{"conversationCode":"634-015","tapeNumber":634,"conversationNumber":15,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-634-015","startDateTime":"1971-12-09T21:56:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-12-09T21:59:00.000Z","startDate":"9-Dec-1971","startTime":"4:56 PM","endDate":"9-Dec-1971","endTime":"4:59 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On December 9, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:56 pm to 4:59 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 634-015 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 634-15\n\nDate: December 9, 1971\nTime: 4:56 pm - 4:59 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n     India-Pakistan situation\n           -Kissinger’s view\n           -State Department\n                 -News summary\n           -Meeting with Vladimir V. Matskevich and Yuli M. Vorontsov\n                 -President’s view\n                 -Upcoming Moscow Summit\n                 -The President’s tone\n           -Pakistan\n           -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]\n                 -India\n                       -US appeal to USSR\n                       -Possible meeting with Richard M. Helms\n\n     [Unintelligible]\n\nKissinger left at 4:59 pm.","filename":["634-015.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:07:29","tapeEnd":"02:10:41","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"634-014","nextCode":"634-016","transcript":[{"start":0.09,"end":3.65,"text":"I'm sorry to put you through this, Mr. President, but this..."},{"start":3.73,"end":5.01,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":5.25,"end":7.09,"text":"I think we're going to make it, though."},{"start":7.17,"end":7.53,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":7.55,"end":9.73,"text":"Yes, I think we're going to make it."},{"start":9.81,"end":11.58,"text":"I think it's well heard."},{"start":11.6,"end":18.66,"text":"I expect the state department will be loyal to the president, and I do expect they'll be loyal to the governor."},{"start":18.82,"end":19.5,"text":"Not that."},{"start":19.52,"end":24.4,"text":"I don't know what I think, but I'm interested."},{"start":25.1,"end":26.4,"text":"It's also the way you like that."},{"start":26.46,"end":28.7,"text":"Because they're..."},{"start":30.05,"end":31.65,"text":"And they know they've disowned this thing."},{"start":31.69,"end":34.33,"text":"You know, I've been quoted from the news."},{"start":34.37,"end":35.55,"text":"Where they said the president is a moron."},{"start":35.58,"end":41.96,"text":"And I struck it to him in my thought pretty well where I said, I know the conventional diplomatic wisdom is you don't side with 60 million against 600 million."},{"start":42.02,"end":43.88,"text":"And I said, that isn't my attitude at all."},{"start":43.9,"end":46.34,"text":"It doesn't happen to be my view."},{"start":46.44,"end":55.66,"text":"It's not going to be the view of this government."},{"start":56.16,"end":57.36,"text":"We're sticking to it."},{"start":60.42,"end":61.54,"text":"Another way to stay around a bit over there."},{"start":61.56,"end":66.65,"text":"Another way that was made very well, too, which I can feel it."},{"start":66.67,"end":67.71,"text":"This was one of your great moments."},{"start":67.73,"end":68.15,"text":"I said, look, boys."},{"start":68.17,"end":70.05,"text":"You just couldn't understand it."},{"start":70.07,"end":71.81,"text":"Apparently, I'm going to get accursed because I'm not able to shine the rest."},{"start":71.87,"end":76.44,"text":"You get the impression I don't mean it."},{"start":76.46,"end":82.44,"text":"I said, I don't want you to understand it."},{"start":90.06,"end":96.13,"text":"is there isn't another political leader in this country who wouldn't say to himself, let's play it safe and go for the summit."},{"start":97.51,"end":99.81,"text":"And I think it will work."},{"start":99.83,"end":103.47,"text":"If it doesn't, well, I'm afraid."},{"start":103.57,"end":104.29,"text":"I'll say that."},{"start":104.33,"end":111.66,"text":"Mr. President, if the PACs don't play, then what do we say to the Russians?"},{"start":113.48,"end":115.38,"text":"That we are prepared to make that appeal with them."},{"start":115.66,"end":118.16,"text":"Then they'll have to say we can't deliver the PACs."},{"start":118.36,"end":119.7,"text":"Nature has to take its course."},{"start":122.86,"end":126.98,"text":"Or we say, no, we still tell the Russians to tell the Indians to stay the hell out of West Pakistan."},{"start":127.64,"end":127.98,"text":"That's right."},{"start":128.03,"end":128.95,"text":"Then they have the east."},{"start":129.03,"end":131.73,"text":"Then they'll say they have the east, but they must leave West Pakistan."},{"start":131.77,"end":132.37,"text":"That's right."},{"start":132.41,"end":134.09,"text":"That's our backup position, as I see it."},{"start":134.19,"end":137.15,"text":"I think that's the inevitable position."},{"start":137.19,"end":140.75,"text":"No, I think the Paks will play, but if they don't, they'll have to go."},{"start":142.87,"end":146.03,"text":"Now, why do you see homes?"},{"start":146.09,"end":147.25,"text":"Now, why do you say I don't live?"},{"start":147.29,"end":149.37,"text":"If the thing goes, let me take the time."},{"start":149.39,"end":149.63,"text":"All right."},{"start":152.6,"end":156.32,"text":"and then put down his concerto and he can't have pride."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to discuss the escalating India-Pakistan conflict and the potential necessity of U.S. intervention with the Soviet Union. Nixon affirmed his commitment to supporting Pakistan despite contrary diplomatic advice and concerns regarding the upcoming Moscow Summit. The two strategized on how to pressure the USSR to restrain India from invading West Pakistan, establishing a fallback position should their initial efforts fail.","topics":["India-Pakistan War","USSR","Diplomacy","Moscow Summit","Foreign Policy","West Pakistan"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T01:28:29.316Z"},"topicSlugs":["india-pakistan-war","ussr","diplomacy","moscow-summit","foreign-policy","west-pakistan"],"audioDurationSec":165,"audioFiles":[{"file":"634-015.mp3","bytes":6622350,"durationSec":165.43,"bitrate":320243,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:54.662Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/634-015.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/634-015","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/634/conversation-634-015","catalogNaId":417180299,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417180299","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}