Conversation 607-018

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No, no, no, no, no.

It's very interesting.

You know, the artwork in Park City, it's always just beautiful.

The churches have this.

It's like everything.

Oh, right.

Yes, sir.

All right.

We'll get it open.

Come on over and take a picture of your shot.

So you can have it over here.

Now, like this.

Good.

That's good.

Tremendously great.

and true and so forth.

She's going to be great.

I've seen the greatest.

I mean, I've seen most of the greatest, but here she is.

She already is right out there.

She could go further.

Of course, she would see.

I think that's her.

The man in January, she did what she did there the first time.

And it was a disaster.

She was singing the trombone Pirelli, who dropped his lungs throughout the whole track, and she was singing the tenor part of the trombone.

The problem was roaring back and trying to get me back online.

And then she caught her heel in the advanced scene.

She caught her heel on the floorboards and gagged on a high stage.

But she recovered very well.

Just to be right, a very fine child.

Thank you.

What are your plans, sir, to go try to sell yourself to the organizations after this?

That's tough, isn't it?

You're in New York's problem.

I've often thought of young folks like yourself who would want to be candidates.

A state like New York is much more difficult than a state like California.

The reason is that, you know, I'm a solo artist.

And the art is still art.

And the art, we've got to go up through the chairs.

And if you think about California, like, for example, when I began, when I was a congressional candidate, I was not, well, the art position didn't make any difference, but when I turned to law action, I was, we could make it anyway.

There's always a power elite.

But, uh,

There, you just gotta go in, you gotta kiss their ass.

Just don't, that's what you have to do.

Because if you go in and fight, you might win.

But then you might lose the election.

I don't know about the district, unless the district is as I just said, it was, there used to be created a very safe district.

And you gotta run it out, no.

And I mean, this one, when I first looked at it, it would have involved death in the primary against one of Marchella's protégés and Hoos.

Joe Margiano from East County.

Look at that little guy in the woods.

Howie Salmon.

Oh, yeah.

Paprika.

Boy, he used to give us fits.

We've taken to calling him by the code name that's still well used for it.

Jack O'Shea.

Peanut.

Oh, Peanut.

Peanut.

Now, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Well, in any case, that was all going up against one of his real projects.

Right on the station there.

Yeah.

And I decided it was nonsense, so my whole strategy now has been to try to get Sidney High and Queens and Margiato to see the possibility for yet another net new congressional district for the Republicans.

Oh, you mean this is what you're doing?

Yes, this is actually Rob Farrell.

He's the one who's very capable.

He's a friend of Margiato, too.

Mitchell's been talking to him.

With the prospects against Ron Calvert, everyone is very engaged.

But at this point, Cy Halpern has been given a commitment he will not have to run against Lester Wolfe, which means that you have much of your attention where I'm coming from, an asset for Washington, greater than you may know the area.

Oh, I know the area.

It's greater.

Plus a chunk of Queens, Northeastern Queens.

And it involves Halpern giving up some good area.

But you ran very well in one of the eighties there.

You got 56.6% in one of the eighties.

He always tells me he's the only Jewish congressman who is a disciplinarian.

Well, he's probably is.

He's a Jewish thing, I'm sure of it.

He kept going.

And the only one, apparently, is a Latin New Yorker.

I don't know what he was telling me.

This will all take out in January, won't it?

Yes, it's after a total portion of this meeting on that account.

And Wolf is, Wolf is vulnerable.

He has been given very very candid serendipity.

Wolf is a showboat.

He's really pleasant to the room.

And that he's a showboat and, you know, pleasure is all the rest.

But if you get a race, if you get a race between you and Wolf, you'll be in my name.

Because I think Wolf's attractiveness is worn off.

I know Mr. Wolf.

I didn't go back on the plane.

I say I went back on the plane.

I was in the traveling commercial with Japan.

He came up and talked to me.

And I said, I'm sorry.

And I've seen him many times, many times.

But he is not, he has no death, and he's not even found, and so forth.

I suppose he's in quite a bit of trouble as a campaigner.

But you, you would have, you know a hell of a lot more.

You've heard that, that is enough.

You know enough, but if you could, you know, you could show them death and concern and all the rest of this.

that he would never be able to match.

He'll go through with it.

He's probably cliched wrong.

You can use some to, you know, don't hesitate.

You have to go down there and watch the world.

This is the problem.

Do what is necessary.

Anything that says, do what is necessary in an organization, it's gonna be painful.

Yes, I don't mean,

You gotta go in there, you gotta kiss them on the tail, you gotta say, I don't wanna work with you, I don't wanna help you, I don't wanna blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But how old are you?

Well, I'm 32, and 32 means just the right age, just the right age.

It's a shame, you know.

Why doesn't the goddamn organization make some laws like this one?

Why do they not?

They don't sell it.

Did you know that they don't?

I don't understand.

Go on.

And remember, yes, it's well and sad, not that these states and the organization states have the most miserable elections.

But I don't want to give you such a lot as the, you know, the, it's rather curious that some of our best congressmen, friends and family, I don't know what the hell it is.

The dollars .

Well, this is one .

A number of young people are saving the party.

If you could pick out right now .

And I've been trying to .

I've seen Senator .

100% .

Well, I'm trying to.

I was trying to keep you there.

There I am.

You've got to go to that conservative campaign.

Yes, that's true.

That's true.

You've got to go to that campaign.

The election is a little different.

But I really think you can get away with this little conservative dichotomy of campaigns next year.

You can talk about new ideas and the New Deal is dead.

He's going to be a stockbroker.

Donaldson, Lufkin, and Jen Recker are going to give him a shelter.

Yes, he's, as you know, he's left to go to Connecticut as their environmental director.

That's a crazy thing to run for something statewide a couple of years from now.

My, my... Lufkin has?

Yes, Dan has.

Yes, I have.

And, uh, he's calling with my wife for some time.

We worked on your nationality.

That's, uh, Kiva.

And it's been exciting to see him for his management for the environment.

But he's, uh, he's making himself around.

Well, you've been a very valuable asset to our staff.

And, uh, you can't do it just for him.

You've got to be honest with us.

It's not a great job.

We've got that Congress down there and everything.

We've come up with all the domestic counsel.

There's a lot of the questions that have nothing to do with the conversation.

It's bad.

And ideas like this just keep trying to get through.

People lose this time.

They lose this time.

They actually win.

And I need to be important to the average person.

very important to speak for it, rather than the fact, well, look what I did for you.

You know, this is what I'm going to do.

What's in our people's movies that are blocking this sort of thing?

This is who I am.

John's been working on his New Towns.

That's a national growth thing lately, and we're coming up with some stuff that is beginning to look very, very interesting for next year.

He's letting Kurt Sullivan, and you've got one very great advantage, too.

You can go out as an experienced person and say, I know about this.

I know how to get things done.

I can talk.

I mean, I know all the agencies that go to the White House.

I can do things.

And I want to go in the same direction.

In other words, you will not just be a speaker, but you'll be an actor.

You want to be, I think, two of you.

And always step by just a little bit.

If the program is one that seems to be attractive, just break a little, say,

I helped to create it.

I worked on the 60-year film.

I was a part of this.

I was proud to be a part of this and this program.

But I was there, and I sat at a meeting in the camera group.

Always paint those pictures.

That's what they like better than that, than the pictures.

I sat in the morning and I heard the discussion of the presidents.

I don't know how we feel when they said this and that and the other thing, you know.

But take a look at what they've done since you got here.

Sometimes our people are, you know, they're actually honest and honest and all the rest of it.

You run off and ask a bunch of damn liars and moose.

What you don't mean, you should lie.

But I do mean, don't hide your lie that you're pushing.

Because here's your glint.

Here's your glint.

You're the right age.

You've got brains.

You're the right kind of a person for New York.

New York basically is not a... Well, it's not a park.

It's a center.

Exactly.

And you should take the center's law.

Don't be too low.

Don't get on the ground and read.

Back one hand and knock that other.

Yeah.

Well, you see, if you get on the ground and read, then you will enrage.

you'll be enraged at your Marjah.

On the other hand, don't get clear over there as one of theirs, because you don't think you'll lose the election.

So what you have to do, Mr. Marjah, is give them every personal private thing that you need to.

And that's not your public thing.

I don't know the word.

This time, I met with him for an hour a few weeks ago, and he tried to throw up at me every obstacle he could think of.

Money, I said.

I've got the money, don't worry about it.

It's not personal, but I have it.

But you can't let him get it.

Well, I'll have it.

You're not getting it.

Well, he says, you know, I've heard that before.

I've had to bail him out in the past.

And I said, Joe, you don't know me well yet, but you don't know me well enough.

I'm planning on taking the word.

I'm giving you that.

And he said, well, how do I know you wouldn't crumble in the middle of the campaign?

And I said, I'm going to face the press.

And I'm going to get 30 crowns.

That's right.

But Sidney Hine is important to the Institute.

The district will be as much in Queens as it is in some Queens County chair.

Oh, I know.

I know.

And he will be very critical here.

Do you know the man?

Or he's a pro.

He's a houseman.

He is wily and he's a bit more sophisticated than you.

Who's our manager?

We've got a manager.

I think I do.

There's a young man here who's had a lot of political experience.

He's a very conservative guy.

That's good.

Well, I'm just going to let Karl talk to some others.

Take a very conservative manager.

That will allow you to be a little more liberal.

He is.

Exactly the same thing you do.

In New York, we run moderates.

In Oklahoma, we run conservatives.

But the point is that your manager is very conservative.

And I'll interview you.

Get out and say something.

Go ahead.

Go ahead and talk to him.

That's it.

Let your manager be as, don't let his, his views don't have to necessarily reflect yours.

I guess he must make it in public statements, but he should go around saying, well, I know that you don't follow that.

He said, he agreed with the chair of the department, he thought it was in the first floor, you know, you gotta talk that kind of line.

That's all they care about is power.

That's all he cares about is power.

So play that power thing all the way you can.

It's like, don't be out there.

That's what they're trying to kill you with.

They'll say, here's this bright young guy.

And he's been down to the White House, and he's got big ideas and rest.

And we don't want one of those guys.

He's another Lindsey.

Watch that.

Don't stay a little away from that.

Don't be against him.

Stay just a little bit away, because you've got the rocket launcher in there, too.

It's coming in.

I don't think you should get involved with the Lindsey confusion.

There's a residue there, and I think the farther you stay away from that confusion, the better.

Never forget that Rockefeller hates Lindsey with a passion that has nothing to do with party, that has nothing to do with politics.

It is essentially in the gut.

and have no new philosophy.

In fact, their philosophies are very close.

But what the hell is white-seating?

I don't know why, but I noticed this with Rockefeller and his behavior.

You know, Rockefeller is not a human kind.

That's right.

He radiates and he follows always, you know, up this positive G with spirit, all that.

God, with Lindsay, I bet his eyes get cold and he stares at the abilities of another.

And don't let yourself get caught in that.

Don't get caught in it.

But I've seen the governor, and we've known each other a long time, and so he wants to be helpful, but he doesn't know about his relationship to our governor.

And the governor, I wouldn't hesitate to...

Sorry.

Let me see.

I'm sticking to Lindsey.

You've got to play it.

The governor can help you.

I don't think Lindsey can.

Exactly.

That's the point.

So, non-influence.

Proportion is the key.

Um, and if you have occasion to talk to the governor saying we have a chance at one more Republican seat, whoever gets the nomination, even that would be helpful.

Who's running that?

Bobby Douglas or who, uh, who's engineering that?

Bob is interested in it for the governor.

Would you look at it?

I think it's worth doing, sir.

We're working with somebody up there on Kent's crime right now.

I think it's Scolera probably.

Who's hitting?

Say it.

Scolera.

Scolera?

On the gunner's staff?

Just telling John, sort of say we'd like to kind of be, that I would consider sort of a personal favor.

I mean, you know, you've got to be very careful.

Well, you do, don't you, because...

Well, we'll see what we can do.

One of my friends, when I said to him, you should get active in Nassau with me, he said, well, he said, I'd be happy to join the Republicans in Nassau with Joe Margiano, or a bit more like Abraham Lincoln, and a bit less like Benito Mussolini.

We actually just threw our advancement up and stood him out, and he's very tough, Mr. President.

He's very arrogant and difficult.

The way I look at it, it's like having a

the money put together and by doing what I'm doing, building my own organization, friends, people, and then try and get it through the designation, which is what I think I can do with that.

The designation, how is that finding a designation in a district convention?

Oh, you don't have a primary.

There would be if someone came against me after I got the designation.

Well, if you don't get the designation, you might run away.

I was thinking much more seriously about it here than I would if I were on a column, but not considering going against a protege one shot.

And no one like that being talked about.

I see.

I wouldn't hesitate going to the primary.

Yes.

You don't have to fight a, uh, a real cause.

Yes.

Exactly.

So... Well, you've got a great time ahead.

I wish you well then.

And it's settling.

If you don't make it, you've still got time.

That's the beauty of this.

He's trying to go now.

It's sweet.

And I don't know if you look here, or if you're wrong, but I don't know how well it says, uh,

Thank you for the experience.

Oh, my goodness.

We appreciate all this.

I mean, we haven't been able to pay you as much as you ordered.

That's all we get for you.

See, we've got everything else we've got here.

To candidates, we always give money books.

That's very...

The other thing is, you know, that cost more than $5, so please don't give to anybody else.

Well, what was wrong with the Marshal?

One of the great controls I had was

I know.

Well, I never out there can't do it.

And then, of course, you also held me.

I'm sure we can give you one more thing before I can't.

You remember.

I think you've got all the things.

Do everything that's necessary to get the nomination.

Do it very, very, very quietly.

And then let your ideas come out afterwards.

So many people I've seen, good guys, they, you know, they are so concerned about, and I appreciate and respect their idealism and the rest, that they are unable to play.

If you were running in California, I wouldn't have to tell you this.

Even today, California is still loose enough that a guy can come in and personnel his organization.

But in New York, there is no way that a good guy can get in without playing an organization, right, John?

Well, they've only got this guy.

Well, I don't like these New York stations.

I mean, up there with all the fire and all the general charisma and everything, you still have to make his deal before you can get on the bus, you know?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I've been trying to touch all the bases.

I've had lunch with Steve Geronimo on Sunday, you know, the old...

Well, he talked very conservatively.

He said, you know, you say you can tell a kid in my business that I'm like, he's my great-grandson, Tom, but I think Lester Wolfe is a jerk.

You know, he'll appreciate that.

I said, isn't it a shame that if all I've heard, he hasn't been beaten by a jerk like Wolfe?

You know, you know how Steve is.

He's very blunt.

If you're open, sir, you can go around.

So, in regards to your new partner cook, I saw him with Gail Smith, and he told me very best.

He also said he has a tape of Bob Hope speaking at last year's dinner when she talked to my mentor.

And I said, oh, that's great.

Gail?

Gail.

I couldn't go on.

Such a humble place.

Yes, sir.

Great.

Good luck.

Thank you a lot for your help.

Thank you.