Conversation 623-019

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Hi, how are you?

I'm fine, Mr. Brennan.

How are you?

Hi, hi.

Great to see you.

How are you doing?

Well, I'm in good shape.

I think you're in the first picture right at the beginning, Mr. Brennan.

I like it better when it's over here.

I'm trying to adjust it at work as well.

See if that goes far?

Yeah, it's supposed to.

.

The place is not very well known, but it's a very good part of the area.

And this is why it's a lot more expensive than any other city in the U.S.

.

Thank you.

Thank you for the project.

It's a great idea to study it.

It's just one way out.

We've never had a way to get it in use.

What are your suggestions?

I think the only thing I would still say, I have legal egos, work my way, and you've read it out too well, work my ways too, if there are any ways you could possibly buy rights, that's what, you know, having to go in and buy the land first, you know, they were robbed, so I'm not sure how that, that, that, you know, obstacle there was, but that's what I would say.

The first thing, though, is figure it out.

And I think you get a lot of credit for doing it, getting rid of it.

So far, our examination, trying to buy the rights of the youth permits, because of the nature of it, just as expensive as buying them.

Well, I know you guys.

It would seem to me that it would be worth it for you to make an announcement today.

We're going to do that.

We're going to approve it.

You're going to do it.

You know what I mean?

You and I are going to do it.

You go out and say, I approve it.

And you're going to carry it out as far as the technical details are concerned.

We're working on the technical details.

First thing I want to tell you, I think you're just doing a super job.

Oh, well, you know, we guys are trying to attract and make your job easier.

And that's one of the reasons I'm here.

And we're trying to make sure we're doing it.

And you do well, it makes us all fired up.

So I just can't take it.

I don't think this country's ever had it.

The point is that

The shock to the system, Raj, of the search for moral, well, moral state in this country that occurred in the Johnson-Kennedy period is going to take probably eight years to cure.

That's right.

Now, we just started it here.

I used the term in the press conference a year ago, you can recall it.

We've been through a nightmare, and now we've started dreaming about it.

We still just can't cure it.

But right now, if you go across the country, people just so wonder, well, you know, what's the future of this country, and so on and so on.

And we've just got a big deal.

All we're doing is getting rid of the negatives now.

That's right.

And we've got to go from there to politics.

Don't you agree?

I agree.

That's one of the problems that I have.

First thing I want to do is to really report to you on my trip west this summer in my life.

I don't think there's anything that I could have done at my level that could have gotten us more press.

Come on, better than that.

We've got front page news and daily newspapers.

Come on, they all sound stupid to me.

And I met with every kind of people that we could meet.

And I think that I'm trying to boil down the first place we met with all the state governments, not just the governors, but senior bureaucracies in the states.

We met with all the resource groups and water groups.

conservation groups, but mining people, timber people, the whole ball of wax.

We had dinners for example at the warehouse headquarters, the new warehouse headquarters out in Johnston Street, and had a wonderful, had all the presence of all the local companies there, and spent a whole week

We spent a lot of time at the mining people.

And I actually went down to the bottom of the old state mine, 6,800 feet underground.

And we met, of course, with all the conservation organizations.

And I believe that if you were going to try to boil down the specific issues that started with the mine, that's what we started with.

The, uh, I'm not talking about the old rag nation, which is, well, if you tell me how many we get, we'll get the states correct.

Well, we all have them in Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, Montana.

See, how's, well, we have them in California, and we have them in Alabama, and Washington, and Dakota.

17 Western Reformation States.

You didn't include, like, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma.

No, I didn't include Nebraska.

I went into Nebraska a majority of the time.

But I'll send back, it's telemetric, but I've been back since then to Arkansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Nebraska again, Kansas, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

And I try to get, I'm going to try now to just continue to reshuffle, to sharpen that up.

I think that the specific issues that might affect us politically out there are, number one, water development.

I feel that a little more at the table.

I don't think we're as bad off now as I thought we were six months ago.

Raising fees as part of the general farm economy and, of course, jobs, specific jobs that are affected by the agribusiness and agricultural economy out there.

There is serious concern.

As you know, you know that much about it.

Now, the way that pollution, conservation, and the environment are, particularly in the western cities, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Denver, Boise, anywhere within 50,000 or 60,000 people, this is a real concern.

The other thing is that the young people out there, I think, are somewhat different to me than the wild, young hippie crowd here in the East.

But they're looking for some things.

They're looking for a little more involvement.

I think they're particularly in Denver and Portland and cities like that.

I met with them, and I think sometimes the only effect they are, they have a lot of problems.

On the water thing, because we've talked about that before, we've talked about big waters and desalination.

Our principal, we've got a few major water development programs going.

The Central Utah Project, which is a $150 million project.

Central Arizona Project, which is just beginning.

The Central Battle Project, of course, you're able to make that in California.

That's from a $2 to $3 billion project.

the two dakota projects are the garrison diversion and the hawaii project in south dakota garrison in north dakota now i think that you've been classifying indian water as a second time i believe that if you will look at the history of funding of water you will see that in the in the early thousand years when we first look over from the county administration

We moved from a plateau in gold dollars, about $400 million, down to about $300 million in funding.

The difference going into the war.

I don't believe we're going to have to move much further ahead than that plateau adjusted for the different values.

At present time, we're funding our own water development projects at somewhere $100 to $300 million a year.

And when you lay that against the total projects, you see that you're just about being absorbed in what has been what's called a 96% inflation.

The West still has the feeling that their growth has totally been with more development projects, and I think this is right.

I think this permeates right down pretty well to the people.

But I don't think we've got to do too much to overcome it.

I think the thing to do is to start a show on it, in some way politically, and start a show against a game plan.

Actually, I believe all they've got to do is structure in the priorities of these major projects and let the others stay down at a level about where they are, with the exception of Indian Water.

And I believe if we'll do that, you'll get full credit in the Southwest, in California, on taking the leadership to provide enough M&I water for their

I'm talking about the next 15 years.

And I think we've got to put together a presidential program for you on that so that you get the political credit because of the war.

The water development projects are details.

And I don't know about what we've got here, but these guys have all got to put it up.

And overall, there isn't any overall presidential credit being given to you for a, let's call it a Western water development program.

I don't think you can come up with that, basically.

Yes, sir.

That's what we're going to do.

And I'm going to ask you about a month or two for about 20 minutes to give you the briefing on what we would consider the next in-game Western Highway development.

And I think the thing I would like to see in this, what John says here, is the...

I mean, not a lot, but we have the sewers in the last year.

The sewer wires, I think.

Jack, I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, shit.

and very exciting.

But I wonder if there isn't something looking primarily at a large number of folks, rather than in terms of, there may or may not be a lot of interest, whether they want it accessible or not.

But the point is, in terms of a large number of folks,

$20, $30, $40 billion program for water in the West.

Well, I don't know how to talk about the program, but just the idea, you know, that one made no business about it.

It just kind of must be water pollution and what makes it big.

The department's big.

Well, I think what we can do, our whole approach, our whole approach in this whole field is, it's been for three years, and it's

It's a trouble there, except in the field of pollution.

We don't take a big enough look.

We don't have a big program.

There are only a few women in this lake that I don't even mind to think that we'd be better off if we had a builder.

We've got a builder.

There's something that sounds important, well, rather than just sort of running a delay action.

All we're doing is fighting paid appropriations from the opposition.

Well, let me tell you how we're going to do this, Matt.

If we can go to the DNR, if we can begin to, if we can put the core of what we're doing, and operate this into one national program, you've got to do it.

Because the core backlog, for example, is around $16 billion.

Our backlog is around $11 billion authorized, $5 billion worth of programs that we have actually begun to fund on a piecemeal basis.

We're funding some $800 and $900 million programs at the rate of $10 million a year.

Well, nobody around here is going to live longer than I've ever seen one of them finish.

Now, I think what we ought to do is we ought to have some priorities for delivering water to to the Central Valley, to Utah, to the farm communities of both Garrison and .

away, and if we can do that, I believe, I believe really you'll come up with some, what I want to ensure is those 17 western states for you, and I think that the one that we've got, the tough one, as John said, is Washington, that's the toughest in the bunch, but I don't, I wouldn't really put Utah in our problem yet until we do a little work on there, more work on there, and this is one of the things that I can't affect you.

Let me talk for just a minute or two here about the

Of course, this is one hell of a situation.

Well, let me tell you what, right now, I'm a victim of a revolution.

The goddamn militants have taken over.

You better believe it.

The other militants have taken over.

Well, that's what John was telling me to do, and I can join him until I get down to the accountability of money.

And the actual, there's 25% of my entire property is blessed to be working here.

She's right at $500 million a year.

And there are about half a million on the reservations, and that's all we deal with is the reservations.

Now, my department is weak at the top.

That's $1,000 a million.

I only got half of it.

Uh, Elliot Richardson's got $450 million.

What do you mean it's $1,000?

We have over a million dollars in that.

It's $1,000 million.

That's right.

Well, it's $6,000.

It's $6,000 million, because the total appropriated funds for one of these programs is over a billion dollars.

$2,000 million is a goddamn million, sir.

Oh, shit.

Well, there are plenty of people.

Well, they're not shot.

Well, what changed the way they are?

Yeah, they're like, this place isn't powering up.

My organization is real weak at the top.

We found out 200 video people are two people we should never have put together with Commissioner Bruce and Secretary Lesh.

That's like trying to breed two jellyfish in dry land.

It just doesn't work.

But we're down toward the end now.

I'm a little bit afraid of our election because we're getting so much attention in Congress on trying to get somebody through that I'm a little nervous about going up there now on a confirmation.

I don't want to do anything, but I'm just saying this to you.

We may have just a little run of publicity here in the next couple of three weeks.

But we're trying to get off the front page, and we're trying to get a job done.

And here's what I believe we've got to do.

Here, let me just tell you something about him.

It's just a decent thing you've ever saw.

First place, we only have 50% of the road network that

is considered basic to the Indians, 50%.

We've got all kind of programs going to try and develop the economic with the factories and bring industry on the reservation.

And what do they all in the industry do in the middle of a reservation that nobody gets to work?

Less than 10% of them got electricity or less than 15% got electricity, less than 15% got running water, and less than 10%, only about 5% got telephones.

So there's no communication, there's no transportation, there's nothing.

You can build lots of schools by going out of stock if you can't get to the hospital.

In many cases, you can't get to the school.

So what I'm going to try to do is put the emphasis

on developing the Indian infrastructure, the basic plan in which they can do anything they want.

They can preserve their culture, they can dance around, they can do anything they want, but try and go for a program that at least you come up with some way that they can develop an integrated position with the rest of the economy.

If we could ever figure out a way that we could tap that highway trust fund a little bit, which has really passed the Indian by, so that the Indian roads could be brought up to some sort of standard, then I think we could do something.

But the way we're going with this symbolism, and that's all it is, and you're all hiding underneath the President's message of July 8, 1970, and they're claiming that I'm not going along with that program, and they're just crazy as hell because we are going along with that program as fast as we legally can.

We've got 200 contracts out with the idiots to service themselves.

and they're trying to make all kinds of noises that we're deviating from that policy.

It's not true, but I believe there's a tremendous political constituency that the Indians have that are removed from them.

They're in New York and in Boston and in Chicago.

So I'm going to try to emphasize, without any diminution of the

Things that we already have going, the development of the basic infrastructure.

If I can get that done, I think we'll have a master plan for every reservation.

We've got most of the major ones.

We are doing this with kind of other words than that.

Well, I've got a piece of trouble here.

Everybody has talked about this Indian spurs, as I said, from the time we put the four bashes in the reservations, which was just, nobody had ever done anything about it.

And the reason is, you said it's all symbolism.

They had to do that blue leg, or was it yellow?

That's right.

So I was trying blue leg.

It was the greatest thing that's ever happened to Indians.

I knew what it was.

It was pure crap.

Symbolism.

They're only in some place where they go to worship or something.

But what the hell, there was so many.

And now the point is that I couldn't agree more.

There needs to be a plan in the end.

Believe me, Roger, nobody's got one.

Not me.

Not yet.

No, no, they haven't got one.

I haven't got one.

So I like to say, take what I like.

Somebody used to take a million dollars and say, well, that's the kind of way to spend it.

Well, that's what we like to do.

But you see, we're caught up in this.

If we were alone on the island, we could do this, but Mike, I'm here coming with the damnedest, damnedest legislation that you've ever seen.

Well, in the name of God, can you do what you did?

Oh, Mike, was he no good?

He didn't work for them.

He's just weak as hell, and he's an absolute pawn in the hands of a running lobby and this developing group.

And the trouble is that I have a central secretary that was here.

He's a guy named Lash, who's from Colorado.

He's a country lawyer, and a damn good lawyer, and the world's worst administrator.

World's worst.

Right.

I don't know what he's going to do.

Well, I know he had, you remember, uh, John, you had Bobby Green was in there.

She's supposed to be Richard's mother now, but she's, she came all over.

She's all the way up to St. George.

Yeah, she's all the way up to St. George around the heart time now.

They said, well, I've got to be using her on the city board or the rights board, but I, uh,

What we've got, and I'd love you to do it, but we'd love you to do something, but you've got a lot of me to do it.

I mean, I really need a little good luck.

What do you got?

I'm not sure if you can see.

I'm not sure if you can do something.

I'm not sure if you can see somebody you can trust.

I need a top or another top parking in the sky where he takes it over and says, I'm going to shape this tree.

Well, I've got to have that, but I just don't believe right now we want it.

In order to have it, man, I've got to get rid of it, man.

And I think you're right now at the point where I don't know whether we want to rock it or not.

Yeah.

And I bet it's gonna be a real sensitive political decision to make a decision.

But let me cover that by really sleeping on it and praying on it.

Because I don't wanna do you more harm than good, because we're not gonna change the damn end of life around here in one year.

But we're gonna win or lose a campaign in one year, and that's just where we're going.

Let's do the symbolism now.

I agree.

All right.

But do the symbolism.

But improve it where we can.

I agree.

And then when we get through this election, God, let's go on.

That's just one of the great things that's supposed to be a good thing.

Oh, God, we've got studies you couldn't put in the Library of Congress.

I believe you can find and tell the administrator to run that bureau.

I think that's what we can do.

And Assistant Secretary.

That's what we've got to do.

You're going to have to characterize that.

I didn't realize 15% had one.

They don't have the 20 million, they have lights, batteries, they have telephones.

Light blue truck that looks like a bunch of pigs.

Well, of course, they have $2,000 a year.

Jesus, you could do better than that.

In the West.

That's ridiculous.

I know.

I know the trouble with your pig.

I'm going to text you a text from after this.

Oh, as a friend of God, this situation has been improved since we got in here.

In the 1950s, we just about doubled everything.

I back what you're doing here.

And we're going to do it smart, so it isn't going to hurt you.

Let me tell you, I didn't express great concern, and I know that you would say that I, that I, why don't you say that I raised all of us.

And with you, I said I, and you, you, the greatest good that we're working on, we must revolutionize changes in this area.

It's terrible.

Well, we won't revolutionize changes.

That's just what we've had.

We've just had the militants that were over there, were voting, and this guy said right out of the... All right.

Now, I don't want to work with you because you, Terry, is our guy.

Maybe that's not the best center.

All right.

i want to talk to you about the territories trust me it's more fun but i want to talk to you about all the territories this is the first place we have got a new relationship with two of the territories

In 1967, as you will remember, the bill was put in and it finally was a bill that I guess President Johnson signed into law that provided for elected government in the Virgin Islands and the Guadalcanal.

The result in that bill where it provided that there is a Comptroller who reports to the Secretary of Interior.

What this Comptroller does, they were pathetic and of course,

What he actually does is tell me how bad everything is down here and tell me how corrupt everything is, which I already knew.

I've been down here.

I've worked with that thing for a while.

I was ranked a member on the territory of southern people for a long time, and I really hadn't liked that.

But now we don't have any kind of a game plan for the relationship between those two territories and the federal government.

I just couldn't get very much interest anywhere.

I discussed this one time with some people in the State Department.

I discussed this with other people.

And I believe that one of the things I'm going to try to do is to develop some sort of relationship of guidance and standards to set.

or those two territories where we have the election government.

But now what's happening in every single agency in government, Commerce, ATW, Hood, the whole branch, we've all got regional field offices down here.

They're all engaged in programs down there, and we're getting stolen blind, and you better believe it, stolen blind.

And, you know, one out of about every five guys in Virgin Islands works for the government.

Labor, of course, is entirely offshore, it's very steep.

So that's number one.

We're trying to do that.

Samoa's going along all right.

We've got kind of a feisty governor out there.

He gets in trouble every now and then, but it's going all right.

And Micronesia.

Micronesia has been a victim.

Our relationship with Micronesia has been a victim of some liberal pressure that started back in the days of Mike Wittgenstein.

It started back in early Udall days.

And what happened was that there was tremendous encouragement for the Micronesians to become self-governed.

And wild promises were made that they would be running the show and we would withdraw our administration and then all would be riddled.

Roses of sweetness and light and they would be able to spend all this money.

Well, that unfortunately was a little bit triggered by, and in this administration, by a speech that I don't think was too well thought out by Wally when he went out there.

He only went to the headquarters and made a great speech saying that we were going to provide more money, we were going to provide more opportunity for self-government, we were going to provide all of these things.

And of course, in the normal course of events, there was a shortfall.

So what happened was that in the status question, there developed a great deal of criticism that we were falling short of our commitments in these areas.

So the status people on the Micronesian side have gone out and hired themselves a couple of real, wild-eyed

Now, Henry Kissinger got Hayden Williams, the major ambassador, and Hayden's a pretty good man, and I think he's pretty tough.

But basically, speaking of what's wrong, there is, I don't think that we have done a good enough job

in developing the loyalties of the common sense Micronesians and the people who are on the government payroll monitor to the administration.

So my proposal is that this will be my fifth trip.

I'm not a secretary.

I haven't been a third secretary.

But my proposal is that I go to Micronesia in January for about two and a half weeks and I go to every single one of these districts and I just politic the hell out of it.

and get them back in line and get a sense of loyalty to the United States and put on a pretty good show.

Not promising the moon at all.

Give them an opportunity to do a little hard work.

We're spending $16 million a year out there.

That's what our budget expenditure is.

In 1965, it was around $18 to $19 million, and it's gone, escalated, and we were safe.

And I believe, and if you believe, that those are really important islands because of their strategic position, I would like to ask you to, or encourage you to let me go out there.

Well, let me say, let's say, first, I think, first, I was fine.

Second, I would like for you to go out and just talk to us.

Well, I would have any discussion with the State Department on this.

I don't know.

I'm not going to talk about that.

They don't have anything up.

The main thing about a micro-native is you've got to keep it.

Right.

The main thing is we've got to get it in there.

We've got to keep it.

We have to raise some loans to be able to keep it because it's in development.

So don't go out there and this, I mean, Wally, of course, goes out and sells government capes.

Well, we got rid of the Florida Peace Corps.

That's right.

Now, I've done away with the Office of Territories.

It was led by a great American, Mr. Crank, and he said, he said, oh boy, and I just, the only way I could get rid of that thing was to reorganize it now, so there is no more Office of Territories in the Department of Interior, having had it for three or four months.

We do it through a Deputy Assistant Secretary, and that's more than enough.

Now, what's happened in this thing is that the Micronesians, like the Indians, have pretty well taken the government over out there, because they've been promised that the Micronesians would occupy all the high places in government.

In my opinion, we've got to hear Davidoff for high commission.

He's a boy who was a... What's his name?

His name is Fred Johnson.

I hope you know him.

I hope he's my best friend.

Oh, yeah.

That's the guy.

He's very, very, very sweet.

Well, I think I'm going to need this to see Mr. President.

I know that his son on the gun scene only spends about a week out at once.

I think he lives off of me, so I'm going to have to not call him up twice a week out there.

And, uh, I can't remember about that.

They're changing.

Well, they are.

I said, well, you know, to get it back here, that one year left in the administration, the same thing I'm talking about here, it's damn hard.

But we worry about that.

We've got a syndrome around here that the only people that can do anything about migration are the Hawaiians.

And that's a bad syndrome.

Of course.

And they're not polite.

It's a farm deal.

Yeah.

It's a farm deal.

He was a lousy station.

But I'm not going to encourage more Micronesians in government.

I'm not going to encourage that we turn over the... See, what Hill promised me was that they would allocate the money to the Micronesian Congress.

And that was just some very unthought-out kind of thing.

You're going to have to give us a drink.

What's not going to give us...

And if you've got to sail off, don't give them anything because they don't.

They really can't give them anything.

This is the money.

This is the factors, the controls, the power, which is what they wanted to hang on to.

There's one or two other global things out there that we've got to be careful about.

I don't know what your relations are with Continental Air, but they've been kind of slippery, and they're dealing with us in this area out here.

And they have been trying to cut Pan America.

I believe that we ought to keep Pan-Americans involved out there.

And Pan-Americans, they may not have the best public relations in the world, but they come closer to running a good international airline than anybody in the country.

And I think we've got to

I don't care anything about genealogy, politics, or what have you, but basically I think this country needs that organization.

I think basically the United States and America needs to have a president.

Well, it's kind of a small nice guy, and he doesn't have a big outfit.

I saw on the paper that his head on the top now, of course, is not blue.

No.

And the other thing that's happening right there, it wasn't Jackson coming in out there under the rug.

Sure.

And they got some junk going on yesterday.

I'm checking this out now.

I'm going to stop.

They've got a strip deal out there.

I'm going to get our little orders to figure it out.

We're just going to have to be here to keep very close to the hangar shop.

I'll keep just as close as I can.

I'll take any board with me.

I'll take a promo with me.

That's good.

I don't believe my travel budget passed your department.

It will burn the whole travel budget out in one year.

But I'm going to go all the way through the whole thing.

I'm going down some more, and I'm going to do every one of the six digits.

And I've still got a lot of energy to do the whole thing.

I think I either ought to do it right or not do it right.

Could you operate with a governor in Samoa and a governor in Indonesia too?

No.

No, I think I'm on.

I think it's fine.

The only problem I would see is whether it's worth two and a half weeks of your time.

But what it might mean, I'm thinking to myself, I'm looking at your schedule for the next year.

And for example, I'm going to have

We're not going to have any cabins except for Roxanne's, of course.

We're not going to have any cabins.

I'll just travel abroad at all.

That's what I want to do.

We want her to be here.

Now, regarding you, you are going to be absolutely essential to us in the 17 Westerns.

Let me say this.

California is a special problem.

And frankly so is Oregon and Washington.

But coming down, those other states, the states that I, I'll have to visit California.

I may not get to Oregon and Washington to be with you.

But Nevada, all those states that I've been in are Nevada, Mexico, Montana, Wyoming, Utah.

the codes and so forth in the states that I've interviewed with this, there are states that say, okay, well, you might have to use that.

There are candidates in the South who are going to use it, too.

I know you can.

Let me say this.

I think if you politically could watch those Western states, and also politically, where you think, hey, we can help, put them out there.

See, he's got a vice president's job, as always, to provide the smaller states that they're going to.

And also, I think we could do some .

So I would think .

Sorry.

Well, I'll come back to that.

I've got one more thing I want to talk about.

I think the third issue, the third issue, I believe no matter how you cut it, is pollution in the environment and conservation.

Now, I believe that pollution can be divided into two things.

One is

economic stimulating areas where, for example, where there is an involvement in the manufacture of new hardware, an involvement in the manufacture of new plants and construction and all that can be stimulating providing us in a framework that industry can afford.

And I think that, for example, we're going to be cleaning up the Great Lakes, and the Great Lakes are going to be cleaned up because the standards have been set by states and by Canada and everybody else involved in the Great Lakes, and we've got to make sure we get the credit for it.

Because this is one of the major political things in the whole western, mid-western card, because this is our great fresh water supply, the Great Lakes, and here is the next administration cleaning it up.

And I think we've got to have a gating plan.

Nine months yesterday we were out there with a train and what we're going to try to do is we're going to try to come up with a gating plan.

which is a way that you can go into the environmental area of Harvard in the areas that are not economically retarded, but in the areas that are economically stimulating.

And I believe you've got to give credit.

We've gotten hundreds of letters back.

You know, Robert Sass has.

He's gotten several from schools that don't want to participate in this program.

You saw that because of the

of, say, a lack of energy.

So I think you've got to go on TV, Mr. President, just like you did on Cambodia, and just like you did on the economy, and those were very effective.

At the right time, take 30 minutes and board in harbor on pollution.

I think it's got to be a speech to the NIEM, not that you're going to put them out of business, but charging them to take their responsibility within the economic framework of the data library.

I have a feeling that among women especially, and among young people especially, this is your best avenue to meet your real point.

I think it's a, I think it's a real issue.

It's not, I don't think, a phony issue.

I think if we get, if they ran, and it's the one that the other side can demagogue to account for, and they all demagogue, because it's an issue you can be irresponsible on, and it's like this must be billed, and it's going to be something that we're going to have to handle very tenderly.

But I really believe that you started off with your messages to Congress and your state of the message was very firm and pointed.

uh, direction at the environment.

And now I think what we have to do is have a follow-up team plan and be able to really demonstrate what we're saying.

And I'm going to, I understand you're the first great environmental president.

I think this is true, but I think there is beginning to develop a credibility problem in this area in the Marines.

And I don't think it's anything we can't change directly.

I think it's something we've got to do with the right guys.

And Josh knows we've got John, and John, and all the rest.

We want to be able to put together.

So that Trane, and Russell's house, myself, and Converse,

and other agencies are all tracking together.

And now we're kind of frightened, and it's been a little of my fault.

I've been a little critical, too critical maybe of Robert's past in some areas.

And I know that Maury has been the same way.

Well, I think it's because we're not put together.

And I would think that somebody on your staff, right close to you, you or John or John Irving should be

captain of that team, and we should come together and we should give you a Spain pollution and environmental conservation game plan, and we can sing from one end of this country to the other.

I think we might have to modify some of the legislation we've got in the environmental pact, but not seriously.

But I think failure to do this, the lefty must easily

whoever is going to be in Jackson.

And the rest of these guys can't just sit here and wait for you.

And I think this would be the worst kind of disaster.

Because if the economy isn't a kind of a meat-lover thing, if you lay the work rest, and you'll get some credit for laying the rest, and a hell of a lot of blame if you don't, you know, I know Senator, the issue that can make the difference on here is what we do towards quality of life.

And I believe that really is it.

And I think you're

You've been sold out.

And all these other issues on television.

And I think the people I've talked to say, well, haven't you talked about Cambodia?

We understood that.

He talked about phase one.

He understood that.

Talk about it.

He's afraid to talk about being burned.

He's aligned with big business.

Big business is not the votes.

And I think we can, I really think this is the one area that

And I feel like, and I've got to level with you, I really feel that this is the one area that we've got to shore up.

And I think this is something we can help you do, and do a lot for you, sir.

Don't you, John?

I really do.

But I don't think we're Captain Mustard now.

I really don't.

We've got to get them together.

We've got to get together.

I think we've got to get together within the street.

There's a hell of a lot of these things.

I went out to see Bill Burr.

Bill's an old friend of mine.

He married a girl and they had a wedding.

I went out there and I spent the evening with Bill Burr.

But he is not a bit upset about that thing down there.

He said, I know this.

I said, don't you realize that, for example, cleaning up the lakes and the rivers in particular, they think like dirty lakes, what industry's got to do.

He said, yes, but most of us now realize that we've got to do it.

So I'd like to have a senior business committee on this one.

We're not sending very clear signals.

No, we're not.

That's the point.

We're not letting everybody run as far as his own likes.

What you ought to do is have lunch.

Well, see, that's it.

We've got to get everybody aboard.

That's right.

We need to test the signals.

We've got to do it.

We've got to ask them, agree on what the signals ought to be before we, before we start out.

You see, I told them, that stuff's going to take place whether you like it or not, because all these standards have been set by the states and by everybody else.

But then we've got to do it.

That's right.

That's what I believe.

Uh, I don't think so.

Well, some kind of exposure that would not require a lot of time.

No, that's correct.

But, uh, in regards to water tubes and all that kind of stuff, you know, I think we've got to have a little pressure all the time.

We've got to be able to get a little bit of coverage.

We've got to have a little bit of coverage.

and that people won't get rid of them when other groups start getting on the track.

I'm just saying.

I'm sorry.

I want to tell you why we're waiting.

Because the environmentalists are going out to buy some water down in Florida.

Great.

I'll tell you how I see Frank.

I think he's probably warmed up on me.

Listen, he is absolutely top form today.

It's really good to see you.

Just tell him today.

Yeah.

It really works.

I just had a note here from Chuck Colson.

He's working his pockets for you.

And he's doing this for a percentage.

Thank you for the privacy.

Good luck.

You're going to have to see the president.

Yes, sir.

Oh, say, all those damn horses.

Aren't they going to bring the horses back?

How do you mean to do a fine job?

That's what's going on.

But it's not me.

He's right here.

Yeah, he's a real guy.

Yeah, apparently.

Most of the people are very able-bodied.

Yeah, he's brought me up a lot of pain.

Very young people around here with very, very responsibility.

I sold it for a while during the camp.

That's scary.

Well, how do you get the log?

How do you get the log out of that?

And let's face it, with the Kennedy thing and all the rest, the fact that you survived is a miracle.

I just want you to continue to survive, please.

Well, thanks.

You've got to.

We want to help where we can, as you know.

I'm keenly aware of the political problems here in West Virginia.

But it'll soon one day, as the candidate kind of receives, I mean, Massachusetts isn't hopelessly on the other side.

I don't think so.

The difficulty, as you know, is that nationally, if an individual who is a Republican were to

take the line that would fit the voters of Massachusetts.

It wouldn't fit Ohio.

There's a lot of these guys.

On the other hand, doing what you have to do for the heart of Ohio, on the heart of Indiana, et cetera, et cetera, even California, doesn't fit Massachusetts.

So somewhere in between, we have to get that balance.

But over a period of time, I think, well, frankly,

once the war is out of the way, or once the Chinese will be transferred.

I mean, that's far from possible.

It may be very, very possible, you know.

I don't know if everything's going to look like what it is right now, or if it's going to be very positive.

And you're part of this country.

Massachusetts is a highly intelligent state.

You have to follow your university tests.

They're going to appreciate that.

You need to get on a plane.

That's not us.

I think we'll be the last area.

We are.

You are California.

California.

Yes.

It really appears to sound like it.

Which I think might be worse because I look at it so closely.

Yeah.

Well, I just think it's awfully... Yeah.

Well, another thing, too, you don't have the...

And for whatever, however the problem in California is, it is a growing state.

I mean, it's just bound to grow.

Now, in the case of Massachusetts, your problem is that you don't have a farm to build, but they're holding their own.

It's much harder for you to pick up on that.

But it's going to come.

It's going to come.

Why don't you tell your people to take out the grains?

The old wasps don't eat the crunch.

How did you get him off the road?

I'll tell you one thing, I will take all of our money.

I'll leave it to Rocky Florida to give me an answer.

I don't have to pay for money.

How do you have it?

How do they have it?

The sergeant's got it.

No, it's open.

I don't know where he has it.

He's got it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

He didn't want to talk about it.

He'd like to have been consulted about it, but there just wasn't time.

Right.

Yeah.

And we had quite a bit of that.

Well, he fell ill. Yeah, it came so fast that we just didn't have time to do it.

Oh, he's a great friend.

That's great.

Must be a bad idea, but he does have to get rid of the nuclear and the gravity elements in many ways.

What is it?

He's got a very big problem.

So tell me, what can Massachusetts do?

Well, first, it would cost money.

First, it would mean to get rid of two sub-color subjects.

I think it would be worthwhile.

Because I've had to, Frank and I will talk to you about some political stuff, and I heard, said that I'm not talking to you about political stuff.

So the power is well-famed.

I guess we have the most god-awful mess of any state in the nation, most likely.

Oh, it's been tested.

But anyway, HR1, I've been talking with Elliot, which is an inventor,

I went back some time ago.

I had an amendment.

I had an amendment to H.R.

1, which I won't bother mentioning particularly, but it's probably too rich for your blood.

But what it does is gets the states to hell and going out of welfare completely over a phased-out three-year period and strong emphasis on working centers.

What I wanted to be sure was that we weren't going to be hurting

They want to expand on a fair amount, but not very, you know.

So we've had good talks with them.

Then what I did was I've been working with Rivercon.

Yeah.

And we're 20, 22 or 21 standards now on it, on this amendment.

You know, at $15.

Dude, you did very well.

And pretty good.

Yeah.

We're trying to stay right in touch with,

He said there's no way we're going to give an ATW a second term.

doing anything except being the fall guy, because he's going to be to the left of the administration.

And if he's to file on his way to the left again, so he's in trouble no matter what the hell's going on.

I wish you could just crack the bench and tell him it's Tony.

It's Tony.

He's doing well.

Very tough guy.

Very right.

I mean, that exterior is, I'm sorry, the exterior is a very tough guy.

Yeah.

And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, I think he's really right.

I think he's really better at a job like that.

Right.

Way back.

Yeah, just so you know, I'm going to be running against you one of those back Friday times.

probably a better candidate, right?

Because he has to be, he's a little stiff.

Yeah, and when he talks about something, it becomes very complicated.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, America has this HR1 thing.

I think we have to just kind of agree and disagree on literalizing HR1.

Yeah.

We've gone about as far as we can, budget-wise.

I recognize that.

And, uh, Rivercocks got now a whole half-full of rents.

Supposedly, just

who put it on the basis that you, of course, are pushing to take the other thing, but that we have to take a position in the city where we are.

Yeah.

Well, I, because I think that's what we, we're, we're, we're in a bunch of different areas.

The crunch is so good.

I know.

I, in fact, also, I said you've got to take a line and fix your seat.

But we're in a bunch of different areas.

uh, well, you know, the Puerto Rico Development Conference.

If we hadn't really been pushing this, there wasn't really an interest on the part of the development.

Why are we in the same role there?

What we were going to buy, we all wanted to do, but at least we whipped up a lot of enthusiasm.

I got other governors to join me.

I was torn what hell we had to spend.

You know, too rich for the administration's blood.

But essentially, I think we're whipping up a lot of enthusiasm and interest.

I guess our President of the Longest said he will at least hold it.

The other thing was, originally we were talking about the amendment to the tax bill, and everyone said, God, don't do that.

And we did.

Oh yeah, I love it.

I can't do this.

And that provision is so good that we, of course, realize it's on to say it revolutionizes the American political system.

So what I've got to be able to say is that I've talked to you about it.

That's what it was.

I think you could talk in terms of the fact that we're very interested in those things.

certain long-range goals, but at this time the budget problems are not allowed.

Sure.

It's the sort of thing that we certainly understand that you're attempting.

You know, I think that is rather rational.

But we have to be very clear on the budget side.

Oh, sure.

And I think what I can most help say is that

Mine is calling for reform, yours is calling for reform, and that was why

The first C-O-V-E thing was the wrong thing to do.

Oh.

You know, it would have killed the whole orchestra.

That would suck it off.

I know.

Well, as a matter of fact, it would not only have sucked this, it would have sucked that.

That's right.

Exactly.

I'm trying to get down to two.

T-R-O-V-E, which you like.

I'm just talking about the E-M-L package to join you with the T. T-R-O-V-E.

Uh, you know, the, uh, the, uh, first amendment to H.R.

1, which we did agree to, uh, will... That's okay.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, that's fine.

...get some speed in my mind.

That's got to be a static, static distance.

Yeah.

But, uh, the loan, it was just going to kill everything.

Yeah.

So I don't, I don't want to appreciate it.

The other, the other bit of intelligence is, of course, that Mills may very well come out with revenue sharing a week or so.

So, his own burden, again, we won't get into this section, but his own burden isn't too bad.

It's 3 1⁄2 of the state, 1 1⁄2 of the city, so that makes 5.

That's 5.

So it doesn't matter correctly now.

He'll drive us in.

It's very different, Mark.

He won't give a damn.

Yeah, I mean, it's been done.

Right.

Sure.

He got the principal established, so we're just waiting.

Trying to let him get off the hook on the thing.

See you, Mark.

Yeah, I'll do.

Now, I don't know if you can make it right or wrong, too.

Well, probably, and we don't know yet, but probably the guess I have is that he will go on the same effective date that you proposed.

I see.

Well, January.

January.

January effective date.

Yeah, you're right on that too.

I don't know whether those guys in the Congress really understand how serious the state problem is.

Oh, but they're unbelievable.

But I understand it.

Good God, I hear it from governors all the time.

And I don't think the city should know what it's all about.

It's part of the states.

If you think of cities, you think of the history of New York, New York City.

But basically, it's the state problem.

I mean, you get Barack Obama, Reagan,

The big state, your state.

I don't know.

It's unbelievable.

I really don't know how I could go for more taxes this fast.

Yeah, 1% tax, cash in tax, cigarette tax, corporate tax.

Did you pay insurance?

Yeah, I got the whole damn works.

And I don't know how.

You don't have your real property tax?

Your real property tax is just about as high as you can go.

I don't see how we can go.

We have to pay your lease on it.

States, to me, what's going to happen eventually is that the states are going to get out of the welfare business.

It's going to be kind of a social security arrangement.

And I think we've got to pick up the full, the states have got to pick up the full load in education.

I don't know if you guys think, well, yeah, that will, then you can do something about the property tax.

I think it's...

Well, because, I don't know how hard it is to take the full load of education.

But they can do it all the other way around.

It's both the better and the worse.

Take the full load of education.

There's no other way to go, John.

I just have to think about it.

You know, I leave, I leave administration, you know, and part of the principles are pretty much for part of the administration of education.

Well, the administration of education, I think, you have to change the tax system to do it.

But that's another thing to think about.

Yeah, but right now, in my state, and I think in almost every state, this is a local problem.

Let us suppose there were some kind of a tax reform.

that would have to be revolutionary, that would move on that property tax.

The federal government moving that.

That's probably what you have to have.

You see that?

The property tax precedent all over the country has reached its ultimate goal.

You could go entire Massachusetts.

I don't see how good.

I really don't.

So that's what I'm going to say.

You can pick up the space.

There are other ways to do it.

You can stick it together.

You can get the space outside of the education system.

Right now.

Or out.

But to just say that, who was the state guard thinking about all these things?

I don't know.

You don't?

Yes, I do.

The way it was demonstrated, God damn it, the Congress turned up.

But that's true.

It should have been true.

It's been hard to hear.

To hear.

And I must say, it tells us, while he's playing his own politics, but take H.R.

1.

Uh, I've heard, I've heard whatever people think.

It's been over two years, you know.

I, I want to propose it in August 2019 to GLI.

Nothing.

It's fine.

It's out of the House of the Senate.

Rather than the scaling, I was amazed at how well we were able to do in terms of developing public opinion.

I had committees, I had all this stuff, and it really was damn good.

But then it's so pooled out.

That's right.

We're there for that.

Yeah, because it's not so long now.

Yeah.

Item number two, and I shouldn't press, but I do want to get rid of it.

Item number two is a letter that I've written to you about a terrific problem we've got with about 10,000 people that have to go out of work if the shipyard closes.

And the best thing I think to do is I'll give John, who I've already sent you a letter on it,

So then I thought, should I even say, this is a shipyard posting?

Yeah, it's potentially.

They'll have it somewhere, but I wonder if it's really good for people talking.

And all I thought was that, as a cover,

And I just said, talk to the amount that we're ready to help.

Well, dear.

And I said, we're buying it all the way up next month.

Keep that front and center.

Fine.

And I just said to the FBI that I've written you a letter about it.

I talked to you about it.

And that the administration is ready to handle it.

Right.

Good.

We'll do that.

I'll do it.

And we will attend to it.

I don't know what problem there is to what it is now.

Now, to cease things, thanks, but I'll be off.

I'd rather you wouldn't be here.

I don't know whether you think Kennedy's going to be the guy.

I still kind of do.

I think he will be.

I mean, what I say, I think he will be.

I don't think anybody would ever say that.

I said it, and I would, of course, deny it.

But my own political judgment at the moment, just before I read across the desk, I haven't studied this stuff much.

I mean, I've already studied it, but I haven't.

It seems to me that you've got to look at the other candidates, and they don't seem to... Muskie is, to every reasonably well, but he's...

But he doesn't...

I think he'll get topped up in Congress.

Yeah, he's living on fines.

Is that your opinion?

Yeah.

How about yours?

I don't hear anything.

Yeah.

Now, remember, we held space at Jackson and Macon.

Jackson's the first class stand where Jackson and Macon.

And the feeling around here, when I say around here in Washington, among the political pros, is that, I'm going to tell you, John Conney was here today.

He's a play leader, John.

You don't hear as much as I do, John.

My hunch is that we're not really going to have to deal with this until we're very close to the convention.

Yeah.

We're going to do some inconclusive priorities.

And who will win that?

Who will win the convention?

I suppose Muskie will.

He's close on this match.

You're not right.

But Barbara's going to be active.

No, but Barbara's going to be active.

She's going to be active during this.

You'll just use that.

You would be surprised.

What's that?

You're already in there.

Oh, but you think it's 20% of the vote?

Yeah.

Oh, he has to find out.

He sent Tom with me.

He sent Tom Foley up there.

I'm not so sure.

So they're texting each other.

I think he might.

Doesn't he have to invest?

I don't know.

No, you've got to agree.

That's right.

He's in Massachusetts.

I don't know if he got involved in the discussion about legislation.

Oh, the primary.

Yeah, I heard about that.

I got a report from Chuck.

Well, there's a difference of opinion amongst your advisors, I think.

Some said I should sign it, others said I shouldn't.

And I just...

I couldn't believe I should sign it, because it was a candy-bale of devil, the last one.

Where did you sign it?

No, I didn't get caught.

But every single Republican in the state would have thought I was nuts.

But you know, the thing that was behind that other kind of deal... Oh, I know what it was.

It was that you didn't want to see it.

I don't see how the hell he can get any votes.

That seems to be the prevailing view.

He just doesn't have a chance.

Well, if there were a committed delegation, yeah, as a state, we are going to have a delegation of students.

Oh, sure, sure.

But the thought was that Oski might be able to bounce off of them and actually go in there and steal a pot.

I am sorry, Mr. President.

If he does, I thought it was even if he got 20% of the vote, it would be interpreted nationally as a bluff.

The President committed the delegation to absolute advantage.

But, uh, that's one of the tactics.

The reason Kennedy wanted it was that, essentially, he wouldn't have to begin running anyway.

He wouldn't, for example, if you want not to be in it, you've got to run outside your estate and say you don't want to be in front of it.

Well, he wouldn't have answered that problem.

And what they had was just a whole bunch of delegates and alternates and everyone else that would all be in it.

He wouldn't have to say a damn word about this part of the show.

So, I know, and I know I could generalize, and the legislature told me that the county people would just have the last show they could do.

Well, there's a lot of reasons to make around here.

Yeah, actually, I don't know.

Well, like I said, I think John may be correct.

It's much easier to know who it is, but at least when I follow up with Stu, he's probably going to think he's going to be a candidate.

He has his lines filled with the Democratic Party.

I don't know if you know that.

I don't know what to say about it.

He knows which one we're moving to Preston.

So his view is that they have right now until they're going to have to go for Teddy because nobody else is going to catch fire.

I'm proud that Teddy will catch fire because he's a Teddy.

He's a Teddy.

of the pictures in front of the grave.

That just brings a lot of trouble.

And it's awfully difficult really to ask a person from Massachusetts because it's just so incredibly kind of VRM.

It still is.

It's just interesting.

And I think it's a funny thing.

I think some of it goes way back to they didn't like you because you ran against JFK.

But it's that kind of thing.

It's a real, nothing new.

If he lived, he probably wouldn't have been revealed.

I don't know.

I'm afraid you are.

If he doesn't get it, then Massachusetts might be a very different story.

Now, I hope you don't think, well, Massachusetts is no way of winning, because I think you're doing awfully well.

That's true.

Definitely not.

I told you this Sunday, I told Bobby Griffin this morning, Bobby is, he's doing very well.

It's a reverse of what you're saying.

The busing issue is making Bobby Grayson get his car into Michigan.

Bobby, you know, he's from East Bromley, so we've got to get rid of the constitutional amendment, whatever the case may be, or something else.

Bobby said, please don't write a mission.

I said, well, never.

See, the reason that you know that this is also very true in Massachusetts, if you write a law in the state, like Massachusetts,

you then run a risk that you'll be weakening yourself, and the officials told you what you should do.

You'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself, and you'll be weakening yourself,

But if you don't go to Michigan,

that it slumps over and you tie it all up and you tie it up again.

So even though you lose this thing, you make it accurate.

Oh, there's a robot in it?

There's a robot in it.

It hasn't held anything on something electric in that country.

That's what we're going to take away.

Plus, which is the television center of the Northeast.

Correct.

Well, I remember when I was in the managing director, we ran everything out of Boston.

All of our television was done out of the Boston stations.

I came down here several times through the program.

And, of course, the book is in the parks, and apparently, I'm very nervous for a judge.

Yeah, well, I know it's about self-interest, but I will be open-minded and open-minded, too, sir, because I just had a talk earlier.

Over the papers?

Yeah, well, over the papers, but also over the legislation.

Oh, yeah, well, yes, of course.

I think, uh, no.

folks in the right houses, can actually change and get them back.

I can remember a time, I may have to go back a long time, but I can remember a time, if you can, in 52 of the campaigns, where we had the speaker and I went to the Senate, I went and visited the legislature at that time, that's a candidate for vice president.

I don't know whether it was the Kennedy era.

We were divided, torn apart.

No way to raise money.

The state committee is the most laughable thing.

You're right.

Many situations that he died, I've heard, when he was running around wanting to be vice president.

So here's, if you have the whole time to leave the party, don't you?

Hold on.

And then that story's got me most of the time.

Well, it is not happening.

Let me just mention... You've got a little dude in people.

We've got, uh... See, that's the fact that we're in a situation where everybody's on his own on a third-person exchange.

When you run from statewide in Massachusetts, you've got to stop.

You've got to respect your neighbors.

Does Burke come out this time?

He comes out this time.

Chris, you own it.

It's a long, great opportunity.

Right, I understand.

But you've got to build right from the ground.

You don't have anyone that you turn to.

You've got to build your whole organization.

You've got to ground the Republicans.

Last thing that I would like to suggest, and I realize I'm running out of time.

I've been trying to think how I can be most helpful to you.

I don't think...

The best way is for me to go running around beating the drums too much right now.

But where I think I can help you a lot is in fundraising very politely.

You know, just the personal phone calls I talk to Jim Mitchell about.

And it seems to me that if I can, I realize now that there's likely to be a limitation on funds.

I'm fairly soon.

And that maybe, if this made sense to you, if I could have a license from you to make personal calls myself to people, indicating the importance of this, the importance of doing it right now, that I might be able to raise some fairly substantial cash.

We raised a million and a half over that.

And I can't change it now.

I couldn't say that I could do that.

But I think, for example, we have the

to look for the president in a disaster.

Hell, it was so awful.

They called me from here to see what I could do the last couple days.

Well, I just personally got on the phone and I picked up 10 grand just doing it myself.

The poor old boy, where am I?

I'm looking up his name.

You know, he knows the money people.

He knows himself, but he's...

or is he getting less than half of them dead?

But it seems to me that I could do that.

I wouldn't be out in front not looking to have my name on the letterhead or anything else.

I don't want it to upstage the lawyer anymore or whatever the deal is.

I'm sure I have to do this.

But it seems to me I could get a few people that I know.

Now, most of the people who contributed to me, well, might not contribute to the president.

They're all looking for something.

They either are the Irish, the Democrats, or this or that candidate.

But I could go to some of them.

Also, if you had names, your people had names, or people that I might get, I'd get a ring.

But this would mean, I think, I ought to have somebody

somebody easier that I could work with.

I think the best is really, really Mitchell.

I think John is the one.

I haven't thought about it, but he has my confidence, of course, and he's totally trustworthy, and I think he'd be the best one.

And if he isn't going to work out .

For example, if they say he's not going to work out, he's going to get something like a song or something like that.

But what if he can't do something like that?

Because it doesn't have to be somebody that's a fundraising star.

Yeah.

My thought was that if I could settle or I can call his people, I know I can't call .

Sure.

I think we should have somebody come out and sit down with you.

I think it's much better to have this panel on that kind of a basis where you can have a good candid chat and go over your thing.

But this, why do you have John or his, somebody send him?

I have, uh, get a hold of John and have him send him.

I'll tell him.

You're back.

I'm going to see him in a few minutes anyway.

Good.

Well, I think this would work well.

I have no idea how much I can write, but I think, why, I can do something.

recognizing of course that lots of people just shouldn't call and i don't think i can do it with a committee what do you do also i think there are people of accuracy for you that wouldn't give me it

That's good.

We'll get some of you.

Well, I got two questions.

Thank you.

You come in and, uh, we, uh, you, uh, you'll come back up there in our time.

The, uh...

I believe so.

I really do think that you are doing very, very well.

You know, I was critical of the times in the past.

You have to be winning.

You damn right are.

I'll never forget your time.

You get another third of the conference.

You get the audience to do that and say, let's see it.

Let's see it.

I'll be hearing from somebody who sits down with me.

You'll know that I'm talking to us for a fact check.