Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 619 › Conversation 619-023

Nixon, Hogue & Timmons on Personnel appointments and Congressional relations

Tuesday, November 16, 1971 · 12:22 PM–12:25 PM ET · Oval Office · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Hogue, John H.; Timmons, William E.; MacGregor, Clark; White House photographerConversation619-023 on Tape 619 (tape position 02:23:07–02:26:48)StartTuesday, November 16, 1971 at 12:22 PMEndTuesday, November 16, 1971 at 12:25 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 619-023 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417179849 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with John H. Hogue, William E. Timmons, and Clark MacGregor to discuss administrative personnel, specifically Hogue's future role within the Treasury Department, and to conduct a brief photography session. The discussion pivoted to legislative strategy, focusing on the confirmation process for Earl L. Butz and efforts to manage congressional relations. Finally, the group addressed the administration’s political positioning regarding the Vietnam War, particularly the necessity of clearly communicating the President’s stance on prisoners of war to the press and Congress.

Audio

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NARA Description

On November 16, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, John H. Hogue, William E. Timmons, Clark MacGregor, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:22 pm to 12:25 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 619-023 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 619-23

Date: November 16, 1971
Time: 12:22 pm - 12:25 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with James H. Hogue, William E. Timmons and Clark MacGregor; the White
House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Hogue
         -Future role with administration
              -Treasury Department
                    -John B. Connally

[Photograph session]

     MacGregor

     Departments

     Presentation of gifts by the President

Hogue left at 12:23 pm.

     Earl L. Butz
           -Milton R. Young
                -Jack R. Miller
                -John C. Whitaker's and Tom C. Korologos's efforts
           -Confirmation
                -Clifford M. Hardin
                -Strategy

     Vietnam
          -Congress's possible actions
               -Amendment
               -The President’s recent announcement
               -Politics
               -Prisoners of war [POWs]
               -Press conference
                     -Gerald R. Ford

Timmons and MacGregor left at 12:25 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 2 minutes of this recording (about 52% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Mr. President, your poll gives me the chance to go to the Treasury for a half.
It's a good fact.
He's going to have a lot of congressional relations, so we're glad that he's working.
He's worked closely with Emma McGregor.
He's going to love her.
He jumped right into the middle of it.
Very tizzy.
We, of course, have an advocacy.
We've got to get what we're trying to do is to get the departments to do more of this damn work.
They have it all done now.
You do the work.
You do the work.
You do the work.
You do the work.
Well, we're afraid there's no need for that much.
And don't require it.
It's not worth it.
But I ask that we while we're here, one moment.
What is the journey at all?
Oh, yeah.
That's right.
Bill, come here.
What is the situation on this stand?
Do you think we ought to talk about this at all?
Now, there it is.
The actual fire issue.
I don't know if those guys were seeing each other or not.
They might be from a political standpoint, but the bus can't get them to me.
But I think you ought to put him down or something.
I think he will, sir.
Well, it went pretty well, Jack Miller, unfortunately.
I had to turn the bus into a hat for his own reelection.
John Waver and Tom Corlew were there, and they took on the part of Miller's team.
I know.
He certainly did the right thing.
Well, he just, he's a bunch of, he's smart.
God, does he, does he only realize how he bothers people?
Well, he's got it.
Well, he's got it.
You're here to bother him, aren't you?
He's a slob.
Well, that's good.
Well, we're going to have a real battle with the bus.
Yeah.
The perpetrators are hard to get to.
Wouldn't they have any money?
Oh, yes.
Would you agree?
Sure.
Do you all agree that at least one of you should be coming in?
Dr. Hawkins, you know who to take.
That's a little president.
Good job.
Well, with the bus, so if they turn it down, it goes to somebody else.
What are your feelings about the
It doesn't matter.
I have to take a hard line because we've got things going on at the present time.
That's even the one that was read to me is basically just like that to the president.
I can't do it.
I don't even call it this.
I'm out of here.
But if we go that way, we're going to lose it.
No, we're not.
And I don't think they have a straight line.
I don't think they have a straight line.
I don't know that we can control somehow, that some Democrat we can control, rather than offering a substitute.
You know, we've got a hell of a good case to settle.
We've got a hell of a good case.
We're going to go out and war.
We're going to go out and soon as they all know.
But we have to have time to do what we can for them.
And if they can, I can figure any man out.
What is the responsibility, verbatim, on the prisoner side, or anything else, on them?
I don't think you got that across very well.
I mean, Jeremy, if you repeat that to the press conference, after the meeting this morning, they show the press that, Jim.
Right.
All right.
Thank you.
Oh, you fellas are doing a great job.
Aren't you a great club?
That's a great club.
It's a great one.
Okay.

Also recorded on November 16, 1971

  • 619-018 12:16 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, James D. Hittle, John V. Brennan, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:16 pm to 12:18 pm.
  • 619-019 12:18 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Dr. K. Wayne Smith, Henry A. Kissinger, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:18 pm to 12:20 pm.
  • 619-020 12:20 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:20 pm.
  • 619-021 12:20 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Kenneth M. Smith, Patrick J. Buchanan, Lyndon K. Allin, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:20 pm to 12:22 pm.
  • 619-022 12:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:22 pm.
  • 619-024 12:25 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:25 pm.
  • 619-025 12:25 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George L. Grassmuck, Alexander P. Butterfield, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:25 pm to 12:28 pm.
  • 619-026 12:28 PM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:28 pm and 12:30 pm.

All 77 conversations from November 16, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 619-023, November 16, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417179849). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/619-023 (accessed November 15, 2026).