Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on White House leaks and Anderson Papers

34:33I was going to say that I think the...
34:50that the idea I have on this thing is that it should not go to everybody.
34:57The opinions expressed are still not...
35:00In fact, it shouldn't.
35:03For example, it should never go to Kissinger.
35:07People like that, you know what I mean?
35:09I mean, the only ones I think it should have are people who have to do something about the news.
35:16It wouldn't have to come to me.
35:17I mean, basically, usually you have, what I agree with you is, it's an analysis that we're all going to see every morning by somebody, you know, as to the kind of thing to watch for.
35:29And I would think the group that I would have would be yourself.
35:33My great-grandfather,
35:35And say that, you know what I mean, here in Colston.
35:40In Colston, exactly, yeah.
35:42I'm just trying to say, so that when you hand your meeting, maybe your staff meeting, you bring out that number.
35:49But I don't want to get what Robert was talking about.
35:53I saw something there that was pointing out that you made comments about the China tragedy, the left and the right were both attacked and so forth.
36:02That's the kind of thing.
36:04Yeah.
36:04Yeah.
36:04Yeah.
36:26also give people strength.
36:28Now, for example, one thing that we can point out today, they ought to go to the staff first.
36:32They ought to go to you and the others.
36:35You got a right here on this regard to achieve very, very, very strong where Humphrey came up against the Richmond decision.
36:45And now we've got to push Erland and his crowd to see what the health position I'm going to take on the city so that Rob doesn't have to walk the park.
36:54That's why I'm telling you that.
36:58You wouldn't otherwise get it, maybe.
36:59You might.
37:00You might.
37:01You can't.
37:02You can't.
37:04You can't.
37:05You can't.
37:05You can't.
37:06You can't.
37:14because you always have the guy at berlin is looking for those things i'm sure
37:40I think you put your finger on it much better than I have.
37:45That's what I'd like to do.
37:46I'd like to have that.
37:48In terms of
37:58myself, my guess is that it probably is just as well that I not get involved in it for this reason.
38:05It's too often.
38:09I get a very good deal with somebody who's treating myself, and I will look at it in a far more balanced and objective way than I do off of Buchanan's.
38:21Or do you want to send it to me too?
38:23I don't mind either way.
38:25I'm getting, what I'm getting at is that I, yes.
38:28He won't do it if he doesn't think we're sending it to you.
38:31I have not sent it to him.
38:34Because, you know, the original approach was really to discount.
38:38You said, for you to get a sort of a fix on the action.
38:41Send it to us.
38:42Send it to me.
38:43Send it to me.
38:44Good, good, good.
38:46I can handle it.
38:47I don't want to do that.
38:50But I know that what happens in the future, I'm sure the right people will read those things if they want to be candidates.
38:58We'll go for it.
38:59He overrode it.
39:01He did all of the political stuff.
39:03I mean, hell, it happens when you're on political stuff.
39:06You see, but that's all right, too.
39:10There are other people watching after this, and that's where we ought to jump on, on making a move, too, and on writing here about the political stuff.
39:21The other thing I was going to say is I don't think you ought to go to the hot tub.
39:39My personal thing would be that I suggest that it should not be done every day.
39:45You know, I think that it's better that, as a matter of fact, if you could get a, that's a good idea, you see, so that you don't get, yeah, but also it's a terrible, it's a terrible burden for fellow officers who are there and have to think every night about this.
40:06And also, if he doesn't hop up, if you react to him hopping up, I had him, frankly, he got a G1 Monday afternoon after the Magnus netherrack, so he gets a P.H.R.
40:15last week, and another one on Thursday.
40:18Yeah, just to look at Freddie so we know how to close out the week.
40:21Yeah, that's right.
40:23Thursday, open the week as to what we want to get for the week now.
40:28There you go.
40:29This is a very good thing that we've been wanting to do.
40:33And don't let him get too much money.
40:34You know what I mean?
40:36No longer than what he's doing now.
40:37This is fine.
40:38Just drop some of the stories that come and go.
40:41The problem with doing it every day is that he's going to pick out stories that are...
40:45that excitement that day because he's told to do it when they are going to run it.
40:49Exactly.
40:50And he could also, if he ever sees one that he wants to fly in the in-between days, obviously he could put a little topper on saying, in the exact emergency we've got to look out for this.
40:59But he does that quite often, or somebody does.
41:01You know, that's him.
41:02Tell him that he should watch and say, be sure to watch for this or that or the other thing.
41:08And, you know, put a flyer.
41:09But then, in other words, he should write a memorandum every Sunday afternoon, which we would get Tuesday.
41:16And every, in other words, certainly lead young men.
41:20And every Thursday, now you're talking.
41:22That's the kind of thing we need.
41:24And that way it'll help with that end.
41:26But let me suggest, limit it to Colson.
41:30Yourself, the sailor, that's about it.
41:34I don't think you should, uh, well, I think Irvin better have it, because as McGregor and Irvin is so balanced, it isn't going to knock him off his kids anyway.
41:43That's not his thing.
41:44I don't think you should go to him.
41:47You agree?
41:47Yeah.
41:47Well, it's good for Irvin to get it, too, because Pat's evaluation will tend to be a little better than what would be more to the right, more to the right than the interaction on his cast than his cast people give him.
41:59Exactly.
42:05But again, he's got a fine line.
42:07You know, he goes to the heart of things as fast as anybody I've ever saw.
42:12He gets stuff in there and he's .
42:15And other people will crap around and this and that.
42:17And he keeps this stuff through against him.
42:21There's nothing to do with the question about it, really.
42:25Because he held an asset in the campaign for that reason.
42:30Not an accent, if you allow yourself to react like that.
42:36He's got the ability to get you stirred up.
42:39He's extremely emotional about these things.
42:53Emotion, but great power.
43:03Oh, well, I know it's small, but I just wanted to be sure.
43:06And I stopped, and I told Christ that we may not send around 35 copies of this draft to everybody.
43:14And he always does that to everybody who reads it.
43:20But nevertheless, I know that some speculations have been pressed to the effect that I was going to make a very insulatory talk and so forth.
43:28I guess that's the issue.
43:29I mean, it is going to be, but it doesn't help any of the common advance.
43:34I'm sure somebody just said it was the best of intentions.
43:40Yeah.
43:45Yeah.
43:46We always get it.
43:51I don't hear it.
44:07They tend to be as important as they are, right?
44:09Whoever puts those out usually doesn't know.
44:12And sometimes somebody can't see them, though.
44:14They see them in the rain.
44:18Although I don't think he's...
44:20The drafts have gone far at all this time.
44:22I'm calling this time.
44:25Other than early on, he's been working with them for, you know, the...
44:29I say specifically...
44:30I only like to specifically get a board, right?
44:34Right.
44:37He said take her and watch what she's saying.
44:39I said, but not everybody else.
44:43So, and I said, you know, I should talk to her.
44:46So, I said, fine, I don't think.
44:51All right, Scott.
44:54I think he's left with Shakespeare, and he didn't left yesterday.
44:57He wanted to interpret it.
45:00That's up.
45:00Yeah, Frank Gantz didn't go, because he was doing cultural exhibits, and that's the cultural guy.
45:08What did I expect from him?
45:10There are some.
45:13I hope they saw and realized these were enormous.
45:15They would end up upgrading it for this position.
45:18Hell, I'm not sure where it began, like for Russian people going out to the Kennedy Center and all that crap.
45:23There are some nice things here.
45:25There are.
45:25I don't know if I put that word in our hands.
45:33Well, it looks like they are now.
45:35That's a trip up.
45:36That's the kind of thing that Glenn would never be able to do.
45:40He could never.
45:41Even if he could afford it, he could never do it because of who he, you know, the position he goes into.
45:45There's a spending curve.
45:48Take the drought with the number of other nice people along the edge of the trip.
45:54And what they're writing, they saw this all inside a hotel.
45:58Rolled in the car, and he just started out on his car, and I ran out of line until he could see what it looked like.
46:06They soak up all that socializing that you won't do when you're on the strip.
46:13They'll have all kinds of dinners.
46:17Meet with the
46:37Yeah, was he ever in that at all?
46:40I can't remember.
46:41He was never in that.
47:07Maybe he would, you know, he might have been in that thing somewhere, yeah.
47:11True, it's a lot better.
47:12One point is that we don't want to get into it, you know, I don't know what Ron does, but you ought to get out that thing, you know, where the idea of the law not being repeated, you know, the fact that he was, remember, the facts on that.
47:34That should be something that ought to come from somebody outside of that thing, though.
47:40Well, of course, the point is, you remember we put out a statement in 62.
47:44Yeah.
47:44He might even refer to that.
47:46I don't know if he wants to dust it off, but that was actually 10 years ago, and here it is.
47:51Do you know what I mean?
47:54Yeah.
47:54Maybe he might find it, but maybe he can't find it.
47:57Maybe it isn't around.
48:00Well, I know Rosa's got it.
48:02I'm sure she's got the whole thing.
48:04Yeah.
48:07It shows you that people,
48:35It's a mystery story and it's fascinating that, you know, here's this man locked up in a hotel in Paradise Island and now they're saying that his beard has grown down to his waist and he's let his fingernails grow six inches long or something.
48:49And I'm sure it probably isn't true, but it makes, you know, it's always... Uncle Steve Green or whatever his name was with their money.
49:06He just said he has nothing to say.
49:07Well, I really think he ought to say that he's happy right now.
49:16I'm trying to think if there's somebody on the side that was, that was happy.
49:25Yeah, we ought to go on.
49:27I shouldn't say we have nothing to say, but at least it's very good.
49:30It is a building, very much.
49:32Well, my point is, don't just leave an impression of guilt, but I don't have anything to say.
49:36I have no comment on it.
49:37I mean, you said that was a responding group down there in 1932.
50:01Maybe that's one client, I don't think that... Rather than having a press secretary, although a client was there through all of it, was Ron.
50:19Well, Ron was there in 62.
50:20Well, I can't remember exactly what was it about.
50:27I think it might have been...
50:31I don't want to put out from here.
50:39That's the problem.
50:40Oh, it's got plenty to go, plenty to go to, you know, hit the wires on it.
50:43None of them.
50:44I think the big thing out of it is make the point that you just don't get asked it.
50:49You just say, well, you know, I, I, that's, he's the old-timer.
50:53He's got the ending.
50:53I mean, I've known him a long time.
50:55Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:56To...
50:59Ron's too young to come out and say that's an old story.
51:01He doesn't know the story.
51:02Very good.
51:05I'm very, very, completely answered.
51:09The gentleman there is almost paid.
51:18Almost satisfied, really.
51:19Satisfied by the transfer.
51:26Yeah, that's my point.
51:28I just wanted to ride.
51:54Yeah.
51:54Yeah.
52:24I didn't want to say that, but before that was...
52:38I think you're right.
52:39You don't want to have it on to us.
52:41We've got to revert back to something.
52:45Many years ago, I'd sit up and respond to your question.
52:49They revert back.
52:50There's a post when they picked it up out of the, you know, just a flip on the book.
52:56Then it said, then referred back to the Drew Pearson story in 1659, I don't know what happened, that, you know, they carried that part of it so he could go back.
53:09And I bet he said, sure, that's the way he had it.
53:11He was 62.
53:11Yeah.
53:12And then it was, there was a contentment major to that.
53:16He tried to impose it on the community, actually.
53:18But all of a sudden, it's not very good.
53:22And he got nothing out of it.
53:31I don't know.
53:31I don't know.
53:35I don't know.
53:36I don't know.
53:37I don't know.
53:38I don't know.
53:58and realized that some of what he said is going to cost him a lot of money, which it will, because he convinced us and he screwed some guy out of a patent on a drill and a lot of stuff like that.
54:09And you know, he's still got some big lawsuits pending, and this is where one of the guys goes.
54:13There was, however, the thing where you asked my neighbor.
54:17He was, that's right, two years ago.
54:19And what happened in his book, I don't, maybe this is it.
54:23No.
54:24Oh, I see.
54:25Sorry about that.
54:27No, because these are focused on screw use as well.
54:32Well, the way it does, I guess.
54:34Maybe that's it.
54:35Maybe this is a...
54:41That was Dieter's son, or it was simply that it seemed that, knowing he was his child, it was probably something he decided that it was time to do the book before he died and all that.
54:50So he did the book, then realized it was going to do him more harm than good, and was trying to turn it off, and in his weird way, you know, saying, I didn't do it, and the guy that wrote it noticed him, and he didn't do it.
55:02See, the white people and the McGraw-Hill people who own the rights,
55:08McDonnell and Butler Sheriff's Office material rights are absolutely convinced that you've said it.
55:13I can call Shetland and find Jim Jensen of its animal rights negotiations.
55:25Of course, now it doesn't matter whether you wrote it or not.
55:27The goddamn thing has been so built up now that all I can do is put it back on and be able to stack it up.
55:33It'll be one of the other books I've read.
55:36It's a really good book.
55:49in the right framework and time because there are enough people still that remember him to read the book.
55:55But also, he's a min figure, you know?
55:59And, you know, I was going to go to the lunch and tell you that story about losing the nursery, and I didn't go to it, because he was crying on the floor, and I said, he said, listen, I'm not going to lose the nursery, because I don't want to lose the nursery.
56:12So, we were living, and he said, you're not going to lose the nursery.
56:18And apparently, it was all true.
56:18So, I woke up, and I did it.
56:21It's almost unbelievable that I actually have six kids.
56:25You know, it's an unbelievable thing to me that he can have six kids, but how he studied.
56:36It's a remarkable story, though.
56:38It really is a fascinating story.
56:41Did you read it?
56:42No, but I've read the book.
56:44I've read the book.
56:45I've read the story.
56:47It's a great story.
57:10Apparently it was one who married a lovely woman, or something like that.
57:20I mean, a lot of those are as long gone.
57:21Oh, there is, it was determined that they had their own life.
57:24I remember there was a strange story about their marriage to begin with.
57:27I mean, before they were married, it was the leading end of the marriage.
57:36That's been alluded to.
57:40Another question.
57:40I'm curious.
57:41I have a little story with someone.
57:43I've been in a project, and I've got a question.
57:47Tell me.
57:47I have a really good little story.
57:51I don't know if it's about Christ, but it's a little story.
57:53Oh, I have a little story.
57:56That time was all over.
57:57It had all the kids in it.
58:01Oh, yeah.
58:01It was Peter.
58:02Oh, yeah.
58:02Oh, sure.
58:02That's right.
58:03That's right.
58:03That's right.
58:04Okay.
58:05So you see, after he lent 20 to the Vice President, and he had, this happened before he ran for Vice President, after he became the Secondary President, and then he lasted forever.
58:19And then of course, he stopped them.
58:22They made the thing.
58:25The only real thing with this over the years up until a couple years ago was the fact that she was there the day he died.
58:34Was it March?
58:34Yeah.
58:35Was it March 9th?
58:37She was at March 9th.
58:39And they made it sort of a mystery kind of thing.
58:41It was a lot at that point.
58:43She had been married to that guy.
58:46But she commissioned a portrait that was being painted by that...
58:48I guess it was Schumann-Topp or somebody.
58:51Someone was doing the portrait.
58:55at the time he died, and Lucy was there while he was sitting.
59:02It is, it's a fascinating, you know, it's in fact, some of those stories, the Lincoln story with his wife, the Roosevelt story with his wife.
59:18Yeah.
59:19Yeah.
59:46It's sort of a fascinating story.
59:47I wonder if anybody will ever write the Kennedy story.
59:52I don't think that my story comes out.
1:00:02This one, of course, is being written as a
1:00:06As greedy as them.
1:00:07On tragedy rather than as sympathetic.
1:00:09Yeah, that's what Julie's called.
1:00:11Rather than as sympathetic in the way that Jane made that.
1:00:15Marty Hall.
1:00:16Well, this is Joe that actually was very, you know, according to Bill, all that Joe and Eleanor had to think about.
1:00:24Well, that's our real answers.
1:00:25I think he was a bit weird.
1:00:27But nevertheless, yeah, yeah, I fully understand that.
1:01:06I said, County, they won't be hurt for this reason.
1:01:10There was no other woman.
1:01:12There were women.
1:01:13And I think that that makes a very, very difference.
1:01:18Yeah.
1:01:18That's right.
1:01:20There was no intention of hurting, but there was no blow or anything like that.
1:01:25There was no other man either.
1:01:29It's kind of like the Wiggins of the early 19th century.
1:01:32I mean, they just ran around the hall, ran around the great show.
1:01:36I mean, it was a problem provided they didn't have a force, because they had a force to rule, and that's the difference.
1:01:42Okay.
1:01:47I mean, it was a very fascinating thing.
1:01:51Yeah, he's a weird enough guy that it's got elements of all kinds of .
1:02:10did it on a personal basis.
1:02:14You know, they're good, very good personal friends.
1:02:20It wasn't, it wasn't planning.
1:02:23I'll tell you what the story was.
1:02:26Planning didn't, Buckley called planning wanting to get Cory appointed to something.
1:02:35And they got into a Buckley intellectual type exchange on the...
1:02:53I'm not sure whether it was back in the day.
1:02:57But there was, there was a server that explained that.
1:02:59And I don't know that I would have gotten to know that.
1:03:01But I mean, the point of the story, I think, is this Mitchell must be the man that, you know, even if he's planning things, or he can't, or anybody else, that's a friend.
1:03:11And he's got to know, because he's got these names, he's fighting like these guys.
1:03:14I don't know if he's fighting in the popular league.
1:03:16I mean, he's a champion.
1:03:18I mean, he could not be with the other.
1:03:20But OG3 is official.
1:03:23Well, I don't understand.
1:03:27I'm not really in any question about it.
1:03:54Another one, .
1:03:54Now, .
1:03:55Buckley answered with a letter .
1:03:58And Buckley sent copies of his letter to the A.G. and to me, and they gave him copies.
1:04:12I need my
1:04:32I read the board policy stuff, and I read the domestic stuff, and I say about the battle, I feel much better.
1:04:39I get to see what Muskie said about this and that and the other thing.
1:04:44And I just think, too, also there's a tendency for the New Sons inevitably to...
1:04:50No matter how they're registered, and they strike, and they go this and that, and they go up and down, it's like, it's true, and there's nothing I can do about it.
1:05:03But the thing is, there's nothing I can do about it.
1:05:06Right.
1:05:07What do you think?
1:05:09I didn't get shot.
1:05:36I don't think it is.
1:05:37What it points out is the weakness of the networks.
1:05:42Because the networks don't cover very much.
1:05:47And then you start to have people who are from Washington and the other end, you know, the other end.
1:06:00As a matter of fact, what was the name of the cover?
1:06:04I don't know.
1:06:17You've got to look at it as you do with the right kind of house.
1:06:24That's one of the things, like the Bobbitts-Rogers, I don't know if it's the... Not Rachel, I don't think.
1:06:32But his concern is that it plays up the wire surface stuff.
1:06:37Namely, the wire surface.
1:06:39that don't get played.
1:06:41In other words, they look for things that are of interest to us, and sometimes they're things on the wire, like something that some senator said or something, that never get printed anymore, that we'll want to mark another time.
1:06:53There is something.
1:06:55But the other side of that is, it's terribly important to look at that, because otherwise you're limited only to what the Post and the Star and the Times have got going on.
1:07:04And you miss what the Omaha World-Herald picks up and all that.
1:07:07The only way you're going to get that is to look at the wire show.
1:07:13You have to agree with the guys that call the Los Angeles Times and call somebody who says, what's the paper?
1:07:21They do.
1:07:22I think they go through 50 and 50.
1:07:25on a non-everyday basis, but they check the stories.
1:07:28They watch them.
1:07:30They go through not just the L.A. Times, but those they can cover regularly, the data, the major papers.
1:07:37But then they also cover a whole bunch of papers on the same point.
1:07:42Any probability of objection is being raised to much smaller juncture.
1:07:48I think it's inevitable.
1:07:49I think it's jealousy.
1:07:52There's no way around that.
1:07:54First of all, it takes more than that to do a show.
1:08:02I don't know what I can balance with regard to the press.
1:08:11This criteria are unchallengable on the basis of who gets to that.
1:08:20They can make the case that there's an overweighting to them, but the point is that that's it.
1:08:28On the basis of audience, it's not overweighting.
1:08:35If you were taking any legal law, and you were going to weigh it according to the audience reach, 75 of them ought to be from the network, and 5 of them from the press.
1:34:16the word is so well out now that we probably should go ahead and make the announcement
1:34:39idea that he wants to toss into the announcement about setting up a new council on jobs or something.
1:34:48And, uh, Irving and Schultz are opposed to that.
1:34:53Yeah, they ought to start a lot.
1:34:56His rationale, which you've got to be aware of, people are saying to him when they read these rumors, why the hell would you want to be Secretary of Congress?
1:35:20Which is, uh, not too bad.
1:35:21I don't know if you want to hear me in, but...
1:35:25There's an opportunity to win something out of Congress if you go out of it, right?
1:35:32That'll do us good.
1:35:33I mean, he's right there.
1:35:34He said, like, we can go out there with jobs, and, you know, he was delighted that Peterson was coming into this, because he said, now, he and I, we can go into this jobs thing where it stands.
1:35:44I can never get through to him.
1:35:45He never understood what I was talking about.
1:35:47Peterson was.
1:35:48I want to tilt the...
1:36:14The other one, on the replacement for Peterson, he talked to Henry and Connolly primarily because he wanted to be sure that they wanted him to do this and that was all understood.
1:36:38And Connolly
1:36:44is concerned about the question of, you know, any involvement of monetary policy in that area, obviously.
1:36:51And Pete's concerned about the exclusion of monetary policy.
1:36:56And the question of whether the policy is more important to us than Pete is.
1:37:02Absolutely.
1:37:02Pete understands that.
1:37:03He has no argument with Tommy.
1:37:05The argument he makes there is the same one that both Tommy and Pete have.
1:37:15And what plans do you have as a tool to comment?
1:37:20In fact, he provides a way for Treasury to control it and for them to have an operating wish on the asset he needs in the White House to ride through it on the other departments for him.
1:37:30I think that Ken Peterson is not the best person to respond to because he's so direct and obfuscate sometimes.
1:37:46You know what I mean?
1:37:47There's not two streets.
1:37:48You just have to settle it.
1:37:50You just say, look here, this is the way to do it.
1:37:52You don't have to go there.
1:37:54You don't have to go there.
1:37:56You've got to keep him out of this.
1:37:59You've got to keep him out of this.
1:38:02It's fine.
1:38:02I think if you sit down and you consider the main thing is that money is a problem that must be in control.
1:38:08We've got to get the state out of control.
1:38:11Here is the device, we're sure about what we can do, and here is the man you can use.
1:38:16If you're at the plant, if you're staying at the plant, this is the way to keep the ears under control.
1:38:21You've got to keep the ears under control.
1:38:25What I get to make a comment here today, and if I do, I get to do it, and I'll say, like, everybody keeps people in control.
1:38:32See, Gunn has talked about that.
1:38:33He's wanted Kiss to hear it, but in Kiss, he's wrong.
1:38:35That Kiss here is the last gun in the world to do it, right?
1:38:40And he can use money.
1:38:40The way for him to look at it is that he uses money as a device, and Pete's perfectly willing to beat him.
1:38:48There's no philosophical dispute.
1:38:50He thinks Treasury should be on top of it.
1:38:52He makes the point that the policy there is set by the Voter Committee anyway, as it should be.
1:38:58And that his thing could be a device for implementing what I have in mind.
1:39:04Well, we ought to do it today or tomorrow, I think.
1:39:12But I think we ought to announce Lannigan at the same time we announce Peterson.
1:39:15We ought to make a three-way move, otherwise you're going to leave a gap there on what's going to happen on that economic policy council.
1:39:22That will look like it's being downgraded, but it's been built up so much.
1:39:26He's got a real problem that doesn't relate to this, which is a very valid one, which is that Peterson is turning over to him a sound here that looks like a silk purse.
1:39:39By the luck of the draw, the thing has come out to look like a hell of an effective organism because of all the things that have happened.
1:39:48But it had nothing to do with it.
1:39:51That looks like it did.
1:39:53Well, then he at least got a hand in it.
1:39:56And that's fine.
1:39:57Let him think so.
1:39:58It gives you credit.
1:40:05for doing, but the problem is, in the process, he has a lousy staff and a lousy operation, and kind of wants to come in as an inside guy, so he doesn't want to be a spokesman type like, like Peterson's been.
1:40:24And, uh, he's got, you know, he, here's the problem, when you pick, if you pick up something that looks bad that really is good, you can, you can make a lot of hay out of it.
1:40:31If you pick up something that's
1:40:34Now if we can't get all this work done,
1:40:55I don't know why we can't.
1:40:56It's already leaked so much that, you know, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
1:41:00Fans told people over Congress on parts of that, when you tell the department, and he was right to tell them.
1:41:07So at least then it gets out.
1:41:08The other way around it, if we can't get an analysis, you could still make the...
1:41:19The players cannot make a farewell at the stands and just say, this is just in the family hands, but now we're not going to answer.
1:41:24I just don't have to get Conley out first.
1:41:28It's not that he wrote it.
1:41:35I'll be honest.
1:41:38Yes, sir.
1:41:39I'll tell you what I'd like to do.
1:41:42I don't deserve Conley Nelson.
1:41:44The purpose of this is to put him in charge of this thing.
1:41:49And that's the whole monetary thing.
1:41:52It appears that Flanagan clearly understands that the problem is being charged under the monetary, but international, you know, economic trade policies and the rest, that Flanagan will need a strong right arm in the White House, not only for tax, and tax.
1:42:11And if you could bring it that way, if you could get him to let it that way, it might be a very helpful way to end work.
1:42:28How do you want to talk to him?
1:42:30If you don't want to talk to him, I think it's better to do it that way.
1:42:40If you don't want to talk to him, then I'll do it that way.
1:42:43I will.
1:42:44Two-step thing on this side.
1:42:46All right.
1:42:46We'll see here.
1:42:47All right.
1:42:58What do you see when you come over?
1:43:0312 today, or two, or three, or eight.
1:43:14You can't do it this morning.
1:43:17All right.
1:43:20I'm afraid not.
1:43:21Right.
1:43:21Go ahead.
1:43:35uh but then we really have not too much we're going to indicate your continuing your work on this and budget matters i may get a question this morning about the anderson papers again he ran that i talked to al hayes about this
1:43:51i think we can get this totally out of the way baseball asked well isn't the president concerned about it simply by saying look it's obvious when matters of this sort become available the president is concerned about it that's all i'm going to say we're not going to discuss any investigations as we have already made clear but as of this point we have not expressed concern about this and i think some people are reading into that
1:44:16the fact that we haven't, that we have something, you know, we haven't said the concern about the leak.
1:44:24We have not said on any occasion that you are concerned about the leak.
1:44:36but why don't you just say it in 93 words?
1:44:41Right, in that word.
1:44:42But to me, obviously, this is to me like this is direction, and it's direction.
1:44:50I don't want to be particularly frank with you, but for a member of the Press as well, the Press, we...
1:45:06The investigation is seriously under way.
1:45:10And we are not there to defend you.
1:45:16Each post has got to be called into action, right?
1:45:22That's really true.
1:45:23Now here, if you want to read it and say, you can make the, you can say, who is this and that, and say, well, there's a lot of, there's certain kinds of evidence, but the main witness, the only proper witness, unfortunately, is the man in the Polish material.
1:45:43And this is all very recommended for the members of the press.
1:45:50We're not going to do that.
1:45:54That's good.
1:45:56yeah i'm inclined to think that i don't want to hypo this story anymore but i don't want it to hypo on the other side by having not expressed concern and i would only raise this if they asked me
1:46:18The president considers it important.
1:46:33If they get into anything on Kissinger, which I don't think they will, I'm going to say that's all been covered.
1:46:44This person obviously stands behind this.
1:47:02Yes, I'd say that very strongly.
1:47:04And as several of you ladies and gentlemen pointed out in your comments, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, pointed out in your comments,
1:47:29There's a little bit of a discrepancy between the private positions of the administration, and you have this kind of verse, or rather, a graphic description of internal discussions, these kind of discussions that are being encouraged all the time, to be very adversely discussed by the support of any member of the cabinet.
1:47:53He's not going to allow this kind of belief.
1:47:57It's supposed to have been before.
1:47:59He's going to be telling me something about it.
1:48:02It's not going to go on.
1:48:04It's not going to go on.
1:48:06This kind of disclosure, and the disclosure of my knowledge, is going to be very, very important to allow the administration for a very long time to allow this to lead to less disdain.
1:48:19This is not seriously trying to disdain.
1:48:23And less reason to take it all day long and stop considering it.
1:48:27He feels that the most serious aspect of the President's view is that in the opinion of this President and any of the others, that we have to deny
1:48:53the most bold, honest kind of advice that we can get from this.
1:48:58There must be a plan, whether encouraged or not encouraged, that all options get prevented.
1:49:05There are various ways to go on.
1:49:07In this case, we're solving that difficult problem.
1:49:10But, that's all.
1:49:11And, I mean, so far as I'm concerned, that's how it is.
1:49:16Some of you are the very objective members of this press corps and pointed out in your comments that you could say something to me.
1:49:31And I voted.
1:49:43Take the boat.
1:49:47Take the boat and cut off the distance.
1:49:52Here is the council for Red War.
1:49:56Now war.
1:50:01There should be no question about it.
1:50:25I was getting this news that he was slated to go to the Union very rapidly, but he didn't.
1:50:42I'm going to leave that to time.
1:50:43If you back up, don't back up.
1:50:45I won't back off of it, but I'll try not to.
1:50:47I'll dress him up here.
1:50:49I can work that out.
1:50:50This is exactly what you did.
1:50:51Jerry, I'll be back.
1:50:53Right now, the day after.
1:50:57Yes, he does.
1:50:58Okay, then I'll... No, I won't...
1:51:01The...
1:51:05Only other thing, and I raise it because Mrs. Nixon called John about it, wanted some guidance from me, on this Irving book on the Hughes, you know, autobiography, where they suggest Clifford was involved in that.
1:51:22Really?
1:51:25who called me and suggested that I develop a line.
1:51:28My feeling is that that's 14 years old, and that has been discussed thoroughly, and that we do not even begin to address the question of where the German race is at this moment.
1:51:39Don't you agree?
1:51:40Well, we were just talking about that, but we haven't been able to leave the record.
1:51:45You can't do anything at a regular time on a charged sentence.
1:51:49See, the charge is false.
1:51:50We answered it, as you recall, in 62.
1:51:53Right.
1:51:53But the point, the loan was never repaid.
1:51:55Which is true.
1:51:56Well, the stock is now transferred to EROC, which was worth more than the amount of the loan, and therefore satisfied the loan.
1:52:02And that's the point.
1:52:03That's the point.
1:52:04The money involved in some places is not going to be offered.
1:52:08It's the state of the decision that's going to do it.
1:52:12They say this is all, excuse me, they say this is all, this is a very, very old story that, I don't know, well, that's not my voice.
1:52:28I can't even say, if you get it with me, whether it was my son or not, that was an old statement made at that time.
1:52:39Then he asked for the statement from you.
1:52:41I think it's better, let's try to get the statement out first, and then you ought to settle off for now, and then somebody can get the statement out, and then he can say the statement.
1:52:48But I've got to look relaxed.
1:52:50You've got to look relaxed.
1:52:51I don't want to snowball it in a way that looks like we're uptight.
1:52:58I think that you suggest, look, that's an old story.
1:53:00It's disgusting.
1:53:01I have nothing more to say.
1:53:02There have been total statements issued on that, and I have absolutely nothing more to say about it.
1:53:0714 years.
1:53:07That's it, put to rest.
1:53:08That's it, put to rest.
1:53:34I thought we could do it.
1:53:38We could get out the 62 statement, uncline, cover that on the basis, you know, he was the press secretary then.
1:53:46He said he was around at 60 when the men was being kicked around in that campaign.
1:53:52He could say, geez, don't you guys get tired of dreading that?
1:53:54I don't think they're going to do that.
1:53:58i don't know if you'll ask about it i just want to be ready and i want to tell mrs mcconnell and connie stewart and this is that i think it's a hurt position well they're not i just i guess she's concerned that this may be after i think her interest was making the point that uh
1:54:22did repay the loan, that was the point she made.
1:54:26But I don't think she should get into it.
1:54:28Right.
1:54:41My advice to him is that apparently the book doesn't find that out.
1:54:45Well, we don't know that it doesn't.
1:54:48All we've got is the fact that it says there was a lot more to say than that.
1:54:52I think the surgeon may be a phony.
1:54:56No.
1:54:57Did you watch him?
1:55:00I watched him on the .
1:55:02He's the author.
1:55:04But you can tell when the guy's speaking from competence or if he's putting on the image of speaking for competence.
1:55:12In my initial impression, that's told to .
1:55:18He theoretically met this guy in hotels and things like that.
1:55:22But he's kind of a... Irving, in watching Wallace with him last night, was... had that characteristic about him.
1:55:30He had a very relaxed mind.
1:55:41I think that's about it.
1:55:43I won't say anything about the Olympian defeat.
1:56:12In Chile, Ghana bleed the same.
1:56:14Well, not in relation to this.
1:56:16It's just are we going to recognize them.
1:56:22That's a state matter.
1:56:23Italian newspapers are carrying reports that the president will visit Poland on his return from Moscow.
1:56:32I'm going to close that up.
1:56:42while still maintaining flexibility.
1:56:44I'm going to say there's no plan with respect to going to Poland right after Moscow.
1:56:48That's it.
1:57:02I just understand you've got some of these because you're putting too many television people on the trip.
1:57:07That's a great idea.
1:57:08Well, I'm going to go with it.
1:57:09In terms of the amount of audiences you reach, you're going to take five, and it's going to be about 85 million people.
1:57:17And the thing I'm... Scallion and 10-mile park.
1:57:22We're going to talk to New York and meet with the TV people, but if they build on this, I'm just going to say now the question is, television show business or television news, you people are going to have to make your own determination.
1:57:32You wrote it right in both ways.
1:57:35On one hand, you say television has dramatic impact in terms of communicating the news.
1:57:40You say it's your own columns, and now it's your own premise in your story.
1:57:44You're saying it's children.
1:57:45What is it?
1:57:46You make that decision.
1:57:47The television, news, media, requested of the administration to cover a very historic event.
1:57:54Well, and also, if you find a way to cover that now, isn't it that way now?
1:57:57Oh, substantially, yes.
1:57:59And I'm going to have the television network support that.
1:58:02Interesting thing, though.
1:58:03the chinese we have a thing in here this morning have expressed interest and they raised us when we were there purchasing an rca ground station for skyline did you mention it no what shows that the chinese are intrigued with television probably more so well in fact there was no way
1:58:33There's going to be heat on this, but we have a very defensible person.
1:58:38I'll take it, sir.
1:58:39I'll take it.
1:58:44I'm telling you, we've got it now.
1:58:50They've come slithering up to my office by the time of...
1:58:54I just want to know, sir, and I'm not going to know, and I'm going to let them just come, because it just shows the character of... You know, the hard-fitting...
1:59:03tough guys out there for a while, who I know are, you know, their organization is on the list.
1:59:08They're really coming around.
1:59:09I'm just going to let them do it for a while, and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it.
1:59:16I'll see you at the stage later.
1:59:18Thank you very much.
1:59:26Thank you very much.
1:59:33they are asking if you're going to cover both domestic and foreign
2:00:20Very good.
2:00:21It's coming from some of the organizations.
2:00:26I've gotten a letter from the head of the Associated Press.
2:00:35If you're not a press member, they'd like you to be a press member.
2:00:41Not a TV press member,
2:00:51That's what you're going to get.
2:00:54You're going to get five.
2:00:57You're going to get something worth a lot.
2:01:07The rabid thing, I think they all are very...
2:01:09The rabid thing, I think they all are very...
2:08:33I haven't quite forgotten any of it.
2:08:35How do you want to do it?
2:08:36I've got a permit doctor response time for your state of the island.
2:08:41I saw that for the first time in a long time.
2:08:46They came up with that the last time when they had Mansfield do it.
2:08:49We agreed with you on everything, so this time, they're going to apparently have Mansfield and Algaron or something, and have people around the country phone me and question about the state of the union, and they're going to answer.
2:09:02No, they can't.
2:09:04If you do it here, you walk out of the pressure room, there's no fear.
2:09:13If you do it here, in the office, you should be compelled.
2:09:20But if you walk out of the pressure room,
2:09:28There's no way that they can, as I understand it, and I just read these, where they can provide... No, I have an Easter, and I think they're here.
2:09:37There, I think there's a question.
2:09:39Why?
2:09:39One moment.
2:09:40The full, full running, which they could do, could have our area live.
2:09:48And if there's no... Well, that could open and open across your ashtray.
2:09:53Well, why?
2:09:56So we'll put them on track.
2:09:58And let the networks say, we won't carry the president's press traffic slide on the TV.
2:10:02Let's see what happens.
2:10:04The networks will do that.
2:10:05They're going to carry it.
2:10:07I'm going to tell them they will.
2:10:08They will.
2:10:09They'll have it.
2:10:12Okay.
2:10:12You guys know?
2:10:21Hang on, I'll cut you off.
2:10:23I'll just call the taxi.
2:11:09Yes, sir.
2:11:11Uh, the President wonders if you would be available to speak at any time from 2 on this afternoon.
2:11:20What is your convenience, sir?
2:11:40Okay, very good.
2:12:30Thank you.
2:12:53Square root of the sapphire is not what you want to have.
2:12:56You've got to knock that stuff.
2:13:17Yeah.
2:13:46You can't ever save that person.
2:13:50That's tough.
2:13:54Going to God damn well-planned field.
2:14:03He's so desperate he needs a rider over there.
2:14:10Fortunately, I've got a thing down in the States where I'm going to freeze that fire to get it done the first draft of my mark, you know, and get the whole goddamn thing down in the States.
2:14:24As I told you when I go to Florida, I'm probably going to be there a little bit.
2:14:27I'm going to come back Sunday night, come on Monday and Tuesday to get required to do it.
2:14:37See, you've got to take time off, even if it's for a long time.
2:14:43And just before that, we're going to do the budget sign because Andrew was up on it.
2:14:49It's not a good word for us, but it has to be done.
2:14:58We don't have to have to press anybody.
2:15:05Well, fine.
2:15:06I agree to that.
2:15:07You said that the staff didn't want to get a picture?
2:15:09Yeah, I said that.
2:15:10I said that.
2:15:10I said that.
2:15:11I said that.
2:15:12I said that.
2:15:13I said that.
2:15:13I said that.
2:15:14I said that.
2:15:14I said that.
2:15:16I said that.
2:15:16I said that.
2:15:17I said that.
2:15:18I said that.
2:15:19I said that.
2:15:20I said that.
2:15:20I said that.
2:15:21I said that.
2:15:21I said that.
2:15:22I said that.
2:15:22I said that.
2:15:23I said that.
2:15:25I said that.
2:15:25I said that.
2:15:26I said that.
2:15:27I said that.
2:15:27I said that.
2:15:27I said that.
2:15:28I said that.
2:15:29I said that.
2:15:29I said that.
2:15:29I said that.
2:15:31I said that.
2:16:30We're going to have to get back into the strategy.
2:16:33You don't want to get it.
2:16:39I had a good talk with Sapphire this morning.
2:16:48I think I've also seen the notes you've made.
2:16:51And I think, I think we can squeeze out some of the detail and leave it for the briefing because I think your instinct is right.
2:17:11The one place where we need detail, Mr. President, if you agree, is in the proposal we are making, and here's why.
2:17:21I think it would be best if we didn't have to release the text until I brief on it the next day.
2:17:27If you're prepared to release the text that night,
2:17:31Then you can squeeze it down in what you say.
2:17:34What worries me is if you release the text, they're going to start lip-ticking the text right after you get on.
2:17:42And then I'd have to read that night, which wouldn't be good.
2:17:45I think that night your speech should be featured and I shouldn't read until the next day with the technical stuff.
2:17:53What do you mean?
2:17:56Why can't the text?
2:17:58Because the text, one of the texts of the speech.
2:18:01No, I want the text of the speech to rise that night.
2:18:05And the text of the proposal to rise the next day.
2:18:10That's the case.
2:18:14I don't want to put too much of that stuff in the speech because it's being too hard on me.
2:18:22Well, let's see if we can do it, Mr. President.
2:18:31Well, let's see how it reads.
2:18:33I've asked, I've urged him to put in, I agree with you completely that in the previous hymn, when we talk about May 31st, July 12th, July 26th, there he can squeeze out all the poems.
2:18:48You don't want to cover every point of every proposal.
2:18:51It's just of our last proposal that we ought to see whether we can put in enough.
2:18:57But if word comes to word, we can say we'll release it tomorrow.
2:19:00There's no crime in that.
2:19:02Then they'll have to wait.
2:19:05I need to have Harriman get on right after you've been on.
2:19:08Yeah.
2:19:08And tear the proposal apart.
2:19:10Yeah.
2:19:11Yeah.
2:19:11Well, then, how do you conclude that?
2:19:13I mean, here's part of the proposal, and here's part of it.
2:19:17The point is, I mean, he'll tear it apart if I include that too much.
2:19:20Yeah.
2:19:24I think it's better not to do these things.
2:19:27And still hold it until the next step.
2:19:28Well, and there might be a proposal before you do that.
2:19:31And then that might be a little bit of something you can say, well, correct, or maybe not.
2:19:36I'm going to read it.
2:19:53but we'll have to release the text fairly soon after this speech.
2:19:58Right, something will happen.
2:20:01Yes, but you may be, this may be right.
2:20:04If we don't release it, then if they,
2:20:09Because the proposal is a very subtle one, which we are now tying down with Q, which in effect saves prisoners for withdrawal in the first phase, and now even the ceasefire is in the second phase of this now.
2:20:23Prisoners will withdraw in six months.
2:20:31And then election ceasefire and everything else in the next phase, which can run concurrently, but which, if we can't get it concurrently, can start later.
2:20:43I'm positive because I wrote the proposal.
2:20:53I will be shifted in that last proposal.
2:20:58Slightly.
2:21:00But that's what's the complication is to explain the two phases.
2:21:05That I cannot do it in a secret?
2:21:07No.
2:21:09That you cannot do it.
2:21:10That really is too complicated.
2:21:14I wonder if there is the power to do it in my...
2:21:35I think that, you know, here's a, here's a layman who didn't know a damn thing about it.
2:21:42We're so close that he thought it's a tremendous little matter.
2:21:45Wallop.
2:21:48Let's see what he comes up with.
2:21:49What I'm getting at is that I hear...
2:22:13Yeah, he's already been talked to, I think, by Rose.
2:22:17Or you, I don't know whether you talked to her.
2:22:19I don't see it.
2:22:22Do you want to make a Wednesday night?
2:22:24Tuesday?
2:22:25Oh, Wednesday.
2:22:26For Wednesday night, there are two problems.
2:22:28There's a press club dinner, which they have to... And secondly...
2:22:38You'd get a North Vietnamese reaction before you'd have your story out.
2:22:56Well, that will take them out, because if you speak on Tuesday night, they won't really get it until Wednesday morning.
2:23:03They can't respond until they get instructions from Hanoi.
2:23:09And I don't think they'll be able to respond before Thursday.
2:23:24Well, he'll get it.
2:23:25He'll get it.
2:23:36But he thought it was, it was a terrific, it's beyond, this is a dramatic thing.
2:23:44Tremendous impact.
2:24:09provides hope, et cetera, with regard to the war, the prisoners, peace, et cetera.
2:24:16See, that's a different point.
2:24:18Well, I think it shows that we are positive.
2:24:22It shows we have a program.
2:24:24And, well, it gets on once again.
2:24:27Well, many have said that we shouldn't be happy.
2:24:31We have to...
2:24:33I saw Musty on television yesterday.
2:24:35He said we would have offered a withdrawal for a deadline last year already.
2:25:02So what does this mean?
2:25:03What does that mean?
2:25:05We did it.
2:25:06What's he going to say now?
2:25:10He did what he said he would have done.
2:25:12So where is he now?
2:25:13Now he's going to have to go back and say, well, I haven't done more than that.
2:25:17Or else he's going to have to say, well, he did just the right thing.
2:25:21We didn't do anything.
2:25:23Well, we did later.
2:25:25Here.
2:25:26Later.
2:25:26The first thing we did is we agreed to a deadline, provided they would agree to a withdrawal.
2:25:36I said, if you tell me that you will release the prisoners and you will have the ceasefire, I will give you a deadline.
2:25:44And that the deadline will be the first item on the agenda and nothing else will be discussed.
2:25:48That's like giving them a deadline.
2:25:51And they turned it down.
2:25:53Then we gave them a deadline.
2:25:55And then they gave us a deadline.
2:25:57Then we gave them a deadline anyway.
2:26:00In August.
2:26:04Yeah.
2:26:04And then we gave them a shorter one in October.
2:26:09Seven months one in October.
2:26:11Seven and six now.
2:26:18and i will take the position in my speech this is a proposal it is fair i agree it is i wouldn't say it's been turned down
2:26:44or even in private.
2:26:49Well, I'd say you've had two months.
2:26:50They've had two months to study it now.
2:26:53It's time for them to respond.
2:27:10How's the Air Force doing?
2:27:15Well, I think it's doing pretty well now on the trails.
2:27:22One has to talk on the assumption that the airport is no good, right?
2:27:29And that we just shouldn't...
2:27:38They are inflicting, according to our indication, some very heavy casualties in Laos.
2:27:46That's what I mean in northern Laos.
2:27:54But they're doing fairly well on the trails because of the center system we now have established there.
2:28:03And...
2:28:06The major thing in the North is to gain time.
2:28:25We can get through this dry season.
2:28:27I mean, they still have to take Blanquia completely.
2:28:33Let's come back to South Vietnam for a moment.
2:28:35What about that?
2:28:35A little story or something.
2:28:39Mr. Jerry, the Washington Post wrote this line.
2:28:44Although sons of bitches have a vested interest, the gloating in American setbacks is not to be believed.
2:29:05It is, of course, a murderous problem for the South Vietnamese.
2:29:09We have 500,000 Americans on whom they rely are getting out.
2:29:12Much of our air force is getting out.
2:29:15And the miracle is that they haven't disintegrated.
2:29:18The miracle is that, of course, the South Vietnamese, if we could do
2:29:37uh, and cut them out then.
2:29:39On the other hand, uh, uh, two thousand, he got them good, I suppose, right?
2:29:45So, uh, no, you can do that thing, but, but it's, uh, it's
2:30:07If the South Vietnamese fight in the highlands, the North Vietnamese
2:34:36Thank you.
2:37:57The idea of a community large, large, and narrow.
2:38:00It was an elective, elective, or a large, large, large.
2:38:03It was an elective, elective,
2:38:25Thank you.
2:39:12Thank you.
2:41:03Please, please, please, send us a letter.
2:41:06Please, please, please, send us a letter.
2:41:38Thank you.
2:42:21All right.
2:43:06I don't know what's going on here.
2:45:38Thank you, fellas.
2:45:39You're the real princess.
2:47:5110 or 12 years old or something.
2:47:54He said, well, did you know that the young man who leaked the secret papers to Jack Hennessey has been transferred to Seattle?
2:48:06And John, you know, because there were other people that were guests there apparently, and John kind of laughed and said, you know, what do you think about it?
2:48:22Her father is a Mormon who was in the Indian Embassy with this woman at that time.
2:48:31And she's a pure coincidence.
2:48:33She has to be a schoolmate of .
2:48:35But the point is, this guy has told his family, and his daughter has seen
2:48:50at the 10-year, 12-year-old level, this, and then Jody brought it up at the dinner table.
2:48:55Of course, John laughed and said, well, you know, we did that, and we'll be transferring it to Seattle, and kind of brushed it off.
2:49:05But the point is, there's the range of people who know is, well, first of all, they don't understand the transfer because it's all in papers.
2:49:15He went faster than Matthews, wasn't he?
2:49:17No.
2:49:18That's the interesting thing.
2:49:19That was the plan originally, and then as it did, what's the other story?
2:49:23He went to, yeah, he went to the North West instead of the Midwest.
2:49:29I could understand.
2:49:32But it was his choice.
2:49:36I think so, yeah.
2:49:38Yeah, they gave him two options.
2:49:42That puts him in the robins, it's true, isn't it?
2:49:44Yeah.
2:49:46I don't think so.
2:50:16The only way to come out on it is that he's got to confess because we have no case against him right now.
2:50:24We cannot prove it because we have no witness.
2:50:28The only witness is Anderson.
2:50:31See, that's the thing.
2:50:32It's the most perfect service in the actual case.
2:50:35And we know that he did it.
2:50:37We know that he did it because nobody else could have done it.
2:50:40He did that, and I'm the victim, and I'm the court of law.
2:50:42We've got the evidence.
2:50:44We've got witnesses that he took the papers.
2:50:46I want to know what the hell we have done with the witnesses that he came in.
2:50:52Most people have forgotten about his papers.
2:50:57I mean, what I meant is, everybody does that around here, they take papers off, they violate the security regulations.
2:51:02The question is, the disclosure that we believe is wrong, and we cannot prove that.
2:51:09That's our case, and so we've got to stay absolutely firm.
2:51:12We can't prove it.
2:51:13I don't think they, I don't think they're going to make a home version of that.
2:51:20I know he wants to, but he couldn't bear it.
2:51:23Well, he said, we don't think.
2:51:26Well, he did.
2:51:27I think that's a show of it.
2:51:32But, yes, hey, I don't, I'm not, I'm not even going to be honest with you.
2:51:36I'm sure it ain't the opposite.
2:51:38That's how I believe it.
2:51:40Then you will come out and this guy decides to be an astronaut.
2:51:44And here, in this case, he would be an astronaut.
2:51:47But, uh, but I understand that we have no indication of that at this point, do we?
2:51:52I mean, can't, can't see any, well, God could have a consciousness and be as a Mormon and all that sort of stuff, isn't there?
2:52:06Well, we have a perfect record of that respect, there's no question, I mean, and I,
2:52:16And we're doing a responsible thing.
2:52:18We have no case against what we're taking under close observation.
2:52:21We also removed the cabinet.
2:52:23Yeah.
2:52:23Yeah.
2:52:23No, I closed the office.
2:52:38Because we, and here again the vector comes up, our line as we did it, because that was one of the places that we thought might have been a security leak.
2:52:47They're taking every possibility, but they said, well, you're not sure.
2:52:51We're not sure.
2:52:53Well, here they moved all outside offices that were under our control.
2:52:57Exactly.
2:52:58Exactly.
2:53:06Almost to me.
2:53:08It's almost done.
2:53:09The cost of it could be to believe that it didn't kill me.
2:53:18First, I've been that smart.
2:53:20Second, I could have done it for that reason.
2:53:25I just cannot believe it.
2:53:28But it should have been together.
2:53:30He's a smart guy.
2:53:31I don't think any of us could have done it better.
2:53:37I think that on top of this, there is some other background going on on top of it that turns the significance of these.
2:54:02Well, that's true.
2:54:03That's true.
2:54:04I've had an injury that speaks to this.
2:54:08The back arm, you can tell that it goes on.
2:54:10And it's been hanging with us.
2:54:12But that's still, it's not going away from the back.
2:54:16If you're pretty clear, it is.
2:54:18It's like this.
2:54:20Cardinal stuff, bring it on.
2:54:23Very hard.
2:54:26It shows you what the pentagon paper is.
2:54:28The pentagon paper is named.
2:54:34And the press, what really is running, we could demolish this in a number of ways.
2:54:43One, the Washington Special Action Group is not a policy-making group.
2:54:48It's an action group.
2:54:50The typical procedure in a crisis is, for example, during the Jordan crisis, that you meet with the NSE in the morning.
2:54:57and then the action group implement what you decide.
2:55:02Right.
2:55:02Second, a number of the things that you said, such as sneaking planes into Pakistan through Jordan, it's true we did it, but not through the action group.
2:55:36So a lot of this thing is totally wrong and misleading.
2:55:40We did offer a timetable to the Indians, but we didn't tell Keating because we didn't want him to blab.
2:55:47So a lot of the facts where we are accused of lying or of trickiness, we could defend ourselves, but it would be
2:56:04In everyone's judgment was, and I think it's probably right that I shouldn't defend myself, so I never, I haven't answered any of these things.
2:56:12Well, don't be an archer.
2:56:17I do not do it in America.
2:56:20I do it in the United States.
2:56:23It's always a question, actually, what's the story today, what's the story tomorrow, what's the story the next day.
2:56:32To get back to the bureaucracy, the same, the attack, it will really be fundamentally on you and not on me, as subterfuge is.
2:56:46And I'm afraid that there are going to be some matches during this election.
2:56:50That is what worries me.
2:56:52Because there's now no, no bar to it anymore.
2:56:56Anderson, who is a scum, has become a hero.
2:56:59He's moved to the editorial page as a result, and he's a hero.
2:57:07The papers print anything.
2:57:11The one way of handling it is to tell the bureaucracy behind it.
2:57:15Oh, yeah.
2:57:16Well, that's what we're going to do.
2:57:17One way or another.
2:57:27Well, actually, it's amazing, the White House and the foreign policy areas hasn't, I'm not saying it hasn't any other, but it's the one I know, hasn't really anything significant yet.
2:57:52And every year, the way we avoided weeks on end, that was to avoid knowledge.
2:58:01Taking the court thing, for example, was a very different feeling.
2:58:06Well, that was the only way that many people were around here, right?
2:58:11They had to admit it to the pendulum, right?
2:58:19Okay.
2:58:20Okay, thank you.
2:58:21Oh, wait, thanks.
2:58:22Our panelist is asking, and I guess, I don't know whether you concur, but that you've taken a couple minutes to thank Ingersoll for accepting the Japan poster.
2:58:32Are you meeting with Ingersoll now?
2:58:34Yeah, he's waiting for me.
2:58:36Well, has he accepted it?
2:58:37Yes.
2:58:37Yes.
2:58:42Of course, I'm a great fan of mine.
2:58:45They want me to do it.
2:58:46Is that his plan, your plan?
2:58:47Yeah.
2:58:53He was just coming in to see me.
2:58:54He wanted to be assured that he could have that access to us.
2:59:22All right, you go have a little talk with him now.
2:59:25You're going to see him right now.
2:59:27Yes.
2:59:28And bring him right in here.
2:59:30Okay.
2:59:30I'll wait.
2:59:32You take 15 minutes with him.
2:59:34I'll take 15 minutes with him.
2:59:36Yeah, you take the jewelry man and bring him in and send him to the business.
2:59:42Yes, sir.
2:59:43Let George come in, too.
2:59:46George, hey, hey.
2:59:47I'll get George.
2:59:48Let him come in, too.
2:59:49This is an old friend of his.
2:59:53I'm going to do it.
3:00:19You know, Bill called me home yesterday.
3:00:48Yeah, in a sense, he received what he calls a peremptory memo in Manning, which I haven't seen, but I suppose I'm getting a copy of, that says that
3:01:09that Henry's view was that all this did was reflect the understanding as to what we were going to do, how it was going to work, and that Bill advised ahead of time on any meetings he was going to have as to the objective and the talking points of anything related to Russians and Chinese, which is what Bill agreed to in meeting with John.
3:01:33But Henry, by sending the note, all he's got to do is stand her up again.
3:01:36And Bill's point here is, he says, I have orders from the president.
3:01:39He says, I don't take this note from Henry.
3:01:43The theory here is that the president has announced his policy.
3:01:46The State Department carries it out.
3:01:48The NSC is not supposed to be an operation.
3:01:50It's just supposed to be a policy group.
3:01:53He says, I don't mind checking with Henry, and Henry checks with me, but I am not going to take this instruction of notifying Henry what I'm doing.
3:02:02I don't work for Kissinger.
3:02:04And he says, so I will not do anything.
3:02:07I haven't even noticed him, and so I talk to him personally.
3:02:12And that's the problem.
3:02:15He says on the mid-ease, for instance, the NFC is not involved in the mid-ease.
3:02:23They're not supposed to be in operations.
3:02:25And I'm handling that.
3:02:26We've been doing it for three years, and it's worked very well.
3:02:30And in answer to that, of course, the only reason it's worked well is because then he's been holding the beams in behind him.
3:02:36And we kept it glued together, which meant it would breathe through.
3:02:42than any appearances.
3:02:46But if Senators know this is what we agreed on, if he doesn't say anything about the European shitbox, they will let me know anything.
3:02:57This is because Henry goes into the presidential complaints, he gets his way.
3:03:01I don't go into the presidential complaints, so I get left out.
3:03:05He said, I'll be good.
3:03:06He said, you know, Henry and the president worked this out together.
3:03:09There's no reason why I should be kept out of things.
3:03:13I agree the state has to be kept out, but the problem I have is that the president always says to me in front of me, I want Bill to know everything.
3:03:21And then Henry doesn't tell me.
3:03:23He said, no, this Israeli stuff, Bill sent me a batch of stuff, and they've been meeting in the ravine and not telling him.
3:03:33And he said, the president knows all about this issue of scoffing.
3:03:36He said, I haven't been listening to the president, giving me my orders as to what I'm supposed to do.
3:03:42Our policy in the Middle East has been good.
3:03:43I will not have Henry second guessing all the time.
3:03:46I will keep the President fully advised that he wants to do it.
3:03:49But the meetings I've been having this week, that we've been having, are pursuant to a directive from the President.
3:03:58But, he says the problem here is that Henry doesn't keep me advised of anything at all, what he's doing.
3:04:05I don't know anything about Russia or China trip, except about Al-Qaida the other day, and a few others.
3:04:12Since I would disregard the instructions from Henry and I'm not working for Henry, the President says that he doesn't want me to know about Russia or something, then at least I know where I stand.
3:04:21But when the President says I want Bill to know everything, then I expect to know everything without him screwing it up.
3:04:29Now, my view is, well, but I think, I think we've got to fix it.
3:04:36And I don't, I don't necessarily think that one really brings the issues of ADE.
3:04:42I have told Bill to keep working on ADE, and I'm here for ADE, because I've got ADE in Rihanna, Detroit.
3:04:51And we've been playing through ADEs there for the last year.
3:04:55Now, the present time, I don't know,
3:04:59I think you're going to talk a little longer, that's all.
3:05:02There's a problem.
3:05:03I met with Ravine this morning.
3:05:12and he's just come from the meeting with state or yesterday he met with us at 11 45 and rogers talked to me right after i mean he didn't tell me that he still has but a memorandum regarding negotiations and told them
3:05:35But they're going to do something about it, and they schedule another meeting for today, for Monday.
3:05:39And the Israeli cabinet met yesterday about this memorandum.
3:05:42We've never seen a memorandum in hand.
3:05:47So Henry did say in the same conversation, I want you to understand that I reviewed this whole situation carefully, and I've concluded that I can leave because of the country and the President, I have to say.
3:06:05that Henry keeps the President in point, but it's very good he keeps the President in
3:06:31And it is a matter of whether Henry will tell you or you will tell Henry.
3:06:35But Henry is the president's tank, and he is not a department and operating a separate department.
3:06:41The MSC is not a department of the government the way the State Department is.
3:06:46It's a staff facility for the president.
3:06:49And I went through all this stuff, you know, we've all here made this very good impression on the lab, but there is a difference.
3:06:58Now, Andrew's got another one where he's trying to get a study on the European Security Conference.
3:07:03I mean, Rogers explained that he has exclusive jurisdiction.
3:07:06He will not put it into the NSC, and he says it has to be because it's a negotiation that he could have signed.
3:07:10But Rogers won't give him anything to do with that.
3:07:16So, yeah, we're rocking the security.
3:07:24Yes.
3:07:49But the problem there is he keeps going back, you know, don't give me that stuff.
3:07:53I had to get my instructions from the person.
3:07:55I had my own secret, then I'll see the person.
3:07:58He told me he wants me to do this, you know, all the time.
3:08:01I mean, all the other things.
3:08:03I mean, I was just, you know, a year and a half ago, and I told you, you know, it's not even very scary.
3:08:10But every discussion in front of me, you know, I have to take it away from me.
3:08:17Well, one basic policy that Rogers operates on, which is, he goes back to when he first came into office, is that the MSP has nothing to do with operations, that it's supposed to be a policy body, but not an operating body.
3:08:36Now, there was some rumbling of that theory in the early days, but it rapidly changed like about an hour after he got involved.
3:08:46and he excluded us to pretend that.
3:08:48I think that ought to be built in the budget.
3:08:51It isn't whether it operates.
3:08:54And it's the intention of the president's both policy making and policy implementation.
3:09:03And Senator St. Wessig is totally an operating body.
3:09:06It is the policy body of all.
3:09:07You can carry it off then.
3:09:15Well, my view is to talk to Mitchell about this, and I think on this one, we've got to put it to Bill, to assert that we've got to make it a point to Bill that he does have to keep you posted.
3:09:32And if he keeps you posted, do you think he wants to tell you otherwise?
3:09:37Well, it's hard to do that.
3:09:38He doesn't trust you to get it to me.
3:09:49there has to be
3:10:14I agree with you in principle.
3:10:16I have a feeling, I don't know anything about it, I haven't seen the memorandum, but it might be your trying to get a memorandum that wasn't written to him.
3:10:43That makes some rather tough remarks about detergent pros and a lot of other things.
3:10:48That's good.
3:10:48I think they just won't do it.
3:10:49We've got to cut it down and try for other verbs and kind of anything like that.
3:10:57I'm sorry, Rose.
3:10:58I'm sorry that Rose didn't give it to him because I asked Rose for a copy of it.
3:11:02And she said no, that he was sitting up to give it to her.
3:11:04And he didn't give me one.
3:11:05And I'm sure she would do the same thing with it.
3:11:09I can't tell you what Sapphire was supposed to be doing, but that's fine.
3:11:14But I don't think he would have given anything up.
3:11:16Because I would guess Bill did.
3:11:20Bill did.
3:11:21Bill did.
3:11:22So I said, I'm muscled.
3:11:25I think he did pretty good.
3:11:27I think I'm muscled.
3:11:29Well, I think I'm going to hear it.
3:11:33I think I'm going to hear it.
3:11:35Well, on bill here, I still think that it can come.
3:11:54And there's sometimes a direct way to do these things.
3:11:57There's one of those, and God named some to you.
3:12:01God gave all of you.
3:12:02And he was going to confess anything.
3:12:04All right, Mr. God named me into that.
3:12:08I have got to see everything that he's doing wrong.
3:12:11Now, I'm going to show you what's got to really fix up for the fact of telling him about the Jews.
3:12:17There's a political team here that we must not allow, we must not force our hand too hard at this point and choose, you know what I mean?
3:12:27Now that's got to be put to Bill Hart.
3:12:30And Mitch has got to put that in political terms.
3:12:34Not getting the state totally out of the right and wrong, but in the areas of the rich, because we're now a political leader and that means that
3:12:45that we want to keep them.
3:12:48We've got to avoid a confrontation with the Israeli.
3:12:53You know, it's not going to be a total thing that they have, unfortunately, on China's Russian trip, because he's not going to be in one of those.
3:13:02I know you want to do it indirectly.
3:13:04I don't see how you can do it a little bit indirectly.
3:13:07And it just seems to me that John and I have got to say to him in a way that he understands what he is going to do.
3:13:19His mind has got to be stopped when it comes to directory memos.
3:13:24That's, yeah, that's got to stop.
3:13:26But I have read some of his memorandums that come down whenever I talk.
3:13:30But he says, you know what I mean, he'll come in, just based on almost a single statement, he'll go out and write a goddamn directory memo.
3:13:41He's putting it all on me.
3:13:42That's what he did, apparently, for what Bill said.
3:13:44He said the person has ordered that.
3:13:47or has directed that, all communications, that idea of the woman in Venice and all communications and all that, which was his way of moving to what a rather subtle plane that Mitchell and I had set up that he might have held together if he hadn't smashed it with a sledgehammer.
3:14:02That's exactly what he did.
3:14:04He smashed it with a sledgehammer.
3:14:06He wanted to make it crawl.
3:14:08That's what he was trying to do.
3:14:10I think that must be it.
3:14:11Because you would have gotten to that false, sated face.
3:14:16And that's what he was doing.
3:14:17He was making it crawl.
3:14:19And his memorandums are always that way.
3:14:22That's why I'm going to, you know, I may have had to send more of it myself.
3:14:32Thank you.
3:14:59yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
3:15:36I would say that this one is for you to have one of the best.
3:15:46I've heard of Hoover Village.
3:15:47I've already heard of it.
3:15:48I've been meeting the office for a while.
3:15:51I've heard of Hoover Village.
3:15:51I've heard of it.
3:15:52It was called Hoover's Fallout in 1928.
3:15:54I didn't know it was in 1928.
3:15:56It was the most magnificent embassy residence in the world at that time.
3:16:02It was at the very beginning of the Christchurch.
3:16:05So you've got to turn it.
3:16:06It's still a nice building.
3:16:08It might be a little nice.
3:16:10Well, let me say that I didn't consider it.
3:16:17No, no, we looked forward to it.
3:16:22We decided to put the arm around it.
3:16:27I wouldn't ask you, you wouldn't ask me to do it for all the cosmetics and all the rest of the beauty and that.
3:16:35You don't want the surgery and all the rest of that stuff.
3:16:40But what I want you to know is that if you're a fashion entertainer, either from Kansas or Belgium or an awful lot of other places like that, anybody would even ask you to go.
3:16:54That's the main reason why you should go.
3:17:58We're at it.
3:18:00Well, I'm not personal.
3:18:02I'm just a little appreciative of him.
3:18:04He used to come to me when I was nine or his dad.
3:18:08He was better than all of us.
3:18:09I mean, my mom used to come to him.
3:18:11He used to stay at the Michael Center, you know.
3:18:13His father was always up there at first line.
3:18:16He was my dad.
3:18:17He was a very strong guy.
3:18:19But, you know, I was surprised.
3:18:22We were telling Mark when I found him.
3:18:25You know, I told him every time I was going to meet him.
3:18:27He was still there.
3:18:27He's still there.
3:18:30I believe it would improve your illness.
3:18:33It would improve.
3:18:35And, uh...
3:18:36Uh, of course.
3:18:37And, uh... We'll, uh... We'll meet at various times each other, of course, when I'm here.
3:18:43Once you get 30% confirmation, I think you can come in for a talk, and we'll meet over at 7 p.m. Or at any time, uh...
3:18:52So, uh...
3:18:52I think we can do the counts, but, you know, by that time, the level of situation isn't going to have a problem.
3:19:12What about, uh, telling the board at this time of day?
3:19:49I hope I have that standard.
3:19:51I should not have brought this to you.
3:19:56I could have killed you.
3:19:57Remember, Tokyo is a man's town.
3:20:02Tokyo is a man's town.
3:20:07I didn't call that.
3:20:10Thank you.
3:20:13Well, I don't know.
3:20:15I think Bill's being, you know, small talk.
3:20:18This is a lot of boys.
3:20:20This is not their, I mean, this is a little better thing.
3:20:23He's got a lot of sense.
3:20:25He's been given reasons to.
3:20:26And he has, now that's the problem with this all the way through.
3:20:29He comes in one way or the other.
3:20:32He's got a lot of sense about that thing.
3:20:34What happened to that?
3:20:36Did you ever talk with him?
3:20:37What happened?
3:20:50He told me after the fact, you know, just before Rogers called me about having gotten me, he said, he said, I've, I've, he called me and directed, he said, I sent Rogers a directive that reflects our understanding.
3:21:07And I've now told them that all communications have to be clear.
3:21:11I said, gee, did you say have to be clear?
3:21:13He said, well, yeah, right, you know, that we have to have the best of us on it.
3:21:18And he said, I hope you'll back up the directive.
3:21:20And I said, well, you know, we have a problem.
3:21:23He said, well, if you don't mean to send in a directive, we have kind of an agreement here.
3:21:28Then he gets a little upset.
3:21:29He says, well, I know you guys are maneuvering around and trying to keep it.
3:21:34Cosmetics on it and all that.
3:21:37And that follows, he likes a nice flat, you know, pushing down on the ground.
3:21:42He's always done something about it.
3:21:45He's doing it all.
3:21:46He's doing the thing that the Jews usually do.
3:21:51He's humiliating.
3:21:52What does that mean?
3:21:53He can't humiliate Rogers.
3:21:54Rogers is a proud man.
3:21:56Now, the other thing, Rogers is, he would be a big enough man to know that we, the area singers, are Jewish friends.
3:22:04and sort of say, well, God damn it, Henry, you can't treat me this way, but I'll report to the president, you know what I mean?
3:22:12Now, Robert, when he talks about the Greenland, he's written around and so forth, of course.
3:22:24So, if you could do anything, thank you.
3:22:27I think Bill honestly believes in Henry.
3:22:54because of his proactivity and bias, is not trustworthy.
3:22:59And to be perfectly candid with you, I'm not sure either.
3:23:03I just don't agree with what you get down to.
3:23:05That is why Bill has been doing something.
3:23:08He needs to be certain.
3:23:10Well, you've done it all.
3:23:11Yeah.
3:23:12We had a problem.
3:23:12You told Dave that you tried to knock him down.
3:23:15We had to go in and get him around for some time, you know.
3:23:18That's when we had Rogers, you know, work with him.
3:23:21With Higgs.
3:23:23Now, he didn't say that, because he was still playing with Ravine, and he still claims that he was keeping that patch together, because Ravine was really the real one, and he's behind the scenes, reassurance is that he was faking it.
3:23:38How do we handle that?
3:23:40That's the one.
3:23:41That's the only reason I suggested about the procedure of having a private assembly.
3:23:56Through you.
3:23:57Well, we can do that better.
3:23:58See, people don't like that.
3:23:59We just don't know.
3:24:01You know what I'm saying?
3:24:02I understand this, but people don't like it.
3:24:04Listen, everything that comes into this office, or any capitals, let me speak it up.
3:24:11You know, I even have a memorandum from him.
3:24:14Use all sorts of people who know.
3:24:16I want to just present this to you.
3:24:17There's all sorts of people, right?
3:24:19I'm not going to introduce you.
3:24:20I know.
3:24:22I mean, he sees everything.
3:24:23I've seen it.
3:24:25It's probably...
3:24:27I do the same thing, you know, he runs it.
3:24:29And Henry will buy that, and he knows that I won't, you know, that you're not going to buy it.
3:24:37That makes Rogers feel better to deliver it to me.
3:24:39I mean, if you go privately to the president while you have it on, he'll show you, he'll say, this is, this is, this is the, that if you want to get anything, there's a little scent, and then if you need a rose, that's fine.
3:24:53That's abandoned.
3:24:54That's completely out of the channels.
3:24:56You should not get the education.
3:24:57The team will ask you about that if you get the education on that one.
3:25:01Security and personalization under the rules.
3:25:03In other words, if they ask about that, why, why do you need to be under some check?
3:25:08You have to do it that way.
3:25:10Because we want to monitor our staff with that.
3:25:11But we cannot have such a big matter go through here.
3:25:19And if you go out of your space to go down the back or something, I don't think you'll do it.
3:25:23I don't think it's very easy.
3:25:24I think that's, I think it's very, that's why I think, that's why I compromise.
3:25:28Because we're really moving the energy in a way that I think, like the hurricane security conference, I think we've got to face it down.
3:25:34Like Charlie Diller, I can't even, God damn it, can't regard him yet.
3:25:36What the hell is he doing?
3:25:37He can't let him in all the time.
3:25:39That's what I would say.
3:25:40The European Security Conference is a matter of all matters to me.
3:25:44He wants to know what we're going to discuss in the end.
3:25:47We've got an European Security Conference.
3:25:49It matters.
3:25:50I discussed it at every meeting.
3:25:54I discussed it at every one of these meetings.
3:25:59Then Bill says I won't send it to the State of the World.
3:26:02He said it depends good enough to say.
3:26:05Is that right?
3:26:08I don't know if that's what he said.
3:26:18The defense section is an E. The second one, foreign policy, is an E. It's like, you know, you don't have the foreign policy section in the State of the Union.
3:26:29But you have another policy that's been run around, but it's up with the other one.
3:26:33But the other way you view it, the domestic part, too, they're relevant, but you have to jump foreign policy into anything.
3:26:39Back in the, you know, last week, earlier, I guess, yeah.
3:26:43But, uh, how are you people, because of what's done, now that Mark called, see, John, you've got to see the general thing.
3:26:50I think there'll be a big nail on that, by the way, see, I was just going to enter, I'll enter, and he's going to show it to everybody.
3:26:57Are you okay in the city, you know, is that, well, is that where you want it at this point?
3:27:08Oh yeah, the Starhawks.
3:27:10I'm just going to look at the Hawks fans now and get me to press that back.
3:27:17Yeah, because I don't want that hand over me and I've got to get that really done properly.
3:27:34But it was rather good in sections because we were trying to get two out because we got one earlier.
3:27:52It was just bad.
3:28:03There on Saturday, or in the district, we were out there partying around, riding around, hitting each other.
3:28:12I mean, you guys, in the name of good God, it was that way at the beginning.
3:28:17Everyone had a season, and we had this hellish fight with the state.
3:28:22We're now at a point where both of them agree, the tension that John and I made to both of them, was that we've got a lot of problems, you've got differences, you don't meet at personal differences, you've got substantive differences, all that.
3:28:41All of those have got to be subordinated to aiding the foreign policy and being the reelection.
3:28:52And what we've got to do is hold this together and say here, and you just say this, and then you've got to do something here.
3:28:59Then first I've got to know everything because it's a little bit of a problem and so forth.
3:29:05He doesn't have confidence in you.
3:29:08You understand?
3:29:12I'm sorry, you're concerned.
3:29:16And we will be informed of everything you need to be informed of.
3:29:19There's no problem there.
3:29:22The second point is that the European Security Council, in his opinion, what in the name of God is Bill taking?
3:29:30Well, maybe, this may be one of our Henry's imaginations.
3:29:33There may not be anything that Henry can do.
3:29:36I don't know how Henry said it, but Henry made the point that Bill won't send it.
3:29:42That basic paper is the way it is.
3:29:47Well, God, I don't know.
3:29:48Here's the security counter.
3:29:49If you read that, it says, look, I am discussing four different meetings with four different kinds of people, a three.
3:29:56And so if there was anything there, I had to know, but I had to rely on it.
3:30:02I had to rely on the state and the NSC staff.
3:30:10Always happens a lot.
3:30:12I'm just reading, you know, about the best, not about the problems.
3:30:17I mean, it's a very good scavenger.
3:30:18It's a very good scavenger.
3:30:20Of course, they've got terrible, terrible bodies and seizures.
3:30:24You know, they're happy.
3:30:26That's a very good scavenger.
3:30:33We have nowhere else to go.
3:30:48You see, a lot of these people don't like each other.
3:30:50They're jealous of each other.
3:30:51Their status is jealous and a lot of other things.
3:30:54And we have done extremely well, I believe so.
3:30:58But this one, however, is difficult because it moves into an area where I have to belong personally to a great degree.
3:31:09And it's also being personal.
3:31:10And also, it's vitally important to gain that.
3:31:17To be perfectly frank with you, I don't have confidence, total confidence, in either Henry or Rogers.
3:31:23I have some more than Henry in the Rockies because Henry is huge now.
3:31:28Are we coming in recently?
3:31:30the worst thing that could happen would be for the president at any time on any subject to have total confidence in any one individual.
3:31:49And that's the worst thing he could possibly do.
3:31:54And the problem with Henry is he doesn't function only as a staff guy who is chanting other people's sins into you.
3:31:59He is also a protagonist himself and he tries to keep balance when he does a hell of a good job of that, I agree.
3:32:09And here's where it builds up.
3:32:11Here's where it builds up.
3:32:12Because as I say, Henry Leonard Bale sent a state case in here.
3:32:18And the layers.
3:32:19I have every goddamn thing the layer ever sent over here.
3:32:23It's terrible.
3:32:25But I see it.
3:32:26And I can see it.
3:32:27I see it.
3:32:34The other side of the coin is that
3:32:56But if Hammerhead had his brothers, we would be totally at the mercy of Israel, and that would be wrong.
3:33:02But as well, if we had done something more, you know, we would have had a ceasefire.
3:33:07And W. Rogers' credit on that, God, you must remember, Hammerhead opposed the ceasefire, because that was wrong.
3:33:15And then the opposed steps, which the captain had been predicting for, well, this big hang-up now is it's okay to want to talk about the airplanes, but they shouldn't be talking about negotiations.
3:33:24We don't want them to be pushing.
3:33:26And my understanding of that is, yeah, we've been pushing.
3:33:28We hit negotiations every time we talk.
3:33:30That's part of our standard line.
3:33:33But I tell Henry's, let them talk about negotiations.
3:33:36Just kind of choose to drag their feet until we get to the summit.
3:33:39And it works somehow.
3:33:40He knows they can do that.
3:33:42He knows they will.
3:33:44But he wants to, I think he wants to be in a position to control it.
3:33:52Well, I may be wrong.
3:33:54I may be wrong, maybe.
3:33:57But I think you're gonna face too much of a problem, Bob, to tell Bill.
3:34:03to send his communications on the Mideast through Henry to me.
3:34:08Because I think Bill, honestly, feels that as a senator, Henry as a Jew, will not see it straight.
3:34:15And incidentally, I think he may be right.
3:34:18I think that Henry makes his communications sometimes.
3:34:23I think it's very I want to watch
3:34:47I want them to study it.
3:34:48I'm going to layer it into the input and all the rest.
3:34:52This idea of study operating, can you imagine this?
3:34:57Both things must be around the same trip to service.
3:35:00And when they're answering, they want to get into that part of the game.
3:35:04Are you having a problem with that?
3:35:07Oh yeah, we always did.
3:35:10Unfortunately, they have to run this through China, so that's no problem.
3:35:15Russia should, if they can, and expect them to stick with each other at Moscow.
3:35:23That's it.
3:35:23Is he pushing out again?
3:35:25He's been very close to them in the meeting with Mitchell.
3:35:27He didn't handle it that, and I just thought again, you know, if it's that way around, if that again, if the major comes back, or if the major comes back, if they want him to go to Moscow.
3:35:39But what earthly use was considered?
3:35:42Well, his argument is that what it serves is that the Russians feel that they have to have that because the Chinese have it.
3:35:48That we would be downgrading them, at least to be the Chinese, if they don't get a passenger advance like the Chinese did.
3:35:54And it's a terrible thing.
3:35:57What?
3:35:58What do you mean?
3:35:58I mean, it is a burden on our lives.
3:36:14I had parts that he didn't, you know, that was, that you had been consistent on that all along.
3:36:20It was obvious that there was no basis for a high level of mansplaining in Moscow any more than there was to what many were parents who stayed out of the past year.
3:36:42And right now I haven't decided not to resign.
3:36:44I suppose what he would get convinced of this conversation really is.
3:36:50Maybe.
3:36:52Why?
3:36:53Oh, I think he's doing a little better than I thought he was at first.
3:36:59That's part of it.
3:37:01And part of it is he's kind of sat down and commuted with himself a little bit, discovered that when he resigns he ain't much left of it.
3:37:13He was supposed to have had a hard time with it.
3:37:15He didn't go to the fight.
3:37:18He probably didn't.
3:37:19He did.
3:37:20He told me that he'd do it.
3:37:26That's good.
3:37:27But to an absolute surface, you don't have options of resigning and not resigning.
3:37:33You've got to stay here to this election.
3:37:36So we're stuck with both of you.
3:37:39And we've got to find a way to make it work.
3:37:44You don't need to get on his rigor then right away.
3:37:48Just let him bring it out.
3:37:49Let him suck out.
3:37:51But just say, I have not done all of it.
3:37:53There's political reasons.
3:37:54I hear the damn Jews right in here.
3:37:56He doesn't prefer it all to Spain.
3:37:59That's why I told him to go kiss my ass and not be getting political.
3:38:04I told him to go to Michigan.
3:38:06I told him to go to Michigan, but it's got to be done.
3:38:09We are now running very, very, we need to end on this, not because of the votes, to make it clear, so the bill is smart enough to raise the question, but because of the influence, and not because of money, but because of the money we denied to others.
3:38:23Not we want it for ourselves, but we denied to others.
3:38:27It's really true.
3:38:29We can play this game pretty well.
3:38:31We can play a game that's just going all the way out on the other side.
3:38:34They can go to the hands.
3:38:34If you want to remember, they put up $8 million here because they were hungry in the last two days of the camp.
3:38:39So I can't mention that to them, but the children said it.
3:38:41And we're trying to avoid that.
3:38:46We should just talk boldly to each other.
3:38:50Now, this is going to be a pleasant conversation.
3:38:52It's going to be interesting.
3:38:59Well, he's pretty good at keeping it under the surface, which he's got to do.
3:39:04Oh, that's right.
3:39:06The reason you think, though, why do you keep things out of here?
3:39:24Isn't the briefing the only place that we have any evidence of any of this?
3:39:29I don't think there's anything else.
3:39:31What the hell else does the State do that we care about?
3:39:35Well, the briefing is.
3:39:39The briefing has discharged Senator Wilder.
3:39:41Did the Secretary of State meet with the Russian ambassador and ask him about the president first?
3:39:45If what he's going to say is what his objectives are?
3:39:47That's correct.
3:39:49You should meet with him.
3:39:50Henry tells me when he meets with him and I don't know.
3:39:53And that's Henry's point.
3:39:54Henry says, I have never been with the Russian ambassador, previously telling the press why I'm meeting with him and what I expect to cover with him.
3:40:03Roger should do the same.
3:40:08And Roger's answer is, well, Henry doesn't tell me what he's meeting with.
3:40:16It's a little different because you can answer back if you're not the person.
3:40:18If you're right, you just let them get themselves in the way.
3:40:24I'll tell them if I think it's proper.
3:40:31Yeah, that's it.
3:40:32And then, and then just, and then how you handle that with Henry, just say, you know, that's, that's it.
3:40:39Just try to read it harder.
3:40:41Before you say anything else, you'll see everything.
3:40:54I'll let Mitchell tell, I won't, but Mitchell can tell that he didn't stand directed to do the work since we had it all patched together and then trying to knock it out of the ballpark again.
3:41:04I can see now, you know, I don't see all of his directives, but, uh, he, uh, would you make a note to Al?
3:41:12Al, whenever he sees a directing that he thinks is too abrasive, he's got to get it in the game.
3:41:16You know, he's got to cool it down.
3:41:21I bet Alan would have seen that.
3:41:23You think he did?
3:41:32You know what?
3:41:33He's a rough rider, particularly whenever he pitches on top.
3:41:39Correct?
3:42:13John, you won't be a target analyst.
3:42:19That's the political types.
3:42:38He's got no problem with being a vet.
3:42:41That's exactly what being a vet is.
3:42:43He has to do this.
3:42:55that we're wrong, basically, that Earl and Kissinger are wrong in their way of dealing with cabinet people in that he thinks we drive it too hard on the cabinet, and that we should make, that any cabinet officer should have the feeling that he has access to the president, that he can, that he doesn't have to go through a set, and that's the point I made to Congressman.
3:43:14I'm not trying to get between you and the president on any of this.
3:43:17I'm trying to be a tool for carrying out what you and the president want done, and working in your direction on it.
3:43:24But,
3:43:28He thinks that if he can't deal directly with it, that's why he argues that if you get the reorganization and got to eight capital officers instead of 12, and then got the right capital officers, if you have John Connolly's
3:43:45You know, today, uh, George Holtz, George Holtz's and, uh, John Mitchell's house, the people that we're talking to, and they said, the kind of people you also, and I applaud him and Kevin, are people like Erlichman, and people like that.
3:43:58Did you have an L.A. person?
3:44:00And let me say L.A. person, right?
3:44:02Did you try and deal with a person who meant his view, and said, what you ought to do then is make an undersecretary for each department to run it.
3:44:12and make the cabinet officers actually your executive vice presidents and bring them all over the EOB and set up a row of offices on the first floor of the EOB where all the captains sit.
3:44:23And then you deal with the government and have them deal with your White House staff and have a cabinet back there.
3:44:29Pretty much so.
3:44:30And eliminate the kids and peers in New York and deal with them directly.
3:44:42I must say though about one thing we do have to do.
3:44:52The urban operating is good.
3:44:55It's good because he handles a lot of very difficult things.
3:44:58It's good given the capital that you have.
3:45:00The funny answer is that it's not the best system.
3:45:02The best system would be to have two or three others like him in the cabin that he could be able to handle on the urban operation and the likes of John Lee and Colby.
3:45:15Frankly, Morton is really, really good.
3:45:19and saying they are not capable of really putting it in.
3:45:24Now, on the other hand, the Gisler operation is not ahead due to the fact that he sold, well, and you know, to the British and it's personal, that he personally
3:45:41The humiliants, members of the camp, the humiliants, the lairs, the military rockets, and any of these guys went wrong.
3:45:49And we don't think they're personally malignant.
3:45:52And that's what we're talking about.
3:45:54I mean, they didn't do this.
3:45:57And worse than even Adam, you know, because he's got the Jew regime, which is, well, plus he is rational.
3:46:04Adam's apparently at least talked to him.
3:46:06Actually, he was very proud of him.
3:46:07He at least was Charlie's son.
3:46:09Always full of voice.
3:46:11Henry's not.
3:46:11Henry, there are times when there's just, you know, he gets up and walks out of the room.
3:46:14He's like, please don't walk out until we finish.
3:46:16He slams it open.
3:46:23It's frustrating itself to try to deal with somebody who hangs up on you on the phone and walks out of your room.
3:46:36Yeah, yeah.
3:46:38It sure does.
3:46:39It helps to read what other people have gone through.
3:46:42People laugh at you.
3:46:43People have tantrums.
3:46:45They have tantrums.
3:46:48They act like children.
3:46:51They cry.
3:47:10I do think Bill has been, Bill, in his way, by not bringing things up, has been fine.
3:47:17He knows the personal burdens in the office.
3:47:20But he has been totally goddamn difficult in terms of trying to work things out, and totally blind in terms of his own department.
3:47:30And he knows damn well that they should, he just can't help but know it can't be.
3:47:35Has there ever been anything out of the state, out of the White House staff, or the NSP staff, or out of any district, in any word, in one line, anywhere, in Brandon?
3:47:59a criticism of the secretary or the state department or the state bureaucracy.
3:48:04Yet every day in those three years, somewhere in the press, there's been at least one, usually ten,
3:48:12references of some kind, of a high state department official or something of that sort, who has been critical of the president, of the administration's policy, of the White House, and of many other states in the United States.
3:48:28In fact, this is an inflexible law.
3:48:30That's the way it is.
3:48:31There is never a day goes by that we don't get shot at from over there, and there has never been a shot from here yet.
3:48:38And that is a reality you've got to deal with.
3:48:40And he said, well, that may be true.
3:48:42He said, I guess it is.
3:48:43But I know what these press people tell me about what they're saying over there about us.
3:48:47I said, well, it's very strange that they never print a line of that, and they print all that lineage from the other side.
3:48:52The press people are saddened.
3:48:54Of course.
3:49:01And that is an unanswerable argument.
3:49:02Part of it is a problem.
3:49:03That's what it's all about.
3:49:10He loves that presence.
3:49:13Yeah.
3:49:13He's very sensitive.
3:49:22He reads everything.
3:49:38We also have to realize that as far as this political judgment, PR judgment, has been applied to his own activities, it has been a massive failure.
3:49:52He would be the last one to hear that.
3:49:55And I hear it here and here.
3:50:00And he's got to know it.
3:50:02He was in control of the country and saying, do you know who the Secretary of State is?
3:50:10And he's strong, weak, and so forth.
3:50:14And in the world, he's well-liked, but not considered being profound.
3:50:19Serious man.
3:50:20And he can't blame that on Kissinger and the NSC, because had he played his cards differently, he could have capitalized on Kissinger and the NSC, and Conrad was a very smart man, taking credit for everything they did.
3:50:31Just a dull chance to take a credit for everything the NSC did.
3:50:35And that's the way we started.
3:50:37If Rogers had been inflexible and infallible, supposedly the way Henry is, and had learned that, well, he can do his homework, you would have never had Henry out briefly, because Bill could have done it, which he would have rather have done.
3:50:49But he wouldn't have done it, Bob.
3:50:51Because Bill didn't have his heart, for example, no, he did not have his heart.
3:50:56But that's his fault.
3:50:57That was his fault.
3:50:58But I think there was a problem.
3:51:00We came down to it.
3:51:02What the hell?
3:51:02I had to do the November 3rd thing, which was the first thing.
3:51:07I had to do it pretty much by myself.
3:51:10When it worked, and they all started, and they all came on, but it's very interesting.
3:51:15And in all these times, I had to get up and hit the ball first.
3:51:22I think that's not very interesting.
3:51:23No, it's not very interesting.
3:51:30But Bill, because of his pathetic desire to be liked, and not to be on the wrong side,
3:51:38Yeah, because he's a god damn attractive person.
3:51:51And he really is.
3:51:53Yeah.
3:51:54People like him, don't they?
3:51:57On television.
3:51:59Yeah.
3:51:59When he has conviction, he does a good job of it.
3:52:02Yeah.
3:52:10He does a good job.
3:52:12I mean, he's not dumb.
3:52:13Everyone says he's dumb.
3:52:14He's wrong.
3:52:17He is a creative, intellectual giant.
3:52:20But he's very sharp, very sharp.
3:52:25And he's hard-spoken.
3:52:28He's lazy.
3:52:29He doesn't work hard most of the time.
3:52:32But when he does, he's lazy.
3:52:38I thought that.
3:52:40Well, no, this is lazy reading.
3:52:42He's not interested in the background, the strategy, the plot.
3:52:51He's not interested in the plot.
3:52:53He always gets tired of being a patient.
3:52:55He says, well, that's it.
3:52:56That's what we do.
3:52:57It's not lazy.
3:52:59It's the patient.
3:53:01Yeah.
3:53:02Yeah.
3:53:05I just need to reassure him that we're going to work this damn thing out.
3:53:14We've got to talk to him again.
3:53:44Now, on the other hand, you're talking about putting Henry Rogers.
3:53:48I do think they should have put it to Henry.
3:53:51Now, don't say that Henry is going to get away with this idea that Rogers is off the reservation and that you and Rogers are going to do that.
3:53:57You see, Henry's the kind of person to tell that to.
3:54:01He would think he was going to take Rogers from him.
3:54:04He's not going to want to get away with that now.
3:54:07I think that John could start having a talk with him and say, I don't think we need to do this stuff.
3:54:14I think he is.
3:54:22Let me talk to him before we talk.
3:54:47Yeah.
3:54:48Yeah.
3:55:17And I suppose that Peterson's probably going to come in on this council business of his, and I assume Connelly wouldn't buy that either because
3:55:31And in fact, it puts, it takes over the board.
3:55:35Councilman Mark.
3:55:37Well, they've got to hand it back.
3:56:01Well, I don't know if you've got another image.
3:56:04Also, we did some digital technology stuff like that before you see the part.
3:56:08So you can get all the tracks.
3:56:10Well, with what we've said, let me say it again.
3:56:14And we spent a lot of time animating staff and people.
3:56:21We had a lot of great honors in general.
3:56:25And we couldn't be just be thankful today.
3:56:29I think Anderson has been over a year and served his initiation period.
3:56:36He'll be a better cabinet officer.
3:56:38He'll work with staff when he's up.
3:56:41Do you understand?
3:57:07I mean, he had miracles that he could go through that never will, but he was willing to get a part of it.
3:57:16You know, he was getting rid of one, if I can see what I did.
3:57:25Let me make one final thing.
3:57:34Here's a good Bible for any man.
3:57:41The way he is abused
3:58:14and serves for his services.
3:58:18But because it gives it, it also has a big amount of all of its medications and grave problems we need to have, which is not great.
3:58:34Great problems are possible when we are in our captivity.
3:58:45Amen.
3:59:11Yeah.
3:59:27who the suspect is and that's probably .
3:59:30So what does it look like?
3:59:33That's what I ask.
3:59:34What does it look like if he did, if he crept, spirited around the town, right?
3:59:40How do you think he turned the other way?
3:59:42How do you think he turned the other way?
3:59:44I'm gonna start a little bit wrong this morning.
3:59:48We have the suspect.
3:59:50We have certain standards of evidence.
3:59:51We don't have a case.
3:59:52We don't have a case,
3:59:54He said he was trying to deal with the fact that he had violence in his service.
4:00:22I believe that somebody, I don't think we can do it, even if the board, if any, on this market, somebody was thinking the case of Anderson wants to be prosecuted.
4:00:40Right here.
4:00:43And that's me pushing this in order to do that.
4:00:48I see exactly why.
4:00:50Thank you.
4:00:52Yeah.
4:00:53Yeah.
4:01:24He said that on Saturday when he came up to me, he said, you know what?
4:01:55The idea that he was beating them.
4:02:08The idea that he was under attack.
4:02:12with no, nobody defending him.
4:02:14Now, that's gotta be 10 to 10 and a half, I mean, the fight is, you know, what is, we need a regular information.
4:02:24Well, specifically, you suggested, did you suggest that we actually, you know, heard that that would be appropriate?
4:02:30Right.
4:02:30Well, if you want to, that's what we need to do.
4:02:33All right, here, this is what I said.
4:02:36Okay.

Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on White House leaks and Anderson Papers

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 17, 1972

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