Conversation 609-017

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I was wrong about Bill.

He has to get back to his mom.

But he told me he was going to stay through Monday, and I said fine.

I was like, what the hell did he go for?

That's what he told me the first time.

I said, no, he was just going to go down and come back.

I said, I don't have to come back.

He said, obviously, I was going to stay.

I said, sure.

If we get back tomorrow, it's going to be all the same shit.

It's going to be all the same shit.

Did you get a date on it?

Her past couldn't be announced today.

Did you follow up on that or not?

Yeah, I think it's today.

If they put it out, they should get it done today.

Or tomorrow, but...

What's this, my man?

I just put it out there.

It's a big story.

But they've got to tell the...

They've got to tell the ambassador.

You know, yeah, just call it.

Have the... What is it?

I don't know, man.

The Warren State Department.

The Washington State Department.

They know, they know.

I'm sure the ambassador knows that we're going to announce it today, you see.

On Reagan, he will come any time you want him to.

He had said that the best time for him to come would be on the 16th or the 19th.

We have not raised the question of the dinner, now we can go back to it.

But the senator just suggested that you like to have him come to the Gandhi dinner, maybe it will work out for him.

He could come in for that this weekend.

Why don't we offer that?

I think it would just be well enough.

The other things are, if it's not that one, then I think the...

Yeah.

I think that would be a good question.

Does Henry leave on the 19th?

No, he doesn't leave until the 20th.

He has to be here.

I'll take it back a couple of times.

All right.

But I think the 19th is better than the... Yeah.

I think it's better than the 16th.

really almost automatic, because there isn't any real option, which is to go now, because there's nothing you can get done between now and 15.

To go for a continuing resolution and go for 120 days instead of 90 days.

Then, now, one problem there is Mekong is apparently talking about 30 days.

But, and then, to hit the compass pretty hard,

I think the important thing really about the substantive initiative would be to do that and then go for submitting our own program.

Again, whether it's the old one or a revision of the April reform program.

But whatever it is, we go for that submitted first thing when the new Congress comes back under heavy pressure and go for trying to get it passed before they can take a selection on it.

I've got a lot of things behind us.

Well, you don't have to go around with one of these erosion factors on this, which was all in amendments.

Well, there were churches.

Yeah, people can't vote.

But that would be the substantive strategy, the PR strategy,

which, or political strategy, which may be more important at this point, is that the feeling is that we should go on a strong attack on the point now that the president has launched all these initiatives in the effort for world peace, the development of a broad-based foreign policy and so forth, and that Congress, for capricious partisan reasons and all this kind of crap, has undercut it.

Basically, and then make the point that nobody likes foreign aid, or a lot of people don't like foreign aid, but the point is that right now, like it or not, it's an essential underpinning for getting done what needs to be done.

Right.

And that it's time for Congress to return to sanity, to quit their mission making, and get down to taking some responsibility and getting this passed.

And then it's all of this.

Now, this is pretty hard.

Yeah.

Well, they're sensitive to that point, too.

That's why they're here today.

The timing of his trip, he's concerned about wandering down to Latin America.

Well, our haste to them has kind of been cut off.

He can make the point that we're fighting for it, but when you get across the border here, the U.S. government sees the U.S. government.

They don't see the difference between the president and Congress.

Henry thinks he ought to go ahead, and I think Bob's a little shaky about what he should do.

Well, I'll tell you to wait a week or so and see what we get out of it.

You're not going to get it.

We'll just have a vote.

We'll give it a little while.

If anybody's interested.

Nobody thinks you can get it in a week.

Yeah, they think you might be able to get it immediately.

They think, like they're saying in Charter Bay, Greger, and Timmons, and that's what I think.

You're under the approach of the government.

A lot of congressional type people have a feeling that there's a question in there now, and Colson has assumed too, that they realize they sort of wet their beds here, and that if you had our bill back intact and on the floor today, you might get it passed.

What?

And had the full sentence present?

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Because we lost a big chunk on absentees.

Yeah, absentees are us ones.

Yeah, but even...

It didn't change the result, it didn't change for us.

Yeah, well, but we had the back.

At least it happened to us.

We had the whole sentence, and people like that, and we had called and asked for English, and we knew we were going to lose it.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm honored in retrospect, I think, that we just can't put any questions down.

They wanted to have another incident.

What was that again?

What happened is that both of the boys had been fighting all week and just were tired.

It's like football.

They let out and intercepted the pass.

But I'm still on hand with this.

These are brothers.

negative one and greater all the time.

I said, god damn it, we won every vote.

And what do you think we're doing out there?

We're fighting all the time.

And that's not fair.

It's not fair.

You can't just name the group, sir.

I mean, Enriched People dropped the ball.

They dropped the ball.

AID sure as hell dropped the ball.

Where were the agencies?

Well, they got more people than we have.

And where were Enriched People?

I mean, the whole point is, it was a thing where the European analogy is absolutely right.

The whole team kind of

We were really fast for a minute before the border, and all of a sudden, at a haste, I realized that we're in a period, Bob, and it's not only in here that everything can happen over there.

Everything must be made to be the same way.

There'll be silly events.

They'll try to hang on and do this or that or the other thing.

They'll fail to pass an appropriation to big government employees or anything, you know.

But if they can get away with it, so after just a time, I don't think they're ever going to look at history.

But don't, but believe me, I'm not putting your life on the line.

Oh, and he worked for it, too.

He should have had his phone.

They thought they had a Saturday one.

He was gone.

He thought he had a Saturday book.

But he was gone.

He was gone.

Apparently it wasn't Saturday.

Now what do they want to do?

What is our schedule this week in terms of meetings?

Do we have a lecture this week?

Ford, a mighty partner, has asked,

I heard that they have, just the two of them, have a meeting with you just on a legislative program review.

And Clark says that's the only important legislative leaders meeting.

You don't need a leaders meeting with the group this week.

There's a question whether Scott and Griffin ought to be included.

He's checking that out.

But what they'd like to do is do that tomorrow afternoon, rather than tomorrow morning.

So today, no, they're currently out.

The problem is, tomorrow is election day, and they're going to be out of it.

They're going to be back in the afternoon.

They're going to be out of it tomorrow.

The idea was to do this at 5.30.

Now, my thought on a part of the... Well, that's...

What about on the PR side?

I had one thing I had down, and that's to get Rogers in there.

Then I had to go out and talk to the White House first about what we were going to do.

But that's on now.

We'll do that tomorrow.

We'll have Rogers come in.

It's true.

It's better to have Rogers do it than anybody else.

I guess there's nobody... Yeah, it would be good if he isn't affected at all.

I don't know.

Now it gets to 9.30 a.m. Oh, okay.

Better idea after that.

All right, fine.

All right, that's enough to do.

There's that, sis.

We need to do this as well.

Later.

This is something we have up this week.

and all that sort of thing.

The Reagan coming in is not quite the right thing.

Okay.

Just let it go and say, fine, either he or they is all right.

It might be just a little bit important.

I would think maybe before the governor's time, that's it, but it doesn't... You're not thinking of doing anything on the 15th announcement?

I don't think so.

Okay, make it 60.

Said that'd be a little bit better, didn't it?

Okay.

Basically, they didn't want to talk to the mayor.

They didn't care.

Hence, we've got to expect a certain thing.

Therefore, we really want to avoid it as much as possible.

expect a serious political attack on our own people who've got to do that.

You've got to say Colson did a good job lining up his little toys with Bush and the Kennedy thing.

But you've got to say, we've never done that before.

Goddamn, we just didn't.

We've been doing it for two years and never had any of that sort of going.

You know, except when I thank you.

Right across the board from the China account.

Did you take their heads up?

He's ready to hit them.

It's a very good job.

I guess Bush really did a good job.

He ought to keep that in mind.

Absolutely.

It's hard.

He's got to not be partisan.

There's a way to handle it.

He doesn't have to be totally...

The thing is, you've got to say this for him.

Rogers could really be tougher than he is.

He just would.

But he's...

Don't choose me, you know.

Get my good chick in the ass and they, well, if Bush starts getting tough and getting some credit for it, it'll get around you so it'll suffer a kid.

Well, he likes it, of course.

He's just considered to be a heavyweight by then because of that certain

You know, this contrast has become, it's a nice guy, you know, he's basically, I think they read the column, and he gets much favor, you know, he's apparently, he's too tough, and I'm so professional, et cetera, et cetera, but he's there, he is a factor, and they know he's a factor, and when he's a factor, he has to be contended with, and in Bill's case, he's solid, you know, he's always brave, he's a nice fellow, very courteous, and all that sort of thing, but he gets considered, he gets considered in this position, who the hell is he?

That's the point.

This is the second push.

Push it to the point.

Now.

Just give it.

Play the rigging line a little.

It comes to come in.

Let's give it this balance.

This is going to be a small curve.

We've got a line.

Now we're going to get it forward.

This is the second push.

Do you want anybody down there?

No, I don't.

There's no need to.

No, I've got to work.

So Rush is not going to be in at 6 o'clock tonight.

Should we try to get him to come in earlier?

So you get an afternoon shot at him?

It's only 9.30.

He could be here by then.

1 o'clock.

What do we want?

I don't either.

I kind of think it's just as well.

As long as Daddy's good anyhow.

Let this baby screw her out.

I don't think he did.

I don't know what the hell he could go out and say today.

He goes out and they question him, what are you going to do?

What is your reaction to this or that?

He may not know.

Yeah, we need to do a little more dirty dirty.

No, I think we best better let her go.

Right, let her go.

Okay.

Well, I decline to think that on this side,

We got the church this time.

We have the 14th.

Okay.

In the 15th group announcement, you're just going to release something, is that right?

You're not going to make a statement and go on TV or anything?

It's an oppressive plan.

Right.

With Rogers, I would have him in tomorrow.

What time is my plan?

11.

10. 5.

Well, you're not going to have a rifle, sir.

No, no.

Oh, that's right.

The man has an officer that does an honor guard for him, but no, you don't go outside.

930 for Rogers.

We don't need a car, because we've got to go to the office.

Okay, I think Rogers should go out and get depressed tomorrow.

Okay, uh, the uh...

Over to Kevin.

Yeah, I have.

Connolly, I told you to return on the 11th.

Now they're saying it may be the 14th, so I'm not sure on that one.

Yes, I don't believe it.

That we must figure him for anything that we can.

We can put a load for sure.

We can put quite a bit of wood into these people this morning.

Well, that's a part of it.

That's the general feeling.

You can't go every way, I mean, you know.

Of getting out and, you know, of going to that level.

You see, they don't want you to do it.

This is one.

Oh, I want to sit on it.

I want to talk to you.

I'm concerned you're going to feel it.

This camera.

This is a good camera.

I'll accept it.

I just can't think of a better camera.

Or a third one.

Or stuff like, for a full lead.

Or even a Jedi.

I could have a Jedi for that transportation thing.

I just don't want to sit there with them and have them banging about.

I don't want to have them there either.

I just think it's better... Well...

I think he could be there.

Let him be there at her side as a political man.

I think it would be good to have that meeting first.

Wow.

Well, I don't think it's fair to put a comment into that position where he's directly a partisan commentator.

Yeah.

We don't have a name separate.

You see my point?

Yeah.

I think, for example, you ought to have a comment for one of the raw, raw seconds.

Yeah.

After he gets back.

Well, it was kind of funny, those two, but I don't get why I didn't get into the basic political nut-cutting question without the... without the... Now, I think you ought to have that certain...

I think next year the vice president should preside and have it here.

Have it here in Canterham.

Now, it really is a good idea if I leave it Monday because it's tied up or not here.

Well, Friday might be a good time.

The point is, you know, I'll be here, I'll be here, but I'll be here when the mess is gone.

So you can have it here in Canterham.

Or her, the advisor's company, and I'll show it over to the other place.

You see what I mean?

That's exactly what I mean.

Yeah, I know, but I can't get my ears to hear it.

Well, you let me talk about it.

I do not want to live in the tent.

I just don't want to get into the tent.

No, and all these people in the building will come up with stuff that I don't want to stay out of.

See, I just want to stay out of it.

Isn't that better?

Or nobody be content to do that.

If they sit around, if they're not convinced, well, we can get them out of this town.

Often there's a command for one.

And they'd want to include this political fellow from the department, too.

And the tie to this one is that that is exactly the year before the election.

So that's the weekend before, you know, the year before the election.

So we launched the election.

And why don't you say without saying that I'm not going to be there?

That's right.

I wouldn't say you are going to be there.

I just invite you to be a part of that meeting, and I'll come in and hold it, and say, I'm going to go meet you.

And that's what it will be.

See what I mean?

Now, you don't see her till 11.

I've got to go prepare for it.

Yeah, yeah.

Have a meeting at 10 o'clock.

Something like that.

Or 8.30.

Right.

Well, what I meant that is that I, I, I give a statement.

I gave a statement.

It's political.

I'm the vice president.

I do not want to participate in it.

I'm the interstate.

I'm the vice president.

I take all the political crap out of my way.

Now, one thing, which, uh,

I think we ought to tell them to be a fairly long meeting.

Yes, two hours, we're going to stay there.

I think it's two hours, yeah.

It just has to be.

Well, but you have to, this is only a political agenda, this is, but get her, and let me know if you can.

Unless you want to, it walks at the beginning, it walks through that transportation stop, and go out of the way.

What?

It looks like he's always trying to have a meeting.

Let's let him give us a reason to crap around on something else later that I'm trying to fix today.

Okay.

I think that then, the next meeting in the cabin after that, there should be a convoy there, and then a convoy get a report, and then get that transport press in there, you see.

Fair enough.

And, uh...

I got a little bit of that.

But the problem, at least, that's a part of the order, because that'd be running a little bit.

It comes off that malice memory.

Yeah, I know.

Won't take long.

I tell you, the political meetings is part of the same thing.

Well, no, it isn't really.

No, it's not.

I think the political meetings should be pretty much on that subject, yeah.

An hour and a half to two hours, isn't it?

Yeah.

And then you pick up those little... See, the transport thing also doesn't need to be long, because all the undersecretaries are meeting on that.

Well, then you have the problems of the... Well, they do have a call on the 15th, you know, that's to make it on the...

I don't want to tie in the middle of the leaf, because I haven't retained that, in case I want to go in there and press it at that point.

That would be when I would do it.

Let's see what else is coming up there.

We've figured possible pressing on the 18th.

Yeah.

We're putting right on the 16th now.

Yeah, that's right, right on the 16th.

17 quid.

But we'll also keep the 11 as possible because we'll save the money.

I may want to do one or the other in the past.

I may want to do it on some other farm.

4, 12, 6, 11.

We want to do it on 200 pounds.

That's what we need to do.

20, 30, 40.

What's the date of the Chinese?

23rd.

What time is it?

4.

Okay, we haven't had that confirmed yet.

Okay, thank you.

Right.

Thank you.

It's not a very probable forethought.

Hi, John.

Hi.

If you well know, most of these people are... Let me say it first.

The weakness of the account that it is, is the failure to have, is the failure to have Bolson on there.

You've got to have somebody lucky on that account.

You know what I mean?

You'll have Dole in there.

You'll have Dominic, does he come in?

No.

Not Dominic.

Well, you have Dole.

You don't have Dominic?

No.

I would, could you not talk like the Senate?

I was going to say I explained the desired relationship between the Department of the White House and the Republican Committee at the time, and then the campaign committees.

Oh, I see.

Let me say that this meeting is to be held.

I really want it organized so that it's down to, so that you decide in advance what you want the cabinet officers to take out of it.

See, what you want them to be thinking about, what they can do, how they can help, you know, and how they can help in their departments and so forth and so on.

I like the idea of doing it in your absence.

I think it might be a very...

If you do have any answers, you can say that.

I've asked you to discuss this one.

One is the weak question, the other is the political question.

So that they know you know what's being done.

I'll try to solve it.

He's a conservative, but he's also a very bad jerk, and he's a jerk.

After reading the file, it just isn't any question.

His judgments are a lot more important.

Bill doesn't want to go to trial.

I don't know that he doesn't want to do it, but I know that he has laid a foundation for resisting this by the things that he said in his press conference.

So, anyway, the people that lead with it, the State Department is clean and so on and so forth.

We're the leaders.

at the moment of crisis.

That was a long time.

Nobody knew what happened.

Well, this was a piece that was right at the pipe.

It continues to make you think what we can do without saying.

The State Department is just saying we have moved in one piece, and we are prepared to move in others, and doctors and pedagogues are responsible for their systems.

and just lay out this sort of pyramid for us, so that we can expect that this is going to happen, and so forth and so on.

I wouldn't want to have a whole land gate that was in rent, and in Paris, and all that sort of thing.

You see, it's, you know, what you've got to, we've all got to know that we expect to be goddamned competent.

It ties in to this concept that we're moving to the political system.

Every year before the election, everything that we do now, everything that we do, there's just going to be a political issue.

There's nothing good that we can do with it.

Everyone else would be that way.

HR1 is screwed.

Revenue insurance is screwed.

Why?

For example, we're barking around with the tax bill.

Why?

Right?

Everything is political.

Now, I had this thought.

And this exercise, this is probably a time to do this.

All these people can do it.

This year, of course, we will have a board policy report.

It's a very sensitive panel.

which in which they will have an opportunity to speak of their issues and so on.

Now, give me a second.

One of the areas where we have really been taking a bad ride is the many, not only positive initiatives, but positive accomplishments of this administration and the domestic community.

And that we know that around this table there's area after area after area where we've done things

They're also various.

And that's where we say, here's what we have accomplished.

And then, second, here is what we can propose.

In other words, what I'm going to add is, and I would like to add, I think that in terms of their getting a good speech ready for themselves, getting a good speech ready for good speech material for people all over the country, that they should prepare by...

Not on a mass basis, but on a tightly greased, hard-hitting, one, two, three, simple basis.

They can have a lot of back of the church.

A paper is to, what's the department?

If the department of agriculture does anything good for Christ's sake, let's find out why.

You know what I mean?

So they'll say, yes, but not really.

But no, it's all right.

It's the point.

They've got, you know, all the positive things that have happened.

Maybe what I'm saying is, if you remember last year, it was sort of aborted, but it came off fairly well.

It got fairly good for us, you remember?

The time that these must be available must be in the period before, and well before that period.

So they get it right after Christmas, the fourth version of the year.

It's a dead spot in the news.

Every one of these guys should have a report.

They should be well-programmed, like they did last year, but for the three years, too.

Not just for the year.

I was at a three-year report for the Kansas people, and they take personal charge of this, and their stewardship, and all that sort of thing.

What do you think?

Is it a good idea?

Yes, sir.

I may want to think of it.

Maybe we'll learn some things.

It'll be the way.

Yeah.

We've got to keep it a separate day.

Maybe we have to spread it over longer.

Well, we think it's a good idea.

Because of a lot of things that happened, it took us about two weeks to get all of it on the last time.

I guess that's okay.

We'll work it out.

So that's it.

Ten fine ways for ten of the facts to these reports this time, maybe we can get them on the television, on specials, on issues and answers, etc., etc., rather than just trying to write it on the newspapers this time.

We have a client, we have a scholar, at least we turn it, and they are going to use the terms as well, and put it on the papers at the end of the day.

Thank you.

I think this gives a positive, because when you really come down, as far as these guys, they're not going to contribute to the politics.

They're really not.

They'll make a speech.

I mean, when you come down, they're not speaking.

What can they really do?

You're really getting down to the top politics.

They're really not.

It never hurts.

Except Mitchell, who, of course, is not a speaker.

I don't know.

Maybe, I'm bold to say, we can't go over to Massachusetts most of the time, so.

Yeah, but only, we just, we, all you do is go talk to the sons of Edwin.

Yeah.

Other ethnic type groups.

That's right.

What I'm getting at is we have to be quite, quite candid in knowing that as far as this has to be concerned, they're only going to be worth a damn in terms of

of a, let's face it, frame of each of them is not a building you saw.

They're just not going to be worthy to have.

Well, the whole point of this meeting, one of the things, is to try and push them into a way of thinking, as a group, so that they will individually have taken, some of them taking the attack, which they can start.

And Elliot did it.

George Bush did it.

He's not, of course, he was in the cabinet.

Okay, but we can make that point.

We can get George Bush, or if the high and mighty post-demand nations can do it, then George Romney sure as hell can for the rest.

Well, the guy's a kid, the people lived him.

He paid a lot.

You can't pinch a rock star on that deal.

Believe me.

You come right down to it.

I was saying about one of the problems with the cabinet times, let me relax.

I was comparing Rodgers, the way he gets across, the way the economy's gotten across.

And Rodgers, if you were to ask the press, which they like the better, Rodgers would be 10 to 1.

over perhaps Connolly or any other under the table.

But if you ask, who is the big man?

It's Connolly, number one.

Now, in other words, this whole business of going out, being clever, and so forth, although Bill is a good time, but his whole thrust is that he judges every press congressman.

What did they like me?

Get my point?

And,

I don't think that's a judgment in terms of did they like me.

The question is how did they cover me?

Did I get my point across?

Do they know what I mean?

Now, those people, if you ask them, they will gradually say, well, it was a net for the performance, but they hate his cuts.

Am I correct?

I'm sure you are.

They have the same reaction.

His cuts, they have mine.

They don't like them.

We're the net.

George Bush on his prop show yesterday,

He just threw his ambassadorial man over the wind and got right in and made his point.

And what's the fact?

He made himself a better ambassador.

That's damn right.

You get a good example of the kind of things you can do.

I'm sure you hear stories about that.

And here's Charlie O's bank.

No wonder we didn't get it out of the U.N. when we went up there.

We got bad, cold, cool receptions the whole time.

Gloria didn't know why.

I didn't know why.

It was the goddamn people that we had up there.

The whole delegation's against us.

I don't mean our people.

We're the point.

We're just the center of the temple.

People like to do that, but I didn't do it, so they did it.

I see my point.

The party has been out there for a while.

That permanent party, there's a bunch of them that went masters.

It's the Pedersen types.

And they're all obsessed with solving them all, you know, the boolean of the search.

They're part of that, worse than that.

They're part of, I don't know, not just the foresters, and they're the foresters who do that.

And I'm totally amazed at the kind of mission.

It's just unbelievable.

Well, I don't know.

What I had to do,

I think you're going to get more success out of John each time that I push him on the positive side.

You can't tell a bench or a rock star to attack.

They aren't going to do it.

But you can.

Maybe I'll let you know.

Okay.

What trust do you think this political piece of the government should give these two dogs?

That's why they take this kind of time.

So it gets down to the whole thing, talking about why don't we have more intelligence in the Supreme Court?

Forget it.

Or Robby said, why don't we do more for Household?

Forget it.

That's what it's all about.

See what I mean?

I can see this as a total waste of time for them.

Except for the fact they love to talk about it.

Have you had any thoughts, sister?

What do you think?

What are the issues here?

But I should, no, you should, I should be given, they should be given this block in your name.

And they should be encouraged, by Elliot's example, to go out and pick a target and wham!

And I think now, if you were to ask Hodgson, or you were to ask Harden, or some of these guys, if they should do that or not, they'd say, gee, I'd never do that without clearing up with the White House.

And it is said that just right under the hall, when they take somebody off and somebody squeals, we're going to be worried about, listen, if there's anybody in this whole administration that's taking somebody off, any member of our staff who gets a bad press that is backed up 1,000%, the only ones I wish about are the ones that don't do a goddamn thing, or the ones that are stuck around in the press.

Some of them are not inclined to do it by nature, but I think there's a certain...

You have constructed the rest.

That's right.

I think under the point of saying, you know, we've done three years of building and directory, now we've got one year to set aside.

That's right.

And that we've got to also make an appointment.

Make an appointment.

So the rest will be extremely helpful.

Because he's got so much thinking about this.

And then they appoint that.

We're not a political system.

Everything that we do is good.

You just don't know how bad it's going to be.

You're going to have a bigger department just loyally in the league, so let's take care of that.

You're going to have a situation where the press and everything we've done is going to be forgotten.

They always say, they say, this here, this administration, more reforms, more nations, and I mean, they say, we have our hand, right?

No leadership before, and that's correct.

They say that we haven't, that we aren't pushing our, our, uh,

They're doing that on this one, this morning.

First of all, he didn't care.

That's his point.

He didn't do anything to get it.

And his point is, you lost it because you overloved it.

That's right.

Because we set you on your own things.

We told him something we weren't happy with.

What did you do?

You played a hard one.

But, just think, in all these people's, for these poor folks, and the rest of us, here they are, stumbling out there, and they're Cadillacs and all the rest of them.

But, you know, really, they've got big offices and all that sort of thing, but they know they don't amount to a goddamn.

Now, they can amount to something.

They really can, if they get in and fight.

That's the point they have to realize now.

But they're going to take some heat if they fight.

And they've got to be big boys.

Correct?

Yeah, we have some examples.

Just so, just so.

I said, of course we understand that in defense and in state there are special problems.

On the other hand, I would then go on and pray his question.

See my point?

I pray his question.

One of the effective things is what he did.

He did it without being partisan.

But he talked specifically about that.

He accused the others of partisanship.

And we got to it.

The message made very suddenly across the road, which I cannot keep my mind on.

But his tendency, even though he was an attorney general, Jesus Christ, he never did this.

You know, I always say this, he never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never,

No, I've heard of a cop, too, to do the act.

Act presides.

But that act, that set aside, the attorney general is, uh, is just going to, uh, go to his, his, his, his responsibilities here.

Which is three of that job, to find her, and that act, but, but her idea of an act of unattention.

And that, but that act presides, you see.

And, uh,

Sound good?

That's all right?

How's the idea?

I think it's very much a job.

It's good for all the people that are participating and everything.

I think that we have a great record on the domestic side.

We've got a house to go out and prove that we have it.

Also, we've got to defend ourselves.

And the way to defend ourselves is to attack the other side.

We've got to get it.

Did you read this attachment for that memo that...

They signed for John Mitchell, but I think Jeff Bruder wrote it.

It is the format for this meeting.

So they've given him a lot of thought.

We ought to get a sample format in and go over it ourselves.

Well, here's my story.

Oh, I didn't know him so much then.

I would cut that down awful long.

Thank you.

Well, I will let me, it's a good idea to let me knock it down, but I just have a feeling that they just want to go on and on and on.

Well, there's no need for them to have all the details.

They're in the need for them to know that they're all structured and, you know, how it's set up and all that.

You raised a close question.

You've got a real problem here, as you know.

We haven't got a lot of mental...

Well, they don't have to come.

Well, he's got to be there, but he shouldn't have a legal mask.

He's got to wear it.

But it's a different way.

And who's going to cheer him up?

Who's going to be positive?

Well, I think we can train positiveness throughout this and catch.

Go for it.

That's the way it's done.

I've got to try and get gold.

How about scallion?

Can we slice the scallion in this?

It might be.

You guys don't understand what you've done yet.

And then, also, look, there are an infinite number of ways for you to present this stuff.

We're going to work with your PIOs, and with my imagination, vitality, and version.

What are you going to look like?

I don't know if it's true.

Well, that's partly what I had in mind, because we would use Scali as kind of a consultant.

Right.

That's a novel idea.

Well, you've got to have heard of it, but we've never heard of it.

I've had to do this every once in a while.

It's always a good job to follow it.

He just does not, well, it is not inspiring, that's my point.

It's just not.

He can say, oh, the president's asked his consultant, now, to talk to you.

And then he comes in, he's on the outside, he's seen it from the other side.

He can give you an idea as to where they know we're going.

Let's go, he's got a postmark.

So that's a good idea.

And then he's got a little tag, and so forth and so on.

How's that?

That's a good idea.

Maybe quietly.

I think maybe he could be out of town on this one, really, because there's no way that he could sense himself, and he will not have a minute to have it.

So we'll take him there.

So we get him to the door, and we get him to the bar, and he'll meet with the P.I.O.

ahead of time, and we can do it, I think.

What date is it?

It's going to be the 5th, right.

Why doesn't it work like the PIO does anymore?

He works pretty much alone.

Yeah.

Rumsfeld can speak enthusiastically.

He's one of the few.

Rumsfeld?

He can at least speak enthusiastically.

Oh, we have a program out here.

Yeah.

The program is this.

We're smart.

He won't attack.

Of course, Martin will.

Martin will talk for himself.

He hasn't taken anybody off.

So that schools the segregation money, and hires a case, and complicates the legislative maneuver, and he's off the middle between us and the Congress, but he's right there.

He will learn.

That's the way to get ahead in the world, too.

Well, then, downstream, we'll do this transpose 72

Yes, sir.

They could say some things even sooner than that

Like what's said this morning, just look up and don't say anything.

Don't program us to answer questions.

Keep it loose.

We've made a mistake in trying to get some speakers out explaining what phase 2 is, because we don't know what phase 2 is, and that it's wrong to have a guy out trying to say what it is, because no, it's better not to say anything.

And they tried to... Pete Pierce made the point that he just, he just said, I'm international economic policy, and I don't know if he's avoiding me.

Yeah, we can press that at this point.

I don't want to say that they said things.

I think these guys should stand and go around and say one thing, and Ron is saying another, and if Rumsfeld could just get up, he's going to hit them across the living council.

Well, let me ask this.

Well, let me ask, why don't you tell Rumsfeld that you're going to meet for a meeting all night?

Yeah, well, why don't you put up, shall we say, tell Rumsfeld that you're going to meet?

They had a meeting right away on that.

They do regularly.

They still go out and cover for history.

They still go out, you know, once or any day on a space topic.

No, I don't think you need to do anything on that.

Actually, you know, we handle it on an individual basis anyway.

Just like this reorganization thing that I mentioned to you, we're going to have to have Volpe and Romney, of course Harden's gone, but we can have Campbell in, and let Carlucci, which has been in your presence on this, on supporting your reorganization thing.

What does that mean, Volpe with his paraplegic?

Oh no, he has an airplane as long as he has a coaster.

And if he doesn't have it there, he'll have one in the FAA.

He'll have an airplane regardless of what happens.

But those things can be handled either in smaller groups or I'm glad if you want to do something.

I don't really know what I'm talking about.

It seems to me that that's what Rumsfeld and Schultz had all thought he needed to do, because they were whacking away at him on a regular basis.

And it's really time to stand and say, here's why they get on him.

Here's the best thing you really need to do.

Why do you think Sanchez got him out?

It's not possible.

He accepts speaking days, and then he goes out, and when you stand up, you have to say something.

And he has to look, you know, they ask me questions, and he has to, he can't say, I don't know.

So he says something else, and it creates a future.

It's tough.

Nature, of course, back you.

Well, it's tough.

I understand.

Please, you're crazy.

Of course, I'm going to drop it there.

You've got to say something once you do it.

I think the idea of getting a program now for the other system leaders is just right.

It's a good thing, and it's really, it will serve our purposes too.

But they've got to think, that's on the policy side.

Somebody calls them like scouts, and they hit somebody.

You've got to say something to make an impression.

You just use the lines.

Be popular with the press.

Doesn't mean it should affect him.

You know what he should do?

He should stay down.

He should stay calm.

You said it exactly.

See, he isn't here.

But if he were to poll, perhaps, his popularity, he wouldn't rate very high.

But on the other hand, he's enormously effective.

Because he strikes hard, you know, at defense, and so forth.

Would that be a good idea?

We're not sure about it as much, like Alisop's confidence and so on, whether that's exactly the psychology he's using.

I just wonder what people are jealous of, and so forth.

We don't want to have anybody accuse me of having figured out how to successfully approach a cat, psychologically speaking.

Well, I understand comedy may be just too raw, with some of all the jokes I've seen.

Ask how many people, how many people know members of this gathering.

Start with a, any other copy would be up there.

They do drop down so far that it's almost beyond the summit.

And you come down and you hit Mitchell.

Mitchell is higher than Mitchell.

And Laird and Mitchell.

Maybe Laird is lower than Rogers.

Rogers is behind Mitchell.

Rogers is down there in Laird.

And then the rest of it is Zillow.

Well, the point is that on the Laird, on the Rocky, the one who should be up there with any disruptions

So true.

It's got to be harshness.

Narrow.

Midline.

Morton.

No visibility at all.

Even though he was proposed to pass the term.

Morton has that.

Popey has that.

Stanton has that.

Romney has that.

That's right.

Richard has some.

Richard's a little man, sir.

He doesn't bring much.

Hardness.

Absolutely not.

Hard cash on it.

Well, because that's the way the cabinet is on it.

Not necessarily, so...

Speaking of the cabinet, did you see that on Udall this morning?

Yes, I did.

Udall is a cabinet member in 3.11.

It's Stuart Clark.

Oh, yes, sir.

He has an army deserter assigned to his cabinet, and he introduced it to the press.

I'm going to check, but I think the desertion must have overlapped his term of secretary of the desertion.

It's kind of an interesting problem.

Well, it's so...

It's such a...

I feel for the poor bastards.

You know, you've got to see some of the letters that come in here from some of these kids that are rushing to Canada.

I can't really get the evidence.

Well, most of them are wrapped up.

Oh, of course.

This guy's a deserter.

Oh, he's a deserter, yeah.

Oh, Jesus.

Oh, this other guy's got a letter that I have to draft out here.

It's so funny.

Well, we've been around for several times.

We're trying to do things as well.

Oh yeah, and we haven't done anything directly on this basis.

But now we're in it for a long time.

Yeah.

No, at all.

It's just the PR.

It's also the substances.

They've got to get control of their department and look at the decision-making.

Everything's got to be considered, not in terms of anything prior to that.

That's what I heard.

I know we are asking the desk.

Okay.

We're asking the desk.

We're going to have those guys there.

John.

I had the opportunity to speak as far as I could, but yes, I think the 40-year-old will go well.

I had wished that a toe-dance around the problem of wrong harassment, on the basis of mental consideration for the committee, for us it was very, very relevant.

It was the last fact that indicated the approval that the team had, because it was finally very gradually indicated his assent.

It was like over to the committee.

What I'm asking is, what I'm seeing is that it would be very difficult to get a racist, enthusiastic support for this guy.

What I'm going to believe is that the problem with that guy is he's got no...

No farm knowledge.

He's completely a farm statistician.

He's a farmer.

He's a participant in Washington.

And he's a PhD in all the subjects that you take to be a farmer.

That's the main part.

He's a farmer.

Well, anyway.

This deserves closer scrutiny, but our list is still the same.

It's Butts, Johnson, Harlow.

I watch that stuff.

He's a fallback.

He's bland as hell.

And you're not going to get any pluses for it.

You can build a slot.

And Johnson, yeah, and he probably run that department.

Although I don't have him on my list.

I just don't think he's a viable alternative.

I think Johnson's a sniper and will fill the space.

Buds?

Buds at Johnson Hall.

He's coming in.

We're getting him in on the pretext today or tomorrow.

Yes.

What they're doing this week is running a thing to try and get some more input on Johnson, Buds, and the young guys at the department.

The young guys at the department?

Washington.

Yeah, the young guys.

Mike said this is not a smart thing to do.

I'm going to sit down on the rung and just chat with him about this.

And

The other thing, if we could get the same thing on track soon enough.

You know, we have to do something for heartache or some sort of thing.

My thing is that then we can do two.

Two at once.

Well, eventually it's not great.

I don't think much people do this.

It's too early, apparently.

I don't know why you did that, John.

Well, let's talk about Uber.

Uber now is with all its Taiwan problems.

The other problems are that he would like not to force the issue on us.

And particularly with the Princeton business now coming out as it is.

And I can see that.

You've got to overpress the thing.

You've got to let that ride.

But I think also, you have to let the Buckley problem subside at some point.

You don't want to exacerbate it at some point.

And the most good thing in our gaming mix is that even if you were to replace him right now, and take the responsibility for gaining back the hero, we couldn't get the damn thing by November.

So we'd be responsible for the mess.

So it's better to leave him in all the way through?

It's better, at least at his tenure, though, at the last of the election.

And then it just becomes a question of what you're going to ask him.

And that, as far as I'm concerned, is a question of opportunity.

When you get a calm, and when you sort of let this right-wing problem level itself out, that would give us some right-wing struggle, typically.

If Hoover were to announce that he was going to retire on January 1st, 1973, or on the qualification of his successor,

It's a new president.

He's in turn taking a successor between November and January.

My point is, you get the word out that the new president is going to appoint a successor.

That's right.

How about...

I'm a little concerned about the confirmation that the successor, Coe, has written.

Maybe he can do it without me.

Battleflights are already flying.

I'm not sure he can run the campaign and the department.

Maybe he can do both.

I guess the confirmation thing is, to me, it's the same problem.

Is there any problem believing that you've got with me?

Move it.

Stay calm, Bill.

Yes, sir.

We've got to pretend that it was a straw man.

But anyway, I have to do what I've got to do.

I've got to talk to him about what he may have done with one of these other campaigns.

Well, I think Stans, well, am I right that Stans is not an asset?

Or is he?

Maybe I'm wrong.

He's an asset at the margins.

At the margins.

I will only say that he's totally loyal.

He'll say anything.

But he's not certain in that job.

We could do a whole lot better.

What is your candidate, Peterson?

I've got two candidates.

Peterson and Plankton.

You got a problem with planning a conference meeting?

Maybe.

No, no reason to go for a conference meeting.

You have Peterson over there.

Oh, I think my name is Peterson.

Peterson's down on the end.

That's what I have.

I think Peterson's a guy who's a waste of commerce.

But he would be damn good at the Peterson job.

Peterson can be confirmed this year in planning.

I think not, but that's just a hunch.

Politically, I would argue he'd be better.

Out of himself, maybe.

They're both good, they're both able, and I like the idea of finances in that situation here.

I think that gives him a portfolio that he's needed.

I think it was just sort of a flexible lever.

Yeah.

Well, that's no problem.

Very awesome, right?

We agreed to meet somebody in that Peterson truck, and frankly, that we could put things in.

He has no confidence in Peterson now.

Does that make you wrong?

But on the other hand, even your involvement is in darkness fairness.

As reads the conclusion of Peterson's...

But he took it out, which I think is small.

Down here.

Richeson.

In terms of, quote, liberal in court, he's the only one I would consider.

Now, if something should happen to Berger, you've got to figure it.

Remember, I told you to figure out the options.

I put this down in the back of your mind.

If something should happen.

Oh, Rickardson, you know, is the man that we need to take justice for.

I think it was evident that he would end up in the Senate of that court, and everybody would be hanging on the left.

He was no radical.

And here's the guy.

He wasn't just first.

He was first in Harvard.

Oh, oh.

How do you like that?

I think he was first, or was he second?

He was probably first in black and white.

But a man who's got such class that every once in a while, he would be one of the, he would maneuver it to become one of the towering chief justices of history.

Because... Well, let me say that if we get another big incident before the next year, because my view is that we have a conservative line just about right.

I think that we went, and we had an impossible problem of confirmation

I hope it's after the election.

My career doesn't keep me better.

Well, listen, some of us will hang on until after the election.

No matter what.

Some of us will hang on.

He's precisely where we need him right now.

Oh, yes.

Oh, I would hold it against him.

I couldn't believe it.

In fact, when I think back on your idea of moving him over there, that was one of the really good ideas you had.

That's really good.

A lot of changes in the capital have been better than our selection.

Except that I must admit that I think Robbie's smart.

The damn system doesn't give me any time, you know.

I think he's holding his own right now, but I think what, unless we watch very closely, he's going to make a fine metal mistake over there one of these days, because of the way he operates, and that's going to be better.

Who's his undersecretary?

This guy, McCara, who's...

I think we really cannot let him leave.

I mean, I just think the confirmation that we all held him, he'd take a lie gas on a repression line, making the Justice Department your political headquarters.

Think for a minute about the concept of a leave of absence.

I don't know if there is such a thing for a cabinet officer.

But it seems to me that there is something in his symbolically removing himself from the department on a temporary basis.

I don't either.

But I know we're going to just take unsure criticism.

And he has all the dossiers, and he has all the, you know, enforcement.

Maybe we've got to move him.

We've got to pass him.

All that is the other possibility.

It's packing up raw, man.

That would solve another problem.

If Clanky just went out and did that.

Because as you're a lion now, right, and it caps to Mitchell, you're pretty much forced.

If Clanky just went out and did that, you'd have to promise him something.

Okay, you could promise him something, but at the same time you could put as damn good a deputy attorney general in there under Mitchell that would sort of steal that off, so that you wouldn't have to put him back in there.

Mitchell doesn't think he ought to go up, does he?

Well, I gather now, I've never discussed it straight out.

Well, you just got to find these reports.

That's right.

He just went like this, but whether that was because you wanted to keep him over there or what, I don't know.

That's for sure.

But, I don't know.

I think we're headed for a real crunch now if I need some confirmation.

Jesus Christ, we can't go through that.

The third option you haven't even raised, which is someone else that's a very different.

Oh, I see.

Well, okay.

But the implication of that is my niece will resign.

Unless the president says, Dick, I want you to settle after the election, in which case he would say...

The problem is that all the guys in there, like Marnie and some of the other guys in the woodwork over there, are Clint East people, because Mitchell pretty much turned over the organization of that department to Dick.

He just moved Clint East to...

Peter, what the hell have you got to buy?

You're sure right with me.

You feel it will make a lot of sense.

You have to take climate change.

You have to take climate change, unless you get it, we have to.

That's right.

We should be subject to commerce.

More agriculture.

That's right.

Well, you're being a lot of yourself.

I like it.

I don't know.

And I think it's a perfectly sensible option we're finding.

I'll pitch it to the state, to the electioneer, to the campaign, and then you'll leave right after.

Rob Spell would leave with the opportunity to get out of it, and then he might give it what he thought was more statute, which means it can't be closed.

He won't snap at anything else, and he'll probably leave after the election to go out and run for something, too.

Were we thinking to run us over to Congress at one point?

No, I hadn't.

How about run us over to Congress?

Let's start thinking in a different way.

It's just a little dumb question.

It was over to Congress, and we bring my people over here.

You're still getting surrounded, right?

Who the hell?

The whole purpose of this is to get... Until now.

Until now.

You've still got to find somebody to get confirmed.

Exactly.

How about moving out of there?

Well, let's see.

Randquist's gone, Wilson's gone.

Waller's is gone.

Pat Gray is who took Rumpelstiltskin's place.

I wanted to ask you guys on one thing I thought

We better get all the agencies to deal with foreign aid together this morning, so that everybody sings the same tune, and I've asked them to come to the situation room, and I can change it.

Just to, I understand pretend that Hannah has spent this weekend working with Chavez on saving the humanitarian aspects, and doing away with the military.

She's very lucky to do that.

Of course, and that's, of course, totally the opposite.

But that's the part Canada administers.

And that's the opposite of what we need.

And we can do without India and Pakistan aid, but we cannot do without Vietnam and Cambodia.

There's a matter of fact, the Israelis, no problem, all they want is to buy the damn plants.

But they're not giving them anyway.

Sure.

The Asia is not all that important.

So, our border policy requires a military side.

Exactly.

One thing that's very important to me is that we've got to read that.

We've got to start into a very, very bad position in terms of allowing this whole thing to go to the foreign exchange committee.

That is now absolutely clear.

Now, what the argument, of course, before was that they had to have, in order to have it true, they had to have the military side

in order to carry the other side.

Now, it's the other way around.

It's the other way around.

Although I'm not so sure that the other will go in without the military.

That's not so sure either.

It's a combination of vaccines on the other end.

What we ought to do is to separate out military aid in the future and send it through armed services.

I agree.

and separate out the other parts and send them to the foreign relationship.

That's the way the plan should be for next year.

It's another thing.

We'll talk to Rogers tomorrow.

We've just got to put it on that basis.

The two must be considered separate.

One will not carry the other.

And then you fight it out right now.

If we took military assistance away from him, he's exploded.

He's now...

He's irresponsible anyway.

All right.

What are you going to have your books for?

11.30.

Good.

Now, also, I wanted to get you guys...

I've got George Paul working.

Getting a group together...

Let me leave this up to you.

If you consider the findings of operations and so forth, I realize that I think we've got to consider it very fast.

The road's got a much better feel for the internal working program, and that's what our options are.

Thank you very much.

I don't think it's a terrible department, you can't change the rules.

But it's already pretty well torn up.

True, true, but that's the other point, you know, so you take out the two top men, let me talk to them, let's see what history, that's nice, but we haven't had it all out yet, and you said the two top men, what continuity do you have?

Well, they're going to have to replace three guys right now.

at the second level, yeah, third level.

I don't need money to take a reading out, actually, on this.

You haven't heard your thoughts on three things you want to discuss?

No, I'm satisfied that you're correct, that we've got to wait until things calm down, right?

And I think we should see Buckley's call together.

And the news magazines have a big piece on Buckley Brothers today, and the thing's very much stirred up.

So it just isn't the time.

Buckley is in town, and I thought I'd try to see him today.

Sure.

But I do think at some point when it's common on that side, that we ought to go for that delay whenever it's possible.

You haven't done it.

Yeah, I haven't.

Everybody thinks well.

It's a very sensible approach.

Just be sure that you love it.

Hold on.

I have not discussed it properly, but I have discussed it with Lydia and Crow.

That's enough.

And they both think that it's very workable.

I just don't think there's another way to deal with it.

About Bob's point, I think it's a good one.

If you bring the right along, it does support you to make sure that whoever is the next president that points the right kind or not...

When they know the Bobby Hempsey history over there, they probably have to say that he would be Bobby Hempsey if he ran as Clark, the head of the FBI, and that would be great, wouldn't it?

And then you start getting that repression in exactly 180 degrees, and that's where you can make a return call.

It incidentally is scary.

I don't think our lives would be worth a chance.

All right, let's let that set for a while.

So you will let me know, yes, sir, further.

I will go over this right back to you.

Now, the line I was going to take with that bureaucracy, Mr. President, I wanted to get you thinking first is that we ought to go on the attack.

We oughtn't to say we will discuss individual items.

We will say the line they ought to take is you are trying to build a generation for peace.

The foreign aid program that we had was designed to keep the free world strong, to give us the best negotiating positions.

and the Senate has irresponsibly knocked it off.

I think if we do it any other way, if we say, well, we're willing to restructure it, then these guys are going to come out and say, well, that's what we said all along, and they finally listen to us.

I think we ought to get these fellows on the defensive, who are thwarting your foreign policy, when you're going to Peking and Moscow, when Vietnam is coming to a crunch, all of these things...

And also they're concentrating the same amendment.

They must have had the Cooper Church Amendment in various forms up now three or four times.

The second question on which I've wanted some guidance, if you agree, Mr. President, is to find out how much you want me to try getting the establishment turned on on these things, on this thing.

I'm afraid they'll have to turn it on on the Janus line.

That's my problem.

Well, I think I can turn them on by saying that it's total irresponsibility.

In ten days you can't redesign the foreign aid program, which is when the present authority runs out.

And, uh, Paul, for example, agrees with us.

Paul is willing to go now.

Okay, we arrest you.

Yes, I'm on that case.

But, uh, as we well know, you could have sold our lead.

The national security of the United States is not going to be affected by any impassioned refugees, or by the programs for Africa, Latin America, and the third world.

And that's what these bastards are going to try to show us.

We've got to invest our head on that.

We've got to have some kind of bureaucracy.

Of course, we've got to give them a plan.

Well, I think the first plan has to be to push for the continuing resolution.

McGregor was doing it this morning.

I think we can get, we ought to be able to get May.

We talked to him from here.

And you may not have to do it at my pleasure.

Just bring it down.

If you check yet, why don't you go ahead and check now with them on mainline, and see if it's desirable for me to call them to get in, so we get this thing going today, in 120 days.

We just have to get over there.

I guess that's how it is.

No, I can't even tell this group at 11.30.

If that's on track, then we've got something specific to have them for.

That's just the principle.

Exactly.

No, that's just the principle.

These balls may be in a box here, but they are in one.

That's what I think as long as we don't become defensive.

Old prices can't be defensive at all.

Let's keep stopping, get a few more, and start racking.

That's right.

One of the things we've got to do is rock tomorrow.

It's true.

We're not going to have any tomorrow morning at 9.30.

This is to get him to see the people who are watching.

They believe on us too, so we should let him know who's sitting on this room here today.

Don't shake.

Perfect.

Good.

I'll just talk to him now.

Bill had a stake in the whole deal.

Oh yeah, and them two had a stake in front of half the line.

Bill had a stake in front of half the line.

And Rogers, because we really want him, what I had in mind was that after we finished meeting with Rogers, I want him to go out and tell the press that we were going to go, and this is it, and to attack the opposition.

Bill just got to get in there and slug it himself.

Absolutely.

He's got to slug it.

And not make any compromises either.

He usually...

Absolutely.

Well, I don't think this is, if they argue that this will be the reason,

No, but it's over.

I agree that it brings more difficulties.

I think we must rationalize by... You know, the legionnaires are moving along, and we're not sure if they're going to settle or not.

No, they've seen us in trouble before.

Yeah, sure.

And...

We have planted words around the world that they're going to be taught to sell.

Oh, you'll get that?

No, I don't think it will be.

We've indicated we're going to make a fight of rogues and make a positive statement that we are going to have a program.

I noticed you saying one already.

Very well.

Actually, the North Vietnamese propaganda is very uncertain right now in the internal instructions they give to their people.

He's here for the USIA meeting, and I think I ought to see whether I can quiet him down a little bit.

That's what I'd like to find out, because I can...

That's right.

You know, when one sees how the Democrats are behaving, how any conservative could run the risk of this gang getting into power is unbelievable.

Here they are.

Stuart Alsop had a stinking comment this week on the absence of any moral responsibility on the part of the Democrats.

This is on his vote?

Well, he did it on the Cooper Church Amendment, and then he just threw in a paragraph, obviously tacked on at the end, about the foreign aid vote, but he said, here are these people asking us to force our allies to surrender by cutting off economic and military aid.

That's right.

He said they can't bear the fact that your policy has succeeded.

It's a very tough article.

Well, as you go through the news summary, it's quite clear that our friends on the other side are...

They say Frank the car, but the people aren't adamant.

What's the go-around?

Do they know yet?

Yeah.

Macron's position is adamant.

He will go for a continuing resolution only to the time of the Senegal adjournment.

He will not go beyond.

Jerry Ford and Krav are both agree with him, because they want to put maximum pressure on the Senate.

They don't want to let the Senate off the hook by giving them a continuing resolution to March.

They will, if in dissenter just before adjournment, they haven't gotten action out of the Senate, they will then go for a continuing resolution carried beyond.

And he may not, will not go for the 120 days, because it will take the heat off the Senate and screw those titles.

Carl feels, Albert feels very strong on the subject, very strong for the...

There's no wavering in his part, and Ford, of course, does too.

The other thing they're going to do is, and they have agreed, but not very strongly, is to go for, in the House, to go for a rule to consider the foreign money bill.

without waiting for the authorization.

And the argument there would be that it would be good psychologically to show prompt house action on the foreign aid money bill as another way of kicking the Senate face out.

Now, Maynard has already adopted that strategy on the defense money bill.

where he's going to go for a rule to consider that without the authorization.

And so they said the same logic applies to Morne, and he's not enthusiastic about that, but he's agreed apparently.

That's Albert Porter pushing that.

So we've got that strategy basically set in the House.

The Court says he meant...

My meeting will be very brief.

I just want to make sure that all agencies seem to stay in tune and work.

If you would ask the country...

Oh, no question.

No question.

At least the ones I've called.

Yes, we've gotten in touch with all of them.

All right.

But those who, whom you called into vote with us, may not be... May all of those who did vote with us.

It doesn't make sense.

Oh, Kennedy has left the Senate.

He wouldn't...

He won't do it.

He'll do it only until the summit, and that isn't really... Well, we just can't take the career safety department.

Oh, I talked to Conley, the senator who went with me the other day, and he was talking to me about a report that was called in one of the United States of America's meeting rooms.

Jos was sitting at, you know, Jos had a favorite stage partner.

He says, Cole came back, the old Cole, you know, the old conservative.

He says, he was really shocked.

He says, he says, I thought that I was having a hell of a lot more problems with Jos than there were with the Europeans.

There's no question about that.

What the hell is he going to do?

He's going to set us on a call.

He's going to be with us.

Or is he?

He'll be like Jos.

He won't be like Jos, but there is a professional.

Jos is an ideologue.

It isn't Setzel they want, it's Stoeckle, the fellow in Warsaw.

Setzel would be totally wrong.

Stoeckle is a good, grey, unimaginative, he isn't our man, he won't work against us.

He isn't like Jost, but if somebody like Tex Thornton would take it, it'd be more reliable.

He had a whole list of, you know, texts on time.

I know the thing is, it's the question of really learning, knowing the bureaucracy.

And it's a goddamn hard thing over there, you know.

That's how easy it got for somebody to step into for a year in.

That's right.

I think your idea of going off to find...

Somebody who could do it, but who would never pass the Senate or the State Department is Strauss or Pei, because he actually would understand it.

He never passed the Senate.

He'd never get to the Senate.

The State wouldn't let him.

No, the State wouldn't let him get there.

Well, we're trying to move him into some other post and get him to do that.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

He did a good job in Ceylon.

Yeah, we're trying to move him up, because he always promised to Europe the input.

Yeah, he does.

They won't.

The new Japanese ambassador, I see, will probably come back if he misses the recognition.

That would be great.

Well, there, I definitely would not send a foreign service officer.

There, it would be a good job.

Yeah, I think so.

Yes, we can handle ourselves.

This is an immediate problem.

I think that you've got to realize, Henry, that it's very easy to fault a greater crowd.

I don't fault them.

I think that Joe Bob, they've worked their butts off.

They've been very good helpers.

Very good helpers.

And I say very good helpers.

Very good helpers on the top.

It's the military and the group of church members.

And they were bushed and tired, as I said, outside the football team.

They scored three times.

They let out and threw their suction.

And that's what happened here.

Now, everybody said, what happened here is that it's lived by everyone.

We didn't know down here.

I don't quote them.

This was beyond anyone's imagination.

The point is now, in terms of the PR side of it,

It's inevitable that we're going to take a whack.

You know, they're the dictator.

They're seizing upon everything to blame this for.

It is amazing to see.

They take the whole change, for example.

You know, they were praising us for a surprise earlier, and now they're saying we shouldn't have surprises for it.

But they know goddamn well.

To think that they've kept the UN vote going for over a week.

When they couldn't keep the Moscow Summit going for two or three days.

Two days.

And they were dying.

And the news magazines this week don't even mention the Peking trip.

It's all U.S. Newsweek literally doesn't even mention it.

I don't worry about it.

It shows what we're up against.

It's not surprising, but they were dying.

And when they support us, they do it only out of necessity.

And that is one clear lesson one can draw from it.

Every time they come around, we think we've changed their minds.

That is absolutely not true.

We will never change their minds.

They're done now.

This is what I've learned.

When they support us, it is because we are so overwhelmingly ahead of them that they don't dare to make a feat.

China was that way, and so was Moscow.

But the point is that the reason they let Moscow down is they know they didn't want to build it up again.

So there you are.

And as far as you're concerned, it was China's experience.

It wouldn't be any different if we had these women over and over again.

They weren't going to put it in.

They weren't going to play it.

Did you break off?

Yep.

They had made their command decision.

They thought they'd come, due to the fact that it'll just be television, but it'll be TV.

They've got to do it.

But they are then, well, not going to try this.

In fact, they were hoping at the time, you know, they had all the stories before we announced your trip, that maybe it was good, maybe it was in trouble, and all that.

And now at this point, so they blame it on them.

That's what they did.

And they blamed it for it.

They blamed it for it.

They got a combination of circumstances because of it.

Mr. President, I can't find one senator whose vote could have been affected, but the people who beat us on foreign aid weren't the people who would be affected by your statement, they were the democratic liberals.

Men, if you go through the list of those who were against Dole, had voted against foreign aid, I was told, for 13 straight years.

Sure.

He's considered.

If you go...

So, if you go through the list of those who voted against... That's right.

I've said... We don't need to act like that.

We'll fight on that anyway.

That's the only...

The only...

The only answer to an attack is the offensive.

Don't do that.

Don't get in the background.

It's a trap.

Right, Bob?

Yes.

And I'm not concerned about it.

I'm not concerned, but you look back.

Look, you remember the headlines and the weeks that we took when they...

I think we'll get through it now or so, something like that.

And they were bushed and tired, as I said, outside the football team.

They scored three times.

They let out and threw their suction.

And that's what happened here.

What happened here is that it slipped by everyone.

We didn't know down here.

I don't quote them.

It was beyond anyone's imagination.

The point is now, in terms of the PR side of it,

It's inevitable that we're going to take a whack.

You know, they're the dictator.

They're seizing upon everything to blame this for.

It is amazing to see.

They take the whole change, for example.

You know, they were praising us for a surprise earlier, and now they're saying we shouldn't have a surprise for it.

But they go goddamn well.

To think that they've kept the UN vote going for over a week.

When they couldn't keep the Moscow Summit going for two or three days.

Two days.

And they were dying.

And the news magazines this week don't even mention the Peking trip.

It's all U.S. Newsweek literally doesn't even mention it.

I don't worry about it.

It shows what we're up against.

It's not surprising, but they were dying.

And when they support us, they do it only out of necessity.

And that is one clear lesson one can draw from it.

Every time they come around, we think we've changed their minds.

That is absolutely not true.

We will never change their minds.

Sit down now.

This is what I've learned.

When they support us, it is because we are so overwhelmingly ahead of them, that they don't dare to make a feat.

China was that way, and so was Moscow.

But the point is that the reason they let Moscow down is that they didn't want to build it up again.

So there you are.

And as far as you're saying, it was a Chinese experience, and it wouldn't have been different if we had these women over and on.

They weren't going to put it in.

They weren't going to play it for two or three bucks.

They had made their command decision.

They thought they'd not do the exact thing.

It'll just be television, but it'll be TV.

They've got to do it.

But they are damn well not going to try this.

In fact, they were hoping at the time, you know, they had all the stories before we announced your trip, that maybe it was good, maybe it was trouble and all that.

And now at this point, so they blame on them.

And they blamed the board, they blamed the board, they had a combination of certain chances because of the...

Mr. President, I can't find one senator whose vote could have been affected, but the people who beat us on foreign aid weren't the people who would be affected by your statement, they were the democratic liberals.

Thank you.

Men, if you go through the list of those who were against Dole, had voted against foreign aid, I was told for 13 straight years.

Sure.

He's considered.

If you go...

So if you go through the list of those who voted against... That's right.

I've said no, we'll be fine.

No, why is that?

Could it be... We don't need to act like that.

We'll fight on that anyway.

That's the only, the only, the only answer to an attack is the offense.

Don't do that.

Don't get in the background.

It's a trap.

And I'm not concerned about it.

Look, you remember the Kett lines and the weak, bad stuff we took when they passed the maximum amount?

They made for cops in June and July.

Oh, yeah.

It was awful.

Massive defeat.

Massive defeat for the president.

Insanity.

Defeat for the president.

Remembering him in one vote after vote.

They said it was surprising.

He never would have had his presence.

What I'm getting at is this.

This is just one of those things where the establishmentarian types, you know, just love those.

What is typical is that when you read this, when you've got guys like this, or Marcus Charles and so forth, you know, what are they saying?

Well, this is because of the, this is after the other thing.

Of course, they blind us, and I thoroughly expected them to.

The only guy that saw the bite of it was Crosby and I.

They said, well, this is...

This is because of the president's very, what do they call it, his tampered remarks.

It's what we're calling it, his tampered remarks.

Back in the day, it was a damn tampered.

We said we were going to continue to support the United Nations.

We were going to continue to support a foreign nation.

And it's definitely, no video cabinet done that.

You wouldn't even have popped me in the dot after I was there.

Nor did you attack the boat.

Nor did you attack the behavior.

Well, I'm trying to get it clear.

We didn't attack the boat.

We said we'd sell the boat.

We lost it.

It's better to push it.

What I'm getting at is that

You've got to remember that they are attacking on any bolster only can.

For example, they're attacking on any of the time they use them.

They don't need to believe that.

They know that.

They think, well, why do we do this?

This is a terrible thing.

Why don't we consult our allies?

They don't need to consult their allies at the time of the attack.

Not really.

But they got to attack.

There really wasn't any other time to take the trip.

There was no other time to take the trip.

There was no way.

Because if we took it now, we'd be in worse trouble after losing the boat.

I'm positive.

But I'm just telling you that this is a game.

And we were to take it.

And believe me, you have people saying, oh, this is a terrible blow.

It didn't pass.

Oh, I don't think, I think it's a sort of, in three weeks, no one will remember what all this was about.

A few weeks.

It's, uh...

Right.

Today is... Yeah.

This kind of thing, yeah.

I think, well, it will all go away.

The thing is significant.

I think, yeah.

The U.N. will stick around.

The U.N. will keep busting this car.

It's been opened for a month.

It's been moved.

Well, that's, and it's not all...

You know, they're trying to build this, defeat this sophisticated column, and George Sherman's all excited about it.

I've got to get a look at that guy.

I don't even know who he is.

Do you know him?

No.

I've never seen him either.

I've never laid eyes on the man.

I don't know if he's right.

He's taken us to us every week.

He's only important because he's here.

I didn't know he existed until that article two weeks ago.

He never called anybody a bug, I know.

But even that, I just think this, we don't, just don't let the foul people that we're going to talk to are about, well, we've had a bad week or a good week, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't make a difference.

We just have to play it, and it's for sure.

Yes, sir.

Well, the only thing I would say is that we express confidence that the responsible members of both parties in the Senate and in Congress will come until the responsible Senate has prevailed, will prevail.

I think you've got to give us confidence.

You've got to have confidence in the reason that after this is an action.

Now they have to be responsible members.

This is an essential program for the building of the...

Right.

I would keep hitting that until... Yeah, and I...

This is essential for...

Well, the other point is that this aid program is essential for the purpose of carrying out the president's policy of reducing American forces of war, of carrying out the Nixon doctrine, needing others to help themselves, and reducing American forces of war, which it does.

Take Cambodia, they feel about Cambodia, they have a hundred Americans in Cambodia who have no cash in them.

The warped morality of these people is unbelievable.

75,000 North Vietnamese are in Cambodia.

No one says a word about that.

In the north-south, we had the 75,000.

In Cambodia, the communists, do you understand?

That's the double standard.

That's how the double standard we are.

You see it on this here.

Everybody sees me drive, his father, his mother, and he's so sorry about it.

And there's a hell of a lot more freedom in Spain.

You know that, that there isn't.

It was wrong, you know.

That's a much more attractive country.

But Franco Sebastian, he's a communist, so he's a nice father, and he's a bad father.

That is it.

It's all.

We all want his back.

I think it came off well over the weekend, don't you think?

I think so, yes, sir.

We expect that this season, honestly, when all these points are continued to push for continued resolution after the... Yeah, at the end of the resolution.

And we don't agree to any compromise, you know.

No, we don't agree to any compromise.

This is a balanced program, and it will not succeed unless the balance is destroyed.

And if the balance is destroyed, you cannot build a knife in one part, but hold the knife in another part.

Okay, thank you very much.

I think the idea around this is essentially for the purpose of carrying out the President's program, reducing the American forces, helping others to help themselves.

This is what our aid program is about, the military assets of it.

But I think you've handled it very well so far.

Actually, what you have to realize is that this is inevitable.

I mean, there's a crowd all the time in his crib, and that had an effect on the U.N., or an effect on the U.N. And now we should have brought our allies about China.

We should have, but we couldn't.

Well, maybe we shouldn't criticize the conduct of the U.S. government.

They didn't have to expect the polls.

But the point is, they have to take this on.

It's very strong, huh?

That's good.

It's an issue.

Mostly we're against for it.

Don't worry about it.

You know, I think one of the more stupid suggestions of your secretary, John Sears, is that

He says that we really ought to change the press secretaries and get somebody who has more credibility with the press and say...

It's good.

Great.

He never puts a foot wrong.

He does exactly what he does, and he stands there, he's cool.

And he doesn't build himself at the expense of you.

Never, never, never.

He is a tough customer.

And if you tell him to take us to Lacking, he's out there day after day after day.

He's got to get out there.

He sticks his chin out.

He's out in a really high level development.

He would have been defensive.

Cambodia laws.

Hell, I mean, compared to what we've been through, there's just going to be nothing.

It isn't.

I can't, don't you agree?

This is a zilch.

Look, compare this basically.

The foreign aid, the UN vote.

It's time to run.

Jesus Christ, I mean it.

And that's going to start dominating it on November 22nd, when you make that other announcement.

Now, with our meeting tomorrow with Rogers, I think we ought to get him programmed to go out here if he will.

And you might suggest that he gets back earlier than I tell him.

He gets back at six o'clock in the morning.

And now, if he will, we're not going to question him.

Because if he doesn't, if he drives in that car, then he doesn't do it.

If he does, yeah.

He'll be so defensive.

The other thing is, I think that I need you again.

We ought to get his head in setting up the Latin American thing, and I think that must be done by Roberts.

He's got to do something where he's... Oh, I couldn't hear that.

I don't know, but I bet it's...

I think...

I think Presidio or something like that, that's probably the safest place.

For you to go down there?

The Medici's coming up, you know, in December.

That's what I'm talking about.

I'm meeting the heads of government.

With the Latins.

You know, where we braised them on, before our trips.

And sold them their Latin American bread.

That's correct.

Brazilians, they only claim public safety.

I should have them here, in Miami or something, but they would want to come here.

Keep working on that.

So I'm going to raise that subject for you tomorrow.

The other thing is, I thought I would tell you, like, uh,

I say now, we're meeting with Larry this afternoon, and I want you to argue something.

I say, we haven't told you anything about the true thing that I want, but I haven't told you the reason.

I say, do we have just received a note that we have to be back on the 23rd?

Correct.

They've asked for a meeting on the 23rd.

I've also tried to, just a little, I've tried to tell them that Peter would have a private conversation with me.

He said,

The Russians now are, have spoken to me, that are speaking to me.

I'm just going to leave it there.

So the Russians, you see, we've got to get him totally off of the way of saying, well, gee, the view of this whole thing, we can only come up with a final announcement.

Now, that person, and we've got to, and the way, the only way to get him off the way, he's got to be convinced that there is a chance

For some progress, I'm negotiating.

And at that chance, it's the 23rd.

So you just stand there and look there blind.

Well, that's what I was going to suggest you to do.

Obviously, it's out there.

And I'm going to throw in the two little things.

And he told me, and I'm proud of him, he took me aside, spoke to me in English, and said the Russians are going to do what they need.

I don't know what it means, but we're going to find out.

I really have to bring him swearing, because I told the president, as I told you on the telephone,

He said, what sort of a communique are you planning with the Chinese?

I said, we have two versions.

We are thinking of one as a global one, and the other one as a bilateral one.

He said, I bet the Chinese want the global one.

I said, I can't tell you who wants what.

But if I could write this script myself, I'd make it very restrictive.

The only trouble is if the war in Vietnam is still going on, we both have to say something about that.

We can't say something about that alone, so we have to bring in everything.

So he said, well, I promise you we're going to try to talk to them.

Because what they would love is to sort of communicate out of China that we're already gone.

And then a very sweeping one out of Moscow.

On the Vietnam, our bookkeeping is now straight, because whenever I've seen him, I've shown him

A slightly sanitized version of the memo to you, but it looks to him like a copy of a memo to you, so he thinks he knows everything.

And it has the essence of it in it.

It just sometimes has a few references.

So, since July, he's been right up in step with it.

Of course, he's always figured it wouldn't work, how he'll behave if he thinks it might work.

Isn't so sure.

I think my thought is to go forward with an announcement.

I think we'll have an experience on how the strategy evolves on this resolution.

As low, as little as possible this time, and then shoot everything in the next one.

Oh, I understand that.

At the end of the day.

Oh.

At the end of the day.

It's tough at the end of the day.

You go early.

You don't allow the build-up.

Go late.

They can't do anything anymore.

No.

What I'm saying is that if you go early, if you don't have these arms filled up, you're never going to find one else.

Right.

That's right.

So, there's something that would be awful lot to be said by going before the weekend.

This weekend.

Right.

Not to tell the following.

Oh, before the following, that's fine with me.

If it's before the following weekend, that's great.

That makes no difference.

15th is Monday.

Well, then I would like to go before the weekend.

Why do you need before the weekend?

If you make your announcement before that weekend.

Yeah.

If you cut down on the speculation...

Over the 15,000.

No, I was thinking of going a week before.

I think that has something to be said.

Well, it has to be weighed against what these pastors might do in the Senate then, at the end of all.

I understand you're trying to preempt their building up to the 15,000.

On the other hand, supposing you pass something on the 8th, or you come out with something this week or next week, and then they all start emoting in the Senate with a terrible disappointment, this is, and this proves that the Senate... Well, that's the reason I said it.

If there's some chance, that's what we have.

I don't know if there's anybody thinking of continuing the resolution.

If there's a chance of continuing the resolution, it could get through.

It could get through.

Before the 15th, I'll wait for the 15th.

I think it...

I think then there's a chance of getting through this week.

Well, if there is a chance of that, then I'll wait until after the continued resolution, but if the continued resolution, I'll be sticking around anyway, then the best thing is to see my clients.

That's right.

That's why I say the strategy of the continued resolution will affect the announcement.

And I think we can be flexible.

But I agree with you that on the announcement, we just have to say we're leaving.

Yes.

That is, there has been announced 40,000, and...

And then... And then we will have... How are we going to suggest something other than that?

So I'll say it to Rogers, then.

Jack, or... You can do one of the things.

I can say it in December.

No, no, I wouldn't say December.

I would say before the end of January, you will make a full report to the American people of where we have been and where we are going.

That would be one strategy.

The other is to say 40,000 for two months.

You're increasing the withdrawal rate?

I don't think it will report anything.

I don't know, it will worry people.

And it will, it plays into with what you told Tito, as far as North Vietnam is concerned.

It's a deadline on everything.

I don't know what they can do to preempt it.

I don't quite agree with you.

The concern is not that

It sounds bad to me, because it sounds like you're recognizing the accuracy of your November announcement, and going for that light at the end of the tunnel kind of stuff.

Yeah, but that's what it's going to be.

I know, but why say so?

Why not just announce it?

I guess in this case, I'll just say it, and I'll have another announcement.

I don't think the full report is it.

I just say we'll have another announcement in January.

I think that's what I like to see.

Another announcement in January.

We're going to do this 40,000 times.

They might multiply some 40,000 and see if you can allow them.

First thing they'll do is extrapolate.

They'll go out to 20,000 a month, and then...

Eight months.

Nine months.

Nine months for everything.

Nine months, they won't be able to...

They'll take a residual force, or they'll be down by June to the residual force.

You'll see.

I mean, in the past...

What I meant is, that's also, that's a step up in rate, isn't it?

That's a 30% step up in rate.

Well, the main thing is that 9 months, 9 months of 20,000 is a total withdrawal before the election, correct?

That's in effect what that, that's right, before the election.

True.

Now, as a matter of fact, we are going to have a total withdrawal.

That's right.

Unless we get a agreement.

And that's why I saved the draftee announcement until January.

That's right.

No, I agree with you.

The draftee announcement, there's no reason to throw it out.

Not that it's general rules.

Save the draftee announcement.

I don't even discuss this with Bill at the time.

Nor with Lear.

Why me?

Why have Ben?

Well, why do you get the draftee announcement that I made last night in January?

Why?

Because you won't need it as much then.

No, if in January, if... Oh, if we have the negotiations...

Then nothing matters.

If we don't have the negotiation center, we have a residual board and at the same time no draftee.

You've got to have something that leads to say.

The extrapolation of the 20,000 a month will be all you need in November.

I really think it will.

Or it's just the way you plan it.

December, January, February, March, April.

May.

June.

July.

August.

Get everybody out by the end of September.

August.

The end of August is the way it is to be.

Count end of September.

Nine facts.

There's 184,000 left.

Well, they're nine months.

By the end of August.

End of August.

How about just consider one other possibility?

October.

You know, the Christmas thing always appeals to me just a little bit.

Is there any way that we could maybe have a bigger one in December?

Oh yeah, that we can do.

No, I mean announce it that way.

I've announced today that we will have maybe 25,000 in that, and then 15,000 in the next month.

Okay, that doesn't make that much sense.

I don't think it's really just 20,000.

The way we can do it is spend it out of the month and then have defense and put out

At least 25,000 of those will be home for Christmas.

25,000 will be home for Christmas.

Alright, that's the way we'll do it.

That kicks in.

That one's alright.

It's 25,000 home for Christmas.

25,000 to 40,000 will be home for Christmas.

I'm so sorry.

Go ahead.

We couldn't make it as part of the formal announcement.