Conversation 648-004

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I was going to say that I think the...

that the idea I have on this thing is that it should not go to everybody.

The opinions expressed are still not...

In fact, it shouldn't.

For example, it should never go to Kissinger.

People like that, you know what I mean?

I mean, the only ones I think it should have are people who have to do something about the news.

It wouldn't have to come to me.

I mean, basically, usually you have, what I agree with you is, it's an analysis that we're all going to see every morning by somebody, you know, as to the kind of thing to watch for.

And I would think the group that I would have would be yourself.

My great-grandfather,

And say that, you know what I mean, here in Colston.

In Colston, exactly, yeah.

I'm just trying to say, so that when you hand your meeting, maybe your staff meeting, you bring out that number.

But I don't want to get what Robert was talking about.

I saw something there that was pointing out that you made comments about the China tragedy, the left and the right were both attacked and so forth.

That's the kind of thing.

Yeah.

also give people strength.

Now, for example, one thing that we can point out today, they ought to go to the staff first.

They ought to go to you and the others.

You got a right here on this regard to achieve very, very, very strong where Humphrey came up against the Richmond decision.

And now we've got to push Erland and his crowd to see what the health position I'm going to take on the city so that Rob doesn't have to walk the park.

That's why I'm telling you that.

You wouldn't otherwise get it, maybe.

You might.

You can't.

because you always have the guy at berlin is looking for those things i'm sure

I think you put your finger on it much better than I have.

That's what I'd like to do.

I'd like to have that.

In terms of

myself, my guess is that it probably is just as well that I not get involved in it for this reason.

It's too often.

I get a very good deal with somebody who's treating myself, and I will look at it in a far more balanced and objective way than I do off of Buchanan's.

Or do you want to send it to me too?

I don't mind either way.

I'm getting, what I'm getting at is that I, yes.

He won't do it if he doesn't think we're sending it to you.

I have not sent it to him.

Because, you know, the original approach was really to discount.

You said, for you to get a sort of a fix on the action.

Send it to us.

Send it to me.

Good, good, good.

I can handle it.

I don't want to do that.

But I know that what happens in the future, I'm sure the right people will read those things if they want to be candidates.

We'll go for it.

He overrode it.

He did all of the political stuff.

I mean, hell, it happens when you're on political stuff.

You see, but that's all right, too.

There are other people watching after this, and that's where we ought to jump on, on making a move, too, and on writing here about the political stuff.

The other thing I was going to say is I don't think you ought to go to the hot tub.

My personal thing would be that I suggest that it should not be done every day.

You know, I think that it's better that, as a matter of fact, if you could get a, that's a good idea, you see, so that you don't get, yeah, but also it's a terrible, it's a terrible burden for fellow officers who are there and have to think every night about this.

And also, if he doesn't hop up, if you react to him hopping up, I had him, frankly, he got a G1 Monday afternoon after the Magnus netherrack, so he gets a P.H.R.

last week, and another one on Thursday.

Yeah, just to look at Freddie so we know how to close out the week.

Yeah, that's right.

Thursday, open the week as to what we want to get for the week now.

There you go.

This is a very good thing that we've been wanting to do.

And don't let him get too much money.

You know what I mean?

No longer than what he's doing now.

This is fine.

Just drop some of the stories that come and go.

The problem with doing it every day is that he's going to pick out stories that are...

that excitement that day because he's told to do it when they are going to run it.

Exactly.

And he could also, if he ever sees one that he wants to fly in the in-between days, obviously he could put a little topper on saying, in the exact emergency we've got to look out for this.

But he does that quite often, or somebody does.

You know, that's him.

Tell him that he should watch and say, be sure to watch for this or that or the other thing.

And, you know, put a flyer.

But then, in other words, he should write a memorandum every Sunday afternoon, which we would get Tuesday.

And every, in other words, certainly lead young men.

And every Thursday, now you're talking.

That's the kind of thing we need.

And that way it'll help with that end.

But let me suggest, limit it to Colson.

Yourself, the sailor, that's about it.

I don't think you should, uh, well, I think Irvin better have it, because as McGregor and Irvin is so balanced, it isn't going to knock him off his kids anyway.

That's not his thing.

I don't think you should go to him.

You agree?

Yeah.

Well, it's good for Irvin to get it, too, because Pat's evaluation will tend to be a little better than what would be more to the right, more to the right than the interaction on his cast than his cast people give him.

Exactly.

But again, he's got a fine line.

You know, he goes to the heart of things as fast as anybody I've ever saw.

He gets stuff in there and he's .

And other people will crap around and this and that.

And he keeps this stuff through against him.

There's nothing to do with the question about it, really.

Because he held an asset in the campaign for that reason.

Not an accent, if you allow yourself to react like that.

He's got the ability to get you stirred up.

He's extremely emotional about these things.

Emotion, but great power.

Oh, well, I know it's small, but I just wanted to be sure.

And I stopped, and I told Christ that we may not send around 35 copies of this draft to everybody.

And he always does that to everybody who reads it.

But nevertheless, I know that some speculations have been pressed to the effect that I was going to make a very insulatory talk and so forth.

I guess that's the issue.

I mean, it is going to be, but it doesn't help any of the common advance.

I'm sure somebody just said it was the best of intentions.

Yeah.

We always get it.

I don't hear it.

They tend to be as important as they are, right?

Whoever puts those out usually doesn't know.

And sometimes somebody can't see them, though.

They see them in the rain.

Although I don't think he's...

The drafts have gone far at all this time.

I'm calling this time.

Other than early on, he's been working with them for, you know, the...

I say specifically...

I only like to specifically get a board, right?

Right.

He said take her and watch what she's saying.

I said, but not everybody else.

So, and I said, you know, I should talk to her.

So, I said, fine, I don't think.

All right, Scott.

I think he's left with Shakespeare, and he didn't left yesterday.

He wanted to interpret it.

That's up.

Yeah, Frank Gantz didn't go, because he was doing cultural exhibits, and that's the cultural guy.

What did I expect from him?

There are some.

I hope they saw and realized these were enormous.

They would end up upgrading it for this position.

Hell, I'm not sure where it began, like for Russian people going out to the Kennedy Center and all that crap.

There are some nice things here.

There are.

I don't know if I put that word in our hands.

Well, it looks like they are now.

That's a trip up.

That's the kind of thing that Glenn would never be able to do.

He could never.

Even if he could afford it, he could never do it because of who he, you know, the position he goes into.

There's a spending curve.

Take the drought with the number of other nice people along the edge of the trip.

And what they're writing, they saw this all inside a hotel.

Rolled in the car, and he just started out on his car, and I ran out of line until he could see what it looked like.

They soak up all that socializing that you won't do when you're on the strip.

They'll have all kinds of dinners.

Meet with the

Yeah, was he ever in that at all?

I can't remember.

He was never in that.

Maybe he would, you know, he might have been in that thing somewhere, yeah.

True, it's a lot better.

One point is that we don't want to get into it, you know, I don't know what Ron does, but you ought to get out that thing, you know, where the idea of the law not being repeated, you know, the fact that he was, remember, the facts on that.

That should be something that ought to come from somebody outside of that thing, though.

Well, of course, the point is, you remember we put out a statement in 62.

Yeah.

He might even refer to that.

I don't know if he wants to dust it off, but that was actually 10 years ago, and here it is.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Maybe he might find it, but maybe he can't find it.

Maybe it isn't around.

Well, I know Rosa's got it.

I'm sure she's got the whole thing.

Yeah.

It shows you that people,

It's a mystery story and it's fascinating that, you know, here's this man locked up in a hotel in Paradise Island and now they're saying that his beard has grown down to his waist and he's let his fingernails grow six inches long or something.

And I'm sure it probably isn't true, but it makes, you know, it's always... Uncle Steve Green or whatever his name was with their money.

He just said he has nothing to say.

Well, I really think he ought to say that he's happy right now.

I'm trying to think if there's somebody on the side that was, that was happy.

Yeah, we ought to go on.

I shouldn't say we have nothing to say, but at least it's very good.

It is a building, very much.

Well, my point is, don't just leave an impression of guilt, but I don't have anything to say.

I have no comment on it.

I mean, you said that was a responding group down there in 1932.

Maybe that's one client, I don't think that... Rather than having a press secretary, although a client was there through all of it, was Ron.

Well, Ron was there in 62.

Well, I can't remember exactly what was it about.

I think it might have been...

I don't want to put out from here.

That's the problem.

Oh, it's got plenty to go, plenty to go to, you know, hit the wires on it.

None of them.

I think the big thing out of it is make the point that you just don't get asked it.

You just say, well, you know, I, I, that's, he's the old-timer.

He's got the ending.

I mean, I've known him a long time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To...

Ron's too young to come out and say that's an old story.

He doesn't know the story.

Very good.

I'm very, very, completely answered.

The gentleman there is almost paid.

Almost satisfied, really.

Satisfied by the transfer.

Yeah, that's my point.

I just wanted to ride.

Yeah.

I didn't want to say that, but before that was...

I think you're right.

You don't want to have it on to us.

We've got to revert back to something.

Many years ago, I'd sit up and respond to your question.

They revert back.

There's a post when they picked it up out of the, you know, just a flip on the book.

Then it said, then referred back to the Drew Pearson story in 1659, I don't know what happened, that, you know, they carried that part of it so he could go back.

And I bet he said, sure, that's the way he had it.

He was 62.

Yeah.

And then it was, there was a contentment major to that.

He tried to impose it on the community, actually.

But all of a sudden, it's not very good.

And he got nothing out of it.

I don't know.

and realized that some of what he said is going to cost him a lot of money, which it will, because he convinced us and he screwed some guy out of a patent on a drill and a lot of stuff like that.

And you know, he's still got some big lawsuits pending, and this is where one of the guys goes.

There was, however, the thing where you asked my neighbor.

He was, that's right, two years ago.

And what happened in his book, I don't, maybe this is it.

No.

Oh, I see.

Sorry about that.

No, because these are focused on screw use as well.

Well, the way it does, I guess.

Maybe that's it.

Maybe this is a...

That was Dieter's son, or it was simply that it seemed that, knowing he was his child, it was probably something he decided that it was time to do the book before he died and all that.

So he did the book, then realized it was going to do him more harm than good, and was trying to turn it off, and in his weird way, you know, saying, I didn't do it, and the guy that wrote it noticed him, and he didn't do it.

See, the white people and the McGraw-Hill people who own the rights,

McDonnell and Butler Sheriff's Office material rights are absolutely convinced that you've said it.

I can call Shetland and find Jim Jensen of its animal rights negotiations.

Of course, now it doesn't matter whether you wrote it or not.

The goddamn thing has been so built up now that all I can do is put it back on and be able to stack it up.

It'll be one of the other books I've read.

It's a really good book.

in the right framework and time because there are enough people still that remember him to read the book.

But also, he's a min figure, you know?

And, you know, I was going to go to the lunch and tell you that story about losing the nursery, and I didn't go to it, because he was crying on the floor, and I said, he said, listen, I'm not going to lose the nursery, because I don't want to lose the nursery.

So, we were living, and he said, you're not going to lose the nursery.

And apparently, it was all true.

So, I woke up, and I did it.

It's almost unbelievable that I actually have six kids.

You know, it's an unbelievable thing to me that he can have six kids, but how he studied.

It's a remarkable story, though.

It really is a fascinating story.

Did you read it?

No, but I've read the book.

I've read the book.

I've read the story.

It's a great story.

Apparently it was one who married a lovely woman, or something like that.

I mean, a lot of those are as long gone.

Oh, there is, it was determined that they had their own life.

I remember there was a strange story about their marriage to begin with.

I mean, before they were married, it was the leading end of the marriage.

That's been alluded to.

Another question.

I'm curious.

I have a little story with someone.

I've been in a project, and I've got a question.

Tell me.

I have a really good little story.

I don't know if it's about Christ, but it's a little story.

Oh, I have a little story.

That time was all over.

It had all the kids in it.

Oh, yeah.

It was Peter.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, sure.

That's right.

Okay.

So you see, after he lent 20 to the Vice President, and he had, this happened before he ran for Vice President, after he became the Secondary President, and then he lasted forever.

And then of course, he stopped them.

They made the thing.

The only real thing with this over the years up until a couple years ago was the fact that she was there the day he died.

Was it March?

Yeah.

Was it March 9th?

She was at March 9th.

And they made it sort of a mystery kind of thing.

It was a lot at that point.

She had been married to that guy.

But she commissioned a portrait that was being painted by that...

I guess it was Schumann-Topp or somebody.

Someone was doing the portrait.

at the time he died, and Lucy was there while he was sitting.

It is, it's a fascinating, you know, it's in fact, some of those stories, the Lincoln story with his wife, the Roosevelt story with his wife.

Yeah.

It's sort of a fascinating story.

I wonder if anybody will ever write the Kennedy story.

I don't think that my story comes out.

This one, of course, is being written as a

As greedy as them.

On tragedy rather than as sympathetic.

Yeah, that's what Julie's called.

Rather than as sympathetic in the way that Jane made that.

Marty Hall.

Well, this is Joe that actually was very, you know, according to Bill, all that Joe and Eleanor had to think about.

Well, that's our real answers.

I think he was a bit weird.

But nevertheless, yeah, yeah, I fully understand that.

I said, County, they won't be hurt for this reason.

There was no other woman.

There were women.

And I think that that makes a very, very difference.

Yeah.

That's right.

There was no intention of hurting, but there was no blow or anything like that.

There was no other man either.

It's kind of like the Wiggins of the early 19th century.

I mean, they just ran around the hall, ran around the great show.

I mean, it was a problem provided they didn't have a force, because they had a force to rule, and that's the difference.

Okay.

I mean, it was a very fascinating thing.

Yeah, he's a weird enough guy that it's got elements of all kinds of .

did it on a personal basis.

You know, they're good, very good personal friends.

It wasn't, it wasn't planning.

I'll tell you what the story was.

Planning didn't, Buckley called planning wanting to get Cory appointed to something.

And they got into a Buckley intellectual type exchange on the...

I'm not sure whether it was back in the day.

But there was, there was a server that explained that.

And I don't know that I would have gotten to know that.

But I mean, the point of the story, I think, is this Mitchell must be the man that, you know, even if he's planning things, or he can't, or anybody else, that's a friend.

And he's got to know, because he's got these names, he's fighting like these guys.

I don't know if he's fighting in the popular league.

I mean, he's a champion.

I mean, he could not be with the other.

But OG3 is official.

Well, I don't understand.

I'm not really in any question about it.

Another one, .

Now, .

Buckley answered with a letter .

And Buckley sent copies of his letter to the A.G. and to me, and they gave him copies.

I need my

I read the board policy stuff, and I read the domestic stuff, and I say about the battle, I feel much better.

I get to see what Muskie said about this and that and the other thing.

And I just think, too, also there's a tendency for the New Sons inevitably to...

No matter how they're registered, and they strike, and they go this and that, and they go up and down, it's like, it's true, and there's nothing I can do about it.

But the thing is, there's nothing I can do about it.

Right.

What do you think?

I didn't get shot.

I don't think it is.

What it points out is the weakness of the networks.

Because the networks don't cover very much.

And then you start to have people who are from Washington and the other end, you know, the other end.

As a matter of fact, what was the name of the cover?

I don't know.

You've got to look at it as you do with the right kind of house.

That's one of the things, like the Bobbitts-Rogers, I don't know if it's the... Not Rachel, I don't think.

But his concern is that it plays up the wire surface stuff.

Namely, the wire surface.

that don't get played.

In other words, they look for things that are of interest to us, and sometimes they're things on the wire, like something that some senator said or something, that never get printed anymore, that we'll want to mark another time.

There is something.

But the other side of that is, it's terribly important to look at that, because otherwise you're limited only to what the Post and the Star and the Times have got going on.

And you miss what the Omaha World-Herald picks up and all that.

The only way you're going to get that is to look at the wire show.

You have to agree with the guys that call the Los Angeles Times and call somebody who says, what's the paper?

They do.

I think they go through 50 and 50.

on a non-everyday basis, but they check the stories.

They watch them.

They go through not just the L.A. Times, but those they can cover regularly, the data, the major papers.

But then they also cover a whole bunch of papers on the same point.

Any probability of objection is being raised to much smaller juncture.

I think it's inevitable.

I think it's jealousy.

There's no way around that.

First of all, it takes more than that to do a show.

I don't know what I can balance with regard to the press.

This criteria are unchallengable on the basis of who gets to that.

They can make the case that there's an overweighting to them, but the point is that that's it.

On the basis of audience, it's not overweighting.

If you were taking any legal law, and you were going to weigh it according to the audience reach, 75 of them ought to be from the network, and 5 of them from the press.

the word is so well out now that we probably should go ahead and make the announcement

idea that he wants to toss into the announcement about setting up a new council on jobs or something.

And, uh, Irving and Schultz are opposed to that.

Yeah, they ought to start a lot.

His rationale, which you've got to be aware of, people are saying to him when they read these rumors, why the hell would you want to be Secretary of Congress?

Which is, uh, not too bad.

I don't know if you want to hear me in, but...

There's an opportunity to win something out of Congress if you go out of it, right?

That'll do us good.

I mean, he's right there.

He said, like, we can go out there with jobs, and, you know, he was delighted that Peterson was coming into this, because he said, now, he and I, we can go into this jobs thing where it stands.

I can never get through to him.

He never understood what I was talking about.

Peterson was.

I want to tilt the...

The other one, on the replacement for Peterson, he talked to Henry and Connolly primarily because he wanted to be sure that they wanted him to do this and that was all understood.

And Connolly

is concerned about the question of, you know, any involvement of monetary policy in that area, obviously.

And Pete's concerned about the exclusion of monetary policy.

And the question of whether the policy is more important to us than Pete is.

Absolutely.

Pete understands that.

He has no argument with Tommy.

The argument he makes there is the same one that both Tommy and Pete have.

And what plans do you have as a tool to comment?

In fact, he provides a way for Treasury to control it and for them to have an operating wish on the asset he needs in the White House to ride through it on the other departments for him.

I think that Ken Peterson is not the best person to respond to because he's so direct and obfuscate sometimes.

There's not two streets.

You just have to settle it.

You just say, look here, this is the way to do it.

You don't have to go there.

You've got to keep him out of this.

It's fine.

I think if you sit down and you consider the main thing is that money is a problem that must be in control.

We've got to get the state out of control.

Here is the device, we're sure about what we can do, and here is the man you can use.

If you're at the plant, if you're staying at the plant, this is the way to keep the ears under control.

You've got to keep the ears under control.

What I get to make a comment here today, and if I do, I get to do it, and I'll say, like, everybody keeps people in control.

See, Gunn has talked about that.

He's wanted Kiss to hear it, but in Kiss, he's wrong.

That Kiss here is the last gun in the world to do it, right?

And he can use money.

The way for him to look at it is that he uses money as a device, and Pete's perfectly willing to beat him.

There's no philosophical dispute.

He thinks Treasury should be on top of it.

He makes the point that the policy there is set by the Voter Committee anyway, as it should be.

And that his thing could be a device for implementing what I have in mind.

Well, we ought to do it today or tomorrow, I think.

But I think we ought to announce Lannigan at the same time we announce Peterson.

We ought to make a three-way move, otherwise you're going to leave a gap there on what's going to happen on that economic policy council.

That will look like it's being downgraded, but it's been built up so much.

He's got a real problem that doesn't relate to this, which is a very valid one, which is that Peterson is turning over to him a sound here that looks like a silk purse.

By the luck of the draw, the thing has come out to look like a hell of an effective organism because of all the things that have happened.

But it had nothing to do with it.

That looks like it did.

Well, then he at least got a hand in it.

And that's fine.

Let him think so.

It gives you credit.

for doing, but the problem is, in the process, he has a lousy staff and a lousy operation, and kind of wants to come in as an inside guy, so he doesn't want to be a spokesman type like, like Peterson's been.

And, uh, he's got, you know, he, here's the problem, when you pick, if you pick up something that looks bad that really is good, you can, you can make a lot of hay out of it.

If you pick up something that's

Now if we can't get all this work done,

I don't know why we can't.

It's already leaked so much that, you know, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Fans told people over Congress on parts of that, when you tell the department, and he was right to tell them.

So at least then it gets out.

The other way around it, if we can't get an analysis, you could still make the...

The players cannot make a farewell at the stands and just say, this is just in the family hands, but now we're not going to answer.

I just don't have to get Conley out first.

It's not that he wrote it.

I'll be honest.

Yes, sir.

I'll tell you what I'd like to do.

I don't deserve Conley Nelson.

The purpose of this is to put him in charge of this thing.

And that's the whole monetary thing.

It appears that Flanagan clearly understands that the problem is being charged under the monetary, but international, you know, economic trade policies and the rest, that Flanagan will need a strong right arm in the White House, not only for tax, and tax.

And if you could bring it that way, if you could get him to let it that way, it might be a very helpful way to end work.

How do you want to talk to him?

If you don't want to talk to him, I think it's better to do it that way.

If you don't want to talk to him, then I'll do it that way.

I will.

Two-step thing on this side.

All right.

We'll see here.

All right.

What do you see when you come over?

12 today, or two, or three, or eight.

You can't do it this morning.

All right.

I'm afraid not.

Right.

Go ahead.

uh but then we really have not too much we're going to indicate your continuing your work on this and budget matters i may get a question this morning about the anderson papers again he ran that i talked to al hayes about this

i think we can get this totally out of the way baseball asked well isn't the president concerned about it simply by saying look it's obvious when matters of this sort become available the president is concerned about it that's all i'm going to say we're not going to discuss any investigations as we have already made clear but as of this point we have not expressed concern about this and i think some people are reading into that

the fact that we haven't, that we have something, you know, we haven't said the concern about the leak.

We have not said on any occasion that you are concerned about the leak.

but why don't you just say it in 93 words?

Right, in that word.

But to me, obviously, this is to me like this is direction, and it's direction.

I don't want to be particularly frank with you, but for a member of the Press as well, the Press, we...

The investigation is seriously under way.

And we are not there to defend you.

Each post has got to be called into action, right?

That's really true.

Now here, if you want to read it and say, you can make the, you can say, who is this and that, and say, well, there's a lot of, there's certain kinds of evidence, but the main witness, the only proper witness, unfortunately, is the man in the Polish material.

And this is all very recommended for the members of the press.

We're not going to do that.

That's good.

yeah i'm inclined to think that i don't want to hypo this story anymore but i don't want it to hypo on the other side by having not expressed concern and i would only raise this if they asked me

The president considers it important.

If they get into anything on Kissinger, which I don't think they will, I'm going to say that's all been covered.

This person obviously stands behind this.

Yes, I'd say that very strongly.

And as several of you ladies and gentlemen pointed out in your comments, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, pointed out in your comments,

There's a little bit of a discrepancy between the private positions of the administration, and you have this kind of verse, or rather, a graphic description of internal discussions, these kind of discussions that are being encouraged all the time, to be very adversely discussed by the support of any member of the cabinet.

He's not going to allow this kind of belief.

It's supposed to have been before.

He's going to be telling me something about it.

It's not going to go on.

This kind of disclosure, and the disclosure of my knowledge, is going to be very, very important to allow the administration for a very long time to allow this to lead to less disdain.

This is not seriously trying to disdain.

And less reason to take it all day long and stop considering it.

He feels that the most serious aspect of the President's view is that in the opinion of this President and any of the others, that we have to deny

the most bold, honest kind of advice that we can get from this.

There must be a plan, whether encouraged or not encouraged, that all options get prevented.

There are various ways to go on.

In this case, we're solving that difficult problem.

But, that's all.

And, I mean, so far as I'm concerned, that's how it is.

Some of you are the very objective members of this press corps and pointed out in your comments that you could say something to me.

And I voted.

Take the boat.

Take the boat and cut off the distance.

Here is the council for Red War.

Now war.

There should be no question about it.

I was getting this news that he was slated to go to the Union very rapidly, but he didn't.

I'm going to leave that to time.

If you back up, don't back up.

I won't back off of it, but I'll try not to.

I'll dress him up here.

I can work that out.

This is exactly what you did.

Jerry, I'll be back.

Right now, the day after.

Yes, he does.

Okay, then I'll... No, I won't...

The...

Only other thing, and I raise it because Mrs. Nixon called John about it, wanted some guidance from me, on this Irving book on the Hughes, you know, autobiography, where they suggest Clifford was involved in that.

Really?

who called me and suggested that I develop a line.

My feeling is that that's 14 years old, and that has been discussed thoroughly, and that we do not even begin to address the question of where the German race is at this moment.

Don't you agree?

Well, we were just talking about that, but we haven't been able to leave the record.

You can't do anything at a regular time on a charged sentence.

See, the charge is false.

We answered it, as you recall, in 62.

Right.

But the point, the loan was never repaid.

Which is true.

Well, the stock is now transferred to EROC, which was worth more than the amount of the loan, and therefore satisfied the loan.

And that's the point.

That's the point.

The money involved in some places is not going to be offered.

It's the state of the decision that's going to do it.

They say this is all, excuse me, they say this is all, this is a very, very old story that, I don't know, well, that's not my voice.

I can't even say, if you get it with me, whether it was my son or not, that was an old statement made at that time.

Then he asked for the statement from you.

I think it's better, let's try to get the statement out first, and then you ought to settle off for now, and then somebody can get the statement out, and then he can say the statement.

But I've got to look relaxed.

You've got to look relaxed.

I don't want to snowball it in a way that looks like we're uptight.

I think that you suggest, look, that's an old story.

It's disgusting.

I have nothing more to say.

There have been total statements issued on that, and I have absolutely nothing more to say about it.

14 years.

That's it, put to rest.

I thought we could do it.

We could get out the 62 statement, uncline, cover that on the basis, you know, he was the press secretary then.

He said he was around at 60 when the men was being kicked around in that campaign.

He could say, geez, don't you guys get tired of dreading that?

I don't think they're going to do that.

i don't know if you'll ask about it i just want to be ready and i want to tell mrs mcconnell and connie stewart and this is that i think it's a hurt position well they're not i just i guess she's concerned that this may be after i think her interest was making the point that uh

did repay the loan, that was the point she made.

But I don't think she should get into it.

Right.

My advice to him is that apparently the book doesn't find that out.

Well, we don't know that it doesn't.

All we've got is the fact that it says there was a lot more to say than that.

I think the surgeon may be a phony.

No.

Did you watch him?

I watched him on the .

He's the author.

But you can tell when the guy's speaking from competence or if he's putting on the image of speaking for competence.

In my initial impression, that's told to .

He theoretically met this guy in hotels and things like that.

But he's kind of a... Irving, in watching Wallace with him last night, was... had that characteristic about him.

He had a very relaxed mind.

I think that's about it.

I won't say anything about the Olympian defeat.

In Chile, Ghana bleed the same.

Well, not in relation to this.

It's just are we going to recognize them.

That's a state matter.

Italian newspapers are carrying reports that the president will visit Poland on his return from Moscow.

I'm going to close that up.

while still maintaining flexibility.

I'm going to say there's no plan with respect to going to Poland right after Moscow.

That's it.

I just understand you've got some of these because you're putting too many television people on the trip.

That's a great idea.

Well, I'm going to go with it.

In terms of the amount of audiences you reach, you're going to take five, and it's going to be about 85 million people.

And the thing I'm... Scallion and 10-mile park.

We're going to talk to New York and meet with the TV people, but if they build on this, I'm just going to say now the question is, television show business or television news, you people are going to have to make your own determination.

You wrote it right in both ways.

On one hand, you say television has dramatic impact in terms of communicating the news.

You say it's your own columns, and now it's your own premise in your story.

You're saying it's children.

What is it?

You make that decision.

The television, news, media, requested of the administration to cover a very historic event.

Well, and also, if you find a way to cover that now, isn't it that way now?

Oh, substantially, yes.

And I'm going to have the television network support that.

Interesting thing, though.

the chinese we have a thing in here this morning have expressed interest and they raised us when we were there purchasing an rca ground station for skyline did you mention it no what shows that the chinese are intrigued with television probably more so well in fact there was no way

There's going to be heat on this, but we have a very defensible person.

I'll take it, sir.

I'll take it.

I'm telling you, we've got it now.

They've come slithering up to my office by the time of...

I just want to know, sir, and I'm not going to know, and I'm going to let them just come, because it just shows the character of... You know, the hard-fitting...

tough guys out there for a while, who I know are, you know, their organization is on the list.

They're really coming around.

I'm just going to let them do it for a while, and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it.

I'll see you at the stage later.

Thank you very much.

they are asking if you're going to cover both domestic and foreign

Very good.

It's coming from some of the organizations.

I've gotten a letter from the head of the Associated Press.

If you're not a press member, they'd like you to be a press member.

Not a TV press member,

That's what you're going to get.

You're going to get five.

You're going to get something worth a lot.

The rabid thing, I think they all are very...

I haven't quite forgotten any of it.

How do you want to do it?

I've got a permit doctor response time for your state of the island.

I saw that for the first time in a long time.

They came up with that the last time when they had Mansfield do it.

We agreed with you on everything, so this time, they're going to apparently have Mansfield and Algaron or something, and have people around the country phone me and question about the state of the union, and they're going to answer.

No, they can't.

If you do it here, you walk out of the pressure room, there's no fear.

If you do it here, in the office, you should be compelled.

But if you walk out of the pressure room,

There's no way that they can, as I understand it, and I just read these, where they can provide... No, I have an Easter, and I think they're here.

There, I think there's a question.

Why?

One moment.

The full, full running, which they could do, could have our area live.

And if there's no... Well, that could open and open across your ashtray.

Well, why?

I don't know.

So we'll put them on track.

And let the networks say, we won't carry the president's press traffic slide on the TV.

Let's see what happens.

The networks will do that.

They're going to carry it.

I'm going to tell them they will.

They will.

They'll have it.

Okay.

You guys know?

Hang on, I'll cut you off.

I'll just call the taxi.

Yes, sir.

Uh, the President wonders if you would be available to speak at any time from 2 on this afternoon.

What is your convenience, sir?

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Square root of the sapphire is not what you want to have.

You've got to knock that stuff.

Yeah.

You can't ever save that person.

That's tough.

Going to God damn well-planned field.

He's so desperate he needs a rider over there.

Fortunately, I've got a thing down in the States where I'm going to freeze that fire to get it done the first draft of my mark, you know, and get the whole goddamn thing down in the States.

As I told you when I go to Florida, I'm probably going to be there a little bit.

I'm going to come back Sunday night, come on Monday and Tuesday to get required to do it.

See, you've got to take time off, even if it's for a long time.

And just before that, we're going to do the budget sign because Andrew was up on it.

It's not a good word for us, but it has to be done.

We don't have to have to press anybody.

Well, fine.

I agree to that.

You said that the staff didn't want to get a picture?

Yeah, I said that.

I said that.

We're going to have to get back into the strategy.

You don't want to get it.

I had a good talk with Sapphire this morning.

I think I've also seen the notes you've made.

And I think, I think we can squeeze out some of the detail and leave it for the briefing because I think your instinct is right.

The one place where we need detail, Mr. President, if you agree, is in the proposal we are making, and here's why.

I think it would be best if we didn't have to release the text until I brief on it the next day.

If you're prepared to release the text that night,

Then you can squeeze it down in what you say.

What worries me is if you release the text, they're going to start lip-ticking the text right after you get on.

And then I'd have to read that night, which wouldn't be good.

I think that night your speech should be featured and I shouldn't read until the next day with the technical stuff.

What do you mean?

Why can't the text?

Because the text, one of the texts of the speech.

No, I want the text of the speech to rise that night.

And the text of the proposal to rise the next day.

That's the case.

I don't want to put too much of that stuff in the speech because it's being too hard on me.

Well, let's see if we can do it, Mr. President.

Well, let's see how it reads.

I've asked, I've urged him to put in, I agree with you completely that in the previous hymn, when we talk about May 31st, July 12th, July 26th, there he can squeeze out all the poems.

You don't want to cover every point of every proposal.

It's just of our last proposal that we ought to see whether we can put in enough.

But if word comes to word, we can say we'll release it tomorrow.

There's no crime in that.

Then they'll have to wait.

I need to have Harriman get on right after you've been on.

Yeah.

And tear the proposal apart.

Yeah.

Well, then, how do you conclude that?

I mean, here's part of the proposal, and here's part of it.

The point is, I mean, he'll tear it apart if I include that too much.

Yeah.

I think it's better not to do these things.

And still hold it until the next step.

Well, and there might be a proposal before you do that.

And then that might be a little bit of something you can say, well, correct, or maybe not.

I'm going to read it.

but we'll have to release the text fairly soon after this speech.

Right, something will happen.

Yes, but you may be, this may be right.

If we don't release it, then if they,

Because the proposal is a very subtle one, which we are now tying down with Q, which in effect saves prisoners for withdrawal in the first phase, and now even the ceasefire is in the second phase of this now.

Prisoners will withdraw in six months.

And then election ceasefire and everything else in the next phase, which can run concurrently, but which, if we can't get it concurrently, can start later.

I'm positive because I wrote the proposal.

I will be shifted in that last proposal.

Slightly.

But that's what's the complication is to explain the two phases.

That I cannot do it in a secret?

No.

That you cannot do it.

That really is too complicated.

That's right.

I wonder if there is the power to do it in my...

I think that, you know, here's a, here's a layman who didn't know a damn thing about it.

We're so close that he thought it's a tremendous little matter.

Wallop.

Let's see what he comes up with.

What I'm getting at is that I hear...

Yeah, he's already been talked to, I think, by Rose.

Or you, I don't know whether you talked to her.

I don't see it.

Do you want to make a Wednesday night?

Tuesday?

Oh, Wednesday.

For Wednesday night, there are two problems.

There's a press club dinner, which they have to... And secondly...

You'd get a North Vietnamese reaction before you'd have your story out.

Well, that will take them out, because if you speak on Tuesday night, they won't really get it until Wednesday morning.

They can't respond until they get instructions from Hanoi.

And I don't think they'll be able to respond before Thursday.

Well, he'll get it.

He'll get it.

But he thought it was, it was a terrific, it's beyond, this is a dramatic thing.

Tremendous impact.

provides hope, et cetera, with regard to the war, the prisoners, peace, et cetera.

See, that's a different point.

Well, I think it shows that we are positive.

It shows we have a program.

And, well, it gets on once again.

Well, many have said that we shouldn't be happy.

We have to...

I saw Musty on television yesterday.

He said we would have offered a withdrawal for a deadline last year already.

So what does this mean?

What does that mean?

We did it.

What's he going to say now?

He did what he said he would have done.

So where is he now?

Now he's going to have to go back and say, well, I haven't done more than that.

Or else he's going to have to say, well, he did just the right thing.

We didn't do anything.

Well, we did later.

Here.

Later.

The first thing we did is we agreed to a deadline, provided they would agree to a withdrawal.

I said, if you tell me that you will release the prisoners and you will have the ceasefire, I will give you a deadline.

And that the deadline will be the first item on the agenda and nothing else will be discussed.

That's like giving them a deadline.

And they turned it down.

Then we gave them a deadline.

And then they gave us a deadline.

Then we gave them a deadline anyway.

In August.

Yeah.

And then we gave them a shorter one in October.

Seven months one in October.

Seven and six now.

and i will take the position in my speech this is a proposal it is fair i agree it is i wouldn't say it's been turned down

or even in private.

Well, I'd say you've had two months.

They've had two months to study it now.

It's time for them to respond.

How's the Air Force doing?

Well, I think it's doing pretty well now on the trails.

One has to talk on the assumption that the airport is no good, right?

And that we just shouldn't...

They are inflicting, according to our indication, some very heavy casualties in Laos.

That's what I mean in northern Laos.

But they're doing fairly well on the trails because of the center system we now have established there.

And...

The major thing in the North is to gain time.

We can get through this dry season.

I mean, they still have to take Blanquia completely.

Let's come back to South Vietnam for a moment.

What about that?

A little story or something.

Mr. Jerry, the Washington Post wrote this line.

Although sons of bitches have a vested interest, the gloating in American setbacks is not to be believed.

It is, of course, a murderous problem for the South Vietnamese.

We have 500,000 Americans on whom they rely are getting out.

Much of our air force is getting out.

And the miracle is that they haven't disintegrated.

The miracle is that, of course, the South Vietnamese, if we could do

uh, and cut them out then.

On the other hand, uh, uh, two thousand, he got them good, I suppose, right?

So, uh, no, you can do that thing, but, but it's, uh, it's

If the South Vietnamese fight in the highlands, the North Vietnamese

Thank you.

The idea of a community large, large, and narrow.

It was an elective, elective, or a large, large, large.

It was an elective, elective,

Thank you.

Please, please, please, send us a letter.

Thank you.

All right.

I don't know what's going on here.

Thank you, fellas.

You're the real princess.

10 or 12 years old or something.

He said, well, did you know that the young man who leaked the secret papers to Jack Hennessey has been transferred to Seattle?

And John, you know, because there were other people that were guests there apparently, and John kind of laughed and said, you know, what do you think about it?

Her father is a Mormon who was in the Indian Embassy with this woman at that time.

And she's a pure coincidence.

She has to be a schoolmate of .

But the point is, this guy has told his family, and his daughter has seen

at the 10-year, 12-year-old level, this, and then Jody brought it up at the dinner table.

Of course, John laughed and said, well, you know, we did that, and we'll be transferring it to Seattle, and kind of brushed it off.

But the point is, there's the range of people who know is, well, first of all, they don't understand the transfer because it's all in papers.

He went faster than Matthews, wasn't he?

No.

That's the interesting thing.

That was the plan originally, and then as it did, what's the other story?

He went to, yeah, he went to the North West instead of the Midwest.

I could understand.

But it was his choice.

I think so, yeah.

Yeah, they gave him two options.

That puts him in the robins, it's true, isn't it?

Yeah.

I don't think so.

The only way to come out on it is that he's got to confess because we have no case against him right now.

We cannot prove it because we have no witness.

The only witness is Anderson.

See, that's the thing.

It's the most perfect service in the actual case.

And we know that he did it.

We know that he did it because nobody else could have done it.

He did that, and I'm the victim, and I'm the court of law.

We've got the evidence.

We've got witnesses that he took the papers.

I want to know what the hell we have done with the witnesses that he came in.

That's right.

Most people have forgotten about his papers.

I mean, what I meant is, everybody does that around here, they take papers off, they violate the security regulations.

The question is, the disclosure that we believe is wrong, and we cannot prove that.

That's our case, and so we've got to stay absolutely firm.

We can't prove it.

I don't think they, I don't think they're going to make a home version of that.

I know he wants to, but he couldn't bear it.

Well, he said, we don't think.

Well, he did.

I think that's a show of it.

But, yes, hey, I don't, I'm not, I'm not even going to be honest with you.

I'm sure it ain't the opposite.

That's how I believe it.

Then you will come out and this guy decides to be an astronaut.

And here, in this case, he would be an astronaut.

But, uh, but I understand that we have no indication of that at this point, do we?

I mean, can't, can't see any, well, God could have a consciousness and be as a Mormon and all that sort of stuff, isn't there?

Well, we have a perfect record of that respect, there's no question, I mean, and I,

And we're doing a responsible thing.

We have no case against what we're taking under close observation.

We also removed the cabinet.

Yeah.

No, I closed the office.

Because we, and here again the vector comes up, our line as we did it, because that was one of the places that we thought might have been a security leak.

They're taking every possibility, but they said, well, you're not sure.

We're not sure.

Well, here they moved all outside offices that were under our control.

Exactly.

Almost to me.

It's almost done.

The cost of it could be to believe that it didn't kill me.

First, I've been that smart.

Second, I could have done it for that reason.

I just cannot believe it.

But it should have been together.

He's a smart guy.

I don't think any of us could have done it better.

I think that on top of this, there is some other background going on on top of it that turns the significance of these.

Well, that's true.

That's true.

I've had an injury that speaks to this.

The back arm, you can tell that it goes on.

And it's been hanging with us.

But that's still, it's not going away from the back.

If you're pretty clear, it is.

It's like this.

Cardinal stuff, bring it on.

Very hard.

It shows you what the pentagon paper is.

The pentagon paper is named.

And the press, what really is running, we could demolish this in a number of ways.

One, the Washington Special Action Group is not a policy-making group.

It's an action group.

The typical procedure in a crisis is, for example, during the Jordan crisis, that you meet with the NSE in the morning.

and then the action group implement what you decide.

Right.

Second, a number of the things that you said, such as sneaking planes into Pakistan through Jordan, it's true we did it, but not through the action group.

So a lot of this thing is totally wrong and misleading.

We did offer a timetable to the Indians, but we didn't tell Keating because we didn't want him to blab.

So a lot of the facts where we are accused of lying or of trickiness, we could defend ourselves, but it would be

In everyone's judgment was, and I think it's probably right that I shouldn't defend myself, so I never, I haven't answered any of these things.

Well, don't be an archer.

I don't know.

I do not do it in America.

I do it in the United States.

It's always a question, actually, what's the story today, what's the story tomorrow, what's the story the next day.

To get back to the bureaucracy, the same, the attack, it will really be fundamentally on you and not on me, as subterfuge is.

And I'm afraid that there are going to be some matches during this election.

That is what worries me.

Because there's now no, no bar to it anymore.

Anderson, who is a scum, has become a hero.

He's moved to the editorial page as a result, and he's a hero.

The papers print anything.

The one way of handling it is to tell the bureaucracy behind it.

Oh, yeah.

Well, that's what we're going to do.

One way or another.

Well, actually, it's amazing, the White House and the foreign policy areas hasn't, I'm not saying it hasn't any other, but it's the one I know, hasn't really anything significant yet.

And every year, the way we avoided weeks on end, that was to avoid knowledge.

Taking the court thing, for example, was a very different feeling.

Well, that was the only way that many people were around here, right?

They had to admit it to the pendulum, right?

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Oh, wait, thanks.

Our panelist is asking, and I guess, I don't know whether you concur, but that you've taken a couple minutes to thank Ingersoll for accepting the Japan poster.

Are you meeting with Ingersoll now?

Yeah, he's waiting for me.

Well, has he accepted it?

Yes.

Of course, I'm a great fan of mine.

They want me to do it.

Is that his plan, your plan?

Yeah.

He was just coming in to see me.

He wanted to be assured that he could have that access to us.

All right, you go have a little talk with him now.

You're going to see him right now.

Yes.

And bring him right in here.

Okay.

I'll wait.

You take 15 minutes with him.

I'll take 15 minutes with him.

Yeah, you take the jewelry man and bring him in and send him to the business.

Yes, sir.

Let George come in, too.

George, hey, hey.

I'll get George.

Let him come in, too.

This is an old friend of his.

I'm going to do it.

You know, Bill called me home yesterday.

Yeah, in a sense, he received what he calls a peremptory memo in Manning, which I haven't seen, but I suppose I'm getting a copy of, that says that

that Henry's view was that all this did was reflect the understanding as to what we were going to do, how it was going to work, and that Bill advised ahead of time on any meetings he was going to have as to the objective and the talking points of anything related to Russians and Chinese, which is what Bill agreed to in meeting with John.

But Henry, by sending the note, all he's got to do is stand her up again.

And Bill's point here is, he says, I have orders from the president.

He says, I don't take this note from Henry.

The theory here is that the president has announced his policy.

The State Department carries it out.

The NSC is not supposed to be an operation.

It's just supposed to be a policy group.

He says, I don't mind checking with Henry, and Henry checks with me, but I am not going to take this instruction of notifying Henry what I'm doing.

I don't work for Kissinger.

And he says, so I will not do anything.

I haven't even noticed him, and so I talk to him personally.

And that's the problem.

He says on the mid-ease, for instance, the NFC is not involved in the mid-ease.

They're not supposed to be in operations.

And I'm handling that.

We've been doing it for three years, and it's worked very well.

And in answer to that, of course, the only reason it's worked well is because then he's been holding the beams in behind him.

And we kept it glued together, which meant it would breathe through.

than any appearances.

But if Senators know this is what we agreed on, if he doesn't say anything about the European shitbox, they will let me know anything.

This is because Henry goes into the presidential complaints, he gets his way.

I don't go into the presidential complaints, so I get left out.

He said, I'll be good.

He said, you know, Henry and the president worked this out together.

There's no reason why I should be kept out of things.

I agree the state has to be kept out, but the problem I have is that the president always says to me in front of me, I want Bill to know everything.

And then Henry doesn't tell me.

He said, no, this Israeli stuff, Bill sent me a batch of stuff, and they've been meeting in the ravine and not telling him.

And he said, the president knows all about this issue of scoffing.

He said, I haven't been listening to the president, giving me my orders as to what I'm supposed to do.

Our policy in the Middle East has been good.

I will not have Henry second guessing all the time.

I will keep the President fully advised that he wants to do it.

But the meetings I've been having this week, that we've been having, are pursuant to a directive from the President.

But, he says the problem here is that Henry doesn't keep me advised of anything at all, what he's doing.

I don't know anything about Russia or China trip, except about Al-Qaida the other day, and a few others.

Since I would disregard the instructions from Henry and I'm not working for Henry, the President says that he doesn't want me to know about Russia or something, then at least I know where I stand.

But when the President says I want Bill to know everything, then I expect to know everything without him screwing it up.

Now, my view is, well, but I think, I think we've got to fix it.

And I don't, I don't necessarily think that one really brings the issues of ADE.

I have told Bill to keep working on ADE, and I'm here for ADE, because I've got ADE in Rihanna, Detroit.

And we've been playing through ADEs there for the last year.

Now, the present time, I don't know,

I think you're going to talk a little longer, that's all.

There's a problem.

I met with Ravine this morning.

and he's just come from the meeting with state or yesterday he met with us at 11 45 and rogers talked to me right after i mean he didn't tell me that he still has but a memorandum regarding negotiations and told them

But they're going to do something about it, and they schedule another meeting for today, for Monday.

And the Israeli cabinet met yesterday about this memorandum.

We've never seen a memorandum in hand.

So Henry did say in the same conversation, I want you to understand that I reviewed this whole situation carefully, and I've concluded that I can leave because of the country and the President, I have to say.

that Henry keeps the President in point, but it's very good he keeps the President in

And it is a matter of whether Henry will tell you or you will tell Henry.

But Henry is the president's tank, and he is not a department and operating a separate department.

The MSC is not a department of the government the way the State Department is.

It's a staff facility for the president.

And I went through all this stuff, you know, we've all here made this very good impression on the lab, but there is a difference.

Now, Andrew's got another one where he's trying to get a study on the European Security Conference.

I mean, Rogers explained that he has exclusive jurisdiction.

He will not put it into the NSC, and he says it has to be because it's a negotiation that he could have signed.

But Rogers won't give him anything to do with that.

So, yeah, we're rocking the security.

Yes.

But the problem there is he keeps going back, you know, don't give me that stuff.

I had to get my instructions from the person.

I had my own secret, then I'll see the person.

He told me he wants me to do this, you know, all the time.

I mean, all the other things.

I mean, I was just, you know, a year and a half ago, and I told you, you know, it's not even very scary.

But every discussion in front of me, you know, I have to take it away from me.

Well, one basic policy that Rogers operates on, which is, he goes back to when he first came into office, is that the MSP has nothing to do with operations, that it's supposed to be a policy body, but not an operating body.

Now, there was some rumbling of that theory in the early days, but it rapidly changed like about an hour after he got involved.

and he excluded us to pretend that.

I think that ought to be built in the budget.

It isn't whether it operates.

And it's the intention of the president's both policy making and policy implementation.

And Senator St. Wessig is totally an operating body.

It is the policy body of all.

You can carry it off then.

Well, my view is to talk to Mitchell about this, and I think on this one, we've got to put it to Bill, to assert that we've got to make it a point to Bill that he does have to keep you posted.

And if he keeps you posted, do you think he wants to tell you otherwise?

Well, it's hard to do that.

He doesn't trust you to get it to me.

there has to be

I agree with you in principle.

I have a feeling, I don't know anything about it, I haven't seen the memorandum, but it might be your trying to get a memorandum that wasn't written to him.

That makes some rather tough remarks about detergent pros and a lot of other things.

That's good.

I think they just won't do it.

We've got to cut it down and try for other verbs and kind of anything like that.

I'm sorry, Rose.

I'm sorry that Rose didn't give it to him because I asked Rose for a copy of it.

And she said no, that he was sitting up to give it to her.

And he didn't give me one.

And I'm sure she would do the same thing with it.

I can't tell you what Sapphire was supposed to be doing, but that's fine.

But I don't think he would have given anything up.

Because I would guess Bill did.

Bill did.

So I said, I'm muscled.

I think he did pretty good.

I think I'm muscled.

Well, I think I'm going to hear it.

I think I'm going to hear it.

Well, on bill here, I still think that it can come.

And there's sometimes a direct way to do these things.

There's one of those, and God named some to you.

God gave all of you.

And he was going to confess anything.

All right, Mr. God named me into that.

I have got to see everything that he's doing wrong.

Now, I'm going to show you what's got to really fix up for the fact of telling him about the Jews.

There's a political team here that we must not allow, we must not force our hand too hard at this point and choose, you know what I mean?

Now that's got to be put to Bill Hart.

And Mitch has got to put that in political terms.

Not getting the state totally out of the right and wrong, but in the areas of the rich, because we're now a political leader and that means that

that we want to keep them.

We've got to avoid a confrontation with the Israeli.

You know, it's not going to be a total thing that they have, unfortunately, on China's Russian trip, because he's not going to be in one of those.

I know you want to do it indirectly.

I don't see how you can do it a little bit indirectly.

And it just seems to me that John and I have got to say to him in a way that he understands what he is going to do.

His mind has got to be stopped when it comes to directory memos.

That's, yeah, that's got to stop.

But I have read some of his memorandums that come down whenever I talk.

But he says, you know what I mean, he'll come in, just based on almost a single statement, he'll go out and write a goddamn directory memo.

He's putting it all on me.

That's what he did, apparently, for what Bill said.

He said the person has ordered that.

or has directed that, all communications, that idea of the woman in Venice and all communications and all that, which was his way of moving to what a rather subtle plane that Mitchell and I had set up that he might have held together if he hadn't smashed it with a sledgehammer.

That's exactly what he did.

He smashed it with a sledgehammer.

He wanted to make it crawl.

That's what he was trying to do.

I think that must be it.

Because you would have gotten to that false, sated face.

And that's what he was doing.

He was making it crawl.

And his memorandums are always that way.

That's why I'm going to, you know, I may have had to send more of it myself.

Thank you.

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

I would say that this one is for you to have one of the best.

I've heard of Hoover Village.

I've already heard of it.

I've been meeting the office for a while.

I've heard of Hoover Village.

I've heard of it.

It was called Hoover's Fallout in 1928.

I didn't know it was in 1928.

It was the most magnificent embassy residence in the world at that time.

It was at the very beginning of the Christchurch.

So you've got to turn it.

It's still a nice building.

It might be a little nice.

Well, let me say that I didn't consider it.

No, no, we looked forward to it.

We decided to put the arm around it.

I wouldn't ask you, you wouldn't ask me to do it for all the cosmetics and all the rest of the beauty and that.

You don't want the surgery and all the rest of that stuff.

But what I want you to know is that if you're a fashion entertainer, either from Kansas or Belgium or an awful lot of other places like that, anybody would even ask you to go.

That's the main reason why you should go.

We're at it.

Well, I'm not personal.

I'm just a little appreciative of him.

He used to come to me when I was nine or his dad.

He was better than all of us.

I mean, my mom used to come to him.

He used to stay at the Michael Center, you know.

His father was always up there at first line.

He was my dad.

He was a very strong guy.

But, you know, I was surprised.

We were telling Mark when I found him.

You know, I told him every time I was going to meet him.

He was still there.

He's still there.

I believe it would improve your illness.

It would improve.

And, uh...

Uh, of course.

And, uh... We'll, uh... We'll meet at various times each other, of course, when I'm here.

Once you get 30% confirmation, I think you can come in for a talk, and we'll meet over at 7 p.m. Or at any time, uh...

So, uh...

I think we can do the counts, but, you know, by that time, the level of situation isn't going to have a problem.

What about, uh, telling the board at this time of day?

I hope I have that standard.

I should not have brought this to you.

I could have killed you.

Remember, Tokyo is a man's town.

Tokyo is a man's town.

I didn't call that.

Thank you.

Well, I don't know.

I think Bill's being, you know, small talk.

This is a lot of boys.

This is not their, I mean, this is a little better thing.

He's got a lot of sense.

He's been given reasons to.

And he has, now that's the problem with this all the way through.

He comes in one way or the other.

He's got a lot of sense about that thing.

What happened to that?

Did you ever talk with him?

What happened?

Did you ever talk with him?

He told me after the fact, you know, just before Rogers called me about having gotten me, he said, he said, I've, I've, he called me and directed, he said, I sent Rogers a directive that reflects our understanding.

And I've now told them that all communications have to be clear.

I said, gee, did you say have to be clear?

He said, well, yeah, right, you know, that we have to have the best of us on it.

And he said, I hope you'll back up the directive.

And I said, well, you know, we have a problem.

He said, well, if you don't mean to send in a directive, we have kind of an agreement here.

Then he gets a little upset.

He says, well, I know you guys are maneuvering around and trying to keep it.

Cosmetics on it and all that.

And that follows, he likes a nice flat, you know, pushing down on the ground.

He's always done something about it.

He's doing it all.

He's doing the thing that the Jews usually do.

He's humiliating.

What does that mean?

He can't humiliate Rogers.

Rogers is a proud man.

Now, the other thing, Rogers is, he would be a big enough man to know that we, the area singers, are Jewish friends.

and sort of say, well, God damn it, Henry, you can't treat me this way, but I'll report to the president, you know what I mean?

Now, Robert, when he talks about the Greenland, he's written around and so forth, of course.

So, if you could do anything, thank you.

I think Bill honestly believes in Henry.

because of his proactivity and bias, is not trustworthy.

And to be perfectly candid with you, I'm not sure either.

I just don't agree with what you get down to.

That is why Bill has been doing something.

He needs to be certain.

Well, you've done it all.

Yeah.

We had a problem.

You told Dave that you tried to knock him down.

We had to go in and get him around for some time, you know.

That's when we had Rogers, you know, work with him.

With Higgs.

Now, he didn't say that, because he was still playing with Ravine, and he still claims that he was keeping that patch together, because Ravine was really the real one, and he's behind the scenes, reassurance is that he was faking it.

How do we handle that?

That's the one.

That's the only reason I suggested about the procedure of having a private assembly.

Through you.

Well, we can do that better.

See, people don't like that.

We just don't know.

You know what I'm saying?

I understand this, but people don't like it.

Listen, everything that comes into this office, or any capitals, let me speak it up.

You know, I even have a memorandum from him.

Use all sorts of people who know.

I want to just present this to you.

There's all sorts of people, right?

I'm not going to introduce you.

I know.

I mean, he sees everything.

I've seen it.

It's probably...

I do the same thing, you know, he runs it.

And Henry will buy that, and he knows that I won't, you know, that you're not going to buy it.

That makes Rogers feel better to deliver it to me.

I mean, if you go privately to the president while you have it on, he'll show you, he'll say, this is, this is, this is the, that if you want to get anything, there's a little scent, and then if you need a rose, that's fine.

That's abandoned.

That's right.

That's completely out of the channels.

You should not get the education.

The team will ask you about that if you get the education on that one.

Security and personalization under the rules.

In other words, if they ask about that, why, why do you need to be under some check?

You have to do it that way.

Because we want to monitor our staff with that.

But we cannot have such a big matter go through here.

And if you go out of your space to go down the back or something, I don't think you'll do it.

I don't think it's very easy.

I think that's, I think it's very, that's why I think, that's why I compromise.

Because we're really moving the energy in a way that I think, like the hurricane security conference, I think we've got to face it down.

Like Charlie Diller, I can't even, God damn it, can't regard him yet.

What the hell is he doing?

He can't let him in all the time.

That's what I would say.

The European Security Conference is a matter of all matters to me.

He wants to know what we're going to discuss in the end.

We've got an European Security Conference.

It matters.

I discussed it at every meeting.

I discussed it at every one of these meetings.

Then Bill says I won't send it to the State of the World.

He said it depends good enough to say.

Is that right?

I don't know if that's what he said.

The defense section is an E. The second one, foreign policy, is an E. It's like, you know, you don't have the foreign policy section in the State of the Union.

But you have another policy that's been run around, but it's up with the other one.

But the other way you view it, the domestic part, too, they're relevant, but you have to jump foreign policy into anything.

Back in the, you know, last week, earlier, I guess, yeah.

But, uh, how are you people, because of what's done, now that Mark called, see, John, you've got to see the general thing.

I think there'll be a big nail on that, by the way, see, I was just going to enter, I'll enter, and he's going to show it to everybody.

Are you okay in the city, you know, is that, well, is that where you want it at this point?

Oh yeah, the Starhawks.

I'm just going to look at the Hawks fans now and get me to press that back.

Yeah, because I don't want that hand over me and I've got to get that really done properly.

But it was rather good in sections because we were trying to get two out because we got one earlier.

It was just bad.

There on Saturday, or in the district, we were out there partying around, riding around, hitting each other.

I mean, you guys, in the name of good God, it was that way at the beginning.

Everyone had a season, and we had this hellish fight with the state.

We're now at a point where both of them agree, the tension that John and I made to both of them, was that we've got a lot of problems, you've got differences, you don't meet at personal differences, you've got substantive differences, all that.

All of those have got to be subordinated to aiding the foreign policy and being the reelection.

And what we've got to do is hold this together and say here, and you just say this, and then you've got to do something here.

Then first I've got to know everything because it's a little bit of a problem and so forth.

He doesn't have confidence in you.

You understand?

I'm sorry, you're concerned.

And we will be informed of everything you need to be informed of.

There's no problem there.

The second point is that the European Security Council, in his opinion, what in the name of God is Bill taking?

Well, maybe, this may be one of our Henry's imaginations.

There may not be anything that Henry can do.

I don't know how Henry said it, but Henry made the point that Bill won't send it.

That basic paper is the way it is.

Well, God, I don't know.

Here's the security counter.

If you read that, it says, look, I am discussing four different meetings with four different kinds of people, a three.

And so if there was anything there, I had to know, but I had to rely on it.

I had to rely on the state and the NSC staff.

Always happens a lot.

I'm just reading, you know, about the best, not about the problems.

I mean, it's a very good scavenger.

It's a very good scavenger.

Of course, they've got terrible, terrible bodies and seizures.

You know, they're happy.

That's a very good scavenger.

We have nowhere else to go.

You see, a lot of these people don't like each other.

They're jealous of each other.

Their status is jealous and a lot of other things.

And we have done extremely well, I believe so.

But this one, however, is difficult because it moves into an area where I have to belong personally to a great degree.

And it's also being personal.

And also, it's vitally important to gain that.

To be perfectly frank with you, I don't have confidence, total confidence, in either Henry or Rogers.

I have some more than Henry in the Rockies because Henry is huge now.

Are we coming in recently?

the worst thing that could happen would be for the president at any time on any subject to have total confidence in any one individual.

And that's the worst thing he could possibly do.

And the problem with Henry is he doesn't function only as a staff guy who is chanting other people's sins into you.

He is also a protagonist himself and he tries to keep balance when he does a hell of a good job of that, I agree.

And here's where it builds up.

Here's where it builds up.

Because as I say, Henry Leonard Bale sent a state case in here.

And the layers.

I have every goddamn thing the layer ever sent over here.

It's terrible.

But I see it.

And I can see it.

I see it.

The other side of the coin is that

But if Hammerhead had his brothers, we would be totally at the mercy of Israel, and that would be wrong.

But as well, if we had done something more, you know, we would have had a ceasefire.

And W. Rogers' credit on that, God, you must remember, Hammerhead opposed the ceasefire, because that was wrong.

And then the opposed steps, which the captain had been predicting for, well, this big hang-up now is it's okay to want to talk about the airplanes, but they shouldn't be talking about negotiations.

We don't want them to be pushing.

And my understanding of that is, yeah, we've been pushing.

We hit negotiations every time we talk.

That's part of our standard line.

But I tell Henry's, let them talk about negotiations.

Just kind of choose to drag their feet until we get to the summit.

And it works somehow.

He knows they can do that.

He knows they will.

But he wants to, I think he wants to be in a position to control it.

Well, I may be wrong.

I may be wrong, maybe.

But I think you're gonna face too much of a problem, Bob, to tell Bill.

to send his communications on the Mideast through Henry to me.

Because I think Bill, honestly, feels that as a senator, Henry as a Jew, will not see it straight.

And incidentally, I think he may be right.

I think that Henry makes his communications sometimes.

I think it's very I want to watch

I want them to study it.

I'm going to layer it into the input and all the rest.

This idea of study operating, can you imagine this?

Both things must be around the same trip to service.

And when they're answering, they want to get into that part of the game.

Are you having a problem with that?

Oh yeah, we always did.

Unfortunately, they have to run this through China, so that's no problem.

Russia should, if they can, and expect them to stick with each other at Moscow.

That's it.

Is he pushing out again?

He's been very close to them in the meeting with Mitchell.

He didn't handle it that, and I just thought again, you know, if it's that way around, if that again, if the major comes back, or if the major comes back, if they want him to go to Moscow.

But what earthly use was considered?

Well, his argument is that what it serves is that the Russians feel that they have to have that because the Chinese have it.

That we would be downgrading them, at least to be the Chinese, if they don't get a passenger advance like the Chinese did.

And it's a terrible thing.

What?

What do you mean?

I mean, it is a burden on our lives.

I had parts that he didn't, you know, that was, that you had been consistent on that all along.

It was obvious that there was no basis for a high level of mansplaining in Moscow any more than there was to what many were parents who stayed out of the past year.

And right now I haven't decided not to resign.

I suppose what he would get convinced of this conversation really is.

Maybe.

Why?

Oh, I think he's doing a little better than I thought he was at first.

That's part of it.

And part of it is he's kind of sat down and commuted with himself a little bit, discovered that when he resigns he ain't much left of it.

He was supposed to have had a hard time with it.

He didn't go to the fight.

He probably didn't.

He did.

He told me that he'd do it.

That's good.

But to an absolute surface, you don't have options of resigning and not resigning.

You've got to stay here to this election.

So we're stuck with both of you.

And we've got to find a way to make it work.

You don't need to get on his rigor then right away.

Just let him bring it out.

Let him suck out.

But just say, I have not done all of it.

There's political reasons.

I hear the damn Jews right in here.

He doesn't prefer it all to Spain.

That's why I told him to go kiss my ass and not be getting political.

I told him to go to Michigan.

I told him to go to Michigan, but it's got to be done.

We are now running very, very, we need to end on this, not because of the votes, to make it clear, so the bill is smart enough to raise the question, but because of the influence, and not because of money, but because of the money we denied to others.

Not we want it for ourselves, but we denied to others.

It's really true.

We can play this game pretty well.

We can play a game that's just going all the way out on the other side.

They can go to the hands.

If you want to remember, they put up $8 million here because they were hungry in the last two days of the camp.

So I can't mention that to them, but the children said it.

And we're trying to avoid that.

We should just talk boldly to each other.

Now, this is going to be a pleasant conversation.

It's going to be interesting.

Well, he's pretty good at keeping it under the surface, which he's got to do.

Oh, that's right.

The reason you think, though, why do you keep things out of here?

Isn't the briefing the only place that we have any evidence of any of this?

I don't think there's anything else.

What the hell else does the State do that we care about?

Well, the briefing is.

The briefing has discharged Senator Wilder.

Did the Secretary of State meet with the Russian ambassador and ask him about the president first?

If what he's going to say is what his objectives are?

That's correct.

You should meet with him.

Henry tells me when he meets with him and I don't know.

And that's Henry's point.

Henry says, I have never been with the Russian ambassador, previously telling the press why I'm meeting with him and what I expect to cover with him.

Roger should do the same.

And Roger's answer is, well, Henry doesn't tell me what he's meeting with.

It's a little different because you can answer back if you're not the person.

If you're right, you just let them get themselves in the way.

I'll tell them if I think it's proper.

Yeah, that's it.

And then, and then just, and then how you handle that with Henry, just say, you know, that's, that's it.

Just try to read it harder.

Before you say anything else, you'll see everything.

I'll let Mitchell tell, I won't, but Mitchell can tell that he didn't stand directed to do the work since we had it all patched together and then trying to knock it out of the ballpark again.

I can see now, you know, I don't see all of his directives, but, uh, he, uh, would you make a note to Al?

Al, whenever he sees a directing that he thinks is too abrasive, he's got to get it in the game.

You know, he's got to cool it down.

I bet Alan would have seen that.

You think he did?

I don't know.

You know what?

He's a rough rider, particularly whenever he pitches on top.

Correct?

John, you won't be a target analyst.

That's the political types.

He's got no problem with being a vet.

That's exactly what being a vet is.

He has to do this.

that we're wrong, basically, that Earl and Kissinger are wrong in their way of dealing with cabinet people in that he thinks we drive it too hard on the cabinet, and that we should make, that any cabinet officer should have the feeling that he has access to the president, that he can, that he doesn't have to go through a set, and that's the point I made to Congressman.

I'm not trying to get between you and the president on any of this.

I'm trying to be a tool for carrying out what you and the president want done, and working in your direction on it.

But,

He thinks that if he can't deal directly with it, that's why he argues that if you get the reorganization and got to eight capital officers instead of 12, and then got the right capital officers, if you have John Connolly's

You know, today, uh, George Holtz, George Holtz's and, uh, John Mitchell's house, the people that we're talking to, and they said, the kind of people you also, and I applaud him and Kevin, are people like Erlichman, and people like that.

Did you have an L.A. person?

And let me say L.A. person, right?

Did you try and deal with a person who meant his view, and said, what you ought to do then is make an undersecretary for each department to run it.

and make the cabinet officers actually your executive vice presidents and bring them all over the EOB and set up a row of offices on the first floor of the EOB where all the captains sit.

And then you deal with the government and have them deal with your White House staff and have a cabinet back there.

Pretty much so.

And eliminate the kids and peers in New York and deal with them directly.

I must say though about one thing we do have to do.

The urban operating is good.

It's good because he handles a lot of very difficult things.

It's good given the capital that you have.

The funny answer is that it's not the best system.

The best system would be to have two or three others like him in the cabin that he could be able to handle on the urban operation and the likes of John Lee and Colby.

Frankly, Morton is really, really good.

and saying they are not capable of really putting it in.

Now, on the other hand, the Gisler operation is not ahead due to the fact that he sold, well, and you know, to the British and it's personal, that he personally

The humiliants, members of the camp, the humiliants, the lairs, the military rockets, and any of these guys went wrong.

And we don't think they're personally malignant.

And that's what we're talking about.

I mean, they didn't do this.

And worse than even Adam, you know, because he's got the Jew regime, which is, well, plus he is rational.

Adam's apparently at least talked to him.

Actually, he was very proud of him.

He at least was Charlie's son.

Always full of voice.

Henry's not.

Henry, there are times when there's just, you know, he gets up and walks out of the room.

He's like, please don't walk out until we finish.

He slams it open.

It's frustrating itself to try to deal with somebody who hangs up on you on the phone and walks out of your room.

Yeah, yeah.

It sure does.

It helps to read what other people have gone through.

People laugh at you.

People have tantrums.

They have tantrums.

They act like children.

They cry.

I do think Bill has been, Bill, in his way, by not bringing things up, has been fine.

He knows the personal burdens in the office.

But he has been totally goddamn difficult in terms of trying to work things out, and totally blind in terms of his own department.

And he knows damn well that they should, he just can't help but know it can't be.

Has there ever been anything out of the state, out of the White House staff, or the NSP staff, or out of any district, in any word, in one line, anywhere, in Brandon?

a criticism of the secretary or the state department or the state bureaucracy.

Yet every day in those three years, somewhere in the press, there's been at least one, usually ten,

references of some kind, of a high state department official or something of that sort, who has been critical of the president, of the administration's policy, of the White House, and of many other states in the United States.

In fact, this is an inflexible law.

That's the way it is.

There is never a day goes by that we don't get shot at from over there, and there has never been a shot from here yet.

And that is a reality you've got to deal with.

And he said, well, that may be true.

He said, I guess it is.

But I know what these press people tell me about what they're saying over there about us.

I said, well, it's very strange that they never print a line of that, and they print all that lineage from the other side.

The press people are saddened.

Of course.

And that is an unanswerable argument.

Part of it is a problem.

That's what it's all about.

He loves that presence.

Yeah.

He's very sensitive.

He reads everything.

We also have to realize that as far as this political judgment, PR judgment, has been applied to his own activities, it has been a massive failure.

He would be the last one to hear that.

And I hear it here and here.

And he's got to know it.

He was in control of the country and saying, do you know who the Secretary of State is?

And he's strong, weak, and so forth.

And in the world, he's well-liked, but not considered being profound.

Serious man.

And he can't blame that on Kissinger and the NSC, because had he played his cards differently, he could have capitalized on Kissinger and the NSC, and Conrad was a very smart man, taking credit for everything they did.

Just a dull chance to take a credit for everything the NSC did.

And that's the way we started.

If Rogers had been inflexible and infallible, supposedly the way Henry is, and had learned that, well, he can do his homework, you would have never had Henry out briefly, because Bill could have done it, which he would have rather have done.

But he wouldn't have done it, Bob.

Because Bill didn't have his heart, for example, no, he did not have his heart.

That's right.

But that's his fault.

That was his fault.

But I think there was a problem.

We came down to it.

What the hell?

I had to do the November 3rd thing, which was the first thing.

I had to do it pretty much by myself.

When it worked, and they all started, and they all came on, but it's very interesting.

And in all these times, I had to get up and hit the ball first.

I think that's not very interesting.

No, it's not very interesting.

But Bill, because of his pathetic desire to be liked, and not to be on the wrong side,

Yeah, because he's a god damn attractive person.

And he really is.

Yeah.

People like him, don't they?

On television.

Yeah.

When he has conviction, he does a good job of it.

Yeah.

He does a good job.

I mean, he's not dumb.

Everyone says he's dumb.

He's wrong.

He is a creative, intellectual giant.

But he's very sharp, very sharp.

And he's hard-spoken.

He's lazy.

He doesn't work hard most of the time.

But when he does, he's lazy.

I thought that.

Well, no, this is lazy reading.

He's not interested in the background, the strategy, the plot.

He's not interested in the plot.

He always gets tired of being a patient.

He says, well, that's it.

That's what we do.

It's not lazy.

It's the patient.

Yeah.

I just need to reassure him that we're going to work this damn thing out.

We've got to talk to him again.

Now, on the other hand, you're talking about putting Henry Rogers.

I do think they should have put it to Henry.

Now, don't say that Henry is going to get away with this idea that Rogers is off the reservation and that you and Rogers are going to do that.

You see, Henry's the kind of person to tell that to.

He would think he was going to take Rogers from him.

He's not going to want to get away with that now.

I think that John could start having a talk with him and say, I don't think we need to do this stuff.

I think he is.

Let me talk to him before we talk.

Yeah.

And I suppose that Peterson's probably going to come in on this council business of his, and I assume Connelly wouldn't buy that either because

And in fact, it puts, it takes over the board.

Councilman Mark.

Well, they've got to hand it back.

That's right.

Well, I don't know if you've got another image.

Also, we did some digital technology stuff like that before you see the part.

So you can get all the tracks.

Well, with what we've said, let me say it again.

And we spent a lot of time animating staff and people.

We had a lot of great honors in general.

And we couldn't be just be thankful today.

I think Anderson has been over a year and served his initiation period.

He'll be a better cabinet officer.

He'll work with staff when he's up.

Do you understand?

I mean, he had miracles that he could go through that never will, but he was willing to get a part of it.

You know, he was getting rid of one, if I can see what I did.

Let me make one final thing.

Here's a good Bible for any man.

The way he is abused

and serves for his services.

But because it gives it, it also has a big amount of all of its medications and grave problems we need to have, which is not great.

Great problems are possible when we are in our captivity.

Amen.

Yeah.

who the suspect is and that's probably .

So what does it look like?

That's what I ask.

What does it look like if he did, if he crept, spirited around the town, right?

How do you think he turned the other way?

I'm gonna start a little bit wrong this morning.

We have the suspect.

We have certain standards of evidence.

We don't have a case.

We don't have a case,

He said he was trying to deal with the fact that he had violence in his service.

I believe that somebody, I don't think we can do it, even if the board, if any, on this market, somebody was thinking the case of Anderson wants to be prosecuted.

Right here.

And that's me pushing this in order to do that.

I see exactly why.

Thank you.

Yeah.

He said that on Saturday when he came up to me, he said, you know what?

The idea that he was beating them.

The idea that he was under attack.

with no, nobody defending him.

Now, that's gotta be 10 to 10 and a half, I mean, the fight is, you know, what is, we need a regular information.

Well, specifically, you suggested, did you suggest that we actually, you know, heard that that would be appropriate?

Right.

Well, if you want to, that's what we need to do.

All right, here, this is what I said.

Okay.