Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 593-007
Date: Friday, October 15, 1971 at 9:37 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Sanchez, Manolo; Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/593-007

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[43:39] What the hell would it be for if he didn't achieve the protocol?
[43:40] I think it's the wrong thing.
[43:43] I'd rush, I guess, to keep going on a state visit.
[43:45] Obviously you'd take them, but this is our state visit.
[43:47] I think what you ought to do...
[43:49] This isn't seeing any keepsakes.
[43:51] We don't understand the nature of this visit.
[43:54] The way we've understood this visit is look at an old Western movie.
[43:58] Remember when the Cowboys were fighting the Indians or the North was fighting the South?
[44:02] And then you get to a point, and a bunch of guys have put up a white flag to go across to talk to the other guys about something.
[44:08] He said, that's what we're doing.
[44:09] We've got a white flag up.
[44:10] We're going over to talk to the other guys, because a lot of them are coming back.
[44:13] Now, there's no, you don't do that with a lot of Van Ham or any of the kids in the church.
[44:21] He says, well, we've got to go to the other cities.
[44:25] Why do you go to the other cities?
[44:27] And he said, well, he's going to shoot those.
[44:30] I don't know.
[44:30] He said he's only in a position he's concerned about.
[44:34] He said, well, what the hell is involved here?
[44:37] He feels it's a, he's lost his sense of perspective to some extent.
[44:40] But I think you just, you still got to go with him.
[44:44] You know, hope he does the best he can.
[44:46] I think we've got a position about right.
[44:49] Well, he said, he said, you can't go in there and ask Joe and Liza to have a crowd turn out to the front center.
[44:57] And I said, well, that isn't the point.
[44:58] But obviously, Joe and I raised the point with you, if we would like to have a crowd turnout, is that satisfactory or something, that you would say, of course, the President would be very pleased with that.
[45:07] He said, well, I can't raise that.
[45:09] He said, we'll get a reading on that anyway.
[45:11] When I arrive, if they have a big crowd out, that would be an indication.
[45:15] And I almost said, he just fell out of the chair and said, I wouldn't say anything.
[45:20] The poor guy, I think he's going to be heartbroken if he arrives there and they don't have Red Square filled with screaming Chinese.
[45:30] He did this all the time.
[45:33] I told him, I said, I don't want that.
[45:36] It's a good idea.
[45:37] But he said, they can't do it.
[45:40] And he just, he just, he just strong-armed that truth.
[45:45] That's part of the price of having a gun.
[45:48] But on his crowd and so forth, he really believes that the police is over there running around the whole city.
[45:54] I finally got across to Mark that more than in the K, it's 100 times more value for us to see one round.
[46:01] I put that in my notes too.
[46:03] I wrote out the notes yesterday.
[46:04] He didn't copy.
[46:05] He didn't copy out.
[46:06] But he needs to go out and read with that.
[46:10] I think that's what he needs to do.
[46:14] Oh, it's good enough.
[46:17] Well, do that again.
[46:19] Let me tell you, on the Russian visit, though, you're gonna have a lot.
[46:38] Believe me, I'm going to handle that one.
[46:39] We're going to get the maximum crowd and everything there.
[46:42] We're going to strong-arm them like we did with the Maynons and the others.
[46:47] And Henry is the worst advance man in the world.
[46:50] Absolutely the worst.
[46:52] In some respects, yeah.
[46:53] I mean, in terms of logistics.
[46:56] Yeah, because he would have you working 30 hours a day on substantive matters.
[47:02] Did he get no money, Jeff?
[47:04] Yeah, well, I've been working in this office all the time, and you have to be impressing people, and people say, well, isn't it wonderful to be impressing people?
[47:11] What's going on to the provinces and having a dinner with the province officials?
[47:16] What in the world are you getting from that?
[47:19] They won't allow coverage, so you don't get any, you know, public knowledge out of it.
[47:26] And what's going to affect world history about you meeting with the warlords of Chengdu province?
[47:37] Well, the crowd didn't expect me to do it.
[47:40] I don't care about the past life in any way.
[47:42] It's just probably that it's a little more work for other reasons than we think it's useful to do.
[47:52] You know, we fought like a tiger about Earth, advancing it.
[47:55] I don't know why.
[47:57] Earth was too strong for me.
[47:59] But he gave us a reason to pursue our power.
[48:03] He said if I didn't have an opportunity to do it,
[48:07] We must, of course, I don't want this to be true.
[48:13] God, God, God, God, those bastards.
[48:17] The point is, he said, well, these are enemies.
[48:23] The truth.
[48:24] The people are come.
[48:28] Therefore, we need some people contact.
[48:32] That's the point of it.
[48:35] It's not real, but you've got to have a deeper understanding.
[48:38] I was just talking to you about Chamberlain, and I said, oh, this is a question for the Chinese, and the question raised, thinking about the business of the other cities.
[48:50] I don't want to go too much, I want to attempt to amend them, because I don't want to leave too much of a question going over the ceiling of warlords and that sort of thing.
[49:00] What I'm really more interested in, you know what I mean, their leaders,
[49:03] Let me put it this way.
[49:07] We know that the meeting with the leaders is, and that's what I had to be prepared for, and that's what I had to do.
[49:19] But the government of China is our ally.
[49:23] The people with the minds of the American people are not necessarily our enemy.
[49:29] That's why I don't have any.
[49:31] Some indication.
[49:31] Some indication.
[49:32] It's like a bill.
[49:33] Maybe you put some 30 minutes.
[49:34] You've got to look back at it.
[49:37] You've got to look at the meanings.
[49:39] You've got to like it.
[49:43] because the factory workers are our friends, and the organization is our enemy.
[49:47] Now, I've not tried to undercut it with these people any more than I have, but I don't think you can raise the subject in terms of something that we want, but I think that we, that the leaning should be in the sense
[50:03] of not appearing suddenly to be there as a captive of the government.
[50:07] Any time anybody's going to break out so that there's some people contacting them.
[50:11] But I agree, Mr. President, but I must tell you I'm worried about the advancement because if that's their instruction, they're going to do it with this dedication that's so characteristic of them.
[50:23] And we may be able to get it, but this is a precarious situation there to begin with.
[50:31] the Chinese and their whole history have had a very different attitude towards foreigners than anybody else.
[50:37] They've jealously guarded, they're saying, I believe you're going to get a good popular reception.
[50:44] We're not trying to help.
[50:46] What I'm simply saying, we're not trying to help.
[50:49] I don't expect change, but I already thought you could only grasp my voice.
[50:53] Yeah, he's going to raise it.
[50:54] He's going to raise it to us.
[50:56] I'm going to raise it.
[50:58] What I'm saying is that, yeah,
[51:00] And what we are trying to do here is to let that be as much as possible, and in some way, the message gets through.
[51:10] That's all I can say.
[51:11] Right.
[51:12] Now, I will be able, particularly when I talk about Mrs. Nixon,
[51:16] to make the point of... That is the point that I'm not... No, no, but I know I...
[51:24] But I can get in the point of...
[51:26] Even if we drop out Mrs. Nixon eventually, I can put in the point that for the American public, the contact with the...
[51:34] The way I can handle that is something that's true.
[51:39] Mr. Prime Minister, Mrs. Nixon is going to Russia.
[51:42] I said, start with that proposition.
[51:45] Now, we had no plans at the present time of her coming here.
[51:49] We have deliberated on that.
[51:51] Tell us honestly, would you want her to be online?
[51:54] That's the way I get things.
[51:56] No, I see.
[51:57] No, then we are going to Russia.
[51:59] That's the way that all is going.
[52:00] We have two problems.
[52:01] I mean, one is how to introduce the Mrs. Nixon proposition.
[52:05] That's easy.
[52:06] The second is to use the Mrs. Nixon proposition.
[52:09] to introduce the point of the crowd it's very tough for me and i want to be careful about this to say to choke i mean these are mortal enemies i mean there's no way they will not let us go over there and we may be bringing down the guy who's on our side if we try to
[52:28] creation of a situation.
[52:30] We don't want to go rushing around and be
[52:41] We totally, shall we say, captured a period if we can avoid it.
[52:45] Part of it is the way we present.
[52:47] There's an impression that could come up that we don't want, that we were worried about security, that we don't want any exposure to that kind of people.
[52:55] Don't let that be the impression.
[52:57] Let the impression be that it's not to do with racism.
[53:00] It could be in their mind.
[53:02] We just want to welcome the opportunity that we would be glad to just do, you know,
[53:08] expose the people for us, not that we are in the other hand, in the other way.
[53:14] Right.
[53:14] Now, I can make that point.
[53:18] I'll do it in a complicated way, but I'll make it very clear.
[53:32] It's less easy to make on the visit to the top
[53:36] out of town.
[53:37] It's just not predictable what would happen.
[53:40] My instinct is that it's in their interest to produce it.
[53:44] This is not the important thing.
[53:46] I don't consider this the important thing.
[53:50] I guess what I'm sure is that you know in your own mind that in terms of the effect in this country,
[54:00] That's all we want to hear.
[54:01] Now, let me say the decision on this is yours.
[54:03] It's not Chapin's.
[54:05] That's what I just told him.
[54:06] I said, you've got to decide it because anything we do in this thing must not be...
[54:18] interrogation of our major negotiations.
[54:22] And I understand that.
[54:24] But on the other hand, Chapin won't take the program.
[54:27] That's one of the reasons.
[54:28] Oh, he wasn't my candidate.
[54:29] But he'll do anything you want.
[54:32] He's done us a good job in putting this stuff together.
[54:35] When you come to you, just tell them what you want.
[54:38] But if you won't start an army, don't worry about that.
[54:41] You won't be talking to the people who can start an army anyway.
[54:43] You will.
[54:44] We'll have to figure it out.
[54:47] Chapin's
[54:48] instructions are clear he's not going beyond what you've set up using the coin that's right i understand what is involved mr president i will kill myself
[55:10] would be better actually should, but I think that you should, the way I would very well introduce it, and I would be, I wouldn't be here on the question much, I'd say there's one personal thing that I think that I'm presently asking to Rick.
[55:22] Mrs. Nixon has been invited to go to Russia.
[55:25] She has been, as a matter of fact.
[55:27] So she is going to Russia, and as far as we are concerned, we have no plans on it.
[55:34] She would welcome the opportunity to come, but tell us the end of it since we do not have a relationship with any of the leaders.
[55:40] It's a good idea.
[55:41] If it isn't, we want to go.
[55:42] Basically, this ain't going to be a relationship.
[55:44] That's what you want to raise that on.
[55:46] They say you're failing to do a job that we do not want to do.
[55:49] That's different from the Russian thing, unless they want to.
[55:52] I raised with them on Wednesday that I'm a member of the Floyd Committee.
[55:56] Yeah, sure.
[55:57] I arranged with them on Wednesday just to see if they could establish a president, so that I could communicate directly with Washington while I was there from the airplane.
[56:07] You know, from my airplane, I don't need to do it, but I just wanted to establish a president that they would choose at the ground station.
[56:16] Well, so that at least they had been at one time a director and they've today agreed to it.
[56:22] You know what the shot did?
[56:25] It's unbelievable.
[56:27] The Vice President over there at Persepolis has a telephone, quite quite his, wherever he is, that he said, when he picks it up, our White House board says, yes, Mr. Vice President.
[56:45] Just like that.
[56:46] 24 hours a day.
[56:48] You were in charge here.
[57:04] There's no question about it.
[57:05] The Chapin will not have your country.
[57:08] Chapin, on the other hand, will carry out these things through the letter.
[57:13] Oh, yeah.
[57:14] So you talk to him a little bit.
[57:15] But you see what I've turned into.
[57:17] It's just, frankly, the subtlety of the thing.
[57:19] It's got to be handled their way.
[57:20] I think myself, though, turned out a hell of a crime.
[57:23] I do, too.
[57:24] And I don't mean to ask it.
[57:25] You don't ask it.
[57:25] And I think that let's be honest.
[57:26] You don't ask it, too.
[57:27] I don't mean that.
[57:28] But what I'm suggesting is don't get in the way that they're all in the way of it.
[57:34] played a Russian visit against the Chinese without very... We've got to tell them that the President has been invited to visit another city in Russia and probably will.