Nixon & Haig on United Nations and Taiwan

2:27:02I will.
2:27:02Thank you.
2:27:02Oh, my.
2:27:02Thank you.
2:27:02Thank you very much.
2:27:42Two-thirty, go.
2:27:45C-A-A, come in.
2:27:49Now.
2:29:25uh no sir we still quite nervous about the india pac thing there's very worrisome reports coming out no one thinks that the indians are about to move but henry suggested i called the green today and just crack it very hard on the
2:29:46Pressure on India and India.
2:29:51And we will go ahead.
2:30:18We had a near horror this morning.
2:30:33Bush gave a speech that was scheduled to be given at 10.30.
2:30:36We got the text at 10 o'clock and it was laced with presumptuous inferences about
2:30:45how China has been bad, and we kept them out of the UN.
2:30:48Now they've turned good, and it's well to bring them into the UN.
2:30:53He said that he indicated that they had turned good.
2:30:59That they had moderated their performance.
2:31:03Well, we got it all straightened out, sir, because Secretary Ryan was very responsive.
2:31:08I call him a desperationist.
2:31:11And we've blasted out all these paragraphs of one, I think it's under... Let me suggest a couple of things on that.
2:31:17I talked to the writers about it.
2:31:19I think that you, Rogers, Bush, and I should meet and work it out with all of us for a good time.
2:31:28I would do it.
2:31:31I would.
2:31:32Well, listen, I just want to have a meeting with you over at EOB.
2:31:35Go over to how the hell things stand and what more can be done.
2:31:38Roger, this morning, when I raised the book, I said, I'll be done as much as we can.
2:31:42He said, well, I don't want you to have an oral notice and so forth.
2:31:48He said, well, we don't want you to do too many because we want to be rebutted.
2:31:54Our little thing doesn't bother me particularly.
2:31:57I mean, if you, where we think, for example, it's ridiculous for countries like Canada, Greece, Turkey, Venezuela, just to name four, that totally depend on us, for them to be against us on the same thing.
2:32:12And we, we, this is one place where we can put the pressure on now.
2:32:17Right.
2:32:18That's the whole answer.
2:32:20It's done privately and done in tough times.
2:32:26That's right.
2:32:31That's the way we've been doing it.
2:32:33But even there, I think what we ought to do is say, look, we have leverage points on each of these countries.
2:32:41and some hints ought to be made and whether it's oil for benzoyl.
2:32:44Well, sure.
2:32:44We've got quite a lot of other things.
2:32:46And with recent turkey, it's going to have a hell of a problem at our Congress.
2:32:51Every country, every country, every country that votes against the United States on this is going to die.
2:32:58At the 350th Congress, there are four titles that are going to take it out of that.
2:33:02Boy, hey, now that should hit every time that happens.
2:33:05Although the lack of conciseness, that should be drawn up.
2:33:08This is what's supposed to happen.
2:33:11Well, we've been here.
2:33:12Now, one other thing that Roger suggested, and I think it does make sense.
2:33:16He pointed to a telegram from Malick, in which Malick said that there was a question about the U.S. position in this order or not, the White House position.
2:33:28was undercutting in order was the Rogers question.
2:33:33Rogers is aware of how they're necessarily playing this.
2:33:36And so there's no problem in his part that he accepted.
2:33:39He believes, and I think he's getting it.
2:33:41Of course, he's absolutely correct.
2:33:42Apart from the vote, in terms of our problems with this Congress, there can be no question on that point in this country of yours.
2:33:51Now, what I would like to do here is for you to get a picture.
2:33:56I think his line should be, gentlemen, there's no question about the president's position.
2:34:21We are for the deletion of the, we put a very simple argument, the president, this nation, this country's position, and there's no difference between the president's position and that of the Secretary of State in the United States of America.
2:34:36We are for, we think, the deletion of mainland China.
2:34:39We oppose the expulsion of Taiwan, and the president is in full support of that decision.
2:34:45If he's in full support of that decision,
2:34:49No, it doesn't.
2:34:50Our big problem is to keep this from developing into any kind of a duel between you and Joe and I that he's got this.
2:35:10refund, uh, publicly or that could sound reasonable.
2:35:12The other hand, uh, we, if Ziegler doesn't, I assume, I do not, I don't intend to have any press conferences until after we've spoken for this reason, but it's, uh, but if Ziegler does this, it seems to me that just, just simply says that there's no, there's, it, it, it starts, it starts to be effective as a difference between Secretary of State and President.
2:35:36They're totally wrong.
2:35:38We have one position, Mr. President, one position in this government, and just the name is for the admission of one against the expulsion of the president.
2:35:46The president is in full support.
2:35:48That doesn't pose any problem, does it?
2:35:50No.
2:35:52The word is full support.
2:35:54But not any rhetoric then?
2:36:01That's what we have to be careful of, is personalize it.
2:36:04That's just what Bush's speech did, unfortunately.
2:36:07Oh, God, it would have been a humdinger.
2:36:10And we just exercised large portions of it out, and the secretary called up to me.
2:36:15He told you?
2:36:18He told me he didn't call.
2:36:22Yeah.
2:36:22Good.
2:36:22Well, if you work that out, let's say, and tell Ron, I think the best time for him to do it would be at least after the Bush speech.
2:36:30That would be better.
2:36:31Well, he's given it.
2:36:32See, we had 15 minutes.
2:36:34Well, then why don't you have it?
2:36:37You could do it.
2:36:39I just want that done.
2:36:42And then we can do it, but it looks like we've got a hell of a lot of play anyway.
2:36:46Well, it's coming to the Senate.
2:36:47So that Roberts can use it with, see, Roberts and Bush and Al can use it with the various countries.
2:36:55That's what I want.
2:36:55I just want something off the record.
2:36:57All right.
2:37:00That's not our idea.
2:37:01Yes, I think it's all right as long as we keep the view out of it as a person, let Ron do it, and just let him... That's all right, but we have one policy.
2:37:11Yes.
2:37:11I'm going to avoid press conference like a play until, frankly, after there's both.
2:37:17So it's important that some direction gets back.
2:37:19This is the time that we can get out.
2:37:22So, on the other hand, there's the interest system.
2:37:25He has to answer the question.
2:37:26He does in terms of there's no difference between the White House and the administration.
2:37:30He just picked off the essentials.
2:37:36This is the administration's position.
2:37:38There's no difference.
2:37:40It's whatever.
2:37:46And avoid going any beyond that.
2:37:47So if you would handle that, and then if you would just keep your relationship, you could just say, you would talk to the secretary, he's going to make this, and, you know, clear it up to them and say, here's what you plan on having to say.
2:38:05Or just have him say it and then send it over to him.
2:38:07You work out what you think he's...
2:38:10But I didn't get by.
2:38:22The Soviet task force has swung north now, and they may or may not be going to Cuba.
2:38:31You know, Henry hit the green very hard on us.
2:38:35They'll probably fiddle around and
2:38:38on the edge of propriety, but I think they're conscious of the fact that we're damn sensitive to this.
2:38:48And, uh...
2:38:48I mean, for Casper, is he going to Cuba now?
2:38:50Yes, sir.
2:38:53You know, I don't know that Henry told you that Kosygin was going to visit there.
2:39:00Well...
2:39:00Which they claim is essential, and I think it probably is.
2:39:05I don't think he remained.
2:39:08We had some bad press this weekend.
2:39:16That goddamn Smith line got into the post yesterday about your trip to Moscow under cutting salt.
2:39:28Well, that line appeared in a Gettler story, and it had a little Defense Department twist to it, so I'm going to talk to Bob about really cracking down on both State and Defense on this issue.
2:39:40It's disloyal to you.
2:39:42It's a goddamn incorrect logic to begin with, and it's self-serving to that delegation of ours.
2:39:50I don't know how to go further.
2:39:51I think...
2:39:55Bob's cracked down.
2:39:57No, no, I'll do it, but I want to be aware in case they come back and bleed.
2:40:00I'll tell you, but I want you to send a memorandum.
2:40:02I want you to say the President's concerned about it.
2:40:06The President doesn't know that this, he believes that this is, and then it'll be, I don't want you to say it'll just be tough as hell.
2:40:14The President brought you to this, but it's all of my attention, these things.
2:40:18And then just say what can you do, and this is totally...
2:40:25Uh, don't you think that's the way to handle it?
2:40:27So that doesn't occur to you, it's just the NIC setting?
2:40:30Yes, sir.
2:40:31Well, I don't think that I feel that way, pal.
2:40:33Oh, absolutely, and it, uh, you know, it's awfully strange when you get a picture on Thursday from Smith, and on Sunday there's a piece that's running fairly parallel to it.
2:40:44When you talk to Rodgers, Tom and I were concerned about it, and I think he ought to agree.
2:40:49At least Smith or I don't have to do it, but I'm going to have to say we're doing it publicly.
2:40:54I just put it that way.
2:40:55He's going to keep it.
2:41:00Well, Santa's a no-go.
2:41:01We have to keep him.
2:41:04He's just so concerned he doesn't get to...
2:41:11He's afraid we're going to make the deal.
2:41:15Take his glory away as Nobel Peace Prize.
2:41:20In Christ, he wouldn't even be there if it hadn't been for what was done back here.
2:41:30Well, it's good when people are fighting for the glory and music.
2:41:44We have an SRG meeting on Cambodia today.
2:41:49There's been a lot of bad press stories on the air.
2:41:53Is that right?
2:41:54Well, we're planning to get involved up over our years in there, and of course we're not.
2:42:00At the same time, it's very limited.
2:42:04Most of these people are using that argumentation so that we don't help these poor people, and we'll get that ironed out today.
2:42:12We're bringing lads back to help with the fight on the hill because they put a limitation on money and people.
2:42:21in the Foreign Relations Committee, but I think we can...
2:42:23I want you to call Rodgers, though, and I just said that I was, that after he left, I had, I had just read my new summary, and I was frankly shocked.
2:42:36To put it that way, I was really dissatisfied with him, but I really didn't want to put it that way.
2:42:44I think he's got to keep Smith reached out
2:42:50You'll do it.
2:42:59Exactly right.
2:43:09I think that's a healthy.
2:43:20I think Paul Mitza helped him, too, with the source.
2:43:33No, sir, but it's his line.
2:43:35It's the Smith line flavored a little bit by Defense Department considerations on the offensive systems, which would make Mitza...
2:43:45crime candidate.
2:43:46And that's unfair.
2:43:48He may be totally innocent, but that's also very partisan.
2:43:54I'm just telling you what I am, that my, my, just say that our reports are, that's a, put it right into our, that's where we can't, we haven't verified it, but I'm just saying it's goddamn, but I want, I want, I want it cracked.
2:44:11If he, if he won't crack it, I will, just put it that way, but I will, I intend to do it myself, if he won't crack it, because I don't want to send out a memorandum.
2:44:20the president on this, but will he crash on that?
2:44:25Right.
2:44:26In the meantime, isn't that better, really, than a rocket crash?
2:44:28I think it is.
2:44:29And I think he'll do it.
2:44:30I'm certain he will do it, because it hurts us.
2:44:33That's what I'm telling you.
2:44:35I'm telling you.
2:44:50George Bush probably might be better out at the end of the week so that we can see one thing, so that we can get a better idea as to what the calendar is and where we are.
2:45:09Now, unless they feel that
2:45:11Something needs to be done.
2:45:12Now, I'd just like to know, when they get down to the closer boats, which, what did you think about Thursday would be, or Thursday Friday would be at the time?
2:45:20Yes, sir.
2:45:20I do.
2:45:21I...
2:45:21Here's George Cass, a senior here from Cousins.
2:45:24And also, our next year is just to be down here.
2:45:26I just talked to Kate Moore, you know, and Tony Irons, and Tom, his brother.
2:45:34John said that our Irish group has got that business of the Irish group, but the English group has got us on this.
2:45:42That's what it gets come to.
2:45:45God damn it.
2:45:45Of course, we have that silly Irish girl.
2:45:47That's what they answered with, you know.
2:45:51And then we were in the store on that airline.
2:45:53That airline company heard from me.
2:45:56That's what the lady said as soon as she gave me the note.
2:46:00It was why she was concerned about small firms on the airline business or something like that.
2:46:12How do you feel from her end?
2:46:15Well, if we reopen the airline, then it's worth it.
2:46:20I think it's worth it.
2:46:21Let me put it this way.
2:46:22The best of both worlds, now, is for us to win this war.
2:46:26And they'll get it next year.
2:46:28But this year is not a good time to lose this vote.
2:46:29All hell will break loose now.
2:46:31Like, where were you?
2:46:33We survived it.
2:46:34Hell will break loose in the Congress.
2:46:35And the country knows about this.
2:46:38Get out of the U.N.
2:46:39I can hear it now.
2:46:42And also, while it irritates the hell out of the Chinese Congress, for us to win this vote, it is a part of the story of me.
2:46:52No, no, not the winning of the vote.
2:46:54I don't think we do.
2:46:55Just so is the way we win this vote.
2:46:58You see, I find this, we've got to make the effort to win the damn vote.
2:47:02Well, it would be a tragedy if we lose and somebody could say, well, the White House didn't support it.
2:47:08That's why this statement must be out.
2:47:10It must be very clear on the record.
2:47:23I wouldn't be surprised that I don't worry that I'll be in the basement at all, frankly.
2:47:53They're in trouble.
2:47:57We have estimates that 50% of their rice crop is gone.
2:48:04That's the one-time-a-year crop that they really sustain themselves on up north.
2:48:09It's gone.
2:48:11They have a requirement.
2:48:12They're having POL problems from the Soviets.
2:48:14They're not getting their deliveries.
2:48:20They're very, very concerned about Peking.
2:48:23and then making one statement after another.
2:48:26They have a directive after their people, which is a secret one.
2:48:34It said that you can be sure that they can not betray us because if this would be the end for all they represent.
2:48:45So it was an unsure assurance to their people.
2:48:47I just think they're in hell.
2:48:54We've got as much leverage working on them now as we've ever had.
2:49:03There's one thing we've got to be sure that we're coming home.
2:49:07Everybody knows if you're planning to go to Moscow, you must not do it.
2:49:11Now it's too high a price to pay, and we're not going to do it.
2:49:14It doesn't need to be done.
2:49:16It doesn't need to be done.
2:49:17And also, you know, we...
2:49:21We've given about as much as we could ever expect to give, and if that isn't enough, goddammit, we've got the leverage on our side.
2:49:45We've got the leverage to do the job.
2:49:51I couldn't agree more.
2:49:52I just think for him, just even...
2:49:55You know, he comes back, and it comes out like this one had squelched.
2:49:58I'm not, never, I'll never approve his going to Moscow.
2:50:02I never will.
2:50:04He must not do it.
2:50:04I just want to see the visit.
2:50:06It's just, it's impossible for it to be seen.
2:50:08No, I don't think Hanoi wants it.
2:50:09Huh?
2:50:09I think they'll put Hanoi in an untenable position.
2:50:12They don't want it.
2:50:13They want to go on.
2:50:14Well, they just got this idea, well, with Moscow, and why don't we get in on that piece back there?
2:50:19Henry must have put himself up front and center that pretty much, and this is not necessary.
2:50:24No.
2:50:26No, I think he's come away from that considerably, sir.
2:50:29I think he realizes it's a mixed bag.
2:50:32Is that a letter of reference at all?
2:50:39Yes, sir.
2:50:40It's being signed today.
2:50:41I didn't want to bother you with it.
2:50:44We've given to Dobrynin a copy of it, unsigned, which he wanted to send back to Moscow over the weekend.
2:50:54He's delighted with the letter.
2:50:58Now, I've sent messages, incidentally, to the band people that you asked about last week through Mr. Laird, and they're just delighted and very honored.
2:51:08How about the Connolly trip announcement?
2:51:13Is that, what's it say?
2:51:15We've got one temporary hang-up, and that is the Indonesians have not replied yet.
2:51:19We sent a flash message.
2:51:20The Japanese player?
2:51:21Japanese.
2:51:22Well, one thing I want you to do is this.
2:51:27I think you ought to get in on a very quiet basis to the Japanese ambassador and tell him that the President is really concerned.
2:51:37The flat board over Okinawa.
2:51:41And that he doesn't, he feels it's very important that this be done in the highest time.

Nixon & Haig on United Nations and Taiwan

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Also recorded on October 18, 1971

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