Conversation 636-011

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Hi, how are you?

All right.

What kind of shots would you like?

Just casuals, or sitting, or talking?

What would be the company's choice?

Well, we sit down.

And we go to the various rooms.

It might be good for you to come along.

I'd like to do that, too.

Well, what would you like?

I read your book.

I read a lot of your books, and what would you like to get out of them?

It's a rather, rather, rather crazy one.

It's a hard, hard, hard one to describe.

Yes.

You know, it has this tremendous feel of momentum that you've created here.

Also,

the feeling of following through, tenacity.

And yet one also senses a kind of private self.

And while one doesn't want to invade on that, one hopes that maybe we could, you know, I, even I, when we come to the White House, you always have a feeling that

you're stepping into the history, and one gets a bigger than life sense of it.

And certainly, well, you've got Abraham Lincoln there.

That's by Leo Sherman, incidentally.

If you know him, you know him.

And he did that, and he also, his role also in another one, John Sherman in the theater.

I mean, I don't know.

I know nothing about .

That's just .

No.

As a matter of fact, he said I've done it, and he said I'd like to bring this and have it.

So he pretended .

I've known him for years.

He called me when I was in the house days.

But he does, and he has been waged about it.

He's a sculptor.

So then I saw, you know, we have a great number of things to this, and I wanted to do it here.

I wasn't personally one of you.

I will never sit for long.

I sat for the vice presidential self-drawns, and I, we haven't put it out, but it's torture to sit for so long.

It was called The Sins and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and Orphans and

I have more people who want to take pictures.

They go in there and say, we didn't do that.

We didn't do that.

No way.

That's a person of mine who must have wanted to do it.

Well, I don't know.

You want to say it doesn't deal with the office.

Do you feel a tendency to...

Physically, are there some things that you've particularly done here?

In the office?

Yeah.

The office, and actually, the Oval Office reflects every man that's in it.

I've only been in the Oval Office in, well, yes, I've been here in four residencies.

Interestingly enough, I came here, and I've always appreciated the sense

vigorous political opponents of one kind.

Harry Truman received Charlie Kirsten, a congressman from Wisconsin and I when we were freshmen, freshman congressmen.

And we had been, we were very interested, Kirsten and I, in Eastern Europe at that time, and had called on several of the

the Polish ambassador and the rest, you know, talking about, you know, East-West relations, all over the sense of the Polish-American groups in this country.

And so we're going.

And, you know, it was very, you know, it was all down to my house and my defense.

called the President.

As I look back on it, it was such a, so much to respect for the President of the United States to seem too fresh with the public and Congress.

I seem fresh with the Democratic Congressmen and so forth, but I had all, I had all the Congressmen and Congressmen and all the Senators and all the Rats, and so forth and so on.

But I had a lot of problems to work out to be a President.

And Eric Truman had a stand with us along the tenements.

But I remember he called Globe.

He had a Globe there.

He took us over to the Globe.

And that was my only recollection of the conversation.

And he showed us the Globe.

And we had some time.

And I suppose that's one of the reasons he received us.

Both of us had supported him.

I was in the office very often, period.

I always had to be the most useful.

But I, of course, I never failed, though, in coming into the office then.

But I never failed to have, even though I was vice president, even at the end of the eight years, some

that feeling of, I guess you would describe it as awe in walking into this room.

It wasn't just the relationship between the vice president and the president.

It wasn't that.

And it's the room.

The room, this place, has an effect on people.

It had an effect on the vice president.

It certainly had an effect on a freshman congressman.

I remember when I walked in here, oh, I said, five minutes.

And I sat over there the day after the day of peace.

I happened to be in Washington.

And Jack Kennedy called me and asked me to come over.

And he sat in the rocking chair.

And I sat there in one of those chairs.

The chairs were here.

And I reached out and paced the floor.

and talked about the, you know, the tragedy of the Bay of Pigs, and how some of the intelligence estimates were wrong, and so on and so forth.

And afterwards, he took me out to the car.

So I saw him here then.

And actually, of course, I saw Johnson after I was selected president and came in then, a long time.

Well, what I can say is that I have seen big businessmen, educated people, the biggest people in the country will walk into this room.

And because of the room, the great majority of them become

somewhat almost untied.

And they later admit it.

The room has an effect on people.

It has a... Now, that, of course, that has to do with the majesty of the office, the power of the office.

It has to do something, too.

So, the...

One of the reasons that I, that I find that having meetings in other places is a good thing is that I find that the least, the least relaxed people are in this room.

That even includes campers.

Even Sanders, I can go over to EOD and you see what you see there.

It's a different atmosphere.

There's more black people, quite a few black people.

Camp David, of course, is different with that respect.

And, of course, when I go to Florida and California, this office, it's a mystical fact for people like him.

And now I suppose I say that because it had that effect on me when I was a congressman, when I was a vice president.

But I have to remind myself sometimes when people come in to see me that I have to draw them out because they simply, and I do that all the time, whenever I see them in this office,

they simply forget what they came in to say, or nervous, or they tie up, and they sit down.

In fact, where you really get the most, obviously, a person who is a big business man, or a political man, or something of that sort, when he comes in, he would dream of admitting that he was overawed.

But we do see, you know, on days,

The people who come in for award ceremonies and rest.

And they make a complex eye effect.

They say, gee, you know, I was thinking all day what I was gonna say, and I don't know what to say.

Now, also, the way the person uses the role, this is not setting criticism on the way Johnson operated, because he is one kind of a man.

But as you know, there was a few jokes made in the event.

I came in and took the television sets off.

There were three television sets right there, a tree in the room, and there, inside, which was my ending.

And there was a ticker in there, too.

Now, I can no more stand having

I don't have a television set in my bedroom.

I don't have any of the places I live.

I don't have...

It isn't that I don't follow that, but I do it in a different way.

I organize my day in such a way that I probably know more.

I probably have a more balanced, total view of all the news.

than anybody that's been in this office due to the fact that I do not get bogged down

or obsess about part of the news.

In other words, that's the much-maligned, and sometimes praised, news summary that we see, which you're welcome to look at any time now.

It says, here's the television coverage last night, here's the newspaper coverage, it covers columns from all over the country, it covers the news magazine, I get a news magazine for it and all the rest.

But I can sit down in the morning,

And I'll take that statement, and I will spend as much, as little as 10 minutes, as little as 10, sometimes I'll spend 20, 30 minutes, 20, but as little as 10 minutes, and I can scan that, and I'll know more about the news than if I sat down and read the New York Times through, or the Washington Post through, or watch the television program at night, or read the press, or all the rest, because you get obsessed with one

story that way, or one side of the difference.

Whereas here, you get the total difference.

Now, on the other hand, I compensate you for that kind of quick overview.

by my weekend reading.

On the weekend reading, I hear Price and Buchanan and, you know, Sapphire, they'll pick out, they'll say, here are things that really deserve special attention.

And that's why I'll pick up a piece by Al Ott on prisons or something like that.

I thought it was a good day.

talking about school integrations, and I got the surprise that I'd seen some decent commentary.

Well, it's only because it's no reflection on time, which everybody's supposed to read.

But I read a lot of offbeat things.

I'll picture them.

They'll give me stuff on the New Republic or on the other side of the client, the National Review.

I don't mean to suggest that I read a great deal of that, because then there isn't enough time.

But I prefer to read a few things very well, and concentrate on them, to get an overview of all of them.

Because I need to know what people are seeing.

I need to know what the people are seeing, what they're thinking, what they're hearing in order to be able to communicate the administration's views, my own views, to the people in order to know how we are communicating.

And also, there's another side, another thing about this.

I strongly advise young people

political people, don't watch yourself on television.

And I go further.

Not only watch yourself, you become self-conscious.

Now, that's probably not a good advice.

I've never seen myself on television.

Nobody believes it, but I don't.

Except I go to the West.

The other thing is, but I don't watch myself make the speech.

The other thing is that if an individual sits before the box at night, I mean the man in this office, and then he sees that news,

cracking here, here, here, or he picks it off with a ticker and responds in hot blood to the news, the hot news, he will not make rough decisions.

I think decisions have to be made

And I use the term, not that I don't think, I don't want to give the impression I'm going to bore a part of my claims down, but decisions, great decisions, if they are to be good decisions, must be made coldly.

And I mean, at the end of the day, the president must be cold.

That's why I like the word very clean, as you know, the room is totally clean.

People come in, they're surprised, this desk is clean.

This desk is always clean.

I don't have old files.

I work with a clean desk.

Except when I'm, for example, at Camp David or over at the UOP or something like that, you'll see it's rather disheartening because I'll have books out.

If I'm writing a speech, I have stuff all over the place.

But I believe, I found that this office,

And whoever is in this office cannot afford to have a life that is not ordered.

He must live like a Spartan from the standpoint of his physical condition.

That's why in terms of diet, in terms of eating, in terms of drinking, in terms of sleeping, in terms of everything else, I believe that you've got to save yourself so that if you're at your best, it counts.

And second, in terms of mentalism,

He physically doesn't.

He mentally doesn't.

And what I think John Connick asked a few moments ago is that he has somehow the same approach, although he's doing it.

But it's very important in making

the big decisions, to approach them in a balanced, disciplined way.

And that is why I'll get it all in here.

I'll hear it all.

I don't know if this is just that I... Well, let me put it another way.

the way some have made them, or you go around the table and in fact say, well, if you didn't vote, or this seems to be the consensus of it.

I like to hear everybody, but then I come in here, or I go to the Lincoln sitting room, or I'm at Camp David, or I go where the EOB, and then I'm excited.

sometimes right on the spot, but the decisions that are important must be made.

Although, I'll bounce it, I'll get all pledged, and I make them fast enough, but there's one other thing I should say.

I have absolute rules.

I refuse to waste my time

He's making decisions that somebody else can make better.

Let me put it this way.

I think it was once said about Grover Cleveland that he signed every bill, he read every bill, and that's why he was president for eight years and any president in the history of each other in eight years.

And he was a good president.

On the other hand, it was said about Cleveland that he had a passion

that he would rather do something poorly himself than to delegate it to somebody else and do it better.

I, perhaps, have learned delegation.

But one of the things I do, I delegate.

I mean, when I have developed confidence in certain individuals, those individuals come in.

And they say, well, we've considered everything.

And if I know she considers it, all right, I'll sign off on it.

And off she goes.

But then that leaves my time free to spend a great amount of effort on the important decisions.

I believe that the most important

The first rule of leadership in this office, and for Jack Lanny in particular here, must be save yourselves for the big decisions.

Be your best in the big decisions.

Don't let your mind get cluttered up with trivia.

Don't let your mind that that is better than getting back your dollars and cents.

Don't let yourself become the issue.

The idea that you heard all this business about the press and all that and so forth and so on.

If I were to sit around and read my press stories and the criticisms and so forth, I'd be mad at half the press for half the time.

I never think in personal terms about the press.

No, you can't.

To me, they have a job.

Some are going to write again.

Some are going to write more.

But all I want to know is what they are writing.

Because I know what they write and what they say affects the country.

And I don't know what the problem is, but I never take it personal.

One thing, for example, in my readings, I tell the Newstalk people, when I don't succeed completely in this, I say, leave out the club pieces and leave out anything that is purely personal.

And we don't care about it.

Because what we've got to do is to concentrate on the issues.

I'm an issue reader rather than a personal reader.

Well, I've given you enough to feel that.

You're getting to your wedding, Mr. President.

Are there some people or some things that you sometimes go back to read, maybe some piece of history or some poet or something in the Bible or some piece of philosophy?

Mainly in the reading field, I'm basically a history buff.

Well, and history of biography.

I suppose if you were to pick out anything, it was Sandburg's Land, which I reread, reread, and I reread.

It's poetic, of course.

And at its best, it could be remembered.

Churchill.

not on the Second World War, which was more, of course, exciting to many, but on the first.

Some of the writing on that is just fantastic.

And then in , the Blake's Disraeli,

to see a great deal of the biographical material on T.R.

Wilson, Jefferson, mainly the American presence, of course, and the very Churchill-Israeli .

Do you keep the tire, President?

No.

No, I should.

Now and then, now and then, I will put something in the dictaphone.

I should.

And I know that if I kept the diary, it would be priceless.

And years later, I don't need terms of money.

I just don't remember these things that happened.

But now and then, I will pick up the dictaphone and just

know something that I, it may not be very important, but it may be something that's extremely interesting.

And I put it in, and I'll write it off on this, and I'll just give it to my secretary, but I don't have it transcribed, but I'll just file it.

There's a few tapes around here.

But no diary of any, of any kind.

I have it on my bed stand.

how we have made notes of things.

And then the next morning, I'll come off and tell them to do this and that or the other thing on the board of the police.

Little things, for example, were going to be on the wall the next week, and I heard that Mr. Dell, the name will mean nothing to you, Mr. Dell, the name may mean something to you, who was for many years the manager that caught the ambassador to be dying a couple weeks ago, and I want to be sure that's why he got our name as a citizen today.

Well, when you wake up at night, yeah.

Usually you wake up between 12 and 2 o'clock.

And when I do, almost inevitably, my mind's clear.

And if I'm working on a speech or something, I'll make some notes.

that I then, the next day, will look at in the cold light of day, in the cold light of day.

And some of the best things that I do, some of the best speeches, when I am writing a speech, and some of the best things does come in the middle of the night.

But these are notes, but it is a speech.

It's just a routine notes.

I will think of a dozen things that I should do tomorrow, and I'll make notes of them.

And the next day, I'll come in and knock them off.

I do not dictate to a secretary, one of your vice-chairs here, she's certainly been with me such a long time, I can tell her to send a note to this or that, and then you express to me something.

But I use a dictaphone.

I work better with a dictaphone now than ever.

And also, as you will see from these other rooms,

I sit in a chair, pick up the dictaphone, run it off, and then just run a page over it.

I do the real pros of all my work.

Well, the pros are Mark Hacker, who is with her also.

But I have a dictaphone.

I have a little dictaphone.

I have a lot of reflection.

I have a small one that I pick up and use from time to time.

You say you do that now, and that's changed since you... No, when I first came to Congress, for example, as a congressman, I did all your bailing, and I dictated.

Yeah, I did get a dictation.

I remember until my second year, it became equipment that they made available to Congressmen in 1948, and then I started to use it.

I turned completely from secretaries to dictators.

I do almost everything exclusively.

Is there some decision that you made in this office that sticks with you?

It's very difficult to say where decisions are made.

Of course, I'm curious, would you, your presidency, would you associate this office with even walking out of the office and coming in?

Well, it's hard to say.

People talk about Cambodia as being perhaps the most difficult decision that you had to make.

And I swear that was me.

Well, actually, I think my recollection is not clear.

Yes?

Yes, the final?

that's made here, and not the decision, but the final order that were given here in this office.

Actually, the same as me told that he would be when I was over there.

My November 3rd speech, for example, in 1969, in 1968, yeah, 69, I didn't count data in the office up there.

So there's an office retired.

This office is not used so much for making decisions.

This is an informal office.

I receive people.

I call them in.

It is, and we have sometimes have discussion.

But when I get here to this office, the decision has been made, I let people present views and that sort of thing.

And when I want to have a really good, attentive discussion, I'll even pull into the EOB.

Or I'll have seen a candidate or something like that.

But in this office, your comment here sort of declared, this is basically the normal office.

And decisions, I do not make decisions

Formally.

I mean, quietly.

But after you talk to somebody, I mean, it's funny, they're breaking around.

You know, like, for example, on the legislative matter today, Clark Greger was over at the O.B.

and went over to the House.

He said, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do?

Tell them about the...

I made a decision right then as to whether we would sign or not the campaign bill in case...

had certain provisions he didn't want us to do it.

Just like that.

And he asked you a couple other questions.

Do you spend time talking to Mrs. Nixon?

The White House, the way I might talk with Mrs. Schechter about our house.

You mean about what aspects of the White House?

Like what?

Oh, you're going to get me to do something about the broad story.

No, no.

She's really in charge of that.

She has excellent taste.

She sometimes asks me about things.

But this is a typical of my approach.

I just leave it to the experts.

She's an expert in that field, and I try to stay out of it.

Now and then, for example, like Maggie's, now and then, I do know something about wines.

I'll sort of pick a wine for something very special.

But even the entertainment in the White House,

That's always a matter of course.

Shouldn't we have a violinist or a cellist or a singer or this, that, or the other thing?

When I first here, they used to bring it in to me, and I would check it over.

They used to bring the guest list, and I'd check it over.

I finally got it worked out now that I've got people in my encampments, and I only let them bring to me something that they can't decide.

And all the others decide that.

Back to the total list.

If anybody does anything for me, I never second-guess them.

Never second-guess them.

Nobody, no secretary, no aide, nobody's ever been dressed down for what he's done, if I had given him the assignment.

And that's why Rose Woods, for example, makes up the guest list.

And other people say, gee, why did she include that jerk?

And I'll say, well, she's right.

He's a jerk.

Where did you acquire taste practice about wanting to learn about wine?

Just the other hand.

You see, when I was the vice president, we traveled to many, many countries.

And I first went to all these diplomatic insurgencies.

I didn't know a thing about wine.

So when I came, I thought champagne was good.

Now I can't stand it.

But because of your discipline, I gather you feel that you have a rigorous diet.

I don't advise it.

I suppose a kind of public image price that you had to pay, and that you don't appreciate good food.

And yet, obviously, when I saw you at dinner in Carino, I said, I never would have asked you that.

No, I couldn't get very excited about going to a good restaurant tonight.

But when it comes to a good wine, I particularly

I'm a very expert, but I know most of it.

And frankly, I don't have them unless they are good.

I never touch them.

I've learned that on any mission, sir.

Do you relax at the end of the day?

Normally people come home from work and they like to put on their slippers, have a drink.

Well, it depends.

If I'm in the midst of preparing for a press conference or writing a speech or something of that sort, very little I go through.

we very quietly and so forth.

But I can't emphasize too much that there has to be some of the Spartan-like existence.

My relaxation is, if, for example, during the week I relax, a lot of the glass of wine and I may have a drink, but I don't...

I could no more, for example, go over and have a couple of belts.

And then, that work, as I have to do many evenings, worked well.

I mean, I just would never develop that capability.

When I had all three of my larynxes on, like on a weekend sometimes, like on a camp date, or a blog, or a cell phone, or something, then I'd like to be totally with it.

But I must have nothing to do the next day.

And that's the only time I would relax.

I also never would have thought of that.

I think there's an obligation of whoever's in the office to not to, I mean, the individuals in this office is expected to maintain a certain quality of life.

Dignity, aloofness, call it what you want.

Friendly, yes, but he isn't if they say, just be like the ordinary guy.

They don't want that way.

They don't want, you know, the President of the United States getting stoned, or a little sloppy, or a little loud, or a little vulgar.

I mean, sure, he's a very human person, and they want to see him sometimes.

And they want to think he is, but they don't want him to act that way.

They want him to act a little differently, because he is the leader.

He's expected to set some sort of example.

And also, if they see the president out kicking up his heels a lot and eating too much, drinking too much, talking too loud, I think the confidence factor should be very sharply shaped.

their great crises, though they don't want it to be just deadly serious.

But I think people want to feel that whoever's president

is a man, particularly the president of this country, that if there's a crisis and one could come up at any time, he's going to be cool and calm and sober, ready to handle it.

Now, they don't want to think he's an enemy.

By the same token, it's very difficult to say that they want to think he's a human guy, that he likes his wife and his kids and has a good time and so forth and so on.

But I have not gone.

I know that many of my press guys would go out and, you know, go dancing and raise a little hell.

Was there some point, though, that you developed this idea about the dignity of the presidency and what the people expect?

I mean, did you, because you may have seen

Well, I felt this later, as I carried the Eisenhardt Parade.

I could see what it meant.

I mean, I think that one of Eisenhardt's greatest contributions was to the dignity of the office.

Of course, he was born to an extent, his military, his position of leadership, the fact that from the time he began World War II, he was really at the top of the world.

these things, you are important, you inquire, but they can take the opposite.

When you came in, I can't resist asking this, Mr. President, when you came in here as a young congressman, did I ever think I was going to be here again?

Oh, absolutely not.

I am one of the few, believe me, I guess there are a few,

But believe me, I didn't have the slightest idea that I was going to be president when I was a congressman.

And as a matter of fact, people didn't know that.

But I was really surprised when I was selected for vice president.

I mean, in Chicago, it's true.

No, I never had any illusions on that score.

or standing right beyond what I say.

I was assumed to be right, because I was very active as a congressman.

And right beyond congressman has people come up and say, do you want to be president someday?

They've said that to me, and they've said it a hundred times.

But I haven't interpreted the impression of it.

You were the first president that said that you should be a leader.

That's right.

Why did you win?

Because I felt that this office was written simply not a place you could concentrate.

And this is an office to see people.

And this is an office to be formal.

And you're concentrating.

You've got to change gear.

You've got to sit down in a place.

You see, I have to think.

I don't mean to.

Extraordinary respect.

But where the important decisions are made, I make them.

You know, I point out, I delegate them.

But I don't, as anybody who works with me will tell you, I know more about that than any of the staff does at the time I've been through.

So I work hard, and I think hard, and I've got to do it alone.

Now, you cannot be alone in this office room.

You really can't.

This is no place.

You can make quick decisions like that, but if you're going to have to meditate, you should be awake.

Even the EOP is in the best place.

That's good.

You will see.

Can't leave us a little better sometimes, like you said, at night.

Changing gears is good.

My little robot in California is very good, and I am on the floor.

I have more rooms to work in present history.

It's because I find as I move around,

can do a different viewpoint.

Which is, you've got to stay out of the rough.

Do you feel personally that you have hit a new stride in the last few months?

Well, actually, it's sort of coming together events.

I mean, you know, the Chinese summit, the Russian summit, and all that.

Those things were set in motion from the day we got here.

And they came together.

Now on the economic side, of course,

There's great events that require the action we have to take.

I mean, you can't wind down a war without having a very, very agonizing transition.

Inflation on the one side, increased on the final on the rest, so we had to move on.

And so what we did, well, decisively on that, the China thing, the Russian summit, the rest of it, everybody said, well, this is the new boldness and the rest of it.

And the point is, you had to do it at the right time.

And this was the time to do it.

That's my view, at least, what others think otherwise.

And they may be right.

No one ever really judges us off.

Nobody judges us off.

That's why you have to read your critics and press.

And I don't have many of them.

I said the second one.

Those who may be their supporters.

Do you seem more relaxed about the press?

Oh, sure.

Yes, yes, I had, as you know, I had my run at the President of California.

But my view about it is, my view about it is that in this office, you have to be, and I don't, I don't advise this for Congressmen or Senators.

even for a vice president.

Because they use their title.

You know what I mean?

They can hurt a human, and the press is going to have to press conditions out.

They've got to learn to take it.

But I think in this office, the reason that I do that, I say the same of my critics in the Senate, too, my political critics.

They don't get on my stand at all.

It is that I don't care what they say.

I care about the substance of how they say it, whether it's in the Senate or whether it's somebody from outside, the critics of business or labor or the rest.

It never bothers me personally.

I made up my mind when I became president.

Nothing's going to bother me personally.

I have no personal animosities about it.

I may strongly disagree with this or that or the other thing, but I don't personally.

Now, what did the press?

If the individual reads the press and sees an untold and he gets fancy, that's not a retro, this and that, and so forth and so on, inevitably, that will distort his decision-making process.

It will distort his ability.

It will erode his ability.

I've got the right word.

It will erode his ability to make the decision correctly.

You can't do it when you

When you're mad at somebody, for example, you don't make a good decision about that, either that or about something else.

And I don't mean to laugh, but I don't .

Sometimes I get irritated.

A lot of them I do.

But I reduce it more than most simply by discipline.

That's why when I read critical arts, I may do it on the weekend.

rather than getting all booked.

But I never allow, I would never start mourning myself by reading through the Washington Post.

Or the New York Times.

Now, on the other hand, nobody knows better than I do what both the Washington Post and the New York Times say editorially, but I know at the end of the week.

See, I know what I have to know.

But if I start mourning, I start mourning, I look at the Herb Lockhart, and I say, oh, that's, I bet that's not a comment.

This mental discipline that you talked about, is that something that you feel you've built to?

I've developed it over the years.

You have to be disciplined around campaigning.

You have to be disciplined.

Also, you learn a lot of stuff from just the...

Just the experience of great victories and great defeats.

And so I've earned both.

I've had the benefit of both.

If you want the benefit of the treat, I've had it.

You see?

And that is discipline.

Now, discipline is a... And I believe the first two have been not perfect.

I have my moments when I'm not as disciplined as I might be, but not many.

I always believed, for example, that the press is already just a little cooler than the NFL.

Or in the foreign media, we have some pretty good goes with some of those laws.

We'd better continue with the walk.

Because of that, you must see the barrel before we talk.

Look off this way.

That's the older, that's the father of the Peetles.

That's the son, I think.

I know there's so many Peetles.

That's Julie's crew here.

And a little while ago at the other side,