On October 26, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:45 pm to 1:39 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 602-010 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Uh, let's see.
I don't know if he was here.
He was.
He did.
Alright, he comes.
Good.
I, he will be on our eye this year.
Uh, he will be on our eye this year.
If you don't have any jokes on the other ones, okay.
This time, the old ones.
And, uh, fine.
That's fine.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Now I have the first question that we're holding on to.
And we'll go on holding them off.
That's correct.
You said you didn't want to see them without a copy.
That's correct.
And if you do need to see them before a copy goes, you have a copy.
But that's a copy.
Yeah.
I just think I'm going to raise it with a copy.
Okay.
I don't think that I know that John and George are not aware that he and George were innocent.
They aren't aware of the communist's enormous sensitivity about not saying somebody about monetary matters unless he approves it or is dead.
and he's right about it, you know, he isn't gonna take too long.
And here's his fight as well, that he believes he could run his thing like Kessinger runs his, but Kessinger has a hell of a problem, going around Rodgers as if he is, but if he thinks Rodgers is gonna get stripped out of the body, and he does, Christ can't leave his honor.
Now that, too, is just not a gap.
Okay, great, we got it.
And I don't, I think I, I don't know if this is working at all, but, oh, it's, it kind of is.
He said he wants them to handle it in the White House.
Not the monetary.
No, but if he wants... That's right.
The monetary only needs to be to himself, Bob.
That's my point.
If he wants to get into the monetary thing.
Everybody wants to get into the monetary thing.
Connolly.
Connolly, he can get in, but Connolly has got to be...
It's just too complicated to choose from.
I'd like to get, frankly, the man to really get into that is Schultz, because he knows more about it.
And so I think I'm going to work, that's why after I see Conley today, I'm going to put Schultz over for a conference or something.
So that Schultz can write her while Conley is gone, rather than having his left, you know, confused.
You know, or Burns, or...
or for that matter, Volker.
Well, you need somebody other than Connolly in it looking at Connolly's people.
Well, you're goddamn right that they're the best of us.
I know all this.
I'm 100% what it's about.
No, no, no.
They're about Connolly's staff.
I know they're weak.
And I don't know where, but I do know what they mean.
Look, we went through that goddamn training today.
You can see Connolly has a special problem.
There's no question.
He is.
He will not.
And he is.
His and Tanner are way out there.
I just know.
I can't see.
Like, for example, I've seen one of these.
That was smart.
So we agree.
He is very easy to get along with.
If you get along with him, and he is, it's impossible if you don't.
Exactly.
That's all there is to it.
You just gotta...
You've got to play it his way.
He's got to know what you're doing.
He almost never objects to anything.
No, that's not all.
If you ask him and say, look, I'd like to do this, he says, okay.
And he goes out and tells you that he loves it.
Right.
But if you don't ask him, he'll say, well, I wasn't concerned.
Remember, we had a couple of things like that, and he wasn't actively concerned.
Because it's sad.
That was what it was at the time.
Thank you.
Yeah, that's right.
That's the thing where you weren't going to continue to attract controls.
That's right.
And Sapphire's, if you don't have an idea, that really did go through his staff, but it didn't go to college.
It actually even went to college, but it wasn't flight design.
That's right.
When you've got something like that, you've got to call it.
We know that.
But he's great then.
Which is different than Bill's.
That's exactly right.
Bill intends to use rear guard actions.
I found this super-sensitive book.
It's easy to read.
It reads, um, some of the stuff.
That's a lot of cute stuff.
And that's really funny.
Well, it is funny.
It really is funny.
Sure.
Why don't you go in and run around the catapult?
I'll show you.
Sorry.
It's cold.
If they decide they want it, he needs it a lot.
Right.
You're getting out of bed.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
No.
Firm handshakes.
And smart.
Smart girl.
They're smart as hell.
There she goes.
We all love Gloria Emerson.
Bitch, the other time, sir.
I interviewed her the last day and tried to say, I love you talking to you.
You know you were brought up like I've been.
You didn't.
It isn't true that you really didn't do this.
She got some colleges and got a state and so forth.
You know, she didn't write a thing.
I said, well, she's just a bitch.
I've known her for years.
Glory.
They are just cold sons of bitches.
Then, well, yeah.
It really is.
They're going to march today.
It's localized at 1 o'clock, apparently, down on the monument grounds, and march up 15th Street.
And they don't have a permit.
They're going to stop.
They understand that there are two factions.
One is the peaceful faction that will then, when they're stopped, just sit down.
And the other is a militant faction which, when they're stopped, will start trashing or doing something, you know, and then they'll arrest them.
Less than 1,000, apparently.
So they may not even have... Less than 10,000.
They're not really sure what they've got, because they're, you know, they're just vice-handlers and participants.
In the press.
And the press.
Sure.
I pooped out yesterday in a little rain and I never died.
All right, so it's like a goddamn press.
I swear to God, there's so much bias in this war.
I told everybody in the back room, he's all for it.
He said he was invited to call in and the Bureau of Police said he'd come out every 19 hours at 5 o'clock.
I said, he shouldn't have me.
I didn't tell him a little about it.
It's fine.
Yeah, I do think, I just think we're, I just think we're asking for things, Bob.
I, uh, we give them to, we, all we need to do is speak at the news, and let them hear what we give them, and put it on the record.
They don't have to understand the whole thing.
That's right.
Put it on the record, and let them hold you.
And don't say very much, so that all their stuff, their stuff should just look funny the other day.
Henry's problem is the back guy.
Henry's problem is that he gives them so goddamn much that they're terribly impressed.
And that's why they've never gotten a cross.
It's a very simple thing.
Sir Roger has gotten a cross.
He's the next in the world.
Now, Henry has never gotten a cross.
He doesn't do it.
He just, he will drop down, lay down in the background, and he's very intelligent.
He's working on all these things and so forth and so on.
He needs to, but he can't.
He is, you know, it's the old process craft.
Dick Perkins, I don't know if you've seen Quentin, some paper was editorialized referring to Nixon, the peacemaker, and making the point that that's really the line we ought to use rather than a man of peace.
I guess it's going to clear up, right?
To this measure?
I don't think so.
The power of the office.
Yeah, I mean, unless he's tied up with those masks.
Yeah, that's Disney.
And that's the lead in this paper.
Mrs. Disney was crying, you know, about the flies.
And they made this big thing out of it.
And that was on Sunday.
On Monday, they did a spectacular job, you know, as they would.
It was unbelievable.
Thank you very much.
They had a random light up in the main flagpole in Town Square, right by the railroad station, because it's just like Disneyland.
And they had the Army Neural Trumpets, the guys we have here, did their ring up and played their band there.
They played the National Anthem down there?
I guess so.
I hope we do.
They played the National Anthem and everybody sang.
Then they did their parade to the Disney characters and everything.
They finished all that, and then they, Meredith Wilson comes out on a band and goes, they had a thousand piece band, marching band, all high school kids.
plus 76 trombones, so it was a 1,076-piece band that filled the entire length of Main Street from the train station clear down to the castle, the Sleeping Beauty castle.
And it started from under this train station and marched out and they had a 4,000-voice choir up at the end that sang When You Wish Upon a Star, and then they flipped their balloons out and the white pigeons and all that stuff, you know, and they put on one hell of a show.
And it was...
That's Card Walker.
Everybody's sitting there with tears in their eyes and everything's on the grave.
And they had thousands of kids, and they had a big dancing chorus up through a dance hall down the Main Street.
Card Walker was saying just what you said about the Vietnam veterans.
Just kids like this, you can't worry very much about the country.
And Roy Disney made that point.
I'm aware of it.
You know, I've got great young people.
through our own minds, you know.
I think we're a little too jittery about the kids.
I mean, I just may be wrong, but I know what it is.
That's the only meeting we ever go to.
The only ones usually they trot in here and mention the rest, and practically, you've got that wrong here, sons of bitches.
And of course, my kids have been on to the Ivy League schools, and they think you're horrible people.
And I agree that when we go out, we see these students, and they're vicious.
and horrible, and the ones you see on television are terrible.
The ones they interview, they don't ever have them.
These are good-looking guys.
I mean, some of them had little long hair, some of them didn't, but they were just top-down good-looking guys.
Well, these kids have done this, you know, a lot of them, they love men with long hair now.
They've accepted the fact that this style has changed, and the kids in this game seem to think we're a lot of them.
The boys have long hair, but boy, they were, you know, still very clean and...
Impressed?
You're going to succeed?
Oh, yes.
It's going to have enough people.
It's going to succeed beyond their wildest dreams.
It's a great place, and the setup is very good, but I think they're not cracking there.
They're going to come forward.
See, Florida doesn't have a population in California.
That's right.
They don't need it.
They'll get it on tourism.
That's right.
But the point is, at this place, they have the hotel.
It's a great recreation center.
They've got this man-made lake.
Actually, it was originally a natural lake.
They've got a surf machine.
that makes six-foot waves for surfing that the kids can ride surfboards in.
And then they've got a separate section for, like, the water stream.
And they've got a great camping ground for horses, and people can come in and do their own camping there and everything.
It's $6 a night, and that gets you on the transportation system and everything else.
And they have these huge hotels, two of them now.
They have 2,000 hotel rooms now.
And people will go there and stay for three or four days.
Are there conventions?
They have conventions?
Eventually, yeah.
Are they going to have a convention center?
No, not at the outset, at least.
They may eventually.
That would be great.
The conventions, they have a lot of... Well, the hotels probably have rooms for models.
That's right.
They do.
And all I think about is the room type.
That's what I mean.
Go have a $100 dinner there.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they'll do that.
I'm afraid it just straight ahead doesn't seem good like that.
It's going to...
They can't lose on it.
They will go and then some.
But they were sharing.
Roy Disney got me a side, you know.
And it was interesting because Jack Ryder told me, Roy Disney, the Dizzies have really been helping on the fundraising dinner out in California and all that stuff.
They said, Roy got me a side.
He said, just, you know, we appreciate what you're doing.
We'll do anything we can to help anybody.
And the Smuckers, you know, the jam Smuckers, jelly people, have an exhibit on Main Street.
So they were all, they were there.
And young Smucker, who looks like he's about 12 years old, but apparently is president of the company or something now, came up to me and he said, I just...
I'm going to write you a letter because you'll forget that they said I want to help in the campaign next year, other than just giving money and all.
And I'd like to know what I can do, where I can do something constructive, because I just have this feeling that this is the year we just can't take any chance on losing.
Getting a lot of that now, and I think it's both enthusiasm, but it's also, like my Jewish friend from New York, we only get on the winning side of things.
Well, there's an emotional thing here, but obviously this is kind of tied up with, with regard to this U.N. thing, what Reagan's, of course, he's representing the party right here in Mexico, called way down by one national call, saying that we're not getting out of the U.N. until we no longer want to be down by the vote.
Actually, we can't do that.
But on the other hand, I got talked to and toned down in his interviews.
Some feel it was this idea that there ought to be, that there ought to be a continuous fallout of an anti-support of the UN.
And I said, don't do that.
We just can't achieve it.
We just can't go that far, you know what I mean?
And Bill said he would.
I said, no, I cannot.
And the press conference said yes.
People have done it.
I heard it all along, yeah.
Can I suggest that on your side, Chuck, you're going to talk to Buchanan.
Talk to Buchanan and see what he can do with it.
He said he would try, but he didn't think he could do very much.
They know what we've tried.
They just can't believe that we couldn't put some of those little nations into line.
And they know.
And he says, I'll talk about that.
But it's just, when you lose money, you only need a fifth of three votes.
or an extension of five.
We've only been winning it like two or three before, Mr. Chairman, that we couldn't.
The right wing wants an excuse to be this way.
I think, too, that's not a thing.
No, Jeff says Buchanan's not doing anything on the court thing.
Oh, yeah, and he said it really is too damn bad because we had everything lined up, not just the court, but we've got our guy in as head of this humanities endowment that the right wing is all excited about.
and we've got the core deployments, and then he thought we had the China vote.
He thought we had a super right-wing package to go with this week, and then the China vote sounded up.
Well, the China vote is going to start.
It's a hell of a lot better to start than it is to do it next year.
That's the point.
That's right.
He said that his suggestion was that the one thing, if you're going to do anything, he thought there probably should be a presidential statement
that would say, in effect, this is a black date for the United Nations.
They've made a serious mistake.
And Bob, he doesn't understand that.
He can't do that.
He doesn't know.
He doesn't understand.
Well, his argument was that he didn't see how that could hurt the other.
He doesn't know.
I mean, we've made a statement.
He wasn't pushing hard for it.
He said he regrets it.
He regrets it and all that sort of thing.
He said he'd be welcome.
I'm sure.
One of those things, there's no good answer to this goddamn thing.
I think what you should do, Chuck, is to get a hold of the stand of the mind, the stand of the mind, and listen to how the hell of a job Bush did here in Guam and so forth, and tell them to take it out on the U.N. Now, Bob, for Christ's sakes, can't you not then consider if you want to take it out on the U.N.?
You know, just like I said, rather than the Senate, rather than me asking to take it out on the Senate, I said they basically will.
But I want to take it out on the U.N. and that's going to cut their appropriation.
Do you want to name me one?
But I can't let them know how much we did, because we twisted too many arms down.
And I can't let them know that we twisted and failed, because we did twist.
But we're going to have more to twist in a minute.
But we can't do any more right now without jeopardizing the other day.
We're in a very, very sticky wicket.
We can hear it.
We can hear it now.
Coral was the Congress's deserter.
I want you to get to the word.
I want you to get to the test.
I don't know that they're going to need any encouragement.
I talked to Ed Brook this morning.
He said today he couldn't vote five cents through the Congress of the U.N. That's coming from the left.
He came out with one of those.
He was on that list.
Now, let me ask you, what in the world got in the door to go on that?
I called Knapsinger this morning.
I couldn't believe it.
Knapsinger has no explanation.
He says that he just thinks that he wanted to be on the Statesman.
i already raised all of it now so you're just trying to get a statement out praising you and the administration for making a valiant fall out there
Three weeks of unrelated effort into it.
The one thing they can't, it's done now.
Now we're not going to go through this thing again.
We've done it too often.
Just like the right thing, drive us up a wall.
We can't do it.
I mean, they're going to be, they can't have them all there.
Good God, they've got to, they're getting it done after everything it is.
The line that's present that the liberals will take is the one that Colleen Pritrix used on television this morning, and she said that it was – we had to know all along that the smaller countries couldn't afford to go with us because inevitably, Red China would be in, and they couldn't afford to risk the wrath that Red China is out for.
We knew they couldn't stand with us, and that's where they're going to – that kind of argument is the one that they'll – Well, that's too sophisticated.
When you open it, it's all that needs to go on, isn't it?
So we're pushing.
As far as the average person is concerned, the United Nations is no good at starting a letter of association.
That was always the problem.
And that goddamn U.N. proclamation crap.
I mean, they'll never let another one of those come across like that, so I'm not going to sign one.
No more.
U.N. day.
Rick, he's doing one smart thing.
He's rescinding his today.
Is he?
California's rescinded.
I don't recall him anymore, I guess.
Is Rick, what's Rick?
Is he?
He's not taking you on this stuff.
No, he wants me to go on television and say we're not going to be bound by votes of the United Nations in the future.
Well, of course, it's a typical right-wing, simplistic thing, which you can't do.
You can't say, because I said, well, you know, we've got a problem at the moment.
We're trying to use the United Nations and the Indian-Pakistan thing.
He wouldn't understand that.
Actually, the Scott and Ford statements this weekend now, in retrospect, look even better because everybody knows that they wouldn't have been issued without your approval, or the White House approval at least.
And they were pretty tough on future funding for the U.N.
The U.N. said you couldn't vote a nickel through this place on it.
The feeling is very, very that it
I mean, Reagan said, you just saw on television, you said, you see all those cannibals up there going, did you see it?
It's a horror experience, isn't it?
Going against the United States and cheering and stamping their feet, waving their arms and kissing each other.
God, it was brutal to watch this morning, I must say.
Well,
I don't think this...
I think if we do this right, the heat can be directed against the U.N. and away from you.
I think that most of the thoughtful people know that we gave it everything we had.
I'd like to...
Most people are not thoughtful.
But nevertheless, we just do the best we can.
We've done the best we can.
It's a difficult situation.
There's not a lot of people who don't care a hell of a lot.
But, you know, the majority still wanted Taiwan kept in.
But the majority also wanted red China let in.
But when you balance those, you don't come up with a very strong feeling that Taiwan has to be kept in.
I'm not so sure.
I'm not so sure that the bigger issue is not whether Taiwan is kept in or not, but the United Nations kicking the United States around.
They don't like the goddamn United Nations.
That's the thing.
I think it's like the Supreme Court.
Well, that's the thing that the...
I don't think they care if I can paint your dad's top cowl on, but they sure as hell don't like the United States we're getting around, and that's the way that television's playing, huh?
There's nothing we can do about it.
Right.
Crap.
I don't know what else you can do.
Well, you do what you can to cover what you've got.
The main line is to take it out on the U.N.
I want them to condemn the United Nations and pray for the Rogers.
We can get out this place to VFW and leave this here in a second.
They're shattered this morning.
They'll be delighted to.
No, they won't.
I've talked to them already.
They know we made every effort.
I talked to them over the weekend.
But directing to your point, Bob, they say everywhere they go around the country, this is what they get from the typical VFW.
The guy that goes to a VFW meeting just is hit by this.
It bothers him that we would lose everything.
Taiwan would be abandoned.
It's just kind of an article of faith with those kind of people for a long time.
I assume Rogers is saying something about
We're continuing our support of Tevin.
I'm sure he's happy.
That was interesting.
But that's what they were all going with this morning, didn't they?
Oh, of course.
He said our treaty commitments still stand there.
We're still a member of the Panhandle of Nations.
Oh, yes, that's all.
He said, in effect, we...
We welcome him to the nation of China, the People's Republic, but we deeply regret the expulsion of the other works of that, and he will not say our creed in that term.
We think it's a bad precedent.
Well, I think we could get some of the conservative columnists in also and give them a good... That George Bush, maybe?
Bush does a pretty good job.
Let Bush do it.
Let Bush do it, because he can speak later in the...
This is a time, frankly, when I think being a little bit of a poor loser is not bad in that sense.
What you made this morning is a startling one.
It's three-quarters of the membership of the U.S. in countries which have never had an elected leader.
That kind of discredits the organization.
Even in Latin America, how many that have now?
What I meant was that their leaders are not elected in contested elections.
Oh.
If you look at Africa, you see the U.N. is primarily now Africa.
That's prominent in Africa, Latin America, and Asia.
Jesus Christ.
If we'd have twisted a few more arms off the silver radiance, Jesus Christ, there wasn't another arm to be twisted in this.
We did everything.
That's the point to make, as much as you can make it without compromising other things.
I think the right wing is happy after last week.
Well, they tend to be hiding a lot from the left.
100% or not.
The other thing, the one they're really going to keep building on is the whole defense line.
Yeah.
And the, uh... That's building.
That's building.
Very high.
Very high.
Did you hear about the two house ops?
Because they'll pick up heavily on that.
His column in Newsweek this week is a sort of super horror story on the new Soviet holes and the asylums and the big holes and what may be in them and what may be in the other holes and stay out.
and all of everything, the severings and the whole, you know, by the time you're done, you figure, why is this whole done?
And he was obviously doing it to build that case.
He said, some of it is fact, and some of the fact is that the holes are there in the junctures.
What does that mean?
As the readers can figure it out, about as well as any kind of, oh yeah, he dramatizes, he says, one day,
In November or the latest December, your phone's going to ring and it'll be Dick Elms saying he wants to come to report to you on the Soviet tests, which will tell us what's going on in those holes and what the main government is and whether they're merged.
It'll be what we'll address it to.
That's the thing, if they're really trapped at that point this morning, the one they're
They're going to continue on as the defense.
Now, they can question, do they understand the reporting on the defense?
Do they understand that?
No, so they haven't authorized it.
No.
They really, well, I don't know.
I haven't ever seen.
You get an outside discount out of it by saying the Soviet APNs are in place and operational are.
APNs haven't even been tested yet.
Yeah.
All right.
Let me tell you, she could actually come out.
That will help.
It will.
I think they buy the idea, or they can live with the idea of the summits if they think we're not letting our guard down.
I think that's it.
I think we're appreciating the summits, except that they're not.
The court arguments were tremendously helpful with the fellows I took as far as the concerns.
God, I just gave them a
Especially, even though Rehnquist was probably more conservative than Powell, Powell was symbolic to a lot of people.
Joe Patrick just has been mounting a one-man crusade.
There's no time for you.
Well, I think there's nothing more to do with this U.N. thing.
We can't make a, if you discuss the presidential statement thing, we can't.
The thing actually is that Rogers should do it because he's there.
He's made the fight.
And I talked to him.
I sure want to get, I don't know what Dole can do, but he can't get off that.
I think they should offer that position.
Yes.
I saw his letter.
I saw his letter.
He's not speaking for 95% of the Republicans across the country.
He takes that letter.
You got a hold of Knopfsinger?
Oh, did I?
He hadn't heard about it.
I got a hold of Knopfsinger out in Palm Springs, and I said, I just read what you got.
I gave him a check and signed yesterday.
He said, what?
And I read it to him, and he was screaming.
He just called me back a little while ago to say that he was trying to get some statements out of Dole and others praising you for making a great fight.
And tragic that the U.N. did this.
I forgot about that television.
Maybe that's...
That's a good handle for getting people mad at the UN, which takes the... Irritated.
Irritated.
That's a...
I didn't say it.
Reagan said it, because I saw it.
He said, I saw it.
He called me at midnight.
I was in bed at that time.
And he said it was a horrible thing to see.
Oh, it was.
I was gassed in watching it.
There's such a repulsive bunch of people.
I know.
Old...
And then to be followed by Pauline Frederick.
Get your day off on a very bad start.
Bush had a good line today.
What did he say?
Day of infamy for the UN.
But he carried it through.
It was a good, tough statement that
over the wires this morning.
We're good.
Yeah, he was good.
Roger just knocked it down.
He should go further than Roger, son.
Roger should go further than I can.
That's the problem we've got here.
But, uh, we're, uh... Orson, do you have a... Do you understand, Orson?
What, uh...
You see, what is at fault here is that we'll get a double flag here.
The conservatives will expect to take us on out of conviction, but the liberals won't because they've got to take us on about something.
And so that's it.
They're dying.
They don't know what they know to take us on about.
They've cut the economy.
Screw about that.
They don't know what else is going to happen.
They realized that would be an issue that won't be here next year.
But I need some goddamn tough action on the UN.
I'd like to find something symbolic to denounce that conservative.
I'm not going to do a press conference for about three weeks, which would be about the right time by that time, so we can further back the public consciousness.
Thank you.
Well, there's a lot of things you can do symbolically, but I suppose all of them hurt the other side of the coin, which is the China relationship.
Well, yeah.
I don't know what they are.
I don't know what's doable, basically.
Take Bush out and put in some Bush leader as the ambassador.
I'm sure he'll give the UN a message, but I suppose that would hurt you.
with the other side.
That's what you're doing to Sebastian.
Exactly the book.
We can't
We can't be in a position to lose the vote.
To simply say, well, to politely say, well, now we aren't going to play.
On the other hand, Criley couldn't get the balls off.
And they don't get around.
And they just deny it.
They say, who are we?
That's why I want you to know I'm somebody who doesn't pass.
That's where I was handed.
And he has his foreign aid, but I don't think he has the U.N.
I don't know the hell he has the appropriations.
International organization.
Is he the Rooney?
Is he the Rooney?
He's the Rooney.
Because he held back the money for the ILO that George Rooney wanted to hold back.
Oh, fine.
You ought to kill the guy, man.
You mean you'll squawk today?
Sure.
Well, I can believe that the Kennedy and Jackson are going to make a deal.
Is that your belief?
That wouldn't surprise me.
You mean you'll put it together?
Mm-hmm.
Make pretty huge analysis of it?
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Which one on the top?
Kennedy up there.
Oh, Kennedy.
Good.
Jackson would have a hell of a lot of swallowing to do, but he's been edging himself over.
He's been moving over everything.
That's the...
Except that the...
Except on the issue of Vietnam.
God damn it.
That's ridiculous.
That's a good issue.
I don't know what's happening around that.
After that kind of defense.
Well, you may take care of that issue for them and see.
Yeah, I suppose.
And they won't have the issue.
And then they'll get together on domestic policy.
Sure.
And their answer will be, well, the peace has been achieved.
And for the facts, I suppose, they will switch on that.
Oh, Jack Kennedy did a great switch on that.
He hasn't caught on to any public support MCP.
Not at all.
Why is it the media don't give him anything?
Is that the reason?
Like, the media bills to Lindsey, but they don't bill to Jackson.
Well, in the media, Lindsey can get people scrapped up to Jackson Canyon.
Jackson is not a... is not a... small... personality.
Lindsey does get people excited.
You're right.
Sure.
Lindsey has curiosity value that Jackson doesn't have.
All right.
Well, there's still a hell of a lot of the establishment Democrats who are locked in on Jackson.
Maybe it's a pull to build his strength to get him to the running 8th or something.
Some of them think he should be the candidate.
Well, the more...
I certainly could have picked some establishment Democrats.
We would be coming down to them when they think the vice president can hold the ticket.
But that's not true.
They're going to vote for or against Kennedy, please, on the top of that.
You've got two things going in this area, though, Mr. President, and that is that Jackson will be looked upon by the dailies and the meanies as the guy who will clean up the Democratic Party if the nomination is a lost cause, which a lot of them are being, at this point in time, fielded.
Make him the candidate, clean up the birdie, and get rid of the left.
If they don't think they're going to win, or they don't think they have a shot at winning, that will be their objective.
Then on the other hand, you've got the McCurthys, who Jackson's right is tending to the left.
Jackson's certainly moving far away from that goal.
He is, but they would feel he's tough on Lorde.
But he's really with him.
And he's willing with him, basically, and he's just doing his thing.
He's following him.
And then on the other side of the coin, you've got a guy like McCracken who wants to go all the way to teach the Democrats.
Yeah, how much, how many votes do you think you're going to push to figure now?
30?
No, I don't think that high.
I don't think it's a bias.
Yeah, you'd probably lose five or six Republicans.
Maybe 15.
to 20 Democrats.
It depends on how much of the case they want to try to make.
They've got to make a basic political decision, whether it's in their interest to try to build a case against this guy.
And I'll be surprised if they've reached that conclusion yet.
I still want to see how he handles himself in the hearings.
I have an idea Bill will do very well.
And if he does, then they simply look like they're against him because of his decisions.
He's good.
He handles himself well.
He's smart.
He's smarter than I am.
He's very quick.
He'll study the whole lot in a minute.
But you have a fellow like Marlo Cook, who has just got a one-man crusade going for Lincoln.
He's for it.
Yes, sir.
And then he's won some of the liberal Republicans.
And Saxby, who had already said that he wouldn't vote against any of the analogies, even if it were...
He's the one guy in the Wednesday group who
Who said he would support Bob Bird?
But he's enthusiastic, right?
I would have said he is.
I'm sure he's with us on whoever he nominates.
Oh, yeah.
Overjoyed.
A while ago, just as well to have a few of them snapping and seeing us talking about it.
I'd like to see a little bit to Bill, and it'll be a little bit to Bill, I guess, on the segregated law firm.
That'll be all right.
Thank you.
Yes, sir.
We'll turn the fire on the U.N. side.
That won't be very hard.
Well, the main thing, though, is to take it right to the U.N. Yeah.
Don't you agree, Bob?
Yeah.
And to our best interests and yours, to the care of fighting the fight.
Yeah.
I wonder, Bob, while I'm talking to the colleagues and the rest of you, what do you think?
He wants me to report what he has to report.
And that's a lot of work.
But I think it would be very important for him to get rid of the crime.
Now, Graham says he wants me to go on the road.
I don't want to go on the road.
I don't mind reading it.
If you tell him the borderline, I'll attack the U.N. Don't attack the president.
Get in the Bible.
Also, Harry, uh, try that with Jane.
Maybe you can get it after a couple of surgeries, like...
Okay.
Did you mention that to Lieutenant, to make the U.N. to go?
Oh, yeah.
He saw that.
Well, Chuck is right.
I know.
I know this.
It doesn't necessarily have to rub off on us.
If we play it smart and push it in, I think that's right.
If will is done.
I don't know whether you go or not.
This is after it's done.
I guess maybe then there's only a whole lot of mail on that.
Well, I'm getting out of here, man.
You're kidding.
I've got to leave.
I've got to get out of here.
I've got to get out of here.
Okay, I'm just gonna allow them to track.