Conversation 652-013

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Come on over here and sit down.

Well, it's great to see you.

I'm so glad that you came back.

You took your journey again.

It's all over the office here, you know.

And, you know, it requires you as much as it does us.

That's what I've always felt.

The general was asking me.

about the servicemen and, uh, like I said, their morale, their spirit, their dedication, their self-prosperity, whatever you want to call it.

That's the story.

Yes.

Yes, so it is.

Would you like a drink or a coffee or a Coca-Cola or an ice tea?

Well, I'm not going to keep it unless you want to.

That's fine.

That's what I'm going to keep.

I was a wonderful artist, if you like.

I mean, the voice stream, you watched some of it, didn't you?

What?

Mr. Preston.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, she wrote some very beautiful, happy, and relaxed first models.

I was on the table before the wonderful dress, the black dress, you know, the...

I'll sit here for you.

We're gonna wrap it up here, gentlemen.

Thank you.

and it is a job I have to do.

I know that you can play it at home, but I don't think you can play it at home.

I'm sorry.

And then I cut out the rest of the trust, you see?

And he said to a reason that I'm scared he did.

He said to one, the one that I asked him about, he said, you see, he said he didn't ask me.

He said, I don't want to hear it.

Well, now, on that situation, let me ask you a couple of questions about...

Well, don't.

As a matter of words, my feeling in this situation is that I've improved considerably.

And yes, I think that's a step in terms of prevention, education, and treatment.

Great discussion.

That's very good.

And I think that's going to turn around there.

But in any case, what we have to keep in mind is that

Each year, you'll have another man coming from a very society hit with a bomb.

You know what I'm saying?

But we don't approve of it.

And of course, in the areas of around Japan, where they'd be very busy, and we don't have a problem.

Because when they're out in the field, and when they're in the off-hours, they call it a fight.

And it's a very good fear for us.

You've got one young man, he's there with the other young man, and you don't have a problem.

So it's fine.

Yes, it was much better than I thought it would be.

It wasn't the past year.

You hear so much now.

I said, after a while, you hear so much.

It's all over now.

He's the last man to die.

Yes, of course.

You didn't run into that much of that.

Or maybe they would have chosen a little more.

Well, no.

Generally, I'd seen him, and he was, he told me that was a concern, to keep everybody on their toes, so they couldn't help you more.

So I made a point to look at this, and I went around.

Sure.

And I did not see it until, I think, the minute he came in, I'm more concerned about it.

And some of the youngsters sometimes, you know, I see people worry, but I think if they're concerned about it, you know, they're on the watch for it.

The youngsters, of course, are typical American youngsters, especially in this day and age.

You might ask another question.

All right, well, yes, thank you.

And at the end of it, he'll say that now, that's wrong, that's not the issue.

Now, if you young men, if any of you have been raised by this war, you tell me, we'll use your way.

Say, oh, say, oh, now, these supermen are little sons.

But we didn't have that little discussion with them.

They got to be, got to be like, once dead old.

And to a man, I told him all the day, and I can sense it from him, the young men all the day today, better than the poor, the poor like you, sir.

You see, we're going to have to have young men in our peace and our forces for many, many years to come.

We're going to have them in Korea and in Japan.

in the U.S. and Europe, and actually in the United States and other bases around.

And they've got to be proud of that uniform.

They've got to realize that it's worth doing.

You know, servicemen of each kind, they're not out there and being ready for the battles.

Much more difficult with the service of war.

But you remember, it was the difference between Rear Area and World War II.

I remember Rear Area, the duty was horrible, I thought.

I mean, not right now.

I would pray for that, but I hated it.

I was a comedian, and I hated it.

And when we got up and walked out, he said, I thought, well, it's dangerous.

And I said, gee whiz, why did I come here?

It was so much better.

Oh, wasn't it?

Oh, that actually changed, too.

The whole spirit of the church.

You sit down.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

But the spirit really is much, much better than before.

And the people of South Vietnam, and I can see it just from the local folks too, they're showing confidence and hope for the future in terms of not only the farming, the housing, building.

I saw a school being built.

I saw a seminary being built up in the night.

Three buildings built in the local vision building.

What was your analysis of the classification?

I have heard one thing I hear from many others, and don't let me leave, and answer, and, you know, really.

What I've heard is that South Vietnam is just doing so much better, and that that never gets across to Vietnam, so much good for this place, you know.

I think that this, each year, you can see the progress.

You can see that in South Vietnam now.

That's a sign from the military.

Yes.

The difference is the signs of self-help, the signs of...

I think that the destination seems to be

really, there's a word right there, and that's the way to push, and that's the way to do it.

And I, well, I felt in terms of responding, I know the making of it, but I think that this is the way to go.

And I think that this is, this should be able to... And how, if you could do this, you know,

And we're so, it's become hard as far as the military disengagement.

We, it is done and we, the organization is what it has to be called.

But that's not coming to an end.

We're down to 59,000 in the mail.

But why don't we now find

It's something that is great.

You know, the people of this country were behind the big Turkish aid program.

They were behind the Marshall Plan.

They're behind the Alliance for Progress.

Now, I thought they ought to be behind helping the people of Indochina and even North Vietnam if they ever quit.

Help them.

develop, right?

I think that even the total piece can be for that.

I mean, absolutely.

That's your point.

That's my point.

You have to find a way to say a programmer's self, you know, something like the Sons of Marshall Plan.

It has to be a handout.

It has to be self-help.

A partnership for development.

One of the things to indicate that is the fact that this year we have a surplus of remiss in South Vietnam.

First year.

Well, no one knows that.

But that tells a lot of stuff.

In a country that has a million, 200,000 people in Iran.

And a lot of the countries would have a ban on all the citizens.

If they were afraid.

If they were afraid, they would turn back on them.

Well, the whole thing has changed.

and roads, et cetera, et cetera.

They still have them.

And there's still a lot of .

But you know, another thing that has not come across is that while our cabins are running as high as 300 meters, they did it three years ago, are now less than 10.

What is this required to run on?

It means that they just put a 10 degree would be applied this week as it was last year.

And by the way, what day is this?

There's a good thing about today.

What I'm getting at is some of these guys are down, too.

They're approximately in half of what they were last year.

They're going to get a bump.

It means an army of these guys are going to get shot.

What's your opinion on how those people are going to be interested?

Do you think that some of these can handle it?

What about you?

I don't know.

I don't think there's going to be a spectacular event.

Let's be honest.

Most of you are trying to look at it.

Not trying to look at it.

No, I think we ought to get out.

We don't have to have any men.

There may not even be a loss.

They ain't got to put a shell on them.

They're going for something.

Yeah, but they don't get out.

I was reading last...

reading last night the JoJo of Tanager.

And, you know, everybody thinks of that great historic battle of the Eastern Front, the impact that it had.

And the way the battle really came about was the Russians had thought they had won the cinematic battle of Guggenheim before.

And it had virtually standoff, but the Germans retreated.

Probably out of fear they shouldn't, but they did, and it was the best thing that ever happened.

The Germans retreated.

The Russians came in, and the Germans surrounded them, captured 200,000, and the Russians never recovered morale.

But it was accidental, so you don't even get to see.

Well, in a sense, while we didn't plan it that way, the battle at Hull, which was a great victory, we didn't plan it that way.

They, and they just knocked our brains out for a while, and then passed into the movement, right?

Cut them off, and then they were finished.

So I have to say what I think is, you won't get into the worship, but...

Let me say one thing, and I don't want to get you involved in it again.

Naturally, I was distressed, mainly because I have such respect for the group and the statement of the Catholic bishops.

Distressed by it because I felt they may have concluded this, you know, as it was meant to be for those men, people who led terribly.

We really weren't trying to do everything we could to end the war, negotiate with the honorable end, get the thing over with, and so forth and so on.

I mean, we all know that, who knows whether war should ever start at the beginning.

Who knows whether there's any war in this just?

I don't know.

That has been certainly legislated.

That's not the law.

There's a legislator who would argue that point.

But then the question comes, their point, which I am of the very top, was that this war had reached the point where it no longer served a useful purpose.

So that brings me back to the point.

It has served a useful purpose.

I'm not sure.

The point is that maybe it has reached that point, but then...

When you talk about peace, it takes two to make it.

So we quit.

We quit, Bonnie.

Our quitting would mean not only our getting out of it, which we will do, but it would mean cutting off all aid stuff even now.

Stopping our interest in Russia.

Then what happens?

The enemy doesn't quit.

I think what the state missed was the fact that there are 85,000 North Vietnamese in Laos.

there are 50,000 non-Vietnamese in Cambodia.

Now, these are the countries that are different ethnically and every other way from Vietnamese, so they're in majors.

And there are, of course, 100,000 or so in South Vietnam, in biology, of the 54 accords.

And they are on the offensive.

In every one of these areas, the Laotians, the Cambodians, and the South Vietnamese are simply defending themselves.

Let's begin with the proposition that war is wrong.

Would we not also agree, though, that if war is wrong, that the use of war for the purpose of bringing another nation or people into captivity is also wrong?

If war is wrong, if you're attacked, is there not only a right

I hope that you know what's going to happen.

It's going to happen now.

It is going to happen now.

It's going to happen to me.

It's fortunate.

I think it's going to happen.

But we could not stand by after so many South Vietnamese had committed themselves to fighting against the communists.

And we were to say, ah, it's over.

What would have happened is, what happened

It would happen with the bandits.

What happened in 1954, when they started the death of Jacob and Hank, remember, said, when they started the death of Hank, we know they slaughtered 50,000.

And what's going to happen to those 1,200,000 that are fighting?

They're going to kill them.

That's the way they are.

They're going to murder vicious people.

And so that my feeling about all of this, that's why we are hanging on.

And God knows we've looked at God.

First, we'd like peace.

We like it because we hate to have killing and all, but we've got to get out of a way that does not leave those people in a way that they invite a massacre.

That's really the problem I see here.

There are those who say, well, the only reason I'm rich at this point is because, basically, there are a lot of Catholics in South Vietnam and this and that.

That's true, a lot of Catholics.

But they're people.

They're people.

Part of one of the reasons they'd be knocked off is because they are people.

And it's wrong to allow those people to be just, you know, that's my view.

You're absolutely right.

So I'd like you to, I hope you understand, that's why I was sticking around, not because I didn't make it in order.

And I disagree as to how it was thought.

I think we could have gotten over it off-center by using that car parking.

But I think now, the United States has got to get it the right way.

See, that's my opinion.

You have to do that.

Here's what happened.

I opposed this statement for the past 40 years.

I know.

I was able to keep the statement.

This is just going through.

Of course, I know.

This is all that happened now.

This time, they just had a statement prepared.

It was just a small group, a small group, but very intense, not getting in their way.

And what they were pushing for was the media data to grow.

They made a lot of moves, and all that happened, and then it happened.

They had this thing already, so between ourselves, I got out.

All of the immediate withdrawal, all the unilateral things, not going to the South, got it down to where it was down to that if you took anything outside, they wouldn't have made it to the Pacific.

And they even had something in there that there was a warning for.

So, the actual statement

did not in any way go against what you were doing.

The actual state of the matter, what you were doing, did that, did not.

But then those folks who still got in front of the press and twisted around, have you seen the actual state?

Let me say, I don't think I have.

Let me say, let me say, let me say, what concerned me, what concerned me,

I just wanted the people that you know, I know what you have done, but I just don't want good, decent people.

And that's all.

I don't want, you know, you remember how hard, I mean,

Ernest Owen, he was pretty good, you know, black and white, all that sort of thing.

But basically, that's what I'm talking about.

Who knows who was right?

But I do know that I don't want these decent people to make a terrible mistake.

The mistake was not made.

I think what happened was the communication, two or three men, who I can't vouch for what it is that they did, and the thing is,

They got in front of a camera and twisted it around.

Because he was in the press panel.

In the press panel, they didn't doubt it.

I bet they didn't hear our statement.

But sometimes I would like to send you a statement, which, by the way, I still have questions about.

But that statement was not even personal.

They were going to be able to approve.

I was concerned.

As far as I am concerned, I respect my duty, my goodness, and that's it.

Whatever it is, and even what you heard, some of those that went beyond faith are nothing compared to what Michael and Quaker did.

Wow!

I mean, it has to be every day.

But I just don't want sound people to get all in the wrong thing.

We owe you that support, John.

And that's why we are kind of the way.

We're standing on the right, on the floor.

And I've got these bold people in my job.

And I said just that.

You know, I told myself this day, it's not a good time to be praying.

Because they wanted to go, and I said, look now, we're not going to have a vote, and if you have a vote, we're not going to sign it, so you've got to change it.

You know, and I got to sleep on it.

You know, since I got that, I mean, I had seen three times.

Yes, sir.

Oh, yes.

Oh, by the way, Dick Berlin was there.

Dick?

He's in Roseville Hospital for an operation.

Oh, I see.

Yes, for a while.

Now, it isn't anything immediate.

It's a concern.

But it would have been something after a few years from now they decided they were going to end the job.

So that's why the president had invited some accountants, I don't know.

Why?

But he said he got to the dinner for the readers' access.

So all the talk shows are made for the party.

Now, earlier in the year, and it rolls off.

Yes.

Would you have me Mr. Richard Burland?

He's in the Roosevelt Hospital in New York City.

Roosevelt Hospital.

Hello.

I heard that through my hand-to-hand game on the plane, so I go up and stand.

Those operators are so good.

They will get a lot of them.

He's a great guy.

Well, let me say that I am going to... You're going to see some developments on this, aren't you?

But it's the, this will be the year of this long purchase.

Now one of the problems we've got, what I think you should know, as you all know, I have to keep passionate.

I've got to keep stroking Vietnam as long as they have us work on the prisoners.

I feel that this generation of peace that you've said a few times is ostrich.

And that was one of the reasons I stopped in Bethlehem and all the events of peace.

Did you know that, Mr. Eggman?

Sure thing.

Had you been there before?

I had never been there before.

I remember.

Well, I was there, so I wrote a mess right in the shape of a seal, a message to the Lord about the highest and the peace of Earth, you know, and you will remember it.

You're in the peace of Earth at that point, because a lot of our hopes were right, quite right with you.

So I didn't want to leave, but... You know how we will, what I want to do now is the point of your turn.

on the China trip, because there are going to be a lot of questions from a lot of our good friends who are very concerned, as I am, deeply about this study.

But I want to, if Lord Henry

Oh, yeah.

All right.

And I feel that Russia will also do.

I think you should agree.

You're about to know that as we talk, as I said in that speech today, as I go to these places, no one in this world recognizes more.

We have a great difference.

And those differences will continue.

But the secret of peace in the next 25 years will depend on our ability to talk about their interests and fight about their interests.

Absolutely.

I was speaking to some of your friends in New York.

You're right.

They're worried.

I said, given the president that he is, doing all these places, and he knows exactly, you know, what to do.

We have an answer now, huh?

Okay.

Well, I guess you can't thank them, but we'll try to see if we can do it again.

I'll try.

Tell them to operate a study without a nurse.

Ah, I'll throw that out.

I'll leave it to you.

That's right.

I have a few things I want to suggest before I leave.

I visited also, John, and I saw the refugees.

And I think, you know, a wonderful job to be judged by the voluntary agencies.

But you know, this is something that you .

I don't know.

We are still, we are still committing, we have to, I want you all to know, we're still standing on this cruise with the U.S. and the United Nations.

But we're, fortunately, we're doing more than all the rest of the world and the United Nations.

Even us, we have to be certain.

And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and.

I was able to do $11 million worth of help and most of that stuff.

I'm trying to get this out.

Well, actually, we're going to help you today.

Provide us with help.

Give us more help.

That's America's tradition.

I think there might be some occasion where this could be .

It would be a very good thing, you know, for that.

The other point that I was trying to pose is question the desperate situation of the non-public schools.

And this is a very difficult one, you know.

And you mentioned one time a school a day closing, and now two schools a day closing.

So, what we've been talking about is the survival of it.

And now you, and Martin, and the setting of that commission, and Charlie, and Hal, now I know you're going to give a final report in more life, but I can say this.

Yes, if something could be done now for two reasons.

If some small thing could be done, just to give hope, and then a little type of

What would you suggest?

You see, there's the committee.

First of all, of course, we've got this long range plan we're looking into.

Yeah, that's right.

Which is not any less.

Now, if that moves, if we move on that, and we can't tell at this point whether we can do it from a tax point of view, we could move.

That will provide a very great assistance, very great assistance.

to non-profit schools.

Now, the other thing, of course, is the idea of tax credit.

My point is, what can we do now?

I mean, we can come up with things, but I'm all for it.

I don't think so.

Right, right.

After school, you're wrong.

Do you know what I mean?

My point is this, that if this tax credit could be done even the most modest way, the most modest, and if it could be worked in such a way that the bank, the public has a lot of the non-public, the public, in a sense, when you have a public school, you have little expenses.

Let me ask you, do you understand what we ask for the tax credit now?

It won't be taxed right away.

Well, what I think you ought to do is talk to Tom.

And, uh...

in terms of saying, well, could we buy off part of the problem?

Now, you understand, let me say, I have already made, basically, the command to say that we're going to help.

The question is, I'm trying to get something that will get help in time, as soon as it runs on.

And the best plan is the...

is the last bid program.

In other words, if I choose to have a substitute for the property tax, that would mean that we would then provide just direct assistance.

Direct assistance.

That's part of it.

I think you're doing a good job.

But I think that your point is if you give a tax credit now, I know it's going to kick around.

Yes, all right.

Not legislated.

Well, that's the thing.

There's a place to vote in there, down the road to get the paper, and then you've got it.

The thing is this, that if even legislatively it was possible, and I can see the problems there, it's worth a try.

Tell me what you do.

You talk to Connolly.

And if, after having seen what we could do, we also heard, you know, this and that, then to see whether we could make, I see his point.

In other words, what, in other words, let's just talk about the church for a moment.

All right.

Basically, you have to be realistic.

That I would not want to vote out the hope that the Congress is going to pass a tax bill in the next two or three months.

They will not vote.

They have too much on their plate.

They've got revenue sharing.

They've got a health program.

They've got the gold and the rest.

All that has to go through ways and means.

So that's, I've got to be very honest with you.

If you believe that the administration and the key would give hope, we need to take a look at that and see.

This is probably the best way, at least the current stage of thinking, to do the...

the money that would be generated in the big plan, the private school thing, the unit attachment, seems to be the one that has the best chance.

Accelerate the McElroy committee's report on this space.

We do have this.

Second point out is, you know, we have this space.

All right, fine.

Well, let's go.

Then the other thing is, talk to Conn. Then the other thing that I think is that if we, as he thinks about it, maybe Parnell Cook...

You arranged a private meeting between Connie and yourself, you and I.

Because you understand that you, I mean, I don't think, I just think it's good that we get promised, due to the asking, support for the operation.

I have, as people tell you, I have spoken to this stick several times because of my own belief in it.

But I want the experts to tell you.

You know how I met him just once.

You know, I worked with him in New York sometime.

I want this down to a doctor, but let's say it looked like a pure, you know, playing at a church, you know, I don't know if it has any purpose.

But let me say, I think we can do something.

I think we can do something, but I want to do it honestly.

And I think you're talking to me, and I feel like that's, you're reasonable.

Let's see.

Or you have another thought.

No, I didn't get it right.

I didn't get it right.

I'm not sure.

He'll be in New York by the end of the year.

Anything I'm doing, I can't do.

I think it's better to go to the 50th Street.

You can.

Well, sir, he can have my house.

He can have my house.

Let me say this.

If he could talk to him about this, I think it would be helpful.

Now, see, where this wouldn't help us, too, as Presidents, there's no particular hope.

But, see, we would like to, on a grassroots basis, Chair, encourage the idea of how you would be storing full confidence in the private sector.

And this would be helpful.

I don't see them doing that unless we know what we're doing.

So I think that that's what's important.

Now, another thing is, too, we legislatively, it seems impossible, but only America is going to say,

the pluralism in education in America anyway.

So maybe legislatively, if this was proper, we could take America.

I believe in America.

I'll try to grab probably dinner tonight.

I personally believe there won't be much time for talk.

But if I do, if he goes, I think you are with him.

Because you understand the problem.

And can, you know, can read him on it.

Because he's so busy that he is not trying to think about it.

I can work on a few other things.

The international one.

Yeah, that's true.

He'll do what I say.

But you've got to commonly understand, he is the most powerful voice in this cabinet.

He is a real powerful person.

And I think you two should know each other very well.

Yes, sir.

Sure.

Well, the idea is, just with your encouragement and your leadership,

If we two are able to go around and try to, in another unit, just tell Conley about two schools that they were supposed to go to, two schools that they were supposed to go to, and two schools that they were supposed to go to, if you don't think Pearl's education is going to survive, I know.

I know.

I am so distressed.

I just think that the values go far beyond the school.

I think children, they think of a marriage, and some of the values, I think, would be schools.

I think it would just work further.

Let me tell you, I told her, I told her, I told her,

I've been to Russia.

I've been to Romania.

I've been to Hungary.

I've been to Poland.

I've been to Czechoslovakia.

I've seen children in schools in every one of those countries.

And we just don't want it that way here.

Now, what does this mean when I say that the public education is not relevant?

I'm saying that any education that is totally in control of the state is not what I want for this country.

And that's what that is.

And that is exactly what, Mr. President, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

That's it.

And the idea is, how strong do we feel that way?

Are we willing to sacrifice?

By the way, we'll do everything we can.

But I think the way things are shaking up with inflation and education, of course, we cannot do it completely alone.

We'd like to do both of them all very nicely.

I know you would.

I am utterly convinced that character is more important than brains.

Yeah.

I was saying, you know, a person with a brand new lot of character has the deadest sense of pride and inheritance.

And he's a dangerous man.

So you keep the character.

We'll keep trying that.

It's a boy.

Yeah.

We're going to, I think, before the end of the term, before the end of the year,

By the end of the year, July, August, we're going to get all these reports that we're going to have a package that will stick to this stuff very effectively.

But you need something to support them to now, I see your comment.

We do just give hope.

That's it.

And if there's something, as Peter says, on that track that is constitutionally sound, that can be raised, if they've not raised it to something else, even if it did get through.

See, most constitutions have their own goal.

They've got it from justice.

They've got it from the Justice Department.

Justice?

Oh, they have to be in court.

Well, no.

You want to hear him say it?

No, no, no.

He could be this way or that way.

We don't want a breakfast.

Yeah, that's it.

Breakfast?

Yeah.

If you open this.

Now, I tell you that, he's tough and strong.

Sure.

I'm intelligent.

He'd be all right on this issue.

Totally.

I don't think he's the captain.

No.

Well, why is the record of the District of the Constitution lawyer?

He knows the court.

It's a pretty good song.

All right on this issue.

It adds.

It's wrong.

I think it adds.

You know, we know you're telling the truth.

They have gone off by a pain in the ass, but we have to live with it for a while.

Not too long.

That's good.

Now look, I want you to let me know when the next visitor is.

You know it well.

Thank you, General.

All right.

I'm sorry to keep you so long.

It was a long day.

Don't worry about that.

But we congratulate you on taking the best and can I thank you with the Lord's blessing.

No, keep, keep, keep the way you are.

You never said you looked better than the same thing you dressed in any of the previous ones.

You see, you belong to all of us.

We're the same kind of people.

And I know you do this and that, but unless they look at it wrong, they don't know why you look better.

All right.

General, I'm saying that we can be might and proud of our young men over there.

And that, in each of those times, is the drawdown, as they call it, on that side of the water, you know.

But I really felt, from personal conversations with the young men, and also for the men, for the men in command, who were so concerned about that, more concerned than their fathers at home, I'm sure, that we are coming into a time that's much, much more improved over what was a few years ago in terms of the event.

What they commit, I said, to the president with the problems of society.

They can't be invited to the homes from which they come.

The towns from which they come.

The schools from which they come.

I think the military is doing, aside from taking care of the difficult situation, they're doing quite a job of education for the future.

Thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

I had to go to a general and I thought, very dear friend of ours, sit over here.

You're a hell of a gentleman to sit here.

Yeah, that's... Harold Humphrey was in on it.

And that was one of our chartered marches, if you probably remember him.

So, go to him.

I'll let you say it.

I remember his backyard and everything.

I didn't know he had a, you know, he was quite a captain.

He didn't have the slightest idea, of course, that he was dead.

But you were talking about Roger Morton.

But I was your representative.

But I thought you should both be gone.

And I told him, when I saw him, I said, forget it.

Well, he represented you, and I wasn't following your character.

Yeah.

He's not to read.

That's what I'm saying.

Well, he had a good life, and he enjoyed life.

It was just, well, I saw him about three weeks ago.

Sure.

It's all right to take cancer so many times.

He just didn't know.

What type did he have?

I remember that we had a party over here.

I could see that he was kind of sitting there.

I mean, you could tell.

You could almost tell.

Yeah.

Well, I thought that it would be useful if we had a little talk here about Indonesia.

I know that you and Mel have probably discussed it.

Yes, sir, we have.

But I just wanted to get my own view about it.

And so that you could tell us the heart of what you saw.

That you would talk to me as well as to Mel.

So that we know exactly what the issue is.

First of all, there is, and you must be clearly aware of this, I think our ambassador, Eric Alpert, understands where we stand on this.

Whether he does or doesn't, he's a good man.

If he doesn't, that's fine, because there is a difference of opinion.

There are those conventional state departments that have stands.

In my view, I believe that Indonesia's survival

requires a military security program to handle their general security.

Also, I believe that it's hard to be a military man, and being a responsible and stable man, that he needs a reasonable amount of support in order to retain the power.

There was 1,000 miles of islands, there were 130

and to tell them that they're just going to be there, learn to grow rice, make the pack, eat or go eat whatever it is, did not.

They have got to have a military in this attitude.

Police, that great big place.

This is the so-called base of the doctor.

And it's secure as a farm.

We're going to help them help themselves.

That's why this program, which is a lawsuit for $30 million, I think it's a good program.

I think we naturally need to ask for more support.

We have a lot of help.

I'm going to give you another conversation.

But I believe we're deeply acknowledged.

The other reason that your trip, I think, is very important at this time is that it gives you a chance to reassure us more with regard to our continuing interest in and presence in South Asia and Southeast Asia.

As we've completely acknowledged, we're going to retain our interest in Indonesia.

He can tell on us.

We're his friends.

We believe it's vitally important that we're not getting out of that part of the world.

You can also indicate to him, obviously, too, that our trip to mainland China should in no way be interpreted as lessening our interest in our friends in Asia, but it's really an indication of a greater interest in a sense, because we're simply moving to the heart of the trouble.

But we are still detaining our close friendships and so forth, and we will keep them.

We will naturally keep them.

Most of it about everything that happens.

And his interest will not stop him.

There are very certain chances that we'll be walking backwards through any kind of channel system.

But I think it would be an interest with regard to his country.

But I think about everything else, the idea that he has here,

that this country, that he has the secretary and all those here, at least this administration, that he has understanding, he has support, that the United States is a friend that he can count on, that we consider Indonesia to be the keystone of, frankly,

The future of that part of the world, when we compare the population, the resources of Indonesia with all of them, and China, and Thailand, and all the rest, you know, it's the big prize.

That's what the old man's war was about.

I think I had it.

I had it.

To the right.

I mean, the confidence was there was an Indonesian.

They were restrained against the Indian.

Now, you know that better than anybody.

But a union, you can be very, very, as I say, you have to support the commune.

You can talk to the commune.

How much trouble do you have with the last time?

Well, we had some trouble because we had to cut back in order to keep up fully funding Cambodia.

So we cut it back to about $16 million when we get through.

But we have some excess to do what we can.

And we are helping on that consortium thing, too, because they're very heavy.

Connelly moved to his economy down there.

You can tell Connelly was an armistice in the rest of the United States.

He had us so hard on him.

Connelly came back.

He wheeled about $20 million or so from some of the Indian Navy over to the Indonesian consortium that we've got, or whatever it is that helps.

So that's an indication of our good faith.

Well, that's one place we're helping the military in a very good way.

That's a big thing.

Sure, you betcha I will.

That military, that place is the conscience today.

Right.

And we all train.

That's really one investment that was enormously important to the United States.

I don't think for one moment that it all just happened.

I hope that you all know what that's are.

I'm just as close as I can get to a consort as Soothsay or the Witch-Dragon and the Doctor and all that.

Not this era.

But the other thing that I think is important about this is this finale.

And you could, you ought to erase this so I can talk about the Chiefs.

We have, I raised this point in front of, it's not considered to be as balanced as it was, but I want our military to be more aggressive.

than it has been in terms of military sales around the world.

And that includes Latin America.

I mean, I consider it to be a disgrace for us to allow the ranking to rest itself in Latin American countries.

I mean, we sell them to them in the main, and one of the reasons is it isn't the same in that house.

But it's the fact that with the sale,

It goes to training.

It goes to everything else.

It goes to strength.

And also, I should just end there, baby.

And the other thing I was going to say is that we ought to talk, I think, too, as you know, on the Latin American proposition.

I am very strongly for you to play our close very friends down there.

Now, people can say, well, look at Peru.

Well, so you look at Peru.

But...

But if we had perhaps more influence from the Chilean Armed Forces, my ending might not be there.

It makes a lot of sense.

Well, that's all right.

We'll talk about it.

Just do it.

But the point that I make is, as you know, I feel quite differently from conventional listeners on that.

I know you do, too.

You're talking to the followers of the teaching.

No.

We're, we, let's, uh, we wish we could have a full-brown man doing the rest and raised all the strength in church, but we are going to see to it that in this period as we, as we are reducing our presence around the world, that we stay in the business of providing

arms, support, and so forth, for regimes around the world, for maintaining some military strength.

You see, the question is, if a government is based on any kind of military support, it is, by definition, thereby a bad government.

And, of course,

The truth is that sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's good.

But if the government is solely civilian, without a military, if you are not person, person statistics, can many times be worse.

And also one of them is you have no influence.

Right?

If it's not me right now, it's mysterious.

Probably.

Yeah, he bought her a delegation room.

Play all you can.

I think that we talked about this once before, but I want to see that the Army and the Air Force, let's have the greatest possible contact around the world.

I know that, I know that, again, they say, well, it was a great test chase, but that's what they do.

We know very well what they do.

They go to parties and the rest, but they don't have a lot of the associative of people.

We are friends.

No, no, no, no.

They make friends.

And you don't learn from voters.

And those are, well, voters, who is aggressive, imaginative, ruthless.

And I just really feel that

Let's start playing these things a little bit more that way.

It must be good news.

My guest, Mr. President, I've just had my guest for two weeks in the United States, the commander of the Venture Oil Company.

And they're very frustrated.

I think he's terrible.

We buy all their oil in the world where they buy stuff from France.

And they have a pretty good price system.

And, uh, they, uh, they like, like the most of them.

That's right.

Because it's about the change of policy.

Now, I think a good case in point is Bolivia.

We've got Manny Banzar, who is a personal friend of mine, and, uh, very well, who is now president of, uh, Bolivia.

He's the president.

Yes.

They need a stream of military assistance.

We're giving them cuts only.

As a matter of fact, I heard that you were very concerned about the rate of delivery of the small amounts of men given, and I think it's time to accelerate that.

And the Department, I didn't refer to you in the Secretary, but it's a good case to understand that they're friendly to us.

He's definitely on our side.

And I think we should demonstrate that he's our friend by giving him something extra, which he wants.

We have had a problem with this limitation.

We've had it from $75,000 to $120,000.

We shouldn't have a limitation on it.

We can do it ourselves.

This is a health limitation that we have resolved.

Well, it was put in by Fulbright and Church, and I think about four or five years ago, we shouldn't have it again.

You see, the idea was that they put that in, and these people used it on us.

purposes.

Because what they've done is gone out of God's hands.

And even the Russians for the first time are now there showing names and showing other Russians, which was unheard of six or seven years ago.

Well, you know, the whole story of India is a case of whatever it's worth.

And you know, our India was three quarters of a billion last year.

Perhaps it's going to be in the leading of the year for all of India.

Not military, but the Russians.

They went out and sent $1,300 of stuff from the Russians to the military.

And we'd have been better off to have done something for our military.

That's what I'm talking about.

Exactly.

Let's try to, let's work on this.

I know you can do it, can't you?

Because I know the political problem.

And this is something we should just do.

Don't talk about it.

I'm just going to calm about it.

I feel very strong as I look at the world.

The United States has got to support some part of the military on the ground.

Mr. President, tell us, Congresswoman, can I ask you to address the sales of the now-hanging-off-that-proper General Sigis?

Best name?

General Sigis.

He's Mexican, ma'am.

And, well, tell us about it.

Rightly, we don't have to be very aggressive in sales.

If we can pay a third of it.

If we can get that war out of them.

If the Indians want it out of them.

And I just did it a year ago.

The Indians, they said they were much before they had a lot to share their Russian equipment.

That's right.

But what we've got to do is to do something about this congressional petition because, Mr. President, this is interfering with the implementation of your doctrine.

Could you in a very serious way, now, could you get a paper together and send it over to Al?

And I understand this will have to go through the NSC system because it would be a hell of a fight to stay.

But I don't want to see a paper on this.

When I say a paper, I want to see the strongest possible case to make to get that implementation off there.

And that's, I think we'll need to screw it up.

Screw it up, screw it up, screw it up.

But you take the leadership on it, will you?

And then you, I know how, I know how you do it, of course, but the important thing is that we're not so, well, important, I mean, the question is that that department, of course, will, because they, they, they, they got the need for a relations committee.

Well, anyway.

Thank you for your time.

I'll see you tonight.

You're going to be there, right?

Yeah.

Good luck.

President, I was truly not happy.

Oh, well, thank you.

Thank you.

You were there, right?

Yes, sir.

Oh, yeah.

I hope down there, they're all going to come.

Great.

I wish you well.

I'd love to be going.

I'm in a very warm spot in my heart for Indonesia.

You know, they're very poor, but most importantly,

Yes, they are.

Well, I've got a lot of friends there.

More good people.

I know some articles.

I also know some people.

We have a man sitting down there.

Very pleasant man.

Very good man.

Yes.

He is hardworking.

It's all right.

I know.

I also know some of you.

They sit down.

Yes.

Well, well, oh, I hope these persons be anonymous.

They don't remember who we gave them.

They're not, man.

Oh, well, they're going to...

I'll be seeing a few, and I'll be seeing ten, all of them.

I'm going to Udorn, which is just across the Maynard.

And Pastor Godfrey is going to meet me at Udorn.

Do your best to see that it doesn't fall over.

Thank you.