On October 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Stephen B. Bull, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:40 am to 10:35 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 607-004 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
See, you don't realize that those things can be able to be in the people that are there.
In fact, she was just, she'll float on air for five years after that.
You know, I always think it's just amazing that you know that they appreciate each other.
We've just, we've just so been doing all the time.
But I remember even when I was here as Vice President, I never felt that
But for anybody who came, I mean, they just sit there gawking, and you don't have to do anything for them.
You don't have to say anything.
You don't have to speak to them.
Go into the receiving line.
And then, hell, we didn't have the strong strengths in those days.
We did not have the strong strengths.
And we didn't always have entertainment.
Entertainment was the exception other than the rule.
And they never had dancing instruments.
And they didn't have the trumpets.
Believe me, that was all.
We did this.
We did this.
I mean, that pageantry is all.
Pageantry is really marvelous.
It adds a great deal to it.
It really does.
But that last night was sure the way to do the entertainment, too.
Ted does.
Sure, actually, everybody enjoyed having him.
It happened that she, when I saw her, I was wondering about the surprise.
She was marvelous.
I mean, I have a very good ear, and I can see why they've never heard it every time since she has.
Thank you.
She has absolutely no nothing that is off, no notes are off, but she's got body.
She's got a rare body.
She doesn't have that in-voice that so many sopranos have, that in-voice that is her, and she doesn't notice it.
She's not a big fat one, yet.
But boy, she's something there.
She's a good-looking girl.
I don't think she is going to be robust yet.
But I thought she was really a sensation, didn't you?
Yep.
And she was one of those.
But I thought it was a great enough group.
I don't know whether it was us or her, but you've got five numbers.
You've got five numbers equipped.
It's much better than, you know, like all those others, Peggy Lee and all those people that go on and on and on forever.
And everybody...
If they'd all quit after five numbers, they'd quit on a very big number.
Everybody was there.
She'd sing another song.
And that's right.
Where you want to go, instead of Christchurch, you're not quitting.
You're not.
You're not.
You're not.
You're not.
You're not.
Everybody else loves you.
They thoroughly enjoy you.
What if you could get a picture of us?
She has a picture, a certificate, and she gives us a notari.
which is the main thing she's in, you know.
That's a command performance.
What a great job those social needs did too.
Mother was, you know, after that she was terribly worried
She had lost the social aid that had come up to her and said, I know Mrs. Ross would like to meet you.
You know, this guy's channeling out so beautifully and getting the people down the road.
You know, they pick them up.
And you don't realize what that means to people, too.
She said they kind of gave her the feeling that Mrs. Ross had called them over and said, I'd like to meet Mrs. Holland and chat with her for a few minutes.
You know?
And it just...
They're very well done.
All two cells there on the side.
Practically the same.
We have a fresh box of those tobacco cigars.
A whole box.
We have a whole box.
Just like a can.
The way he smokes his cigar.
He's got color.
He's got color and he's got a lot of presence.
He's got a lot of presence.
I've been in more places than he has, but it's presence.
He has been to more places than anybody in the world.
Has he?
When?
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
When he was in Alaska.
The old man talks to everybody, and they all talk to him.
He loves it.
You're just thinking the whole country, you know, they're youthful.
They're not at all a mixture of Croatian, Turkish, and the rest.
So, in fact, they fight well.
They're not much of a people.
So, I thought they, they are, they're, well, they're sure distinctive looking people.
There's a racial characteristic.
You see that every one of the Yugoslavs just stands out.
Got a face.
I sure swear, a face.
Fuck, fuck, fuck the audience.
Fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fuck each other.
Fuck each other.
Fuck each other.
Fuck each other.
Fuck each other.
Fuck each other.
We have all those people up here today.
So from that one in the room.
And he has to go on a heartless list of his miserable life.
He's expected to be that.
He just has Paul naturally as undersecretary and so forth.
But he doesn't realize it.
That's all.
Does he know that it's a great job?
Yes, he suggests it, Johnson.
Oh, it's hard to get a guarantee.
But later, Whittaker doesn't know that we're seriously, didn't know that we were seriously considering.
Well, I was seriously considering him, and I don't think that Johnson has even had a baby.
I'll take it.
I've got a line that I'm trying to get a firm reading of.
It looks as if he probably hasn't actually had a farm, but he's a graduate in agricultural science, says it was his college major.
He had the farm implement business.
He was also a chicken feeder business guy of some kind.
He ran a farmer's accounting service type of business and a lot of things like that.
He was the one who suggested Johnson.
That's where it came from.
He was just trying to think of all the people that would be remote possibilities.
And that guy was head of our foundation.
And did the development.
Yeah.
I'll tell you why you're my life.
They're big, good-looking, gunny kids.
He talks well.
He's got a big voice.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I just want to go off to Turkey and this meeting
He's got to resign.
He's become not his head, but his appearance.
He looks like he's 100 years old now.
And he just got to know him.
He's such a nice guy.
I hope to Christ somebody can talk to him.
Well, if you want to, if you do, there's a big difference in that.
Look, he's younger actually than Tino is.
How old is he?
Is he 76 or something like that?
Tito's 69.
Tito's 78.
This follow-up is about...
68.
Was he only six years or not?
He just reached, or he reached his seventh birthday.
He just reached his seventh.
Oh, I thought he was in his seventh.
Oh, hell, it looks like he's in his seventies.
But he does.
He does.
And something has happened to him there.
But Jesus Christ Almighty is the most amazing, incredible, strong.
And he really is.
God, you just have no feeling of this.
And I think everybody in the tables loves to watch it.
He's one of the big names here.
I told Scott about that bull that was talking to him.
It really was.
Christ already.
We lost that bull.
Jesus Christ.
Unbelievable.
Bob Bird was very helpful in that.
If you want an excuse, you can call him.
Does he help you, Reese?
Yes.
He said he worked on it.
It seems that it was extremely helpful.
Gee, I said, there's got to be one.
There's Christ in these guys.
They're doing it, I said.
If you struggle to go to church, and the roads can't go where you want them to, the bikes can't go where you want them to, they want us to lose them.
They're just desperately trying to find ways for them to get credit for having to force you to do what you're not ready to do.
The book is a very major deal.
He's just terribly depressed about not depressed concern.
He should be depressed.
He's not depressed.
That's wrong.
He's very concerned and he's on the basis that he just
He gets frustrated and he says, I don't see how we can live with this.
I don't see how I can keep going on this.
The guy, what he's always afraid of, and he overplays his line on that, is that he's going to blow it up.
He said he's going to sink this trip because that's what he's out to do.
No matter how many people he wants to sink the trip, I don't see how he can.
But maybe he can.
Henry's afraid he can't.
I don't see an answer.
I don't see how we deal with it.
Then he goes back to this thing which he just can't get himself off of, making the case that Robert was sent back on that road.
He's totally convinced of that, that it was a maneuver that forced the boat before Henry came back, and it forced Henry to stay over there for a day or two.
He's convinced that it's not about your plot in order to end the China loss.
And he argues that had they delayed the vote a week and Henry got back, he probably would have won the vote.
And he would have gotten a good week's story first on the China trip.
So he could get a good week's story on the China trip anyway, if he sent me out.
It would have been better for him.
I think what made the best risk for him off of the East would be the story about the China trip.
Every politician, whether they always think that the third or second time around is going to be the same, is never the same.
You never top a performance.
He's done his performance.
And now he's downhill from now on.
After I go to China, the first or second time I'm going to be adopted, that's right.
I mean, he just doesn't have it just done.
Nothing about chance is going to be anything now until he does.
We've got to get him off of the head, though, that he must go in and try again.
I mean, he's nervous.
Jeez, come on, guys.
He's got the water set up, but he'll come in and then come back and eat the flame.
But in that spot there, he just rub it right in the nose of it.
Not necessarily, you know.
He doesn't need to do that.
He can't do it himself.
Then they know he's doing it.
They can send an emissary to him if they need to.
He's got a seven-day trip.
He can be doing that while you go up to the Great Wall.
No, the Great Wall.
He just can't have to sit in there every week.
He's got to be up there.
He's worse than that.
He got tiraded.
On your U.N. statement, why did you do this?
blew things up, saying, what the hell is Henry doing, getting the president to upstage me again, block me off the television again tonight, because, see, that was the day he went up to the Foreign Relations Committee.
Block him off the television.
He wasn't blocked off, but he looked at your statement on the U.N. as being a way of being a device of Henry's to make Nixon news, to tell him what we're going to have to do if I take him to the U.N.
I'm not going to do that.
Plus, Henry was opposed to it.
He was opposed to it.
He was very upset afterwards.
You know, he agreed to it in here, but then he chewed the ground up terribly afterwards.
I know now.
I agree with Henry.
And then Henry and I must have come around the full cycle of the appeals.
It was good.
It did some good.
But Bill's fault.
Bill's fault.
He objected to the statement.
No.
He objected to the tactic of Henry.
Getting you to do that in order to run a bill, which is how he looks at it.
Oh, yeah.
And it's, you know, there's a fact to say that, you know, it's, it wasn't as noble as that.
It's a purely petty thing that you got the news instead of him.
And that you, see, he doesn't blame you for that.
He blames Henry for maneuvering.
Oh, my God.
Overlooking totally the fact that Henry didn't want you to do it.
It's not the object, because if he objected on the basis of a statement, that'd be fine.
You could make an argument.
We already hear it.
It might have been a bad thing to do.
Maybe it was.
And he could argue that it was bad strategy for you to make that statement and argue that very loudly.
But to argue that you shouldn't have done it because you overshadowed his deal is ridiculous.
It's just one more.
And the way he's approaching it, it's just too damn bad.
I don't know.
And that was pretty much what I spoke with him about.
You either, I don't know, you deal with him by giving him a lot of publicity in other ways, launching him off to Europe and Latin America, building up, getting ready for big meetings.
You know what that's about?
He's got a job.
I'm sure he's on the business.
You know, and also, this business, he did not do great all the time.
He just constantly, you know, and he shouldn't keep saying it.
You know, we know it's fine.
You know, he gets more of any patent than any of the rest.
Yeah, I know.
I think so.
Except not.
We do.
We work hard.
Well, we do.
But he doesn't ask for it.
Well, there's the difference.
Cunning never calls and says, did I do a good job?
Bill calls every time he issues one sentence in favor of the president to tell him what a great job we are.
None of the other cabinet officers do that.
Bill's the only one.
Bill does a better job than the other cabinet officers and Bill's the president.
He does say the right things in a better way.
But he, see, his whole world circles around him.
He said, he's up on the NLS.
That's the big thing today.
Let me say this.
I thought about it.
We had to do something.
And Connolly was particularly pleased.
That was the only thing we could do.
He wanted to go further.
He always does that.
But he says, I think, he says, I think that was exactly right.
He says, I put it right exactly with the posture.
He says, but you see, his point wasn't being as the U.N. right now.
We were just God damn sick of the U.N. And that basically...
He's right in his gut reaction judgments.
He's wrong in tactics, in his tactic on how to carry out because he goes too far.
He's too heavy handed.
He really is.
He was right on Callie that we needed to do something.
He was wrong on how far we should go.
He wanted an immediate partner.
Partner, right away.
Get him out.
And I mean, that was a very bad thing.
It is.
Oh, and a terrible reason.
He wanted to bring Bush back and replace you.
I love him.
That would be the wrong thing to do on the basis of that.
Sure.
Thought about it.
So she said, Dan, good asset.
He said, he's a stronger guy than I thought he was.
Or he should become stronger and get the job.
That's the other thing.
He's getting, yeah.
He's got his own work.
He's like a gun.
He's under pressure.
He can do the job.
That's the big thing.
Well, under a loss, he keeps his team up.
You know, he doesn't, you know, he's fighting it.
He sees what we need to do now.
He is a dog howling or dancing in front of his desk at night.
Jesus Christ, it's been a horrible sin.
It is the most disgusting thing he ever saw.
God damn it.
He is a real gentleman.
Well, I'm very surprised.
Bill, the thing, Henry, put him in the other thing.
I mean, Bill, the thing, twice he realized Henry never...
He doesn't have the sense of, he really doesn't have a very little sense of how to, the
He doesn't really, he doesn't like the big movie.
Because he, he's an analyst and he analyzes all the factors in a big movie and he's got all the reasons why you can't do this.
And I constantly try to, you know, be really secure with it.
That's why he's a very good staff man, but he would not be a good leader.
And so Henry would be a terrible leader guy.
As a leader, Henry would never step into the, he'd analyze it to death.
And Henry's in exactly the right spot, because the key to Henry is to have, is to serve somebody like you.
That's, that's what puts him in the, in all the arguments.
And then if you want to carry something out, so you have to do it.
But Henry would not sit, he would have let, he would have just let it lie.
And that's the right thing to do.
I love it.
You realize you would defuse a goddamn thing and break the brain to resolve a mistake.
And the argument that they're very de-conservatives and all that isn't true, I don't know, but they are very lying.
They're very lying and they can hurt you also.
And most of them are already on the path, you know, that's pretty, you know, they're a different person.
That's just, they've got to come.
Well, John Robbins was in yesterday.
He's just bubbling with glee.
He says,
Because he, you know, the Supreme Court, he just did the right thing there.
He was in with Mitchell, and he got on John Boleyn, and he said, you know, he didn't have very good suggestions on that list, but he said that the way you maneuvered it around, it just came out just right.
And, yeah.
Why is he very excited?
He's raising money on Reagan.
Yeah.
So the attitude is very good.
Very positive.
He's probably, he's kind of a guy who would like to do this.
They're not gonna do as well on the dinner as they had set their sights on, but that's all, we don't care about that, because it's, we don't get the money anyway, so they just said they did.
But he said that the attitude toward the president is just very positive.
We covered his business on the black thing, the veterans, and the black candidate.
When Rollins talked to you about a fourth party,
So we've got that going.
I think we may get something.
Rollins just loves that game.
He just got one of the matches.
I'm sure he chose it.
Well, that's the question.
I don't know whether she's saying, whether that's the problem.
If you go with the Democrat, is she just going to use it for her power in the party, or is she going to stay in?
And the argument is that if we can launch a Jesse Jackson or somebody outside the party, we're better off.
It would keep off.
And Rollins, boy, he is just as crass with commercials as you can get.
He said, well, I said, we take them.
They appreciate it.
He said,
He has this whole line of how you move the cash from one hand to the other.
It is a question of whether Chisholm is the clear-cut lead candidate.
We'd be better off with Julian Bond and who knows what else.
But they'll buy that Democratic Party person.
But that's wrong.
They'll buy him off and then he agrees.
And then we're better off with buying our own person who stays solid.
And when the Democrats buy him off Chisholm and Bond, a lot of black, non-black,
the Organizational Financial Center, which was run over by a candidate for senator.
But Robinson says, what we do, he said, we run into this great barrage for a committee to elect Jesse Jackson.
And he says, what we do is we get our people, we get these old dollar bills that you don't want to get the new chance, you want to get the old ones that looks like people have been saving them all their lives.
He said, we plug those in, you know, on a dollar a piece,
4,000 or 5,000 people scattered around.
And he said, you do that about three or four times.
He says, Jesse Jackson started getting people who really wanted to be president.
He says, that's the way.
You don't go to Jackson and find him first.
You go, get his ego going.
After his ego's going, then you can't turn him off.
Then you've got to block.
Then you go in with some money, big money.
See, we make the deal with it.
We keep it going.
The big money, the payoff is afterwards.
You give him about $10,000 per percentage point.
He gets 20% of the vote.
He gets $200,000.
That's the personal thing after the election.
You put the money in to go leave out the reform.
They do promise him he gets, say, a few percent.
An incentive bonus to work hard.
Do you really need to give money to buy an ad and all of a sudden the ad doesn't run and you find a thesis and pay the loan on the car?
Pay the loan on the car?
Well, of course.
You know, the deal with the U.S. didn't go pretty well.
It'll get revived in the magazines, the weekend analysis stuff, but that'll be a blip.
And I don't have anything going back.
I don't see anything now that's going to get it turned back up.
They're trying to build a thing now, but the big test will be whether Taiwan gets kicked off the committees.
Oh, that's just crude.
I don't see it.
They can't do much out of that.
The big thing was the thing that got kicked out of the UN.
That's not a big one, so I don't mess that up.
Three.
With the right wing, it completely diffused the idea that we were colluding by taking them out, by attacking the U.S. That's the whole point.
We had to do that.
And we're, you know, it's not quite incredible.
I didn't call her.
I didn't say it at all.
I had to go back out.
Riders is back in that day.
I was underhand.
So I...
I'm sorry.
By the right little things, I mean, we can keep the right judgment, isn't it?
Judgment with some substance and help, a court of substance and that, when the right, the rational right thinks about that.
Because the two, those two men, well, those four men that you put on the court override by a hundred times in importance the question whether Taiwan is a United Nations or not.
Other than symbolically, it doesn't make any difference whether Taiwan's in the U.N. or not.
It makes a hell of a lot of difference who's on that corner.
It's hard for a lot of those people in Islam.
It's hard to face the same kind of thoughts that I've had for all the years of very high-level symbolism and investment.
I mean, it's great.
It's always nice to get to know them, frankly.
Still, you know,
Anyway, that's my idea.
And to assure Rod and I last night, too, he is super enthusiastic about everything.
He's a fortune teller.
No, he's moved on.
He is editorial director of Time Incorporated now.
He's the head editorial guy for all their publications.
He's now out of the fortune thing.
Yeah, he's...
He is headed down under the two key guys.
The question is whether, whether Banks has enough, well, influence and enough speed to fight the Grunewald, fight the action in there.
Yeah.
On a personal basis, at least, we got a man that's a very enthusiastic, strong supporter of Banks.
Do you think so?
Yeah.
I do.
I think he's been all along.
I think he's become more and more strong this time through his honor.
Because I'm trying to, on a personal basis, partly trying to, partly the economic thing, partly just he wants to be and sees others as ways to be.
But he isn't.
He isn't as powerful a guy as Donald.
And Donald has no way of knowing.
But at the end of the year, I think, for instance, it's banks and township that make the decision, really.
So I think we've got a good... What was I going to mention?
Oh, we'll get it mentioned.
No, not from here.
We'll get it mentioned by... We don't want our powerful people in New York to take care of us.
The key there is for the candle and his clique to start working on it down at the club at lunchtime.
Can they do that?
Yeah.
And that's, we've got to keep it.
The main thing there is that this is much harder than it might have been.
Frankly, it must be a little bit easier.
It's like the weekly news magazine, you know, the court thing.
did more of his work, but he didn't get his background, or so-and-so.
And he just made me do this.
I said, and I can't pretend, I said, I talked to 47 of the people that read that thing on the court, and understood it, and they, about a million, huh?
About a million, they read that, and understood it, for the most part, as far as the court is concerned.
They read the parts about the men, which was complimentary.
That's right.
What the hell?
You know, we did that, and the man of the year thinks, well, what the hell, a plus, how much?
Good God.
We get, we get enormous publicity.
We don't need it.
It's, I, I can't get it.
We've got to keep it under control.
That's our household history.
But that's the biggest hurdle for Nixon being on it.
If I were to assign people, and I'm really worried about this, is the election year.
They have to follow election year.
Plus, they, that selection will be made before your China trip, before your Russia trip, and before the election, obviously.
Well before that.
That's right.
A year before.
And what their reasoning would be, my reasoning would be, is obviously has to be amended a year for 72.
Yeah.
Because of all those things.
And we don't want to put in one or two years in a row.
Why should we help them get reelected by putting in one night?
It won't help them get reelected.
And they can't.
By the same reason, they can't put any components on it.
What they'll end up with if they don't, if they don't use you, they'll have to either go to a foreigner or do something, you know.
Well, they have to rent a lecture, George Allen or something like that, and they go to a great lecture.
They don't have any borders or anything stupid.
That's the level where they rent it or something.
Oh, for us, nobody knows what to do with it.
I'd like you to work with the left wing border, the territory border, dining, the left wing parliament of Norway, and turn.
Well, getting back to your problem.
You can't believe that he's gone.
Even the part with the other thing with that testimony before the committee was going to be all that big.
And he thinks I can make that big.
Really.
And he gets a pretty good plan.
He turns it, you know, and makes some, he thinks about how he can make some iceberg for you.
He can't downgrade Hill and all that stuff.
He does work at trying to do it, but he wants, he decides he's going to ride this hill.
That's
Everybody has this.
And he got some good stuff, all that statement.
I'm sure it's a big statement.
A lot of back-up statements, by the way.
And he was good.
It was a good statement.
Yeah.
And he said, my God, he must have got his mind upstaged.
Yes, and you do seem to think something, oh well.
But that's a pretty deep-rooted thing to say, too, that I think you could be, well, I think that you could be confused about history.
I don't know why that's not.
But why does it say that you could be confused or is it something misjudged?
I think it's misjudged because you're a person, you're a person that's not just a person who's so kind and cautious and, you know, sort of internationalist and so forth.
He doesn't want the U.N. getting his ass, you know what I mean?
Take this because he's afraid of China, but the other unassailable point that Henry makes all the time in this, when we're discussing it, and he's right, is that there has not been, all of the three years, one word out of here derogatory of or downgrading the State Department of Rodgers.
Or even the easiest thing to try to do is try to cut them, and never write anything, and never write anything.
But there's been tons of them out of the State Department trying to undercut or screw in one way or the other.
And you haven't broken the policy.
The policy, that's correct.
You're right about that.
And that, there's no argument about it.
And Bill can't argue about it.
It's just that the record's clear.
That's that.
Justifiably, Monsanto and Henry started cheap shots.
This Henry does think, but not against Rodgers, he doesn't, building himself the movie star of business and being called to the phone at the embassy and saying the president was following me and his little clips and his social, he's not, he's not personal.
I don't know.
Well, he's really got a real problem.
He's trying to, he's still trying to just be able to
He feels that way that he just gets so certain to be able to tear up and hold on to that thing.
While unjustifying his own mind on the basis that it's a bad move that he shouldn't.
See, he's starting to build up his own mind.
He had it way back.
He was using it when he was trying to stop the first.
To try to figure out how to do it.
that the Pandora's box there, that these Chinese are so clever that if you open the lid, you're gonna laugh out on the world, and that five, 10, or 15 years from now, we may regret what we have to do to this world.
I believe 5.7 is the right answer, right?
Except they were coming from somewhere behind our lives.
But of this kind of world, you can't keep all the price to the nation, 5.7 is the question.
So if you take the inevitable and try to be directed to the right, you're trying to steal all that.
If anything, he has given me more credit on all things.
Much hurt just didn't...
Much more.
Much more.
Because even if they didn't show that he has yet, we don't have to cross the bridge line.
That's why we're concerned about it.
The state just got in line.
Well, that question is whether he can cross the bridge line with Rogers, which I have no problem with.
You couldn't rely on Bill on any of this.
Because he isn't going to be any better.
With Henry gone, Bill isn't going to be any different than he is now.
and he doesn't have the perception that Henry's got.
That's an awfully good name.
Henry's a good, almost ideal type, except for some of the ego problems for when they're going to be down.
He's got around almost full circle.
You know what?
I think what helps him, I guess, he always kind of has a lot of press things.
He didn't, he didn't mention it right away.
He came on so strong, but you, he was worried about it.
By the end, by the evening, he said, it says, the Linden home, he said, by the evening, he said, that was later in the afternoon, he said, it was a great struggle in statesmanship.
You know what I mean?
He said, his point is that Henry knows pretty clever.
He isn't one of the, he just wants to be sure to drive, and, but he will not tell.
I mean, listen, it's an interesting thing.
You love me, but he doesn't love you often.
Get on with it.
Fast.
Hard.
It's the political leader who's doing all this, aren't you?
You've got to get on.
Take a risk.
Take a long stop.
You're going to get your ass.
But it's better for you to have a sad man who doesn't like you.
That's true.
That's not an area that's only here able and willing to do because you need a guy to.
Well, it's a matter of time.
It's a matter of time.
All right.
Well, let me just talk about colleagues.
Very much so.
which was bad advice, but not bad in terms of its direction, but bad in terms of the tactics, right?
And it would have been bad if I could have just reacted and said, gee, that's a great idea, John.
It's why Cunningham would be his best staff man, because he's even more willing than you are, and doesn't have the restraint that you have, or the critical,
He's a rejection that you have to look at.
He'll get that being around here a while.
He, right now, would be a scary guy as president.
Yeah.
But after some time, and if he came in as president, I think he'd automatically go to Washington.
He could run into it.
No one said that he had any kind of staff.
One thing about Conway, that he certainly had any kind of staff.
I'm sure he has a non-chosen staff version of the lead part of it.
But you know, back on the U.N., Conway's advice was not good.
It was
Well, he needs a strong staff guy who would exercise restraint, who would swallow venom a little on some things, at least to look at him before he'd do it.
But, boy, you need a guy, as you will do and as he will do, who, at some point, will say, well, yes, there's some rest, but if we don't do anything, there's even more rest.
There is a problem.
That was it on Cali.
If you had done nothing on Cali, there is a problem.
It would have been better to follow Connie's advice.
That's right.
And part of it.
Which would have been a very bad thing to do, than to have followed some of the other advice you got, which would have to do nothing.
Well, a lot of our scientists have done nothing.
That one here.
Everybody over-dramatizes what might have happened after Cambodia and all that.
We were closer to an internal revolution.
That's right.
I think, on Cali, than we were at any time after Cambodia.
That would be a great one.
We were struck up.
Wrong.
We had 95% of the people.
People understand.
When people spontaneously moved into the streets the way they did, and when the Congress spontaneously moves with resolutions, with state legislations, with unanimous votes, we the Jews out of the public, we the Jews, there was a very huge shock to our minds.
We really didn't have a second one to tear down.
Hold a second one for us.
I had to review the case at the end of my assault.
Well, you couldn't be sure in that point.
I think, looking back, you could have gotten away with it.
You could have gotten away with it at first, but you didn't pay her a share of the price, no matter on the second one anymore.
No, no, I just refused her a body.
You had to do something.
Connell was right.
You had to do something.
Well, Bob, in a much, in a much lower level of magnitude, we had to do something.
You had to do something.
I just couldn't sit here and have Ziggler go out there.
And he was very good about it the first day.
I'll sit over there.
I said, don't.
He said, I said, no, that's what you want to say.
I said, yeah, the Rodgers.
I knew I didn't have anything to say.
I just don't know what to say.
But he couldn't go out there and say, well, the President said that.
That would look as if Rodgers took the line, but the President really didn't have his heart.
I couldn't do that.
You know what I mean?
and I couldn't say that I regret it if they're going to come out and have to curse on our Chinese mission.
Yeah.
So you see, we took a...
I took a line there, this very flubberous pattern, right, in which if everybody is looking through, they'll realize, well, I think they do really...
They think at all.
They're basically the whole thrust of everything I'm trying to do with that.
I'm trying to get them off the city of the U.N. and not do a little bit of conflict.
Let her go there.
Let the Godhead human beings go.
They did.
They screwed us.
They missed on the United States.
All right, fine.
I appreciate it a lot.
Again, the problem was right there.
You had to do something there.
And then you, which you felt that you couldn't just, had to say something.
So what did you say?
And that's the whole point.
And it was very good having Ron say it, rather than you anywhere saying it, because then they would have turned it down as personal, and they would have, and I would have tried to drive it.
The president was mad, you know, and charging him and all of a sudden.
Oh, I know that it was done.
It was frankly cold blooded.
Yeah.
I think Rob did it.
Rob did it well.
I'm happy he did it well.
Because they didn't want to take it.
They didn't.
And he said it was perfect.
And so he just did it over and over.
So he sent those words and just gave no way to, not to use specific words, you know, that undisguised glee, that kind of personal animosity.
I don't think he did anything about it.
I don't think he promised, frankly.
I think he finds it much better than he does.
Because he gets a part of our work.
He gets what we want.
Henry does a much better job of educating them.
That is very responsive.
But on the other hand, Henry sometimes does not know what his work is going to be in the headline.
He just doesn't know.
Most people don't.
Ron does.
Ron does.
They're very deep.
Ron's judgment on that is extremely good.
Ron's is just right.
He said, well, now this is the lead, and this is the next question.
I mean, you know, that's why his... Ron's better than anybody I've seen and heard.
I reject Bassett.
Never quite a solid lead guy.
Remember, he would always try to figure out what the lead was going to be, and he wasn't.
Raskin's always right.
He never quite did.
He always stayed the intellectual.
That's right.
He never saw the lead.
The hot news.
Herb was better than Bassett.
Herb was fair.
Herb was fair.
Rahm was almost 100% accurate.
I mean, never.
Well, it's an advantage.
Herb had to be looked at as an editor.
and a, before that, a long time before a reporter, but a low-level reporter, where Ron is a creature bred to the job he's in.
The fact of not having any background is an asset because he doesn't look at it colored by anything else.
Yeah.
He bored that door open.
I think he enjoyed it too, don't you?
He lost it in that.
He was sick of it.
He just said, well, I'm sorry, he knew it was risky, but he poured it right for him.
He wonders, you know, what he's doing before and then he'll come in afterwards and say, well, it's really in the soup.
I hope we did the right thing.
I mean, he can't, you know, he knows the significance of what he does and rockets are running the world.
And, uh, well, we've been very happy with the situation.
What I mean is, sir, but incidentally, you've got to make some moves sometimes.
There's another thing which we have to do.
We've got to make some moves sometimes.
It shows the man in this office is human.
He just can't be a cool machine, not reacting, you know, sending his press secretary off to say the non-entity stuff, you know, got everything over.
It's got to be a move.
There's got to be some things for you to do to supply impact on them.
You see what I'm saying?
The president is known to be upset about it.
You're right.
Absolutely.
And it's better for you to ask the kind of thing you should be upset about instead of the president's mad because he got a bad story on television last night, which is what Kennedy and Johnson both got.
Kennedy and Johnson got it all the time.
And nobody can ever come back to you being mad about a story because they never reacted to one.
God, benefit me.
Well, I don't think there's nothing more to do, as you see it.
Not right now.
Right, true.
I don't know what the cars are going to do with him.
You might get to have a little more talk with him.
I think we should.
Yeah.
Hey, that's right.
Why didn't I hear you come last night?
I thought he was coming.
I don't know.
He was arriving, wasn't he?
I assume so.
He wouldn't show up.
He was, he's doing something.
I'm not sure.
We did a show about that last year in Spain.
Yeah, but he got burned.
I'm not sure that was a good move, but it's not.
We started it.
Yeah, we got him burned.
His wife is great.
His wife, she's got a lot on the ball, but he's just a Jesus Christ.
I swear to you.
Yeah.
Tall.
Young.
Coors were a fine one.
They are.
I've talked with them a lot.
They are awfully nice people, too.
God, I think, Jesus, I don't know.
They actually, I've quite heard the vocational guidance.
I think she loves them.
She just thinks it's wonderful.
They're, they are just, well, it's typical, you know.
Come out of a little town in Colorado or something.
That's where they're from.
But they're really involved about it, I see.
But, uh, I figured it out.
I don't want, I don't want, I don't want
I just feel strongly that Don is the best public man.
It was exactly what he said.
I just feel we need a public man in that church.
I just really feel that.
Now, as a successor to Dodd, it occurs to me that if we all get addicted, and it is, I've never had this before, you know, there's a tremendous well of good people in the retired military, you know what I mean, a guy who retires at 60 years of age.
I'm trying to see if we can find a fine Marine or Navy or Army, you know what I mean, who's really, you know, got personality and all that, sort of a symbol type.
Yeah, yeah, you'll get a bureaucrat.
They'd rather be a retired general, be high-ranking, high-ranking guy.
We have some who have just retired and who have, they might get sort of a double ice job.
And don't just say that, Robbie, that they've never had it before.
I got a ton of day to go off of making this foundation speech right now.
I think we're going to have cold water.
We really want to know if we want to have it.
I think probably so.
I think we've got so much positive going that he'd make more headlines than cold water.
Let cold water fill it, and if it grabs, he can pick it up any time he wants.
Okay.
Well, I guess that the thing right now, we ought to have a hold up on it all together.
I'm not sure which means the same.
I'm not sure that what I've managed, I'm not sure that our getting into, I don't know, a controversy about Anglin right now is a good idea.
You know what I mean?
Well, the other thing is, if we're going to get him into a controversy, my view would be that
We ought to hold him for loosing up the effort about getting what he needs.
Which he really has his heart in.
He can go all out on.
And he's already singing with that guitar anyhow.
I was going to say at least one response when Colin stole it from Dijon Ross with Drummond.
It's a big, big sample.
And Drummond just picked it up again, you know.
I heard that for the second chance it would help some key kids be close there.
I'm not sure he does, because he does work on that.
It's, that's, you know, it resonates on the, and their sales, you know, are going pretty well.
It's the Coastal Insurers.
They're selling out at bookstores.
So we're keeping the sales pressure on them, which is good.
Yeah.
Drummond is on the right tick, which is demanding that both the FCC and the Congress have a responsibility to react.
Now, there's a controversy here.
Either everyone's right or the networks are right, and this must be determined.
I've already told Robinson that I was picking the people in Presbyterian on this.
I do not want to have to get out of the church, but I will pick, personally, everyone.
Everyone who lives and souls.
I want to accommodate their foundations.
Because of this terrible need for publicity, what the hell is he going to do?
In other words, when I meet him, he's going to be up there.
That may be all right, because at least he's in China.
There are only three of you there.
And if it's the problem, it's going to be very well.
Because on the other trips, Henry has always been perfectly happy to stay in the background and let you and Rogers take the front, which is the way it should be.
You and Rogers are...
I'm not so sure he's going to take the vaccine in the public stuff in China.
Well, they won't ask you to.
They'll have the dinners all over.
You get them all that.
But I find it weird when everybody's there.
The airplane crews all come to all the reception when they have a meeting.
I'm not going to have a rock and jam.
I'm not going to have him do it.
Because basically, Bob, he doesn't.
He really doesn't understand anything.
I don't say it with criticism.
I mean, he does not.
He's basically a tactician in the midfair.
But that, I mean, that, and I can't have him sitting there when I'm trying to make a point.
That's what I'm saying.
He's just completely late on that.
He hasn't been in it.
He's not.
I mean, he's here.
And you're, you have never had the secretary of state in the meeting.
But Henry, Henry has got the ring and he's not in all the meetings himself.
That's his, uh, there is ableism over the ring and he doesn't need to be in all the meetings.
I can handle it.
You know, he, he, he steals what he's going to get.
What the hell does he have to do?
I'll, I'll, uh, I'll, I'll fend off anything.
You know, I agree with you.
I think he's probably right.
He didn't feel he could keep on putting it off.
I think it would have escalated more.
Roger's
It's better to get him some stuff on him.
In his book, come on in.
If Roger raises a rival that may be directed at Russians again, how many of you can't sort of start a collusion by saying, it's not a good thing.
You just can't fight it off.
It means that your state can't go to advanced training.
That's the one thing.
And we have a totally different situation here.
We've got staff meetings.
All of us in the room, we're not in the room, we're not in the room, and the Secretary would not agree, but we just want to send over a technical group, treat this like we're people, and it's not Bill Rogers.
If he loses, it's not Bill Rogers.
It's not hitting.
It would be ludicrous to have the Secretary of State hitting him.
That's his whole point.
He must get everything all prepared.
Then he's arguing against his own proposition in China.
He said that we should go in and work all these things out.
In Russia, he must go prepared on it.
He wants European security across Hong Kong, and he doesn't know that we do all that here.
Well, anyway, I guess he's not going to go.
You don't need that kind of mission also because you have diplomatic relations.
You work that out, as we have on all the other trips.
We haven't set a substantive advance team on any trip except China, and the only reason there is because there's no channels.
I watched that, and it works just fine.
There is no need to do it.
And then they, there are other people, and some of them say they dance.
They say it for over an hour.
That's great.
The dancing went on, and everybody, you know, that's, you know, that's fine.
But I have an idea of how you can do it.
Why should we stand there and shake hands?
We should.
Henry's third sister.
Now, one thing I had to knock on off, though, I told Rose, and I'm getting her story.
We had too many of these fat people.
And I had Sonico out there for 20 minutes.
I told him to take Sonico along and listen to me.
He just cannot.
But why the hell is he not?
I don't know.
Because he's Henry's assistant.
Henry's assistant.
But now Henry's getting out of his staff.
Henry should always be there.
If he's not there, he should be there.
But why did Christ's son go?
Why did he go to the assistant secretary for their son?
No, it's not going to be him.
The way you can do that is to say we're not going to have staff people.
You know, I had a feeling that Mrs. Peterson was a little bit screwed, and she is.
Yeah.
Isn't she a little on her nut?
I got that, but I just didn't know what I was going to say.
But something about that strange eye, I did think that was a problem.
And you're absolutely right.
What is it that she's having done?
I'm not sure what it is, but she is a little kooky.
Well, she is.
It's fine if she's scared as well.
She is, too.
Yeah, I know she is.
But she's got it all involved.
She's got a reason to be unbalanced too, I guess.
Well, you know, there's a very strong suspicion that she was involved in this, huh?
Yeah.
In fact, I think there's got to be a convention that she was in there.
Sure.
That's not a problem.
Oh, I had that in court with Mrs. Peterson.
If she is the O.P., I wonder whether those circumstances would be better considered for that job.
I just don't know.
I wonder if she can.
That would be something of a problem.
I hadn't thought about that.
Well, the market's not nuts.
The market knows exactly what she's doing.
Well, she's not a concern.
But she... Well, I don't know.
I'm not sure.
She's looking on the market then.
She is a hell of a menace.
She's got a beard on.
Yeah, I'm always looking
18-year-old sexist.
Oh, it's great.
She looks from here.
It's kind of sad because she's, you know, she wears those corsets, and then she bulges out of the top of them, and all of them wear the tight dress that it shows.
It's sort of a faded veil.
Yeah, that's the type of sex.
So, oh, God, this is so amazing, man.
This is Johnson's office.
Check her on us.
She's not very bright, but she's just a big gunfire girl.
That's all right.
Maybe just try it.
There's a lot more big gunfire women around this country than there are bright, simulating Washington, D.C.
P.H.D.
's.
Actually, we're very fortunate with the wives we have around here.
We have wives that are very good, not so hot, but the wife is cookie too, but she's cookie in a very positive way.
She's a real asset.
I heard her talk to her.
She just said she's a little bit flirty.
Yeah, but she's awfully nice.
Yeah.
And she's nice and, you know, good-looking.
And Carol Bench is sensational.
She's good-looking.
Blonde.
And she's so natural.
And she's unsophisticated.
That's right.
And just the opposite.
She's brutal and sophisticated.
But she's all right, too.
Loyal.
That's what I think.
But anyway, think about it.
Here's just a little white thing.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't think that's a block.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't think it is.
You've got it.
Don't do that much of it, Kevin.
Wipe that little thing off.
You guys are silly.
You're smart.
I don't know.
I'm confused.
I don't know.
Well, there's a problem.
There's a terrible problem for a wife of any man who's moving past and far.
Any wife who says it's in government, I don't know.
Any public man, I don't know.
We're going to have a problem.
That problem, don't worry about it.
I think we're going to have a problem so that we don't have to piss on young men.
Well, all you have to do is postpone it to the end of the day.
So we've got to get it done today because we've got to get it cleared.
The Air Force will confirm that.
Yeah, he's going to be very good as an inside man.
Don't look at him as a front man.
Because he is impressive physically.
But he's very impressive administratively a lot.
He's going to be very good.
Better than Don.
Much better than Don.
in terms of just quietly running things.
Don is just over concerned with perfection and keeps himself so uptight that he kind of becomes self-defeating.
I was watching him last night.
He does work effectively.
It's one of those guys that he also makes others feel a little nervous.
You wonder what in Christ he's worried about.
You know, here's what he's worried about.
That's what I try to tell him.
He's not at all.
He's all kind of afraid for fear that, you know, the person, the person, it's going to take five seconds to get the person to surround the man.
And, oh, he's got to be as unfathomable as hell.
I mean, he's got to be that brilliant.
Whatever is happening is happening.
That's it.
That's right.
So, I thought we just got the silver buckle.
Every year.
Every year.
I got it last year.
It was John's.
Goddamn, John's in here all over the place in this room.
That was their report.
Okay.
This is your first silver buckle up.
We don't have a .
We're gonna have the honor guard .
Well, I don't know.
All right.
You know, I'm so incompetent as I am on the congressional, so they ask me to move the pressures and so forth and so on and so forth.
Finally.
Deep.
Get out of the head once more.
Also, feel your right wrist.
Also, hands up.
I mean, we fought this thing through in press conferences.
Well, that's a pretty sophisticated thing to do.
That was an agreement to reach an agreement.
Nobody quite understands what it's about.
Which is interesting.
It has a strong personal feeling on the conservatives, which can be helpful, which is
the same thing that you've expressed, and he feels it very strongly, that the bastards never help us on the things we're doing that they want us to do, and maybe never, so, I don't know, but that's true, and that's something that, you know, it's just unforgivable, that we've got all these things that we're doing that they think are right, and they never do us any, help us with those, all they do is eliminate those, and then look at what they think we're doing wrong, and hit us.
I think could be somewhat helpful in trying to get that point across to some of them.
It'd be a little more useful to their own cause.
Well, by giving us some positive backing instead of just negative guidance all the time.
Yeah, after you take some of that heat, it becomes terribly upset about it.
But you better consider telling him, he's got good work.
We don't react the other way.
We don't hurt people.
We're going to fight back.
Damn.
Oh, right.
Grab them, Michael, and the sound.
Screw them.
I mean, they're doing a lot of things for them.
They're going through that court game.
It's not easy.
Well, don't screw them up.
Let the sound down.
With the textiles and the court.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I've been a dance man.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yeah, I need to get my little money.
The way he parked here on the right, he said he walked in and he goes out and does it.
Did you get that before?
No.
No, that's what he wants to do.
He's like, I'm not going to finish it.
I'm going to finish the car.
He does it.
Maybe he saw it.
He could have been slow about it.
I had to spend a half hour warning him.
pretty much that he has
I think it's an honest mistake.
I think the honest people aren't as bad as we think.
Also, like the guy on Sullivan, see the only excuse that Chris Sullivan does do, he'll go out publicly and do one hell of a job.
All the State Department guys, they have the issue.
I was just talking to Jerry.
Oh, they give you that.
So do they.
They're not.
I mean, it's true or they're not.
It's wrong.
They want to stay with you.
They're very new.
Well, you can see the difference.
That's what I mean.
People when I was out of office, I was trying to communicate.
So they're all that diplomacy business.
Yeah.
Ah, they get behind you.
Mr. McDavid came back.
Tell us the right name of Mr.
Page and what he wants to do.
I don't worry about the members of the Fed.
I'm prepared to talk to Arthur.
I've got to think about that.
But if it's for anything, he wants to be a kid with Arthur.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't know if this is funny.
Well, this could be a little bit of a rant.
Yeah, I'm trying to get it back on there.
He chooses to tell me that he's very wrong, all that way.
We don't take that.
Actually, it was after about a day until you could get rid of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's why I'm watching you.
No, I'm just trying to get him to listen.
You got any orders?
Well, we have done two of them, Brown.
We certainly have.
Little guy deserves it in a way.
Yeah, he's a strong guy.
Strong, tall.
And, uh...
He's very clean.
He's very clean.
He has been honest enough to be decent for us.
That's what he said.
Of course, you know, I hadn't realized.
I knew that he'd been here since Kennedy, but he didn't talk about it as a state visit.
It's Kennedy that turned me into one of my pictures today.
That's right.
No, Kennedy had it so set up that when he moved into the White House, a lot of White House aides surrounded him, screening him from photographers.
So there was no picture taking of Kennedy.
He was passionate about all the pictures.
Yeah.
Oh, he was great.
Yeah.
And he got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
He got it.
The Chinese have asked to see Walters tomorrow.
They probably tell us what they're going to do with the U.N.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I think they may not.
I think they may take the position that until Taiwan is kicked out of all the specialized agencies, they won't participate.
Of course, given the present mood of the U.N., that will be done quickly.
I'm not sure.
I don't know.
We've got to worry about the Senate.
We've got to... We've got to handle Syria or something.
We've got to...
Oh, that's gonna be the next move.
That's right.
Absolutely.
You know, Bush has been good.
He's a decent guy.
Bush has been good.
He's a decent guy.
You know, Bush has been good.
He's a decent guy.
somebody mentioned to me and i hadn't thought of that that we shouldn't have permitted the vote that night because they all get drunk at night
They don't eat in a minute.
Shirley Plath told me that.
Oh, did she?
Yes, they said they all get flicked up at the U.N. bar.
Yeah.
And then when there's a night session, particularly when there wasn't an emergency, or something that could have happened just at the end of the night.
I can't hear you.
Duh.
Although it's just as well that they'd be at miss as long as we were going to lose.
Oh, yeah.
The New York Times today has a pleading editorial, smashing defeat for the United States, the hypocrisy.
That's what they wanted.
So now, smashing defeat is the result of our proceeding unilaterally and not cultivating our allies.
Because, well, on China and the Soviet Union, instead of concentrating on our allies, suddenly they discover our allies.
For three years, they attack us a big through loyalty to you.
Oh, I see.
So this is all our decision.
I don't want to change.
There isn't one European vote, with the possible exception of the Netherlands, that could have gone any other way.
Given their domestic situation, given their foreign policy.
And what they had already done on China.
And what they had done on China.
That's what I mean, their foreign policy, of course.
Oh, I have no idea.
There was no way we could get that.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Well, I imagine, too, that's
That may be true.
The British certainly helped.
Well, the New York Times, they see time that they haven't had anything on foreign policy to attack us.
I saw Harriman on television this morning on the Today Show.
What's he doing?
Oh, terrible defeat, but we now must pull in our belts and recover from this stunning blow.
You know, it made it sound as if it had been done good.
Let me tell you this, you know, we, I think it was a little risky, but as Connolly was saying yesterday, you know, she wanted to go further.
She would have been wrong to call the pushback.
Yes, I did, but sometimes, you know, and getting out of the job.
We have the church on this part of the U.N. Oh, yes, absolutely.
We would have been in a position to get in there and be shot at.
Oh, I know that.
See what I'm saying?
Oh, I know that.
There's a leftist in that, for Christ's sake.
Absolutely.
But here... Oh, she's again in the news.
What is that?
No, no.
What do you mean?
It's not in the news.
I don't think so.
And the editorial page of the New York Times, if we found a favorable editorial, it'd be astonishing.
I find anything, so it doesn't make any difference what they say.
Just wait a minute.
I'll check.
They are going to be killed better in the process.
Somebody has to be left off.
I'm sorry.
By the time I get to take the wire services and the television people and...
Just don't put the New York Times in the pool.
No, I have a call in to him.
He wasn't in when I called him earlier.
I'll see it today.
Nothing to be gained by delay.
I'm just young.
I'm going to say I submitted our communique, which he knows that most people don't have much of it.
They turned it down.
So then all we could do was to settle on subjects, and why don't they draft what they would like to be the statement of the U.S. position in two paragraphs?
We can't tell the Chinese what they can say.
The Chinese will put theirs in two paragraphs.
We'll put ours in two paragraphs.
And then we'll have a grievance.
If they can find some way to write that down.
Got that memorandum card, that's what it is.
No, son, I bet you I had the one in your car.
Oh, I don't think that's it.
The main thing in your car.
And
And we mustn't let them, exactly, we mustn't let them freeze us into the old position.
I mean, what did our allies ever do for us?
And now that the New York Times is pleading about our allies, hey, what have we done to our European allies?
Nothing.
You mean our European allies?
Yeah, that's what they're complaining about.
That's what they're complaining about.
Oh, sure.
Sure, they say 10 out of 13 NATO countries voted against us.
Oh, sure.
But not because of it.
That's right.
That's complete nonsense.
Norway, Denmark, Iceland, the Scandinavian for their own domestic.
Left-wing Greece, the British and French do it because they are.
And Belgians, because they have their diplomatic relations.
Italy did it because domestic situation.
Austria did it because of it, sir.
My sister did it.
Well, that's what the bastards now don't say.
Exactly.
Oh, no.
Of course.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No, and that's where you are in a strong position.
I have been classed with them recently.
I thought a lot of people would hit back, but it's interesting to me... Well, I'm sorry.
Yeah, but nobody... No, that man's equal to the star.
He's not.
That's the imagination.
Yeah, yeah.
And we didn't see it, but... No, that's the general reason.
No, I'm not going to get into that.
Yes, you know, Colson... You know, Colson can run for you when she sees you.
Yes, they had it on the tape, I'm sure of it.
It's the goddamn second account game I've ever seen.
Really?
Horrible thing.
That's what it is.
And then you're gonna say that, uh, oh, why don't you say that the president frankly has reserved an insult.
And when he went there, he said, I don't want an angry fan.
Oh, let it out, please.
or the rest that I reserve to myself.
This is true.
Maybe that I'm going to have to decide this.
So what can be sold here?
And particularly the Taiwan thing, that I know is top of sale.
And it's he got any ideas.
Whatever it is, he's got years of ideas.
But I've got to make the decision.
And that's what's going to be how it's going to be.
I'm not even thinking, but I know what I'm going to do.
Thank you for working with me.
where it goes further
I mean, it's worse than evil might come up with.
You know what I mean?
Like the Chinese.
You have the extreme Chinese position.
And they let him take it.
You see what I mean?
some other target to shoot at, and then tear that to pieces and think that's it.
And then we come to this.
That's the way to get at it.
If you've got some of you that say, look, here's one way, here's one suggestion, don't press me, satisfy me, but what do you think?
And he'll piss on it.
He'll piss on anything if he thinks it's your suggestion, see?
Well, I can get, I can show him the first Chinese draft, which is so tough.
I mean, let's see.
Here's what they want to do.
Turn it down.
Put him in charge.
Say, now, here we are.
Now, what have we got in between?
And I've got to make the decision.
The thing that Bill wanted was the idea that he could participate in the draft.
He could communicate.
He can draft.
He can communicate.
Well, it's basically he wants to get the credit.
What he would most like is to have the Peking trip fail and have the Moscow trip get some successes and to claim the credit for Moscow.
That's what he would like, in my judgment.
Well, to have it sort of, he would like to get the impression that because the state wasn't fully involved, I mean, there are a lot of little stories like that that keep seeping out every once in a while.
Yes.
That it wasn't professional and all of that sort of stuff.
Shit.
Jesus Christ.
I think that... Jesus Christ.
Because I have to admire him for one thing.
He certainly screwed that second trip to Peking.
That he did beautifully.
He didn't screw me.
It's, you know, it's just...
It's not...
That's what he needed, but I'll... Keep him busy.
I'll keep him busy, and I'll see him, and I'll work out some co-existence on it.
No, it's the whole thing, obviously.
We're going to fix it and keep him busy.
And keep him on the blind trails.
Let me point out, how this is going to come.
I don't need to control it.
I know it's going to come.
We're coming.
It's difficult to even go there in the first place.
I know there's a couple who are going to communicate with me for the worst of three years.
Their position is different from ours.
I know that.
Let's start with that proposition.
Let's not have all that yacking.
This is terribly difficult.
This is very risky.
When people come in and tell me the obvious, it's the worst hell on me.
I know better than they are how risky it is.
And I still believe that it's the trip to China that is exciting people.
That's at least...
The trip to China is exciting people.
The trip to China is changing the Russians.
It's scaring the Indians.
It's making the Japanese more...
That is what it is.
And it doesn't make any difference, basically, what isn't the communique.
The communique is up to that.
Provided we've got to keep up, we've got to find a way to hedge our title.
So we can't get an open target there.
And if we have to just split up the top one,
and say that we're not going to discuss it, then we're just going to have to sit there.
Yes.
That's much better than trying to pat me.
Well, I think Haig should go over with an ex-advance group anyway.
They want a political person along to keep an eye on the technical ones, and we can give them another formulation.
On Taiwan, I've already told them we'd probably send Haig along with an ex-advance.
For a major reason, for a few, I mean, the...
the U.N. and the, I mean, public, you know, I say exactly the same thing to you and to a bunch of other people, but I mean, there are a few ways we could go.
Like, you know, like all of a sudden they want me to sign a UNESCO project.
I've got nothing.
I told you, he told me that you had.
Yeah.
When I say they, the U.N., I said, no, I'm doing it.
And I'm never going to sign it anymore.
Yes, I'm just, I wouldn't do it.
And on all the national things, we're going to take that, that Hoffman committee.
I agree.
I agree.
And I think we should reconsider the whole multilateral approach to aid.
Yeah.
My team is on the multilateral approach to aid, and I want you to re-examine the examiner and the security officer to see how we can cut it up.
But find a way to get the bilateral up.
That's the hard thing.
But I think Congress is more likely to vote money for bilateral than for multilateral.
Multilateral, yeah.
It's a clear-cut vote if you think the bilateral is the only one that's true.
The multilateral is a certain kind of thing to vote for.
Let's cut that out.
You know, we went to Cooper Church yesterday.
I think that's that one in the morning.
Well, Scott, you know, he always said the right thing to me.
He did a marvelous phrase of his.
He called him the hot pants, uh,
He said, they're only trying to take credit for what they know you're doing.
You can see, though, I want to get a little ahead of him.
I don't mind.
We'll talk.
We'll talk.
I know, but I'm just trying to think of trying to hold for two weeks before he shows up here.
What I'm getting at is... We'll get an analysis of what the hell other roles could come up between now and then.
I don't mind their words.
I don't want them to have a foe before you see them.
A foe.
Yes, that differs.
Yes, that's true.
Yes, it differs.
Oh, yes, but they're sweating.
The North Vietnamese, that article of their foreign minister.
I saw it.
Yes, they're really sweating now.
I mean, asking for new diplomatic initiatives for themselves, saying the United States is splitting them off from the socialist countries, and if we had another year, we'd finish them.
Finish them.
But they're not interested.
It's one of them.
Oh, the war is won.
And it's like the Jews want to survive.
I think he's got it.
I think he's got to survive over there.
I think that tricky son of a bitch, when he offered to resign, I think he hasn't disclosed his intention of doing it.
But that could be him and... No, we can get our deal.
They got an army, a navy, an air force, and an R-80 for a while, and they've been handling the North for a while.
The North has had a storm.
The North has had hundreds of thousands of casualties.
So I think it's, I think it's good to use one of the goddamn prisoners you once had.
And once it got some publicity.
And the infiltration isn't picking up yet because of the flood.
Now they were hit again by the typhoon.
That again delayed it.
Here we are near November.
And as long as they haven't picked it up, picked up yet, it may not take even the time.
So it's, until Saturday we haven't had time to disturb our allies.
Let me tie this into a news magazine.
Instead, these sons of bitches are just, they're really not, they can't stand the idea that we are succeeding.
That's all.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The way those animals, they have not given the Russians something to fight.
That's quite the thing.
Well, Mr. President, there's nothing you can do except fix and get tremendous public acclaim that they'll cover.
We talked about this before.
They can't avoid running it for a day or two.
But if you think of Kennedy with his lousy test banner...
Cesar had four weeks.
When he took his public relations stunt trip through Europe, you might have thought he was the greatest leader in the history of mankind.
But none of they are determined to...
It's interesting that the public opinion poll is now up again.
At 54, well...
But I think once they see your opponent, it will go up even more.
I mean, every time I see Humphrey or Muskie or Teddy on television, exposure is our best aid.
They haven't got anything.
They are outdated.
Really?
I think so.
But Humphrey, I don't see how he can get the nomination.
He might.
I don't think he can either.
I see.
I think Teddy, although he made a point with his Irishman, I think he studied an Irishman.
Teddy has not failed to do a cheap thing.
He's done every cheap thing there is.
Every cheap thing one can imagine he's done.
Must be in there.
He used to go around saying our policy was being made by Chiang Kai-shek.
Now our policy is not being made by Chiang Kai-shek.
He's still screaming.
I think the line will be either to get me involved in that European summit, which I don't think is a good idea with all the European countries there.
I just don't feel that's a good idea.
Maybe, or at the other end of the scale, see Pompidou, or see all of them, see four.
I just don't know.
But I do know that there ought to be some consultation at some time with their oppositions.
We can do one of two things.
We can either... We know Pompidou wants to see you.
That's already arranged now.
We can get a bilateral meeting with him any time.
Another thing we can do is to line up Brandt, since we've already lined up Pompidou, and then go back to him.
That's right.
I may have a frank talk with Cromer.
And now that he, that we are really disturbed by our relations with him.
What did he want us to do?
Consult him about China?
He's now, they were negotiating upgrading their embassy from charge to impasse.
uh apparently stayed for tactical reasons i frankly didn't even know that had asked them to hold that up pending our formulating a position on the u.n so they held it up and in the meantime i went to china
Why don't you get Grover in that direction?
He said, I think they ought to know, because a lot of times you tell them, and say, no, we should know about it.
Let's begin getting that across.
If there's a different state, we should know about it.
We didn't know in Woodward that, frankly, I was in the whole time.
They've got to look at their industry.
We've got to look at ours.
But now at this point, do they or do they not want to have some conservation before the sun?
That's the whole question.
If they do, they don't know.
Got it.
Right.
That's what I mean.
Of course, what we hear is down deep, too, is the fact that they know that they are on the main of the world stage.
So here they are with diplomatic relations with China for years.
They're not going there.
The state is everywhere going.
Exactly.
And one other thing, Mr. President.
If they want to take the leadership in Europe, I've always said that.
I wrote it in 1964 that we were nuts to force Britain into Europe.
Because once Europe was... Because I figured that once Europe was in Britain... Once Britain was in Europe, they had to pursue called-in policy.
That's the only way.
Thank you very much.
He is a member of the National Security Council.
I'd like you to talk to him about problems just as you would talk to me, because he will report correctly to me.
Outside the usual diplomatic channels, for that sense.
I'm going to screw those people with a goddamn pen.
Yes, sir.
Today we have to keep the ambassadors on all hands.
I think so, too.
Well, I mean, if you live in a country, then they're going to say, well, you have to be exempted from the book.
That's an exception.
But you've got to have means.
You need to know all the means.
I've already arranged it in Japan.
I called Sato's contact plan in Japan.
Yeah, in Japan.
But would you do it in Sahara?
In Indonesia.
Yes.
That's pretty tough.
He just won't take him along.
I think we made it very clear to him.
Oh, yeah.
Give him a nice talking paper and also a little, a little fuzz.
Just summarize what you told the press on Chuck's.
All of it is going to be, uh, going to be on a plane this evening.
It's like the kind of thing that you need.
Bullshit.
These people, they love you.
No, no.
He'll have his first thing Sunday morning.
You'll be a good man on this trip.
Oh, yes.
And it's good for everything.
Oh, yes.
He's much subtler.
I saw him on television this morning going off.
Oh, yes.
Well, very good, he said.
I'm not going to make a lot of news.
I'll just tell people what the president has asked me to say.
And I will report to the president.
But he
His great ability is that he always features you.
He never...
He doesn't say hi.
He doesn't say hi.
He doesn't sort of preen himself.
And it isn't geared to him.
Well, you know, didn't you have to remember?
They were sitting here sunning me.
We've got to make good use of the time.
We have made good use of it.
This next year, November the 5th, 1972, and then God knows what will happen.
We lose the election.
Your power is gone.
From that time on, but that isn't it.
But from this time, we've got to use it right up to the hill, every bit of it, and nothing must stand in the way.
I completely agree with you.
I couldn't agree more.
We're going to handle the Chinese.
We're going to handle Vietnam.
We're going to handle the Middle East.
We're going to handle, frankly, the Russians.
Well, the Middle East, I'm no longer so sure we can handle, because I think we've now threatened the Israelis to a point where they won't even listen to you anymore.
And that one may be, we have to make a decision.
I promised the Russians an answer before November 22nd.
So we have three weeks.
As to whether we're dealing with that?
Yeah.
And that's going to be a big decision because it was a direct approach to you.
And... We have to go that way and we have to go other ways.
It's a very dangerous game for us to play.
Dangerous game.
Yes, well...
I don't know what day.
I haven't talked to her, I've been in three weeks.
Right now it's totally stalemated and...
But it isn't bad if we want to move it into here.
What you can do is, as I told you, to immerse yourself, start immersing yourself next week on all of that national organizations and on you and your shots.
I mean, really pierce them around, but don't get pierced.
It's...
Well, let him babble around to you, son, because he's useful and he picks up a lot of information.
But you and Schultz should sit down and decide and try to give me some feeling of how we can play the political and the monetary game together.
The artists we're talking to here, too, are those kind of a lot.
But remember, he is obsessively going back to the old system.
He doesn't really say it, but that's really what I don't know.
But that's how he is insisting that we can't do anything.
He says it isn't important to change the international language.
The American people, we want you to do that.
They want someone on training.
He's absolutely right.
So, uh, so we, from a political standpoint, we mislead, let the monetary thing lag along, let the Europeans... Well, the danger...
The danger of the monetary thing lag, the thing lagging along is, uh, not that the Americans give a damn about the monetary thing, but they would give us a damn if all the Europeans started screaming or if our opponents started screaming that, that we've thrown away all our friends.
I think what we ought to do is to formulate, at least for ourselves, what outcome we want.
I don't think it's a good idea to say, let the Europeans make a proposition, because I don't know whether they would make a better proposition than we can formulate.
At least we ought to get it down on paper.
We may not propose it.
But I'll talk to Schultz about that.
And I have never found any trouble dealing with Connolly.
How's he doing?
He's a great fellow.
Why, I guess he's leaving to run from the sand gym.