Nixon, Kissinger & MacGregor on Foreign Policy and India-Pakistan Conflict

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Well, two things quickly with you.

One is John Connolly called from Rome.

He says Italians are extremely good, that they're excluded from these meetings, and particularly now that we've got the Canadians themselves.

It's partly a political judgment you have to make.

I was hoping that there is presidential election.

I told him to say that we didn't raise it.

It's because of the presidential election.

What you ought to do is to sort of get all the statements that you have to use every day to look and see what happens.

or or or or

courtesy, courtesy.

I could have served the last man in the building long, you know what I mean, so that they had it before.

And then I give it to Republicans and say, you know, here's a half hour, half hour, give them a half hour, I'll just sort of, some of that, and read it to them, and back it up to them.

Okay, see, we've got to get that right, and people say, all right, fine.

All right.

I just saw the sound of the bench.

You know, he was here.

But, uh, where's the bench?

They're a drag, as you know, better than anyone, because you've locked so many hours with these bastards.

Now, you saw the foreign minister, Moro.

On the other hand, I don't... You can touch better than I did.

Domestic impact, as they tell you, gets lighted up.

And on substance, we don't need it.

What they told Connery was that he said,

They voted with us at the UN.

They responded to you.

Well, they have said, but at least a bit more than the others did.

Well, quite frankly, the U.S. is the least possible.

I think we should do it here.

We should do it like Trudeau.

I think we should do it like Trudeau.

I know it's a horrible drag and brings nothing to us.

We don't have to make it a firm invitation.

We could leave it at Conway to play it by ear.

Well, I don't have a reason.

Well, I got the key.

I think you shouldn't do it now until after.

If you do it at all until after the draft is well into January.

It's a drawing session of the two Houses of Parliament and they need an absolute majority so that one will go on for a while.

You'd probably find, I'm trying to be realistic, that if you come across the ocean

It's not possible to do it without a dentist and see others.

But it could be as late as the end of January.

I think it's better for you that it's up to you.

You really should do it, absolutely.

You don't have to give a date now, because if...

The reason we have not had a meeting with them is that they are in the midst of their questions, and we are deferring, and we are discussing that.

There will be a meeting with them before the 13th of June, and it will occur in the latter part of January.

That's the word.

They will be in Washington.

And I think it's, I think we ought to do that.

I want to be very clear, it's not a true story.

I want to be absolutely, totally clear.

It's to be very simple.

There are no rivals there.

After that joke, he comes in.

We have a chat.

And, uh...

Yeah, normally.

But I'll raise an hour, and I'll debate, and I'll give him a black tie, say, and I'll...

Okay, because we've already had dinner for him.

This guy's a bachelor, so... Now, Mrs. Gandy's, uh... Keating.

Keating, indeed.

Uh, drop.

All this alone is, she said, this is a question of national interest for us.

When the country's national interest is concerned, none of this high-sensory moralistic stuff anymore.

I think we now ought to cut off the arms.

I mean, we were waiting with her until we had her reply, but we saw her reply.

We were just waiting to get into a better package.

It's made for the destination.

Now we'll have some meeting at 2.30 of the classic group.

Let's go through the proceedings.

We can do it tomorrow or Wednesday.

Depends on what news cycle you want to have.

I have come from a four-year background.

Well, we have to.

We have two choices also about cutting it off.

We can just cut it off and not say anything, or we can cut it off and announce it.

Orbit.

And actually, of course,

Mr. President, people say they're jeopardizing our relations to India.

One could make an equally good case for the provocation that if we show a little toughness to the Indians, first of all, trying to get the money, there's no major issue of respect ever supported us in four administrations.

I mean, it isn't that our relations are a sort of psychological kick to ourselves.

Secondly, there's a good reason it can be made for the provocation

that they don't want to be completely dependent on the Russians, and that they'll come back to us with somewhat more respect, but even if they don't, if they line up completely with the Russians, it will drive the Chinese towards us.

So the worst mistake we can do is to ditter around at the exit of this problem and get no respect from the Indians, despised by the Chinese,

That's why I'm afraid we'll be hard-locked.

I'm glad you understand what I'm saying.

Why do everyone show the fears of the United States, which is having to even have the policy to come up with a vaccine and come up with a vaccine?

I'm afraid.

God, I don't know.

Maybe that would have been fun.

That's what the money-grant is.

The money-grant is that they are clearly going to stay in the state.

It's to take it out of the lighthouse and not let the state get a free shot of it.

But let the state, let the state, the ladies, let the state do it.

Well, it's a poor kind of fish.

I'm going to use yours if you've got it.

Thank you.

So I just want you to track this down for me.

This will cause me a timeout.

We're going to do this one.

We're going to do time four.

Therefore, I could make it .

I'm going to go bring her back to the left.

I'm going to .

We're all working it out.

You can't do this alone.

We are moving.

And if you have a question about other meetings that isn't like that of an Italian meeting, so don't be absolutely categorical.

We all know that is a discussion and that's after their whole election.

Somebody, and I'm afraid it was Arthur Byrne, put out the story of the Wednesday meeting.

The only man who could even have thought that was Burns because all the others in the room knew that Connolly...

Exactly.

I put it up.

I told him, you know, he's a proud man.

I said, look.

Did he mention it to you?

Yeah.

Oh, he did?

Yeah.

Well, I said, the president is 1,000% behind you.

You are the lead man in this.

I don't know.

I'll do that, but I thought I had to stay away from it.

Well, here's what I do.

And I called him back and let him know of the attack.

Don't let us on the Michigan State Department discuss it with the attack.

He said, well, they're all on the attack and saying it.

He certainly told the attack and said, we, the only reason we didn't include them was because of their reactions that you would have put up.

Go ahead and process.

And then after we, and then before I go to the meeting, for the latter part of January, we will be in, we will try to work out a victory for me.

And they, they inspected that effect and we will say so here.

Good.

And, uh, he's soft, simply out of the direction.

Okay, Harry?

What?

Nixon, Kissinger & MacGregor on Foreign Policy and India-Pakistan Conflict

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 29, 1971

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