{"conversationCode":"632-004","tapeNumber":632,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-632-004","startDateTime":"1971-12-08T15:27:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-12-08T15:50:00.000Z","startDate":"8-Dec-1971","startTime":"10:27 AM","endDate":"8-Dec-1971","endTime":"10:50 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Woods, Rose Mary; White House operator; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On December 8, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, White House operator, and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:27 am to 10:50 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 632-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 632-4\n\nDate: December 8, 1971\nTime: 10:27 am - 10:50 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Rose Mary Woods.\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -Dinners\n                -Ohio, Illinois, New York, California\n                -Entertainment for December 7, 1971 dinner\n          -Rita Reichman [?]\n\f     J[ames] Curtis Counts\n          -Talk with Woods\n\n     The President’s schedule\n          -Call from unknown person\n\nThe White House operator talked with the President at 10:28 am.\n\n[Conversation No. 632-4A]\n\n[See Conversation No. 16-42]\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n     Counts\n         -Offered presidency of Airco\n              -Location\n         -Checked with George P. Shultz and James D. Hodgson\n              -Other job offers\n                    -Trucking\n                    -Roger M. Blough Construction Company\n         -Mediator in labor strikes\n              -Counts’ effectiveness\n              -Options\n                    -Presidential election of 1972\n              -Blough\n                    -Location\n              -Unknown person\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/12/2019.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w001]\n[Duration: 40s]\n\n     The President's meeting with Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan\n          -Tricia Nixon Cox\n                -Dinner\n                -Schedule\n                      -Constance M. (Cornell) (“Connie”) Stuart\n                -Talk with the President\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     The President's television appearances\n          -Christmas 1971\n          -Freeman Gosden's views\n\f                -Possible outcome of the President’s speeches in front of students\n                     -“Salute to the President” remarks\n                           -Students\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/12/2019. 2m\n58s segment cleared for release. 38s remain closed as 632-004-w002.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w002]\n[Duration: 38s]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w002]\n[Duration: 2m 58s]\n\n     Anthony T. (“Tony”) Rossi\n          -Fabric selection\n               -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] trip\n               -People's Republic of China [PRC] trip\n          -Appointment\n               -Dwight L. Chapin\n               -Possibly after Azores trip\n               -Press conference\n               -The President's schedule\n                      -New York\n                            -December 11, 1971\n               -December 18, 1971\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope\n           -Call to Woods\n                 -Timing\n           -Unknown woman\n           -Willard W. Keith\n                 -Herbert W. Kalmbach\n           -New York\n                 -Unknown woman\n\f**********************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/12/2019. 8s\nsegment cleared for release. 7s remain closed as 632-004-w003.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w003]\n[Duration: 8s]\n\n     Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope\n           -Health\n                 -Delores (Reade) Hope\n                 -Philip Dorn\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w003]\n[Duration: 7s]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope\n           -Letter from the President\n                 -Hope\n           -Kalmbach\n           -Gosden\n                 -Keith\n           -Gosden\n                 -Kalmbach’s opinion\n\n     Allen Hoover\n          -Camp\n               -Possible letter from the President to Hope\n\n     [Letter dictated]\n\nH. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 10:45 am.\n\n     John B. Connally's schedule\n          -Meeting with the President\n               -Time and day\n          -Cost of Living Council [COLC] meeting\n\f          -Timing of meeting\n          -President’s schedule\n                -French\n                -Henry A. Kissinger\n                -Paul A. Volcker\n                      -Accompanying Kissinger\n                -William P. Rogers\n                      -Meetings with the French\n\nHaldeman left at an unknown time before 10:50 am.\n\n     Bernard J. (“Bunny”) Lasker\n          -Call to the President\n                -Stock market\n                      -International monetary situation\n                      -December meetings\n                            -Timing\n\n     Autographed photographs\n          -Football\n\n     Nixon look-alike actor\n         -Richard W. (“Dick”) Berlin\n         -Appearance\n               -Woods’ opinion\n\n     Envelopes\n\n     Julie Nixon Eisenhower\n           -Schedule\n                -Location\n                     -Timing\n                -The President's forthcoming phone call\n           -White House Christmas decorations\n                -Upcoming Christmas television program\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/12/2019.\n23s segment cleared for release. 28s remain closed as 632-004-w004.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w004]\n[Duration: 28s]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n\f**********************************************************************\n\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w004]\n[Duration: 23s]\n\n       The President’s schedule\n              -The President’s opinion\n                     -Nature of modern presidency\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     The President’s schedule\n          -Entertainment\n               -Dwight D. Eisenhower\n               -Lyndon B. Johnson\n               -John F. Kennedy\n               -Eisenhower\n                      -Dinners\n                      -Guests\n               -World situation under previous presidents\n                      -Amount of free time afforded to\n                           -Individual games\n                                 -Golf and bridge\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/12/2019.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[632-004-w005]\n[Duration: 1m 16s]\n\n     The President’s clothing\n          -Lighter weaves\n               -Spring and summer\n               -Anthony T. (“Tony”) Rossi\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nWoods left at 10:50 am.","filename":["632a.mp3","632b.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:59:48","tapeEnd":"01:22:23","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Woods, Rose Mary","White House operator","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"632-003","nextCode":"632-005","tapeTranscriptFile":"632a.mp3,632b.mp3","transcript":[{"start":3616.08,"end":3618.8,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":3638.76,"end":3644.23,"text":"So if you're a clown and you need time to pull out everybody's name who's been here and get rid of them and just hold the ones who haven't been here."},{"start":3644.25,"end":3654.76,"text":"Yeah, well, the only dinners we will have in America are at 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. We may have spring."},{"start":3654.78,"end":3655.88,"text":"Do a little study in the future."},{"start":3655.9,"end":3656.28,"text":"Sure, that's fine."},{"start":3656.3,"end":3657,"text":"The Ohio crowd, the Illinois crowd."},{"start":3667.84,"end":3673.2,"text":"So was that little girl awful, or was she good?"},{"start":3673.24,"end":3674.05,"text":"She was all right."},{"start":3675.69,"end":3677.73,"text":"She looked very good."},{"start":3699.25,"end":3707.97,"text":"Do you have time for me to ask you a couple questions?"},{"start":3707.99,"end":3712.41,"text":"Kurt called me this morning and asked me if I would talk with him."},{"start":3713.9,"end":3714.64,"text":"He's a citizen."},{"start":3730.53,"end":3732.23,"text":"Oh, it isn't at all."},{"start":3732.29,"end":3732.39,"text":"Hello."},{"start":3732.41,"end":3732.75,"text":"That's right."},{"start":3732.77,"end":3734.65,"text":"So, a witness, four or five months ago, he was out with the presidency of Eric Ho."},{"start":3734.67,"end":3734.79,"text":"Oh, yes."},{"start":3757.99,"end":3758.41,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":3758.45,"end":3773.22,"text":"And he said that at that time he had checked through a show at the National House of Representatives and told, you know, that he didn't want to get the second anniversary after."},{"start":3773.34,"end":3778.62,"text":"And he didn't, he had not, of course, been seeking any jobs then."},{"start":3778.94,"end":3785.32,"text":"But he said that he now has another two proposals where he wants to check in to another one from"},{"start":3789.47,"end":3790.87,"text":"trying again to connect to that."},{"start":3790.89,"end":3810.18,"text":"Now, he perfectly loves to sit tight, but he wants to be sure that sitting tight is your desire, not the... Yeah, it's very important that you sit tight for the reason that he's so effective in these mediated things, and that between now and the election."},{"start":3823.65,"end":3840.93,"text":"He said he didn't know whether you had anything else in mind, and, you know, later, you might get a different spot."},{"start":3840.95,"end":3841.83,"text":"That's what I thought."},{"start":3841.85,"end":3842.75,"text":"Yeah, after the election, yeah."},{"start":3842.77,"end":3847.95,"text":"I think that through the election, we're going to be in this position."},{"start":3850.33,"end":3859.58,"text":"But after the election, there's going to be a general reshuffling, and he wants to stay in."},{"start":3859.66,"end":3862.58,"text":"And then I think he still has those offers."},{"start":3862.6,"end":3867.8,"text":"But I think he just wanted to hear it from you."},{"start":3867.86,"end":3872.91,"text":"Sure."},{"start":3872.95,"end":3873.31,"text":"That's fine."},{"start":3873.37,"end":3873.91,"text":"Have you seen ."},{"start":3876.59,"end":3877.59,"text":"See, this ball comes from somebody that got off me."},{"start":3877.61,"end":3878.79,"text":"Somebody came from here and was asking me about something."},{"start":3878.81,"end":3878.93,"text":"I see."},{"start":3878.95,"end":3879.61,"text":"I think it would do something, huh?"},{"start":3879.63,"end":3880.07,"text":"Well, I'll look into it."},{"start":3944.72,"end":3949.67,"text":"I think I got a suggestion on your"},{"start":3950.7,"end":3954.22,"text":"doing it on TV to get to the ancestors of the country during the holiday."},{"start":3954.24,"end":3956.9,"text":"Of course, he knew how busy it was."},{"start":3957.9,"end":3977.21,"text":"His reason is that when they're listening, and he says he knows it from actual fact, when they're listening while they're at school, you get a bunch of hecklers in the middle of something, and they don't give the other kids sometimes a chance for you to get across."},{"start":3979.24,"end":3985.21,"text":"And he just thought that your salute to the president at that dinner when you spoke was so excellent."},{"start":3985.57,"end":3991.39,"text":"He just wished that every hamster in America could have heard that speech."},{"start":3991.57,"end":3994.2,"text":"And I'll give this to anybody who wants your schedule."},{"start":4217.79,"end":4221.16,"text":"Bob called me one day last week, Thursday Friday."},{"start":4221.18,"end":4225.63,"text":"And he really didn't want to say it, but just to tell me how..."},{"start":4227.74,"end":4246.36,"text":"the golf games gone and so forth, and how amazed he was, as much as he's seen me around and he's been in the public image, just how very nice and how very courteous you were to everyone, down the course, walking out of your way to do this, that, and he said he was just amazed that he wanted to be remembered."},{"start":4248.42,"end":4251.88,"text":"He sees an awful lot of people at our church."},{"start":4251.9,"end":4252.38,"text":"Oh, and her..."},{"start":4257.06,"end":4259.1,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4259.32,"end":4261.34,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4261.62,"end":4265.68,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4265.9,"end":4266.82,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4266.88,"end":4267.9,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4267.96,"end":4269.4,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4269.46,"end":4270.58,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4270.64,"end":4271.8,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4271.94,"end":4273.46,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4273.56,"end":4274.8,"text":"He didn't do that."},{"start":4276.66,"end":4280.22,"text":"Well, that was a good case, wasn't it?"},{"start":4280.24,"end":4280.7,"text":"Oh, yeah."},{"start":4280.72,"end":4288.75,"text":"But do you know, I think you all have to do the same here, because in New York, if you've got that,"},{"start":4306.69,"end":4308.61,"text":"And he received our letter again."},{"start":4308.66,"end":4308.72,"text":"Yes."},{"start":4312.54,"end":4313.74,"text":"I like that very much."},{"start":4313.76,"end":4320.88,"text":"And every time I talk to someone, they say, well, Keith, not only gives him stuff, but he's helping a lot of people open doors."},{"start":4321.16,"end":4328.7,"text":"He could also say that Freeman Gosling, everybody, you know, he is one of the greatest boosters and the most helpful person."},{"start":4331.25,"end":4336.34,"text":"I don't think we need to do it."},{"start":4336.86,"end":4338.46,"text":"Oh, we can."},{"start":4338.64,"end":4339.74,"text":"Yes, we can."},{"start":4387.24,"end":4392.75,"text":"he can make himself available and would be glad to any time you want."},{"start":4392.77,"end":4400.46,"text":"As far as clear time is concerned, he could either make it at 4.30 today or 4.00 or 4.15 tomorrow."},{"start":4400.82,"end":4409.54,"text":"Tomorrow is a little easier for him, but it doesn't make any difference."},{"start":4409.7,"end":4410.86,"text":"And he'd be glad to do it."},{"start":4413.68,"end":4417.84,"text":"If you do that, I'll get you together with probably a four-year-old today."},{"start":4418.8,"end":4420.2,"text":"And then you'll be covered out."},{"start":4420.24,"end":4420.86,"text":"That's fine."},{"start":4420.92,"end":4429.91,"text":"He's over there, and he's got a cost-of-living council, et cetera, and he does some of them on the road."},{"start":4429.93,"end":4434.69,"text":"Some of the markets, well, there's that in the event, and we'll just come in and make it easy in the time after."},{"start":4435.01,"end":4435.95,"text":"They can make it for you, Mark."},{"start":4435.97,"end":4436.29,"text":"I'll set up."},{"start":4436.31,"end":4436.41,"text":"Okay."},{"start":4436.43,"end":4439.01,"text":"That'll be fine."},{"start":4439.15,"end":4441.81,"text":"If I have something, Mark, that's fine with me."},{"start":4444.07,"end":4445.41,"text":"You'll be clear at 315."},{"start":4447.34,"end":4448.98,"text":"What time did he say, 415?"},{"start":4449.02,"end":4449.64,"text":"Yeah, make it 430."},{"start":4449.68,"end":4449.94,"text":"430 tomorrow, OK?"},{"start":4450,"end":4456,"text":"If you want to do it earlier, he says, oh,"},{"start":4466.69,"end":4468.82,"text":"how to handle a French."},{"start":4468.92,"end":4472.2,"text":"I just thought, I sort of feel that he and I have a local conversation."},{"start":4472.22,"end":4475,"text":"And he basically wanted to chat about where we go."},{"start":4475.06,"end":4477.64,"text":"Apparently Henry hasn't discussed with me the question."},{"start":4477.86,"end":4482.29,"text":"He said he wanted to talk with you about what you want to do, because he had a feeling maybe he ought to take Volker with him."},{"start":4482.35,"end":4485.73,"text":"Because the French would never, not that they're not."},{"start":4486.13,"end":4491.87,"text":"It's been my understanding that Volker would report whoever he wanted to take, and he wasn't going to take a man with him."},{"start":4491.93,"end":4493.89,"text":"And we've been studying that whole thing on that basis."},{"start":4494.03,"end":4495.07,"text":"Roger."},{"start":4502.78,"end":4503.16,"text":"Whatever he wants."},{"start":4504.31,"end":4511.03,"text":"Whatever he feels, you know, if it's more than he wants for whoever it is, if he says whatever he wants, it will best help his kind of our needs."},{"start":4511.15,"end":4512.95,"text":"He pretty much has to have a truck."},{"start":4512.99,"end":4513.79,"text":"That's right."},{"start":4513.83,"end":4514.43,"text":"That's up to him."},{"start":4514.53,"end":4515.91,"text":"So he called me."},{"start":4515.93,"end":4516.57,"text":"Okay."},{"start":4517.05,"end":4517.41,"text":"Yep."},{"start":4517.69,"end":4519.03,"text":"I'll see you tomorrow at 4.30."},{"start":4519.11,"end":4519.23,"text":"Okay."},{"start":4519.41,"end":4523.41,"text":"I mean, that's a good call."},{"start":4523.43,"end":4532.22,"text":"Again, I have to ask you, I have to ask you, I have to ask you, I have to ask you, I have to ask you, I have to ask you, I have to ask you,"},{"start":4533.32,"end":4544.03,"text":"And that if there is no concrete evidence of progress shown after December 17, 1888 in Washington, he's afraid of what might do."},{"start":4556.21,"end":4558.25,"text":"He had an idea which I'll pick up otherwise."},{"start":4558.27,"end":4567.15,"text":"We had to get pictures even when they don't tell the name of the guy and autograph them to him because he thinks that's so good of you."},{"start":4567.23,"end":4575.64,"text":"And then of course that picture which we all know is as good as that one of the football fans."},{"start":4582.74,"end":4584.98,"text":"And then I'm going to show you something funny."},{"start":4585,"end":4589.07,"text":"I think Berlin is at this end, and I have to talk all over the place."},{"start":4589.09,"end":4592.81,"text":"If you haven't heard what they say, it's this actor who's made up to try to take your part."},{"start":4593.39,"end":4594.1,"text":"He looks like you."},{"start":4594.18,"end":4599.42,"text":"The only time he looks like you is when I'm talking to him."},{"start":4599.44,"end":4600.58,"text":"They say he's a prude, so I don't know."},{"start":4619.1,"end":4625.6,"text":"When you can't see any clothes on the side."},{"start":4652.28,"end":4674.18,"text":"We're putting the envelopes and dating the envelopes, because ."},{"start":4683.22,"end":4685.66,"text":"I'm not sure, but at least if they're by date, it'll sort of be the way you want it."},{"start":4685.68,"end":4686.08,"text":"Julie Lee, all right."},{"start":4686.12,"end":4692.32,"text":"Her schedule says she's going back to Virginia, but I don't know whether she's going in or not."},{"start":4692.47,"end":4693.16,"text":"You want me to find out?"},{"start":4693.36,"end":4693.47,"text":"Uh-oh."},{"start":4693.49,"end":4697.01,"text":"Well, she's early this morning."},{"start":4701.69,"end":4705.59,"text":"She's at a Christmas decoration."},{"start":4720.04,"end":4720.22,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":4793.5,"end":4794.2,"text":"Oh, okay."},{"start":4794.3,"end":4798.44,"text":"In some ways they did, but in some ways they didn't, too."},{"start":4798.48,"end":4806.51,"text":"You know, Eisenhower used to do his pretty personally."},{"start":4806.52,"end":4810.23,"text":"He had the luckiest of events that he did."},{"start":4820.12,"end":4825.14,"text":"but they were like, he had very solid energy."},{"start":4825.16,"end":4831.48,"text":"They had almost all the same people, didn't they?"},{"start":4840.43,"end":4840.77,"text":"Almost always."},{"start":4840.79,"end":4841.33,"text":"My God, yes, they were."},{"start":4841.35,"end":4841.91,"text":"I was trying to think."},{"start":4841.93,"end":4842.63,"text":"I can't even remember now."},{"start":4842.67,"end":4843.03,"text":"I'll use my life."},{"start":4843.05,"end":4843.43,"text":"They had a lot more."},{"start":4843.45,"end":4847.03,"text":"There wasn't as much going on in the world because they had an awful lot more"},{"start":4848.23,"end":4853.32,"text":"I didn't have time to play golf and breathe."},{"start":4853.34,"end":4855.33,"text":"Braves and everything, you know."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":3588,"end":4943,"startMethod":"tape_time","endMethod":"tape_time"},"transcriptConfidence":"low","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Rose Mary Woods and later H. R. Haldeman to coordinate various administrative tasks, scheduling matters, and public relations efforts. Discussions included the career status of labor mediator J. Curtis Counts, the logistics for upcoming presidential holiday appearances, and the scheduling of a meeting between John B. Connally and the President regarding the Cost of Living Council. Additionally, the participants reviewed personal correspondence and debated the nature of the modern presidency compared to previous administrations.","topics":["Presidential Scheduling","Labor Relations","Public Relations","Cost of Living Council","John B. Connally","White House Administration"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T01:25:10.265Z"},"topicSlugs":["presidential-scheduling","labor-relations","public-relations","cost-of-living-council","john-b-connally","white-house-administration"],"audioDurationSec":1355,"audioFiles":[{"file":"632a.mp3","bytes":176490160,"durationSec":7353.7,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false},{"file":"632b.mp3","bytes":91168181,"durationSec":3798.6,"bitrate":192003,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":true,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:51.998Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/632a.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/632b.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/632-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/632/conversation-632-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}