Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on White House leaks and Anderson Papers

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I was trying to say that I think the...

that the idea I have on the finance thing is a good one, except that it should not go to everybody.

And it's too, it is, I mean, the opinions expressed are still not, in fact, it should, for example, it should never go to Kissinger.

People like that, you know what I mean?

I mean, the only ones I think it should have are people that have to do something about the news.

It wouldn't have to come to me.

I mean, basically, you should have.

But it really is an analysis that rots your mind by somebody, you know, as to the kind of thing to watch for.

And I would think the group that I would have would be yourself, my great-grandfather.

And say that, you know, in here in Colston.

In Colston, exactly, yeah.

I'm just trying to say, so that when you have your meeting, maybe your staff meeting, you bring up a number.

But I don't want to get what Robert was going to say.

I saw something there that was coming up.

You can make comments about the China tragedy, the left and the right were both attacked and so forth.

That's the kind of thing that...

You bring it with you?

also give people strength.

Now, for example, one thing that you can point out today that ought to go to the staffers, that ought to go to you and the others, and we've got a right here on this regard to achieve very, very strong where Humphrey came out against the Richmond decision.

And I always have to push Errol and his crowd to see what the health position I'm going to take on the city.

The crowd doesn't have to walk on it.

That's why I told you that.

You wouldn't otherwise have given it to me.

You might.

You can't.

It's good to have one guy who doesn't have to do something about it.

Because you always have a trial.

The guy at Berkman is looking for those things.

He's looking for the same thing.

He'll look at it defensively.

Why don't you just say the same thing you're saying with him?

You don't want to analyze the challenge.

I think this is...

I closed that thing.

Thank you.

I'm sure Schultz will say what about now if he did the right thing.

I'll call the food standards now.

I think you put your finger on it much better than I have.

That's what I'd like to do.

myself, my guess is it probably is just as well that I not get involved in it for this reason.

It's too often.

I'll, I'll, I can get, I get a very good deal with somebody who's treating myself, and I will look at it in a far more balanced and objective way than I can get off, off, off of Buchanan's.

Or do you want to send it to me too?

I don't mind either way.

I'm getting, what I'm getting at is that I...

He won't do it if he doesn't think we're sending it to you.

I can't send it to you.

Because you know, the original approach was really to discount.

You said, for you to get a certificate on, fix on the actual...

Send it to us.

Send it to me.

Good, good, good.

I can carry on with that.

But I know that what happens in the news, you're absolutely right.

People will read those things if they want to be candidates.

We'll go for it.

He overrode it.

He should have dealt with the political stuff.

I mean, hell, it happens when you're on the political stuff.

You see, but that's all right, too.

And there are others who ought to be watching after this, and that's where we ought to jump on, on making a move, too, and the vice versa, on writing it, on the political stuff.

the other thing i was going to say is i don't think you know

I personally think that the, but I suggest that it should not be done every day.

You know, I think that it's better that, as a matter of fact, if you could get a, that's a good idea, you see, so that you don't get, yeah, but also it's a terrible, it's a terrible burden for fellow officers who are going to have to think every night about this.

And also, if he doesn't hop up, you react and hop up.

I had a frankly, he actually won Monday afternoon, after the night was together, and so he gets a few of them last week, and then another one on Thursday.

Yeah, just a look at Freddie so we know how to close out the week.

Yeah, that's right.

Puttersby, look at the week as to what we want to get for the week now.

There you go.

Document column.

This is a very good thing.

Wonderful, wonderful.

And then, I don't want you to get too much lightning.

You know what I mean?

No longer than what he's doing now.

This is fine.

Just drop some of the stories that come and go.

The problem with doing it every day is that he's going to pick out stories that are...

to get excitement that day, because he's told to do it, when they are going to run it.

Exactly.

And he could also, if he ever sees one that he wants to plug in the in-between days, obviously he could put a little topper on saying, a new type of urgency we've got to look out for is.

But he does that quite often, or somebody does.

You know, that's been done.

He could watch and say, be sure to watch for this or that or the other thing.

And, you know, put a flyer.

But then, in other words, he should write a memorandum every Monday afternoon, which we would get Tuesday.

And every, in other words, sort of lead young men.

And every Thursday, now you're talking.

That's the kind of thing we need, and that way it'll help with that end.

But let me suggest, limit it to Colson, yourself, Sigler, that's about it.

I don't think you should.

Well, I think Irving would better have it, because McGregor and Irving are so balanced that it isn't going to knock him off his kids anyway.

That's right.

But not his kids.

I don't think you should go to him.

You agree?

Yeah.

Well, it's good for Irving to get it, too, because Pat's evaluation will tend to be a little better than what would be more to the right, more to the right than the interaction on his cast, than his cast people give him.

Exactly.

The beginner has got a fine line, you know, he goes to the heart of things as fast as anybody I've ever saw.

He gets stuck in there and he's just .

And other people will crap around and this and that.

And he keeps this untrue against him.

It's not the truth, quite, by the way, because he held an asset in the campaign for that reason.

not an asset, if you allow yourself to react like that.

He's got the ability to get you stirred up.

He's extremely emotional about these things.

Emotion, but great power.

Oh, well, I know it's small, but I just wanted to be sure.

And I stopped, and I told Christ that we may not send around 35 copies of this draft to everybody.

And he always does that to everybody we meet.

But nevertheless, I noted some speculations in the press to the effect that I was going to make a very insidious, very awkward, and so forth.

And I guess that was the last issue that we expected to make about it.

Yeah.

And it is going to be, but it doesn't help in any common advance.

I'm sure somebody has said it with the best of intentions.

Yeah.

We all forget about it.

It is wrong to say our right is wrong.

They tend to be as humble as they are right.

Whoever puts those out usually doesn't know.

And sometimes somebody can't see them, though.

They see it in the rain.

Although I don't think he's...

The drafts have gone far at all this time.

I'm calling this time.

Other than early on, he's been working with them for, you know, I say, specifically.

I only like to see the board relations party.

He said, take her and watch what she's saying.

I said, okay.

And I said, you know, he's not talking back.

So I said, fine, that's okay.

All right, Scott.

I think he's left with Shakespeare and he left yesterday.

And Frank has to go because he's doing cultural exhibits and cultural events.

What a nice man for that.

There are some.

I hope they saw and realized these were enormous.

They would end up operating at their disposition.

Hell of a culture was where it began, like the Russians.

People would go down to the Kennedy Center and all that crap.

There are some nice things here.

There are.

Who would I worry about?

Oh, those things are, now that's, trip bypass, kind of mean that, kind of like Len would never be able to, he could never take, even if he could afford it, he could never do it because of who, you know, the position he goes into.

There's a spending for, take the drought, uh, with, with another rather nice people, Long Beach, and, and, and what they're writing, they saw, they saw the inside of the hotel, and, uh,

He drove in the car and he had a package.

So far, he had a nice car.

I went on the line just so he could see what it looked like.

They soak up all that socializing that you won't do when you're on the strip.

They'll have all kinds of dinner discussions.

They'll meet with the

Yeah, was he ever in that at all?

I can't remember.

I don't know.

Maybe he would, you know, he might have been in that thing somewhere, yeah.

Through his locker.

One point is that we don't want to get into it, you know, I don't know what Ron does, but you ought to get out that thing, you know, where the idea of the wall not being repeated, you know, the fact that he was, remember, the facts on that.

That should be something that ought to come from somebody outside of that thing, though.

Well, of course, the point is, you remember we put out a statement in 62 that we scouted.

We might even refer to that.

But I don't know.

He only does the poll.

I've asked it all.

So that was actually 10 years ago.

And here it is.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Maybe you might find it.

But maybe you can't find it.

Maybe it isn't around.

Well, I know Rosa's got it.

I'm sure she's got the whole thing.

Yeah.

It shows you there's people.

It's a mystery story, and it's fascinating that, you know, here's this man locked up in an hotel in Paradise Island, and now they're saying that his beard has grown down to his waist, and he's let his fingernails grow six inches long or something.

And I'm sure it probably isn't true, but it makes, you know, it's all this... Uncle Steve Green or whatever it was with their money.

Yeah.

He just said he had nothing to say.

Well, I'm really not afraid of that.

That was him.

I think if there was somebody outside, that was him.

yeah we ought to go on i shouldn't say that it's like at least it's very good it is building

I don't think it's making any new story.

That's where he has to do it.

Maybe that's one client, I don't think so.

Rather than having a press secretary, a client was there through all of it.

Was Ron, well, Ron was there in 62.

Well, yeah, I can look it up.

I think my number is...

I don't want to put out the mirror.

That's the problem.

Oh, it's got plenty to go, plenty to go to, you know, if the water doesn't make a big thing out of it.

Just make the point that you just don't get asked.

You just say, well, you know, that's, he's the old-timer.

He's got the ending.

We've got to be around him a long time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ron's too young to come out and say that's an old story.

He doesn't know the rest of it very well.

He could say I was under therapy.

Completely answered down the narrative.

With almost pain.

Almost satisfied, really.

Satisfied by the answer.

Yeah, that's my point.

I just want it to rise.

Well, the other thing is that you've got to know what's the danger of detonation.

Same old thing here.

We had 60, 32, and, oh, 50.

It's crushed.

It's crushed, yes.

It's really lost to everybody.

Yeah.

I didn't want to say that.

I think you're right.

You don't want to have it onto us.

We've got to revert back to something many years ago and sit down with your son.

They revert back as opposed to when they picked it up out of the, you know, just a book on a book.

Yeah, and then it said, then he referred back to the group here.

Yeah.

Story in 16, 59, that the bus had.

That, uh, you know, they carried that part of it so he could go back.

And I bet he said, sure, that's the way he ended your bus in 62.

Yeah.

And then it was, there was a contentment major in 2006.

Right.

It was totally, completely accurate.

The whole process was very, very good.

And he got 19 yards.

I don't know.

and realized that some of what he said was going to cost him a lot of money, which it will because he convinced us and he screwed some guy out of a patent on a drill and a lot of stuff like that.

And, you know, he's still got some big lawsuits pending, and this is where one of the fact goes.

There was, however, the thing where you asked about Deidre.

He was, that's right, two years ago.

And what happened to his book?

I don't, maybe this is it.

No.

Oh, I see.

Sorry about that.

No, because he was focused on screw news as well.

Well, that's the way it does, I guess.

Maybe that's it.

Maybe this is a...

see the white people and the mcgraw people who own the rights

are absolutely convinced that he was dead.

I can call Shepley and find Jim Jensen of us and watch the negotiations.

Of course, now it doesn't matter whether you wrote it or not.

The goddamn thing has been so built up now that all I have to do is put it back on and I'll have to stack it up.

It'll be on the other side of the track.

It's really catching on.

Very well written.

Eleanor Harkin.

Eleanor Harkin, yeah.

Which, as they say, is a hell of a good book.

Apparently, it's very well written and a fascinating story.

And it's kind of...

in the right framework in time because there are a lot of people still that remember him to read the book, but also he's a then figure.

And, you know, I'm going to let the lunch go again, sorry, but it was the next year, and I didn't know that it was the next year, and I didn't know that it was the next year, and I didn't know that it was the next year,

It's all, it's unbelievable that I actually have six kids.

Being a listener, you know, it's an unbelievable thing to me to be able to have six kids, but how do you study?

It's a remarkable story, though.

It really is a fascinating story.

Did you read it?

No, but I've read the book.

I've read the book, but I've read the synopsis.

It's a great story.

Apparently he was wanting to marry a lovely woman, or something like that.

I mean, a lot of those are long gone.

Well, there is, it was determined that they were going to end their own lives.

I remember there was a strange story about their marriage to begin with.

I mean, before they were married, the leading end of the marriage ended.

That's been alluded to.

Another question.

I'm curious.

I came up with all the stories.

I'm not going to say I'm a fraud, but I was such a dummy.

I really love stories.

I don't know if I was involved in a crime story.

I love stories.

All I came up with at that time was all words.

It had all the kids in it.

Oh, yeah.

This is the piece.

That was that.

Oh, sure.

That was that.

Right, right.

That was right.

Okay.

So you see, after he left, 20 provides for his life.

Right.

And he had, this happened before he ran for president, after he became a secretary.

He was a secretary for many, many years.

And then he lasted forever.

And then, of course, he shot them.

They made the thing.

The only real thing with this over the years, up until a couple years ago, was the fact that she was there the day he died.

Was it March?

Yeah.

Was it March 9th?

She was at March 9th.

And they made it sort of a mystery kind of thing.

There was a lot at that point.

She even married him that time.

But she commissioned a portrait that was being painted by that, it wasn't Schumann's daughter, someone was doing the portrait.

at the time he died, and Lucy was there while he was sitting.

It is, it's a fascinating, you know, it's some of those stories, the Lincoln story with his wife, the Roosevelt story with his wife.

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

It's sort of a fascinating story.

I wonder if anybody will ever write the Kennedy story.

I don't think that my story comes out.

This one, of course, is being written as a

as really a tragedy rather than as sympathetic.

Yeah, that's what we usually call it.

Rather than as sympathetic in the way of being made bad.

Well, according to Bill, all that Joe and Eleanor had a thing going on.

Well, that's our real answers.

I think he was a queer.

I don't know if that's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah, I fully understand that.

the whole thing.

I said, Johnny, they won't be hurt for this reason.

There was no other woman.

There were women.

And I think that that makes a very, very difference.

Yeah.

That's right.

There was no intention of hurting, but there was no blow or anything like that.

There was no other man either.

It's kind of like the witches of the early 19th century.

I mean, they just ran around, they all ran around pretty well.

I mean, it was possible, provided they didn't have a divorce, because they didn't have a divorce, they were ruined.

And that's the difference.

But he was very aggressive, you know.

Oh, I'm sorry.

He's a weird enough guy that it's got elements of all kinds of white anguillage that I can't say if I've been made of.

It's true by Mitchell.

But according to the person he is, I don't know what he's talking about.

did it on a personal basis you know they're good very good personal friends it wasn't uh wasn't funny i'll tell you what the story was planning didn't call bucky bucky called planning wanting to get uh cory pointed to something

And they got into a Buckley, intellectual type exchange on that.

I'm not sure if he was back in the day.

But there was, there was a letter that explained that.

And I don't know that I got a chance to know that.

But the point of my story, I think, is that Mitchell must be the man that, you know, even if the planning things are, are Buchanan's or anybody else's best friend, we've got to know, because he's got these names, he's fighting with these guys.

I don't know if he's fighting with the popular people.

And he's pretending that he may not be with the other.

But I don't think he's really the official...

Well, I don't understand.

I'm not really impressed.

Now, there was a lot of exchange of money.

Buckley entered with a letter, Fleming entered back with a letter, both.

And Buckley sent copies of his letter to the AG and to me, and he gave me copies.

And Fleming, for the last couple of nights,

I need my mind clear

I read the board policy stuff, and I read the domestic stuff, and I say about the battle, I don't know much about it.

I have to see what Muskie said about it, what he said about this and that, and the other thing.

And I just think, too, also there's a tendency for the New Somers inevitably to...

No matter how they're registered, and they strike, and they go this and that, and they go up and down.

It's really the best thing I've ever seen.

And there's nothing I can do about it.

But the main point is there's nothing I can do about it.

I didn't get shot.

I don't think it is.

What it points out is the weakness of the networks.

Because the networks don't cover very much.

And then you start to think about it in Washington.

You know, in the other game, maybe you've got a place where you can travel.

As a matter of fact, what was the way you were covered, you know?

You knew she supported all of them, and then she gave you a point, and that's how you were covered.

Yep.

You know what you need to do first?

Yes, really, is develop a job.

You've got to look at it as we do, but the right kind of analysis, that's one of the things, like the Bobbitts-Rogers study, that's just good.

It plays up the wire surface stuff.

Maybe it's the wire surface.

that don't get played.

In other words, they look for things that are of interest to us, and sometimes there are things on the wire, like something that some senator says or something, that never get printed anymore, that we'll want to mark another time.

There is something.

But the other side of that is, it's terribly important to look at that, because otherwise you're limited only to what the Post and the Star and the Times have got to offer.

And you missed what the Omaha World-Herald picked up.

And the only way you're going to get that is to look at the wire show.

That's what it is.

You have to agree with the guys that call the Los Angeles Times.

They call somebody who says, what?

Well, they do.

They go through 50 and 50.

Not on an everyday basis, but they check the stories.

They watch, they go through not just the L.A. Times, the Chicago Tribune, those they can cover regularly, the major papers.

But then they also cover a whole bunch of papers on the same point.

And then you have the objections being raised to much cholera in John Kerry.

I think it's inevitable.

I think it's jealousy.

There's no way around that.

The first part is about balance.

It takes more of them to do a show or not, but I've been balanced with regard to the press.

This criteria are unchallengeable on the basis of who gets to .

They can make the case that there's an overweighting to them, but the point is that .

That's it.

On the basis of audience, it's not overweighted .

If you were taking any legal law, and you were going to weigh it according to the audience's reach, 75 of them ought to be from the network, and 5 of them from the press, right?

— 25 min 31 s with no transcribed speech —

decide how you want it or how we want to handle the standards.

The word is so well out now that we probably should go ahead and make the announcement.

idea that he wants to toss into the announcement about setting up a new cabinet council on jobs or something.

And Irvington and Schultz are opposed to that.

They ought to start a lot.

His rationale, which you've got to be aware of, is that people are saying to him when they read these rumors, why the hell would you want to be Secretary of Congress?

Which is, uh, what's your plan?

Well, there's an opportunity to do something out of Congress if you go out of it, right?

That'll do us good.

I mean, he rushed there.

He said that it was great.

We can go out there with jobs and have a good time.

Incidentally, it's delighted that Peter's just coming into this, because he said, now, he and I, we can go into this jobs thing for a chance.

I can never get through to him.

He never understood what I was talking about.

Peter just looked.

Well, plus the fact that you got a good chance of the reorganization coming in.

the thing they know on that story.

On the other, on the replacement for Peterson, on it, he talked to Henry and Connolly primarily because he wanted to be sure, you know, they wanted him to do this and that was all understood.

And Connolly

is concerned about the question of, you know, any involvement of monetary policy in that area, obviously.

And he's concerned about the exclusion of monetary policy.

Absolutely.

He understands that.

He has no argument with Tommy.

The argument he makes there is the same one that both Tommy and...

What plans do you have as a tool to come?

In fact, he provides a way for Treasury to control it and for them to have an operation, which is something he has said he needs in the White House, to ride dirt on the other departments for him.

I think that Ken Peterson is not the best person to respond to because he's so direct about this.

There's not two streets.

You just have to settle it.

You just say, look here, this is the way to do it.

You don't have to go there.

You've got to keep him out of this.

It's fine.

I think if you sit down and you consider the main thing is that money is a problem.

It must be in control.

We've got to get the state out of control.

There is a device, we're sure about what we can do.

And here is a manual that you can use.

If you stay in the office, it's the way to keep the ears on.

You've got to keep the ears on.

What I get to make a comment here today, and if I do, I get to do it, and I'll say, I hear everybody cheating because we want to control it.

See, Gunn has talked about that.

He's wanted kids to hear it, but in history, he's wrong.

In that, kids hear it.

It's the blacks who want to control it, typically.

And he can use playing.

The way for him to look at it is that he uses learning as a device.

And Pete's perfectly willing.

Pete.

There's no philosophical dispute.

He thinks Treasury should be on top of it.

He makes the point that the policy there is set by the Voter Committee anyway, as it should be.

And that his thing could be a device for implementing what I have now.

Well, we ought to do it today or tomorrow, I think.

But I think we ought to have announced Lannigan at the same time we announced Peterson.

We ought to make a three-way move, otherwise you're going to leave a gap there on what's going to happen on that economic policy council that will look like it's being downgraded, that it's been built elsewhere.

He's got a real problem that doesn't relate to this, which is a very valid one, which is that Peterson is turning over to him a sound here that looks like a silk purse,

By the luck of the draw, the thing has come out to look like a hell of an effective organism because of all the things that have happened.

It had nothing to do with it, but it looks like it did.

Well, then he's got a hand in it.

And then his unique trader concept, you know, was the thing that started the business and all that.

And that's fine.

A lot of people think so.

It gives you credit.

We're doing it, but the problem is, in the process, he has a lousy staff and a lousy operation.

And Jonathan wants to come in as an inside guy, except he doesn't want to be a spokesman like Peterson.

And he's got, you know, here's the problem.

If you pick up something that looks bad that really is good, you can make a lot of hate out of it.

If you pick up something that's

Now, if we can't get all this work done,

I don't know why we can't.

That's already leaked so much that, you know, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Fans told people over at Congress sometimes that, when you tell the department, and he was right to tell them.

So at least then it gets out.

The other way around it, if we can't get an analysis, you could still make the

The first, you know, they have a farewell at the stands and just say, this is just in the family.

I said, no, we're not going to answer.

I would have to get Conley in first.

It's not that he wrote it.

Oh, yes.

Yes, sir.

Tell you what I'd like to do.

I don't deserve Conley Nelson.

The purpose of this is to put him in charge of this thing.

and the whole monetary thing.

It appears that Flanagan totally understands that the problem is being charged under the monetary, but international, you know, economic trade policies and the rest, that Flanagan will need a strong right arm in the White House, not with the protagons.

Antagons.

And if you could bring it up that way, if you could get it up that way, it might be a very helpful way to end the work.

If you want to talk to him, I think it's better to do it that way.

If you don't want to talk to him, then I'll do it that way.

I will.

Two-step thing on this side.

All right.

We'll see if there's a problem.

What do you see?

12 today, or two, or three, or eight.

You can't do it this morning.

All right.

I'm afraid not.

Right on.

But then we really have not too much.

We're going to indicate you're continuing your work on this and budget matters.

I may get a question this morning about the Anderson Papers.

Again, he ran that.

I talked to Al Haig about this.

I think we can get this totally out of the way.

Baseball asks, well, isn't the president concerned about it?

Simply by saying, look, it's obvious that when matters of this sort become available, the president is concerned about it.

That's all I'm going to say.

We're not going to discuss any investigations, as we have already made clear.

But as of this point, we have not expressed concern about this.

And I think some people are reading into that.

the fact that we haven't said the concern about the leak wow we have not said uh on any occasion

but why don't you just say it in 93 words?

Right, and then where it could be.

Obviously, this is the direction, and it's the right direction.

We're going to be frank with you.

We're a member of the Press as well.

The Press, we...

An investigation is seriously under way.

And that we are going to have to attend to.

I hear it.

If you want to read it and say, you can make the, you can say, who is this and that, and say, well, there's a lot of, there's certain kinds of evidence, but the main witness, the only appropriate witness, unfortunately, is the man in the publishing material.

And this is all very recommended for the members of the press.

We're not going to do that.

That's good.

yeah i'm inclined to think that i don't want to hypo this story anymore but i don't want it to hypo on the other side by having not expressed concern and i would only raise this if they asked me

The President considers it important.

If they get into anything on Kissinger, which I don't think they will, I'm going to say that's all been covered.

This person obviously stands behind this.

Yes, I'd say that very strongly.

He has total confidence in his politics.

And as several of you ladies and gentlemen have pointed out in your comments,

There's a whole book that describes him in a variety of positions of the administration.

And you add to that this is not a verse, but rather a graphic of descriptions of him in general.

And the discussions he gives, the kind of discussions that are encouraged by all of us, will be very rigorously discussed by his supporters.

And he's going to continue to have that.

He's not going to allow for this kind of belief.

It's supposed to have been before.

He's going to be telling me something about it.

It's not going to go on.

This kind of disclosure, and the disclosure of my knowledge, is going to be very, very important to allow the administration for a very long time, to allow this to lead to less disdain for the researchers trying to sling, and less reservation of all their belongings, options to them.

He feels that the most serious commitment to other serious aspects of the Republican leadership, the Republican party, the most serious aspect of the president's view is that in the name of this president and any of the other presidents, that we have to deny

the most bold, honest kind of advice that you can get from this.

There must be a plan rather than courage that hasn't created that.

All options get created automatically.

There are layers of things that go on.

In this case, we're solving that difficult problem.

But that's all.

And I mean, so far as the position, it's not a burden to me.

Some of you have been very objective members of this press corps and pointed out their problems.

And you've said so many of them.

And I vote against them.

Thank you.

There should be no question about it.

I was standing in this booth and I saw this lady that I was meeting very rapidly, and I thought he was getting on.

I'm going to leave that to Klein.

I will back off of it, but I'll try not to.

Only other thing, and I raise it because Mrs. Nixon called John about it, wanted some guidance from me, on this Irving book on the Hughes, you know, autobiography, where they suggest Clifford was involved in that.

Brilliant.

who called me and suggested that I develop a line.

My feeling is that that's 14 years old, and that has been discussed thoroughly, and that we do not even begin to address the question of whether or not there are any racists in this law.

Don't you agree?

Well, we were just talking about that, but we need to leave the record.

You can't do anything at a regular time on a charged stand-in.

See, the charge is false.

We answered it as you recall in 62.

At the point, the loan was never repaid.

The stock was then transferred to East, which was worth more than the amount of the loan, and therefore satisfied the loan.

That's the point.

They say this is all, excuse me, they say this is all, this is a very, very old story, and that, I don't know, well, that's not my voice.

And if you say, if you get into it with me, whether it was my son or his family, that was an old statement made at that time.

Then you asked for the statement from you.

I think it's better, let us try to get the statement out first, and then you ought to settle off for now, and then soon give the statement out.

But I've got to look relaxed.

You've got to look relaxed.

I don't want to snowball it in a way that looks like we're uptight.

I think, as you suggest, look, that's an old story.

It's disgusting.

There have been total statements issued on that, and I have absolutely nothing more to say about it.

14 years.

That's it, put to rest.

I thought we could do it.

We could get out the 62 statement, let Klein cover that on the basis, you know, he was the press secretary then.

He said he was around at 60 when the thing was being kicked around in that campaign.

He could say, gee, don't you guys get tired of dreading that old, same old dead story?

I don't think they're going to do that.

I don't think you'll ask about it.

I just want to be ready.

And I want to tell Mrs. Nixon and Connie Stewart, Mrs. Nixon, that I think it's a hurt position to discuss this.

Well, they're not.

I guess she's concerned that this may be asked.

I think her intention was making the point that Mrs. Nixon, your mother, Hannah Nixon,

did repay the loan.

That was the point she made.

But I don't think she should get into it.

Right.

My advice to him is that the book doesn't work at all.

Well, we don't know that it doesn't.

We haven't seen it in a while.

All we've got is the fact that it says it was a lot better.

There's anything more than that.

I think this surgeon may be a phony.

No.

Did you watch him?

I watched him on the .

He's the author.

But you can tell when the guy's speaking from confidence, or if he's putting on the image of speaking from confidence.

And this was .

He theoretically met this guy in hotels and things like that.

But he's kind of a... Irving, in watching Wallace with him last night, was... had that characteristic about him.

He was a very relaxed man.

I think that's about it.

I won't say anything about the Allende disease.

In Chile, Ghana bleed the same.

Well, not in relation to this.

It's just are we going to recognize them.

That's a state matter.

The Italian newspapers are carrying reports that the president will visit Poland on his return from Moscow.

I'm going to close that up.

while still maintaining flexibility.

I'm going to say there's no plan with respect to going to Poland.

I mean, I go there right after Moscow.

Just so you know.

Right.

Okay.

I just understand you've got some of these because you're putting so many television people on the grid.

That's a great idea.

Well, I'm going to go with Scallion.

In terms of the amount of audience that we should go out and take, I would anticipate a man of 85 television people.

And the thing, I've got Scallion and Tim Lopark.

We're going to go up to New York and meet with the TV people, but if they build on this, I'm just going to say now the question is, television show business or television news, you people are going to have to make your own determination.

You wrote it right in both ways.

On one hand, you say television has a dramatic impact in terms of communicating the news.

You say if you're on columns and how general premise of your story, you're saying it's children.

What is it?

You make that decision.

The television, news media, requested of the administration to cover a very historic event.

Well, and also, you're going to find out how to cover that now.

Oh, substantially, yes.

And I'm going to have the television network support that.

Interesting thing, though.

the chinese we have a thing in here this morning have expressed interest and they raised us when we were there purchasing an rca ground station for canada no which shows that the chinese are intrigued with television too probably more so than well in fact there was no way

There's going to be heat on this, but we have a very defensible parents who are out there

I'm telling you, we've got them now.

They've come slithering up to my office by the time of...

I just want to know, sir, and I'm not going to know, and I'm going to let them just come, because it just shows the character of them.

You know, the hard-bitten, tough guys out there for a while, who I know are, you know, their organization is on the list.

They're really coming around.

I'm just going to let them do it for a while, and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it.

here at MIT, I'm here right now.

I'll take you to the stage where you can very seriously study them.

And I'm going to take you actually to the study room.

And I'm just going to do this thing.

I'm going to talk with our pilot for a little while, and then I'm going to sort of, like, speculate along.

They are asking if you're going to have a vote for domestic and foreign policy.

I think that would be soon.

I would say that the foreign policy report that you've allowed for me, that the foreign policy report that you've allowed for me, that the foreign policy report that you've allowed for me,

Very good.

I think that's about it.

Not a lot of it.

It's coming from some of the organizations.

I've got the letter from the head of the Associated Press.

If you're not a press member, they'd like you to be a press member.

Not a TV press member, but a press member.

That's what you're going to get.

You're going to get five.

You're going to get something worth a lot.

The rabbit thing, I think they all are very...

They have a number shortage of that.

I haven't quite forgotten that you had a permit doctor response time to your State of the Union.

I saw it.

Thank you.

So that was the last time we had a med school do it.

We agreed with you on everything, so this time they're going to apparently have a med school in Algarve or something and have people around the country phone me and question about the State of the Union and they're going to answer.

No, they can't.

If you do it here, you walk out the pressure room, there's no deer.

If you do it here, in the office, it should be fulfilled.

But if you walk out the pressure room,

There's no way that they can, as I understand it, where they can provide it.

There, I think there's a question.

Why?

Full, full running, which they could do.

They don't have our air and live.

Well, that could open and open across your ashtray.

Well, I don't have one.

So we'll put them on track.

And let the network say, we won't carry the president's press traffic slide on the TV.

Let's see what happens.

The network should do that.

They're going to carry it.

I think so.

They will.

Okay.

Hang on, I'll call you all.

I'll just call it a day.

Yes, sir.

Uh, I just wondered if you would be available to meet at any time from 2 on this afternoon?

What is your convenience, sir?

Okay, very good.

.

Have you been to the square root of the sapphire and seen out what you want to banter?

You've got to banter.

We've got to banter.

.

He's a writer over there.

or or or or or or or or

See, you've got to take time off, even if it's for a long time.

And just before that, go and do the budget sign, because it goes up on you.

That's all.

It's not a good word for us, but it has to be done.

You don't have to press any more.

Well, fine.

I agree to that.

You said that the staff didn't want to get a picture?

Yes, I said that.

Thanks to the general public's help, that's all I had.

But the weather was not a good story.

I'm not sure how they even put it out, the picture.

They just stick it to the people that are there.

Okay, that's very good of them.

I remember my idea of one picture a day.

It was all kind of good.

I said, you don't want to get into it.

I had a good talk with Sapphire this morning.

I think I've also seen the notes you've made and I think I think we can squeeze out some of the detail and leave it for the briefing because I think your instinct is right.

The one place where we need detail, Mr. President, if you agree, is in the proposal we are making, and here's why.

I think it would be best if we didn't have to release the text until I brief on it the next day.

If you're prepared to release the text that night,

then you can squeeze it down in what you say.

What worries me is if you release the text, they're going to start nitpicking the text right after you get on.

And then I'd have to read that night, which wouldn't be good.

I think that night your speech should be featured and I shouldn't read until the next day with the technical stuff.

No, I want the text of the speech to rise that night, and the text of the proposal to rise to help that night.

I don't want to put too much of that stuff in the speech because it's maybe too hard for me.

Well, let's see if we can do it, Mr. President.

Well, let's see how it reads.

I've asked, I've urged him to put in, I agree with you completely that in the previous hymn, when we talk about May 31st, July 12th, July 26th, there he can squeeze out all the poems.

You don't want to cover every point of every proposal.

It's just of our last proposal that we ought to see whether we can put in enough.

But if word comes to word, we can say they'll release it tomorrow.

There's no crime in that.

Then they'll have to wait.

I need to have Patterman get on right after you've been on.

Yeah.

And tear the proposal apart.

Yeah.

Well, then, how do you conclude that?

I mean, here's part of the proposal.

And here's part of it.

The point is, I mean, he'll tear it apart if I include that too much.

Yeah.

I think it's better not to include some of these.

And Phil Holt could do the next step.

Well, that's very funny because I don't want to see any proposal before you do that.

And then that might be a good way to put that a little bit of something.

He said, well, perhaps there may be more here.

I don't know.

But we'll have to release the text fairly soon after this speech.

Right, something will happen.

Yes, but you may be, this may be right.

If we don't release it, then if they...

Because the proposal is a very subtle one, which we are now tying down with Jews, which in effect saves prisoners for withdrawal in the first phase, and now even the ceasefire is in the second phase of this now.

Prisoners will withdraw in six months.

And then election ceasefire and everything else in the next phase, which can run concurrently, but which, if we can't get it concurrently, can start later.

I'm positive, because I wrote the proposal.

And I rejected it in that last proposal.

Slightly.

But that's what's the complication is to explain the two phases.

That I cannot do that?

No.

That you cannot do.

That really is too complicated.

That's right.

I wonder if there is a challenge to do it right.

Let's see what he comes up with.

What I'm getting at is right here.

Yeah, he's already been talked to, I think, by Rose.

Or you, I don't know whether you talked to him.

I don't see it.

Do you want to wait for Wednesday night?

Tuesday?

Oh, Wednesday.

For Wednesday night, there are two problems.

There's a press club dinner, which they have to... And secondly, you'd get a North Vietnamese reaction before you'd have your story out.

Well, it will make him up, because if you speak on Tuesday night, they won't really get it until Wednesday morning.

They can't respond until they get instructions from Hanoi.

And I don't think they'll be able to respond before Thursday.

But he thought it was

It was a terrific experience.

It's beyond that.

This is a dramatic thing.

Tremendous impact.

It provides hope, et cetera, with regard to the war, the prisoners.

Well, I think it shows that we are positive, it shows we have a program, and... Well, it gets on once again.

Well, as you may have said, we should be happy.

I mean, after... We need to go back to that piece proposal locked over the 11th.

I think so.

I think we forgot what we ever made of it.

I saw Muskie on television yesterday.

He said we would have offered a withdrawal for a deadline last year already.

So what does this mean?

What does that mean?

We did it.

What's he going to say now?

He did what he said he would have done.

So where is he now?

Now he's going to have to go back and say, well, I haven't done more than that.

Or else he's going to have to say, well, he did just the right thing.

We didn't do anything.

Well, we did later.

Later.

The first thing we did is we agreed to a deadline, provided they would agree to a withdrawal.

I said, if you tell me that you will release the prisoners and you will have the peace fire, I will give you a deadline.

And that the deadline will be the first item on the agenda and nothing else will be discussed.

That's like giving them a deadline.

And they turned it down.

Then we gave them a deadline.

And then they gave us a deadline.

Then we gave them a deadline anyway.

In August.

Yeah.

And then we gave them a shorter one in October.

Seven months one in October.

Seven and six now.

and i will take the position in my speech this is a proposal it is fair i agree it is i wouldn't say it's been turned down

well i'd say you've had two months they've had two months to study it now it's time for them to respond

How's the air force doing?

Well, I think it's doing pretty well now on the trails.

One has to talk on the assumption that the airport is no good, right?

And that we just shouldn't...

They are inflicting

According to our indications, some very heavy casualties in Laos.

Yeah, that's what I mean in northern Laos.

But they're doing fairly well on the trails because of the center system we now have.

And, uh...

They are inflicting a fair amount of casualties in the north.

The major thing...

The major thing the president in the north is to gain time.

We can get through this dry season.

I mean, they still have to take Long Kien completely.

Well, let's not act in South Vietnam for a moment.

What about that?

Long Kien, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

...discouraged regarding the ability of morale of the South Vietnamese.

I guess, if we sell it, we haven't any service except for tops and hats and furhels.

We're the goddamned Jews.

While those sons of bitches have a vested interest, the clothing an American sent back is not to be believed.

It is, of course, a murderous problem for the South Vietnamese.

Here are 500,000 Americans, and when they rely on getting out, much of our air force is getting out.

uh and cut them out that but even then on the other hand so uh no you can sit i think but but it's uh it's

is the South Vietnamese slide in the highlands.

The North Vietnamese slide in the highlands.

Thank you.

I'm going to fire you.

Get out.

Some of the scientists are trying to refute the issue by making such and such, but they inevitably stir up the idea of what you're going to be, what you are, and what you are not.

You're going to be what you are.

Yeah.

.

I don't know how to answer that question.

I don't know how to answer it.

I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't,

and his great, great success in battle.

For just like he might be, Captain Charlie, Charlie, brother,

and most of those are his papers.

I've learned to read them all, so I'll listen to what he says.

um and

I think the Chinese have been a sucker that's

Thank you, fellas.

He's a real friend.

because there were other people that were guests there apparently, and Janice kind of laughed and said, you know, we should think about it.

She said, Janice, or whatever it is at school, told me.

And Janice, or whoever it was at school, turns out her father is a Mormon who was in the Indian embassy with this woman at that time.

but uh this is the point is this guy has told his family and his daughter has seen fit to say

at the 10-year or 12-year-old level.

And then Jody brought it up at the dinner table.

Of course, John laughed and said, well, you know, we didn't really get that money.

We wouldn't be transferring it to Seattle.

And kind of brushed it off.

But the point is, there's the range of people who know.

Well, first of all, they all understand the transfer because it's all the papers.

He was transferred to Memphis, wasn't he?

No.

That's the interesting thing.

That was the plan originally, and then...

It was, yeah, in Oregon.

He went to, yeah, it was... That's where he wanted to go.

He went to the northwest instead of the midwest.

I could understand.

Well, it was his choice.

I think so, yeah.

Yeah, they gave him two options.

That puts him in the robins, is the truth, I think, doesn't it?

Well, I don't think I'm going to take care of him anyway.

Well, we may have to forget about our attempt to cover up for the junkies and move.

If it comes out, I think you just got to...

The only way to come out of this is that he's got to confess.

Because we have no case against him right now.

We cannot prove it.

Because we have no witness.

The only witness is Anderson.

See, that's the thing.

This is a perfect service actual case.

And we know that he did it.

We know that he did it because nobody else could have done it.

He did it for that kind of stupid man who broke the law.

He's got to be a witness.

We've got witnesses that he took the papers.

Now, I know the hell we have to find the witnesses that he came in.

That's right.

Most people have forgotten about the papers.

I mean, what I've had is, everybody does that around here, they take papers off, they violate the security regulations.

The question is, the disclosure that we believe is wrong, and we cannot prove that.

That's our case, and so we've got to stay absolutely firm.

We can't prove it.

I don't think, I don't think a man's home version of that.

I know he wants to, but he couldn't say it.

Police is bad, but we don't think so.

Well, they do.

I think that's a show of it.

But, yes, it may.

I don't, I don't, I don't even think all of it.

Sure, it may come up, so I don't believe it.

It will come up, and this guy decides to be an officer.

And here, in this case, he will be.

But I understand that we have no indication of that at this point, do we?

I mean, can't see any, well, God could have a conscious idea some more than all our church members.

Well, we have a perfect record of that respect.

There's a question, I mean, and I...

And we're doing a responsible thing.

We have a case against what we're taking under close observation, and we're removing it because I don't think there's a sensitivity and violation of security regulations.

We also removed the cabinet.

Yeah.

Yeah, well.

Yeah, no, I closed the office.

Well, here they moved all outside offices that were under our control.

almost to me, almost to him.

Caused him to believe that I didn't kill him.

First, I've been that smart.

Second, could have done it for that reason.

He does not believe me.

But we should have been together.

He is a smart guy.

I don't think any of us could have done it better.

I think that on top of this, there is some other background going on on top of it that turns the significance of these.

Well, that's true.

That's true.

I mean, that is interesting.

Speaking of this, the background, we can tell that it goes on, and it's been hanging with us, but that's still, it's not going away from the back.

If you're pretty clear, it is.

It's a bunch of stuff.

Cardinal stuff, bring it on.

Very hard.

It shows you what the pentagon paper is.

The pentagon paper is named.

And the press, what really is running, we could demolish this in a number of ways.

One, the Washington Special Action Group is not a policy-making group.

It's an action group.

The difficult procedure in a crisis is, for example, during the Jordan crisis, that you meet with the NFC in the morning.

and then the action group implement what you decide.

Right.

Second, a number of the things that you said, such as sneaking planes into Pakistan through Jordan, it's true we did it, but not through the action group.

is totally wrong and misleading.

We did offer a timetable to the Indians, but we didn't tell Keating because we didn't want them to blab.

So a lot of the facts where we are accused of lies or of trickiness, we could defend ourselves, but it would be

everyone's judgment was and i think it's probably right that i shouldn't defend myself so i never i haven't answered any of these things

to get back to the bureaucracy, the same.

The attack, it will really be fundamentally on you and not on me, as subterfuge is.

And I'm afraid that there are going to be some massive seats during this election.

That is what worries me.

Because there's now no, no bar to it anymore.

Anderson, who is a scum, has become a hero.

He's moved to the editorial page as a result, and he's a hero.

The papers print anything.

One way of handling it.

So they can't believe it.

Tell the bureaucracy.

Oh, yeah.

One way of handling it.

I'm not saying it hasn't any other, but the one I know hasn't really anything significant yet.

And every year, what it means on anything was to avoid knowledge.

Take the court thing, for example.

Well, that was the only way that many people were out here, right?

They had to admit to it, right?

Okay, good back to you.

Oh, wait, thanks a lot, Mark.

Michelle was just asking, and I guess, I don't know whether you concur, but that you've taken a couple minutes to thank Ingersoll for accepting the Japan post.

Are you meeting with Ingersoll now?

Yeah, he's waiting for me.

Has he accepted it?

Yes.

Court of Laws, I'm breaking in.

They want me to do it.

Is that just my inquiry?

Yeah.

Well, he was just coming in to see me.

He wanted to be with us and he could have that access to us.

All right, you go parallel properly now.

You're gonna see right now.

Yes.

And bring him right in here.

I'll wait and follow.

You take 15 minutes with him.

Yeah, you take yours.

Let George come in too.

George, hey, hey.

Let him come in too.

Do you have any cards?

Bill called me home yesterday.

He had not changed his mind.

Yeah, in a sense.

He received what he calls a peremptory memo from Henry, which I haven't seen.

I suppose I'm getting a copy of it.

That, uh, all of Henry's memos are copied peremptorily.

Well, he is apparently based on that.

He says that, uh,

that Henry's view was that all this did was reflect the understanding as to what we were going to do, how it was going to work, and that Bill advised ahead of time on any means he was going to have as to the objective and the talking points on anything related to Russians in the East and the Chinese, which is what Bill agreed to in a meeting with John.

But Henry, by sending the note, all he has got is to stand her up again.

And Bill's point here is, he says, I have orders from the President.

He says, I don't take this note from Henry.

The theory here is that the President has announced his policy.

The State Department carries it out.

The NSC is not supposed to be an operation.

It's supposed to be a policy group.

He says, I don't mind checking with Henry, and Henry checks with me, but I am not going to take this instruction and notify Henry of what I'm doing.

I don't work for Kissinger.

And he says, so I will not do anything.

I'm not going to ignore this.

And so I talked to the person.

And, uh, that's the problem.

We should be setting up a plan for something around there.

He says on the meetings, for instance, uh, the NFC is not involved in the meetings.

They're supposed to be in op- they're not supposed to be in operations.

And I'm handling that.

We've been doing it for three years and it's worked very well.

And in answer to that, of course, it's the only reason it's worked well is because Sandy's been holding her beams in behind the scenes.

And we kept it glued together, which meant we were doing it.

And, uh,

than any appearances, but it is what we agreed on.

He doesn't say anything about the .

He'll let me know anything.

This is because Henry goes into the presidential complaints, he gets his way.

I don't go into the presidential complaints so I get left out.

He said, I'll be glad.

He said, you know, Henry and the president worked this out together.

There's no reason why I should be kept out of things.

I agree the state has to be kept out, but the problem I have is that the president always says to me in front of me, I want Bill to know everything.

And then Henry doesn't tell me.

He said, no, this Israeli stuff, Bill sent me a batch of stuff, and they've been meeting in the ravine and not telling him.

And he said, the president knows all about this issue of stuff.

He said, I have been listening to the president giving me my orders as to what I'm supposed to do.

Our policy in the Middle East has been good.

I will not have Henry second guessing all the time.

I will keep the President fully advised to keep him on suspicion.

But the meetings I've been having this week, that we've been having, were pursuant to a directive from the President.

But he says the problem here is Henry doesn't keep me advised of anything at all, what he's doing.

I don't know anything about the Russia or China trip, except about California the other day.

I don't know where he is right now.

Since I would disregard the instructions from Henry and I'm not working for Henry, the President says if he doesn't want me to know about Russia or something, then at least I know where I stand.

But when the President says I want Bill to know everything, then I expect to know everything without Henry screwing it up.

Now, my view is, well, but I think, I think we've got to fix it.

And I don't, but no one has to go like that.

One really critical issue is the ADE.

I have told Bill to keep working on the ADE, and I'm here for the ADE, because I try to keep Henry out of the ADE.

That's the thing, if you keep him playing your games, that's here.

Now, at the present time, I don't know,

I think you're just going to talk a little longer, that's all.

I think I'm probably meeting with Ravine.

There's a problem.

I think it's going to be Saturday.

I've met with Ravine this morning.

And he's just come from a meeting with State, or yesterday, in November of 1145, and Rodgers talked to me right after that meeting.

He didn't tell me that meeting had been held.

He still hasn't.

But, my point is, I was meeting Cisco in Ravine, a memorandum regarding negotiations, and told them,

here to do something about it, and they scheduled another meeting for today, for Monday, and the Israeli captain met yesterday about this memorandum.

We've never seen a memorandum.

So, Henry did say in the same conversation, I want you to understand that I reviewed this whole situation carefully, and I concluded that I can't leave because of the country and the President, I have to say.

You know, I wasn't sure.

Well, I had to go to, I think we got to, basically in the heart of the deal.

I started it.

Bill kept saying, well, I'll tell Henry, and Henry will tell me, and I kept saying, well, that should get to the show.

And so they backed me up too much, which is too bad.

Although he did look that Henry keeps the president in point, but it's better that he keep the president in point.

And it is a matter of whether Henry will tell you or you will tell Henry.

But Henry is a president, and he is not a department and operating a separate department.

The MSC is not a department of the government the way the State Department is.

It's a staff facility for the president.

And I went through all this stuff, you know, the whole year and made this very good question online, but there is a difference.

Now, Andrew's got another one where he's trying to get a study on the European Security Conference.

I mean, Rogers explained that he has exclusive jurisdiction.

He will not put it into the NSC because, as Henry says, it has to be because it's a negotiation that he could have done.

But Rogers won't give him anything.

So, yeah, we're rocking the security.

Yes.

But the problem there is he keeps going back, you know, don't give me that stuff.

I have my instructions.

I have my own secret.

He wants me to do this, you know, all the time.

I mean, all the other things.

I mean, that was just a year and a half ago when I told you.

You know, it's not even very scary there.

We discussed it in front of him.

You know, I haven't picked up anything.

He said he wanted to work on it.

Well, one basic policy, and this is a principle that Rogers operates on, which is, he goes back to the, when he first came into office, was, is that the NSC has nothing to do with operations.

It is supposed to be a policy body, but not an operating body.

Now, there was some rumbling of that theory in the early days, but it rapidly changed like about an hour after he got involved.

And he excluded us to pretend that, and I think that ought to be built into the budget.

It is not whether it operates.

And it's the intention of the President's both policy making and policy implementation.

And Senator Keith St. Wessig is totally not breaking the body.

It is the policy body at all.

He carries off the...

Well, my view is to talk to Mitchell about this, and I think on this one, if we've got to put it to Bill, to assert to him, and if we've got to make it a point to Bill, then he does have to keep you posted.

And if he keeps you posted, do you think he's going to be able to tell you otherwise?

Well, it's hard to do that.

He doesn't trust you to get it to me.

They, uh...

He just got realized that there has to be, there has to be a

I agree with you in principle.

I have a painting.

I don't know anything about it.

I haven't seen the memorandum, but it might be here if you want to get a memorandum that wasn't written to him.

I asked Rose for a copy of it, and she said no, that she was sitting up to give it to Charlie, and he didn't give me one, and I'm sure she would do the same thing with it.

I can't tell you what Sapphire was supposed to be doing, but that's fine.

But I don't think he would have given anything up.

Because I would guess Bill did.

Bill did.

I muscled quite a bit.

He did pretty good.

I kind of muscled.

Well, I think I'm not sure.

I think I'm not sure.

Well, on bill here, I still think that it could come.

There's sometimes a direct way to do these things.

Just tell the witness, and God hands it out to you.

God gave it all to him.

And he was going to confess anything.

All right, Mr. God, now that he did that, I have got to see everything that he's screwing around.

Now, I'm going to tell you what's got to really fix up for the fact of telling him about the Jews.

There's a political team here that we must not allow, we must not force our hand too hard at this point in time, you know what I mean?

Now that's got to be put real hard.

And Mitchell's got to put that in political terms, not getting the state totally out of the right and the wrong, the heirs and the wretches, because we're now a political leader and that means that we want to keep them.

We've got to avoid a confrontation with the Israeli government.

I know you want to do it indirectly.

I don't see how you can do it a little bit indirectly.

It just seems to me that John and I have got to say to him in a way that he understands what he is going to do.

His partner's got to be stopped putting out peremptory memos.

Yeah, that's got to stop.

But I have read some of his memorandums that come from down whenever I talk.

But he says, you know what I mean, he'll come in and just based on almost a centilo of the statement, he'll go out and write a goddamn peremptory memo.

He's putting it all on me.

That's what he did.

Apparently, from what Bill said, he said the person has ordered that.

or has directed that, all communications, that idea of the woman in Venice, of all communications and all that, which was his, or Charlie's, way of moving to what a rather subtle plane that Mitchell and I had set up that I think might have held together if he hadn't smashed it with a sledgehammer.

That's exactly what he did.

He smashed it with a sledgehammer.

He wanted to make Bill crawl.

That's what he was trying to do.

I think that must be it.

Because he was having to plow it, you know, build it right up.

But you have gotten to that, I call it, stated face.

And that's what he was doing.

He was making him crawl.

And his memoranda are always that way.

So I'm going to, you know, I may have had to send Barb myself.

Thank you.

uh... uh...

I would say that this was the, you have one of the best things.

So you've got to turn it.

And so it takes, oh, no, the money is so nice.

Oh, that's very gracious and so forth.

That's going to be a good enough job.

Thank you very much for, well, let me say, I didn't consider it.

No, no, we looked over it.

We decided it would be all right.

But, you know, it's an enormous important thing.

I wouldn't ask you, you wouldn't ask me to do it for, you know, the cosmetics or anything like that.

You don't want to spend your money on all the rest of that stuff.

But I, what I want you to know is that if you're a fashion designer, you can't do it for Belgium or Holland.

.

The earth is the earth, and the heavens are the heavens.

Well, I'm just delighted that you'll do it.

We appreciate you having come to this event.

He used to come to me when I was nine years old.

His dad, he was better than all of us.

I mean, his father used to come to us.

I used to speak at the Michael Center, you know.

His father was always up there, first of all.

He was like, he's a very strong guy.

But, you know, I'm surprised.

We weren't done in our time.

You know, I don't know if everybody else would be here, but he still did.

He still did.

.

Hey, how long?

How long before you get over there?

What about telling my board and then talking to them?

... ... ... ... ...

Tokyo was a man's town.

Well, I don't know.

I think Bill's been, you know, for a small time, this is a lot of boys.

This is not their, I mean, it's a little better than anything he's done.

He's been given reasons to.

And he has, and that's the problem with this all the way through.

He comes in one way or another, and he's been upset about that thing.

What, what happened to that?

Did you ever talk with, you and, uh, what happened?

Did you ever mention why they didn't talk with him?

He said, it's all worked out, and Henry, the changes go out.

Did you talk to him some time around?

No, sir.

Good, uh, no, no, no, I didn't ask you about that, but I knew you were going to talk to him.

He told me after the fact, you know, just before Rogers called me about ending up, he said, he said, I've, I've, he called it a directive.

He said, I sent Rogers a directive that reflects our understanding.

And I've now told them that all communications have to be clear.

I said, gee, did you say have to be clear?

He said, well, yeah, I, you know, that we have to have advanced knowledge on it.

And he said, I don't feel backed up to direct it.

And I said, well, you know, we have a problem.

He said, well, I mean, to send him to direct it, we have kind of an agreement here.

Then he gets a little upset.

He says, well, I know you guys are maneuvering around trying to keep it, you know, cosmetics and all that.

He's doing it all.

He's doing the thing that the Jews usually do.

He's humiliating.

But that means you can't humiliate Rogers.

Rogers is a proud man.

Now, the other thing that Rogers is, he would be a big enough man to know that we, the areas in which we work, do experience.

And sort of say, well, God damn it, Henry, you can't treat me this way, but I'll let it mark the present.

Now, Rogers, when he talks about understandings of immigrants and so forth and so forth,

I think Bill honestly believes in Henry.

because of his pro-Jewish bias, is not trustworthy.

And to be perfectly candid with you, I'm not sure either.

That's that's really what you get down to.

That is why Bill has been doing something.

He's, he's, he's certain.

Now, you know, we had a problem.

We had a problem.

Because he was still playing with Rubin, and he still claims that he was keeping that patch together, because Rubin was really the real one, and he's behind the scenes of the reassurances that he was taking.

How do we handle that?

That's the one key to how that would be handled.

That's the only reason I suggested about the procedure of having a private assembly.

I've got a memorandum to review.

Well, we can leave that at that.

See, people don't like that.

We can just sell that off.

You know what I'm saying?

I've got to send this to people who don't like it.

Listen, everything that comes into this office or any capitals, let names be stuck.

Did you know?

I've got a memorandum from him.

Use all sorts of people who don't know anything.

I want to just present it to the city.

There's all sorts of people, right?

I am not going to forgive you.

I know.

I mean, he sees everything, but he doesn't keep anything from him.

I do the same thing.

He runs it.

And Henry will buy that, and he knows that I won't.

You're not going to buy it.

You're not going to sell it to me.

that it makes Rogers feel better to deliver it to me.

If you were to go privately to the President one day, I would ask him, would you say this is, this is the, do you want to get anything?

Because Bill has said, no, I'm not going to give you the rose.

That's abandoned.

That's right.

That's completely out of the channels.

You should not get the applications.

We cannot have such a big matter go through here.

And if you go out of your space to go down the back or something, I don't think you'll do it.

I don't think it's very easy.

I think that's, I think that's why I think, that's why I compromise.

Because there's really no need to initiate a right.

But I think like the European Security Conference, I think we've got to face it down.

I'm trying to go there.

I can't think of a goddamn kindergarten kid.

What the hell are you doing?

You can't let Henry know what I'm trying to say.

The European Security Conference is a matter of all matters to me.

He wants to know what we're going to discuss again.

We've got an European Security Conference.

It doesn't matter.

I discuss it at every meeting.

You know, I discuss it at every one of these meetings.

Then Bill says, I'm going to send it to the State of New Orleans.

He said, it depends who that's going to be.

Is that right?

Not about the State of New Orleans.

The defense section is an E. The second board policy is an E. It's like, hang on, you don't have the board policy section in the state of the union.

But you have another policy you have to figure out how to put it up with the other one.

But the other way you view it, the domestic part, too, they're relevant, but you have to jump board policy into anything.

Back in the, you know, last week, earlier, I guess, man.

But now we, because of what's done, now they don't want to call and say, Johnny, God save you, Jonathan.

I think there'll be a big deal on that, by the way, so that's just going to enter, or it enters the bound, and he's going to show it to everybody.

Are you okay in the city, you know, is that, well, is that where you want it at this point?

Oh yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I'm just going to look at Oxman from now, beginning from now, and get me to press that back.

Yeah, because I don't want that man over me, and I've got to get that really done properly.

But it was rather good in sections because we were trying to get two out because we got one earlier.

It was bad.

Yeah.

We're now at a point where both of them agree.

The pinch that John and I made to both of them was that we've got a lot of problems.

You've got differences.

You don't see that personal differences.

You've got substantive differences and all that.

All of those have got to be subordinated to ending the foreign policy and being the real action.

And what we've got to do is hold this together.

And you just say this.

I've got to know everything because it's a political problem.

He obviously doesn't have confidence in you.

I'm sorry.

You're concerned.

And we will be informed of everything you need to be informed of.

There's no problem there.

The second point is that the European Security Council, what in the name of God is this bill taking place?

This may be one of Henry's imaginations.

There may not be anything.

I guess it's a bill that Henry said he wanted.

Henry made the point that Bill won't send it.

That basic paper is the way it is.

I had to discuss it in four different meetings with four different kinds of people in three.

And so if there was anything there, I had to know.

I had to rely on them.

I had to rely on the state and the NSA staff.

Always happens a lot.

I'm just reasoning about the best, not about the problems.

You know, we're very good scanners.

We're very good scanners.

Of course, I get terrible, terrible points from teachers.

You know, but I get, I get, you know, a very good governor.

We have nowhere else to go.

We have nowhere else.

We have nowhere else to go.

You see, a lot of these people don't like each other.

They're jealous of each other.

Their status is jealous and a lot of other things.

And we have done extremely well, I believe so.

But this one, however, is difficult because it moves into an area where I have to be the only person to agree to it.

It's always me personally.

And also, it's vitally important to me.

To be perfectly fair to you, I don't have confidence, total confidence, in either Henry or Rogers.

I have some more than Henry and Rogers, because Henry's groups are becoming increasingly

worked because of his personal involvement.

But just to be clear, any congressional man would say that the worst thing that could happen would be for the president at any time on any subject to have total confidence in any one individual.

And that's the worst thing he could possibly do.

And the problem with Henry is he does it only as a staff guy who is chanting other people's sins into you.

He is also a protagonist himself, and he tries to keep balance when he does that.

He'll do a good job of that.

I agree.

And here's where it builds up.

Here's where it builds up.

Because as I say, Henry Leonard Bales is in the state of case in here.

And the layers.

I have every goddamn thing the layer ever sends over here.

It's terrible.

But I see it.

And I can see it.

I see it.

the other side

that if Hammerhead had his brothers, we would be totally at the mercy of Israel, and that would be wrong.

It is well that we have done something more, you know, we would have had a ceasefire.

And you've got to give Roger his credit on that.

God, you must remember, Hammerhead opposed the ceasefire because he thought that was wrong.

And then the opposed steps, which the captain had been predicting for, well, this big thing up now is it's okay to want to talk about the airplanes, but they shouldn't be talking about negotiations.

We don't, we shouldn't be pushing.

And my interest lies in that, says, yeah, we've been pushing.

We hit negotiations every time we talk.

That's part of our standard line.

Well, I told Henry, he said, let them talk about negotiations and just kind of choose to drag their feet until we get to the south.

And it worked somehow.

He knows they can do that.

He knows they will.

But he wants to, I think he wants to be in a position to control it.

To tell the dean, I don't know, I think he should do it.

Well, I may be wrong.

I may be wrong, maybe.

But I think you're gonna face too much of a problem, Bob, to tell Bill.

The second is the indications on the Mid-East through Henry to me.

Because I think Bill, honestly, Bill's a conservative.

Henry, as a Jew, will not see it straight.

And incidentally, I think he may be right.

I think that Henry makes the indication sometimes.

I want to watch it.

They were being security guards, so I got them an election on a humanitarian question.

I want them to stay.

I want Laird to hit his input and all the rest.

This idea of study operating, can you imagine that?

I'd boast that he wants to run this, these trip to service, and all the rest.

They want to get into that part of the game.

Are we having a problem with that?

Oh yeah, we always did.

Sure.

Unfortunately, they have to run this through China, so that's not a problem.

Russia should, if they can.

And in fact, I just get the VJ to go to Moscow.

That's it.

Is he pushing out again?

He's going to close it up in the meeting with Mitchell.

He didn't handle it that, and I just thought again, you know, if it's that way around, if that again, and Gromito comes back, or Gromito comes back, if they want him to go to Moscow.

But what earthly use is considered?

Well, his argument is that what it serves is that the Russians feel that they have to have that because the Chinese have it.

That we would be downgrading them, at least to be the Chinese, if they don't get a passenger advance like the Chinese did.

And it's a terrible game.

Well, other than that, I mean, it is an earthly dialogue, honestly.

I had heard that you had been consistent on that all along.

It was obvious that there was no basis for a high level of mansplaining in Moscow any more than there was to what many other parents had laid out in the past.

And right now I haven't decided not to resign.

I suppose what you've got to convince me of this conversation really is.

Maybe.

Why?

Well, I think he's doing a little better than I think he is at this point.

That's part of it.

And part of it is he's kind of sat down and commuted with himself a little bit.

Just every few years, I see he ain't much left of it.

He was supposed to have had a hard time with it, and he got it back, I think.

He did.

He told me to keep doing it.

Keep doing it.

That's good.

But the absolute start of this is, you don't have options of resigning and not resigning.

You've got to stay here to this election.

So there's been, we're stuck with both of you.

And we've got to find a way to make it work.

You don't need to kill him.

He's rid of them right away.

Just let him bring it out.

It'll suck out.

But just say, I ain't got them all.

They're political reasons.

I hear the damn truth right in here.

You'll see it occur in all of Spain.

Tell them to go kiss my ass and not be getting political.

But you've got to tell Mitchell that it's got to be done.

We are now running very brave.

We're going to beat him on this, not because of votes, to make it clear so that Bill is smart enough to raise the question, but because of the influence.

And not because of money, but because of the money we deny to others.

Not we want for ourselves, but we deny to others.

It's really true.

We can play this game pretty well.

We've been very trained not to just go all the way out on the other side.

They didn't have the hands.

Do you want to remember?

They put up $8 million in the last two days in the camps, and I didn't even mention that to them.

The children did.

And we're trying to avoid that.

We should just talk full turkey to them.

Now, this is a weird, pleasant conversation.

It's going to be interesting.

Well, he's pretty good at keeping it under the surface, which he's got to do.

Oh, that's right.

Why don't you keep things out of here?

As long as the degree isn't the only place that we have any evidence of it, it's a great game.

If you agree with me, I don't care about anything else.

What the hell else does the state do that we care about?

And, well, the degree.

The degree does distract me a little bit.

The Secretary of State came with the Russian ambassador, and I don't care about the president first, but what he's going to say and what his objectives are, I don't care.

That's correct.

You hit me, so can you tell me what he means when I hit y'all?

And that's Henry's point.

Henry says, I have never met with the Russian ambassador without previously telling the person why I'm meeting with him and what I expect to cover with him.

Roger should do the same.

And Roger's answer is, well, Henry doesn't tell me what he's meeting with.

It's a little different, isn't it?

You're not the president.

See, Rogers is looking at himself in my way.

I'll tell him if I think it's proper.

See, Rogers, he comes to the ball back and says, I'll tell you.

And he said it, you understand?

And uh, you don't agree?

Yeah, I do.

And then, and then just, and then how you handle that with Henry?

Just say, tell him that's what we just done today.

Just generate the order.

We force everything out.

You'll see everything.

I'll let Mitchell tell, I won't let Mitchell tell Henry that he's getting directed to move the work since we had it all patched together and then trying to knock it out of the...

I don't see all of his directives, but when you look at Al, whenever he sees a directive that he thinks is too abrasive, he's got to get it in.

He's got to cool it down.

I bet Al didn't see that, but he did.

You know why he's a rough rider?

Particularly whenever he hits you on the top.

Correct?

Yeah.

It's sufferable.

You're talking about Ford, right?

You didn't hear what she's done to you pretty well in the show, did you?

If he's directed right, yeah.

I think if you're damn well puzzled with who's in direction, part of it.

No, but the internal plane, yes.

They've got to be careful not to, they've got to make sure that the air should go through a column that could cross on the jet.

Sure.

And that planter could be in their hand field in that full direction of the computer.

They're really in planning on a rough ride, rough job, and all that sort of thing.

That's the one thing.

And the domestic field, how do we handle it?

He won't be a turn-in analyst.

That's the political types.

Why are they totally in charge of this when we've got their bulk in us to come forward?

Because we've said that we must back him up.

Well, he's got no problem with being on that.

That's exactly what being on it is.

He has to do this.

that we're wrong, basically, that Irvin Kissinger are wrong in their way of dealing with cabinet people, and that he thinks we drive it too hard on the cabinet.

And that we should make, that any cabinet officer should have the feeling that he has access to the president, that he can, and he doesn't have to go through a set, and that's the point I made to Congressman.

I'm not trying to get between you and the president on any of this.

I'm trying to be a tool for carrying out what you and the president want done, and working in your direction on it.

He thinks that he can't deal directly with it.

That's why he argues that if you get the reorganization and got to 80 capitals, you should spend 12.

And then you got the right capitals.

If you had John Connolly's...

You know, today, uh, George Hill's, George Hill's list, and, uh, John Mitchell's list, people that are worth talking to.

And then he said, the kind of people you also, and then Potter and Kevin, are people like Ehrlichman, and people like that.

Did you have a person, and I'm gonna say Ehrlichman, right?

Did you try and deal with a person?

He meant his view, and said, what you ought to do then is make it.

of an undersecretary for each department to run and make the cabinet officers actually your executive vice presidents and bring them all over the EOB and set up a row of offices on the first floor of the EOB where all the captains sit.

And then you deal with them, kind of an avenue with your White House staff and have a cabinet back there.

Basically the British cabinet.

Pretty much that.

And eliminate the kids and peers in the early ones.

and deal with the thing directly.

I must say though, about one thing we do have to do, we have to

The urban operating was good.

It's good because he handles a lot of very difficult things.

It's good given the captain that he had.

His answer is that it's not the best system.

The best system would be to have two or three others like him as the captain.

Then he could be able to handle the captain.

But again, the urban operating and the likes of John Lee and Colby and Frankie Morton is really, really good.

and saying they are not capable of really putting in.

Now, on the other hand, the gift of your operation is not a help to the fact that he sold.

Well, and you know, to a great extent, it's personal.

That he personally

The humiliants, I'm going to start again with the humiliants.

What are the humiliants?

I mean, he's got this millennial home.

I don't think there are personally millennial homes.

And that's the same book.

I mean, he doesn't do this.

And worse than even Adam, you know, because he's got the Jew regime, which is, well, plus he is rational.

Adam's apparently could at least talk to him.

He was very rough, but he at least was Charlie's son.

Always a little voice.

Henry's not.

Henry, there are times when he just, you know, he gets up and walks out of the room.

He's like, please don't walk out until we finish.

And he slides it over.

It's frustrating itself to try to deal with somebody who hangs up on you on the phone or walks out of your room.

Yeah, yeah.

It sure does.

It helps to read what other people have gone through.

People have tantrums.

They have tantrums.

They act like children.

They cry.

And we are, we have become much more civilized and honored in this matter.

Well, because he recognizes that, yeah, basically we're very, you know, I have to be frank with you a little bit.

I do think, you know, I do think Bill has been, Bill, in his way, by not bringing things up, has been fine.

He knows the personal burdens of the office.

But he was being totally goddamn difficult in terms of trying to work things out.

And totally blind in terms of something hard.

And he knows damn well that they should just, he just can't help but know it.

He can't.

He can't help but know it.

And he just comes out the other day, you know, came back to check out what he did with me.

I had to fix this stuff.

I said, Bill.

Nowhere in the three years we've been here has there ever been anything out of the state, out of the White House staff, or out of the NSC staff, or out of Henry Kissinger, in any word, in one line, anywhere, in Brennan, a criticism of the Secretary or the State Department or the State Bureaucracy.

Yet every day in those three years, somewhere in the press, there's been at least one, and usually ten,

references of some kind of Ohio State Department official or something of that sort who has been critical of the president, of the administration's policy, of the White House, and of many of the states in the United States.

In fact, this is an inflexible law.

That's the way it is.

There is never a day goes by that we don't get shot at from over there, and there has never been a shot from here yet.

And that is a reality you've got to deal with.

And he said, well, that may be true.

He said, I guess it is.

But I know what these press people tell me about what they're saying over there about us.

I said, well, it's very strange that they never print a line like that.

And they print all that line from the other side.

Press people are silent now.

Of course.

And that is an unanswerable argument.

Part of it is a problem.

It's a problem.

Yeah.

Despite the fact that we, we of course, we've got to have great respect for Lewis.

Because he's very sensitive, he reads everything.

We also have to realize that as far as his political judgment, VR judgment, has been applied to his own activities, it has been a massive failure.

He would be the last one to hear that.

And I mean hear, hear.

and he's got to know he was in control of the country and saying do you know who the secretary is and in the world i mean he's well-liked but not considered being profound

I'm serious, man.

And he can't blame that on Kissinger and the NSC, because had he played his starts differently, he could have capitalized on Kissinger and the NSC.

And Conrad was a very smart man, taking credit for everything they did.

Just as Bell should take credit for taking the NSC good.

And that's the way we started.

If Rogers had been inflexible and infallible, supposed to be the way Henry is, and had learned that, well, he can do his homework, you would have never had Henry on a brief, because Bill could have done it, which he would have rather have done.

But he wouldn't have done it, Bob.

Because Bill didn't have his heart, for example, and I wouldn't have gotten on it.

But that's his fault.

That was his fault.

But I think there was a problem.

We came down to it.

What the hell?

I had to do the November 3rd thing, which was the first thing.

I had to do it pretty much by myself.

when it worked and they all started and they all came on, but it's very interesting.

And in all these times, I had to get up and hit the ball first.

I think that's not very interesting.

No, it's not very interesting.

But Bill, because of his pathetic desire to be liked and not to be on the wrong side,

Yeah, because he's a goddamn tractor-sposter.

I mean, he really is.

Yeah.

People like him, don't they, on television?

Yeah.

When he has conviction, he does a good job.

Yeah.

Look, in our city,

He's not working.

He does a good job.

I mean, he's not dumb.

Everyone says he's dumb.

He's not.

He is a creative, intellectual giant.

But he's quite a sharp one.

Very sharp.

And he's hard to solve.

He's lazy.

He doesn't work hard most of the time.

But when he does, he's lazy.

I thought that.

Well, no, this is lazy reading.

Yes, but he's not interested in the background, the strategy, the plot.

He's not interested in the plot.

He always gets tired and in pain.

He says, well, that's it.

Let's get what we do.

It's not lazy.

It's the patient.

I don't know.

The patient's just coming up.

He's just having a super day.

Yeah.

I'll stay there.

.

That's that.

I can't agree.

Now how about on the other hand, you talked about putting in the Rogers.

I do think that you almost got to put it to Henry.

Now, don't say that Henry is going to get away with this idea that Rogers is off the reservation and that you and Rogers are going to do that.

You see, Henry's the kind of person to tell that too.

He was thinking about going to take Rogers and he went to him.

He's not going to want to get away with that now.

I think that John is going to have to talk with him and say, I don't think he's going to get this done.

You agree or not?

Yep.

I'm not saying something's going to happen to us tomorrow, but if we get it here at the time of day,

I think he is.

Let me talk to him.

Four o'clock.

There.

I don't know.

I suppose that Peterson is probably going to Connelly on this council business of his and I assume Connelly wouldn't buy that.

He didn't just affect the purpose.

He said, get out of here.

Take over the world.

The council didn't want it.

Well, they got in the hand of the council.

They got in the hand of the council.

Well, I don't know if you've got another image.

Also, we did some digital technology, something like that, before you see the part.

So you can get all the tracks.

Well, with what we've said, let's say again, we spent about an hour and a half, and we couldn't just be thankful, right?

I think Anderson's going to be over here and serve his initiation period.

He'll be a better cabinet officer, do the work with staff when he comes up.

Do you understand?

Do you feel me?

You really need that miracle.

So you need to go through it.

Never will, but it will.

It's part of it.

You know, even getting rid of one, if I can see what I did.

Let me say one final thing.

Isn't good God for any man?

The way he is abused.

and serves for his services.

But because it gives it, it also has a big amount of all of its medications and grave problems we need to have, which is not great.

It's a great loss for us, for the average American people.

Amen.

Yeah.

who the suspect is and that's probably .

So what does it look like?

That's what I'm asking.

What does it look like?

We did .

Right.

How do you think we can turn it the other way?

.

We have the suspect.

We have .

We don't have a case.

He said he was trying to deal with the fact that he had violence in his service.

He was trying to deal with the fact that he had violence in his service.

.

Yeah.

He said that almost Saturday he came up to me and said, you know what?

The idea that he was beating them.

The idea that he was under attack.

with no, nobody defending him.

Now, that's how we get to the end of this.

I mean, the point is that, uh, you know, what, what is, we need to make a, if anyone wants to find anything, well, specifically, would you suggest that, did you suggest that we actually, uh, heard that this would be appropriate?

That's right.

What is the one, that's one thing we did.

I mean, we all want to hear it.

This is one that has been said.

Okay.

Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on White House leaks and Anderson Papers

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

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Also recorded on January 17, 1972

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Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on White House leaks and Anderson Papers

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on January 17, 1972

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Cite this conversation