Nixon, Flanigan & Haldeman on Ambassadorships and Foreign Policy

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Yeah.

Rossi can see you here in the back room unless you want to go to the residency.

No, I have to have it out here where I can see.

Is he by himself?

Yeah, he's by himself.

You know, Mr. President, the real policy for that proposal is that they treat savings banks, savings and loans like regular banks.

Now, the big savings and loans

Like Howard Edgerton, they're going to be able to compete when they can take second counts.

But the little guys will be pushed pretty hard to the wall.

And that's why this thing, while it does inject competition into the financial world, there's going to be a lot of crockery broken as we go along.

There are a lot of other good things in it.

That's so much a key to it.

What I think we ought to do is just

put it on the back burner until after November, do our own homework, but not get committed on it.

Don't be too narrow, though.

Don't be too sure that the President is maintaining the President's system and driving, and they've worked on this a long time.

You bet.

Well, let's look and feel it out a little bit.

Howard Edgerton is for it, and he's a pretty knowledgeable fellow in the area.

Mr. President, on this, with his potential ambassadors, he even is thinking seriously about

of Japan, and I'm going to hear from him tomorrow.

Ready?

Yes, sir.

He's a... Well, he'd be very good, and it would be damn generous for us to get him.

Right?

Yes, sir.

A political standpoint.

He knows it.

Oh, you bet.

You bet.

And he's a thousand times tried to get back in.

Ingersoll would be our next choice, and you don't think he'd take it.

George seems to think he would.

He's a fine man.

He's a great person.

I'd love to have him.

Right.

I think he'd be good, too.

Do you think Reed Hunt, who is a man of the Pacific, is it possible if we didn't get either of those?

He's done a lot of banking things.

He was Cranzella back, as you know.

He's a West Coast fella.

He doesn't have a lot of possessions.

That's right.

He doesn't have much drugs.

I prefer... Well, that's right.

Just tell me if he's got a ticket.

All right.

Well, really, just tell him that I feel strongly that he must take it, that it's a desperate need for a tough negotiator, an outstanding international statesman.

He's got to take it.

Tell him to do something about it.

He must take the position.

I will do it.

I'll do it.

On Spain, I recognize that Wiley Buchanan is something of a pain in the neck around here.

But you don't want him in Spain?

Mr. President, he...

He's not much better, in my view, than C.B.

Whitney from the point of view of the kind of man that we're sending over there.

For instance, he sends in a letter saying that he knows the Spanish government wants him.

In terms of what he's done for us, he's done doggone little.

I've heard some of the other people, and I... Get the hell out of here, that's all.

Well, I would... Is there anybody associated with him?

I don't think he'd take anything less than that.

We can try a couple on him.

I suppose we...

He might take it on himself.

He might take Holland.

But, gee, when you think of the people who have done things for us, like this fellow Miller.

All right, all right, fine.

But offer him Holland, just so he's offered Holland.

Offer him something so that everybody around here gets him off their names.

Okay, go ahead.

Right, I understand you're lukewarm on Henry Hillman.

And you have another job for Bob Galvin for Spain.

Both of them, young, attractive, able, Republican.

Well, I prefer Galvin.

What good was Hillman to us?

Just get us a good ambassador over there.

God damn it, I don't care about having a good ambassador for Spain.

We don't need one.

But Hillman, you know, there's some left.

He's not for us, you know.

He's Elsie's wife.

Elsie's husband.

Elsie Hillman was the leader of the Rockefeller forces in Pennsylvania.

A very hell of a fight with our people.

I mean, it's going to look like a... All right, let's get hands.

You better check with Mitchell.

You see, we just can't.

First, I find you, who's part of the country.

Then you send Hilden to there.

It's going to look like we're finding a guy who is... who bought... who was our chairman?

In Jerusalem.

Yeah, our inspector.

Thank you.

No, no, no.

Arlen Adams.

Arlen Adams, yeah.

Now, is that maybe he swore?

I don't know.

But I don't know.

He's arguing with me.

He's young.

He's got a very cracky wife.

But I do think that on the political side, we're going to call it politics.

He didn't contribute in 1968.

Not a suit.

Do you want Barack Obama?

Well, he would.

Do you want a full door?

I'm still determined not to go with either Simon or Duralay.

Oh, you know, Simon?

Five Simon, yeah.

I don't think so.

He just doesn't have it.

I go down to Brighton.

Duralay?

They're both bad, but they're both...

I'd go with DeRoulet before I deal with this.

I don't think, Mr. President, you say we don't need a good one.

It's my understanding that, in all probability, during this fellow's time,

Franco is going to retire.

Juan Carlos doesn't handle himself well.

He's got himself crosswise just in this C.V. Whitney thing, and I would think you'd want somebody over there who could watch that develop and do us some good.

Who's your second choice, Secretary Hillman?

My choice before Hillman was Bob Gallup.

The question is, would you rather save him for something else?

He's awfully good.

Do you doubt the point that you want him?

Gallup, I suppose, would be a hell of a guy in defense as Undersecretary if he ever takes it.

He is a goblin, really too good a man to be an ambassador.

You know what I mean?

Isn't he a hell of a good businessman?

I don't know, Mom.

I have an opinion.

But his reputation is first class.

And he's a conservative Republican, and he's been our guy.

Does he want him?

I don't know.

I have no hesitancy about it.

He'd be a hell of a good candidate, I'm sure.

I just want to be sure before you go on Hillman.

I won't go on Hillman.

No, I don't share that much time.

But if you go, I want to be sure that our friends in Pennsylvania think that we picked somebody from the other side.

In other words, we may as well give it to a friend now and then.

Let me see if I can find a better friend.

Who's also competent and can do it.

Galvin.

Galvin would do the...

I don't know him, so I can't say.

I do know Galvin.

I know him well.

But I just think he could get a little guy for futures and that.

He can always bring it back.

That's right.

I personally think I'll try Gallman first.

I agree with that.

I'm sure of that.

I'll give him a try.

Gallman, I think, would be great.

On Australia, you want me to try your friend and mine, Jack Grant, which I'm perfectly delighted to do, except that Henry was awful.

He said, can't we ever send them over?

Somebody that's first class.

The driver, well, it's nice that we've got so many stoops out there.

I agree.

The driver's got some class.

He'll do what he's told.

Well, I was the advantage driver.

Not only so, he's got a smart wife.

No, a driver's not a driver.

I'm for offering with the ground, but you told me to check with Henry, and Henry's kind of concerned, and I think we ought to... Henry should have nothing to say about it.

He doesn't know a damn thing.

In countries like this, it doesn't, you know what I mean, in Australia, they want a friend in the prisons.

Right.

So I think we ought to...

I thought we had somebody else in mind for Australia, too.

My first suggestion was Bill Lipke.

He'd be great.

And my second...

I don't know.

My second suggestion is Lloyd Miller, who is the

who is a businessman from Cincinnati who was a big supporter of ours in 68 and does want to be an ambassador.

He's the top man of Maury's.

I still think that we ought to get Lodge out of Argentina and give it to him and send him back to Connecticut for a month.

My understanding is he needs the job.

It depends on the rate, but it's as good as Argentina.

Okay.

All right.

But I think we ought to get Holland.

What do you think about the ground?

I think it would be an ideal solution.

I can see the point.

I can see the desire to get him out, but there is a problem.

But just in general, I think if he would take it as being an ideal solution,

Jack is 100% loyal.

I don't think Wiley Buchanan is 100% loyal.

No, he's just asked.

All right.

Well, I'll try Jack, and if he won't take it, I'll try Litke.

And if he won't take it, I'll try Lloyd Miller.

Miller is fine.

I'd rather keep Lickety in Texas.

He's good.

I'll try Lloyd Miller.

And Miller, we owe that.

Yes, we do.

I'm sorry.

Give Miller a crack at it.

You'll probably end up getting it.

And how long?

In Argentina, who you got?

Now, that is important.

That's the only one I have.

I mean, Spain, yes, maybe.

Well, how about Gallup instead of for Spain?

Or a...

He'd be good.

He's not an oil man.

You can't set an oil man there.

That's the only thing you can't do.

He's... Yeah, he'd be great.

He'd probably be able to speak a goddamn language.

That's too bad.

Look, he does speak the language, but he's an oil man.

They didn't kill him.

Yeah.

That's a real issue.

You know, he's got a consortium and all that.

But if you can get a good man down there...

For young, able people who have made it, who can probably, who've made it long enough ago so they can move, the two that I had in mind were either Galvin or Hillman.

I do think that in Argentina you should have somebody who speaks Spanish.

I agree with that.

I don't know, but when you find out... Of course.

Of course.

And you would be... See, communication is so important there.

I think they've got to speak the language.

It can't be a State Department matter.

I've got to have somebody we can depend on.

None of...

I don't have any in mind other than the ones that...

I've got Ingersoll, if he spoke the language.

Huh?

If he did, I'd say... Ingersoll would be my place.

And it is an important place.

No, he doesn't speak the language.

Why don't you, I'll tell you who, who does, you know, Mark, I mean, he goes down to Berkeley and says, pick up what you need to spend.

Now, let me ask, maybe, but let me ask you this, if you're smart enough, why don't you ask Don Kendall, Kendall has an enormous interest in Latin America, and has, you know, he sits with a group of people, why don't you just ask him, because he loves to be asked, you know, on what I thought of, that I remember this,

Who would make a hell of an ambassador to Argentina?

Who's not an oil man?

It's a hell of a job.

It's a beautiful embassy.

Beautiful embassy.

Exciting job.

It's an interesting job.

Oh, well, Argentinians see, like Brazil, something is happening.

Something matters.

Hell, we got a career man there.

He's a good man.

In the part of places, Steve, we want our own people.

We want people that I can... Now, I ain't open.

Otherwise, I'd go to the special channels.

I fully understand it, but that's why I think it ought to be people like Rush and Dick Watson and not... We have done very well with them.

And not the Wiley Buchanans.

They're in trouble.

He could go back to Spain.

I don't think that'd be a good thing.

Oh, I really don't know.

What is he making an accident?

Well, in the first place, he's playing around, if you have the moment.

He was playing tennis, and he looked up, and there was a kid way up aiming a fake gun at him.

So he went rushing up to find out.

This is the story that I get from State.

It turned out to be the son of a very attractive lady who he struck up an acquaintanceship with.

Well, that's one problem.

The other problem is that Argentinians, as you know, are

very pompous people, and he spends a lot of time singing songs and having it in other places, and that doesn't exactly warm their hearts to him.

And besides that, apparently, from what State and Henry says, his contacts are the wrong people down there.

He just isn't with the people who are moving him.

And quite frankly, I guess all of those things, you wouldn't be too surprised at with our good friend, John.

This is all of these.

I check all the reports on these fellows with Henry, and don't take the State Department view with this one, unfortunately.

It's both sides.

Sure.

That's nice jobs.

Let me see if I can get Don to come up a little bit.

He speaks Spanish.

He might have a lot of current moments.

In California, you're just a businessman.

They run them down there a lot.

They have a lot of tickets for second lines at school.

I wonder if you'd check around out there.

For example, Jack Brown's recent Spanish.

But I don't want to go there.

No, I know what I meant.

He's just a decent example.

I mean, the hell of a lot of them write about the new Spanish out there.

I'd love to get a good Californian in there.

Well, here it is.

Thank you.

And because they're worried about her, coverage wants to help you, but says he has to have a confidential visit if he wants to be able to go home.

You don't want to be close to her.

And Chuck says that he can't assess what Surbridge really has on his mind, but if he dies or is forced to retire, Surbridge could be made acting president or some sort of, you know, type thing if he had all of the factors and the power struggles.

And, you know, if he's out of power, what might he want?

It's making him all known.

I'm not sure.

I didn't know he was supposed to be.

All right, we'll do that.

Okay, Paul, sit over here.

Nixon, Flanigan & Haldeman on Ambassadorships and Foreign Policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on December 22, 1971

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