Nixon, Kissinger & Scott on Budgetary legislation and Vietnam War policy

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Yeah, let me, you, Scott, please, Senator Scott.

Casualties this week look to be fine.

Yeah, that, uh... Yeah, that's a great name.

I was terribly concerned about that bull market over there.

Got us in trouble with those people now.

Well, he's desperate.

You know, he feels like you do.

He says he's ashamed to be a colleague of these people.

He calls me up.

He told me, can I say that it's going to be going to torpedo your average day in the war?

And I said, yes.

I said, that's exactly what it's doing.

I told him.

Yeah, hello.

How are you?

Fine.

I was sorry.

I was going to leave you at the cabin.

I'm sorry.

Sorry.

Well, that's fine.

The way it'll work, they will announce this so that, yeah.

And then that way, we go forward for two days, do it on faith, and then you pass it on.

Thanks for your help.

We have to

I appreciate your help.

You are very much, very much.

And thank you all for doing what you're doing.

Don, you called the report, and I'm most grateful.

And you kidded me about the movie.

I said, damn, I want to see it, but I just want to... That's right.

All right.

But you know, I brought those souls in and I laid the wood.

I think you ought to do more of this.

I thought I was having a fight.

I think you ought to do more of this.

These fellows were afraid that every time they tackle you, they'll be in a bloody brawl.

They were.

They knew that they were going to be in a bloody brawl.

And that was gone.

That's it.

That was gone.

Well, what does Linkmont think of this?

Well, I think we're going to, McGregor thinks we're going to.

Shall I call him then?

McGregor.

Is that what McGregor told me?

I just talked to him.

Oh, you did?

Well, God damn it.

We better do that.

I'll tell you, with his name on it, such a great patriot.

Why, you know, do we have to have any more people?

That is it.

This is one of the things the Russians asked for, and it's better to send him than Peterson.

At least he won't free them.

I understand it was a disaster.

Who told you that?

Haldeman said it was the worst captain meeting he had ever attended, and he's attended some lousy ones.

Well, I thought that as well.

Yeah, it's better that way then, I'm sure.

But why waste my time?

Let's waste the whole Canada's time.

Let's all see what I go through.

Exactly.

The thing that concerned me, tell me about this thing too soon, because I don't want you to go over there Thursdays.

Friday you go.

Friday, yeah.

When do you meet Saturday?

Saturday.

This week I'm on that boat.

Exactly.

Oh, my God.

You go in your best position.

This will be popular now sometimes.

What, the continuing resolution?

Oh, terrific.

Yeah.

Great.

Don't you think so?

Oh, terrific.

We get the continuing resolution.

Hello.

I just wanted to tell you to go ahead with it, honey, because I'm tied up here with Senator Acosta.

You're going out with him?

Why?

He wasn't reading?

He was, yeah.

And how about, did you see the end of the paper?

Great.

And how was that?

And how was the, uh, the, uh, the TV?

Great, great.

And did you see Paul Peele's article?

And was that great?

Okay, well, good luck.

Have a good time.

Why did Lord Cromer discuss economic policy?

What did you think?

I don't think he is, except he said he had a problem with you, so I didn't support it.

And he says, I said, well, you see, Henry, he says just sort of reflecting some of the things which everybody is hearing.

I said, well, of course, Henry is totally trying to, that's what I was saying, the moment you came in, he's trying to, he usually sees the statement, get the credit for the stand statement.

I think that's the point.

You may want to get the credit.

He's very sensitive.

They're either trying to fight on him now because of all this.

When I sent him to Vietnam, I really didn't expect him.

He might be in the wings.

He might be a candidate.

And I said, that could be.

But he said, that's all right.

He goes to D.C.

He is a

But I just want to be sure that you, even if you call tomorrow or something, you can find some way to call in and reassure him and just say that, God damn it, he's doing a great job.

Absolutely.

But I didn't have the impression because he's a...

I don't have the impression.

You just got to be very sure that he doesn't feel that you are reflecting, frankly, Peterson or, you see me, or Rogers.

Well, he knows you reflect Rogers.

But I told him that I don't care where he puts these tags.

I don't care.

Well, I'll talk to him again tomorrow.

But I think he's got to move.

I really do, because I saw it with these Germans today.

On foreign policy grounds, he's got to make

Oh, we've got to move before then.

I know.

Oh, we're going to have to see if it gets recovered without having something to offer on this.

Exactly.

And I think he already deserves a lot of credit for what he has been doing so far.

He's given us, he's given us what we're going to get.

We're going to improve.

Hell, if we get 15% out of the Japanese, sure, maybe technically they ought to give us 24%.

But 15 is as much as their domestic situation can stand as before August.

Well, hell, before August 15th, Mr. President, they wouldn't talk revaluation at all.

I don't think he's much on the defensive now.

No, no, no.

What I mean is he's going to let these

He was very pleased, incidentally.

I told him you were going to write letters to the heads of state that he had seen, thanking them for their reception and picking out some of his poems.

Good.

I'm so glad you brought in the Pakistani poet.

Oh, it's fine, sir.

He did pretty nice.

And just as well, I didn't know where to bring him.

Well, he said he was very moved.

And he brought in...

Nice message from the Chinese.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

Who did talk to Zhou Enlai?

Zhou Enlai.

Zhou Enlai told them that he had great confidence in you and me and that he was looking forward to a constructive visit.

And you must say that it behaved very well in New York.

They've given no newspaper interviews.

They haven't done anything to embarrass us.

They haven't done taking any votes.

They could have come.

Can you imagine the Russians would have done it?

Okay.

Those crude barbarians.

Well, of course.

You'll see in the transcript of my conversations.

I told him it wasn't in his interest to come this year and in any event to be very low-key, not to give any fuel to the right wing.

And they're playing the long game.

They played a beautiful, controlled game up there.

What do you think about all those underground things that you mentioned?

That they're all digging underground?

Oh, did we?

Yeah.

I believe...

The Hague.

The Hague?

Yeah.

Was the Chinese...

He said the Chinese are 50 miles underground.

Yeah, that's right.

I believe that they are expecting an attack from the Russians.

They didn't do this when we were threatening them in the 50s.

And they think that the Russians are going to attack them in two years, two or three years.

And that's your best guarantee for a successful visit.

They're not going to blow it.

And they've paid a hell of a price for your visit.

They've gotten rid of NPR.

They've gotten rid of that army chief of staff who made all these unpleasant speeches.

We don't pick up any intelligence report.

I think, fortunately, you know, in a way, having this lab on our right wing is good, too, because they know I had some problems.

It helped.

What do you think?

It helped.

You always said it would, you know.

Yeah.

By God, that's... Mr. President, it turned out for the best.

All these people talking about shattering the field.

Who the hell knows into that shit?

Today, this aggregate defeat is a shattering defeat on foreign aid.

Balls.

So they cut himself.

It always comes.

It's a sign of, uh, we're doing well, and, uh, and that's what, and another thing, too, is these bastards have an excitement if you go up, down the hill, go back up the hill, again, it's good.

Oh, it's, uh...

I've got to just say, Lord, that just this constant, mad, bitchy... Well, the harassment of the President, I think, Mr. President, you ought to be a little more offensive.

For example, it isn't correct

If a major amendment, I would say at some opportune occasion, if a major amendment like the Mansfield Amendment or Cooper Church is put forward once in a session, there's full debate and it is voted down, then this would be the end of it for that session.

But to hang it on to every bill, so that every two or three weeks we have to go through the same problem.

Not only we, but all our allies have to worry about the fact

that somehow because there is a wrong lineup, they sneak it through.

I'd make that point sometimes.

George Allen, incidentally, mentioned that he had seen a very good, I don't know what the hell it was, some press comment on my press conference or something about how it was handled.

Oh, really?

But he must have seen it.

To tell you, I forgot to tell you, I found it in my notes.

Joe and I...

asked, got himself a print of Patton and saw it.

And he said, you know why I think your president likes it?

He said, I think he liked it because Patton broke the Convention of Patterns.

And I have the impression that your president is a man who likes bold moves and to break the Convention of Patterns.

I've found it.

I've forgotten it.

I've found it.

That's very interesting.

I have a film, a ten minute film of my first visit

which you might want to look at before you go.

That would be just the way, you know, it shows you how he moves and what he does.

Oh, you'll be there.

No, but I believe in it.

You know, the point was, Bill was making, you know, when I raised this point, they had to do it in the back of each other, and that's very similar to what you did that time.

But that's the difference between you and him.

He just doesn't see it that way.

It's like, God damn, to me, we've got to become so immersed in this Henry that we just think like David.

That's right.

And you'll have to be so much, because he'll be there without notes, because you were never there with notes.

I know.

But you'll see, he'll constantly change mood.

And you'll have to know, I found every once in a while, I'll just have to let him have it.

And then we can back off again.

Then you have to know when to be .

That's the truth.

I agree to give a speech for him at the University of Montana next April.

I agreed to it six months ago.

.

In his sweet way, he's been poor, honest, and obedient.

Well, anyway, have your time until I turn around just a minute.

Nixon, Kissinger & Scott on Budgetary legislation and Vietnam War policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on November 12, 1971

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Nixon, Kissinger & Scott on Budgetary legislation and Vietnam War policy

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on November 12, 1971

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Cite this conversation