn't answered for them the specific questions about what each one of them faces in its own business.
33:39Phase two will never end.
33:40Exactly the point.
33:40The thing they've got to understand is the principles of it and not the details.
33:45They're just waiting now to see all the details.
33:47Then your earnings start coming out and all that kind of stuff.
33:54Your retail sales, what...
33:57He's got a very preliminary system that will never be released, but what he's got at the moment shows his tail is up overall.
34:20More than totally accounted for by Idaho.
34:22The growth is more than totally accounted for.
34:24But the percentage over the last year is still running 8 to 9 percent during the September.
34:28That's right.
34:30And there were two weeks when it went well above that.
34:32There were two big weeks.
34:3317 percent.
34:33One of them was.
34:35And there's cars.
34:37Well, his personality and apparel was way under the table.
34:40Oh, okay.
34:40Well, Carter's just a big lover.
34:42That might be.
34:43I think you're just going over those periods and things are pretty damn good.
34:47That's it.
34:48That's the other point.
34:49Oh, this is Jack.
34:50I was glad you talked to Reesner.
34:53And he's the dog.
34:54I said somebody wrote it.
34:55Now, that's possible.
34:57That is possible.
34:58Yeah, but you know, as you're reading your script...
35:02The important thing is that these fellows know that we don't let them off the hook when they do this.
35:10We've just gone back to rather on one.
35:13And just every week you have to pick one out and kind of jab it in.
35:25Who the hell else in the cabinet team is?
35:33Can we get to say something to each other?
35:41Who do you think?
35:47We, unfortunately, are not as Democrats as we need to be.
35:53He does say good things about us to the bunch.
35:57He says great things about us.
35:59Well, if he's full of pride, I think he does pretty well.
36:06I agree.
36:06Yes, very well.
36:07There have been times when we've liked him to be a little tougher than he is, but basically...
36:13He's not a stranger.
36:15He won't look well.
36:16But...
36:20But he has made a couple of superb performances in the last couple of months.
36:26Two or three that have just been outstanding.
36:33Layard can be useful, Mr. President, if he thinks you want it.
36:45On this Kennedy thing, I kept pushing his people, which Galley did.
36:49Couldn't get a damn thing out of him.
36:50He sent a man over to see me, a fellow who works for him, who I know, and said, is this really important, and is this something that the President would like?
36:58And I said,
37:02And he did it.
37:05So he can at times be very helpful in letting you know when they do things like that.
37:11I heard Bob, I told you he was, came and told these guys that they could step up to something.
37:20If they step up to an operation.
37:22Stan is another guy who has two or three times stepped up and hit the ball very hard.
37:30Well, he doesn't make a whole lot of news when he does.
37:36He does try.
37:38That's the problem.
37:41Romney is probably the most difficult to get off his stuff.
37:45Yeah, and he...
37:54He's very hard to get.
37:56I think he's a lost cause.
38:00He shouldn't be.
38:02He should be damn good.
38:03What I did was put him on a peace mission.
38:09He shouldn't be lost on that.
38:13That's what he did.
38:14Yeah.
38:15I don't get it.
38:17I don't get it.
38:25It's one of our greatest favors, Mr. Sparrow.
38:29He kind of can't, he just boils it down.
38:31I think he talks about what a great job he's doing, but he never, have you ever tried him?
38:35Yes, sir.
38:36What's happened?
38:38Very little.
38:40He doesn't harm, of course.
38:43Morton, Morton is so kind.
38:44No, he's so unkind, isn't he?
38:53Well, you've got four of our guys that will really go out and step up to it.
38:57And what cabinet are you asking?
38:59That's what I was going to say.
39:01I don't think it's any different.
39:03Well, this FDR is a piece.
39:05And you've got a company.
39:07We've got a company.
39:08We've got a company.
39:09Yes, we are.
39:10I would accept the company as a government.
39:12We can't do the government.
39:14No, sir, I think.
39:17All right, we can't use Kevin Washington.
39:21We can't use Carson.
39:21I think we can use Kevin Washington more than we do.
39:24We can get him, ease into it, get him a taste of blood.
39:28Rumsfeld has dropped out.
39:31He says he's got to be non-blood.
39:32Well, Rumsfeld has never been much on attack anyway.
39:36He doesn't, and he doesn't general attack, so Rumsfeld's very good on the front end.
39:40And Mitch, too.
39:41Justin, you know...
39:47He's equivocating on his attack.
39:56He won't hit anymore.
39:59He hasn't made any news in two months.
40:10Well, I think he's the...
40:11I spent time with him, you know.
40:13I rode over the helicopter with him and rode back, and I really gave him... For some reason, what he's done has shifted from that freewheeling and hard-swinging senator that he was to a chairman of the National Committee who has to worry about the...
40:31Well, he makes another mistake.
40:38He spritz the damn Nathaniel Travel Law somewhere and talk to 300 people.
40:43Not get a nickel's worth of publicity.
40:44Well, who is it?
40:45Who is Postler?
40:47Nobody.
40:48It's a... No, we let him in there for a purpose.
40:53We tried to tell him on one of the networks for a talk show and they said they didn't want him because he wasn't making any news.
41:17And then we finally got him on one, and he wouldn't come back from Wichita to do it.
41:26The poor fellow, I think... No, no, no, no.
41:28He doesn't have the ability to do it.
41:30He does have the ability.
41:32I mean, I see him on the first page.
41:40Oh, it just means you tried hard.
41:42All right.
41:42Isn't that frustrating?
41:44It's, uh, you know, it goes in cycles.
41:46You shift one people into somebody else's.
41:49If we get 50% of the time that we try to get these fellows, we get them.
41:52As long as you get them 50% of the time, that just means you tried that many more times.
41:56And you'll never have what you'd like.
42:00Well, I don't think so.
42:01I don't think so.
42:03What I mean, though, is something else.
42:07If they can't do it now...
42:10You know, after all, he and the Democrats, they were making some big plays for him.
42:17And so, I tell you, if you've done any of this, I tell you, I go after the cabinet meeting and say, we brought them in and we gave them.
42:25They seem to be all right.
42:27That is our hardest time to get them going on stuff.
42:31That's exactly right.
42:32When you were in California the last two weeks in August, and you, therefore, weren't able to do anything.
42:45At least every day, somebody from the cabinet really did step up and did a pretty damn good job.
42:52They'll pick it up when...
42:56Control is a special problem which Bob and I have been working on very hard.
42:59We'll get him back.
43:00His own self-confidence is involved and it's just going to figure some way to... Why do you think it matters too much?
43:09I think what he's done is he's, and you've seen it every time he's been in here, he gets out, he does, the worst thing he can do as a public figure is get into personal contact with people, and he does.
43:19He gets into small meetings.
43:21He does a group of 300, but he also gets into the state and sits down with the state chairman and three people.
43:27Well, Jesus Christ, Mr. Chairman, if you don't get the corn up, we ain't gonna make it.
43:31And he comes running back, or he says, and he says, hours, as you know, of POWs.
43:35And he gets terribly depressed, as anybody would.
43:38How'd he get depressed when he talked to us?
43:41That's the depressing thing.
43:43Well, he keeps inundating himself with that kind of stuff, where a public figure like that has got to remove himself from that personal contact with people with petty problems and just demagogue over their heads.
43:54But also, also, Bob hasn't been through enough national politics to know that when the governor of Vermont says to you, if you don't appoint this guy FHA director, you'll never carry the state...
44:07And they all do that.
44:08But after you've been around a while, he comes right back and says, you're going to lose your mind.
44:12Oh, sure.
44:12He called me up and said, we won't carry your mind next time.
44:15We don't appoint this guy.
44:16I said, for Christ's sake.
44:20That's the typical line.
44:21You won't get the last one if you don't go out of this, or you won't do this if you don't do that, and also get involved.
44:28He was asking if I'm getting this one or not.
44:31I don't know, but he just got to stay out of it.
44:36Yeah.
44:37My answer to Bob was that the Becker poll in Vermont shows you're winning the state 2-1.
44:45Then he goes off and moans about something else.
44:49It's just a thing that's got to get him over.
44:51Well, the point is you don't worry about Vermont if you lose a 2-1.
44:55That's the point.
44:56He's got to get in the big plays.
45:01Well, that's the problem with getting down into the...
45:06And boy, you've done enough of that.
45:08Just remember in those congressional campaigns, when you go out and you get trapped in those rooms after the dinner, and the seven leading citizens say, we've got to sit down and talk with you about this situation here.
45:22And then all we're writing about the gun case is always the party squabble in Indiana.
45:28And that's why it's so terribly depressing.
45:31Because of the infighting.
45:33And to be able to talk to the women of their economy class.
45:37They'll come in.
45:38Sure.
45:38And they'll come in to Dr. O'Rourke's and he'll be pressed, because Pantshaw pressed.
45:42Correct?
45:43Yep.
45:44Because the women are fighting.
45:46The women are fighting in Arkansas.
45:48We should let them fight in Arkansas.
45:50If they don't work in the world, instead of fighting in Arkansas, they'll be fighting in Missouri.
45:55Yeah, it's a fact of life.
45:57It doesn't win or lose elections unless it really gets out of control.
45:59They're all mad at Gladys O'Donnell.
46:01They're all for her.
46:02They all want Mary Roe to do something.
46:04Why do we fight with Mexicans?
46:06Because it's a treasure.
46:07Yeah.
46:09Why is she coming up for confirmation?
46:13It's not settled.
46:14She's doing the rounds.
46:15She's trying to show an individual.
46:25We shouldn't get the storage at all of how these fellas are doing.
46:32I think basically they're doing better than they were really a year ago, I think.
46:39A year ago, so that's the point.
46:42That's why you're operating.
46:45We're getting them up there.
46:47We've got to say, much as we love Bryce, we've got to say this also to McGregor.
46:54In the Bryce period, we had to suck those people all the time they needed, right?
47:00Except kick us in the ass.
47:04Well, first, we used the guys back in the 50s who, if they did that, they'd perform, right?
47:09Divine users have a background.
47:12I just go to some of the hard lines, right?
47:14Let the others go their own.
47:16I try to get them broken down and say something.
47:19Well, he makes a hell of an impact when he does it.
47:27Well, Javits, and now he's calling wanting to know what we'd like him to do next.
47:31He loved that.
47:31We got him all over the front page or something.
47:35And they loved that.
47:37But each one you have to play just a little different.
47:39It's just the effort of doing it.
47:48I think also when they read the polls up there in the next two weeks or so, they find they're a little more eager to get on the team.
47:56Yeah, but this sort of, you know, that's the best.
48:00And there's a hell of an impact on them.
48:04Well, I think that's what we're trying to do.
48:08We're trying to get on the team.
48:10We're trying to get on the team.
48:16Later that day, after I'd seen Conlon, I think that you and Hillary and I, we talked a little more through the end of the chamber there, but then you made notes, and you gave it to the chamber, and I'll make sure it notes, okay?
48:28So the chamber will, you see my point?
48:31Yeah, so the chamber will have something, and so does Henry.
48:35Henry will not be able to run this thing and say, well, the president wants to see that in his game.
48:41So you make notes about it.
48:42This is my understanding of what we want.
48:46How does that sound?
48:47Do you guys strategy this?
48:49Yeah, because that's what we need to get at the time.
48:54And we're going to miss coming around.
48:57It's a big deal.
49:03All right.
49:03Well, you know, I was going to say, John heard me, and he needs to, he's going to get some of that stuff back to me now.
49:09The truck?
49:10Is it?
49:10I don't know what it is.
49:13Because John was such a reasonable man.
49:16I don't know what he said.
49:18I was not sitting in my suit.
49:19Thanks, man.
49:20That's ours.
49:21It needs to be there.
49:23Sure, sure.
49:24Sure, yeah.
49:25Just go to your seat.
49:26Have a close look.
49:27That's the outside.
49:28Huh.
49:29Well, he had a gun in his back, but he didn't go.
49:33Yeah.
49:33Sort of that type of stuff.
49:35There's the main watch.
49:38Mm-hmm.
49:40I just heard it, heard it.
49:46That's the kind of place I like.
50:00You know
50:21Well, no, no.
50:46I, I, I, I, I won't be able to see him in the bottom of the house.
50:48I've got to stay silent.
50:49Uh, Rosewood is going to be in a pretty good situation.
50:51Mr. and Mrs. Burns are here in the White House, and if you'd like them to drop in for the last period, it's over your head then, too.
50:55I don't know how to deal with the price, you know.
50:56It's going to be real, though.
50:57I'm not going to do it.
50:58I'm just going to brag.
51:39Oh, my God.
52:23Thank you.
52:40Why don't you just have your side of the machine?
52:42You should do that for a reason.
52:44They're going to buy a piece of paper.
52:46We know that right from the start.
52:47Don't, it's a, don't, don't hesitate to use the machine.
52:49Don't ever hesitate to use the machine.
53:07Because if you know, you don't know what the next, this routine that you're providing me, I offer it to you.
53:13That's it.
53:14That's it.
53:29Okay, that's safe.
54:29Right up.
54:2910-15 seconds.
54:2910-15 seconds.
54:3010-15 seconds.
54:3010-15 seconds.
55:03We will take a 60 minutes break.
55:04We'll be right back.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Agriculture Policy

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Also recorded on October 14, 1971

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