Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 622 › Conversation 622-007

Nixon & MacGregor on Congressional relations and Legislative strategy

Monday, November 22, 1971 · 4:15 PM–4:26 PM ET · Oval Office · 10 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); MacGregor, ClarkConversation622-007 on Tape 622 (tape position 00:22:26–00:33:32)StartMonday, November 22, 1971 at 4:15 PMEndMonday, November 22, 1971 at 4:26 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 622-007 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Clark MacGregor discuss the political implications of upcoming legislation and its effect on party dynamics. They examine potential strategies for managing congressional opposition and the impact of fundraising pressures on the political landscape. The conversation concludes with an assessment of the legislative timeline and the risks posed by party defections.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 2 minutes of this recording (about 18% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Is that, is that gonna be the old man?
If he does, then that'll give Matthias, uh, heat and sludge and stuff.
I think I'm gonna have to hold him now.
Well, you gotta hold up your thighs.
Boy, I swear to God, why does he do that?
You think there's really any chance to beat him?
It doesn't make any difference as far as the ego is concerned.
What is bad?
What the hell is the difference?
I mean, so it doesn't make a lot of difference there.
I can't see that at all.
In fact, basically, it's not that well-known.
It would be a hell of a lot worse if it were Republicans.
But there are more Democrats than Republicans.
Although Republicans probably have more sense to do it than the Indians.
As far as our boats are concerned, if you had it straight up and down, we still think you would pick up.
If you got all the revolving engine, that would be 44.
That would be 49.
I don't think I've got any other candidates.
I can't do it.
Yeah.
Close that joint.
Go there!
Mr. 49, well, you had a good fight anyway.
You got it.
Well, you still have a hole in the spot.
Yes, sir.
What is the situation as to after it goes, and then does it go immediately to Congress?
Is this the last minute?
I see.
And they go to conference and Mills looks up to them and then comes to them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, how did you see them?
I mean, you know, I don't think that's what they're looking at.
All right, all right.
Yeah.
Same thing.
You just don't trust me.
I hear you.
Well, it is.
You know, it's in a very different sense.
But it is, when you have anything like this,
It's sort of a check-off or whatever it is.
It's like the huge news.
It's like the withholding on income tax and the rest.
Why don't you have it?
They don't think anything about it.
So people, it would simply mean that the money goes, and then it will greatly strengthen the party losses, which is bad, too.
Don't you agree?
You know, of course, you're crazy.
The other side, it removes all the pressure of people that give money.
That's their argument.
You have it.
You're a fucking good fighter, I must say.
Yeah, but the Spawnman's in service.
He obviously converted on us, but here you...
I suppose so.
But he's afraid he wouldn't be the nomination, isn't he?
He didn't throw him out.
The herd is working on it.
Yeah, we're going to go out of action, that's for sure.
And isn't that somehow that whole line on the Southern Democrats?
Well, I guess it's an achievement to declare that you can get it forward, you know, on a party matter.
Let's say McLaughlin, of course, he's a sound guy, and Eastman's a sound man.
Sam Irvin's a constitutionalist, that's why he's doing it.
very various constitutions, that's for John Sennest to, yeah.
Well, God damn it, if you had to, you can't drop a month down.
There's no way you can go through that time again.
Just put it in there and say, yes, you've got a condition to do so, or else, I haven't seen the first one.
I said, man, it's a good boat in here.
Thank you very much.
And they lose.
Oh, that breaks the game.
That breaks the game.
Oh, hell, of course.
Yeah.
What would you tell him?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I guess that, uh, enthusiasm we have is certainly going to be, uh, to the end.
In fact, it'll, uh, it'll swell, I suppose.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Keep safe out there.
I'll be right back.

NARA Description

On November 22, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Clark MacGregor met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:15 pm to 4:26 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 622-007 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 622-007

Date: November 22, 1971
Time: 4:15 pm - 4:26 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with Clark MacGregor.

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/09/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[622-007-w001]
[Duration: 13s]

[See Conversation No. 015-100]

*****************************************************************

Also recorded on November 22, 1971

  • 015-099 4:07 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
  • 622-003 4:07 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
  • 622-004 4:07 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
  • 622-005 4:07 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
  • 622-006 4:07 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
  • 015-100 4:15 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Clark MacGregor talked on the telephone from 4:15 pm to 4:26 pm.
  • 015-101 4:26 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:26 pm and 4:31 pm.
  • 015-102 4:26 PM · 30 sec — unknown person(s) and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:26 pm and 4:31 pm.

All 62 conversations from November 22, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 622-007, November 22, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/622-007 (accessed October 1, 2026).