Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 635-015
Date: Friday, December 10, 1971 at 12:19 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Packard, David; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/635-015
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417180361 (NAID 417180361)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] All right.
[0:04] All right.
[0:11] All right.
[0:13] All right.
[0:27] I thought we'd better do it when Blair got back, because we don't need to do it all the way.
[0:32] We can't.
[0:33] We don't want to do it.
[0:35] We want to do it now.
[0:37] You see, the Congress is here.
[0:38] I had to be in a position to do it.
[0:41] But Henry said we didn't do it, and I think Blair ought to be here.
[0:47] Well, we'll be here at 1.15 today, so come here.
[0:53] Yeah.
[0:54] They did very well over there.
[0:56] So, uh...
[0:58] I'll set a group.
[0:58] Okay.
[0:59] Our boat now, and Bill will come back today.
[1:03] Bill, I believe it's a contract later tonight, and I'm coming back to get it.
[1:07] Oh, I see.
[1:09] And I'll set a group on the sign.
[1:11] I'll set a group on the sign with some funds for housing, and by the terms, and I haven't seen the details.
[1:17] And what's in the bill is a good job.
[1:24] Actually, sir.
[1:24] Mr. President, I feel very sorry about that.
[1:27] Well, I'll tell you about this, but I hope you understand.
[1:31] It's just a simple term that I had to make with the Senate.
[1:35] It was good for two years, and I've assessed it to three, and I don't know if I can't resign as of Monday.
[1:41] And I want you to know that you have my good support.
[1:47] In fact, I may be able to be more helpful to you next year.
[1:53] Well, let me say this.
[1:59] I don't know how the hell we got here in the first place.
[2:04] I mean, for you to come and take this damn job, it's a tough job.
[2:09] It's an anguished job, and we couldn't have run it without you.
[2:12] The second thing is that I know that you have to go through these crises that we've had.
[2:21] My God, Cambodia, Laos, Jordan.
[2:25] And needless to say, he, and all the rest, and he's really been a power of strength there.
[2:34] I know that he's sitting down there with what Henry comes late for, a blessing.
[2:41] But it must be a, it must have been quite a, quite a journey, apart from all the management functions that you had, if you could go there.
[2:50] Well, the country's been lucky.
[2:51] That's right.
[2:51] And what you gave up, I mean,
[2:54] Mr. President, the country's lucky I had you, and I was proud to be able to study.
[2:58] Well, I really did.
[2:59] I guess since I don't know whether we'll survive, we'll try.
[3:03] I'm just sorry that I can't do more, but I will do more.
[3:07] Well, let me say that I think, as a matter of fact, you could be enormously helpful on the outside.
[3:15] You know, there is a need among basically the kind of people you meet, the business elite, let's face it, the business elite,
[3:25] They need to understand what we're trying to do is the right thing.
[3:29] I need to support it.
[3:30] I need to be articulate about it.
[3:32] I think that can be helpful.
[3:34] They'll respect you if you've been there.
[3:36] Well, at least I can report it from a first-hand experience, and that'll make some credibility.
[3:41] You're in the business council.
[3:44] Yes.
[3:44] You're in the business council.
[3:47] Will you go back to California?
[3:48] Yes, I will go back to California.
[3:50] Yeah.
[3:52] We live in Los Alamos, which is beautiful.
[4:08] I'm flexible.
[4:09] You don't have to be a full-time.
[4:12] I hope not for a while.
[4:14] You've been so comfortable.
[4:17] You know, you're going to find, I guess, I remember when I left the Vice Presidency, you know, we all forgot where it was and all the parties and everything.
[4:37] you're gonna find you're gonna find that
[5:01] Well, in a sense, it's a relief not to have those damn old pressures and all these people to talk to.
[5:07] You may find that having moved on this track and this, you know, and that not, well, it's like coming home from war, I guess.
[5:16] You, that what you, what you will find when you return is that much as you love where you will be and the people and all the rest,
[5:32] It'll never be the same.
[5:33] I mean, you know, you can't go home again.
[5:39] And you, for that reason, I think, should plan to move.
[5:46] Well, you always have moved on that national scene, but you could never go back to run the company again.
[5:55] Never.
[5:56] I have a number of ideas of what I might want to do.
[6:00] Right.
[6:01] One other thing I wanted to say, Mel has a good team over there now.
[6:07] He's got a good team and he can get along fine.
[6:10] I'll stay around and help him informally so the rest of the year or longer if he needs it, I can help him work out the transition.
[6:17] So it would be my kind of thing to be able to do that.
[6:21] I may have to make some decisions that he'll have to use his signature for to work out the transition.
[6:29] How do you feel about the meeting of Smyrna and the defense budget with what they call the Conservatives, Goldwater Valley and Colorado?
[6:41] Do you feel that the defense budget is getting pretty comfortable about it?
[6:49] This level that we recommended in the paper that you all read this week, from 1979 to 1980, the expenditure is, I think,
[6:58] It's all right.
[6:59] Now, that, as you know, can be printed at about $2 billion more than that, if you wish to do so.
[7:05] That includes...
[7:06] They print it lower than by action.
[7:09] Well, I think that's what George has thought.
[7:14] It's printed at $76,500 or something like that.
[7:19] Well, it might have been in the obligation authority of 82.
[7:23] That's about right.
[7:24] It might have to be a little bit higher than that.
[7:28] What figure do you think it should be?
[7:48] Well, I'm trying to figure out what we'll do with as much as we can.
[7:54] I'm pretty careful.
[7:55] 79.5 is as low as I think we should go.
[7:59] That would be the chance of going down to 77.5 instead of 76.5.
[8:05] And I think that extra $1 billion will be very helpful.
[8:12] and maintaining an image of strength, which I think is desirable to do, both in terms of your individual problems, and I think in terms of domestic problems.
[8:23] So we have a person from 1979 to 1975.
[8:26] That would, I think, be better than 1975.
[8:29] And we can get the forces and work out all the details of that.
[8:36] That might have come out somewhere 82, 83 feet away.
[8:41] I want to talk about the land effector.
[8:43] I want to be sure we talk about the land effector.
[8:50] We've got to do it.
[8:51] This involves accelerating the OMS program and keeping the R&D going up.
[8:59] R&D?
[8:59] Research and development.
[9:01] Yeah, research and development.
[9:05] Obviously, it's not fun.
[9:07] None of the services are getting everything they'd like to have, but I think this is a good balanced plan.
[9:16] The services will know.
[9:16] They don't know that $79,500 is a real number.
[9:21] Oh, yeah, so no problem with that.
[9:24] As a matter of fact, we've been getting longer.
[9:26] We should be getting more.
[9:27] Hell, I'd put it at 85 if these budget problems are in our hands.
[9:34] Well, no, I think from any standpoint, it's desirable to have it below 80 as long as we can have some things that show some strength in them, which we can have.
[9:49] There are one or two alternatives.
[9:53] should be considered at the last minute if you want to show some additional strength as an issue of whether we buy more H-111s.
[10:03] That has a strength posture.
[10:05] It also has a job impact.
[10:07] I'm sure you know what would be the cost.
[10:10] That would add another $140 million.
[10:14] But again, wherever they need it, that work would be done with that.
[10:19] Fort Worth would be the headquarters, but it would also, that would impact the California plant.
[10:27] 140, anything else in that score?
[10:30] I just like having my mind, it's like, well, that's one.
[10:33] Is there another one?
[10:34] Yeah, that's a great thing.
[10:41] There's several more.
[10:42] I don't know that I would recommend any of this.
[10:47] Let me do this.
[10:48] You can give me your confidential list.
[10:50] We'd like to get a few words from you.
[10:53] Give it over to Henry.
[10:54] Just a little confidential list of a few little things that could have a sharp impact and that would help the defense thing.
[11:06] There is one very important one that has to do with setting up our command and control capabilities.
[11:15] And we're working on that with your people in terms of a possible amendment after the first of the year.
[11:22] Well, this is to move ahead an accelerated program of airborne command posts.
[11:28] It's an airborne command post, and that is very important because that indicates an improvement in our ability to control our strategic air forces.
[11:43] And this would have good visibility, and in fact, it needs to be done.
[11:56] That would impact specifically Boeing.
[12:02] And it would be important to the job impact in that state.
[12:14] That could be done after the first of the year.
[12:18] Can you say that after the first of the year?
[12:22] I think that would be presented as an important issue.
[12:29] We will have a specific list.
[12:31] I already have this.
[12:32] I'll just call all the other key items.
[12:41] Now, I have a
[12:43] Copy of the letter.
[12:45] I'll send it to you.
[12:47] This way.
[13:26] Yeah.
[13:27] Yeah.
[13:32] Sure.
[13:33] Sure.
[13:33] Yeah.
[14:01] Well, I want to be very sure that this is clear to everyone that this is a personal reassurance.
[14:07] There's no question about my support for you and your policy.
[14:12] Oh, I appreciate that.
[14:14] I'm sure there's no misunderstanding about that.
[14:17] So whatever, we'll be helpful on that deal.
[14:30] We'll be obviously around there.
[14:34] Thank you.
[14:36] Thank you.
[14:37] Did I give you the money, though?
[14:40] Did I give you the money?
[14:50] I don't think so.
[14:50] I don't think so.
[14:52] I don't think so.
[14:53] I don't think so.
[14:54] I don't think so.
[14:56] I don't think so.
[14:57] I don't think so.
[15:00] Now that money, as a real honest man, as the president you see, I, you know, as a secret servant, I've never carried a dollar in my pocket since I've been in the other... Now this is...
[15:22] The worst that may happen is it would
[15:52] Unless you get the humanitarian impact to have some protection.
[15:58] Well, of course, we work.
[15:59] We don't have much leverage.
[16:02] We haven't had much leverage yet.
[16:05] Now, we can give them a little bag here.
[16:09] It's just cool for a while.
[16:12] Well, that has been effective.
[16:14] I'm convinced that if you move ahead with your plan,
[16:27] So we're working on it.
[16:28] We see if you know we're coming to Russia to help us.
[16:30] But that's a long time.
[16:33] Well, we'll see you.
[16:34] Thank you again.
[16:35] Thanks a lot.
[16:35] Thanks a lot, sir.
[16:37] We'll see you around.
[16:38] Thanks.