On November 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, unknown person(s), John B. Connally, Stephen B. Bull, Henry A. Kissinger, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:01 am to 11:40 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 623-003 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
I think the way you want to be played out is still a little bit hoping that you work out a nice score.
The other thing, too, I want to get a feel on is how the inevitable question will come will be, does the president agree with what Secretary Truby said yesterday on the Boer issue and so forth?
I think there may be a way we can...
handle that, and Secretary Conning may have a thought on that for a week.
Well, he was.
How's it going?
You're all back to the seat?
No, not yet.
I think you're going tomorrow.
Or if there's no one, I don't know.
I don't mind.
Sit down, man.
Ron must have got a fill-in before freezing.
That's right.
The first is on the tax checkoff.
I met with President Scott Griffin this morning, and I said to Scott, he said, what can I say?
And I said, you can say that you strongly recommend that the President be doing this bill unless it's made.
And the President said that he had serious doubts about several aspects.
was not going to be in a position on veto until the legislative process that had the chance to roll be completed.
And he strongly urged the House to, when the matter came up, to delete this very
Is that about the position of what we're leaving in now, or are you suggesting we go ahead and convert it now?
I'll tell you, just wait a minute.
Just for your information.
The strategy is to suck them off.
I'm not sure that we want the conference to be cleaned up.
In other words, we've got to be to a, let's be to a bad deal, rather than to, I'm going to get Burns and the other boys to, I believe since you're going to be going, I would, I particularly would like, I want you to tell Walker, whoever handles your shop, that I'd like to handle the strategy on this thing.
And that's what it's going to be, you know what I mean?
They want to clean it up too good, and I don't want it.
If you're going to get a veto, veto a bad one.
Do you agree with that?
Yes, sir.
Now, the second point is that we don't want to indicate a veto because, too early, because that could work against any chance we may have to get the House votes.
I think the chances of getting enough senators to go with us in the House are slim.
But there is a chance, depends on absenteeism and the rest.
So we want to run that course.
Having failed there, then the bill will come down, it would be my view then, to veto.
And that's how I've decided in my own mind I'm going to do it.
Even though there will be a, how long will it be effective?
This is the only rich people in the country.
So veto.
And then to, going further down the road,
It'll be toward the end of the session on this concept.
This will be the second version or second to be told.
And then call them in a special session and let them stay here right over Christmas and squeal and squirm and scream and kick and let them in the den, please.
They've got to pass this bill if we have it here.
But I don't want any of that to get out.
I haven't told anybody what I planned.
But having in mind that strategy, does that sound about the right thing to Rob to say today?
Yes.
Just to indicate that I'm serious about it.
I hope the House cleans it up.
Period.
Okay.
Now, the other point that Rob thinks might be raised is whether or not the Senate will say this.
The President agreed with Secretary Collins' description of these conducts as being coercion.
I think there's several others that have said the same thing.
what you say on that is that because we do not want to override in my opinion our
My concern about this is the, I would say,
Well, here's my thought.
See, I've been away for four days.
They're going to ask me.
There are all sorts of little things floating around like the White House asked for TV coverage of and so forth.
Well, Gary's been...
picked it the last three days on that.
Now, I could use this technique.
I could go out today and say, look, gentlemen, I'd go back and talk to the president about the situation.
He knew totally what he was going down there to do.
He knew what the audience was about.
And then put it on that case and see what happens.
Yeah, that's an environment.
Well, thank you all.
Now, TV coverage.
This was totally ridiculous.
We didn't ask the TV coverage.
The network asked us.
to try and Jerry Warren did what he always did.
He asked and it was turned down.
That's the truth.
The other way to do it there is to say, gentlemen, there's one person asking for TV coverage around here.
I didn't ask for TV coverage.
So that's out.
In other words, so that's true.
They did though.
They were the ones who were squealing to get on the platform.
The other thing is that
Also the idea that we were surprised that we tried to set up a hospital demonstration for Christ's sakes.
Now again, we were nervous and all that bullshit.
First half of the television, I saw that down there.
They can't, they can't, that's for sure.
But what did you just say?
The president knew before we went there that this was not going to be the most pleasant.
There's going to be everybody...
that the president on the other hand has stated his position there.
And I'm not going to keep saying that he's, and there's plenty I don't want to say.
He's stated his position and we're just about to engage in participation.
The president told the leaders this morning.
He said that the, and what he said in Miami, and what he reversed on, that the public in that attitude can no more be tolerated
a union leader in the 20th century that we have tolerated for hundreds of years and will not be tolerated from any special interest group.
What does that sound to you?
Let's get back to the deal set by you, Tom.
The public be damned attitude cannot be tolerated from any leader of any speculative group of unions
business, etc.
And it cannot be tolerated anymore and go on to say from a union leader in the economy sector that it could have been tolerated by the business leaders tonight.
You can see this little collar over there, but it wasn't supposed to be that.
George means now.
That's pretty much what he's saying.
They will try as they always do
a member of the president's cabinet, does very well in making certain points and so forth.
I feel that this is where they will then come in and try to separate me from something I said, a separation from the cabinet.
That's why this is a very sensitive point.
They were asked, does the President endorse, does the President feel the same way that Secretary Conley felt yesterday when he spoke his views?
Now, I can say one of two things.
I can repeat this.
I mean, I can say what we've just agreed to hear.
And then going to Southwark, Secretary Conley was given his observation of the situation in response to questions.
And that was his view.
I think he's not the only one who holds that view.
I just have nothing to add to that.
Yeah, well, any one of you has seen what he said from the editorials that are pouring in from all over the country.
The Secretary was basing his view on what he saw on television.
Put it that way.
Okay.
over this country, he seems to have a great deal of support for that position.
Now, then you say, as far as the president is concerned, the president is going to, is it going to be carried out as a president?
The president, gentlemen, doesn't characterize the press for it.
He's expressed his views on this there, and he stands on that position.
You can make the martyr out of him easier than the rest of them can.
Right.
The President expressed his news, he can't help you.
So I'm going to speak, but then I'm going to say what not.
Ron, Mr. President, think about it.
I've just used this as a bridge line.
Gentlemen, this morning I've talked to the president about the matter.
He's very relaxed about the situation.
He knew it was not the most pleasant appearance and he's going to
ever make, and that turned out to be the case.
There's nothing more to say.
Well, rather than, the President knew that, let me get a better word than that, the President knew that there, as he stated in his speech, that there were areas of strong disagreement with the audience, but he's gone to more than any audiences where he finds areas of disagreement, and he will continue to.
because it is his responsibility to state and to represent all people before any room, whether it grieves or disagrees with the person.
I'd lay it there.
I wouldn't get into the bathroom.
I would say, oh, it's not pleasant.
I'd say, oh, I didn't.
I'd mind if I enjoyed it.
After all, they were, they set it up, you know what I mean?
There's no more fun.
The worst thing you can do as an audience is all yours.
You need one.
You've got to keep it all to yourself.
Right, John?
Yes, sir.
He didn't learn it.
See what I'm saying?
I didn't say learn it.
I just said it.
More along the lines that I was totally aware that we as a president, I could just go back to my streets of presence.
That's correct.
When he was under, he disagreed.
And from this group, and he's superior for us.
And he will continue to.
And, uh, well, was he, you say, was he concerned or bothered by the fact that there was such a thing?
Not at all.
Not at all.
That, uh, there are all these, uh, you've met with him many times.
Don't say that you can't have a verse, but, uh.
That's the line I had.
The President was very relaxed.
Were you concerned or bothered about it?
That's right.
Talking to Secretary Connolly about other things this morning?
He's going to continue.
He's going to continue.
Michael is.
He's going to continue to speak out before any of you.
And we have the success, continuing success of our approach to stop the rise of the Constitution.
He's going to continue to speak out before any of you, whether they agree or not.
He doesn't
He suggested, as the president used the term, that it doesn't do any good for the preacher just to talk to the choir.
And he's going to continue to speak to groups that may not agree.
And some receptions will be better than others.
And he has no objections.
He isn't raising any objections about it.
He is not complaining.
Not complaining.
Has no regrets for having gone.
If you get it to over again, you go again.
He feels it's his responsibility.
Thank you.
Move out, son.
Well, I was so pleased with the TV the last time they used it to help, at least in all three networks.
I didn't see them.
All three.
Well, I didn't see them, but I read the news center this morning.
And they're all three networks.
We ran them three to five minutes, you know, on the TV, which is exactly what we wanted.
And I think you're absolutely right.
You've got to follow the route now.
And you know what happened?
Not one of the Democratic candidates showed yesterday.
They all claimed they had to be up here with that vote.
And they all were here with the vote.
But any one of them could have spoken at 10.30 or 11.
And still got here by 3 in the afternoon when the first vote came in place.
So I think it must be Dr. Kemp and Kemp and Jackson.
Don't you agree?
I'm sure they did.
And then they mentioned the chairman a day earlier.
I think you did exactly right tonight.
I think you stood out.
Well, I think I did right for a simple reason.
I think my reaction is like every person's reaction.
That somebody had to say it.
Somebody needed to say it.
Somebody needed to give voice to it.
And to cry at home.
And somebody in this administration.
Well, I did not talk to a single human being.
And I heard it, but I didn't like it.
He was, so he was overshading all that he was at work.
But he was, he's some kind of a man he is.
And everybody just is delighted that I took him home.
It's as if Mike Mansfield sent a message down to me through Scott that he totally agreed with.
What'd you say?
Mike Patsy.
And it's just no point in, uh, no point in letting him get away with it now.
He's been insulting you for, for all months.
Yeah.
He's been, oh, that's Mike Patsy.
He has said vicious things.
And he's, uh, everything.
Well, he's insulted everybody around here.
He accuses you of being a, a dictator lover.
Yeah.
And, uh, he, he's insulted, uh, Arnie Weber.
He insulted Judge Boone.
He insulted, uh, me.
He insulted even more, uh, Chairman
Well, I first called him a janitor, then called him a little league umpire, and then I told him, thanks, sir.
He just thought I'd get away with it.
I don't care what he told me.
He told me to get you off.
Well, that's ridiculous.
I wish it were, but I'm sure it's not.
I got him a claim, but, uh, no, I didn't.
I didn't.
He said, you got in a, in a real line.
I just wouldn't let him, uh, just keep running.
Keep running.
Sure.
Do you think I should stay on the boys?
You see, a president, just one remark of a president tends to make a mark on people, and it tends to reveal that the president can't fight with anybody because he's not even fighting.
That's right.
That's right.
You're really looking to him.
That's correct.
And it's a last-ditch, all-out war.
That's why it's very important.
When I did the next speech, I gave labor all the credit it deserved for areas of supporting a support policy.
And then in this case, it was a consolatory sale.
I said, look, we need a bunch of supporters, but believe me, I'm not going to take this.
I couldn't agree more.
President Pence had invited me on.
It's the awesome use of power.
And they tend to line up against whoever it's used against.
You tend to divide up on behalf of old John L. Lewis when I turn him on.
And you have to play a little bit of the martyr role.
It's not easy for a president to be a martyr, to be on that.
But you need to get all you can out of it by being long-suffering and patient.
Let others say, let others say.
My son, Rob, can say to you, you can't keep him from having fun.
That's fine.
That's a different view.
You said the best.
But I don't care to keep you from having fun.
No.
You step out ahead.
You got it.
I'll keep you safe again.
That's right.
I'll keep you safe again.
Well, I don't know.
We got a lot of coverage this morning.
I know.
The paper's well advised that it was the NARM's fault in coverage.
But it wasn't the NARM's fault.
It was your lie published, which reaches a great number.
But you had at least 40 figures last night for four or five minutes.
Now that's a hell of a coverage.
That's a hell of a coverage.
That's good.
Just great.
But where do we stand now, first on this day and then, before you, how long are you going to be gone?
You're leaving Saturday.
You're going to be gone in two weeks.
You don't know.
Well, three or five days.
Okay.
Wait, we meet on Tuesday.
I'm going to say I've got a practical second to go Sunday.
I would like to have one.
Well, I'll be in California, so it won't make a hell of a lot of difference.
All right.
But we just want to say he's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
He's a nice guy.
We're going to urge you to have a day or two to get over the trip and walk around and all this.
We have to.
We ought to leave Sunday anyway.
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
How many years did you feel, you know, I'm a great believer, even when I go to California, I don't like to have a speech the same day.
I wait one day and I'll do something.
Well, there's a thing that we can do.
See, Monday morning, I'm going to be with the Italian minister, Ferrari, right?
And then I'm going to try to meet with the Japanese, try to meet with the Canadians over there prior to the meeting, which again is on Tuesday.
Now, they're going to come with an offer.
But anyway, to answer your question, it will be on Tuesday, and I'll be back on Thursday.
Okay, well, before we get into their offering, let me come to the domestic side out here.
While you're gone, on the tax thing, do you agree with the strategy?
Yes, sir.
This one?
Yes, sir.
No, I won't pick it up.
You're on track.
Don't get caught on track.
You know, I think we're...
I heard you.
I thought that that's true.
And it's part of the politics of it.
I don't think the presidential office is going to make any difference this year on whether or not a deal is going to happen.
But I think looking to the future, when you start with that, that anybody who gets fired or signed a vote, automatically, you know that under this damn thing,
If some third-party candidate happens to get 5% of the election, then the Treasury's got to only have the money for that.
Well, that just encourages every candidate to go out.
It's pretty dependent.
You go out and spend a million dollars, figure you might get six million back.
You realize you have a two.
You could spend a day, let's suppose the person home makes some money, and he checked around, pulled a little bit, found that there was enough support for, say, the, uh, the, the, the, the anti-Baptist party, uh, that you might get as many as 5% of the vote.
So you work your ass off and run some demigod.
And so you get that paid out of the treasury.
Jesus Christ.
That's right.
You can have a black party, and you will.
You're going to have a liberal party.
You're going to have a conservative party.
You're going to have a second conservative party in New York, California.
This is apart from the law firm.
You see, you've got the New York, California conservatives.
We'll have their own party if they have this sort of thing.
You'll have a Wallace Party in the South.
If you're in California, Missouri, there's another.
You've got a Liberal Party, and a Black Party, and a Chicago Party.
The Mexican people want it, but the Mexicans don't.
And then it goes all the way to France.
And then you'll have the Southern Democratic Party.
because they get to go outside and watch.
Yes, there are a lot of decent Democrats out there that are not going to call an extension.
The Democrats aren't going to be kicked around.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
You know, that hurts the polls like a space of tennis.
You know, how I can see this other Democrat?
I don't know.
You know, under certain circumstances, I can see this other Democrat.
I can't get 5% of the vote.
Easy.
Easy.
Just think about it.
That's what my feeling is.
My feeling is that I actually want the tax bill to go down.
I'm not going to divide this into two.
But I have determined, you've got to determine, he's far in advance so you know what the game is.
I've determined, I've got to be strict about it.
Now, I've determined that the scheme is to do it the best way that I can.
What we have to do is to make an all-out fight.
You try to get the house to change.
There's a chance, but it's a long shot to determine.
If the house does not change, if it turns down, then we'll have to send out a veto.
Then the veto comes.
It's up to them.
Do they want a tax bill or do they not want a tax bill?
I didn't think, maybe that might touch on it, but I'd like you to give your opinion.
I think they've got to have one.
And if they don't have a tax bill by the time they adjourn, I'd have to call back the special counsel for the purpose of a tax bill.
That's rough, rough politics, but we need the tax bill.
We need the tax bill.
We need the investment tax credit, right?
No.
No, at this point, I don't.
I might do.
We'll keep the option open.
But I just can't see signing something that fundamentally changes the American political system without it happening.
But it's wrong.
It's the wrong way to do it at the wrong time and so forth.
I wouldn't worry about that.
It's a tough way to play it.
I believe that you have done so exceedingly well, and it's tough in a sense, but it's not the sort of toughness that reflects its thoroughness.
or an arrogance, because you're going to have ample justification for doing what you're doing.
And I think every person will be able to understand that.
And I think this is the type of leadership you're going to have to provide.
Yeah, the country is very strange.
to deal with in the country, you know, they have a lot of confidence in that.
And how does that, so what do you do?
I think one of the reasons they responded to just any meeting on a different level, they got so much sense out of that, you know.
Maybe now we have to do this, not in the entire legislature.
I think we do.
I don't think we have a choice.
If you don't, Congress will fall apart in a long run, and even the Trump one.
Oh yes, it's really not a victory that we think.
That's right.
We have a vision.
It's concrete.
It goes straight to hell.
Congress is a ridiculous staff.
It's a ridiculous staff.
It really is.
And the whole... You've got to raise a sweet guy, Speaker, but not a strong man.
The Republicans have not got numbers of people to lead.
The Republicans with the Southern Democrats.
Basically, what it gets down to in the House is that when you get a jury board,
and George Maynard together, you then have a coalition that usually can be responsible.
But without that, you have a tragedy.
You see Wilbur running for the Capitol.
He lost.
He did deserve this.
He needs to be responsible.
He's just bastard out of his troubles.
And what if he comes back to heaven?
And he'd be worried because he's got power.
Well, they have a Senate, John.
This is a disgrace.
Really, it's a goddamn disgrace.
I couldn't agree more.
I don't really think you have any choice.
First place, I think, is good politics.
Second place, the reason I think it's good politics is because I think it's good for the country.
I think the average person knows it.
That's the basis we have to put it on.
And I think that's the basis on which we have to push it.
And I think it has to work by the cavalry, take the rocky time.
So that's going to happen with the facts, I think.
But they have got to pass the tax bill, I think.
Do you agree with that, gentlemen, at the moment?
I think so.
They're going to pass the $200.
uh, repealed the excess tax.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
They all did.
Do you realize, for example, that the prison profession advised that we march to the party?
That what will happen there is that both parties will put on the greatest public relations in the world, and that we will march on a grand march to the public office or the check office so that they don't know.
It's no way to run the goddamn country.
It really isn't.
The other thing is that you and I both know this is something that is not good politics.
It's good for the country.
John, a man, a better congressman, senator, or governor, if he has to go out and appeal to the responsible people and win their support, the way you demonstrate that you can appeal to the responsible people and win their support is not to get them out to push doorbells, but to get them to pony up money.
$10, $25, $100, $1,000, $10,000.
The idea, for example, that it's wicked that a person has to buy, we all talk about big contributions.
Of course there's some big contributions.
But even in our campaign in 1968, I guess they had $3 million.
So you had the big contribution that added the $10, $20 million payment and $100, $100, $500 plus, you know.
It always does.
Now, that's good.
Otherwise, otherwise it means
that the people who are candidates for public office, except for the primary, see, the primary then, they'll just pick any goddamn movie star or whatever you have to do, because all he's got to do is to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and that's going to be him.
And I think it's good in a whitehall campaign that a man has got to be able to demonstrate that he can go, frankly, to the responsible people.
Let's leave politics out of it by going to the south.
John, you know very well that if you had this kind of provision, which they will have, for Congressmen and Senators, and I should have put it for Congressmen, but for Congressmen and Senators, you would have not elected as good a man.
I mean, for example, why doesn't he belong to that?
He used to be certain to know you, but he's a goddamn responsible man that made people support him.
He's a mess.
Take Russell.
All of them are supported by a sure, responsible guy.
And they always run against demagogues who are less responsible and don't get as much money.
And because they can't, the fact that they don't get as much money is not good.
It's really because they're not responsible people.
Isn't that pretty true?
In fact, it's good to have people who have contributed to campaigns.
That's right.
If a man doesn't have to reflect some responsibility in order to get finance, all you're doing is rewarding the sheer demigod who will get out and eat up the faces of people.
Sure, he'll say, you won't have to appeal to the so-called macro.
They all say, well, let's get various people.
Our cow producers, our cattle vending company, our oil people company, our business guys, the chain group commerce, the NEM, all the special electric drivers.
Well, they're a wicked bunch of bastards.
Yeah, that's the way it is.
How about a coat?
This doesn't, of course, affect them.
They'll still be in pain.
They'll be right up at their ideas.
What is involved here is that it will be enormously weak.
Basically, those special interests, selfish though they may be, who at least are very much more
in the interests of the country.
And that gray, polyglot group of intellectuals and others who come and hear Larry's jackass scheme and say, the president ought to do this and that.
And who have more information on the public.
And every person in this country doesn't know what's going on in the country.
Especially when these groups are all separate and all of them are very knowledgeable.
So you get many ideas that have to go through this crucial disagreement between these special interest groups, whether it's Coke versus DNA, or Coke versus the U.S. Chamber, or whatever.
But my God, they can just finance it.
And God knows you're going to be financed through the Treasury Department.
How do you get this out?
And can you establish the wildest democracy in this country you've ever known?
I can't decide too strongly.
People will tend to put it in terms of the presidency and 72.
You and I don't know.
And the NRA, wherever we visit, Teddy Kennedy runs Eastland.
You don't even get funded out.
Because there's another thing, too, which I think you've got to realize here.
If you visit Teddy Kennedy, the Jews are going to answer our point.
Because I'm up for the Jews.
Now, we're not going to talk about their happiness.
But you know goddamn well that the Jews will put up.
They always do.
They put up for Humphrey.
They're going to put up for Humphrey or Muskie or anybody else they run.
All right?
So there's that.
But what I think about is down the road,
I think about when it does go to the House of Senate.
Jesus, Keith, what a, you know, Congressman, a very low-formal identity right now.
You know, because they're getting more and more, you know, this idea of holding their districts to see what the hell they're doing, rather than doing what they think is right.
Goddamn, John, you just got to have, it's wrong.
Also, I remember when this country was first set up,
out of the 300,000 people here, only 250,000 voted.
And the founders did that quite deliberately.
They didn't have a property qualification.
They wanted the decisions made by the full, so-called better people than the voters.
And it was right.
It was right.
This country has gotten, frankly, less government that is not superior as we have grown in the franchise.
They're doing something.
The more democracy you have, the more mediocrity you can attract.
Look at the, for example, the Brooklyn and the Manchester, you have all that you need to work.
That, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,
Why should he vote?
There's no output.
That's right.
You know, these people are just like animals.
They don't have a vote.
So they determine the future of the country.
Well, I guess I say that the fight is sealed.
Well, I think it's wise to do that.
I don't disagree with it at all.
Oh, it'll...
It creates a ripple to the economic picture, but I'm not all that pessimistic about the second half of the future.
I think it's happening by next year.
It's going to be rolling along pretty good anyway.
I really am quite confident.
The tax bill will, if you have to, if you have to cancel it.
I feel it's a temporary coup.
It's a temporary coup.
That's all.
It's a temporary coup.
But God, he's always going to take those out of you.
So 30 days, and they'll get taxed from you.
I just, I've got to have, that's going to be the key thing.
I've got to check to see whether they will.
Well, we'll keep it open.
Well, he would have helped you come back in January.
They're going to get taxed from you.
They're going to have to come back with you in January.
They'll mess around all spring.
That's right.
And to that extent, they...
that may have an antigen effect on the economy for a long period of time.
I'd like to see, if you have any details, I'd like to see you come right back and put it to them.
And if I can't do it, I'm going to call the special session and try it.
I've never done it over Christmas before, but by God, we're going to do it this time.
It's just really terrible.
We need to look at what they've done.
Government reorganization, no action.
Revenue sharing, no action.
Welfare reform, no action.
Toll bill, no action.
Establishment reform, no action.
What a crisis they've been doing.
They've done it all year.
It's been a sad accomplishment.
That's one of the things that we're fighting up to.
Well, let's go on.
I had to tell you what I heard in Guam and Guam, Georgia, that it's supposed to be standing by in those areas.
I want to get here with you in person to see what we want, what the signals are, and then we'll put the others in line.
We're getting in shape to where this matter is going to be settled.
It's just a question of how much we can start a certain basic assumption.
We're going to be better off than we were.
We're not going to get all we deserve.
We can settle the international realignment of currencies, which unfortunately is not going to be too meaningful.
to the average American, because he doesn't, he doesn't understand that.
But helpful to the economy.
But it would be helpful to the economy, it would be helpful to the agency board, to the columnist, the columnist, the columnist.
So America is responsible for a lot.
That's right.
What I would like to get out of it are some issues.
and some relief on trade matters that can be important to you.
What you said about the $100.
Well, it disappointed us all.
That was a very clever thing.
You know, I just alluded to the conference.
It wasn't your government.
But it wasn't at all a good point.
That's right.
And it's unfair.
It is unfair.
We can make the bucks and just give them away.
That's right.
I don't want to give them away.
Sure.
Doesn't mean much, but it'll sound nice.
I didn't tell you all that through the California Board of Directors.
I don't want to give them away.
And those are two groups of states.
They're irons.
And so a lot of the trade, and that's the area where we'd like to hear some discussion.
If we can, and I recognize the business of working out things in the next 30, 60 days on trade, but if we can get some commitment.
The process started.
If we can get the process started, if we can get just one or two of those, which I think we can do, but what I primarily want to do is get it in agriculture.
I couldn't agree more.
This is where you go.
This is where you go.
and best use the support.
This is our heartland.
This is your great strength.
This is your heartland.
And no one has talked about computers.
Hell, there are a lot of other competing countries in the United States.
There has never been any.
And in automobile, we've talked enough about it.
We've done enough.
We've talked enough.
I could agree more.
But we've got to get this done in terms of what the Arab Americans can understand.
We've got to get this done.
to rush that office.
Now you have to sort of think, this is exactly what you need.
So this is why.
And talking to, have you raised this with any of these departments?
Oh, you bet.
You bet.
We've got everything over there now talking to them.
Yes, sir.
And we're pushing, and saying you've got to make them give.
And Dr. Osler, who's from the election, who was the messenger,
We're already ready this morning.
I spent an hour and a half with him this morning.
I told him, I said, we're talking about this common agriculture policy being in line.
You've got to give.
I said, you've got to give something on agriculture.
And so, and the Japanese and I talked about agriculture.
And they can give.
They can give.
Well, yes.
Mr. President, they are going to be not using this as an attack.
Again, because this is the Midwest.
This is your capital, the common country, the mountains, the United States.
It's all through the Midwest, the Pacific Ocean.
That's right.
No, they push it into the Pacific Ocean.
You know, it affects states, John.
You're the one, sir.
Black Florida.
Pressure on it.
It affects Texas.
No question.
It even affects the state.
Believe it or not, they tell them the whole thing.
They tell them they're an enormous disaster.
Boy, enormous disaster.
Arizona, Colorado, all over the place.
All right.
But what they did, they listed Dakota on the cage.
We're trying to shift the cage.
Henry Bell was wrong with this.
which one should catch Japan to feed them on that.
You shouldn't bring hundreds, hundreds of pounds of heads on their life and put a lot of them on the plane.
Well, what they did, they lifted the quota all right, but then they put a tariff of $135 per head.
Well, that's the total value then.
Now, this is just purely for the purpose of just keeping them out.
So what we're having to do is ship them to Korea.
And even in Korea, and they shouldn't be in Japan, and they don't need Korea coming for them.
No duties.
But this is a country where we need to take care of ourselves.
Well, they will.
You know, sir.
Well, I think they will.
It may take 69 days.
Which one?
The hammer.
But I'm just using that as an example.
Is it your deal?
Is it your suggestion?
I think I talked to Mr. Mark Green for some of these things.
Is it your view that you make a deal on the monetary thing before you get the ladder?
Yes.
You don't have to be a cool people.
You have to.
I see.
Because it's going to take us too long to make a deal.
But that's what you remember.
If I can make a deal on the monetary thing, you say we have a commitment that we will make a deal on that.
That's correct.
Then have that goose come later.
That's correct.
We can make as a government monetary deal a little greater than $2.00.
You know, you could say this means that America's products are more competitive abroad.
It's true, isn't it?
Yes, it's true.
Well, I haven't had to talk to you about it.
I don't know about it.
At least that's true.
It's true.
Because we've had it in the money.
That's true.
Now, Tom, let me come to something else.
What about before Georgia gets in here?
What about that gold problem?
Now, we're not...
I'm just saying, you're not going to have me see you as Paul Burns tomorrow.
You're not going to see me tomorrow.
We're going to put him on today.
Well, I was not responsible for it.
I didn't think we were supposed to do it today.
I've got work to do over here.
Well, I didn't show up at lunch with him yesterday.
Well, anyway, I still hang in tight.
I haven't said a word yet.
I told you, Mr. Waterfield, I keep a real good belief
And I put it to him, I just said, when I talked to him, I said, now, Bill, just let me talk to you in terms that I think you can understand in a certain way.
The question was, Rachel, are you going to be strong enough?
I had talked to him, and I think he will be strong enough.
He's independent.
He's going to leave the job.
He's wealthy.
And I put it to him on a question of loyalty.
Point blank.
I said, now, I said, frankly, you're a presidential appointee.
I said, you've got a strong chair over there, Dr. Parker.
I said, now, it's probable that most of the time the president and the chair will agree.
But what that bet does has an enormous impact on this economy.
They've been able to give money to us, money supply.
And I said, now, there will come a time, President, that the more cash you have over time,
But there will come a time when there will be issues on which he would like to talk to you, in which he would like for you to take a very strong position in support of his views.
And I said, now, the question is whether or not you have a sense of loyalty that's deep enough and abiding enough for you're not going to forget who appointed you and whether or not you will listen to the President and take his judge.
And he said, I absolutely will.
He straightened out.
He said, I, if there's one cause that I have, it is the cause that I'll never forget who it was.
And whenever he needs me, he's got me.
So, I don't know.
He's a liar.
Oh, he sounds good to me.
All he can do is judge about what he says and what he aren't.
He says he wants to do this.
That's right.
Thank you.
Oh, sure.
And have their Stucky's names known all over the South.
Actually, I don't know.
Even in Gettysburg, we've got Stucky Tanner.
Well, go ahead.
On the gold, I doubt it.
I've got to tell you this, man.
It's a crucial point.
And frankly, we in France have a phobia about gold.
Pompidou has it.
Everyone has, because they have told their people over a long, long period of time to buy gold, to hoard gold.
There's probably $3 billion held by French citizens, gold.
They just swirl it away.
So it's a major issue with France.
No question about it.
And France is our son-in-law, his whole son.
No question about that.
Now, they came in this morning, actually, Oswald did,
This is for the academy, the academy of academy.
I'm keen for a variety of classes.
They're going to make this a proposition.
They're branching the academy, move six.
This is branch countries, this is branch, German, and so on.
They're going to make this a proposition, which is to move the academy.
And they, now this is, this is off the news, but they're going to make it all the way down to the U.S. And they're going to come, but they're not going to come with us.
But nonetheless, if we take what they come with, we'll have a victory.
What they're going to say is that the U.S. has to be regretted, at least in... Oh, excuse me.
I don't know how to block these groups.
At least have our Japanese in groups.
No, this is all we are.
This is Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy.
That does not include Canada or Japan.
But they're going to make a proposition.
Now they think, there's certain things to remember, they think that there can't be more than 5% difference between the yen and the mark.
They don't think there can be more than 10% difference between the mark and the dollar.
They don't think there can be more than 5% difference between the mark and the franc.
In other words, if the franc stays right where it is, then the mark can revalue 5%.
It can go up 5%.
If it goes up 5%, they say the yen has to go up 10%.
So you get 10% revaluation of the yen, 5% revaluation of the mark, the franc stays where it is, and the dollar goes down 5%.
Nor do we need to value the dollar.
So that will give us 15% spread between the dollar and the yen.
We go down the line, they go up deep.
between the mark and the dollar.
We go down five.
They go up five.
So it's a tender.
Well, it'll be somewhere around where Frank's.
That's no problem.
No, he'll go up some.
And the Lira, the entire Lira will go up some.
So will the dealers.
I've got one little small thing to tell you.
I was talking to Billy Graham and calling you on this.
You know, he's a great guy, you know, so is politics.
Did politics lose a lot to him?
I don't know.
He was a great president.
He's got this stuff anyway.
He called me about it.
He had a Sunday about it.
But he just came in from England.
And when he was over there, he talked to...
And the barber, and he said, he was interested about the barber, and the barber said, you know, he wanted to go to some other cop.
He was the most crusty in this international movie that they had seen.
I said, well, I didn't agree with him.
He said that he...
Now, here's the problem here.
And again, we're just trading.
Now, let me go back.
Do you have those figures very well in mind?
Yeah.
Ten, five, five.
All right.
Now, for this, for this revaluation, they want us to go down five.
This means changing the price of the building.
So we go down five percent.
We value the dollar by five percent.
But does that mean that we then are going forward on the program?
No, not necessarily.
No.
We can change the price a little without going back to convertibility.
Do we have to get the Congress to do that?
Yes.
Now, we can do it.
With a resolution, we can do it.
But we have to have, I think we politically, we have to have a Congress to do that.
I don't think it's politically detrimental.
I mean, he taught us.
But I don't think it's that politically detrimental because you have all the economists, you have all the writers and economists that say we ought to look, you know, this is conditions, it's a false standard in the administration, very wise.
This is one where I think you have guys like Peter Rutherford just singing your praises and scores of who will say, you know, the goal is to change the price of everything.
So it's not that much of a political value to change the price.
Now, I have not told, I'm not here to give you that, to give you the margin.
I have said to them, we've got a fixation on that bill.
And if we have to change the price of the bill, this will be a major damage to this country.
And for that, we've got to get, we've got to get an enormous price.
Now, the problem is that they want us to change the price of the bill and give up surcharge for...
this realignment that I've just listed for you.
And I said, that's just not possible.
I said, it's possible this morning.
That's what I said, it's not possible.
I said, first of all, it's the realignment.
Second of all, you're asking us to go change the price of gold.
And do you then remove the surcharge?
And I said, all you're saying is that you will talk about it, trade that.
And I said, yeah.
So anyway, that's where we are.
Yeah.
My question is, really, how tough do you want to be?
Because we've made a trade.
I'd sell a second home if you wouldn't want to sell it.
Now, we don't have to.
And we probably shouldn't.
We probably ought to hang on to either the gold or the surcharge until we get some of these trades in session.
until we make them liberalize a little bit more, and I think we could.
But now, this is the fact.
There comes now into play the means that we're going to have to talk to the people around us.
Just thinking out loud, it might be to their interest
to let this sort of generate a sort of highest level, you know what I mean?
Could well be.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I just think that maybe we'll say, well, this is a matter that's great.
We can discuss it with Robert, and we can discuss it with Eve, and we can discuss it with the others, and then move that back about the time.
I don't know.
Does that make sense?
Yes, it does.
We'll have you be at those meetings two weeks each.
But frankly, I think, or would it be better to have it be done now?
I don't think about it.
Maybe you could make the deal now.
I don't necessarily say we should.
I think you could.
I think we could.
But we might not make it there now.
I don't think we're here now.
And what I want to do is again play the thing for your political parties.
You get the maximum advantage out of it whether or not you in effect close the deal so to speak with Pompey McBride.
It depends on what commitment you have when it comes to agriculture right now.
i think it could come out of that that a positive
that we're still not on the ground.
But we've had very awful discussions.
We've made some progress now.
There has to be harder discussions.
There's still some things to have, but that we aren't making.
There is movement.
Movement is leading to that.
You see, we've already had to get it out.
As you said, there are weeks and months behind the end.
or something like that.
Yeah, which is good.
Well, now that it's a practical matter, here's what I think we ought to do.
And I may change my mind, but I'll give you a scenario on this whole thing.
I think we can get there.
Or maybe, but we've been long satirical.
They were born to me.
I was older.
That's all older.
Older, fresh college.
Did you live with them?
Did you live with them?
And they've had a daddy's meeting Monday after Monday.
And the minister accused me of it.
And we probably, at the, at the daddy's meeting, offered that awful book.
Announced.
Something.
Let's assume, among all the people, we were there to get one of those.
let's assume with the surcharge let's go through both so i'll just take an example let's assume we said we'll remove the surcharge give me again now we got another 17 percent rush to you is there a possibility
It was all 5%.
Oh, yeah.
Something like that.
It took 5% off for this.
So much of a percentage of life for this without the other.
What I think I'm going to recommend to you before we actually leave from Europe is that we recommend, say, we will submit to the Congress a change in the price of gold for 17% realignment of the end.
12% realignment of the market.
a 4% re-evaluation of the frank and so forth.
And we will devalue the dollar by 4 or 5%.
When we change the price code, we'll submit that.
And we will remove one half of the surcharge immediately before this realignment.
And we will remove the remaining part of 7.5% or 5% of the surcharge when we can get concessions in the following year.
or we can save all the surcharges and say that we will retain the surcharge for 60 days, taking an effort to reach agreement with respect to trade matters.
And that's possible.
And we can reverse it.
We can say we'll give all the surcharges for the realignment and save the gold thing.
But the friendship bug, the gold thing relates
Hey, let me ask you this.
When we play this, it's the left that gave them an old thing called a meat pocket, and they'll give it up this one.
That's right.
Now, that's what I was going to do with that.
That's correct.
That would be more reasonable.
I just think it out loud.
I agree with you.
Now, the point of the issue,
I don't think, I won't think about it, but I don't believe that giving on the go is a political identity in this country.
Why?
But you see, I don't want you to have to give on the go to Pompidou.
Can you get nothing for it?
Oh, yes, I agree.
I take it.
But you've got to get that side of the house.
Well, we have to.
If you give on the go, if you're being Pompidou and Grant and so forth, then they've got to give on the commoners' budget box.
or at least make a commitment to do it.
Now, they, frankly, I don't think they can do it.
Samaritan's good, but they can cure and support their country to do it.
But here again, we're in a little different position because we're bargaining a strict and monetary amount for a trade issue.
Gold and the price of gold is directly related to the real amount of currency.
The surcharge is really related to trade.
Now, we can make some all right.
There's no question what we can make.
And that's why I keep talking about burden sharing, trade, and all that.
But the net idea is that they're coming to dust now with the Proposition.
it's not good enough i think we ought to get them with the proposition first probably more money and we'll refine it and i'll talk to you again tomorrow and talk to george
Now, where does George stand on the whole thing?
George is not a leper.
George is very comfortable with this.
Now, he's trying to go, well, not particularly, except, and I talked to him late last night, I said late, about 7 o'clock, about the goal that we had talked about, making the proposition to him that we'll remove the surcharge for this reliant on currency.
Did it occur to you last night that
We probably were not going to succeed because of the French intentions on gold.
I think they are.
And hell is, we don't have a letter on it.
Our problem is with Germany.
Germany has no, Germany would bring less than me.
Well, I'll let you get the credit.
uh he'll be delighted to do it yeah i think he's the one that's going to be royce and james i don't have any questions about it he's been pumping into your historic bills to try to indicate that because burns has totaled some of the europeans that the congress will approve the change across the bill it's not that big of a deal so
At least in my own mind, I'm satisfied that he's the moving force behind Royce and Jack Sage.
He didn't bring this up, I don't know where it comes from.
But he's making the right choice.
I can speak for myself tomorrow.
But frankly, I didn't agree with where that's the position.
I just wanted to know how much we can get and how we play it.
i am not going to bargain at this point and when i say i don't uh you understand when i say that and i couldn't care less i've been talking about it i don't hate to see the bargain uh away the changes in the press code and the search charge or any adequate realignment i just think we'll get on that and it's just not any point unless that's where our group is
Well, that's where I see the other issues.
That's right.
The real money is in the real island.
Sure.
Not in the credit issue.
Sure, I understand.
But the politics, the American politics are in the credit issue, not in the money line.
I got it totally.
I understand.
I understand.
I understand how important the arms and their uses are.
I understand it totally.
So that's where the job is, and that's where it's going to help us.
That's right.
But it's not going to help you next year.
Not where today.
Not going to help you at all.
We'll still be running debts this next year, and this is the thing we've got to remember.
And so this is why I'm trying to get some of these trade events, because they will have the impact next year.
The realignment of currencies, and as far as our policy payments and returns, are going to help us with 73 and 74, unless these countries change again in the meantime.
So I just want to kid ourselves that when we get this realignment, we'll get a victory, a major victory.
But we're not going to get any particular results.
in terms of trade, because it just takes a damn long for the machinery to work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you talked about, we asked you about one or two things before we even started.
Another subject is the monetary policy.
Have you been?
Have you been?
Yes, sir.
I talked to him the other day about it.
He said that they had an open market committee, and that they were going to start the divestment.
They were going to start easing the divestment.
He said he...
He said what?
He said, where's the Broadway?
He didn't say.
He said Broadway.
Oh, yeah.
Well, we're going to have a heat him up account tomorrow.
Because I heard that's not your thing.
I'll have Roberts put it in the morning.
I already did yesterday.
I'm going to do it again.
You heard Todd.
I'll just say this.
I agree with Todd.
In fairness, he should know that the president is, even after Roberts' appearance as the PR, which is true, that he has had some
very, very heavy pressures from his friends in New York and where he's staying, where they've just gotten the dry-supply thing to stop on the track instead of a lot of that.
And he's going to hit you on the heart today.
He must have told you all that.
Put it that way.
I've got to keep him on the heart.
Because it's true with everybody else.
He thinks everybody else there can do exactly the right thing.
Well, actually, we all in the future here are friends.
The trouble is that our groups have tried to get into that same bad box that Jeff Martin has put down as the guy that saved the dollar and the hell of the economy.
God damn it, we'll save the dollar.
What's going to really save the dollar, Thomas?
You must really have this economy move out of it.
That's correct.
What's your next step?
Productivity.
That's going to save the dollar.
The only thing that's going to save it is your domestic economic programs.
That's right.
And it's successful.
The other subject that we will discuss is this whole value-added thing.
As I told you, I think we have to go on a major, major thing here.
I also feel that
but I do have a few second thoughts about yourself.
No, I don't know.
Eddie Cohen has very strong views about taxes and gas.
I think that's a great mistake.
I don't concur with that.
I don't think it's, I don't think it's that much of a mistake.
I think, again, it's been followed.
What else should I say?
I think...
I think it has to be guided somewhat by the whole posture of the budget.
Does it look like we're really trying to be physically responsible or not?
Or are we just putting on more taxes to fund more giveaways and so forth?
If that's the posture that we're in, then I would, I might have second thoughts about the agri-factory down in the west where you could have a fiscal year's budget.
You could have it.
postulate as being a physically responsible move, then I think the American people will buy it.
The Japanese speaking, I don't know if any of them, John Alexander, your former tax preparer, all the tax boys and kids are changing the system.
But the system sometimes has to be changed.
We'll see.
And I don't know.
As a general matter of political doubt, I guess she always had to say that she never taxed him in the election year.
You're not going to get it next year anyway.
You're not going to get the tax.
All you're going to get is a compensation.
But at least it was permission.
Yeah.
Now, I, uh, I probably feel a little difficult about this period.
I had one or two years as governor.
And each time we had such elections, I, uh, each time, I had to act.
Every single time, I had to act.
So, I'm afraid of this, as most people are.
But again, having been around for 20 years, we have a tax bill, a rule of property tax.
I wish we knew each other, but I don't think we do.
What do you want to do?
I want to talk one word about India, Pakistan.
Those things are happening all the time.
And you're very worried.
There's issues of some, you know, this, this, this, this, this, this.
We'll probably get a call from Raj, and I want to hear what the issues have been.
As I heard you touch on Pakistan, the India-Pakistan thing, on these issues, we should tilt more towards the Pakistan side, on the ground that Pakistan has been helpful to us, that it is a branch of China and the South Continent, and has been a friend of ours, and that maybe the Soviet-India strategy
to communicate to the country that's being helpful in its respect.
Also, they need to be seen for this again.
On the issue directly, the Indians are going to have a lot more of all the facts and so on.
There's no question about that.
And that idea has to be
I believe they need to be addressed about almost every suggestion we've made to the parties down in the state.
Every suggestion we've responded to about a very important issue.
That as these cases develop and have only been running in here, with every, with every active issue in here itself, they should tell the public that there's some consequence.
They should at least position what they really know is going on.
They know we can't do anything.
Secondly, being that, A, if you do do India, it's just going to be counterproductive because it makes the international world faster.
And thirdly, the only thing is that there has to be a political solution, and for that it should go to the U.S. My view is,
I don't think the Chinese in New York do not, as you know.
If we go with the U.N., we should go with the determination that we believe more in the Chinese than in the Soviet side.
We don't want in this, in this issue, in their first and count of a dozen security council on an issue where we're dealing with a country that set up the threat to participate, in effect, that do not, obviously, have the effect of raping Pakistan because of
I put it all in the terms of Donnie and Rodgers' statement.
I just put it all in the terms of my candid judgment as it is for Donnie and Rodgers to put it on there.
I agree with you on that.
But that is also part of the real basic reason.
It's not that it's our fault.
Thank God.
That's the reason, though.
Asking dead people to dispose of some of his or Patrick's data.
Sure.
That's true.
We're setting up a trap there.
We're just trying to do it the other way.
Well, that's hilarious.
Don't argue with your ground.
Don't even get out there.
As I was saying, I think some of these people are going to just be blind as hell.
We think the Indians are more involved in the Pax area than what America is going to do.
Do you understand?
I don't see that they want to go that way.
They're very good.
Do I have to come up?
Mr. Bishop, I'm not supposed to.
He's going to put it on the ground that we can't do anything, that we ought to pass it over to the UN, that we ought to get it to the middle of all of this, all of this is true, but the proposal is the issue is whether we should get it to the middle of it.
The issue is whether, by accumulating a number of nuances, we can keep the heat on the Indians.
To discourage them from going after that oil, we could
For example, we helped the British out on Rhodesia yesterday by sending a message to the Rhodesians at Deedsford West.
We can tell the British that they should help us out by waiting for the Indians.
If we keep pulling out the word that there's nothing that anyone can do, there's only one option, which is a military occupation of East Pakistan.
There may happen anyway.
What is the problem with Roger?
He doesn't think we should do it anymore.
But just do it.
Don't do it.
Don't say a goddamn thing.
Why do you have to do it all that way?
In the end, where is it?
We would always say it's a mistake.
It's not a problem.
Well, we had this special action through the...
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
In Mutsi, their first proposal was Indian attack, the will of Pakistan to release the client.
They felt the threat of that would keep them attacking.
They had us to do something in the end.
But as the issue has come up as a series of 10 different answers from 10 different countries, and this, you know, looks like the sort of thing
You have to use him.
If they all drift with it, if all the actors in the air get humiliated in a certain way, then themselves to close up our policy.
Well, why don't you do it?
I think you need to do it.
There's no reason for this to have an unnecessary confrontation with the property.
I think what we ought to do is this.
Just tell them about that.
I had proved all tables anyway.
And I just told them to pay for the emptiness of the tax.
Basically, because that's why I believe I told the prospectus over there.
We had a meeting, and I told them that before.
That's the way it's going to be.
Now, my view is that the idea of, and then the idea of, are we giving in or not?
I say we have to leave.
We want to avoid getting in.
Oh, yeah.
But get in.
See what I mean?
Get in the way that we want to here.
See what I mean?
I never said move nothing at all.
I'm not aware of it.
I found out this morning that while they brought out the military supplies to Pakistan, they're keeping them going to India.
I didn't know what that was.
I don't know.
I haven't.
But I still think very strongly that we've got to play the hard line with the Indians.
and then at the UN.
Their basic position is that they will maneuver among the various parties and see what emerges of nine out of eleven of these members of the Indians.
And, uh, I'd like to gather facts of what we wanted in the U.S., and I'd like to work on a procedure ahead of time with the Chinese.
We're going to get signed back then.
Now, we don't have to take our categories.
I think that's what we want to see changed first.
No, but I pushed it along so we can work it out.
That push can recommend could be more.
It's got to be the needle, can't it?
Yes, sir.
Then what's the demarcation to the needle?
Not yet.
We've got all these tools.
That's what I saw.
That push can make a recommendation.
They have to conceal.
You have to do that.
And that push can make a recommendation to the other.
which is, it won't disregard the Bush trip.
So my hat won't show.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
And there is no confrontation between me and Bill in the House of Commons.
But there is.
And every one of these pleas is an incredible situation.
It's like pulling teeth to get any tables read out.
And then to get these cases written in such a way that they're not in fact taking on the excuse to do more than it really is.
Because if you get back to the political conditions in Pakistan, you're ready to be an idiot.
And Candace, what happened with Candace's gang?
He was going to let me know yesterday.
I could have called him.
He said, you know, I've got to get Candace for a deal.
That's one of the things.
I've moved the case to a few weapons.
He asked me what my view was towards his seeing Mark in the Swiss movie, saying he couldn't see him.
No, no, no.
There are no circumstances that we've seen any damn prime ministers, not at all.
We're not seeing them.
Yes.
Yes, there's no way we're going to see them.
No, I guess I want to take questions next, John.
I don't think that you guys should be around when they're seeing prime ministers.
Oh, no.
Not a certain group, actually.
Well, I've been alerted to it.
I've heard it.
But what the hell is it seeing even non-ministers for?
Mr. Bill, I think I was taking a trip into it, and I got there.
I don't think, I don't think that we should have done that and listened to the Vice President.
I think we've got to cancel his contract.
He doesn't have a good job.
He's got a stable and a second grant for his job.
That's the only thing I really think the next person that should be on this job.
I said, thank my God, is he going to do that?
I didn't hear anything about any trip that he'd come to.
I said, who?
Well, he told me.
I said, I don't know.
I said, it's the president.
Oh, the other guy.
Well, I said, I think what we do is this.
I think you've got to let him in on the game and say, you know what I mean?
He's a little naive anyway.
I just go ahead and tell him.
You've got something.
The top secret here.
The president's going to meet with the heads of government on a buttered bus.
At this time, it would be an unfortunate thing
Well, who in the hell would use to go to Europe to see economics?
I suppose we heard that 100,000 times.
They just can't do nothing.
I want you to get the whole continent stacked together.
There's going to be no more trash.
You know, I said that a bit previously.
No, but not only in Canada.
We're going to clean all of it, too.
I was this morning in Charlottesville.
I was in Charlottesville last night.
I went to a dinner and sat next to it.
Peter's wife, who inadvertently mentioned to us that Peter was going to hear a good story she mentioned this morning, is going to turn off.
That was the first thing she told us.
The first thing I was going to say to her was, turn it off.
Whatever it is.
Yeah, he's coming here.
Oh, that's all right.
Yeah, so it's .
That's fine, but .
Yeah.
Unless it's all came up, like, two hours, all right.
But then I suggest this.
What happens now is Henry, bring Pete into your office, or George's, you and George, and tell him about the announcements that are going to be made over the next week.
You know what they did.
You want to do that because George doesn't know about it.
Yeah.
And tell George, too, to say that if you set this up, that this super, under these circumstances, there are going to be no directs by anybody at this time.
I agree, John.
I agree with you.
Okay, all right.
Then you should do it with George and the charge at the same time.
I want to hold it to Chels.
Chels was just going to tell me to speak with him.
All right.
You just call him up.
You hit it right away.
I mean, you tell him, I don't want to be bothered with this.
Goddamn, we got it in there.
We all got a job to do.
I told him right then, you know, I said, I'll get the hell out of this other deal and start contacting your fellow George.
And George was directing her dialogue.
He had no contact with the foreign people and all that.
And then it disappeared only from his watch last night.
Oh!
Well, he said, I'm going to see Prime Ministers.
Jesus Christ, he was.
But if you see Prime Ministers, they realize that he's ahead of them.
And they're going to get into this stuff.
Sure.
And he didn't talk about anything.
Let me see.
I think that as far as our case is concerned now,
that there's no need to have any further discussion on this.
Would you, would you think that tomorrow that you might talk to George any further about George and Andrew, the three of you, and I thought, well, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to, we've got to,
Are there people in the press that we all need to have?
All right.
Well, we all have to go now.
Don't let it get beyond that group.
I have a lot of views on that.
Henry Schultz, I haven't really heard him since he hasn't been here in about so long.
Should you and I have our talk before that meeting right now,
I've said it before, and maybe you should say it a lot, but I think I've had an incredible amount of callings.
Callings from me, and Adrian, and Joe.
I think what we'll do, we'll set it up, and I'll see, I'll get our order, and sometime in the morning.
Your schedule can be quid pro quo, but that's your, thank you, with the free, your free, that's our picture, kind of strategy, and we'll have a meeting tomorrow, and decide where we're gonna go.
That's very good, John, that's a good point.
I have to tell you that I don't, I think I really want James Nelson.
If I didn't come back today, I think she'll look good too.
I think you proposed it last time, John.
It is my judgment that what is going to be delivered to you in these various countries.
The thing that I have to do, Harry, there's one point of this.
We may not price the vote, but have a suggestion from John.
Rather, while he can discuss that in this room 10 meeting,
that the time to give up would be... My instinct is...
I agree.
My instinct is that Charles should start with the rule, Henry.
The way he described it yesterday night.
Starting with this, so Charles would get three values.
Then, when they start screaming about the price of gold, then I think you might approach what we're doing this time, please.
Because I walked in between the two of them, you know, between the two of them, two of them sat with you.
Mine wasn't interested.
I could give something, but you had to give something, and then we'd keep the conversation as that search starts.
If that's what you're still saying.
And we'd give a little money.
guys involved, and I think that deals with how popular it was to be back then.
It was a good house, but you know, I had no chance to tell you because you left my office before I came over here.
Most of them didn't give in.
And they're coming, they're going to be forthcoming, and they're going to reach a realignment.
They're going to put forth a proposition that's true for ten weeks.
What was that like?
It was horrible.
Now, with it, in those bills,
it's not the right thing i i frankly i'm willing to go along with the other scheme as a proposal but my instinct is that it won't go well i'm with a good bargaining position now the question is at what point we more suddenly this is where it's going to say you know we're afraid of that thing to say about who who says what point in time and again
I think you're right.
I think we discuss it so that probably we have something that he gets from his people and us.
We've got to have something that we can create with Eve and someone around.
And then we turn it back to John, and that you work with him, he'll be a lot.
Eve to the three.
Absolutely.
That's what I think.
And then I think John should work with Eve a lot.
I mean, the point is that then, what we must face over, the egos of these guys are involved.
Let's let them have a talk and take care of them, and we can make a decision, see, if they're contributing to us.
And although I agree with one or another group of tenants, basically, we have been forthcoming, and they have been forthcoming.
We're still apart, but we're going to continue this discussion at the highest level between the three major governments and the United States.
And then the prospects for a settlement are good, and the bottom line is that you put a settlement in there.
That's what I think about it.
Well, that sounds fine, too.
If I ever watch them, I mean, definitely, if they were walking,
I think it would.
And of course, most of your leads are going to be announced before the G10.
They're all going to be announced by Sunday, John, but it's impossible to assume that they're going to do it.
Well, I don't know.
And also I think it will get enormous, which I want enormous.
So this is just going there and cracking up about their usual political problems.
One thing you need to think about, you're not people to go, you're not people to suffer.
The thing we have to be careful with is that in the international humanitarian field, we don't look entirely to Europe.
Well, it's not a good message.
It's not a European credit message.
Either by phone or otherwise, but you didn't know, you didn't stop them, or some messenger or some means that they, that they're calling you.
Well, I don't know what you're saying.
We've got to say it loud and clear.
How the hell have we been meeting?
We've got to go.
Oh, yeah, I have.
Yeah, I've met these folks.
I'm going to stop them when they send me.
Yeah, that's all.
I've raised the point.
We don't want to do that.
We don't want to do that.
But if this goes, no, I can't do that.
What I say is, I think we've got to get the message subtle with regard to the meeting.
I think that would be very helpful for some to know, and to say that I will keep you closely informed on these meetings, and we look forward to, and the secretary of course has already met, and the secretary is going to be there.
What else can we say to some?
We don't have a, there's still help to be made.
I think it gives us a little bit of a break.
Sure.
Well, what Kang has said, we will keep him informed.
We'll be, you know, we'll close this council today.
We will talk to his representatives here at any time.
I love that.
I think that informing him in advance is very important.
Now, with regard to the truth of it, I just, I can't call that something that I'm just going to do it.
Somebody else can.
That's that right, Richard?
No.
Good job.
It is an international moment.
You might fall to the bottom of my floor.
I call Mr. Adam.
I'll tell him no.
I'll call you.
I'll be like, I just have to get to the deal with him.
The President wants you to know that these meetings are going to take place.
We're going to have a conversation with you.
We're going to have the same kind of consultation.
Could you do that, John?
Yes, sir.
We don't want to build these meetings and be primarily conserved in a nationalized air situation.
We will have to adapt to the election people of the state.
But we should not make these gladiatories.
We should set these meetings up and ask the kids and the students.
I think we should just send him a message.
Through state channels.
If I call it, it makes it difficult.
We should just send him a message that they're doing this.
What do you call it?
Massacres.
I asked him, I called the ambassador.
Called the ambassador, yeah.
And I think that's the best way to do it.
It's just a little key.
Or I said, better than yes is like one thing, but I saved you the other thing.
I wouldn't say it was, I saved you, but I'm telling the truth.
I called him one day, I don't know what happened, and I said, I thought he was going to bitch about it, particularly because I was going to do it, I wasn't.
So I thought you didn't want to get involved in this, except that he'd tell us what it's about, and he would go back, and he'd say, all right, he wants to talk to me.
But what he wanted to talk was India, Pakistan, those ideas you had.
Yeah.
And I thought it would be a little bit of the Indians.
All right, let's leave it this way, John.
We'll go off on our various plans.
You and I will see Burns.
In the meantime, you keep in close touch.
I'll try to see Schultz later today to get any aberrations that he may have or suggestions.
And then the four of us will meet.
But remember also that we've got to keep Burns live up to his name.
Well, he has to be here, but I will be a little bit cautious about him.
Well, I'll follow up.
All right.
I'd like to tell him what you're going to do with the... What I'm going to do?
I don't want to go there.
Oh, I'm going to tell him I'm going to get going.
He didn't say it.
I'm not going to get going.
Oh, no, no.
We can't tell him.
Oh, but you'll put it out.
All right.
I'd love to go with it.
All right.
Let him know.
The way we want to handle this is to let's get a little critical.
And you just say, you just say that I want you to go there and talk to Ray Pell, that's the search charge.
You've offered the search charge for this real life and don't go beyond that.
That's right.
That's our decision at this point.
That's our offer.
I don't think it's going to be as good to go beyond that as I did.
Okay.
As long as you know that you're going to go there and that child is going to be able to go.
Now, okay, we'll do that.
Well, I mean, the thing is...
I don't want him, I don't want McCracken, I don't want Stein, I don't want Sands, I don't want anybody who will be running around Europe now for a while.
That's right, John.
I'm sure things will get better.
All they're going to do is confuse them.
And he says, oh, he's got to do this, do this, and that's what I'm telling him.
And listen, all I'm telling him is, and I really don't even know what they're going to say.
Who the hell are we kidding?
We don't know what they're going to say.
Mr. President, we have some papers that we have given them that I have to report to Henry.
And I'll be the one to make you a package.
And you, it's going to give you all these options.
It's a long...
I understand this thing.
I know what you're talking about.
I think I have a role to play.
And if I get into the nuts and bolts of it now, I'll just throw it out and put it in the ground.
You don't need to.
And this department deals with this.
And the point is, is that by the end of that year, they're coming back.
And they are cut far enough.
Even if we got this field, we could, you know, we're going to play it that way all the way.
All right.
Okay.
All right.
I'm glad you don't miss it.
That's nice.
Well, it's good for me along the way.
Thank you.