Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Foreign Aid and 1972 Presidential Campaign

4:13:14I was wrong about Bill.
4:13:15He has to get back to his mom.
4:13:17But he told me he was going to stay through Monday, and I said fine.
4:13:22I was like, what the hell did he go for?
4:13:24That's what he told me the first time.
4:13:26I said, no, he was just going to go down and come back.
4:13:30I said, I don't have to come back.
4:13:31He said, obviously, I was going to stay.
4:13:36I said, sure.
4:13:46If we get back tomorrow, it's going to be all the same shit.
4:13:50It's going to be all the same shit.
4:13:58Did you get a date on it?
4:14:00Her past couldn't be announced today.
4:14:05Did you follow up on that or not?
4:14:08Yeah, I think it's today.
4:14:09If they put it out, they should get it done today.
4:14:13Or tomorrow, but...
4:14:16What's this, my man?
4:14:16I just put it out there.
4:14:18It's a big story.
4:14:21But they've got to tell the...
4:14:23They've got to tell the ambassador.
4:14:27You know, yeah, just call it.
4:14:29Have the... What is it?
4:14:34I don't know, man.
4:14:35The Warren State Department.
4:14:37The Washington State Department.
4:14:38They know, they know.
4:14:39I'm sure the ambassador knows that we're going to announce it today, you see.
4:14:47On Reagan, he will come any time you want him to.
4:14:55He had said that the best time for him to come would be on the 16th or the 19th.
4:15:05We have not raised the question of the dinner, now we can go back to it.
4:15:10But the senator just suggested that you like to have him come to the Gandhi dinner, maybe it will work out for him.
4:15:16He could come in for that this weekend.
4:15:22Why don't we offer that?
4:15:26I think it would just be well enough.
4:15:33The other things are, if it's not that one, then I think the...
4:15:48Yeah.
4:15:49I think that would be a good question.
4:15:51Does Henry leave on the 19th?
4:15:53No, he doesn't leave until the 20th.
4:15:59He has to be here.
4:16:01I'll take it back a couple of times.
4:16:09All right.
4:16:10But I think the 19th is better than the... Yeah.
4:16:14I think it's better than the 16th.
4:17:03really almost automatic, because there isn't any real option, which is to go now, because there's nothing you can get done between now and 15.
4:17:12To go for a continuing resolution and go for 120 days instead of 90 days.
4:17:17Then, now, one problem there is Mekong is apparently talking about 30 days.
4:17:24But, and then, to hit the compass pretty hard,
4:17:32I think the important thing really about the substantive initiative would be to do that and then go for submitting our own program.
4:17:42Again, whether it's the old one or a revision of the April reform program.
4:17:49But whatever it is, we go for that submitted first thing when the new Congress comes back under heavy pressure and go for trying to get it passed before they can take a selection on it.
4:18:03I've got a lot of things behind us.
4:18:08Well, you don't have to go around with one of these erosion factors on this, which was all in amendments.
4:18:21Well, there were churches.
4:18:22Yeah, people can't vote.
4:18:25But that would be the substantive strategy, the PR strategy,
4:18:30which, or political strategy, which may be more important at this point, is that the feeling is that we should go on a strong attack on the point now that the president has launched all these initiatives in the effort for world peace, the development of a broad-based foreign policy and so forth, and that Congress, for capricious partisan reasons and all this kind of crap, has undercut it.
4:18:54Basically, and then make the point that nobody likes foreign aid, or a lot of people don't like foreign aid, but the point is that right now, like it or not, it's an essential underpinning for getting done what needs to be done.
4:19:05Right.
4:19:06And that it's time for Congress to return to sanity, to quit their mission making, and get down to taking some responsibility and getting this passed.
4:19:13And then it's all of this.
4:19:15Now, this is pretty hard.
4:19:16Yeah.
4:19:19Well, they're sensitive to that point, too.
4:19:23That's why they're here today.
4:20:15The timing of his trip, he's concerned about wandering down to Latin America.
4:20:21Well, our haste to them has kind of been cut off.
4:20:25He can make the point that we're fighting for it, but when you get across the border here, the U.S. government sees the U.S. government.
4:20:32They don't see the difference between the president and Congress.
4:20:37Henry thinks he ought to go ahead, and I think Bob's a little shaky about what he should do.
4:20:45Well, I'll tell you to wait a week or so and see what we get out of it.
4:20:48You're not going to get it.
4:20:49We'll just have a vote.
4:20:51We'll give it a little while.
4:20:54If anybody's interested.
4:20:55Nobody thinks you can get it in a week.
4:20:58Yeah, they think you might be able to get it immediately.
4:21:03They think, like they're saying in Charter Bay, Greger, and Timmons, and that's what I think.
4:21:09You're under the approach of the government.
4:21:12A lot of congressional type people have a feeling that there's a question in there now, and Colson has assumed too, that they realize they sort of wet their beds here, and that if you had our bill back intact and on the floor today, you might get it passed.
4:21:37What?
4:21:38And had the full sentence present?
4:21:39Yeah, yeah, you're right.
4:21:40Because we lost a big chunk on absentees.
4:21:42Yeah, absentees are us ones.
4:21:45Yeah, but even...
4:21:47It didn't change the result, it didn't change for us.
4:21:54Yeah, well, but we had the back.
4:21:57At least it happened to us.
4:21:58We had the whole sentence, and people like that, and we had called and asked for English, and we knew we were going to lose it.
4:22:04Yeah, yeah.
4:22:07I'm honored in retrospect, I think, that we just can't put any questions down.
4:22:15They wanted to have another incident.
4:22:18What was that again?
4:22:19What happened is that both of the boys had been fighting all week and just were tired.
4:22:25It's like football.
4:22:27They let out and intercepted the pass.
4:22:32But I'm still on hand with this.
4:22:34These are brothers.
4:22:40negative one and greater all the time.
4:22:42I said, god damn it, we won every vote.
4:22:46And what do you think we're doing out there?
4:22:49We're fighting all the time.
4:22:50And that's not fair.
4:22:50It's not fair.
4:22:51You can't just name the group, sir.
4:22:52I mean, Enriched People dropped the ball.
4:22:53They dropped the ball.
4:22:54AID sure as hell dropped the ball.
4:22:55Where were the agencies?
4:22:56Well, they got more people than we have.
4:22:58And where were Enriched People?
4:23:01I mean, the whole point is, it was a thing where the European analogy is absolutely right.
4:23:06The whole team kind of
4:23:08We were really fast for a minute before the border, and all of a sudden, at a haste, I realized that we're in a period, Bob, and it's not only in here that everything can happen over there.
4:23:16Everything must be made to be the same way.
4:23:20There'll be silly events.
4:23:21They'll try to hang on and do this or that or the other thing.
4:23:24They'll fail to pass an appropriation to big government employees or anything, you know.
4:23:29But if they can get away with it, so after just a time, I don't think they're ever going to look at history.
4:23:36But don't, but believe me, I'm not putting your life on the line.
4:23:40Oh, and he worked for it, too.
4:23:43He should have had his phone.
4:24:09They thought they had a Saturday one.
4:24:14He was gone.
4:24:14He thought he had a Saturday book.
4:24:16But he was gone.
4:24:17He was gone.
4:24:18Apparently it wasn't Saturday.
4:24:20Now what do they want to do?
4:24:28What is our schedule this week in terms of meetings?
4:24:31Do we have a lecture this week?
4:24:35Ford, a mighty partner, has asked,
4:24:49I heard that they have, just the two of them, have a meeting with you just on a legislative program review.
4:24:56And Clark says that's the only important legislative leaders meeting.
4:25:00You don't need a leaders meeting with the group this week.
4:25:03There's a question whether Scott and Griffin ought to be included.
4:25:07He's checking that out.
4:25:08But what they'd like to do is do that tomorrow afternoon, rather than tomorrow morning.
4:25:13So today, no, they're currently out.
4:25:16The problem is, tomorrow is election day, and they're going to be out of it.
4:25:21They're going to be back in the afternoon.
4:25:24They're going to be out of it tomorrow.
4:25:32They're going to be out of it tomorrow.
4:25:34The idea was to do this at 5.30.
4:25:38Now, my thought on a part of the... Well, that's...
4:25:43What about on the PR side?
4:25:45I had one thing I had down, and that's to get Rogers in there.
4:25:49Then I had to go out and talk to the White House first about what we were going to do.
4:25:57But that's on now.
4:25:57We'll do that tomorrow.
4:25:59We'll have Rogers come in.
4:26:03It's true.
4:26:03It's better to have Rogers do it than anybody else.
4:26:05I guess there's nobody... Yeah, it would be good if he isn't affected at all.
4:26:13I don't know.
4:26:40Now it gets to 9.30 a.m. Oh, okay.
4:26:42Better idea after that.
4:26:46All right, fine.
4:26:47All right, that's enough to do.
4:26:50There's that, sis.
4:26:58We need to do this as well.
4:27:04Later.
4:27:07This is something we have up this week.
4:27:10and all that sort of thing.
4:27:14The Reagan coming in is not quite the right thing.
4:27:17Okay.
4:27:17Just let it go and say, fine, either he or they is all right.
4:27:26It might be just a little bit important.
4:27:27I would think maybe before the governor's time, that's it, but it doesn't... You're not thinking of doing anything on the 15th announcement?
4:27:36I don't think so.
4:27:39Okay, make it 60.
4:27:40Said that'd be a little bit better, didn't it?
4:27:53Okay.
4:28:04Okay.
4:28:04Okay.
4:28:13Basically, they didn't want to talk to the mayor.
4:28:20They didn't care.
4:28:21Hence, we've got to expect a certain thing.
4:28:22Therefore, we really want to avoid it as much as possible.
4:28:26expect a serious political attack on our own people who've got to do that.
4:28:32You've got to say Colson did a good job lining up his little toys with Bush and the Kennedy thing.
4:28:39But you've got to say, we've never done that before.
4:28:42Goddamn, we just didn't.
4:28:42We've been doing it for two years and never had any of that sort of going.
4:28:46You know, except when I thank you.
4:28:48Right across the board from the China account.
4:28:49Did you take their heads up?
4:28:53He's ready to hit them.
4:28:55It's a very good job.
4:28:58I guess Bush really did a good job.
4:28:59He ought to keep that in mind.
4:29:01Absolutely.
4:29:02It's hard.
4:29:06He's got to not be partisan.
4:29:09There's a way to handle it.
4:29:10He doesn't have to be totally...
4:29:13The thing is, you've got to say this for him.
4:29:17Rogers could really be tougher than he is.
4:29:21He just would.
4:29:22But he's...
4:29:25Don't choose me, you know.
4:29:27Get my good chick in the ass and they, well, if Bush starts getting tough and getting some credit for it, it'll get around you so it'll suffer a kid.
4:29:37Well, he likes it, of course.
4:29:44He's just considered to be a heavyweight by then because of that certain
4:29:52You know, this contrast has become, it's a nice guy, you know, he's basically, I think they read the column, and he gets much favor, you know, he's apparently, he's too tough, and I'm so professional, et cetera, et cetera, but he's there, he is a factor, and they know he's a factor, and when he's a factor, he has to be contended with, and in Bill's case, he's solid, you know, he's always brave, he's a nice fellow, very courteous, and all that sort of thing, but he gets considered, he gets considered in this position, who the hell is he?
4:30:20That's the point.
4:30:26This is the second push.
4:30:27Push it to the point.
4:30:30Now.
4:30:34Just give it.
4:30:35Play the rigging line a little.
4:30:36It comes to come in.
4:30:37Let's give it this balance.
4:30:48This is going to be a small curve.
4:30:49We've got a line.
4:30:51Now we're going to get it forward.
4:30:52This is the second push.
4:30:54Do you want anybody down there?
4:30:57No, I don't.
4:30:58There's no need to.
4:30:59No, I've got to work.
4:31:00So Rush is not going to be in at 6 o'clock tonight.
4:31:04Should we try to get him to come in earlier?
4:31:07So you get an afternoon shot at him?
4:31:08It's only 9.30.
4:31:10He could be here by then.
4:31:121 o'clock.
4:31:17What do we want?
4:31:18I don't either.
4:31:18I kind of think it's just as well.
4:31:20As long as Daddy's good anyhow.
4:31:22Let this baby screw her out.
4:31:25I don't think he did.
4:31:29I don't know what the hell he could go out and say today.
4:31:36He goes out and they question him, what are you going to do?
4:31:40What is your reaction to this or that?
4:31:42He may not know.
4:31:43Yeah, we need to do a little more dirty dirty.
4:31:45No, I think we best better let her go.
4:31:46Right, let her go.
4:31:47Okay.
4:31:49Well, I decline to think that on this side,
4:31:54We got the church this time.
4:31:57We have the 14th.
4:32:00Okay.
4:32:22In the 15th group announcement, you're just going to release something, is that right?
4:32:25You're not going to make a statement and go on TV or anything?
4:32:34It's an oppressive plan.
4:32:35Right.
4:32:35With Rogers, I would have him in tomorrow.
4:32:41What time is my plan?
4:32:5111.
4:32:5110. 5.
4:32:52Well, you're not going to have a rifle, sir.
4:32:55No, no.
4:32:55Oh, that's right.
4:32:57The man has an officer that does an honor guard for him, but no, you don't go outside.
4:33:04930 for Rogers.
4:33:04We don't need a car, because we've got to go to the office.
4:33:09Okay, I think Rogers should go out and get depressed tomorrow.
4:33:23Okay, uh, the uh...
4:33:52Over to Kevin.
4:33:54Yeah, I have.
4:34:06Connolly, I told you to return on the 11th.
4:34:15Now they're saying it may be the 14th, so I'm not sure on that one.
4:34:18Yes, I don't believe it.
4:34:21That we must figure him for anything that we can.
4:34:27We can put a load for sure.
4:34:29We can put quite a bit of wood into these people this morning.
4:34:34Well, that's a part of it.
4:34:35That's the general feeling.
4:34:37You can't go every way, I mean, you know.
4:34:39Of getting out and, you know, of going to that level.
4:34:42You see, they don't want you to do it.
4:34:44This is one.
4:34:45Oh, I want to sit on it.
4:34:46I want to talk to you.
4:34:47I'm concerned you're going to feel it.
4:34:50This camera.
4:34:51This is a good camera.
4:34:56I'll accept it.
4:34:57I just can't think of a better camera.
4:34:59Or a third one.
4:35:00Or stuff like, for a full lead.
4:35:02Or even a Jedi.
4:35:02I could have a Jedi for that transportation thing.
4:35:10I just don't want to sit there with them and have them banging about.
4:35:19I don't want to have them there either.
4:35:23I just think it's better... Well...
4:35:33I think he could be there.
4:35:35I think he could be there.
4:35:36Let him be there at her side as a political man.
4:35:39I think it would be good to have that meeting first.
4:35:42Wow.
4:35:44Wow.
4:35:46Wow.
4:35:47Wow.
4:35:48Well, I don't think it's fair to put a comment into that position where he's directly a partisan commentator.
4:35:56Yeah.
4:35:57We don't have a name separate.
4:35:59You see my point?
4:36:00Yeah.
4:36:00I think, for example, you ought to have a comment for one of the raw, raw seconds.
4:36:07Yeah.
4:36:07After he gets back.
4:36:08Well, it was kind of funny, those two, but I don't get why I didn't get into the basic political nut-cutting question without the... without the... Now, I think you ought to have that certain...
4:36:20I think next year the vice president should preside and have it here.
4:36:24Have it here in Canterham.
4:36:26Now, it really is a good idea if I leave it Monday because it's tied up or not here.
4:36:33Well, Friday might be a good time.
4:36:36The point is, you know, I'll be here, I'll be here, but I'll be here when the mess is gone.
4:36:40So you can have it here in Canterham.
4:36:41Or her, the advisor's company, and I'll show it over to the other place.
4:36:49You see what I mean?
4:36:50That's exactly what I mean.
4:36:51Yeah, I know, but I can't get my ears to hear it.
4:36:54Well, you let me talk about it.
4:36:56I do not want to live in the tent.
4:36:58I just don't want to get into the tent.
4:37:00No, and all these people in the building will come up with stuff that I don't want to stay out of.
4:37:05See, I just want to stay out of it.
4:37:07Isn't that better?
4:37:09Or nobody be content to do that.
4:37:11If they sit around, if they're not convinced, well, we can get them out of this town.
4:37:18Often there's a command for one.
4:37:20And they'd want to include this political fellow from the department, too.
4:37:24And the tie to this one is that that is exactly the year before the election.
4:37:27So that's the weekend before, you know, the year before the election.
4:37:31So we launched the election.
4:37:32And why don't you say without saying that I'm not going to be there?
4:37:36That's right.
4:37:40I wouldn't say you are going to be there.
4:37:41I just invite you to be a part of that meeting, and I'll come in and hold it, and say, I'm going to go meet you.
4:37:49And that's what it will be.
4:37:51See what I mean?
4:37:52Now, you don't see her till 11.
4:37:53I've got to go prepare for it.
4:37:55Yeah, yeah.
4:37:56Have a meeting at 10 o'clock.
4:37:59Something like that.
4:38:00Or 8.30.
4:38:00Right.
4:38:02Well, what I meant that is that I, I, I give a statement.
4:38:06I gave a statement.
4:38:07It's political.
4:38:09It's political.
4:38:10I'm the vice president.
4:38:11I do not want to participate in it.
4:38:14I'm the interstate.
4:38:20I take all the political crap out of my way.
4:38:25Now, one thing, which, uh,
4:38:38I think we ought to tell them to be a fairly long meeting.
4:38:41Yes, two hours, we're going to stay there.
4:38:43I think it's two hours, yeah.
4:38:43It just has to be.
4:38:45Well, but you have to, this is only a political agenda, this is, but get her, and let me know if you can.
4:38:52Unless you want to, it walks at the beginning, it walks through that transportation stop, and go out of the way.
4:38:58What?
4:38:58It looks like he's always trying to have a meeting.
4:39:01Let's let him give us a reason to crap around on something else later that I'm trying to fix today.
4:39:05Okay.
4:39:06I think that then, the next meeting in the cabin after that, there should be a convoy there, and then a convoy get a report, and then get that transport press in there, you see.
4:39:14Fair enough.
4:39:15And, uh...
4:39:17I got a little bit of that.
4:39:26But the problem, at least, that's a part of the order, because that'd be running a little bit.
4:39:32It comes off that malice memory.
4:39:34Yeah, I know.
4:39:38Won't take long.
4:39:41I tell you, the political meetings is part of the same thing.
4:39:46Well, no, it isn't really.
4:39:48No, it's not.
4:39:48I think the political meetings should be pretty much on that subject, yeah.
4:39:52An hour and a half to two hours, isn't it?
4:39:55Yeah.
4:39:55And then you pick up those little... See, the transport thing also doesn't need to be long, because all the undersecretaries are meeting on that.
4:40:02Well, then you have the problems of the... Well, they do have a call on the 15th, you know, that's to make it on the...
4:40:10I don't want to tie in the middle of the leaf, because I haven't retained that, in case I want to go in there and press it at that point.
4:40:18That would be when I would do it.
4:40:19Let's see what else is coming up there.
4:40:23We've figured possible pressing on the 18th.
4:40:26Yeah.
4:40:28We're putting right on the 16th now.
4:40:38Yeah, that's right, right on the 16th.
4:40:4517 quid.
4:40:46But we'll also keep the 11 as possible because we'll save the money.
4:40:51I may want to do one or the other in the past.
4:40:57I may want to do it on some other farm.
4:40:594, 12, 6, 11.
4:40:59We want to do it on 200 pounds.
4:41:10That's what we need to do.
4:41:1220, 30, 40.
4:41:17What's the date of the Chinese?
4:41:3023rd.
4:41:30What time is it?
4:41:314.
4:41:31Okay, we haven't had that confirmed yet.
4:41:38Okay, thank you.
4:41:48Right.
4:41:48Thank you.
4:41:49It's not a very probable forethought.
4:41:56Hi, John.
4:42:00Hi.
4:42:03If you well know, most of these people are... Let me say it first.
4:42:11The weakness of the account that it is, is the failure to have, is the failure to have Bolson on there.
4:42:17You've got to have somebody lucky on that account.
4:42:22You know what I mean?
4:42:24You'll have Dole in there.
4:42:27You'll have Dominic, does he come in?
4:42:32No.
4:42:33Not Dominic.
4:42:34Well, you have Dole.
4:42:37You don't have Dominic?
4:42:39No.
4:42:40I would, could you not talk like the Senate?
4:42:41I was going to say I explained the desired relationship between the Department of the White House and the Republican Committee at the time, and then the campaign committees.
4:42:49Oh, I see.
4:42:49Let me say that this meeting is to be held.
4:42:53I really want it organized so that it's down to, so that you decide in advance what you want the cabinet officers to take out of it.
4:43:03See, what you want them to be thinking about, what they can do, how they can help, you know, and how they can help in their departments and so forth and so on.
4:43:20I like the idea of doing it in your absence.
4:43:45I think it might be a very...
4:43:46If you do have any answers, you can say that.
4:43:48I've asked you to discuss this one.
4:43:50One is the weak question, the other is the political question.
4:43:54So that they know you know what's being done.
4:44:00I'll try to solve it.
4:44:03He's a conservative, but he's also a very bad jerk, and he's a jerk.
4:44:29After reading the file, it just isn't any question.
4:44:31His judgments are a lot more important.
4:44:33Bill doesn't want to go to trial.
4:44:41I don't know that he doesn't want to do it, but I know that he has laid a foundation for resisting this by the things that he said in his press conference.
4:44:51So, anyway, the people that lead with it, the State Department is clean and so on and so forth.
4:44:57We're the leaders.
4:45:00at the moment of crisis.
4:45:03That was a long time.
4:45:04Nobody knew what happened.
4:45:05Well, this was a piece that was right at the pipe.
4:45:07It continues to make you think what we can do without saying.
4:45:11The State Department is just saying we have moved in one piece, and we are prepared to move in others, and doctors and pedagogues are responsible for their systems.
4:45:26and just lay out this sort of pyramid for us, so that we can expect that this is going to happen, and so forth and so on.
4:45:31I wouldn't want to have a whole land gate that was in rent, and in Paris, and all that sort of thing.
4:45:36You see, it's, you know, what you've got to, we've all got to know that we expect to be goddamned competent.
4:45:43It ties in to this concept that we're moving to the political system.
4:45:47Every year before the election, everything that we do now, everything that we do, there's just going to be a political issue.
4:45:57There's nothing good that we can do with it.
4:45:59Everyone else would be that way.
4:46:02HR1 is screwed.
4:46:03Revenue insurance is screwed.
4:46:05Why?
4:46:05For example, we're barking around with the tax bill.
4:46:11Why?
4:46:12Right?
4:46:13Everything is political.
4:46:15Now, I had this thought.
4:46:19And this exercise, this is probably a time to do this.
4:46:26All these people can do it.
4:46:30This year, of course, we will have a board policy report.
4:46:34It's a very sensitive panel.
4:46:48which in which they will have an opportunity to speak of their issues and so on.
4:46:53Now, give me a second.
4:46:54One of the areas where we have really been taking a bad ride is the many, not only positive initiatives, but positive accomplishments of this administration and the domestic community.
4:47:07And that we know that around this table there's area after area after area where we've done things
4:47:13They're also various.
4:47:14And that's where we say, here's what we have accomplished.
4:47:18And then, second, here is what we can propose.
4:47:21In other words, what I'm going to add is, and I would like to add, I think that in terms of their getting a good speech ready for themselves, getting a good speech ready for good speech material for people all over the country, that they should prepare by...
4:47:42Not on a mass basis, but on a tightly greased, hard-hitting, one, two, three, simple basis.
4:47:50They can have a lot of back of the church.
4:47:52A paper is to, what's the department?
4:47:55If the department of agriculture does anything good for Christ's sake, let's find out why.
4:48:01You know what I mean?
4:48:03So they'll say, yes, but not really.
4:48:06But no, it's all right.
4:48:07It's the point.
4:48:08They've got, you know, all the positive things that have happened.
4:48:33Maybe what I'm saying is, if you remember last year, it was sort of aborted, but it came off fairly well.
4:48:41It got fairly good for us, you remember?
4:48:44The time that these must be available must be in the period before, and well before that period.
4:48:52So they get it right after Christmas, the fourth version of the year.
4:48:55It's a dead spot in the news.
4:48:56Every one of these guys should have a report.
4:48:58They should be well-programmed, like they did last year, but for the three years, too.
4:49:03Not just for the year.
4:49:05I was at a three-year report for the Kansas people, and they take personal charge of this, and their stewardship, and all that sort of thing.
4:49:14What do you think?
4:49:15Is it a good idea?
4:49:16Yes, sir.
4:49:16I may want to think of it.
4:49:17Maybe we'll learn some things.
4:49:18It'll be the way.
4:49:19Yeah.
4:49:20We've got to keep it a separate day.
4:49:22We've got to keep it a separate day.
4:49:24Maybe we have to spread it over longer.
4:49:27Well, we think it's a good idea.
4:49:28Because of a lot of things that happened, it took us about two weeks to get all of it on the last time.
4:49:35I guess that's okay.
4:49:37We'll work it out.
4:49:40So that's it.
4:49:44Ten fine ways for ten of the facts to these reports this time, maybe we can get them on the television, on specials, on issues and answers, etc., etc., rather than just trying to write it on the newspapers this time.
4:49:55We have a client, we have a scholar, at least we turn it, and they are going to use the terms as well, and put it on the papers at the end of the day.
4:50:05Thank you.
4:50:11I think this gives a positive, because when you really come down, as far as these guys, they're not going to contribute to the politics.
4:50:22They're really not.
4:50:24They'll make a speech.
4:50:25I mean, when you come down, they're not speaking.
4:50:27What can they really do?
4:50:28You're really getting down to the top politics.
4:50:30They're really not.
4:50:32It never hurts.
4:50:33Except Mitchell, who, of course, is not a speaker.
4:50:40Maybe, I'm bold to say, we can't go over to Massachusetts most of the time, so.
4:50:48Yeah, but only, we just, we, all you do is go talk to the sons of Edwin.
4:50:53Yeah.
4:50:54Other ethnic type groups.
4:50:55What I'm getting at is we have to be quite, quite candid in knowing that as far as this has to be concerned, they're only going to be worth a damn in terms of
4:51:05of a, let's face it, frame of each of them is not a building you saw.
4:51:11They're just not going to be worthy to have.
4:51:14Well, the whole point of this meeting, one of the things, is to try and push them into a way of thinking, as a group, so that they will individually have taken, some of them taking the attack, which they can start.
4:51:26And Elliot did it.
4:51:27George Bush did it.
4:51:28He's not, of course, he was in the cabinet.
4:51:31Okay, but we can make that point.
4:51:33We can get George Bush, or if the high and mighty post-demand nations can do it, then George Romney sure as hell can for the rest.
4:51:39Well, the guy's a kid, the people lived him.
4:51:42He paid a lot.
4:51:43You can't pinch a rock star on that deal.
4:51:47Believe me.
4:51:47You come right down to it.
4:51:49I was saying about one of the problems with the cabinet times, let me relax.
4:51:53I was comparing Rodgers, the way he gets across, the way the economy's gotten across.
4:52:01And Rodgers, if you were to ask the press, which they like the better, Rodgers would be 10 to 1.
4:52:09over perhaps Connolly or any other under the table.
4:52:12But if you ask, who is the big man?
4:52:16It's Connolly, number one.
4:52:18Now, in other words, this whole business of going out, being clever, and so forth, although Bill is a good time, but his whole thrust is that he judges every press congressman.
4:52:32What did they like me?
4:52:34Get my point?
4:52:36And,
4:52:37I don't think that's a judgment in terms of did they like me.
4:52:39The question is how did they cover me?
4:52:41Did I get my point across?
4:52:43Do they know what I mean?
4:52:44Now, those people, if you ask them, they will gradually say, well, it was a net for the performance, but they hate his cuts.
4:52:52Am I correct?
4:52:53I'm sure you are.
4:52:55They have the same reaction.
4:52:56His cuts, they have mine.
4:52:58They don't like them.
4:52:59We're the net.
4:53:00George Bush on his prop show yesterday,
4:53:04He just threw his ambassadorial man over the wind and got right in and made his point.
4:53:12And what's the fact?
4:53:14He made himself a better ambassador.
4:53:17That's damn right.
4:53:19You get a good example of the kind of things you can do.
4:53:25I'm sure you hear stories about that.
4:53:32And here's Charlie O's bank.
4:53:33No wonder we didn't get it out of the U.N. when we went up there.
4:53:36We got bad, cold, cool receptions the whole time.
4:53:39Gloria didn't know why.
4:53:40I didn't know why.
4:53:41It was the goddamn people that we had up there.
4:53:45The whole delegation's against us.
4:53:46I don't mean our people.
4:53:47We're the point.
4:53:48We're just the center of the temple.
4:53:50People like to do that, but I didn't do it, so they did it.
4:53:52I see my point.
4:53:53The party has been out there for a while.
4:53:56That permanent party, there's a bunch of them that went masters.
4:54:00It's the Pedersen types.
4:54:02And they're all obsessed with solving them all, you know, the boolean of the search.
4:54:06They're part of that, worse than that.
4:54:09They're part of, I don't know, not just the foresters, and they're the foresters who do that.
4:54:13And I'm totally amazed at the kind of mission.
4:54:16It's just unbelievable.
4:54:20Well, I don't know.
4:54:23What I had to do,
4:54:24I think you're going to get more success out of John each time that I push him on the positive side.
4:54:31You can't tell a bench or a rock star to attack.
4:54:34They aren't going to do it.
4:54:36But you can.
4:54:38Maybe I'll let you know.
4:54:39Okay.
4:54:47What trust do you think this political piece of the government should give these two dogs?
4:54:52That's why they take this kind of time.
4:54:54So it gets down to the whole thing, talking about why don't we have more intelligence in the Supreme Court?
4:54:57Forget it.
4:54:58Or Robby said, why don't we do more for Household?
4:55:00Forget it.
4:55:01That's what it's all about.
4:55:03See what I mean?
4:55:04I can see this as a total waste of time for them.
4:55:07Except for the fact they love to talk about it.
4:55:11Have you had any thoughts, sister?
4:55:13What do you think?
4:55:14What are the issues here?
4:55:36But I should, no, you should, I should be given, they should be given this block in your name.
4:55:42And they should be encouraged, by Elliot's example, to go out and pick a target and wham!
4:55:49And I think now, if you were to ask Hodgson, or you were to ask Harden, or some of these guys, if they should do that or not, they'd say, gee, I'd never do that without clearing up with the White House.
4:56:01And it is said that just right under the hall, when they take somebody off and somebody squeals, we're going to be worried about, listen, if there's anybody in this whole administration that's taking somebody off, any member of our staff who gets a bad press that is backed up 1,000%, the only ones I wish about are the ones that don't do a goddamn thing, or the ones that are stuck around in the press.
4:56:25Some of them are not inclined to do it by nature, but I think there's a certain...
4:56:30You have constructed the rest.
4:56:33I think under the point of saying, you know, we've done three years of building and directory, now we've got one year to set aside.
4:56:43And that we've got to also make an appointment.
4:56:47Make an appointment.
4:56:49So the rest will be extremely helpful.
4:56:51Because he's got so much thinking about this.
4:56:54And then they appoint that.
4:56:58We're not a political system.
4:57:00Everything that we do is good.
4:57:01You just don't know how bad it's going to be.
4:57:04You're going to have a bigger department just loyally in the league, so let's take care of that.
4:57:08You're going to have a situation where the press and everything we've done is going to be forgotten.
4:57:13They always say, they say, this here, this administration, more reforms, more nations, and I mean, they say, we have our hand, right?
4:57:21No leadership before, and that's correct.
4:57:24They say that we haven't, that we aren't pushing our, our, uh,
4:57:48They're doing that on this one, this morning.
4:57:50First of all, he didn't care.
4:57:51That's his point.
4:57:52He didn't do anything to get it.
4:57:53And his point is, you lost it because you overloved it.
4:57:56Because we set you on your own things.
4:57:58We told him something we weren't happy with.
4:58:01What did you do?
4:58:01You played a hard one.
4:58:02But, just think, in all these people's, for these poor folks, and the rest of us, here they are, stumbling out there, and they're Cadillacs and all the rest of them.
4:58:15But, you know, really, they've got big offices and all that sort of thing, but they know they don't amount to a goddamn.
4:58:20Now, they can amount to something.
4:58:22They really can, if they get in and fight.
4:58:25That's the point they have to realize now.
4:58:27But they're going to take some heat if they fight.
4:58:31And they've got to be big boys.
4:58:33Correct?
4:58:33Yeah, we have some examples.
4:58:36Just so, just so.
4:58:53I said, of course we understand that in defense and in state there are special problems.
4:59:01On the other hand, I would then go on and pray his question.
4:59:07See my point?
4:59:08I pray his question.
4:59:09One of the effective things is what he did.
4:59:11He did it without being partisan.
4:59:12But he talked specifically about that.
4:59:16He accused the others of partisanship.
4:59:18And we got to it.
4:59:22The message made very suddenly across the road, which I cannot keep my mind on.
4:59:24But his tendency, even though he was an attorney general, Jesus Christ, he never did this.
4:59:26You know, I always say this, he never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never,
4:59:46No, I've heard of a cop, too, to do the act.
4:59:48Act presides.
4:59:50But that act, that set aside, the attorney general is, uh, is just going to, uh, go to his, his, his, his responsibilities here.
5:00:01Which is three of that job, to find her, and that act, but, but her idea of an act of unattention.
5:00:09And that, but that act presides, you see.
5:00:13And, uh,
5:00:16Sound good?
5:00:16That's all right?
5:00:18How's the idea?
5:00:19I think it's very much a job.
5:00:22It's good for all the people that are participating and everything.
5:00:28I think that we have a great record on the domestic side.
5:00:33We've got a house to go out and prove that we have it.
5:00:36Also, we've got to defend ourselves.
5:00:40And the way to defend ourselves is to attack the other side.
5:00:49We've got to get it.
5:00:51Did you read this attachment for that memo that...
5:00:55They signed for John Mitchell, but I think Jeff Bruder wrote it.
5:00:58It is the format for this meeting.
5:00:59So they've given him a lot of thought.
5:01:01We ought to get a sample format in and go over it ourselves.
5:01:07Well, here's my story.
5:01:11Oh, I didn't know him so much then.
5:01:13I would cut that down awful long.
5:01:55Thank you.
5:02:23Well, I will let me, it's a good idea to let me knock it down, but I just have a feeling that they just want to go on and on and on.
5:02:34Well, there's no need for them to have all the details.
5:02:36They're in the need for them to know that they're all structured and, you know, how it's set up and all that.
5:02:42You raised a close question.
5:02:44You've got a real problem here, as you know.
5:02:46We haven't got a lot of mental...
5:02:49Well, they don't have to come.
5:02:50Well, he's got to be there, but he shouldn't have a legal mask.
5:02:53He's got to wear it.
5:02:54But it's a different way.
5:02:56And who's going to cheer him up?
5:02:58Who's going to be positive?
5:02:59Well, I think we can train positiveness throughout this and catch.
5:03:05Go for it.
5:03:06That's the way it's done.
5:03:07I've got to try and get gold.
5:03:09How about scallion?
5:03:11Can we slice the scallion in this?
5:03:14It might be.
5:03:15You guys don't understand what you've done yet.
5:03:18And then, also, look, there are an infinite number of ways for you to present this stuff.
5:03:25We're going to work with your PIOs, and with my imagination, vitality, and version.
5:03:30What are you going to look like?
5:03:33I don't know if it's true.
5:03:34Well, that's partly what I had in mind, because we would use Scali as kind of a consultant.
5:03:40Right.
5:03:42That's a novel idea.
5:03:42Well, you've got to have heard of it, but we've never heard of it.
5:03:45I've had to do this every once in a while.
5:03:47It's always a good job to follow it.
5:03:53He just does not, well, it is not inspiring, that's my point.
5:03:57It's just not.
5:03:57He can say, oh, the president's asked his consultant, now, to talk to you.
5:04:01And then he comes in, he's on the outside, he's seen it from the other side.
5:04:04He can give you an idea as to where they know we're going.
5:04:06Let's go, he's got a postmark.
5:04:08So that's a good idea.
5:04:09And then he's got a little tag, and so forth and so on.
5:04:16How's that?
5:04:16That's a good idea.
5:04:17That's a good idea.
5:04:21Maybe quietly.
5:04:22I think maybe he could be out of town on this one, really, because there's no way that he could sense himself, and he will not have a minute to have it.
5:04:30So we'll take him there.
5:04:34So we get him to the door, and we get him to the bar, and he'll meet with the P.I.O.
5:04:41ahead of time, and we can do it, I think.
5:04:47What date is it?
5:04:48It's going to be the 5th, right.
5:04:49Why doesn't it work like the PIO does anymore?
5:04:53He works pretty much alone.
5:04:54Yeah.
5:04:57Rumsfeld can speak enthusiastically.
5:04:59He's one of the few.
5:05:02Rumsfeld?
5:05:03He can at least speak enthusiastically.
5:05:04Oh, we have a program out here.
5:05:05Yeah.
5:05:05The program is this.
5:05:06We're smart.
5:05:07He won't attack.
5:05:08Of course, Martin will.
5:05:09Martin will talk for himself.
5:05:10Martin will talk for himself.
5:05:13He hasn't taken anybody off.
5:05:48So that schools the segregation money, and hires a case, and complicates the legislative maneuver, and he's off the middle between us and the Congress, but he's right there.
5:06:07He will learn.
5:06:08That's the way to get ahead in the world, too.
5:06:14Well, then, downstream, we'll do this transpose 72
5:06:18Yes, sir.
5:06:50They could say some things even sooner than that
5:07:13Like what's said this morning, just look up and don't say anything.
5:07:18Don't program us to answer questions.
5:07:21Keep it loose.
5:07:23We've made a mistake in trying to get some speakers out explaining what phase 2 is, because we don't know what phase 2 is, and that it's wrong to have a guy out trying to say what it is, because no, it's better not to say anything.
5:07:35And they tried to... Pete Pierce made the point that he just, he just said, I'm international economic policy, and I don't know if he's avoiding me.
5:07:49Yeah, we can press that at this point.
5:07:51I don't want to say that they said things.
5:07:54I think these guys should stand and go around and say one thing, and Ron is saying another, and if Rumsfeld could just get up, he's going to hit them across the living council.
5:08:06Well, let me ask this.
5:08:08Well, let me ask, why don't you tell Rumsfeld that you're going to meet for a meeting all night?
5:08:13Yeah, well, why don't you put up, shall we say, tell Rumsfeld that you're going to meet?
5:08:19They had a meeting right away on that.
5:08:21They do regularly.
5:08:22They still go out and cover for history.
5:08:24They still go out, you know, once or any day on a space topic.
5:08:29No, I don't think you need to do anything on that.
5:08:34Actually, you know, we handle it on an individual basis anyway.
5:08:39Just like this reorganization thing that I mentioned to you, we're going to have to have Volpe and Romney, of course Harden's gone, but we can have Campbell in, and let Carlucci, which has been in your presence on this, on supporting your reorganization thing.
5:08:57What does that mean, Volpe with his paraplegic?
5:09:02Oh no, he has an airplane as long as he has a coaster.
5:09:10And if he doesn't have it there, he'll have one in the FAA.
5:09:14He'll have an airplane regardless of what happens.
5:09:20But those things can be handled either in smaller groups or I'm glad if you want to do something.
5:09:24I don't really know what I'm talking about.
5:09:28It seems to me that that's what Rumsfeld and Schultz had all thought he needed to do, because they were whacking away at him on a regular basis.
5:09:35And it's really time to stand and say, here's why they get on him.
5:09:38Here's the best thing you really need to do.
5:09:41Why do you think Sanchez got him out?
5:09:44It's not possible.
5:09:45He accepts speaking days, and then he goes out, and when you stand up, you have to say something.
5:09:50And he has to look, you know, they ask me questions, and he has to, he can't say, I don't know.
5:09:53So he says something else, and it creates a future.
5:09:55It's tough.
5:09:56Nature, of course, back you.
5:09:58Well, it's tough.
5:09:59I understand.
5:10:00Please, you're crazy.
5:10:03Of course, I'm going to drop it there.
5:10:06You've got to say something once you do it.
5:10:45I think the idea of getting a program now for the other system leaders is just right.
5:10:51It's a good thing, and it's really, it will serve our purposes too.
5:10:55But they've got to think, that's on the policy side.
5:10:59Somebody calls them like scouts, and they hit somebody.
5:11:03You've got to say something to make an impression.
5:11:07You just use the lines.
5:11:10Be popular with the press.
5:11:13Doesn't mean it should affect him.
5:11:17You know what he should do?
5:11:20He should stay down.
5:11:20He should stay calm.
5:11:23You said it exactly.
5:11:24See, he isn't here.
5:11:25But if he were to poll, perhaps, his popularity, he wouldn't rate very high.
5:11:30But on the other hand, he's enormously effective.
5:11:32Because he strikes hard, you know, at defense, and so forth.
5:11:39Would that be a good idea?
5:11:42We're not sure about it as much, like Alisop's confidence and so on, whether that's exactly the psychology he's using.
5:11:54I just wonder what people are jealous of, and so forth.
5:11:59We don't want to have anybody accuse me of having figured out how to successfully approach a cat, psychologically speaking.
5:12:12Well, I understand comedy may be just too raw, with some of all the jokes I've seen.
5:13:11Ask how many people, how many people know members of this gathering.
5:13:17Start with a, any other copy would be up there.
5:13:21They do drop down so far that it's almost beyond the summit.
5:13:25And you come down and you hit Mitchell.
5:13:28Mitchell is higher than Mitchell.
5:13:30And Laird and Mitchell.
5:13:31Maybe Laird is lower than Rogers.
5:13:34Rogers is behind Mitchell.
5:13:37Rogers is behind Mitchell.
5:13:39Rogers is down there in Laird.
5:13:41And then the rest of it is Zillow.
5:13:43Well, the point is that on the Laird, on the Rocky, the one who should be up there with any disruptions
5:14:22So true.
5:14:23It's got to be harshness.
5:14:26Narrow.
5:14:26Midline.
5:14:26Morton.
5:14:27No visibility at all.
5:14:31Even though he was proposed to pass the term.
5:14:37Morton has that.
5:14:38Popey has that.
5:14:39Stanton has that.
5:14:40Romney has that.
5:14:43Richard has some.
5:14:45Richard's a little man, sir.
5:14:47He doesn't bring much.
5:14:49Hardness.
5:14:49Hardness.
5:14:49Hardness.
5:14:50Hardness.
5:14:50Absolutely not.
5:14:52Hard cash on it.
5:14:57Well, because that's the way the cabinet is on it.
5:15:00Not necessarily, so...
5:15:02Speaking of the cabinet, did you see that on Udall this morning?
5:15:05Yes, I did.
5:15:06Udall is a cabinet member in 3.11.
5:15:09It's Stuart Clark.
5:15:11Oh, yes, sir.
5:15:12He has an army deserter assigned to his cabinet, and he introduced it to the press.
5:15:20I'm going to check, but I think the desertion must have overlapped his term of secretary of the desertion.
5:15:31It's kind of an interesting problem.
5:15:47Well, it's so...
5:15:48It's such a...
5:15:49I feel for the poor bastards.
5:15:51You know, you've got to see some of the letters that come in here from some of these kids that are rushing to Canada.
5:15:57I can't really get the evidence.
5:16:01Well, most of them are wrapped up.
5:16:03Oh, of course.
5:16:04This guy's a deserter.
5:16:06Oh, he's a deserter, yeah.
5:16:08Oh, Jesus.
5:16:08Oh, this other guy's got a letter that I have to draft out here.
5:16:14It's so funny.
5:16:45Well, we've been around for several times.
5:16:50We're trying to do things as well.
5:16:52Oh yeah, and we haven't done anything directly on this basis.
5:16:56But now we're in it for a long time.
5:16:58Yeah.
5:16:58No, at all.
5:17:00It's just the PR.
5:17:01It's also the substances.
5:17:03They've got to get control of their department and look at the decision-making.
5:17:06Everything's got to be considered, not in terms of anything prior to that.
5:17:10That's what I heard.
5:17:12I know we are asking the desk.
5:17:16Okay.
5:17:17We're asking the desk.
5:17:19We're going to have those guys there.
5:17:27John.
5:17:31I had the opportunity to speak as far as I could, but yes, I think the 40-year-old will go well.
5:17:38I had wished that a toe-dance around the problem of wrong harassment, on the basis of mental consideration for the committee, for us it was very, very relevant.
5:17:53It was the last fact that indicated the approval that the team had, because it was finally very gradually indicated his assent.
5:18:05It was like over to the committee.
5:18:06What I'm asking is, what I'm seeing is that it would be very difficult to get a racist, enthusiastic support for this guy.
5:18:12What I'm going to believe is that the problem with that guy is he's got no...
5:18:20No farm knowledge.
5:18:22He's completely a farm statistician.
5:18:23He's a farmer.
5:18:27He's a participant in Washington.
5:18:30And he's a PhD in all the subjects that you take to be a farmer.
5:18:35That's the main part.
5:18:39Well, anyway.
5:18:40This deserves closer scrutiny, but our list is still the same.
5:18:44It's Butts, Johnson, Harlow.
5:18:46I watch that stuff.
5:18:48He's a fallback.
5:18:50He's bland as hell.
5:18:52And you're not going to get any pluses for it.
5:18:55You can build a slot.
5:18:57And Johnson, yeah, and he probably run that department.
5:19:00Although I don't have him on my list.
5:19:02I just don't think he's a viable alternative.
5:19:07I think Johnson's a sniper and will fill the space.
5:19:11Buds?
5:19:11Buds at Johnson Hall.
5:19:13He's coming in.
5:19:13We're getting him in on the pretext today or tomorrow.
5:19:17Yes.
5:19:18What they're doing this week is running a thing to try and get some more input on Johnson, Buds, and the young guys at the department.
5:19:24The young guys at the department?
5:19:26Washington.
5:19:26Yeah, the young guys.
5:19:28Mike said this is not a smart thing to do.
5:19:32I'm going to sit down on the rung and just chat with him about this.
5:19:39And
5:20:37The other thing, if we could get the same thing on track soon enough.
5:20:42You know, we have to do something for heartache or some sort of thing.
5:20:48My thing is that then we can do two.
5:20:51Two at once.
5:20:54Well, eventually it's not great.
5:20:57I don't think much people do this.
5:20:59It's too early, apparently.
5:21:04I don't know why you did that, John.
5:21:09Well, let's talk about Uber.
5:21:13Uber now is with all its Taiwan problems.
5:21:18The other problems are that he would like not to force the issue on us.
5:21:26And particularly with the Princeton business now coming out as it is.
5:21:33And I can see that.
5:21:35You've got to overpress the thing.
5:21:36You've got to let that ride.
5:21:37But I think also, you have to let the Buckley problem subside at some point.
5:21:42You don't want to exacerbate it at some point.
5:21:46And the most good thing in our gaming mix is that even if you were to replace him right now, and take the responsibility for gaining back the hero, we couldn't get the damn thing by November.
5:22:00So we'd be responsible for the mess.
5:22:03So it's better to leave him in all the way through?
5:22:06It's better, at least at his tenure, though, at the last of the election.
5:22:12And then it just becomes a question of what you're going to ask him.
5:22:15And that, as far as I'm concerned, is a question of opportunity.
5:22:19When you get a calm, and when you sort of let this right-wing problem level itself out, that would give us some right-wing struggle, typically.
5:22:30If Hoover were to announce that he was going to retire on January 1st, 1973, or on the qualification of his successor,
5:22:39It's a new president.
5:22:41He's in turn taking a successor between November and January.
5:22:45My point is, you get the word out that the new president is going to appoint a successor.
5:22:53How about...
5:23:02I'm a little concerned about the confirmation that the successor, Coe, has written.
5:23:08Maybe he can do it without me.
5:23:13Battleflights are already flying.
5:23:15I'm not sure he can run the campaign and the department.
5:23:20Maybe he can do both.
5:23:21I guess the confirmation thing is, to me, it's the same problem.
5:23:32Is there any problem believing that you've got with me?
5:23:37Move it.
5:23:37Stay calm, Bill.
5:23:41Yes, sir.
5:23:42We've got to pretend that it was a straw man.
5:23:47But anyway, I have to do what I've got to do.
5:23:50I've got to talk to him about what he may have done with one of these other campaigns.
5:24:19Well, I think Stans, well, am I right that Stans is not an asset?
5:24:23Or is he?
5:24:23Maybe I'm wrong.
5:24:24He's an asset at the margins.
5:24:27At the margins.
5:24:28I will only say that he's totally loyal.
5:24:31He'll say anything.
5:24:32But he's not certain in that job.
5:24:36We could do a whole lot better.
5:24:37What is your candidate, Peterson?
5:24:38I've got two candidates.
5:24:40Peterson and Plankton.
5:24:44You got a problem with planning a conference meeting?
5:24:47Maybe.
5:24:47No, no reason to go for a conference meeting.
5:24:49You have Peterson over there.
5:24:51Oh, I think my name is Peterson.
5:24:52Peterson's down on the end.
5:24:55That's what I have.
5:24:57I think Peterson's a guy who's a waste of commerce.
5:25:00But he would be damn good at the Peterson job.
5:25:02Peterson can be confirmed this year in planning.
5:25:06I think not, but that's just a hunch.
5:25:08Politically, I would argue he'd be better.
5:25:11Out of himself, maybe.
5:25:13They're both good, they're both able, and I like the idea of finances in that situation here.
5:25:20I think that gives him a portfolio that he's needed.
5:25:57I think it was just sort of a flexible lever.
5:26:01Yeah.
5:26:01Yeah.
5:26:02Well, that's no problem.
5:26:05Very awesome, right?
5:26:08We agreed to meet somebody in that Peterson truck, and frankly, that we could put things in.
5:26:17He has no confidence in Peterson now.
5:26:20Does that make you wrong?
5:26:24But on the other hand, even your involvement is in darkness fairness.
5:26:29As reads the conclusion of Peterson's...
5:27:04But he took it out, which I think is small.
5:27:08Down here.
5:27:09Richeson.
5:27:12In terms of, quote, liberal in court, he's the only one I would consider.
5:27:18Now, if something should happen to Berger, you've got to figure it.
5:27:22Remember, I told you to figure out the options.
5:27:23I put this down in the back of your mind.
5:27:26If something should happen.
5:27:29Oh, Rickardson, you know, is the man that we need to take justice for.
5:27:36I think it was evident that he would end up in the Senate of that court, and everybody would be hanging on the left.
5:27:44He was no radical.
5:27:46And here's the guy.
5:27:49He wasn't just first.
5:27:50He was first in Harvard.
5:27:53Oh, oh.
5:27:53How do you like that?
5:27:54I think he was first, or was he second?
5:27:56He was probably first in black and white.
5:28:00But a man who's got such class that every once in a while, he would be one of the, he would maneuver it to become one of the towering chief justices of history.
5:28:12Because... Well, let me say that if we get another big incident before the next year, because my view is that we have a conservative line just about right.
5:28:24I think that we went, and we had an impossible problem of confirmation
5:28:31I hope it's after the election.
5:28:38My career doesn't keep me better.
5:28:44Well, listen, some of us will hang on until after the election.
5:28:52No matter what.
5:28:54Some of us will hang on.
5:29:07He's precisely where we need him right now.
5:29:12Oh, yes.
5:29:12Oh, I would hold it against him.
5:29:14I couldn't believe it.
5:29:16In fact, when I think back on your idea of moving him over there, that was one of the really good ideas you had.
5:29:25That's really good.
5:29:28A lot of changes in the capital have been better than our selection.
5:29:32Except that I must admit that I think Robbie's smart.
5:29:34The damn system doesn't give me any time, you know.
5:29:39I think he's holding his own right now, but I think what, unless we watch very closely, he's going to make a fine metal mistake over there one of these days, because of the way he operates, and that's going to be better.
5:29:57Who's his undersecretary?
5:29:58This guy, McCara, who's...
5:30:50I think we really cannot let him leave.
5:30:54I mean, I just think the confirmation that we all held him, he'd take a lie gas on a repression line, making the Justice Department your political headquarters.
5:31:08Think for a minute about the concept of a leave of absence.
5:31:12I don't know if there is such a thing for a cabinet officer.
5:31:17But it seems to me that there is something in his symbolically removing himself from the department on a temporary basis.
5:31:31I don't either.
5:31:32But I know we're going to just take unsure criticism.
5:31:36And he has all the dossiers, and he has all the, you know, enforcement.
5:31:42Maybe we've got to move him.
5:31:43We've got to pass him.
5:31:45All that is the other possibility.
5:31:47It's packing up raw, man.
5:33:08That would solve another problem.
5:33:10If Clanky just went out and did that.
5:33:13Because as you're a lion now, right, and it caps to Mitchell, you're pretty much forced.
5:33:19If Clanky just went out and did that, you'd have to promise him something.
5:33:25Okay, you could promise him something, but at the same time you could put as damn good a deputy attorney general in there under Mitchell that would sort of steal that off, so that you wouldn't have to put him back in there.
5:33:33Mitchell doesn't think he ought to go up, does he?
5:33:36Well, I gather now, I've never discussed it straight out.
5:33:38Well, you just got to find these reports.
5:33:41He just went like this, but whether that was because you wanted to keep him over there or what, I don't know.
5:33:46That's for sure.
5:33:48But, I don't know.
5:33:50I think we're headed for a real crunch now if I need some confirmation.
5:33:59Jesus Christ, we can't go through that.
5:36:30The third option you haven't even raised, which is someone else that's a very different.
5:36:37Oh, I see.
5:36:39Well, okay.
5:36:41But the implication of that is my niece will resign.
5:36:46Unless the president says, Dick, I want you to settle after the election, in which case he would say...
5:36:55The problem is that all the guys in there, like Marnie and some of the other guys in the woodwork over there, are Clint East people, because Mitchell pretty much turned over the organization of that department to Dick.
5:37:09He just moved Clint East to...
5:37:56Peter, what the hell have you got to buy?
5:38:04You're sure right with me.
5:38:24You feel it will make a lot of sense.
5:38:30You have to take climate change.
5:38:33You have to take climate change, unless you get it, we have to.
5:38:41We should be subject to commerce.
5:38:43More agriculture.
5:38:47Well, you're being a lot of yourself.
5:39:00I like it.
5:40:02And I think it's a perfectly sensible option we're finding.
5:40:08I'll pitch it to the state, to the electioneer, to the campaign, and then you'll leave right after.
5:40:21Rob Spell would leave with the opportunity to get out of it, and then he might give it what he thought was more statute, which means it can't be closed.
5:40:32He won't snap at anything else, and he'll probably leave after the election to go out and run for something, too.
5:40:38Were we thinking to run us over to Congress at one point?
5:40:42No, I hadn't.
5:40:44How about run us over to Congress?
5:40:47Let's start thinking in a different way.
5:40:51It's just a little dumb question.
5:40:53It was over to Congress, and we bring my people over here.
5:41:00You're still getting surrounded, right?
5:41:03Who the hell?
5:41:03The whole purpose of this is to get... Until now.
5:41:05Until now.
5:41:06You've still got to find somebody to get confirmed.
5:41:09Exactly.
5:41:09How about moving out of there?
5:41:50Well, let's see.
5:42:19Randquist's gone, Wilson's gone.
5:42:22Waller's is gone.
5:42:26Pat Gray is who took Rumpelstiltskin's place.
5:42:36I wanted to ask you guys on one thing I thought
5:43:02We better get all the agencies to deal with foreign aid together this morning, so that everybody sings the same tune, and I've asked them to come to the situation room, and I can change it.
5:43:14Just to, I understand pretend that Hannah has spent this weekend working with Chavez on saving the humanitarian aspects, and doing away with the military.
5:43:27She's very lucky to do that.
5:43:30Of course, and that's, of course, totally the opposite.
5:43:34But that's the part Canada administers.
5:43:36And that's the opposite of what we need.
5:43:39And we can do without India and Pakistan aid, but we cannot do without Vietnam and Cambodia.
5:43:44There's a matter of fact, the Israelis, no problem, all they want is to buy the damn plants.
5:43:48But they're not giving them anyway.
5:43:50Sure.
5:43:50The Asia is not all that important.
5:43:54So, our border policy requires a military side.
5:43:58Exactly.
5:43:58One thing that's very important to me is that we've got to read that.
5:44:02We've got to start into a very, very bad position in terms of allowing this whole thing to go to the foreign exchange committee.
5:44:16That is now absolutely clear.
5:44:18Now, what the argument, of course, before was that they had to have, in order to have it true, they had to have the military side
5:44:27in order to carry the other side.
5:44:29Now, it's the other way around.
5:44:31It's the other way around.
5:44:32Although I'm not so sure that the other will go in without the military.
5:44:36That's not so sure either.
5:44:38It's a combination of vaccines on the other end.
5:44:40What we ought to do is to separate out military aid in the future and send it through armed services.
5:44:46I agree.
5:44:47and separate out the other parts and send them to the foreign relationship.
5:44:51That's the way the plan should be for next year.
5:44:54It's another thing.
5:44:55We'll talk to Rogers tomorrow.
5:44:56We've just got to put it on that basis.
5:44:58The two must be considered separate.
5:45:01One will not carry the other.
5:45:02One will not carry the other.
5:45:05And then you fight it out right now.
5:45:21If we took military assistance away from him, he's exploded.
5:45:25He's now...
5:45:25He's irresponsible anyway.
5:45:28All right.
5:45:28What are you going to have your books for?
5:45:3711.30.
5:45:37Good.
5:45:39Now, also, I wanted to get you guys...
5:45:41I've got George Paul working.
5:45:43Getting a group together...
5:45:46Let me leave this up to you.
5:45:48If you consider the findings of operations and so forth, I realize that I think we've got to consider it very fast.
5:45:58The road's got a much better feel for the internal working program, and that's what our options are.
5:46:06Thank you very much.
5:46:09I don't think it's a terrible department, you can't change the rules.
5:46:12But it's already pretty well torn up.
5:46:14True, true, but that's the other point, you know, so you take out the two top men, let me talk to them, let's see what history, that's nice, but we haven't had it all out yet, and you said the two top men, what continuity do you have?
5:46:28Well, they're going to have to replace three guys right now.
5:46:33at the second level, yeah, third level.
5:46:35I don't need money to take a reading out, actually, on this.
5:46:39You haven't heard your thoughts on three things you want to discuss?
5:46:43No, I'm satisfied that you're correct, that we've got to wait until things calm down, right?
5:46:50And I think we should see Buckley's call together.
5:46:54And the news magazines have a big piece on Buckley Brothers today, and the thing's very much stirred up.
5:47:01So it just isn't the time.
5:47:02Buckley is in town, and I thought I'd try to see him today.
5:47:05Sure.
5:47:06But I do think at some point when it's common on that side, that we ought to go for that delay whenever it's possible.
5:47:14You haven't done it.
5:47:15Yeah, I haven't.
5:47:17Everybody thinks well.
5:47:19It's a very sensible approach.
5:47:23Just be sure that you love it.
5:47:27Hold on.
5:47:28I have not discussed it properly, but I have discussed it with Lydia and Crow.
5:47:33That's enough.
5:47:33And they both think that it's very workable.
5:47:36I just don't think there's another way to deal with it.
5:47:43About Bob's point, I think it's a good one.
5:47:45If you bring the right along, it does support you to make sure that whoever is the next president that points the right kind or not...
5:48:25When they know the Bobby Hempsey history over there, they probably have to say that he would be Bobby Hempsey if he ran as Clark, the head of the FBI, and that would be great, wouldn't it?
5:48:34And then you start getting that repression in exactly 180 degrees, and that's where you can make a return call.
5:48:39It incidentally is scary.
5:48:40I don't think our lives would be worth a chance.
5:48:42All right, let's let that set for a while.
5:48:48So you will let me know, yes, sir, further.
5:48:50I will go over this right back to you.
5:48:58Now, the line I was going to take with that bureaucracy, Mr. President, I wanted to get you thinking first is that we ought to go on the attack.
5:49:07We oughtn't to say we will discuss individual items.
5:49:10We will say the line they ought to take is you are trying to build a generation for peace.
5:49:19The foreign aid program that we had was designed to keep the free world strong, to give us the best negotiating positions.
5:49:26and the Senate has irresponsibly knocked it off.
5:49:30I think if we do it any other way, if we say, well, we're willing to restructure it, then these guys are going to come out and say, well, that's what we said all along, and they finally listen to us.
5:49:41I think we ought to get these fellows on the defensive, who are thwarting your foreign policy, when you're going to Peking and Moscow, when Vietnam is coming to a crunch, all of these things...
5:49:57And also they're concentrating the same amendment.
5:50:00They must have had the Cooper Church Amendment in various forms up now three or four times.
5:50:09The second question on which I've wanted some guidance, if you agree, Mr. President, is to find out how much you want me to try getting the establishment turned on on these things, on this thing.
5:50:21I'm afraid they'll have to turn it on on the Janus line.
5:50:24That's my problem.
5:50:27Well, I think I can turn them on by saying that it's total irresponsibility.
5:50:32In ten days you can't redesign the foreign aid program, which is when the present authority runs out.
5:50:40And, uh, Paul, for example, agrees with us.
5:50:47Paul is willing to go now.
5:50:49Okay, we arrest you.
5:50:50Yes, I'm on that case.
5:50:52But, uh, as we well know, you could have sold our lead.
5:50:57The national security of the United States is not going to be affected by any impassioned refugees, or by the programs for Africa, Latin America, and the third world.
5:51:12And that's what these bastards are going to try to show us.
5:51:14We've got to invest our head on that.
5:51:17We've got to have some kind of bureaucracy.
5:51:19Of course, we've got to give them a plan.
5:51:26Well, I think the first plan has to be to push for the continuing resolution.
5:51:30McGregor was doing it this morning.
5:51:34I think we can get, we ought to be able to get May.
5:51:39We talked to him from here.
5:51:54And you may not have to do it at my pleasure.
5:52:02Just bring it down.
5:52:06If you check yet, why don't you go ahead and check now with them on mainline, and see if it's desirable for me to call them to get in, so we get this thing going today, in 120 days.
5:52:19We just have to get over there.
5:52:22I guess that's how it is.
5:52:25No, I can't even tell this group at 11.30.
5:52:26If that's on track, then we've got something specific to have them for.
5:52:29That's just the principle.
5:52:32Exactly.
5:52:32No, that's just the principle.
5:52:35These balls may be in a box here, but they are in one.
5:52:40That's what I think as long as we don't become defensive.
5:52:44Old prices can't be defensive at all.
5:52:47Let's keep stopping, get a few more, and start racking.
5:52:52One of the things we've got to do is rock tomorrow.
5:52:54It's true.
5:52:56We're not going to have any tomorrow morning at 9.30.
5:53:03This is to get him to see the people who are watching.
5:53:06They believe on us too, so we should let him know who's sitting on this room here today.
5:53:10Don't shake.
5:53:12Perfect.
5:53:12Good.
5:53:13I'll just talk to him now.
5:53:17Bill had a stake in the whole deal.
5:53:18Oh yeah, and them two had a stake in front of half the line.
5:53:22Bill had a stake in front of half the line.
5:53:25And Rogers, because we really want him, what I had in mind was that after we finished meeting with Rogers, I want him to go out and tell the press that we were going to go, and this is it, and to attack the opposition.
5:53:38Bill just got to get in there and slug it himself.
5:53:40Absolutely.
5:53:41He's got to slug it.
5:53:42And not make any compromises either.
5:53:44He usually...
5:53:46Absolutely.
5:53:47Well, I don't think this is, if they argue that this will be the reason,
5:54:14No, but it's over.
5:54:16I agree that it brings more difficulties.
5:54:19I think we must rationalize by... You know, the legionnaires are moving along, and we're not sure if they're going to settle or not.
5:54:30No, they've seen us in trouble before.
5:54:33Yeah, sure.
5:54:34And...
5:54:35We have planted words around the world that they're going to be taught to sell.
5:54:39Oh, you'll get that?
5:54:40No, I don't think it will be.
5:54:41We've indicated we're going to make a fight of rogues and make a positive statement that we are going to have a program.
5:54:51I noticed you saying one already.
5:54:53Very well.
5:54:57Actually, the North Vietnamese propaganda is very uncertain right now in the internal instructions they give to their people.
5:55:06He's here for the USIA meeting, and I think I ought to see whether I can quiet him down a little bit.
5:55:16That's what I'd like to find out, because I can...
5:55:30You know, when one sees how the Democrats are behaving, how any conservative could run the risk of this gang getting into power is unbelievable.
5:55:43Here they are.
5:55:54Stuart Alsop had a stinking comment this week on the absence of any moral responsibility on the part of the Democrats.
5:56:02This is on his vote?
5:56:03Well, he did it on the Cooper Church Amendment, and then he just threw in a paragraph, obviously tacked on at the end, about the foreign aid vote, but he said, here are these people asking us to force our allies to surrender by cutting off economic and military aid.
5:56:22He said they can't bear the fact that your policy has succeeded.
5:56:26It's a very tough article.
5:56:30Well, as you go through the news summary, it's quite clear that our friends on the other side are...
5:56:41They say Frank the car, but the people aren't adamant.
5:56:45What's the go-around?
5:56:47Do they know yet?
5:56:48Yeah.
5:56:48Macron's position is adamant.
5:56:50He will go for a continuing resolution only to the time of the Senegal adjournment.
5:56:55He will not go beyond.
5:56:57Jerry Ford and Krav are both agree with him, because they want to put maximum pressure on the Senate.
5:57:02They don't want to let the Senate off the hook by giving them a continuing resolution to March.
5:57:08They will, if in dissenter just before adjournment, they haven't gotten action out of the Senate, they will then go for a continuing resolution carried beyond.
5:57:18And he may not, will not go for the 120 days, because it will take the heat off the Senate and screw those titles.
5:57:26Carl feels, Albert feels very strong on the subject, very strong for the...
5:57:34There's no wavering in his part, and Ford, of course, does too.
5:57:39The other thing they're going to do is, and they have agreed, but not very strongly, is to go for, in the House, to go for a rule to consider the foreign money bill.
5:57:50without waiting for the authorization.
5:57:53And the argument there would be that it would be good psychologically to show prompt house action on the foreign aid money bill as another way of kicking the Senate face out.
5:58:02Now, Maynard has already adopted that strategy on the defense money bill.
5:58:08where he's going to go for a rule to consider that without the authorization.
5:58:11And so they said the same logic applies to Morne, and he's not enthusiastic about that, but he's agreed apparently.
5:58:19That's Albert Porter pushing that.
5:58:22So we've got that strategy basically set in the House.
5:58:26The Court says he meant...
5:58:28My meeting will be very brief.
5:58:30I just want to make sure that all agencies seem to stay in tune and work.
5:58:47If you would ask the country...
5:59:14Oh, no question.
5:59:15No question.
5:59:44At least the ones I've called.
5:59:46Yes, we've gotten in touch with all of them.
5:59:48All right.
5:59:53But those who, whom you called into vote with us, may not be... May all of those who did vote with us.
6:00:06It doesn't make sense.
6:00:08It doesn't make sense.
6:00:10Oh, Kennedy has left the Senate.
6:00:13He wouldn't...
6:00:13He won't do it.
6:00:15He'll do it only until the summit, and that isn't really... Well, we just can't take the career safety department.
6:00:23Oh, I talked to Conley, the senator who went with me the other day, and he was talking to me about a report that was called in one of the United States of America's meeting rooms.
6:00:31Jos was sitting at, you know, Jos had a favorite stage partner.
6:00:34He says, Cole came back, the old Cole, you know, the old conservative.
6:00:38He says, he was really shocked.
6:00:39He says, he says, I thought that I was having a hell of a lot more problems with Jos than there were with the Europeans.
6:00:44There's no question about that.
6:00:46What the hell is he going to do?
6:00:47He's going to set us on a call.
6:00:49He's going to set us on a call.
6:00:50He's going to be with us.
6:00:54Or is he?
6:00:54He'll be like Jos.
6:00:56He won't be like Jos, but there is a professional.
6:00:59Jos is an ideologue.
6:01:02It isn't Setzel they want, it's Stoeckle, the fellow in Warsaw.
6:01:05Setzel would be totally wrong.
6:01:08Stoeckle is a good, grey, unimaginative, he isn't our man, he won't work against us.
6:01:15He isn't like Jost, but if somebody like Tex Thornton would take it, it'd be more reliable.
6:01:23He had a whole list of, you know, texts on time.
6:01:26I know the thing is, it's the question of really learning, knowing the bureaucracy.
6:01:31And it's a goddamn hard thing over there, you know.
6:01:33That's how easy it got for somebody to step into for a year in.
6:01:45I think your idea of going off to find...
6:01:48Somebody who could do it, but who would never pass the Senate or the State Department is Strauss or Pei, because he actually would understand it.
6:01:55He never passed the Senate.
6:01:58He'd never get to the Senate.
6:01:59The State wouldn't let him.
6:02:01No, the State wouldn't let him get there.
6:02:03Well, we're trying to move him into some other post and get him to do that.
6:02:11Oh, really?
6:02:11Yeah.
6:02:12He did a good job in Ceylon.
6:02:14Yeah, we're trying to move him up, because he always promised to Europe the input.
6:02:17Yeah, he does.
6:02:17They won't.
6:02:22The new Japanese ambassador, I see, will probably come back if he misses the recognition.
6:02:29That would be great.
6:02:29Well, there, I definitely would not send a foreign service officer.
6:02:32There, it would be a good job.
6:02:33Yeah, I think so.
6:02:34Yes, we can handle ourselves.
6:02:39This is an immediate problem.
6:02:42I think that you've got to realize, Henry, that it's very easy to fault a greater crowd.
6:02:51I don't fault them.
6:02:52I don't fault them.
6:02:55I think that Joe Bob, they've worked their butts off.
6:02:58They've been very good helpers.
6:02:59They've been very good helpers.
6:03:01Very good helpers.
6:03:03And I say very good helpers.
6:03:04Very good helpers on the top.
6:03:06It's the military and the group of church members.
6:03:08And they were bushed and tired, as I said, outside the football team.
6:03:13They scored three times.
6:03:16They let out and threw their suction.
6:03:19And that's what happened here.
6:03:21Now, everybody said, what happened here is that it's lived by everyone.
6:03:24We didn't know down here.
6:03:26I don't quote them.
6:03:28This was beyond anyone's imagination.
6:03:30The point is now, in terms of the PR side of it,
6:03:37It's inevitable that we're going to take a whack.
6:03:42You know, they're the dictator.
6:03:44They're seizing upon everything to blame this for.
6:03:47It is amazing to see.
6:03:48They take the whole change, for example.
6:03:51You know, they were praising us for a surprise earlier, and now they're saying we shouldn't have surprises for it.
6:03:59But they know goddamn well.
6:04:00To think that they've kept the UN vote going for over a week.
6:04:05When they couldn't keep the Moscow Summit going for two or three days.
6:04:09Two days.
6:04:10Two days.
6:04:12And they were dying.
6:04:20And the news magazines this week don't even mention the Peking trip.
6:04:24It's all U.S. Newsweek literally doesn't even mention it.
6:04:31I don't worry about it.
6:04:33It shows what we're up against.
6:04:35It's not surprising, but they were dying.
6:04:37And when they support us, they do it only out of necessity.
6:04:41And that is one clear lesson one can draw from it.
6:04:44Every time they come around, we think we've changed their minds.
6:04:47That is absolutely not true.
6:04:49We will never change their minds.
6:04:50They're done now.
6:04:51This is what I've learned.
6:04:54When they support us, it is because we are so overwhelmingly ahead of them that they don't dare to make a feat.
6:05:00China was that way, and so was Moscow.
6:05:01But the point is that the reason they let Moscow down is they know they didn't want to build it up again.
6:05:07So there you are.
6:05:08And as far as you're concerned, it was China's experience.
6:05:13It wouldn't be any different if we had these women over and over again.
6:05:18They weren't going to put it in.
6:05:20They weren't going to play it.
6:05:20Did you break off?
6:05:21Yep.
6:05:21They had made their command decision.
6:05:24They thought they'd come, due to the fact that it'll just be television, but it'll be TV.
6:05:31They've got to do it.
6:05:32But they are then, well, not going to try this.
6:05:36In fact, they were hoping at the time, you know, they had all the stories before we announced your trip, that maybe it was good, maybe it was in trouble, and all that.
6:05:45And now at this point, so they blame it on them.
6:05:49That's what they did.
6:05:50And they blamed it for it.
6:05:51They blamed it for it.
6:05:52They got a combination of circumstances because of it.
6:05:57Mr. President, I can't find one senator whose vote could have been affected, but the people who beat us on foreign aid weren't the people who would be affected by your statement, they were the democratic liberals.
6:06:19Men, if you go through the list of those who were against Dole, had voted against foreign aid, I was told, for 13 straight years.
6:06:26Sure.
6:06:27He's considered.
6:06:29If you go...
6:06:29So, if you go through the list of those who voted against... That's right.
6:06:35I've said... We don't need to act like that.
6:06:37We'll fight on that anyway.
6:06:40That's the only...
6:06:42The only...
6:06:43The only answer to an attack is the offensive.
6:06:46Don't do that.
6:06:48Don't get in the background.
6:06:49It's a trap.
6:06:50Right, Bob?
6:06:51Yes.
6:06:52And I'm not concerned about it.
6:06:56I'm not concerned, but you look back.
6:06:57Look, you remember the headlines and the weeks that we took when they...
6:07:02I think we'll get through it now or so, something like that.
6:07:45And they were bushed and tired, as I said, outside the football team.
6:07:50They scored three times.
6:07:53They let out and threw their suction.
6:07:55And that's what happened here.
6:07:58What happened here is that it slipped by everyone.
6:08:01We didn't know down here.
6:08:03I don't quote them.
6:08:04It was beyond anyone's imagination.
6:08:07The point is now, in terms of the PR side of it,
6:08:14It's inevitable that we're going to take a whack.
6:08:18You know, they're the dictator.
6:08:20They're seizing upon everything to blame this for.
6:08:23It is amazing to see.
6:08:25They take the whole change, for example.
6:08:28You know, they were praising us for a surprise earlier, and now they're saying we shouldn't have a surprise for it.
6:08:35But they go goddamn well.
6:08:37To think that they've kept the UN vote going for over a week.
6:08:42When they couldn't keep the Moscow Summit going for two or three days.
6:08:45Two days.
6:08:46Two days.
6:08:48And they were dying.
6:08:56And the news magazines this week don't even mention the Peking trip.
6:09:00It's all U.S. Newsweek literally doesn't even mention it.
6:09:05I don't worry about it.
6:09:09It shows what we're up against.
6:09:11It's not surprising, but they were dying.
6:09:14And when they support us, they do it only out of necessity.
6:09:17And that is one clear lesson one can draw from it.
6:09:20Every time they come around, we think we've changed their minds.
6:09:24That is absolutely not true.
6:09:25We will never change their minds.
6:09:27Sit down now.
6:09:27This is what I've learned.
6:09:30When they support us, it is because we are so overwhelmingly ahead of them, that they don't dare to make a feat.
6:09:36China was that way, and so was Moscow.
6:09:38But the point is that the reason they let Moscow down is that they didn't want to build it up again.
6:09:44So there you are.
6:09:45And as far as you're saying, it was a Chinese experience, and it wouldn't have been different if we had these women over and on.
6:09:54They weren't going to put it in.
6:09:56They weren't going to play it for two or three bucks.
6:09:58They had made their command decision.
6:10:01They thought they'd not do the exact thing.
6:10:04It'll just be television, but it'll be TV.
6:10:07They've got to do it.
6:10:08But they are damn well not going to try this.
6:10:13In fact, they were hoping at the time, you know, they had all the stories before we announced your trip, that maybe it was good, maybe it was trouble and all that.
6:10:22And now at this point, so they blame on them.
6:10:26And they blamed the board, they blamed the board, they had a combination of certain chances because of the...
6:10:33Mr. President, I can't find one senator whose vote could have been affected, but the people who beat us on foreign aid weren't the people who would be affected by your statement, they were the democratic liberals.
6:10:53Thank you.
6:10:55Men, if you go through the list of those who were against Dole, had voted against foreign aid, I was told for 13 straight years.
6:11:02Sure.
6:11:04He's considered.
6:11:05If you go...
6:11:06So if you go through the list of those who voted against... That's right.
6:11:11I've said no, we'll be fine.
6:11:12No, why is that?
6:11:13Could it be... We don't need to act like that.
6:11:15We'll fight on that anyway.
6:11:17That's the only, the only, the only answer to an attack is the offense.
6:11:25Don't get in the background.
6:11:30It's a trap.
6:11:32And I'm not concerned about it.
6:11:34Look, you remember the Kett lines and the weak, bad stuff we took when they passed the maximum amount?
6:11:42They made for cops in June and July.
6:11:43Oh, yeah.
6:11:44It was awful.
6:11:45Massive defeat.
6:11:46Massive defeat for the president.
6:11:48Insanity.
6:11:48Defeat for the president.
6:11:50Remembering him in one vote after vote.
6:11:51They said it was surprising.
6:11:53He never would have had his presence.
6:11:55What I'm getting at is this.
6:11:57This is just one of those things where the establishmentarian types, you know, just love those.
6:12:03What is typical is that when you read this, when you've got guys like this, or Marcus Charles and so forth, you know, what are they saying?
6:12:11Well, this is because of the, this is after the other thing.
6:12:17Of course, they blind us, and I thoroughly expected them to.
6:12:22The only guy that saw the bite of it was Crosby and I.
6:12:25They said, well, this is...
6:12:28This is because of the president's very, what do they call it, his tampered remarks.
6:12:33It's what we're calling it, his tampered remarks.
6:12:36Back in the day, it was a damn tampered.
6:12:39We said we were going to continue to support the United Nations.
6:12:41We were going to continue to support a foreign nation.
6:12:45And it's definitely, no video cabinet done that.
6:12:49You wouldn't even have popped me in the dot after I was there.
6:12:56Nor did you attack the boat.
6:12:57Nor did you attack the behavior.
6:13:03Well, I'm trying to get it clear.
6:13:06We didn't attack the boat.
6:13:07We said we'd sell the boat.
6:13:09We lost it.
6:13:10It's better to push it.
6:13:11What I'm getting at is that
6:13:16You've got to remember that they are attacking on any bolster only can.
6:13:23For example, they're attacking on any of the time they use them.
6:13:27They don't need to believe that.
6:13:30They know that.
6:13:31They think, well, why do we do this?
6:13:33This is a terrible thing.
6:13:34Why don't we consult our allies?
6:13:36They don't need to consult their allies at the time of the attack.
6:13:38Not really.
6:13:39But they got to attack.
6:13:40There really wasn't any other time to take the trip.
6:13:43There was no other time to take the trip.
6:13:45There was no way.
6:13:46Because if we took it now, we'd be in worse trouble after losing the boat.
6:13:52I'm positive.
6:13:53But I'm just telling you that this is a game.
6:13:56And we were to take it.
6:13:59And believe me, you have people saying, oh, this is a terrible blow.
6:14:03It didn't pass.
6:14:03It didn't pass.
6:14:07Oh, I don't think, I think it's a sort of, in three weeks, no one will remember what all this was about.
6:14:11A few weeks.
6:14:14It's, uh...
6:14:16Right.
6:14:18Today is... Yeah.
6:14:20This kind of thing, yeah.
6:14:23I think, well, it will all go away.
6:14:25The thing is significant.
6:14:26I think, yeah.
6:14:27The U.N. will stick around.
6:14:29The U.N. will keep busting this car.
6:14:31It's been opened for a month.
6:14:33It's been moved.
6:14:35Well, that's, and it's not all...
6:14:58You know, they're trying to build this, defeat this sophisticated column, and George Sherman's all excited about it.
6:15:06I've got to get a look at that guy.
6:15:08I don't even know who he is.
6:15:09Do you know him?
6:15:10No.
6:15:11I've never seen him either.
6:15:13I've never laid eyes on the man.
6:15:14I don't know if he's right.
6:15:16He's taken us to us every week.
6:15:18He's only important because he's here.
6:15:23I didn't know he existed until that article two weeks ago.
6:15:26He never called anybody a bug, I know.
6:15:28But even that, I just think this, we don't, just don't let the foul people that we're going to talk to are about, well, we've had a bad week or a good week, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't make a difference.
6:15:46We just have to play it, and it's for sure.
6:15:54Yes, sir.
6:15:54Yes, sir.
6:16:21Well, the only thing I would say is that we express confidence that the responsible members of both parties in the Senate and in Congress will come until the responsible Senate has prevailed, will prevail.
6:16:46I think you've got to give us confidence.
6:16:51You've got to have confidence in the reason that after this is an action.
6:17:04Now they have to be responsible members.
6:17:06This is an essential program for the building of the...
6:17:09Right.
6:17:09I would keep hitting that until... Yeah, and I...
6:17:14This is essential for...
6:17:19Well, the other point is that this aid program is essential for the purpose of carrying out the president's policy of reducing American forces of war, of carrying out the Nixon doctrine, needing others to help themselves, and reducing American forces of war, which it does.
6:17:39Take Cambodia, they feel about Cambodia, they have a hundred Americans in Cambodia who have no cash in them.
6:17:44The warped morality of these people is unbelievable.
6:17:5175,000 North Vietnamese are in Cambodia.
6:17:54No one says a word about that.
6:18:06In the north-south, we had the 75,000.
6:18:08In Cambodia, the communists, do you understand?
6:18:11That's the double standard.
6:18:14That's how the double standard we are.
6:18:16You see it on this here.
6:18:17Everybody sees me drive, his father, his mother, and he's so sorry about it.
6:18:22And there's a hell of a lot more freedom in Spain.
6:18:24You know that, that there isn't.
6:18:25It was wrong, you know.
6:18:26That's a much more attractive country.
6:18:28But Franco Sebastian, he's a communist, so he's a nice father, and he's a bad father.
6:18:32That is it.
6:18:34It's all.
6:18:34We all want his back.
6:18:37I think it came off well over the weekend, don't you think?
6:18:41I think so, yes, sir.
6:18:43We expect that this season, honestly, when all these points are continued to push for continued resolution after the... Yeah, at the end of the resolution.
6:18:58And we don't agree to any compromise, you know.
6:19:01No, we don't agree to any compromise.
6:19:06This is a balanced program, and it will not succeed unless the balance is destroyed.
6:19:12And if the balance is destroyed, you cannot build a knife in one part, but hold the knife in another part.
6:19:27Okay, thank you very much.
6:19:35I think the idea around this is essentially for the purpose of carrying out the President's program, reducing the American forces, helping others to help themselves.
6:19:47This is what our aid program is about, the military assets of it.
6:19:56But I think you've handled it very well so far.
6:20:01Actually, what you have to realize is that this is inevitable.
6:20:10I mean, there's a crowd all the time in his crib, and that had an effect on the U.N., or an effect on the U.N. And now we should have brought our allies about China.
6:20:19We should have, but we couldn't.
6:20:22Well, maybe we shouldn't criticize the conduct of the U.S. government.
6:20:24They didn't have to expect the polls.
6:20:26But the point is, they have to take this on.
6:20:31It's very strong, huh?
6:20:32That's good.
6:20:33It's an issue.
6:20:34Mostly we're against for it.
6:20:37Don't worry about it.
6:20:45You know, I think one of the more stupid suggestions of your secretary, John Sears, is that
6:20:51He says that we really ought to change the press secretaries and get somebody who has more credibility with the press and say...
6:21:00It's good.
6:21:02Great.
6:21:03He never puts a foot wrong.
6:21:04He does exactly what he does, and he stands there, he's cool.
6:21:09And he doesn't build himself at the expense of you.
6:21:11Never, never, never.
6:21:13He is a tough customer.
6:21:15And if you tell him to take us to Lacking, he's out there day after day after day.
6:21:19He's got to get out there.
6:21:22He sticks his chin out.
6:21:25He's out in a really high level development.
6:21:28He would have been defensive.
6:21:32Cambodia laws.
6:21:34Hell, I mean, compared to what we've been through, there's just going to be nothing.
6:21:42It isn't.
6:21:53I can't, don't you agree?
6:21:54This is a zilch.
6:21:55Look, compare this basically.
6:21:58The foreign aid, the UN vote.
6:22:02It's time to run.
6:22:04Jesus Christ, I mean it.
6:22:05And that's going to start dominating it on November 22nd, when you make that other announcement.
6:22:13Now, with our meeting tomorrow with Rogers, I think we ought to get him programmed to go out here if he will.
6:22:22And you might suggest that he gets back earlier than I tell him.
6:22:26He gets back at six o'clock in the morning.
6:22:29And now, if he will, we're not going to question him.
6:22:34Because if he doesn't, if he drives in that car, then he doesn't do it.
6:22:38If he does, yeah.
6:22:40He'll be so defensive.
6:22:43The other thing is, I think that I need you again.
6:22:47We ought to get his head in setting up the Latin American thing, and I think that must be done by Roberts.
6:22:53He's got to do something where he's... Oh, I couldn't hear that.
6:22:57I don't know, but I bet it's...
6:23:02I think...
6:23:04I think Presidio or something like that, that's probably the safest place.
6:23:10For you to go down there?
6:23:12The Medici's coming up, you know, in December.
6:23:14That's what I'm talking about.
6:23:15I'm meeting the heads of government.
6:23:17With the Latins.
6:23:18You know, where we braised them on, before our trips.
6:23:21And sold them their Latin American bread.
6:23:24That's correct.
6:23:26Brazilians, they only claim public safety.
6:23:28I should have them here, in Miami or something, but they would want to come here.
6:23:36Keep working on that.
6:23:37So I'm going to raise that subject for you tomorrow.
6:23:40The other thing is, I thought I would tell you, like, uh,
6:23:45I say now, we're meeting with Larry this afternoon, and I want you to argue something.
6:23:51I say, we haven't told you anything about the true thing that I want, but I haven't told you the reason.
6:23:57I say, do we have just received a note that we have to be back on the 23rd?
6:24:03Correct.
6:24:03They've asked for a meeting on the 23rd.
6:24:06I've also tried to, just a little, I've tried to tell them that Peter would have a private conversation with me.
6:24:12He said,
6:24:15The Russians now are, have spoken to me, that are speaking to me.
6:24:18I'm just going to leave it there.
6:24:23So the Russians, you see, we've got to get him totally off of the way of saying, well, gee, the view of this whole thing, we can only come up with a final announcement.
6:24:34Now, that person, and we've got to, and the way, the only way to get him off the way, he's got to be convinced that there is a chance
6:24:43For some progress, I'm negotiating.
6:24:44And at that chance, it's the 23rd.
6:24:47So you just stand there and look there blind.
6:24:50Well, that's what I was going to suggest you to do.
6:24:52Obviously, it's out there.
6:24:53And I'm going to throw in the two little things.
6:24:57And he told me, and I'm proud of him, he took me aside, spoke to me in English, and said the Russians are going to do what they need.
6:25:06I don't know what it means, but we're going to find out.
6:25:07I really have to bring him swearing, because I told the president, as I told you on the telephone,
6:25:11He said, what sort of a communique are you planning with the Chinese?
6:25:15I said, we have two versions.
6:25:17We are thinking of one as a global one, and the other one as a bilateral one.
6:25:23He said, I bet the Chinese want the global one.
6:25:25I said, I can't tell you who wants what.
6:25:27But if I could write this script myself, I'd make it very restrictive.
6:25:31The only trouble is if the war in Vietnam is still going on, we both have to say something about that.
6:25:36We can't say something about that alone, so we have to bring in everything.
6:25:40So he said, well, I promise you we're going to try to talk to them.
6:25:43Because what they would love is to sort of communicate out of China that we're already gone.
6:25:55And then a very sweeping one out of Moscow.
6:26:07On the Vietnam, our bookkeeping is now straight, because whenever I've seen him, I've shown him
6:26:37A slightly sanitized version of the memo to you, but it looks to him like a copy of a memo to you, so he thinks he knows everything.
6:26:46And it has the essence of it in it.
6:26:48It just sometimes has a few references.
6:26:54So, since July, he's been right up in step with it.
6:26:59Of course, he's always figured it wouldn't work, how he'll behave if he thinks it might work.
6:27:04Isn't so sure.
6:27:06I think my thought is to go forward with an announcement.
6:27:12I think we'll have an experience on how the strategy evolves on this resolution.
6:27:30As low, as little as possible this time, and then shoot everything in the next one.
6:27:34Oh, I understand that.
6:27:35At the end of the day.
6:27:36Oh.
6:27:36At the end of the day.
6:27:38It's tough at the end of the day.
6:27:42You go early.
6:27:44You don't allow the build-up.
6:27:50Go late.
6:27:51They can't do anything anymore.
6:27:52No.
6:27:52What I'm saying is that if you go early, if you don't have these arms filled up, you're never going to find one else.
6:27:58Right.
6:28:00So, there's something that would be awful lot to be said by going before the weekend.
6:28:05This weekend.
6:28:05Right.
6:28:06Not to tell the following.
6:28:09Oh, before the following, that's fine with me.
6:28:11If it's before the following weekend, that's great.
6:28:14That makes no difference.
6:28:1515th is Monday.
6:28:18Well, then I would like to go before the weekend.
6:28:21Why do you need before the weekend?
6:28:24If you make your announcement before that weekend.
6:28:26Yeah.
6:28:28If you cut down on the speculation...
6:28:30Over the 15,000.
6:28:31No, I was thinking of going a week before.
6:28:34I think that has something to be said.
6:28:37Well, it has to be weighed against what these pastors might do in the Senate then, at the end of all.
6:28:44I understand you're trying to preempt their building up to the 15,000.
6:28:55On the other hand, supposing you pass something on the 8th, or you come out with something this week or next week, and then they all start emoting in the Senate with a terrible disappointment, this is, and this proves that the Senate... Well, that's the reason I said it.
6:29:09If there's some chance, that's what we have.
6:29:11I don't know if there's anybody thinking of continuing the resolution.
6:29:15If there's a chance of continuing the resolution, it could get through.
6:29:18It could get through.
6:29:19Before the 15th, I'll wait for the 15th.
6:29:21I think it...
6:29:23I think then there's a chance of getting through this week.
6:29:26Well, if there is a chance of that, then I'll wait until after the continued resolution, but if the continued resolution, I'll be sticking around anyway, then the best thing is to see my clients.
6:29:38That's why I say the strategy of the continued resolution will affect the announcement.
6:29:41And I think we can be flexible.
6:29:43But I agree with you that on the announcement, we just have to say we're leaving.
6:29:47Yes.
6:29:47That is, there has been announced 40,000, and...
6:29:54And then... And then we will have... How are we going to suggest something other than that?
6:29:59So I'll say it to Rogers, then.
6:30:02Jack, or... You can do one of the things.
6:30:03I can say it in December.
6:30:05No, no, I wouldn't say December.
6:30:06I would say before the end of January, you will make a full report to the American people of where we have been and where we are going.
6:30:17That would be one strategy.
6:30:18The other is to say 40,000 for two months.
6:30:22You're increasing the withdrawal rate?
6:30:23I don't think it will report anything.
6:30:25I don't know, it will worry people.
6:30:29And it will, it plays into with what you told Tito, as far as North Vietnam is concerned.
6:30:38It's a deadline on everything.
6:30:39I don't know what they can do to preempt it.
6:30:47I don't quite agree with you.
6:30:50The concern is not that
6:31:18It sounds bad to me, because it sounds like you're recognizing the accuracy of your November announcement, and going for that light at the end of the tunnel kind of stuff.
6:31:33Yeah, but that's what it's going to be.
6:31:35I know, but why say so?
6:31:36Why not just announce it?
6:31:38I guess in this case, I'll just say it, and I'll have another announcement.
6:31:43I don't think the full report is it.
6:31:48I just say we'll have another announcement in January.
6:31:54I think that's what I like to see.
6:31:59Another announcement in January.
6:32:04We're going to do this 40,000 times.
6:32:13They might multiply some 40,000 and see if you can allow them.
6:32:16First thing they'll do is extrapolate.
6:32:17They'll go out to 20,000 a month, and then...
6:32:22Eight months.
6:32:24Nine months.
6:32:25Nine months for everything.
6:32:26Nine months, they won't be able to...
6:32:27They'll take a residual force, or they'll be down by June to the residual force.
6:32:37You'll see.
6:32:38I mean, in the past...
6:32:40What I meant is, that's also, that's a step up in rate, isn't it?
6:32:44That's a 30% step up in rate.
6:32:46Well, the main thing is that 9 months, 9 months of 20,000 is a total withdrawal before the election, correct?
6:32:54That's in effect what that, that's right, before the election.
6:32:57True.
6:32:58Now, as a matter of fact, we are going to have a total withdrawal.
6:33:05Unless we get a agreement.
6:33:07And that's why I saved the draftee announcement until January.
6:33:11No, I agree with you.
6:33:12The draftee announcement, there's no reason to throw it out.
6:33:15Not that it's general rules.
6:33:16Save the draftee announcement.
6:33:17I don't even discuss this with Bill at the time.
6:33:19Nor with Lear.
6:33:20Why me?
6:33:22Why have Ben?
6:33:23Well, why do you get the draftee announcement that I made last night in January?
6:33:29Why?
6:33:29Because you won't need it as much then.
6:33:32No, if in January, if... Oh, if we have the negotiations...
6:33:39Then nothing matters.
6:33:42Then nothing matters.
6:33:43If we don't have the negotiation center, we have a residual board and at the same time no draftee.
6:33:50You've got to have something that leads to say.
6:33:53The extrapolation of the 20,000 a month will be all you need in November.
6:34:00I really think it will.
6:34:01Or it's just the way you plan it.
6:34:04December, January, February, March, April.
6:34:09May.
6:34:10June.
6:34:11July.
6:34:12August.
6:34:13Get everybody out by the end of September.
6:34:16August.
6:34:16August.
6:34:16The end of August is the way it is to be.
6:34:21Count end of September.
6:34:24Nine facts.
6:34:24There's 184,000 left.
6:34:26Well, they're nine months.
6:34:29By the end of August.
6:34:32End of August.
6:34:33End of August.
6:34:33How about just consider one other possibility?
6:34:39October.
6:34:41You know, the Christmas thing always appeals to me just a little bit.
6:34:45Is there any way that we could maybe have a bigger one in December?
6:34:48Oh yeah, that we can do.
6:34:50No, I mean announce it that way.
6:34:52I've announced today that we will have maybe 25,000 in that, and then 15,000 in the next month.
6:34:58Okay, that doesn't make that much sense.
6:35:03I don't think it's really just 20,000.
6:35:07The way we can do it is spend it out of the month and then have defense and put out
6:35:12At least 25,000 of those will be home for Christmas.
6:35:1725,000 will be home for Christmas.
6:35:19Alright, that's the way we'll do it.
6:35:21That kicks in.
6:35:22That one's alright.
6:35:23It's 25,000 home for Christmas.
6:35:2825,000 to 40,000 will be home for Christmas.
6:35:41I'm so sorry.
6:35:42Go ahead.
6:35:45We couldn't make it as part of the formal announcement.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Foreign Aid and 1972 Presidential Campaign

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 1, 1971

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