Conversation 612-004

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Hello?

Russell, I'm not calling you for a thing, except I just noticed that on my spot you're having a birthday.

So I want you to know that you can't have a birthday without having your friend and somebody else calling you up.

Yeah.

I know you have a lot of work done and everything, but take off tonight and tell your wife I ordered you out of the house.

Stay there.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Right.

All right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Sure.

You say at the present time that, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the Treasury is, uh, they're testifying against it, haven't they?

All right.

Yeah, Wally told me something about it.

I'm, uh, I mean, he had no interest in it.

I had it done.

Maybe you should just do that and have a nice time.

No, he hasn't.

I know.

He's in there.

Come on.

I know that.

I know.

I'll take a look.

I'm not familiar with the numbers and everything, but I appreciate you filling me in on it.

Let me take a look at it, please.

Right.

Well, anyway, don't start counting with Dan Burke.

He's going to fall.

Okay.

I remember when I was 53, I was really a founder.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Good.

Oh,

I don't know.

You see what I'm doing?

Yeah.

All right.

I know that this, we've told them that you'll, that you do want to talk to them before actually you go.

Yeah.

Well, that's the first thing.

And that may be all.

Yeah.

Okay.

Where is it?

Good talk with Julie.

I've got her with Dave Parker, and we've got some good stuff going for the rest of this week.

So she's kind of her pebble and a way of going at it.

I've asked her to give us a hand in looking at how we can put all this together, not only for her, but to get Bob.

Would you, uh, if you could stop by and pick up Henry and come out and talk a little about that trip.

I just got your memorandum.

You've already talked to Haig, but, uh, pick up Henry and Haig and just drop in and talk to us.

Yeah, anytime is convenient.

I'm here in his Oval Office.

Now, I can see the key to the point.

I think she's right.

This is Pat.

We ought to get Pat out of the way.

We've got to get Pat out of the way.

It's too dim.

It was a pleasure to talk to them all, you know, and it was a really great time to sit down.

Congressman Doug Crane of Illinois.

So, uh, for, you know, make the word, make it fair, A or B. I should, yeah, I don't have too many.

I don't have them all.

But she got going then, and she said, for instance, would they be good enough?

And she said, I don't know, whether we help with the youth vote or not.

I don't know whether we turn them off or do good.

So I said, why don't you get together with Jamie McClain and Ken Rice, the two guys that are working on our youth vote, and go into that.

Well, she got interested in that.

See, that's a damn good idea.

And I said, why don't you turn it off?

Well, I know there are places where you can turn it off.

I said, for instance, you can do it on a very small scale.

You can go to Rockford College, Illinois, where we know they're all for us.

and sit down with them in just a small group.

And she said, but I can't tell them what the administration position is.

And I said, tell them you want to come and hear what they think.

Because you'd like to go back and tell your dad that he's interested in knowing that this is one way he can find out.

And she said, but then I wouldn't get any coverage.

I said, no, but what you do is you spend an hour there listening.

Then you go on the, what's his name, show.

Cousinette.

Cousinette show.

You send the whole town talking about what you talked to the college students about.

Then will you reach millions of people?

And she got kind of cranked up with that.

So we've done, you know, we went through a lot of ideas on that.

Now she's going to do the Jennings County, Indiana 4-H Club group tomorrow that, you know, is going to be as perfect.

It isn't right for you to see him.

It'd be great for her to see him.

She's going to see him at the Mrs. Candy arrival and give a little hint.

coverage on that.

Yeah.

So I thought.

Pick it up.

I'll be here tomorrow.

No, no, I can't even run this announcement with Dean much.

The two, I don't know, I think it would probably work.

Two is really good.

That's again, that's almost getting to the zero level.

And you're, the way that's going, you're going to have a week somewhere here where it is zero.

That's what Bill Rogers says.

Well, you could work a job in statistics like this week.

What?

It almost, this week would have been worth holding off notification to get a zero a week and log it out.

No, we've got the 11.

Except we can't have this coming, but I mean, this past week when we only had the two, they could have maybe held off on those.

Okay, well, then that'll be a big night.

Look, I'm glad you're in on the Julie thing, because I think it's going to be a hell of an accident.

I think we should say they can have a seat in the White House and stand, and let Pat Moss back to host the end of the day.

I was just saying, his dreams are further involved while she's ahead of Mr. Johnson, host of the Chiefs.

I'm sorry to let off on that deal.

Sure.

Or the Secretary of Commerce and White House.

Good work.

One last mistake.

Mistake?

Yes.

That's a good idea.

Uh, Bob, uh, apparently, uh, you're, uh, you're one, uh, I talked to Henry earlier today, Bob, having a meeting before you got here, and you met with Hedge, and now you're postponing it now, is that correct?

No, sir, well, we've been together until Wednesday, yes, sir.

When do you go?

Wednesday.

Wednesday, what?

Before Brown gets back, Bob.

Yes, sir.

What is the situation in Canada?

Is there any progress on the Canadian negotiation yet?

I don't want you to waste your time on that.

No, no, I haven't been able to.

I don't want to have a partnership with all the police.

Is that right?

I don't know.

We'll find out by tomorrow.

No, I was going to do it.

I was going to do it when I saw Peter tomorrow.

Yeah.

I don't think we've been announced the decision with regard to removing the surcharge for Latin America until Connolly gets back.

No, I think Connolly has to be here when that is done.

And you see we can remove it for Latin America until we look for Canada too.

That's not the 15th.

That's not the 15th, so the date then doesn't call us in on that, Bob.

You know, I notice, I think you're right, though, as I'm marketing your MRI on the MRI.

Of course, you can't take these finance people if you're not going to discuss that.

You know, I think the other thing is, let's face it, it's on the track.

We'll work out, it's very obvious, we'll work out the talking papers for you.

Let's say they're the only ones you've got, but the ones that will guide you will be the ones that we'll do in the NSC.

Because you see, the States has a viewpoint that is quite different from Congress.

Quite different.

On military assistance in particular.

That's the one I need.

Well, I don't know if you should be getting a military man.

Well, we've got him.

We've got him.

We've got Colonel Gravel.

He's going to be, he's going to be probably general, your general, to give us the line on that.

I carried with Walker this morning that we can go as far as you want and encourage you to come, but the attitude of the military is totally different.

Well, as a matter of fact, it is totally different.

The question is how much you can get away with.

Argentina, Brazil, I don't know.

We've got a lot of things up in the air right now.

Well, that goes back to...

The Prime Minister, the President of both of these countries, especially in Brazil, is supposed to see him alone for some days.

Yes, sir.

And to tell him that you would welcome him with the same... We are in residence, sir.

...round trees that he's got, but he's foreign service.

He's foreign service.

But see, I want him.

I think, since we've done this for so long, that I think it should be arranged that every time, every time, that Bob should have a half-hour chat

with the head of state or something along.

That's a rule that I follow.

Is that right?

I think that'd be excellent.

And I said, well, how do we go with the contract?

We don't change.

Absolutely.

Got something you'd like to tell the president personally?

You know, it just gives them a lot.

Second thing with regard to something about taking them off.

Is there anything you think we should take?

Yes.

I don't think you need to.

They may give you something.

We could, we could drop them.

I think they've all, you want to check to see whether they've all got pictures.

I just think it's ridiculous.

Well, I guess they like to have pictures on them.

That could be a good thing.

I think that's pretty good.

That's right.

You might give them a picture of the, that picture of the two of us, the wedding picture.

If you see Donna, you know, that feels like this picture from the autograph of the other side.

It's very personal.

If Bob could have made it easy, if we would like to have that, to close this confidential relationship, and that we'd be prepared to set up a separate channel to them from this office.

Yeah.

And then if you'd be back, and if you'd postpone that again, send him back at the second or third of your sentence.

Thank you.

I mean, here's the good thing.

We can tell you where he gets back.

So that's my point.

So, you know, we know what he's going to come, one of the men in the heart of this is the question of you and I sorting out before we get there in terms of him.

If you could help sort of set it out, that's your point.

So you're basically advancing in that direction.

No, no, but what I meant was if Bob could tell him that this is your intention, it would help.

If that is the right mood, you wouldn't have... We can work out the details with him when he's here.

But if you could tell him that it's the President's attitude towards our Brazilian relationship, I think it would...

I noticed we have Ecuador on there.

I'm sort of disappointed.

I suppose it's too late to kick that out after that.

Well, Ecuador... Huh?

That's what the Congress is, and I would see art in it.

Well, we don't bother with the personal conversation.

He's basically a friend of ours.

You've got to add about the votes, I understand.

It's a pretty stubborn statement.

He was protesting, whether he was talking on both sides or not, I don't know.

Is he a friend of ours?

Basically, he got turned out because we cut out...

He's the only one to whom we cut out foreign military sales.

The main thing, I would like to talk about the problem is whether or not he has a law, an advisor that we can trust.

I want him to be vandalized.

He got you a permission.

You did a good job.

Well, that's good.

Who are you taking from the state?

That's the power of strength.

Well, he's elegant, nice, and everything.

That's all right.

What about this Mazzocco, who's Peterson's recommendation now?

I don't know.

He's supposed to be a hard line.

He's good in that part.

And, of course, one violent fall over is the next one.

Thank God that he came through for us.

I have to love him.

I thought the president was just crazy.

I just thought he was wonderful, how he came through.

And I know his heart and I will remember him.

Yeah.

Hello?

I thought you were less than 40, but Bill Tennant told me you had a birthday today.

You're 41.

I just wanted to congratulate you.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, listen, don't worry about it.

But you can also tell us all those wonderful kids of yours that you haven't met down here in the White House to watch as you come follow us.

We're glad you're down here.

And get out of that house.

I'm not saying you're both get out of that house and get home tonight, okay?

Yeah.

You can call my lawyers.

I used to congratulate members of my staff, but I've now decided that they're going to leave me anyway.

I think this is a good memorandum.

And let me say that if there's anything further that we need to talk about, I'll tell you what I'll do about it.

I think the best thing here is, do you think, Henry, that we all have to be carried out?

It's a personal thing.

I think that would be good.

Yes, okay.

Further, Mr. Brown, in the drafts, I mean, given the stuff that came over from the state, we just sent it back and told them to get, it had to be sharper and more specific with the nonsense.

But we're getting to Henry to polish up.

I want to tailor-made each country.

Of course.

And they're just absolute... Well, like Al, have our jurors and the curator, he can just look over those drafts and put in the sort of personal things that I've tried to put in and this and that.

But the idea first is that the counselor is my closest, closest associate and friend, one of my closest associates and friends, that he, that he, that he has my total confidence that they can talk to him in total confidence.

and that I want to know what their views are about what our policies should be and how we can improve relations.

And that any tensions that, like where they voted with us in the UN, I just put a little note in there, particularly with regard to Mexico.

I'd like to appreciate that.

or before, because Connie Walker didn't want to walk.

Connie would weigh in on this heavily.

And I did.

It's real clear.

They want to announce it publicly before I go.

They can't do that.

And I told them, I said, I don't know if I can surcharge them.

And the fact that foreign aid is off and we let them off 10%, we give them 10% and up.

But Jesus, we've got to take it up fast.

One more thing before I go.

I might be bringing anything anyway, but it's pretty hard to develop.

And I thought part of the policy was that you had to get it.

We were going to do it, but we were going to run up a lot of flags about it.

I mean, we were going to have a strong policy, but we weren't going to...

Listen, don't let us give you the wrong impression on Meyer.

He's a sweet guy.

He's a nice guy.

You just saw him.

But what we want to know is to be sure that Al, does our man, is he a hard hunter?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

All right.

I wanted to know how strongly I feel on this business of the military versus the other, you know what I mean?

And also, how strongly do we feel about that we have a special relationship with Latin America?

My own personal, you know, left.

But another thing, I don't know any of this crap about that we are interested in democratic regimes.

Stay out of that.

I'm interested in their policy toward us, not their policy within their own countries.

That's the next document.

Right?

Absolutely.

And besides, this is going to drive these military rulers to the left.

They're not going to become more democratic.

They're just going to become more anti-American.

Right, right.

I wasn't here like today.

Well, on that, I wanted to take a gift for Mrs. Nixon and Mrs. Velasco because of the following battalion on the Peruvian border.

Do they talk to each other about any other things?

I can take pictures.

There's a lot to do with it.

The answer is that we said that we had to go to Velasco, but we won't get you a picture when he comes here then.

You mean that?

But we don't have the date for it.

Medici.

It's in there, sir.

It's on our case.

Medici.

Velasco then and then.

Maybe a picture.

Yeah.

Do you want to go there?

I would like to.

I think it is a good idea.

I'll send you a picture.

A personal inscription.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, that's fine.

Whatever's your life on that, you work out gross.

But be sure that you don't give the damn picture again with a different inscription, different handwriting when they come here.

That's the only thing.

A special task is going to be set for the very 12th week of October.

How are we achieving more recommendations?

Well, this is important.

That's a good idea.

Well, the question there is, do we want to hear some run or not with some of his recommendations with you at the city end so we don't take your time?

Because whether this creates a problem for you, I talked about this, he volunteered to do it.

Now, whether you want to let him do it, take note.

I don't know, give some recommendations with regard to... Peterson's man.

Peterson's man.

Yeah.

He had this little task force that's come up with talking points and so on.

Yeah.

Peterson's got all that.

Oh, no, it doesn't bother me at all.

Anything you want to say with regard to that?

Now, you're in close with each other.

Just say hi.

And I think that's great to be able to say, look,

Secretary Connolly comes back, they have a plan, and that, what do you think you can say to them?

Well, presumably... Tell them what we said?

Yeah, well, I'm good.

It's going to happen while I'm there.

Well, we can't tell for sure.

It'll happen the day Connolly gets back.

I'll be gone ten days after Connolly gets back.

25th, 26th.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, we may have the words.

It could.

It could well happen in time.

But I can't say that we must do it.

I imagine it's, Matt, that you're well protected on that.

Now, what else is, uh, Henry, do you think we can do to get outside the box?

I, I just don't.

It is just a hand-holding operation.

We tend to let them carry the rest, but we've got to give them something.

Well, the point is that where I thought you were pretty frank is, is, what they're, I mean, is, is the, is the, you know,

They want the IBM thing, they want XM, as long as we've got the XM bank director for that region there.

And what I'd like to give them is a sense that, as we're going to put together, we want to have an idea.

Why don't you say Henry Kern, sir?

Well, Henry can't do it.

He wanted to come, so he's sending his director for that area.

What's his name?

Well, I can't hear you.

He's supposed to be brought in from the country.

The color probably knows more about it.

I think the color probably knows more about the specifics of what?

All right.

But the point is, if they have some sense of putting together a new package of having had an input into whatever it is we're going to do after now.

I don't know how we're going to say about the continued resolution at this point.

I would expect great confidence.

Your continuing resolution will be up in the House next week.

And I think it will be passed by the 7th or the 15th.

What do you think?

I don't think it will be, Mr. President.

I think it will, but I don't think it will be that soon.

Now the question will come, right?

Let's say we sit for two months.

You don't think the resolution will be passed by the 15th?

What happens then?

It may slip a day or two, I'm saying.

I don't think it will be that close.

I don't know.

At least in my judgment, you've got Ellender and Mansfield all playing games.

They'll come down to it, but they're going to sweat it for a couple of days through beyond the 15.

And so you're going to take it right up to the brink.

That's what Clark said.

McGregor.

So, but the point of that, again, will be resolved while we're there.

And I can say in the early stages that I have great confidence, in fact, that's what I'm going to say in our briefing next week, that we are going to get it because we have to have it.

No, listen, you're not going to have to say you have confidence.

You can just say to the president that says, okay, we'll be done.

I'm going to do an entirely personal report on that you have great confidence.

Oh, I just read the memorandum of resolution, as I understand it.

The thing in the house is probably maybe I'll go next week and then come.

Yeah.

Does he think he can get it through within minutes?

Yeah.

But they go then, but they don't see the vote being any worse than it was before.

Yeah.

Right.

What you do then is it goes to the Senate.

You're talking about, do you think that they're going to approve it all the past 15, or how, is that pretty hard?

Yeah.

a situation with regard to the Senate, and they will then hang on one of those amendments to the Congress.

Well, then the Congress then will have to, you see, that's the problem.

They'll have to strike a deal with the Senate to turn it down.

Yeah, that's the question, man.

Yeah, I know, it's a pretty, pretty good bag.

Yeah, yeah.

By the 50.

Maybe some of our slow loads now.

All in all, that doesn't change anything that we talk about here, does it?

Do you think that we're all right just to change the thing in terms of our day?

You know what I mean?

All right.

Yeah?

Well, John turned Cooper's non-existent as goddamn man and made him kill him to...

Yeah, I know.

They can't redraft the amendment.

There's no way.

No way.

That's always his line.

And you see, the problem is, redrafting is an amendment made.

Even if it were acceptable to me, it certainly isn't going to be acceptable to the House.

That's the problem, you know.

Those guys can't even die, and that's just wrong.

People can soar.

Let me ask you one other thing.

This is, and please say no.

It isn't, would it serve any useful purpose to me to see, to see Eleanor's motion picture or something to work on it?

I, I, I mean, I, would it help on this point?

That's my point.

If the old part, if it'll do any good, I'll do it.

But Henry's recommended it, but I just don't know.

I mean, I think it's usually good, but what do you think?

Oh, teachers, for Christ's sake, say this didn't happen in Rome, but what we're very used to this day out here in Egypt.

Well, listen, I'll tell you what I'll do.

Tell them I'll do this.

I won't go see it, but I'll have to speak to them.

I've already seen it.

It's just open.

Okay.

You go see it.

All right.

Oh, God damn it.

I think she'll go see it.

Okay.

Have you seen it?

It's a two-hour movie.

Donnie, I can't think of anything.

I'd rather not see this for the rest of my life.

This guy.

I think for a moment he's a hero.

That's actually an old park run up and down in Russia, the place that I've been to already.

It's a very old park.

Dirty old park.

It's a dirty old park.

And now Cooper, that's another bitch coming in and saying, Bill Rogers is having a new redraft line.

No way the president will accept it.

There's no way to redraft it.

I don't know what's happening.

If I have a continuing resolution, I have a continuing resolution.

Correct?

That's where we were last week.

And Cooper was perfectly willing to admit Cooper was quite happy on Thursday after the thing.

He called me up and he said he wished he had been my student.

Yeah.

I mean, Cooper is bleeding on it.

I didn't know that there was a problem with Steele in Connecticut because I'm Republican.

And he was just elected.

And he's pushy as hell.

He's the one that broke this drug thing.

And he had a hell of a thing.

And he went over and created his own campaign about excessive use of the armed forces.

But all right as hell.

Is he a Republican?

Yes, sir.

And by and large, he's voted pretty well with us, but he didn't track with his staff in terms of our tackling the program.

Yeah, I'll let you say he's attracted me to Tom.

Well, let me leave it this way.

I guess I have very, very confidence in what you, Bob, and we'll work out with Al and all this thing.

And Henry, of course, you can take a look at it.

But I think you've got to, you know it, it would take a lot of poetic license.

I would not, I would avoid probably a hell of a lot of public stuff.

I mean, that would be probably not too useful in the sense that if you got into a, you know, the whole press conference bit and so forth, then you couldn't, you'd gouge around a bit.

And you might get, I mean, it might be awful rough.

But I don't know how you can, I don't know how you're... We're not setting up a press conference.

We're going to see it in groups, small groups.

Yeah.

And on Saturday.

Thank you.

I don't think he will ever talk about it.

I don't believe that.

It isn't like Barack Obama.

He won't have the same visibility.

No, he doesn't go in with so much of a plan.

No, and we're not, we're pretty, we've posed up the dates pretty much, and we are going to set events where we have been invited.

We don't pretend it's a goodwill tour, it's a fact-finding thing, but to the extent that

It's clear that there's going to be a new, what people think is a new package, and they have a chance to give their input after a continuum resolution.

That's where I can make my list, because I'll get all that stuff in, and we can chip it through Henry and through State, and they can, you know, they'll think they've had something to say about what's going to happen in terms of the future.

You've thought for so long as to what we can do for life in America.

Produce so little.

Why don't we buy it?

Well, anyway, I think the crepe surgery was the first.

It's good.

And, well, you've got to stand to get that.

We have a, there may be a development here, which we do not know.

We should know by next week as to whether or not I'm going to have something in these halls, you know.

There's a specific case that I guess is going to come up while I'm there in Ecuador, go back to Ecuador, and that's the request that they've got in for 5F5s.

And so far, the state's been sitting on it.

5F5s.

Wow.

It's worth it.

They got the money, and they want to go on and out.

Why are we not doing this?

Because they might buy food.

Let me look into that.

If I could come down there and give them some insurance with regard to that, that's going to be wanted.

This is going to be a breakthrough for the whole, because they haven't had a, well, it was allowed yet.

We can find the goddamn French airplanes.

But is this Ecuador?

Yes.

But doesn't this fall under the military sales?

They've got the dough.

Yeah, but it's still a military sale.

The problem is that we announced last year publicly that we're cutting them off military supplies when they cease to ship.

And that's... You remember Raj just came over and they agreed to it.

And that may stand in the way of this.

Although we are in...

I'm in favor of their having, of their having these.

Well, I don't think he's going to make it.

Just say that you'll come back, and I'll look at it favorably, and we'll come on the ship and buzz it up and say it.

No, I don't want your encouragement.

There's no...

Yes.

Well, I can look into the... You would say they act.

That's the point of the process.

It really is.

One has to use it quite differently from that of their passenger or our passengers.

Well, and they've had such a miserable experience with those Mirage airplanes where they did go, where they couldn't buy from us, and where they did go to France, and the maintenance and everything else.

Well, three countries have purchased Mirages down there, and it's been a lousy experience.

It's not as personal a plane.

They're too expensive.

They don't follow up on their training and the rest of it.

So they really, like, hell, we trained all their senior officers after World War II.

So they went for the Czar Army.

How long are you going to be gone?

Three weeks?

Two or three months, but 13, 14 days.

Yeah.

It's a great trip.

Great trip.

You haven't been to South America, have you?

Yes, Peru, Chile, and... Oh, Peru, and Ecuador.

But you haven't been to Brazil and now Argentina.

Those are the ones that matter.

The only other thing we thought we, I know you talked to Harry then about this, and I talked to Dane, we talked to Bob, is whether we want to come in hard on some of this, get some backgrounders on the results of this election.

And I think we've got enough to talk about that we ought to do that tomorrow.

That's fine for Sunday, so.

Actually, the results are quite good.

But if they are, I can't analyze them.

I think it really would be important if we put it out, because on this morning's program...

The only thing that came in was Jackson saying that Kentucky was a blow to us.

Exactly.

The average listener or viewer got the impression that whoever won in Kentucky said that this was a direct defeat for the president, a defeat for his economic policies.

And nothing else was...

But the point is, the average viewer with good will at this morning's both Today program and CBS News, every other election they played strictly on its merits, and you couldn't understand it.

So it was a purely local election, but the Kentucky one, they played entirely in terms of the defeat for you and of your economic policy.

Well, the only national thing that you can point out is that every God-end bond issue that came up, that's not going to stay, which is the strongest argument I'm sure any of you have ever had, right?

And you had Wilson in San Diego, and Lugar, and Herb.

Yeah, Herb in Cleveland.

All supporting your programs, the revenue sharing and so on.

And Rizzo, of course, as you know, that was a long order.

I know, but we don't need it.

We don't use all the time.

He's the one we wanted.

He didn't want a long stretch.

So we want all the riches.

We wanted to win.

But that, I think, somebody ought to point out.

I would have benefited from that, you know.

That means a lot.

In front of all those mayors, things mean, they are what means things for the, as we all hope for, Cleveland, Indianapolis, San Diego, and so on until San Francisco.

Well, the point is, a big part of this was anti-busing.

Was he anti-busing?

You better believe it.

That was a very strong factor in that race.

A hell of a strong factor.

The fact that he was anti-busing under attack.

Yeah, well, the rest of it's a...

But the other thing is, you know, seriously, what about how a goddamn Democrat didn't win in Virginia?

Well, the Virginia thing has to stay in Sweden and get to that.

Just make our other arrangements in Sweden, all right?

Black power and all that.

Fine, that's fine.

I think, actually, of course, to me, the far, far most significant one was Rizzo's.

Here, long-stressed, very decent folks, did what so many of our people wanted to do.

The class, the young employees, we got the hell out of them.

You rank well for a Republican, we got the hell out of them, by a Democrat who was opposed to the governor of the state, or the primary, who was a this big Italian cop.

And it got beaten tough and tough.

That's right.

And we came back pretty well and alive when we arrived in the state of Indiana.

We did a little better, apart from Lugar.

Well, Lugar's dead.

Well, we got a ring.

I mean, I was a Jersey person.

Pat Farley, when they got caught.

When they got caught.

Yeah.

No.

But New Jersey, you know, we got held in both houses.

You know, we lost descendants.

They held the assembly.

Well, I know that the lower house was held.

We must have been assembled, right?

Oh, well, these local elections are always playing right through the bull's-eye.

I think Evers gave him clubs of a significant two because he was going to make a big show of them.

He wasn't supposed to win.

He was supposed to do better than he did.

Okay.

That is going to be one of the trickiest meetings you've had here.

I'm giving you a list that you might look over.

I think you ought to go on record.

Listen, of all the things we have gotten the Pakistanis to do, I'm putting it on one page.

When she says, we have not enough, you should, even if it's a fourth, just so that you can say, you pointed out to her, all that we have not been idle, we have every movement that has up to this.

Also, I just want one page saying, we provided so much for refugees, we've done this with the Pakistanis, we've done this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, that

Now, I think you ought to, well, try very hard to have a visibly warm attitude towards her.

Oh, I will.

I'll be conciliatory and respectful.

I mean, particularly when it's public, when she comes in and agrees with us.

Because she will try to say, if she goes and does something hysterical, that we may not do it, and that she was driven to it.

But you don't.

But I think the point you ought to make clearly to her is that if they are talking about autonomy of East Pakistan, there's no disagreement between us and them.

And indeed, we have an assurance from Yahya that except for defense of foreign policy, he's prepared to grant full autonomy, substantial autonomy to East Pakistan.

And that it's our personal judgment that this can easily evolve into independence.

But what they are asking of us now is to say the autonomy has to come about through negotiations with Muji.

Now, no West Pakistan leader can do that without overthrowing himself.

So in effect, yeah.

On the other hand, haven't we had insurance?

My primary assistant said that he was taking the programming in line.

She had gotten a pencil there and passed it.

It was a great idea.

My mother had apparently been there.

And he wasn't going to, he didn't know any better.

But he said he understood it.

He said that after this trial, I probably went next to them.

I said, absolutely not.

We haven't had insurance.

I told him that we haven't had insurance.

We have had insurance.

Absolutely.

Now, another thing you can tell her is, I mean, I just want to get her on the defensive, that we have stopped the military pipeline out to Pakistan.

We've done this with the agreement of Yahya.

We have.

But you don't have to tell her that.

I can say it's been totally stopped.

It's been totally stopped.

And that Yahya has now offered to withdraw his forces unilaterally from the border some distance.

So we've removed that fear, and she has refused.

You know, they are the aggressors.

Unilaterals.

This was done this Tuesday.

They don't know that he's already withdrawn.

No, but they've offered to do it.

Yeah.

Ain't returned for anything.

No.

What do you think they've reacted to that?

They said it's a trick.

They haven't reacted yet.

I'm not sure they've been told officially, but I'm sure they won't pull their facts.

Now, I have a list for you of what the Pakistanis have done.

And really, short of just surrendering, they've done everything.

They've replaced the military governor.

They've put in a civilian man.

They're proclaiming a new constitution.

They've proclaimed an amnesty.

They've offered to let UN observers in.

They've committed UN people on the ships to bring in relief supplies.

If you got down, that probably points to what she will be saying, so that I don't want to debate with her or argue with her or anything.

I don't think that's important.

Now, one thing she said that is about the Pakistanis claim there are only two million refugees.

She claims there are nine million.

I would grant her her figure.

I would go into the figures.

Yes, well, you must know who you're there.

And we are not, trust me, we are not challenging your figures.

Why is a refugee a refugee?

Or how many people will...

How much money have you provided so far?

Think about it, 200 million.

Oh, 200 million.

That's a hell of a lot of money.

But I have all of that now for you, and maybe more.

Well, I'll be just as kind, but she needs to affirm this too, doesn't she?

She needs, absolutely, she needs firmness on the issue that if she keeps, if they say only with Mujib, then they're in effect asking for a total surrender of the Pakistanis.

And that would mean to me that they want the bulls.

You've got a couple things to take home with you.

The market's up 1460.

Correct.

On 15 million shares.

Yeah.

Wholesale price index is down 0.1.

Forget it.

Good.

Again, industrials are down 0.3, which is a significant thing.

Farm and food are up 1.4 or so.

And the consumer foods were up 2.1, but they were down 2.1 last month.

That's just an estimate.

Unemployment is down to 5.8.

Old grade from 6.0.

Great.

That's good news on unemployment.

So you've got good news on unemployment.

The wholesale price index improves as the freezes work because industrial markets, which matter, are down.

Food, which wasn't covered, is up.

I didn't know we had the idea.

I knew about the market earlier.

You know, it's awful, son of a bitch, Henry.

But let me tell you that, you know what happened?

Our insurgents made a little talk, saying that we're going to have the dividends be limited to 4%.

And you know, I certainly got that idea.

They got that idea that maybe that was going to be the guideline for prices.

Well, not prices, but wages.

That's what he wanted.

That's right.

I know.

But my point is, that shot the market up 14 points.

Yeah.

But the economy's going to come out.

It just is.

I just have that feeling.

I don't know why they dropped the unemployment post.

They're trying to recompensate, I think.

Not only is the unemployment down, but employment is up $325,000, which is also good.

Oh, Henry, you know, it was really something that those casualties are only two this week.

Did you know that?

No, I didn't.

There's only four.

That's what I was told, yeah.

Two.

You realize that... No, we're going to have a theater week.

I was thinking of... What's that?

We're bound to have a theater week in the next... Yeah, well, I was just thinking, though, here we are a year from November 3rd, two years.

Cash is down to two.

Now, God, I have these lectures in the Senate.

I'm just sick of them.

You know, Jerry Ford, I don't, I held the phone so you could hear, but he said that Jerry Ford told, uh, I didn't, I didn't realize, you know, why did I talk this way, so I thought, okay, Jerry Ford and Les Aarons went out of here just then, and they said that's the best meeting we've ever had with the president.

I thought it was spectacular.

I don't know whether I said the usual things, but... No, no, no.

What did they mean to you?

Well, if you put it in a good perspective for them about where you were going and, uh,

I am convinced, Secretary, that you and I have got to do a hell of a lot of thinking about the POW issues.

I'll never forget how effective the Cuervo issue was for us in 1968.

That POW issue would be dying out against us in 1972 unless we are done something.

I am inclined to think that doing it too late is not so good.

I am inclined to think we have got to take some strong action.

I, for example, tried on Colson, but I said, let us suppose, let us suppose, Chuck,

We don't get a settlement.

Let us suppose that we come up to January and I have to announce that we're, you know, our program, our so-called final announcement at that point, which, of course, would be that we don't get a settlement.

I suppose, suppose I then accept the final announcement, but that because they have an intransigent, a POW thing that I have ordered, bombing military targets in North Vietnam.

He says the country will stand up and cheer.

The thing, the danger is it might ruin your Peking trip.

Peking trip.

So you'd wait down for two trips to go.

Well, maybe we should.

Well, I'm sure, because on the other hand, if you didn't do a hell of a lot of the bombing, if you just announced it, and just, you know, hit them every two weeks or so, there isn't a daily bombing.

What the hell did we do about those prisoners?

Well, let's not borrow trouble.

Let's wait and see what you find out when you go over there.

You never know.

Well, I would certainly call back the negotiator from Paris.

I would say I will not play this parade with the American people any longer.

Here is our negotiating record.

We've offered this, this, this, and this.

People were accusing us of a deadline.

We had offered this.

They were saying we haven't responded.

What do you want to do when you go public to say this?

And then I'd say, we can't play these games anymore.

We are calling quarterback.

Now, it's really my hell of a warning, Colonel.

I will say now, I want to warn you in this, Mr. President, that you have to resolve it soon.

You don't have to take other means.

If you're not ready, you can read 400 pages at a time.

It seems to me that the conversation that you reported last night was rather interesting.

That's what he said.

Mr. Quill, I don't think you can be sure of us.

It was well after the vote.

He said he had well after the vote.

They would have reacted pretty quickly.

But they would not, Mr. President, under any circumstances, say something that could get you that they have a program.

And that, yeah.

I mean, that's what the U.S. has stated, for example, the thing that had sold out signature was that everything they said, everyone else, this fellow was responding to what you had said.

This fellow was when we sent the message.

And then

The other is here.

That's it.