Conversation 604-009

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So, what I'm asking you to do, if you will talk to the boat, and change the order to what's necessary, will you do that, please?

And you might, if you might do this, I don't want to say anything.

And you might, if you do feel this way, you might need to call Tom and I and call you that you're working on it.

Because I've told you that that's about this 530.

I'm going to lawyer you right now.

You know, I'm just trying to buy time.

So if you could do that, please.

All right.

Thank you.

He doesn't pay for it.

He wasn't in for operation today.

He's not ready to drop the rope?

No, no, no.

As a matter of fact, there's a problem.

They're not all in.

They have to be in favor.

That's right, sir.

I didn't know we were talking tonight.

That word is not allowed now, sir.

He's playing games on that.

He doesn't want to be late for this.

He wants to be late for everything.

Well, I've heard of Charles Schultz.

I don't know whether that's true or not, except for Charles Schultz.

I've heard of him, and Charles Schultz is one of us.

Well, he's made this argument right from the beginning.

Right.

It's all being corrected.

It's been something.

He didn't call Rumsfeld.

He didn't call Hobbes.

You know, this is a game he's playing.

He's going to deal with the oppressive.

Well, I'll deal with anybody.

I'll deal with the devil until hell.

But, you know what I mean.

That's the way it works sometimes.

That was a very interesting discussion, wasn't it?

That's a very interesting discussion.

It is.

I was interested in him, particularly in him.

I wanted to get Connolly's political direction.

Connolly interested in him.

I was concerned about the taxes increase.

I thought, you know, he would be.

Pat Wagner was very concerned about it, many are.

I can always talk to the balance, but I can kind of just balls out to the balance, but it isn't any cost in any way.

Well, I can talk to that.

You've got a balance.

Well...

I mean, Constance says you just, you've got to balance.

Well, how do you do it?

Well, if you're talking about a full point of balance, that we will do.

But that is not a balanced question.

What do you really want?

Is it real balance?

I'd like to have a real balance, too, but if you do that, you've got to raise patches and do it.

And I, I don't know.

Do you think that's worth it?

No, I think that's a healthy comment.

I'm not sure.

We all talk about what's been on the slide for as long as 90 years.

Confidence for the business community.

I don't know.

This wasn't a business community.

Nothing gives them confidence that I can see something that's going to move at the proper time or hold that.

Number two.

I must say though, that I was glad to see Collins working on the parochial school.

I think all of our actors seem to be interested in that problem.

The Domestic Council is just dedicated against the parochial school.

Why?

I don't know.

But they, you know, all those, that guy, who's that guy that writes their papers about?

Morey.

Morey and Hector.

Yeah.

I said the guy at the end of the story.

That is...

Because I believe in private education.

Right, I also like it.

I think it has a hell of a bad appeal to a lot of people.

You can send the thing over to the folks.

I sent the folks to pull it out the way they do.

They're not pulling it accurate.

They're not pulling it right the way they're asking them.

Let me say this.

They're not pulling it directly.

Why not?

They say that everybody wants education.

We're going to sign that.

How do we start to deal with that?

Because people are pissed off at education.

They want better education.

They want better run education.

They don't want more money for these parks that are running the education system than what you should ask that I sat around on the table with you.

All they're asking for more money to run this thing all the way.

That's all.

Yeah, the eventual concern of the school building is not valid from here on out.

Because at least in the short term, they're sure the school building is going to go way down and not up.

Well, one good thing in person came out of this.

There are 66 million homeowners in the United States.

Every one of them has to pay property taxes.

Two-thirds are unoccupied, the other third are rented.

But you've got somewhere around 45 million people that pay rent.

And the simple fact is, Mr. President, that this approach today gets at two gut political problems, gut political issues that affect what I think is our constituency now, or a changed constituency.

One is the tax issue, which is a burning one, and the other one with maybe two to three million people

But, which is why it doesn't show in a poll.

It's a small group, but it's a group that can be one, is the 8th and Prokiel School.

That is just a...

When you ask a Catholic or look at a poll, what do you think the issue is?

Naturally, Catholics are going to come up with the same issues.

They don't think we need, when you have Harper, when Harper came up with that, they're always going to say the same things that people do because they're people.

People.

But you still, you get at the Catholic, if you are kind of sophisticated, I'll let you know.

I'll let you know.

By the point that I was making for the benefit, and I was very kind to Connelly and John, both of them, and all the rest.

But I was telling the God damn truth.

There ain't a vote in Revolutionary or government reorganization, or for that matter, welfare reform.

Welfare reform is a vote not for bandit assistance, such as I am, just the audience knows, and earlier than all thought was a hell of a vote at the time, just the audience, but it's, they, it's welfare reform only because they're against welfare, against welfare reform.

And so we don't have anything that is a gut issue now.

At least this broken school is a straight-out gut issue.

Somebody's going to get some money.

The property tax, that's a gut issue.

Enough votes in Pennsylvania to win the election.

Enough votes in Illinois to make sure we hold it.

Enough votes in New Jersey to make sure we hold it.

The other thing, Mr. President, when we filed that brief in the Supreme Court on the Pennsylvania case,

We expected all kinds of hell from the Bible Belt.

We didn't hear from a, we didn't hear a peep out of it.

Now, that was an overt action the first time the federal government has gone in.

Well, actually, I made my comment there the other night.

I've got a few letters, but not many.

No, very few.

Not too much, God damn it.

I believe, but let's forget it.

I believe, and I've got to do some things in it, I believe, and not go for these God damn idiots.

We have a very valid case for that that has nothing to do with helping Catholics or parochial schools, which is to save the goddamn public schools.

That's right.

What's what?

Four million dollars for the Catholics.

We can get some more cases out of it.

Some of the barishes where they closed the parochial school and then here in some of the public school systems because they had to close the parochial school right now.

The other thing, Mr. President, when the issue was debated in Pennsylvania, there are areas of Pennsylvania, as you know, that are as tough as the Bible Belt.

They went overwhelmingly to aid the parochial schools because of the issue, that it would absolutely cripple them.

in terms of the public and it keeps the Catholic kids in the Catholic schools and they voted in Pennsylvania right across the board for it so I don't it helps us

in the states where we desperately need help.

And it won't hurt us that much in the states, because they'll vote for it for other reasons.

It'll hurt you in Oklahoma, so you'll get only 63%, 68%.

Not in Oklahoma, too.

We've got to remember, we'll get ahead of Billy Graham before this thing goes in.

Now, Billy, we've got to do this, because it's going to break the positive schools and the rest.

And Billy will abuse a lot of it.

And have Billy acknowledge, when I get out of his term, look,

that place in the middle, a lot of Catholics won't likely agree with me, sir.

Or an armistice of people, sir.

Yeah, I'm good enough for the Catholics, for the Protestants.

And I am one.

I know I should do so for the Catholics, but I can't imagine that you're going to lose enough votes to matter anywhere.

You can, and I have worked up a little thesis.

You're being a Protestant, and your opponent being likely a Catholic.

Yeah.

You can have the best of both ways if you are a Protestant.

But you can do things for the Catholic schools and for the professional Catholics that a Catholic candidate cannot try.

Muskie has already waffled on this issue.

Kennedy is against aid to parochial schools.

Jack Kennedy wouldn't touch the issue.

And a hell of a case could be made in those areas with the help of Crook and Crowell.

I get any questions.

I say, all right, this is what we're going to do.

Let's work on this.

They're already doing it.

The one thing about this approach that we have to be careful is to not let it be a revenue-sharing approach.

It can't be federal money passed out.

It's got to come directly so that that was the worry I see in it.

It can't be revenue-sharing.

It's got to be direct tax relief somehow to the individual homeowner.

And if it's that, you could have a winning issue.

Well, that's why it has to be required to get people free.

One of their farms, of course, it's amazing how the domestic council comes up always in this way.

They said, well, these cities and so forth so desperately need that help that we ought to just pass the money back to the education and then they'll have more money in their budget for purposes of indirect revenue sharing.

I said, John, forget it.

There's no votes in revenue sharing for us.

None.

Don't you agree?

But they can't see what's in it for them.

So we just go around and say we're for it.

We'll have an issue on it.

We'll let people gamble, gamble, gamble about it.

I think we're going to have an issue.

You realize there's a lot of nice Columbus chapters.

There may be a million and a half of them, aren't there?

You go into every nice Columbus chapter, you'll notice that audience has let out an animal-like roar because they're going to help their schools.

Well, God, they're going to be more so.

It's an emotional experience, isn't it?

I don't think I ever sent it in to you, but after your Knights of Columbus speech, the front page of every Catholic Archdiocese, my God, they just, they've been calling you every week.

You've got the other gut issues locked, as far as they're concerned.

The Catholics, basically, are not a... No, but they're not permissive.

They are... Well, they may not like it, but they're going to do what they do.

And the point is, there's nobody that can be opposing them.

That's the other side of the coin, do you realize that?

And they know, they know someone's gonna go to China someday, and they know that no longer that you knew that you were hungry, or it must have also frankly affected the hero thing, but it's just, we haven't done anything on it, but just saying something on a show that we care about the goddamn thing.

George Bush called, he's going on backups, he had a speech tonight up there, and they're not having any plundering sessions, so his absence would not accomplish anything anyway.

He wanted you to know that he could be of substantial help in turning this thing politically.

as far as your problems with the right wing and all, and he still has some pretty good right wing credentials himself.

Sure.

That he plans to use them.

Well, good.

You're going to hand it back, aren't you?

He'll do some background.

He'll do some foreground.

He's going on issues, isn't he?

Yes, and with Buckley.

You told him about this firing line.

You told him what I had said, though, that I had criticized the goal.

The confidence of those people was so terrible.

He saw what you said today, and he said he thought you were absolutely right.

Was he there?

What did he mean of himself?

He was very distressed by that.

He said, you were absolutely right to hit him.

He said, that was, he said, he was trying to hit him hard publicly so that he, because he can't do anything, you know, on a therapy.

But he says, I hope to God he puts the screw to those people that shafted us.

He said, that's, and I said, you know what he said?

You know what, we can't talk about that.

Let's just do it.

I called Mr. Durant.

I said, all right, you know how much of your sole meticulousness you've done here?

And I said, you have to get there.

You voted for us, and we're going to reward you where we can.

And everyone who voted against us, we're going to punish where we can.

Here it is.

We can do it.

I'll get the bill here.

The judge said,

Good, I'm glad you said that.

I said, propose a reward and punishment to U.N. vote.

There, that's an historical note.

By God, we're going to do it.

We're going to do it.

that one of those black bastards voted against his ass and I didn't see me.

Never will they cross the threshold with this room again, one of those movie countries.

Botswana and some of those others.

Screw them.

Never.

I'll see Don because they voted with us.

But I'm going to see Botswana.

Now, of course, you've got to see him.

He lives in France and the rest of that has something else to do.

But I'll be gone then.

Cool me over the next time they barge in on me.

Because they should have voted with us.

They didn't have the reason to vote with the other one.

They decided that that's where their vision was wrong.

All right.

But he doesn't want me to say it, though.

He knows I can't say it.

No, he said no, but he agreed with what I said to these bastards.

He said we've got to show these countries that they can't get away with pulling this double-crossing.

Especially the ones that double-cross.

We relied on people's words, and they looked me right in the eye and said what they did, and then they didn't do it.

Would you enhance his credibility by...

By carrying out an intervention, you make them that much more effective.

Well, by punishing the innocent.

Ask Henry to do this.

I want Bush on a confidential basis to get it done.

The list of the kinds he particularly wants to have shot, you know, just give us a list.

And after we come to that, I want it on a piece of, I just want it on a piece of blank paper.

Go ahead and send it to me.

And the list of those that he really feels something, we ought to do something for.

But he knew that he can't get to that stage and never go against them.

Poor Lisa, that poor stuff.

They were so soft in the head.

But I guess particularly I haven't accomplished it for so many years that I don't know where I am.

But for Christ's sake, do you know how many people Botswana's got?

It turns out to be a country.

They put it in there, the buffer to South Africa.

As Henry said, it's a desert land.

They have 300,000 people.

And Botswana, Botswana, didn't destroy it.

We created the goddamn place.

How many people has quaint are in it?

I didn't even know there was one.

I saw two or three hundred.

250,000.

I had never heard of the country.

There they were.

Well, I'll tell you, I went well with getting some criticism for this thing.

We'll get some.

But the reason I do love it now, and then you're going to call it off and be a little too much.

George said it was good.

George said, he said, you'll get it.

He said, the New York Times will take, you know, just blast the president on this thing.

Sure.

He said, that's what I'm supposed to do.

It's just fine.

It's what you want.

You reckon that's just fine, doesn't it?

Yep.

Because he says it's true, and he said, well, but he also said you can't, you've got to, you need to do something like that, just to set that in once, and make the point with the conservatives, let them know you care.

Well, all the, all the fellows that I've been talking to, particularly the BFW, they're all thrilled.

Well, the president has said it for us now.

One thing is, that's what they want.

George, George did say that, which I,

He stopped him and he said, if there's any question here, I'll say, you know, that I get the blame on this, not the president.

I said, oh, George, don't ever take that position.

The president's whole line has been that they must not blame Bush or Rogers for this, that they did a superb job of fighting for the U.N.

They were shafted by the U.N. That's where fighting for the U.N.

Blame the U.N. members, Tom.

Don't take any blame.

So he said, okay, fine.

The President said it for us.

I mean, that's exactly what we like to tell those bastards up there.

And, you know, thank God, he said, he gave us an escape note rather than what a lot of the... Well, it's kind of like this, Kelly.

Yeah.

It's not a big issue, but it's kind of like everybody said, oh, Jesus Christ, what the hell, they're going to kick us around.

They expect us to say something, you know what I mean?

Yeah, you're saying it for them.

Yeah, you can't just say that we regret the vote, and Rogers has got to say that.

But I've got to say that I thought it was a damn shocking performance, and it was, for countries not just to vote against us.

But to glee, to gloat, to gleeful...

I mean, I later forgot your reaction when it went out and it started just as long ago.

I guess you got into something yet.

He's got some good ones.

He's got glee.

The clapping, undignified actions, the...

I'm not worried about the United Nations.

Undisguised glee and personal animosity on the personal level.

Personal animosity.

certain delegates towards the U.S. That's great.

That's good stuff.

He had it.

He really had it.

He's good this way.

He got it very well.

Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking on this tax thing, and I've heard some sluggish things now.

I have a point that we ought to go to.

It's so, if we could get it all down to the...

to a way to, or let's get to where it's frankly just a cold political issue.

We only expect it to pass.

So let's face it, we'll lay it out there and say that, I mean, call it a property tax relief act.

I think that's better than homeowners relief act.

I think, don't you think everybody knows what the property tax is?

I think so.

That's what it's called everywhere.

Property tax is when you get the bill, it's known as your property tax.

Property tax relief act.

And that's for the parole schools.

That's just another thing the property tax should be back.

Well, the thing you have to bring up front is the property tax.

And the education issue is...

It really is a device.

It's really going to be all the jackasses in education support, to the extent they will.

I do not believe, I've talked to John about this earlier, that we can expect as much support as he expects.

Because basically, they are so left-wing, socialistic,

that they just aren't going to be forced.

Remember, Bob, you remember getting some better, we always thought, let's face it, not let's face it, you're never a revolutionary, a welfare reform, a welfare reform.

I said, you know, all liberals are going to support you because of this.

Shouldn't they then be supporting us because of it?

No, they, well, they supported revenue sharing.

I know, but not for you.

and existence.

Do you agree?

Absolutely.

The only thing they support.

These issues are only good as indicating that, well, maybe we're thinking progressively, but we've done enough progressive thinking.

Now we're going to think politically.

Well, they have had the value of having a positive thing of yours up there that they've had to argue.

And I've fought out of it.

I've fought out of it.

Yes, sir.

And you've preempted all the issues.

All the issues they debate are your issues, which is, which has value.

It's much better than us being on the defensive on why we aren't doing such and such.

They'll say, now you've got to increase your taxes, raise your taxes, and raise your prices, and everything like that.

And we say, property tax relief.

Property tax relief.

Be quiet for a minute.

What about the act?

The tax not only raises taxes.

Well, it doesn't raise taxes, actually.

It raises prices.

It raises, you know, a hell of a lot of that is absorbed.

It doesn't quite work that way.

No, it has benefits in terms of international credit.

Right.

Every other country has.

It appeals to the people who are concerned about foreign competition.

I think Colin's right.

People don't worry as much about hidden taxes.

If they pay a little bit more for a washing machine or things they buy, that's not so bad.

But that property tax, you're going to know it.

And raising prices is, you know, people expect prices to go up.

Prices go up anyway.

They just go up.

Well, if they can't... We're having a success argument in the crack today.

I spent an hour at his prison, and we...

He doesn't really love you.

Yeah.

He doesn't even think about you.

No.

Not much.

He just sent you his reading indicators.

He thinks things are flat, and he believes that they will go up next year, but not as much as we say.

He thinks it's politically counterproductive for us to talk.

the economy up.

He thinks that's dangerous.

He wants you to talk it down?

Yep.

He said, when good news comes out, we should say, well, it's only one month.

And when bad news comes out, then we can say, well, that's only one month.

Well, that's a school of thought that other people have.

It's not great for the economists, but it's not great for the people.

But you've got to say, when good news comes out, this is great.

When bad news comes out, you've got to say, it doesn't mean anything.

Well, I've got to...

It's like the other... Take the cue from them.

What do the people against us do?

When bad news comes out, they leap all over.

When good news comes out, they ignore it.

Well, I then, I kind of got down to the nut cutting with Paul and told him exactly the problem.

I said, I think, I really think, he asked whether his speeches outside had been negative.

And I said, no, in fact, the last one I saw was good.

But his attitude just has a very harmful effect on others.

He said, well, maybe I shouldn't express my opinions except to the president.

and he said i and he said maybe i should do it too he got the point he knew i was you know what i was saying and i doubt that you're going to find paul going out and leading a period section tomorrow it's going to come at the right time we're just comfortable in the right time i should have went

I showed him this press release because I met him right after I was in with you, the one of the Chamber of Commerce, which shows that 78% of the businessmen now feel that the economy is turning up in the second quarter and 42% of the Chamber of Commerce folks.

But you see, he takes your letter this week and he does it every week.

There's no great friends.

But he starts out and he says things are moving up steadily and slowly.

There's no question that 72 is going to be a golden year.

The council, according to that, the council is bearish.

I said this to Paul and he said, well, you can't really put too much back in there.

Well, let's see.

The potential is all there, it can just let loose and rather just keep the money flowing.

I think our current money supply is having a chilling effect.

Terrible.

The market was off again today and when I talk to people they say it's off again.

It was off at 5 or 6 and I don't think I got the place.

It was down 5 at midday.

And it didn't go up like that.

But that's liquidity.

They're worried about a shrunken money supply.

George Schultz has prepared some charts for you.

Markets ain't worried about it.

It's got 100 points to go up.

That's the way to look at it.

If you start moving at 10, it's worried.

It's just one of those things.

But you know, the thing is that we've done all the same things that people want.

And you can't talk people talk.

I don't say that in all sense.

You can't talk people into comments.

You've got this problem that your market people are constrained to read a cap, and the business people

But that Chamber of Commerce thing, there are a lot of that sort of thing around.

Do you agree about it or not?

Yeah.

Well, everybody knows people deal well.

Are you there?

Don't we hear?

Yeah.

So, let's... We hear it from everybody.

You know how this describes everybody's feeling good?

Okay, it takes time for that to be reflected.

That doesn't... That's where it's coming from.

It takes time for it to be reflected.

He thinks December... Well, he thinks it's coming now.

He thinks...

He said it's sort of similar here.

It was coming around similarly.

It says it won't come until January, but...

Harris says it is rising out of consumer confidence.

And this kind of thing, these are the little shopkeepers, basically, who really test the public orders every day.

I think the mood is dramatically different across the country in the last 90 days.

I think we need the U.N. thing where it is now.

That's all right to me.

That question was a little background-y.

But as far as I'm concerned, I'd slap the bastards and I'll catch some hell for it, which I do look like I fairly expect to, but I want to, right?

Huh?

I think in exactly the right way.

I don't think they have, but they just didn't need to slap the United States that way.

People hate to die, you know, obviously.

I mean, except among our set, I mean, what I call the intellectual set.

I mean, they came down and had a damn good event, but my God, they all were both bought two tables of even spices and got down.

But, you know, because it's the thing to do.

But don't ever bring that.

Now, that's the proclamation.

I stopped that one.

I'm never going to sign another U.S. promulgation.

No more.

I'm just not going to do it.

It's the way to fix them.

It fixed their way.

After all, we cannot submit our faith to a bunch of goddamn cannibals.

That's what this involves.

Representing, when you come right down to it, a minority of the... Well, they don't even...

But the main thing is, let's suppose they have three hundred million people in Africa.

They only have about three brains in the goddamn universe.

That's the truth, sir.

That's the truth.

Nice people, Jesus.

They're like children.

That's the truth.

I guess the domestic council is not aware of that.

I think we've made that point.

Oh, yeah.

I think we can get something out of that.

This really doesn't need a hell of a lot of work.

This is a

Chuck?

Yes, sir.

I guess with the changes that have been in the modern reading indicators, reading remains above the average in the second quarter, unless the recent times are very bright in the first half.

No, well, it's true that they needed to run.

One of those was a stock market commercial.

Three out of the eight were up, five were down.

And our house, home building was one of the keys to get it down, but just because it came off of an ad, it was probably not enough.

And I wrote to him, and I wrote to him, and I told him, I said, well, it really isn't dead.

He said, well, you hung it up, the ad's not working.

I'm not concerned about taxing it.

The main thing is we do something.

If we're forced on it, we'll do it.

And we'll go over to those Catholics and we're up on those.

But that one I didn't find the softest word.

I know that property tax rate for the old folks.

I began my life in working as a mathematician.

And I can tell you where those votes are, what moves are being made.

You can turn on the New York Times.

Who's going to be with us tonight, right?

He says he does.

He's got 500,000 members, and they're tough.

And that's a tough group.

Peter took your nice Columbus speech, and they were recording it.

From me, he didn't even ask for my help.

And Senator Kerry, one of his moments, has been quite inventive.

He's got 80% capital.

But that issue, no one should be mistaken, that issue has a real good appeal to captains because it all brings back memories of their uncle.

Although they were, the captains have been put on by the states that I'm on.

Well, we'll keep this one under curfew.

This citizen, well, I guess he'll get by.

Well, thanks a lot.

And he would just say that Bush was,

Bush approved my statement one night and said exactly what he did.

He said you can catch all the New York Times, but he said that's what everybody deals with.

He said it was a horrible spectacle.

Is that right?

Yes, exactly.

The same thing he said in the statement he's going to go.

And the other day he said, I just hope, he said, I can't say this in the State Department.

He said, I just hope that you will, that the president will.

do something with regard to punishing our enemies and rewarding our friends.

And I said, I'm way ahead of them.

I've got to talk with them.

And I asked them to send me down on a blank sheet of paper the countries that really ought to be punished and lied to that we can't, and the ones that ought to be rewarded.

I'll give it to you, but Henry, this is one thing we're gonna... No, we're gonna apply a punishment, Diane.

We have got to do something to make respect for the United States.

Now, that's Botswana's thing.

As I said, I just told them what you told me.

The goddamn country, 300,000 people, and not one letter in the place.

It's awful.

George Bush, we're in an area where there's several people who have to screw everything.

Yeah.

But, Father Kuyana...

Because the whole strategy was nuts.

Forget it.

Well, how'd you get along with your... Oh, I tell you, they are laughing this stuff up.

They just...

I'm glad you did it on the record.

As a matter of fact, I was talking to Bob, and I told Sabre, too, that I'm going to have now you and I'm going to be the same mother of Johnson.

I'm going to have you do virtually everything on the record.

These sons of bitches, they had a meeting...

Washington bureau chiefs in 19 out of the 25 criticized White House backgrounders on the ground and much of the leadership in the background and so forth.

Well, like I said, it's true that we won't get into the background of this.

We'll put it on the record.

We won't sell it by this much.

If I golly, that's good.

I just don't do it.

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, these press people, I'll just, if you have it on the record, you'll let it approach you.

And frankly, a state doesn't like to let a state go blue, purdy hell.

I'm, we've got, I mean, we've got to fight everything, but they can laugh it up, you know.

This was... Did they go after you on the UN vote?

No.

Yes, they said, how can you explain away the UN vote?

I said, well, first of all, I object to the question.

There's nothing to explain away.

Second, let's get it straight.

The visit was set early in September.

We set it specifically at that time because then we thought the vote would be when it was every other year, which is the middle of November.

So it could not have

Thirdly, it was, I have gone over the list of every country that voted against me, and I defy anybody to produce one single country that changed its vote as a result of that.

Fourthly, it was just as tough for the communist Chinese to talk to us when we were trying to keep them out of

But we were trying to solve the problem on a basis different from what they wanted than for us to talk to them.

What about the positive side?

Oh, the positive side.

First of all, they laughed up.

I played it in this sort of disingenuous way.

You know, what did you discuss?

I gave them some of the technical garbage.

What a presidential trip involves.

And I said how I presented it to them, to them.

and how we had the technical discussions and all of that, and they just couldn't hear enough of it.

Well, how about the press?

I said, well, I don't mind telling you that they couldn't understand some of our press requirements.

For example, why do we need three of everything on television?

And so I said, now, we have...

and they were going to have a very huge order?

Oh, no, no, no.

I said, I'm keeping them timely.

I said, well, now, the Chinese very generously said that they would accept as many presses as their physical facilities permit, but the number hasn't been set yet, and I have to tell you their physical facilities are very limited.

I want them to think that 80 is going to be a tremendous figure.

And they, of course...

And their physical facilities are very limited.

They were very candid in showing them to us.

And the death number will be set on another trip, which we'll take later.

I didn't want to give out any numbers.

And they said... You told them you'd make the announcement the latter day.

I said the announcement would be made the 3rd of December.

And they said, I'll be limply ruled.

I want you to know the trip will be...

not before January 1st.

And the reason I tell you this is so that you don't think this is a previous administration that arrives here every day with your bags packed.

And then they said, well, what about substance?

They, well, they said,

I said, now, first let me make one thing clear.

The President has said repeatedly, last time on Sunday, that he's going there with his eyes open.

Neither the People's Republic nor we are going to change our fundamental philosophies.

We know they're opposed to us in fundamental philosophy.

We know we're just at the very beginning of the trip.

The President has never pretended

that we will do anything else there except to make the beginning of a long journey to bring our two great peoples together.

But we are conscious of our differences and those differences will remain.

I'm just trying to position the communication.

Oh, they laughed that up.

It was almost the best spirit that I've had.

Oh, they, everyone who heard it said,

This was really... Then they asked, well, you're going... Did you discuss Taiwan?

I said, listen, look, gentlemen, you wouldn't believe me if I told you that they embraced Taiwan.

But they stated their position, and they know ours.

And then they said, what other topics did you discuss in here?

I said, I will not discuss any other substantive topic that they ask me about the Soviet Union.

I said, the same thing goes, but let me make a general statement.

The President has announced that on his first press conference he would go to the Soviet Union, and we had some substantive things.

Well, I was going to tell you that I'm going over to... Oh, that road's going on.

Sorry.

I'm going to go over there now, and...

Be ready at 6.30 if you'd like to hop over to the museum.

Okay.

It'll be like 0625.

Yeah.

All right, fine.

It seems wrong to speak like that.

Yeah, yeah.

I think you should be pleased with the fact that I let Sigrid say that I thought the conduct of the U.S. people was disgusting.

It really was.

You know, and... All your people called for you then.

Yeah, it was like the antics of college.

I said this for the benefit of...

Well, now, for the benefit of the brief, I said we have a long agenda of issues to discuss with them, a long agenda of issues to discuss with the People's Republic.

We have enough in our bilateral relations.

Nothing we do is directed against, you know, the usual stuff against the countries.

And they said, well, are you trying to tell us that you won't discuss Vietnam?

I said, gentlemen, I told you we won't discuss some of the issues.

But we expect to settle the war with Hanoi, not with Peking.

And they have their love in Peking, and their love in Hanoi, and it doesn't cost us anything because that's what we expected to say.

I think it's a matter of fact, George.

I think this is the end as far as Hanoi is concerned.

They're either going to come down or

I may be smoking pot, but I think they're coming.

They're coming.