Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 603-007
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1971 at 1:13 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; [Unknown person(s)]; Ziegler, Ronald L.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/603-007

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] What did you do here at the U.N. today, Mr. President?
[0:15] Well, I, uh, I, uh, very carefully, uh, basically by expressing, uh, my views about cutting and so forth, but, uh, that's a different thing.
[0:26] But, and, and also not, not expressing, not expressing that really, I mean, it's,
[0:28] What happened was that Senator Bob DeVoe, that we said after all, was a man of principle and was actually a little bit more than one.
[0:47] But the conduct that I've always wanted to ask you to say, and I'll direct the title right there, on this guy's glee and personal animosity toward the United States of America that's been very seriously jeopardized in support of this country?
[0:55] It's running very strong and well in ways that it's...
[0:56] Significant?
[0:56] I think it's very straight.
[0:57] I think it's good.
[0:58] I'm sure it all helps us with the constituency that have reacted badly to the UN over the past 24 hours.
[1:07] And I think this takes great place.
[1:10] The idea of putting the monkey in the UN back.
[1:22] Right.
[1:22] The issue of Taiwan, I mean, it was going to happen anyway.
[1:25] I mean, if it was going to be lost, it's too bad.
[1:26] And frankly, it's not going to happen.
[1:33] It should happen.
[1:37] Because, well, I'm going to say, Coase hasn't felt that it came off very well.
[1:42] Oh, that's the reason why.
[1:46] That's your rhetoric, it's all right.
[1:47] Oh, the one point that I think is a good indication, a question, is that, you know, the whole thrust of this, and I'm sure you still have to see, Ron, is basically quite subtle.
[1:55] I'm not, I don't express any affection for Coase, right?
[2:00] And I don't express any criticism of people who have received foreign aid voting against us.
[2:18] But what I affirm to you is the fact that the country and the people reacted very negatively to the undisguised greed and animosity expressed from the United States by those who voted against us on a matter of principle.
[2:26] I think that's the point.
[2:29] That's a very important point.
[2:32] Does that come through in that?
[2:33] Yeah, I think so.
[2:35] In fact, I support the United Nations.
[2:38] I support the United Nations.
[2:39] That's all it is.
[2:41] Yes, sir.
[2:43] That point is well made, that actually this was an affront to the United States, and that you as president would, I think, quite understandably be shocked at this kind of a performance, which
[2:54] It reflects that kind of hostility towards the United States.
[3:10] I think most Americans are.
[3:11] Oh, Jesus.
[3:12] No doubt about that.
[3:13] Okay.
[3:14] I don't know that there's a need to proceed with the Bush and Whittier picture.
[3:16] No, we're not going to.
[3:17] Not now?
[3:18] Not with this?
[3:18] No.
[3:18] Oh, man, don't turn it off.
[3:19] I already turned it off.
[3:20] The person is talking about seeing Bush.
[3:21] That's turned off.
[3:21] I'm talking about the Bush background.
[3:22] Talking to columnists.
[3:23] Well, he was going to tell columnists what a fight he had put up, which we thought would help with the Kilpatricks and the others who, I think I mentioned this to you, who are concerned that we didn't fight hard enough.
[3:38] He does a hell of a good story.
[3:41] Well, as a backstop to the columnists, the point is whether we really want to keep this issue going or not.
[3:50] I'm not so sure that it's going to keep alive and all that stuff.
[3:54] It's bound to, Mr. President, because the fight over the funds and the Congress, the foreign aid bill, which I don't know whether they recommitted, but they were going to recommit this morning.
[4:05] Back in the hearings, the issue won't go away.
[4:09] The important thing from our standpoint, I think, is twofold.
[4:13] One is to show your reaction, as you have, properly to the conduct of the United Nations and the way they handled it.
[4:23] Secondly, to show that we made it as hard a fight as we possibly could.
[4:27] And that it wasn't what- Let me say, I see no harm if you get around basically friendly conservative columns.
[4:36] Bush just goes in and says, I got Lee Faulkner and I'm gonna take this business line down.
[4:45] Do it, do it on the basis that you're in town and you'd like to come in.
[4:56] I have a very informal, maybe a Black House cocktail or something like that.
[4:59] Okay?
[5:00] Yeah.
[5:00] So this is too, you might want to talk to Bush here.
[5:02] You can sort of blow and blow and sort of... Well, that's what it basically was.
[5:05] I thought it was like Bill White and Jim Kilpatrick who write here and down who don't get to see Bush.
[5:09] I think it's good.
[5:10] He does a very good job of showing enthusiasm.
[5:29] He's a very good fighter and a lot of spunk.
[5:39] He'll persuade some of these folks.
[5:48] This will raise up some of our friends on the United Nations side.
[5:51] That's all right.
[5:55] They're not my friends, basically.
[5:57] But on the other hand, you know, some of those guys stepped out too quickly and broke, frankly, a modest portion of the program in person.
[5:59] And the rest of us have been so open to supporting the United Nations regardless of what they're getting filled with.
[6:03] Bill, Bill Quainty never signed a letter.
[6:05] And...
[6:06] Then I read him the letter and he said, Jesus, maybe I signed that.
[6:09] The letter was very ambiguously worded.
[6:13] And in any event, he was going to renounce it today at noon.
[6:17] I haven't seen anything, but I wrote him a speech last night, which he got.
[6:22] The letter was written before the vote was...
[6:24] Yes, sir.
[6:25] The letter...
[6:26] He was basing it on the conduct of his office.
[6:29] Exactly what I told him and what he said he would do.
[6:31] He thinks that someone in his office may have put his name on it without his...
[6:36] And when I read it to him, I must say that it was a cleverly worded letter that Matthias is a clever son of a bitch.
[6:44] He said, we endorse the position of the Secretary of State.
[6:49] We also support the UN, and then went on and did it very backhandedly.
[6:53] So I think Bill would have sucked into it.
[6:55] Any of that, but you know what?
[6:58] I think Dole should, as a matter of procedure, from now on, he is the national chairman, not just the senator.
[7:10] As a matter of procedure, I just want to say, just for his own guidance, that he really ought to check letters of that sort.
[7:16] That goes a long way without checking the White House.
[7:23] And actually, he can't go on and say, I'm doing this.
[7:27] But if he does go on without her, he should say, I'm doing this as a senator and not as a national champion.
[7:34] You see what I mean?
[7:35] Yes, sir.
[7:35] Because otherwise, they're going to use it all.
[7:37] As they did on the city.
[7:39] He's got to be ready.
[7:41] He's got every right to be.
[7:41] Say what you want.
[7:42] Sometimes he does.
[7:43] He'll often call and say what.
[7:45] I'm afraid to be right, Dennis, that we shouldn't just pass training completely.
[7:53] But I don't mean to be bad, but I think on the matter of this part, we should probably be calm.
[8:04] Well, I think... Have you heard five seconds ago, didn't Brooke tell you that the U.N. could have got a nickel up there yesterday?
[8:08] You told me yesterday, you said there's no way you could get five seconds passed through this body today if the U.N.
[8:14] He said, I support it.
[8:15] I always have, and I'll continue to say I do.
[8:17] But he said, I'll tell you that the sentiment around here is just extraordinarily bad towards the U.S.
[8:24] The feelings are very, very high.
[8:27] So he took his party line last night at his fundraising.
[8:32] He also, I've had many reports with 2,000 people, and he had Tricia and Ed there last night.
[8:40] And he spent a large part of the speech talking about you
[8:45] very strong supporting speech and Elliot Richardson until was absolutely eloquent for seven minutes about Richard Nixon barely talked about Brooke but and extremely well well received a crowd that you'd expect to be well received but apparently a very good evening feelings running very good very good
[9:14] Well, the U.N., they just fired out, I think, from what I've seen, looking at the news on your analysis last night, you're not right.
[9:33] You know, there were a few political pop shots, but our Democratic friends are in a hell of a spot because most of them favor exactly what happened.
[9:37] That's right.
[9:37] Don't they?
[9:38] They're never for Taiwan anyway.
[9:39] No, and those that try to point you, their reasoning is so twisted that it's very hard for them to make a plausible case.
[9:43] Stevenson was saying, well, it was all these years of keeping Taiwan out, keeping China out.
[9:53] How was that?
[9:55] That kind of criticism hasn't caught hold of me.
[9:59] And I think we're all right with the conservatives, particularly with this.
[10:01] I think this, frankly, brings them right back into the...
[10:08] They like rhetoric.
[10:09] They frankly like to see you take the gloves off and be a...
[10:13] vigorous leader.
[10:13] I think the reason that they have been sending out the peace treaty lately, as they have, is that you've been tough, and they like to see they more than, even more than average citizens.
[10:28] Well, we'll have to, as I say, get some flack on this now.
[10:33] We'll get flack on the U.N. types.
[10:37] Meany hit the U.N. hard today.
[10:40] and only took a passing blow at the fact that he had warned that this would happen when you made your announcement to him.
[10:49] He came to you right now.
[10:54] Tom, how are you getting along?
[10:56] Have you talked with Kraken yet?
[10:57] Have you gotten to get his morale up?
[11:00] I made a date with him, and he's waiting to see me.
[11:03] I'll be seeing him in just a little while.
[11:05] But I think the main thing there with him is that he's a great lawman, totally honest and so forth, but if he is all the way down, the way down, what I mean is that it just affects everyone.
[11:26] It does.
[11:26] I mean, here, he sends over to Connolly, and there's a variation in the commentary, of course, between, well, it's got to be part of Connolly to keep his spirits up when his counsel is saying, God damn it, as I said, I'm not, I don't want him to fake any figures, but I do feel that...
[11:35] that McCracken has signed, all of them have got to be a little more like comedy.
[11:41] Well, you used an excellent analogy, Mr. President, because I saw you Saturday, and I know you weren't feeling well, but you never let anybody know that.
[11:50] You're always up when you've got a cold, and you've got to show the polls got to understand that.
[11:57] You've got to think, well, we're doing great, and he should talk this way and try to see the positive side of this development.
[12:17] If his idea came out, I'd go at it.
[12:19] He can be sure I'm prepared.
[12:20] We've got that thing on the time.
[12:20] We can.
[12:21] I could take it for granted.
[12:21] I like the numbers going down, like the stock market going down, so forth and so on.
[12:23] What the hell?
[12:23] Paul is a farm boy.
[12:25] He grew up on a farm.
[12:27] And he's got that... Just down with her.
[12:33] Well, he's a dedicated ideologue as far as we're concerned.
[12:40] I mean, he's...
[12:41] Totally on our side.
[12:42] So I think if I just...
[12:44] I've got to explain to Paul the impact he has on other people, which he doesn't appreciate, surely.
[12:50] But he does, got it?
[12:51] It's...
[12:53] It's amazing.
[12:53] We talked about the balance of trade this morning, and we have a good month.
[12:58] We have a surplus.
[13:00] Being announced this afternoon, $250 million.
[13:03] I said, Paul, can we claim some credit for the import surcharge?
[13:09] And he said, well, no, I don't really think so.
[13:12] He said, the docs strike.
[13:14] I said, well, couldn't it have had some effect?
[13:16] Oh, yes.
[13:17] He said, it had some.
[13:18] He said, it's very difficult to measure.
[13:20] Well...
[13:22] You know, it's so easy to say, of course it had an effect.
[13:26] Who knows, really?
[13:29] The general report is a check on the economy.
[13:41] You said everything was correct.
[13:43] The third quarter was a depressed sign.
[13:44] Although it was good, I mean, let's face it, it's only a question of comparison.
[13:47] But nevertheless, on the other hand, a lot of all goods, house and retail sales still move about some on a pretty good shape now.
[13:51] Yes.
[13:51] Retail sales...
[13:51] They've just actually done a revision.
[13:57] Going back over a period of time, they caused a reduction over the early part of the year and the last part of last year.
[14:04] But just one thing that they're putting out today I think is significant.
[14:08] Total sales of all retail sewers in the United States for August 1971 had been estimated at $33.8 billion.
[14:15] After these new adjustments, total sales for August were in fact $34.6 billion.
[14:20] a hell of a difference.
[14:21] This adjusted figure is 2.5% above July.
[14:25] Remember when August came out and I told you it was improved?
[14:29] Now when they've adjusted it, they find it's up 2.5% from July, 9% above August of the year before.
[14:35] Adjusted sales of durable goods were about 4% above July 1971 and 14% above August 1970.
[14:42] So once again, we don't have that yet.
[14:49] Now, they've gone to a new basis of sampling, so probably the press is going to say that we over-employed it, but in the most recent figures... You know, the thing is, Chuck, we hear so many people come in here, businessmen and the rest, and they talk all the time, and they say, well, you're doing this well, don't you?
[15:09] Oh, yeah.
[15:09] It must mean something.
[15:10] That's what Congress said to me yesterday.
[15:12] You don't understand all that.
[15:13] All over the country, the Chamber of Commerce poll I thought was fascinating.
[15:20] Did you hear about that?
[15:24] American businessmen are overwhelmingly in support of President Nixon's new economic program and are increasingly optimistic about the economy the Chamber of Commerce is in today.
[15:34] Seventy-eight percent of the businessmen responding to their third quarter business confidence index poll
[15:41] expressed optimism about the economy.
[15:43] 97% supported President Nixon's 90-day wage price freeze.
[15:48] This compares with 42% who were optimistic and 30% who were neutral or had no opinion in the second quarter.
[15:55] Let me ask something.
[15:57] Let me ask something.
[16:00] Connolly was saying that he felt that one of the major factors that was causing the change in the market was the fact that we had to pay a price to get me to come along.
[16:13] He said, no, I think we're right to do it.
[16:20] I wonder, again, as far as he points out, this is quite true.
[16:28] After the freeze goes off, there's going to be a rocky 60 days, and there's going to be some wage increases that will be a lot.
[16:37] Yet, it's going to be certainly less temple than it was previously.
[16:43] Or it is.
[16:44] Well, it should be now, Richard.
[16:46] We're having a freeze now.
[16:48] I'm thinking, well, we don't have a freeze, and we certainly haven't.
[16:54] You know, we've got some discretion, and then the son of a bitch is going to climb up again.
[16:58] Oh, well.
[16:59] Well, he's right on both counts.
[17:00] We're going to take a little bit of heat when it goes up after the freeze is over.
[17:05] But most of your big settlements are out of the way, Mr. President.
[17:09] Yeah, I'm going to trust him that we just go soon.
[17:14] I just want to see some good numbers going up in terms of the growth of the economy.
[17:27] That's right.
[17:28] Retail sales, that's not bad.
[17:28] It's true.
[17:29] Sittlinger is coming down here Friday for press conference.
[17:33] It's at my suggestion that he wanted to do it.
[17:36] He claims, based on his testing now, that
[17:41] the full effect of the August 15th statement won't be felt, or the actions he took on August 15th, the full effect won't be felt, in terms of their expansionary effect until January, that the consumer psychology is very slowly but very surely turning around, that people should not jump to early conclusions about the September, October, November figures, that the big upturn will come in December and January.
[18:08] Well, that started, wasn't that kind of Harris?
[18:11] That was also Harris.
[18:12] Did Harris say something about, I think you're going to have a big Christmas?
[18:15] Biggest Christmas sales in history, he's predicting.
[18:19] But I don't think, I really, you know, the chamber of commerce, we laugh at it all the time, but... Well, it's mainstream.
[18:27] It's mainstream, exactly.
[18:28] And he saw this for 78% of them to be looking to an upturn.
[18:33] These are not only little manufacturers, but these are merchants and hardware store operators and
[18:39] And they know how the people in their community react.
[18:41] They think it's up right.
[18:45] I just...
[19:02] I think this is great.
[19:11] The people I talked to yesterday were yearning for you to say something like this.
[19:30] And I think it's
[19:32] Exactly.
[19:33] I never believed it was coming off right away.
[19:46] I think it was a, it was welcome.
[19:46] You never saw that.
[19:50] I saw it again last night.
[19:51] It wasn't bad.
[19:51] It really was bad.
[19:54] And, uh,
[19:55] What did they do?
[20:01] Well, they were dancing, and there was a scene, they zeroed the camera down, and there was a scene of two of them, the black group, I don't know if they're black or Asian, hugging each other, and sort of jumping up and down as they were counting the votes against the United States.
[20:17] It was obvious from the commentary that they were just rebelling against us.
[20:19] But that's why this is so in tune.
[20:20] Well, you didn't give me that.
[20:21] Yeah, right.
[20:21] Thank you, sir.