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I don't know.

The post is a horrendous problem for NBC, because they've got a two-hour special that they've been putting a lot of deep promotion on.

They're just going to have to work around it.

Now, take a look around at this.

Too bad, what the hell can you do?

There is the thing, this is, you know, that's the kind of thing, there's some problem at any time, every time.

There is, yeah, I mean, they're just, you know, if you go at midnight or something.

Yeah, midnight or something.

Yes, you're right, it works out well for everybody.

I don't think he's going into the details with him.

All of them may happen by now.

I don't want to run into what he knows or doesn't know, but Henry is out on a lot of scullies.

Yeah, he's, he's, uh, he thinks Scully is an ally in the State Department.

Is there really something there?

Well, it's because Scully, Ms. Rogers, is a good man and says so, actually.

And, uh, that would mean that Scully's not smart enough.

Well, subtle enough to know.

That's right.

level too much with Scali, because I don't want him to get into any particular quotable knowledge of internal strife, because I think he's got to figure he is going to write a book someday, and there's some stuff there that serves no useful historical purpose, even.

No, if you were a writer.

So I just, I don't feel like it's stressing his psychological problems at all.

Like, I don't want to, I don't like to talk to him about energy weaknesses, which, if I could, I could get, I think I could get him straightened out.

I think we still can.

I don't think Scully's as far off the track as Henry Hicks is.

Oh, I think he is.

All right.

But John is a, he's excitable, and he does just raise questions that are, should be raised.

He doesn't, you know, he is not, basically, Henry's a damn sensitive man, and Henry doesn't realize you've got to get around him, and you can't bomb him all the time.

That's it.

Well, Henry takes questions as a personal challenge.

And every time you start raising one on Gregor, he starts raising the problems that have come up on the Hill.

Henry Gregor is off.

Gregor is at the end, hitting Henry or something.

Heck no.

He says, he says, I mean, he always looked over.

He said, well, I'm on Gregor.

I mean, it depends.

If it's anybody, anybody who ever raises the subject, which is the mayor, the White House staff people and so forth, they don't fight.

They're there.

They want to make peace and that's what I'm talking about.

People can disagree with him without being, you know, and without being disloyal.

They may be wrong.

They're not disloyal.

He could be wrong.

Well, he doesn't recognize how positive he is.

He's better than he was before.

Yeah.

Yeah?

What happened to him?

I guess maybe we'll talk about that.

He did.

I told him when he just had to come in.

He laid on the line.

I said, you're home.

Oh, I take it back.

Well, I guess it's telling Scali that we're going to use him.

I think we'll tell Scali in the file.

Is there anything more we need to do with regard to what we can do?

Tell the staff in the file.

The other PR people, spokesman Tyson.

Scali isn't going to go run off and tell a network and give them a slew of goddamn things.

I don't think so.

Not on that kind of thing.

I can see when Henry says Scali leaves, I'm sure that Scali gives what he thinks is valuable and probably is back to network people.

That's what he's supposed to be doing, moving around, pumping lines into people and that kind of stuff.

And in the process of doing that, he has undoubtedly said some things that are uncomfortable.

No, no, they weren't set for release at some particular point.

He works to build his credibility and all that kind of stuff.

Like everybody else, he likes to know something before anyone else does.

But I don't think when you get to a secret, we had him in on a lot of things well ahead of time that he didn't.

We've got it in Chinese now, Andy.

We're starting to think, well, maybe Scully's putting all this stuff out in China.

I shouldn't, I shouldn't hear it.

Scully didn't see any of the newspaper men over there.

And he, you know, you've got to hold it quick.

See if the Chinese are real.

They've got themselves, you know, on the gas curbs there.

Yeah.

If I was on there, I wouldn't put on it.

said in a speech last night to some young Republicans that he was sure the President was going to cancel opera seats, having an opera withdrawal for 15 days against prisoner in prison.

I wonder what he thinks of this.

I don't know.

He has to.

I mean, can't he just talk?

No, well, I don't think so.

From the way Henry talks, his energy goes off.

That's terrible, but...

Listen, I haven't talked to Brooks in prior states, so who does he think he is?

I bet he has.

Now, he thinks that maybe someone at defense, because apparently Brooks A.A., who is his neighbor, has lines into, well, the point, the reason he thinks that they come out of defense also is that it's a false story, and

And if they don't know, it relates to that Murray martyr story last week, which Laird was concerned about and talked to Henry about.

So Henry just suspected Laird all alone.

And Henry thinks Laird wrote the martyr story.

No, but Laird reacted to the martyr story.

He thinks the martyr story was speculation, that Laird may have vetted some or something.

And then there's, you know, Henry reads all these tea leaves.

You know, it doesn't make a goddamn difference.

No, it takes a little of the HR that built up today.

In the long haul, it makes zero difference.

How much did it make?

It got a fair play on the radio.

That's what I mean.

And it'll get some play on TV.

What will happen is that it will somewhat divert the tone of the announcement that you're going on tonight, because it will end up going two and two together.

It broke what he was talking about.

And if that's what you're going to do, that's the only answer, is that it sets up a line of speculation.

There has to be speculation on your speech, and this will direct the speculation that way, which is unfortunate in a sense, because it, in a way, goes beyond what you're going to do tonight.

And therefore, you'll look like you're doing less than what the speculation will do.

On the other hand, the speculation is going to get that far.

I don't think we were just talking about it, whether we should try to shoot it down and decide we should.

Oh, God, no.

Then you get into the, well, there's nothing to do with that.

There's nothing to do with this.

Also, they'll say, well, you shot it down, and you did it, and then you did it.

And you're trying to do this, and you're trying to be honest, and you're trying to lie.

There's nothing in any speculation so far on any of the big stuff, like the secret meetings, or like the two-step down and untruths that have come out.

So, we have this bob about every time, go on, on anything.

It's always nice.

And a tenon, you can get that right.

And the lawyer comes by and says, he says, don't assume that the broken is going to get that much blood.

You just don't assume it is.

Pretty good story.

Well, that is the major story.

You know, it's just an item, because that's the thing.

We're so tuned in that, that we jump at those things, that people hear that stuff all the time.

There's another senator calling for a trip withdrawal for prisoners.

I've heard some senators have been doing that every hour on the count of the months.

Yeah.

We should talk about this.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to have to do.

What a genius.

Climbing the wall, undisturbed, and getting his breathing work done on my end.

He hit it.

I wanted to take my side.

I loved the patient.

I did not hurt him.

What a good time, by the way.

I had to go back and clear this office for the TV.

His son stayed there and he worked around the house.

No, they don't have to start dancing.

They don't have to start until probably around 5 o'clock, but it's better to let them have more time than they need.

And they don't rush and bust lights and all that.

Sure.

No, I don't believe in that.

That's not my problem.

I just wonder.

Now, I don't know whether they, you had told Folsom last night you wanted to see Scanlon.

I don't know whether I talked to him about it already.

Has he done it?

No, we're not going to do it today.

Oh, because I don't want to do it today.

I told him.

Because today, I can't wait to see him.

I told him.

I said, actually, good.

You work it out in time.

Because Scanlon's in town.

The other thing, you said, you know, you can take some time if you want to do anything.

The one thing that, if you want to take a few minutes to do today, would be to see Finch.

who is leaving for California to try and get the... Well, to get his decision decided on whether to go for that.

Probably working on it.

And he's torn, as he always is, trying to figure out which is better for you, which works out better and all that.

The Smith thing, yeah.

The large thing is not...

The court went the other way on that.

The court approved the legislature's redistricting for this year only on the basis that there wasn't time to change it.

Now it gives us two sure Republican seats and two sure Democratic seats in one toss-up out of five new seats.

That's not bad when you consider it was a Democratic legislature that did it.

Our hope, of course, was if we went for a large, that we could go for all five seats and win with a slug.

On the other hand, if it's only for this year, it's for this election, and then they have to redo it.

And the reason, the court's basis was that there wasn't time before the primary to redistrict and they'd throw the thing in chaos.

They had to go with this plan.

Very good decision.

Well, it's an assumption.

A pragmatic decision for a court, isn't it?

He did it on the basis of what needed to be done for a change.

But his thing on the Smith seat is, what he's trying to weigh is the question of whether he does you more good by bouncing around here making speeches in Castlevania and New York, or by getting out there.

His argument going out there is that he wants the primaries behind him, which only takes him out of play for a couple months.

He can co-sum in on the general election.

In other words, he could do both.

He could get out and campaign part of the time and be in the district part of the time.

And he could build himself as a national figure, accomplishment, a man who will provide leadership.

Who in the district is that safe as an employee?

It's just an overwhelming .

He could tone that, depending on his Democratic opponent, and see whether he had any problem.

But the presumption would be that he could do whatever he wanted to do.

He, of course, isn't interested in being in the Congress.

But he also is looking at the problem of if he doesn't go to the Congress, if he stays here and campaigns this year, then after the election, what becomes of it?

he has to go back then to California.

He'd have to go back, get a job, which he can do, make some money, which would not be a bad idea for a year or two, and then get ready to go for the Senate.

But that kind of thought frustrates him, too, and I think from getting ready to run for the Senate, he's better off to be a congressman.

He also sees that he could provide some leadership for you in the House, that he could be an unusual freshman congressman, which he very well could.

And...

Well, also, don't be greedy.

You have to look at it from his standpoint, too.

He said, who knows what one individual does running around the country.

He is effective.

He is good.

It's over.

But I'm inclined to think that, I'm inclined to think it is not that important.

I'm inclined to think that you've got to put basically his interest in this thing.

That's what I also, I think he didn't do both.

I kind of think that coming in and coming out of this as a candidate for Congress in California, then he could be headed to big states and big appearances rather than party around the little stuff.

How does that sound to you?

Is that possible?

I think that's right.

I think he can, just for his own sanity and everything, I just think he ought to get the hell out of here, get into a campaign all the way,

He's going to be frustrated.

Bob isn't able just to go around and make speeches.

He's got to get into what's going on, and he's going to agonize over all this stuff.

In that thing, he's got a legitimate reason for being in California, which solves his problem with Reagan, too.

He's going to talk with Reagan tomorrow about this.

It's his understanding that Reagan definitely does not want to go for the Senate.

And Bob is going to commit to him that if Reagan does want to go for the Senate, he can have it go.

Bob will lay low and not go for the presidential seat.

He'll wait and go for Taney.

If Reagan won.

In other words, he's not going to fight Reagan.

He's going to go play with it.

He would like to be, before he goes out there trying to mock this up, that he's talked with you about it.

Of course he feels that he should.

Of course.

That he should do what you want him to do.

I'm calling.

He's in good shape.

He's not in his usual, that sort of, you know, he goes out in that agony of indecision business.

He's not, doesn't seem to be.

He seems to be quite, which encourages me to think he ought to run.

He seems to be quite positive.

He's a little worried about the money-making problem in Ontario, I guess.

So Congress can answer that if they make money.

He'd probably be afraid to go into the Senate, I guess.

I think he'd be afraid to get himself into anything that they could throw on him.

A couple years.

Because he'll start running for the Senate in the beginning, since he gets elected.

But he can do that.

He can become a leader of the Republicans in Congress the day you arrive on the floor.

That's true.

So, by and by.

He ought to do it for himself this time.

I started to say that, and to say that, you know, the speech making is going to make that much difference, and I figured I should carry that to him, because that makes him think like he is.

Isn't important, and that is true, because the speech making is valuable.

He has an access to a constituency that we don't have enough people that can reach it.

But how Bob's speeches don't get covered.

That's the real problem.

And they aren't going to.

They don't do that.

And they aren't going to.

He just, uh... What are you saying?

It's the guy's guy.

Wait.

You have a real problem.

He can't do this.

He just can't recover now.

Only if he kicks somebody.

And Bob will never do it.

I just saw one kick him.

He said, we won't recover.

And he won't.

I mean, Bob, he'd be, you know, he'd go to Dartmouth and give an inspiring speech to the college youth and, uh...

There'll be one of the linemen in the newspaper in New Hampshire about to have the end.

And you'll never know here that he was gone.

Hell, he's been bouncing around and speaking.

Has he?

Yeah.

And you don't see one blip in his time.

And you won't.

Never have.

Of course, it's an interesting thing, Bob.

You see Dan Rowland and sorry about the other guy about you, too.

Commonly mentioned, as you know, I haven't seen Volpe, Romney, Richardson once when he took back Kennedy.

Volpe did all right in the opening.

He didn't have a chance to get a three-game.

He had guns for one day.

But I know they have cover speeches.

They're out all the time.

They don't get covered.

Morton gets very little.

He got coverage from Glenn and Julie.

You know, that helps a bit.

But that's maturity to me, doesn't it?

I guess you get everybody hypoed up and

But for that reason, all Bob's really going to do for you in campaigning is about what his reach is personally.

Plus a little bit about local television, which does sound good.

It does a lot of good.

You know, I made a note, and I read his news analysis today.

And it's really an excellent job.

It's an excellent job.

It's impressive.

It's an excellent job.

If you've got a problem, it's better to know.

And we do on the budget.

That's right.

Well, he's both a budget economist.

But also, I think that generally speaking, Pat, one of the things that's good that he's doing is he generally does what for real, you know, whatever it is he's doing.

He picks up on things that are particularly, he leaves it very hard in the conservators.

Homes of immigrants like this, human evangelists like this, and so forth and so on.

He is a little bit bent that way, but there's no problem there.

His budget story is, and we knew that, you know, he would be huge.

I would rather wait when I read his budget story,

In the regular news, I mean, I was surprised that Conley and Schultz got as much as they did.

And they did.

Or did they do rather well?

They sure did.

Conley was on, you know, he's just so damn good at voting.

He's there just pinging and throttling.

And he was on all three networks.

And Schultz got on a budget ceiling thing, yeah.

Actually, the last time I had to go out and vote, yes, sir, go on, 30.

I watched the TV last night, and Rahm was very much disturbed that I did it, because I said, Rahm, you're not going to do it.

Rahm is good that way.

He has to reach for the big story each time.

There are times, Bob, when there's no reason for me to associate with the story of Ed Luther.

That was your basis yesterday, and it was absolutely right.

on the tube last night, it was a, the budget story is a bad story, it is a bad story.

You think it's bad.

And it's one of those necessities.

Sure, sure it is.

And it's a hell of a lot better to let those other guys go out and get kicked around.

And Connie, fortunately, just completely buys that as contrast to the other cabinet guys.

And that's,

He buys the concept that when we get bad news, we should go out and feel it.

When we get good news, the president should go out and get credit for it.

That's exactly the opposite.

And so they both run to try and scoop the good news so that they feel like they did it.

And they crawl under their desks when the storm starts.

What's the White House going to say?

Jack.

We had the Andre Hunter.

Boy, it gets bad.

He walks right out there.

And that's what he did.

And he gains in the country enormously as a result of it.

He's building himself.

The show's gone by.

No budget story.

It's a bad one.

You know what?

Well, the bad one is the dam.

Actually, they say the 25 million debt deficit.

I don't think you have any real problem from that on.

And I didn't get that feeling out of the play.

What you have a problem from is the $38 to $40 billion deficit, the $38 to $48 billion deficit, and to accumulate this $87 billion in the biggest, you know what the problem is, only what happens.

Sure.

If the goddamn deficit is that the economy works, the deficit can be 800 million.

We don't make no difference.

If it doesn't work, then the deficit's a hell of an issue.

Now, that's as cold as that, sure.

So everybody just got to relax and recognize.

And I know that we didn't have, we tried to keep the deficit down.

And we also know Democrats, of course, spoke with mixed voices.

Some said we weren't spending enough for human resources.

Others said we weren't spending enough for defense.

Others say we ought to cut the fence.

They're both boys.

Now let's see what they want to do with us.

And none of them have a viable alternative.

Which is what you pointed out.

Who pointed out?

All the press has pointed that out.

The total void in a democratic alternative.

Let me suggest one thing.

I'm arguing for Colson, but perhaps you could, too.

There is a need for, and maybe Rumsfeld can police this or somebody, for everybody to follow the emanation and commonly doubt on the control thing.

You may remember when I asked the question on Rattery and all cracking and burbling out

And I said, let me just, no, let me put it the right way.

I said, we will keep controls on as long as they're necessary.

We'll keep them on as long as inflation is lit.

We'll take them off as soon as, that's it.

But right now, we're going to keep them on.

We're going to keep them on as long as it's lit, as long as it's necessary.

We can't say they're going to come off at any particular time.

This is now, basically, that's Connelly's line.

But there is a pull there.

It goes the other way, but...

But he's been pulled back.

You can't indicate that there was people still making statements or something?

No.

Maybe there's still the reaction to that.

In other words, Jackson has not taken the strong thing that the controls are going to stay here until the problem is solved.

There's almost maybe an overreaction.

to it, which is natural because we weren't sure which reactions would get out.

In other words, to try it, and Schultz understands this, to try it.

We went too far.

First of all, we went, you got my practice started.

Practice had to be on, and that would be controlled forever.

That's right.

So then we overreacted, in a sense, to that.

It got shot down from several points rather hard.

It's time.

I got some questions from Schultz, and, well, they were programmed.

They did what they were supposed to do.

I think so.

But the problem was they all succeeded.

Normally we don't all succeed.

Normally only one swing gets 30.

So then it was agreed that we had overshot the pendulum that way and we had to swing back the other way.

Now I think maybe we overshot it a little the other way, but it'll...

There aren't any ones you're aware of, and it's been run so well.

So let's be sure Connelly knows that we're trying to follow his.

See, he made it out of the cataclysm.

Now let's just all take the same lines here.

It's a very easy one, isn't it?

Yep.

We're going to keep control on as long as we need to.

What's the next question?

How long is that going to be?

Some of the problems left are we set a goal of 2.5% to 3% inflation.

When we see that that problem is left, then we'll get rid of the controls.

But until we do get that, we're going to keep them off.

Great.

Just hard as hell.

It's not a difficult question, is it?

I'm not sure you had a question by the press man, but I find that I refuse to be pushed.

I just get a lot of responses.

Well, maybe I'm overreacting to what they said here.

You've got to get under control of mine.

That's really impressive, the way, see, when Pat didn't have to do it in a hurry, so much in a hurry, he had it broken down subject by subject.

And it's just a hell of an impressive thing.

He's got a great gift.

A great gift, what do you agree?

Very much so.

People watching, people participating, twice a week, right?

But not once a day.

I mean, that way there's a price we can put it off.

Well, you need to step back on it.

Like some of the things that come and go, there's no point in worrying about it.

That's even true here.

He's trying to, I think we should cover a little too much here.

Could be.

And he, like race, that is, sure, we know that's an issue.

He's trying to get the campaign issues business in, too.

That is, I mark the lights on this one thing, though.

Huge one.

But the first page, the first paragraph, last sentence.

The second paragraph, last sentence.

Think it worked, sir?

That makes sense.

No, sir.

If I need to replace this one, is the least I'm sorry?

Yeah.

I just said, I'm not so sure.

Yeah.

And we can still replace it for one day.

But see, that's it.

He just, well, Pat is a barge messenger.

Well, he said, look at the paper.

That's right.

And he also knows that we take it kind of rapidly.

But what was your reaction?

I always assume that we never have anything more on our sleeve or that we don't have any initiatives of our own.

I know.

They really do.

It's like they were saying, you know, last year that, you know,

couldn't get any foreign policy positive story out of the top Vietnam.

So he went to Vietnam's China.

Nobody thought about that.

You couldn't possibly get the economic story turned around.

So he turned it around.

He played a part of it.

Yeah.

He turned the story around.

The story was that you were helpless and stuck with a downloaded plan.

He points out, which I think is true, that it's usually the case that the economic radicals are now mixing their bags up.

But...

That is partly their desperate effort of the left-wing economic writers to cut the economy down when they realize it's going up.

And, well, that's part of the standard approach of the economy writers, which is to always hedge, cover both sides.

Always, because they just, they have to.

Like a whole stock in trade, it's like a practice memorandum.

They had a really classic.

That's right.

Things weren't very good, but not as good as they look moderately good.

But on the other hand, what's your feeling about the thing I'm thinking of this Sunday?

God, I mean, he must be emotional, right?

on the fact that our China cripple, who has spent at least five billion dollars for his culinary spectacular, and then on George's presidency and so forth, he's a lot of fun.

His name on Christ is, because he doesn't even think the president ought to, he never said this when Kennedy was firing around the world, and that's not the thesis of his speech, that's the wrap-up.

The thesis is the problem that the Democrats, particularly Sue Jackson, have.

I'm trying to find a way to get attention.

and that Jack's not as bad when they're around and nobody even knows he exists, which is absolutely true.

He doesn't have anything to say that people want to hear.

Bob, how much attention did I get when I was out of the office?

That's exactly right.

It's exciting to hear every private investigator that Nixon was named ignored.

Yeah, put down a lot.

I think somebody ought to crack him on that.

Just to keep that.

Now look, Nixon was out of office for eight years.

And he traveled around the world alone with a briefcase.

And did Timeline ever cover it?

Did Annette ever cover it?

When he went up to the New Hampshire, he went by God by himself.

You know, we got coverage in New Hampshire.

We bought it.

We bought it and paid for it.

We got a little nasty coverage at that point, but only when they knew we were going to win the primary.

Right?

But you remember, prior to that time, we didn't get a goddamn thing.

That's the problem of a follow-up office.

But did anybody complain about Kennedy dominating the news when he had it?

Did anybody suggest that either Kennedy's or Johnson's news conferences, which were televised, sure, not always prime time, usually not, but televised, that we should have equal time for it?

Never.

Absolutely never.

Not one word.

The double stranger here is unbelievably shocking, isn't it?

You ought to talk to him sometime.

He's a lurper, a doggy dog.

He likes to eat fair and all that.

It's really a question of fairness, isn't it?

Do you think that's fair?

I may be wrong, but I think it will affect people, and I think that on the other hand, you've got to figure it out.

Well, in a way, no, I shouldn't say in a way, they inevitably are going to try to play the guy who's the underdog and the god of all this, but they probably shouldn't play me when I was out visiting.

Although they wrote stuff about the awesome power of the presidency and command the news and all that.

They wrote that to help me, as he's writing.

No, not to help you, but he is writing it now.

to help any other individual.

And he's right.

He sure is right to help you.

It can help to just frustrate the bejesus out of these people.

You're sitting here with all this stuff, and they know it's coming up, and the ability to use it.

They know it's coming up.

It has to be just terribly frustrating.

As we talked about, you're gonna be sloshing around in the engine the way you used to while you're over.

That's gonna make them mad the further they get pushed in that corner, the more they're gonna lie down.

They're bouncing.

This thing, tonight,

They're going to be wild and

Not because they don't believe it's the right thing to do, but because we did it.

It's not going to happen.

They're going to be wild, and they'll criticize the way we did it.

We said, yes, I know they're going to attack me.

They're going to use it to attack me.

I said, what do you mean?

Well, because we did this and I lied and this and that.

I didn't see the point.

I know.

Of course they'll attack anybody, but they're generally trying to attack me, right?

Absolutely.

But Henry was, but he didn't have those.

He's in good spirit about it.

He knows God that well.

He's prepared now.

The other one, he goes out as a backgrounder and reads the papers and iterations and slams it down because the people don't write it correctly.

Of course they're not going to write it correctly.

The son's pictures are out.

Screw us.

They aren't.

We're going to get...

That's why you have to do it with the television, guess what I mean?

And it's about our only hope.

It's the only go-back.

It's not so that the water and television press conferences do our Vietnam announcements from November 3rd to Cambodia, all that.

It shouldn't be Cambodia, but all the acts about that.

We know it's 57, 58 percent, all through that period, owned by Vietnam television.

Remember, I did a press conference, I did a statement, I did something for California, and we dominated the sense of vision.

The only time we didn't know, really, was last year.

Plus, we went at it a different way.

Plus, of course, it's a different problem.

Yeah, but I think we were wrong in the way we went at it.

I think regardless of the problem, you've got to do like you probably did on television and handle it.

Well, either I or somebody else like copied it on the budget.

You've got to go out there and somebody's got to whack it.

But it allows nobody to whack it.

You remember?

Nobody.

They just bury their head in sand and Henry had to back pound it.

And it was the wrong way to, because the backgrounders don't do it.

That goes through the sieve.

You know, here's how this comes out.

The only way we can get on is to get on the tube.

And that's this thing tonight that will get all of the stress by the writers' reactions and the politicians' reactions.

But the folks out there will see you telling your story.

And that's what we're going to be doing.

Well, at least we will come out for prisoners and so forth.

P-O-W-I, so noticeably said something about him.

And there's, he got enough, that whole two thing thing, that's what's going to throw the intellectuals off.

That's it.

Of course, we'll get a bad bounce on that, too.

The other people will go the other way, and I'll say, well, you've finally done what you shouldn't do.

You're surrendered in Vietnam.

Because it's done that way.

He is making the offer there.

He wrote that.

I'm not offering it, but the person who is going to offer can do this.

But it's still done the right way.

It's not a strike because it's done the right way.

He's coming in in order to assure a private parallel.

You know, it's wishful writing.

It's what they want.

They are petrified.

Henry is right on that, sir.

They are petrified of the thought that Vietnam might succeed.

Would you agree with that?

Yes, I do.

To sit in the bar of a hotel and I get back again to me,

for the Buchanan thesis versus the Price thesis.

I talked a little earlier about it, because he brought up the matter and stated it.

So I said, you know, maybe that's the wrong thing.

And the director said, well, it sure is my style.

He said, I know this is my age, but I don't like it around here.

He said, I know a step about me, and I'm uncomfortable with it at times.

But I said, on the other hand, what about Buchanan's argument?

In other words, what I was thinking of is Buchanan's, which I think very well probably presents its own view, if I were to put it in, because he's covered enough, where he covered a whole solid kind of column saying that.

He was slugged back, rather.

Which, of course, was, to a certain extent, my wondering, whether we have not

Now, the great majority thought, no.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Many people think I should have cracked him.

A few, you know, super nukes and partisans.

The point is, though, you know, most of the people who think you should have cracked him, you've got with you anyway.

So, most of them, and you may, maybe that means they're resolved a little bit because they wish you'd fight back.

That's the point.

Isn't that great?

But I don't think it does.

I don't think it does.

Could you share a story where you walked over a bike rider?

I think it would, I hate to say so, but in a surrender, that would be something else.

No, but what they want is a bike.

They like the, you know, that's the thing.

It isn't the fact that they want a bike.

See, the cataclysm runs through something very different than whether you walk over somebody.

It's basically the fact...

that a lot of people, Bob, in politics and life generally today, like controversy and they love the drama of a hell of a fight.

It's not a query.

Should we give them more of that?

Our earlier minister had various arguments.

He says, no, I'm going to stay in the presidential legislature.

I'll never give up the incumbency and all that.

He's very good at talking to the right side of what they've got.

Now, John, this is the only thing that people need to know.

He didn't have to be convinced.

I still miss yours.

No.

I think there's a way.

Well, it is in the sense that I think you've got to, you cannot fight them on their ground.

You've got to force them to fight on your ground.

There's one point, though, that I think we've got to bear in mind.

I think the candidate doesn't develop a point that many who say the president should not campaign do it on the basis of a misinterpretation of the 70-elect campaign that's effective.

You know what I mean?

Because you can't hit that right on the head.

It wasn't the 70 campaign.

It was the reaction of the media afterwards.

Screw this.

But the reaction of the media is going to...

He can't say, therefore, you don't worry about this because we're going to have the media.

The media will be out after us cats and dogs.

Well, we see this now.

Everything you do, every time you seize, they write that you seize in order to try and win the vote vote or something.

I mean, you know, there's...

You're right.

There's no way.

We have a board action campaign that's started already in that sense.

And you've got to remember, in the early parts of the 70s, we were treated rather gently in the Christ section.

Yep.

Crowds were good, a lot of enthusiasm, high-level and all that bullshit, you know.

Well, they were.

They had to treat you that way, pretty much.

But you were probably about to get the campaign, and they were not.

and they'll find a way every time that uh well you go back before the campaign and everybody's going to have to go back and read the effort book right and see how ever we can screw this and fight for instance comes up with an interesting thesis that would would play right to what earthman believes and then disprove berlin's conclusion because his point is

as Ervin feels, that credibility and all that sort of thing is terribly important.

And that the least credible thing there is is a president running for re-election and not campaigning.

Now, Roosevelt could do that in 1944 because he was the commander-in-chief of the Armed Services and he had to be brought back by a plane, but that's it.

ABC and CBS preferring 30.

NBC, of course, prefers 930.

Because that's the end of the... Oh, especially.

Well, 930 is better for us.

Yeah, I'd rather have 930.

I'd like to hit the West Coast for a change.

As we talked about, you know, we really know.

Well, we've got two who...

I said half an hour either way.

Yeah, we told you we've got two... We got 9 o'clock and said we could adjust to half an hour either way, but we tried to keep it within those lengths, too.

We didn't want to come back with an early or a late time.

9.30 would be optimum for us around.

That's the thing, I'd really love to hit California for a change.

We have to go back to CBS and ABC and say, you guys better recognize NBC really does have a problem today.

Of course.

What if it interferes on NBC?

NBC has a special.

I know that.

What about, I don't like the buses special.

What about CBS?

Well, so you'd be breaking a movie on ABC if you went at 9.30.

You know, but it's a crappy movie.

It's not a special order.

No, it's their hour and a half.

It's not even a big movie.

It's one of their crappy movies.

And they can interrupt the movie and say, we interrupt this special address for the United States.

Of course, the other thing, too, NBC.

I'm not pushing one or the other.

The denial thing has been heavily promoted in schools.

There's going to be a big family school audience

And if you interrupt that part one and part two at 8.30, you know, they're going to sit with the major presidential address.

The kids are going to stay with it.

Whereas if you go at 9.30, you lose that.

You lose that.

It's another solidarity program that only applies in the East.

In the West, it won't be on until 10.30 or 9.

I think, well, I think at 9.30, if the president regresses by 9.30, the kids will stay and see it.

There will be 10 million more people watching television at 9.30 than there will be at 8.30.

I'd really rather do it at 9.30, Ron.

I can't argue 9.30, sir.

In terms of audience.

Well, we went to him and said we preferred 9 and we're willing to talk a half an hour either way until he came back at 8.30, but I don't think we should consider that.

I'll just go back and tell him we decided 9.

We're requesting 9.30, and

Well, they would understand.

NBC's problem is bigger than ABC's or CBS's.

They won't dislike it, but they'd understand.

They'd rather screw with NBC, naturally.

You don't need to tell them about it.

Oh, well, they know, because it's in the log.

Well, it didn't say tonight, but we'll go back to that.

ABC has the movie.

CBS, you don't hurt at 9.30, do you?

Well, you...

They have an hour program.

They have a Hawaiian 5-0.

But that's at 8.30 to 9.30.

It's over.

No, I'm sorry.

CBS has a special I Am a Fan with Dick Van Dyke and Carol Channing.

That's it, though.

At 9.30?

At 9.30.

You can delay that until 10, though.

That's right, Ben.

That's what they got.

They're kind of special.

See, that's what CBS's problem is.

Why don't we throw it in there, Lance?

Why don't you call the three of them in and see if you guys figure it out?

Well, they had a nice call.

They vote two to one.

ABC and CBS voted 830.

This is what we did.

And NBC came back with a preference for 930.

And we had to sell out.

So where we stand now is if we leave it to them, as we gave them the half hour either side, it's 830.

If we say we've reviewed your suggestions, look at it totally from our point of view and decide 930, we simply request 930.

36.30 versus 5.30 on the West Coast.

Which is a hell of a difference.

An enormous jump.

Very little loss indeed.

There's very little loss between 8.30 and 9.30, right?

Goes down a little, but very little.

Of course, this was the advance announcement where I think we're going to have on all three networks.

Particularly with the stuff that's moving around this morning.

Well, yeah, you can sense the, you know, you can sense the...

When the news business senses it, it takes about three hours for the folks to... Yeah.

See?

Because this is going to be going all day, and they're going to be looking for a bomb or whatever time it goes on.

You'll get an audience.

Sure.

And you'll get a hell of a lot of replay in the West.

I was thinking just a little bit further.

Replay doesn't do us much good because outtakes from this are not useful.

That's the total, total ditch is all that does us any good on the show.

I don't think even a five minute outtake from this is going to do you much good.

Because it's your whole case that's going to be made.

Yeah.

Well, that solves our press briefing problem, which we were going to have to do at 6.15, which would have screwed us up.

If we go at 9.30, we could do that at 7.15, do the Congress at 8.

And I would do all the briefings a little later, which would have done so much more.

I'd just have done it at 8.30 the first time.

You know, get it over with the other slate, but carry it away.

This is a six-part series of which they're running parts one and two tonight.

Part one is an hour, part two is an hour.

There is a natural break between part one and part two, which would come at 8.30.

And they can say...

This sounds like I'm leaning toward a 30 out of 100 percent.

You have to keep in mind that the type of people who are going to watch Denial on NBC in the split are the type of people who... Well, not so much, but they're the type of people who would welcome it.

more a presidential address than the Titans watching Hawaii Five-0.

Yes, sir.

Or the Titans watching what you refer to as a cheap movie on NBC, on CBS.

In your mind, you've got some guy sitting out there making 15 grand a year with a beer can and his fat wife sitting next to him watching a movie, and the President of the United States comes on and he'll react.

On again.

No, Archie's for us, though.

Archie's for us.

Just because his hippie son-in-law, Michael, doesn't get us.

Archie's his name.

You know, they tell me that ABC is practically up the wall about that show.

I mean, their writers are.

Have you heard the story about how it came about, the way of the production?

The people that wrote it, as you know, the writers are remarkable people.

in all places, like Paul Keats and everybody else, and liberal.

They wrote this show for the purpose of making the hard hat look like a hood.

And to make Michael this nice son-in-law, and so forth, that showed how terrible prejudice and racism and so forth was.

They are now utterly shocked, because everybody came out of the movies as a hero, and the other guy is the anti-hero, he's the officer, and they don't know what the hell to do with him.

And they're trying to change it, and either make it worse, or get him to lean back the other way, and they finally can't do it.

And that's where the principle comes in because they're not about to do that and lose all that revenue.

They were trying to either get Archie to start seeing the light and become less afraid of that or trying to get him so far the other way, push him further.

and make it even worse, and they've tried both directions apparently, and they've been analyzing the thing, and they've concluded that either way, they screwed themselves, and they've gotta leave him where he is.

They can't, they've gotta, then they're rationalizing it, but it doesn't have any social message like they thought it would.

All it is is pure entertainment, and that's the way people want it.

It isn't that way at all.

That's when Archie sits there talking about the goddamn mobs and the Jews.

People just, or, tell me this, though.

You don't believe there are,

Don't you believe that the reason they wrote this was so he was kosher?

Oh, sure.

Oh, I know.

They were trying to do it.

Just like this movie, Joe, that they put out that was the same kind of thing.

Oh, the Joe.

There was a big part in it whose kid went bad.

They tried to make him look bad in that movie.

were about the other way.

I've only watched it one or two times, but the night I watched it, there was a blockbuster who came in, a black guy.

A blockbuster who came in, and it was interesting.

But the black guy looked bad.

The black guy was the villain, and the son-in-law was again the villain, and Archie was a hero again.

And his wife, she was a hero.

The black stuff, I saw it.

I've seen it three or four times.

And I saw one night where Archie's, the son-in-law, wasn't able to have satisfactory intercourse with the daughter.

And so Archie and his wife said they'd go on down to the bar and spend the evening at the bar so they could have the house to themselves and maybe they'd work out better without anybody else in the house.

So he goes down to the bar and the colored man, the black man, is there at the bar.

And Archie gets to talking to him.

He says, you know, I've got this problem with my son-in-law.

He says, he can't do anything.

He says, you people have more power than we do.

Tell me, what's your secret?

And so the black guy is this guy with a beautiful Oxford accent, Harvard-educated type of black, you know, who just sneers at Archie.

This is where they are trying to get the turnaround, to make the black guy look like the culture-hungry fellow in Archie's The Boo who is asking him how he gets his sexual prowess.

And the black guy says,

in these beautiful, hard, cultured tones.

He says, we do it by use of black magic.

And I'll explain to you some of the smells that you're not allowed to use.

And I said, oh, jeez, yeah.

He took all this stuff from it.

Can you hear me somehow?

Well, it's time to go.

I think it's an unbalanced call.

I think it doesn't really matter.

It doesn't make too much difference.

But we'll have to let you know.

We will get a point out.

It's actually a lot more important that we decide in 30 or 930.

Well, the 930 is the west coast, we wrote.

That's right.

Once we're really going to upset somebody, it seems to me we come out a little better on 930.

Well, that's right.

The only thing I would interject here is the fact that we have called them and asked for their recognition on either side, and two of them came back at 8.30.

Now, if I go back and just have to say, forget that original call that's at 9.30.

I don't mind doing that.

Yeah, yeah.

What you say is on a public service basis, we create more of a problem by going at 8.30 than we do at going at 9.30.

Well, in a sense, though...

You'll get the radio audience on the West Coast, which he did ask.

He did ask two of them out for 8.30.

What did you say to do that?

Well, they wouldn't hurt the NBC station.

No, that's the thing.

They'll divide that.

Or they'll do something with it.

And this is what we were talking about, the audience.

This is the factor.

You'll make less people mad.

And the people watching the Nile will stay with it and welcome that and stay with the Nile.

Yes, I want to get this out of the way.

Well...

If I could, I'd like to come back and talk to you about that.

I want to get my bike.

Thank you.

Good.

Come right back.

Connolly addressed Steve.

She thinks it's tremendous.

He likes to make a number of suggestions.

One, well, I'm not making a good example.

One good one may say so.

Proposal for peace has been made.

In the previous administration, you were saying there's one thing guaranteed, a drive charge, not the mortgage, sir.

Yeah.

So what we've put in...

Enough.

What we've put in means... Well, we've put in instead the only thing that has been agreed to in Paris.

No, I don't think we need that.

I think that's worse.

That irritates them more.

We don't really need that.

Oh, he doesn't mind that.

But, you know, he could take it up.

It's funny, not somebody... We should show them and put the text on it.

Oh, no.

Let's take that off.

Why not, John?

There's so much writing on this, and you don't really need that.

Why not, John?

Oh, they have made proposals for peace, you know.

That hasn't been formally made.

We didn't until May 14th.

We don't.

That's not, that's not doable.

It's not doable.

Then, it strikes.

So, don't set the shape of the table.

That just screws the shit up.

Then, what he wanted was a way to say, I've studied the origins of divorce.

Of war.

Of wars.

He said, I'm just quoting him now.

He said, well, in Texas, they don't give a damn what you've studied.

What they want to know is what you're doing.

And he said, just cut that sentence and say, this is why I did it.

That way it doesn't sound so defensive.

Privately, you can say, I think there's something to be said.

I agree with it.

Well, did you take out that sentence or paragraph?

Just take out that.

Just say, what do you want to mention?

No, he won't say that until you just say, this is why we did it privately.

You can speak more freely.

Right.

And so forth.

It makes it read more forcefully.

But you're not going to really put that in as the question that's been raised.

Yes, I don't think, he thinks they love it.

He thinks you have no trouble at all on the secret.

I'll take it out.

It cuts down.

One thing I've done last night, Mr. President, which I...

I think you've got all those sidebar keys.

For the rest, he just had words, every one of which was good.

Uh, but he thinks that, well, you won't speak till Thursday, so you've got two days of running.

He, uh, Connolly's suggestions are always good, you know.

They were really very good.

And Rogers' commitments, too.

Rogers' commitments.

But we took out such things as, uh, which, uh, established strength, but also, you know, you've got to edit it very carefully, it's, uh,

Like he was saying about the public and the private, he had a real cue in there about the, when you do not have to play before the grandstand, you don't have to play to the grandstand.

And the president always doesn't act in public, but he always acts for the public.

Well, it's just too goddamn acute.

Too acute.

Now, Mr. President, I took the liberty of doing it on my own.

You asked me so many acute questions yesterday about those two clocks, about...

What starts when we make an agreement in principle, and what do we do when there's a final agreement?

I'm thinking of what you would be able to do.

I know, but I figured if I have to spend a lot of time explaining it to you, that's how hostile press guys can say all these guys want is a residual to us, plus their Christmas back.

Yeah.

So I've amalgamated it.

I didn't say there were two stages.

I just said, here is our eight-point proposal.

Any of you can understand that.

That listens in the audience.

And since we're already offering... Not in my speech, you don't say eight points.

You don't listen to the whole thing.

No, no.

In the stuff we put out, I'll try to put out, this is our package.

What you put out in conjunction with the speech, right?

I'd say this is our eight-point plan.

At the same time,

We can say, as you were saying in your speech, we've already offered on May 31st withdrawals and ceasefire for prisoners.

Alone.

Alone, so if they want to do it in that stage, that's fine with us, too.

That gives us a good stage.

Right.

And they want to do it, you know, 80 points altogether, we'll do it altogether.

And I called Plotka last night on the secure phone, and that's unbelievable.

It's, you know, psychotic to talk to him on the secure phone.

to explain that to him, and he said, thank God, no one would have understood it in Vietnam, that they were willing to do it.

It was just too complex.

Then with the North Vietnamese service at October 11th, two-stage deal, I'll tell them in the briefing we had a two-stage deal in there, but it was illustrative of a way of achieving it.

To be illustrative, I would say it was only a illustrative mark of something.

It's quite different.

If they service it, that means they want it.

Then we're not asking for a residual for it.

What do we do if they come back with a proposition, Henry, that, uh, DOW's supposed to do?

They've already done that.

I know, I know, I know.

I know they have.

But, you understand, just DOW for the withdrawal.

What if they come back with that?

If they do, we've got to say, then we'll say it seems fine.

We may not.

But once this speech is made, then for the next 60 days, we have got to stand like a rock.

and not discuss any variations, whatever.

We must not give a bit.

We must not say, well, the oral, we have a problem with that.

Dave Stratlow called this morning with respect to these stories because I heard.

With the proof, sir, he had his letter last night.

You see, he called me.

He said, something big is going on.

I know it.

Why are you sitting in the office?

I think my speech for the Women's National Press Club is happening.

Last night.

Tomorrow, tomorrow.

I'll be in good, sir.

The more I think about it,

I called, what do you see, lay in the trunk of it, told me Saturday, that there was a bombing truck.

And he said, the way they set them up is to offer the truck to prisoners.

I said, well, that's worth thinking about.

But state admits that they said that they wouldn't knock the truck story down.

And they said it was due to ignorance.

But you know, McCloskey didn't know, but you know, in a high morale department, in changing a story like that at night, he wouldn't assume anything.

He'd call you up and he'd say, Bob, what do you think?

Bob, you're dissimilar.

They wouldn't say, what's going on?

They'd say, what am I supposed to say?

Exactly.

They wouldn't ask what's going on.

They'd say, what do I think?

They would have called us out of the way.

called me and he said, you misled me.

I said, come on.

I didn't know what you were talking about.

He said, well, you can offer withdrawal for prisoners.

I said, Dave, you know they've already turned it down to the New York Times.

Wouldn't it be a cheap shot if we did that?

He said, I guess that's a cheap shot.

So I said, don't go out on a limb.

When is your deadline?

He said, tomorrow.

I said, you're in good shape.

Don't worry.

and he said, well, you're going to offer prisoners who withdraw.

I said, Dave, you know, they've already printed it out.

It would be a cheap shot if we did anything like that, wouldn't it?

He said, yes, I guess that's right, it'd be a cheap shot.

And they do it?

If we just offer straight, you know, what they've already printed.

Yeah, on the other hand, he'll say that we made it a cheap shot, so he will not differentiate.

Oh, yes, Dave, that's right.

Dave is tough, but he's decent.

You know, there's a lot to compose about killers in the editorial.

It's old times.

It's old time.

It's old music.

We're going to get pretty soundly killed on this one because it's got enough potency to the people that it's going to distress the opposition pretty badly.

Well, it may have potency with the people.

The main point is whether I think it'll have sound.

but it's sort of like Cambodia, November 3rd, it has a problem, not less like November 3rd, it's more like Cambodia, in the sense that it has to stand on its own merits as to whether it's a good proposal.

It will be king.

for the same reason that they kicked Cambodia, because the bastards knew it was the right thing to do, and it might succeed.

On this, they know this is the right thing to do.

They know that it's the right proposal.

They know they've been offering it, and that's why, and they will kick it.

Not because they disagree with it, but because they agree with it.

I am doing my right to pass the problem, and I therefore, so what should our reaction be?

Because that assassin can go to hell.

I'm just, don't worry about it.

You better remember, even if we're kicking each other, that's why, you see, Henry, you better always read the press, as I did with the very callous I. I always say, if the president is kicking me because he disagrees, honestly, then I am very much interested in his opinion, because I might be wrong.

But if I know he is kicking me because he really agrees and is furious because we did it, then I know, well, I'm doing the right thing.

You see my point?

That's what we're up against at the present time.

We will continue.

It's like the criticism of the chapter.

The criticism of India-Pakistan.

And Heston said, for instance, he's very good at all.

India-Pakistan, we did the right thing.

It was interesting that they elected a general of the U.S.

He's on our side.

Cochran said to us that I think... Why, sure.

He said he knows the goal is 10 to 1.

He knows that we have to save West Pakistan.

And he knew it.

He said, we're hoping it was on your side.

We knew it.

But looking at the, looking at the, we, it's about, he'll be a great approval number, you all have to, at least it's on our guns, halfway honorable.

And I think our city would help.

And more to tell us, Utah was both stupid and tricky.

He was sure tricky.

I don't know if he was stupid.

But the other one I was going to say is that I despise him.

The other one, in terms of this, and

And they like it in China.

The bachelors know that you have to make the China trip.

They know it's an investment-interested country.

They all said it when it was first announced.

Now they're petrified at the thought that we're going to go to both China and Russia, and that both may have some success.

And Kennedy, who was sucking around the embassy in Ottawa, who was up there three or four times, said, the States, we will cross trade before China.

We can cross.

Although he's lying, the same crap also said that he thought it was a good idea.

He's covering his tracks.

He's going, well, screw him.

I think, though, everything

Obviously, when I first explained it to him, he thought it was good, but not, you know, he wasn't jumping up and down.

Now that he's read it, he said, this is going to be tremendous, I don't know if it was bombshell, but that was the idea he conveyed.

He said, very strong, and he thinks it's very good, very effective speech.

He only made four or five comments, and every one of it was good, I'm sure.

We've taken out all the waffles and it's a good, strong, non-rhetorical speech which is important for this occasion.

I've seen the families this week of the POWs.

Which group?

500 of them were represented by a group, and I think that's the one you said was sort of a political group.

They were organizing to go into crime, right?

Isn't that sort of likely?

Yeah, it is.

This may turn some of those people around.

The problem with some of those people is they're being panned by this stuff.

And I kept saying, well, I can't tell you everything.

And also, when I went to speak to him, I said, I assure you that in every channel we're exploring this now.

By God, we'd say we are.

And the only other thing they can say is, well, why don't you scrape away the ceasefire?

Why don't you overkill Q?

But I think if they go to that point, we'll say, no, sir, not be profiling on these.

We're not going to do that.

We've just got to save them.

Anyway, could I ask if you've got one other thing?

What do you think of the time that you can do a certain scenario with regard to the China trip?

He said, we'll be in China.

The North Vietnamese will attack the South Vietnam, cut the country in half.

There will be a crisis, and this will go to hell.

I can't deny that that could happen.

Don't be that pessimistic.

You know, the reason they're right is they wish it would happen.

I don't, I don't think it's probable that that's, that the Northeast and these outpatient buildings were tremendously damaged in February, but what we're doing today is set the stage for our meeting back.

Okay, what do you think?

Well, I think I, 830's fine.

They are delaying the movie on ABC and CBS will not interrupt the live live-off, so what we talked about is locked.

I'll go out and, uh,

On 11.30, you say the president will make an address tonight, deliver an address to the nation at 8.30.

Do you get the number of words when you change to 20 minutes?

Right, you're just talking to me less than a half hour.

Right.

Between the, yeah, say.

15, 20 minutes.

Less than a half an hour.

Just say less than a half hour.

Yeah.

Just say less than a half hour, because I don't know what it is.

I think it's, I guess it's around 20 minutes.

You can say it's between 20 and 25 minutes.

Well, because we expect that it will run less than a half hour, even so it isn't all locked up, but we'll expect it to run less than a half hour.

Or do you want to give it to me?

No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not necessary.

Because you have given addresses of five or ten minutes on occasions, I always get asked a question, is it five or ten minutes?

Why don't you say between one and thirty minutes?

I'll just, depending on the question, I might not get the question.

I'll say less than a half hour.

If I get the five minute question, I'll say no, it'll be more than that.

Perhaps the deep 20 minutes.

Leave it around 20 minutes.

Why don't you just say around 20 minutes?

That's what it really is.

It's in that ballpark.

When you do that, see, they don't take it for guidance, which is what you're giving the job.

Well, they take it as a story, and then it's written.

A person who would give a 20-minute address to the patient, I don't think you want to say that.

Okay.

Yeah, I think not.

You're saying it will be in a 30-minute time frame.

That is addressed in 25 minutes.

Yeah.

I think you're saying it will be in the 30th week.

It will be in the 30-minute time frame.

Certainly not less than five.

Now...

Okay.

Now, I should refer to it as a major foreign policy address.

Yeah.

That's right.

Okay.

Now, though, because of the storage running this morning, primarily I think coming down to an address or a statement, or doesn't that make any difference?

Statement.

I prefer statement to address.

Major foreign policy statement.

Yeah.

Then they'll get into, well, the wire suggests today that the president's going to announce a special withdrawal date and so forth.

And talking to Al, I think what I should say there is, gentlemen, I caution you against speculation.

The president will deliver a speech tonight, and I suggest you wait for that period.

Do you agree with me?

Yes, sir.

Exactly.

Now, then they'll say, is the president seeing Porter, or will he see Porter?

The answer to that is no, isn't it?

He won't see Porter.

He sort of could have been a picture of you.

Today?

For five minutes.

Well, you see, Porter, there's no question.

We didn't have those on Vietnam.

Oh.

That's right.

If you want it not just on Vietnam, I don't know.

We don't.

No.

You see, you're stuck with it.

It's on Vietnam for sure.

I see.

Come on.

We've got to go back tomorrow.

Well, let's see whether we can hold it until noon.

Why the hell?

Of course you can.

See him the night after the speech.

Yeah.

All right.

Just as long as we can get a picture of him.

And we get the picture after the speech, we can?

He can come in after that.

He can come right in here and stand behind your desk.

All right.

Good.

Okay.

Now they'll say, has Porter seen Kissinger?

Yes.

I say he's been here for a long time.

So out of this will come

The announcement of a major...

I only saw it for 20 minutes, which is true.

I'll say I think Henry saw it briefly.

Briefly, it's really true.

Out of this will come a major address on foreign policy, caution against speculation, and still, however, the press will speculate the president's tonight.

They'll announce a major initiative on Vietnam.

That's what they'll say.

I hope that's all they say.

I'm afraid they'll say that he's going to announce it.

Well, I think maybe the caution not to get out on a limb thing or not.

I've hit that very hard.

I'll call your attention to what they said to the New York Times on Friday.

Yeah.

What did they do?

They turned it down.

After all, after it's down, you will know that the North Korean maids turned down such a proposal.

If I get it, I open up a can.

Now, I was asked yesterday whether or not Porter was

You saw what I said there.

I don't think I'd say anything at all today on that.

I'd just say, gentlemen, I have nothing to add.

No advance to make or anything of that sort.

Okay?

I have nothing new.

I have nothing new to provide you with.

I have a question.

I have a question on that.

If you can.

Fine.

8.30 time, then.

All right.

I told Al.

Okay.

It's okay.

You're on Saturday, Mr. Adams.

You will speak Thursday, their time, which is 24 hours after you've spoken, so you have the 24 hours.

I must say that little bastard has really shown a lot of... You know, last night, he had in his speech something that offered he wouldn't run again.

You've taken that argument?

Yeah, because we don't want to have the impression...

We've dumped him down the chute, and we can go back to him later.

Yeah, we can use that later.

He will be willing to go.

But, uh, and I think it's good for him to have been on the record, or have said, we don't want that.

You're right.

You're on charge of that, and we will always handle it.

I think that's the big news, which nobody has due offering to do that.

That's right, yeah.

They'll say it's fraud and all that.

I think I'll go back and I'm trying to please them.

Who?

Well, there you go.

But I called him this morning to tell him about the ownership, that Haig would brief him as soon as he come back from the caucus.

I didn't want him inadvertently to start leading this stuff up there.

He's testifying to that.

Why?

Do you think, do you think Jill is guilty?

No, I think... No, I think... Oh, no, no, no, no.

Abramson, no.

I think what happened was that he was...

He knew Porter was back.

He wants to set up these bombing attacks.

He thinks it's a cute move to offer it and get it turned down and then hit them.

He called me on Saturday and said, maybe you ought to do this.

Could I suggest one thing that I think is best for Bob to handle with Mel?

Keep you out of it, but as soon as he's part of the deal.

There was a story we gathered in Washington Post.

I'll arrange it.

It's outrageous for the reason that it's totally 180 degrees wrong.

Did we or did we not?

We did not restrict the fast.

They wanted to go on for five.

Remember, I tried to stop the goddamn thing in two days, Henry.

You recall, I said, the extra two days isn't worth it.

You said, no, the defense wants to go set.

I said, okay, go ahead.

As far as targets for crisis, we gave them all sorts of targets.

Who's putting this up?

I think it's Jesus.

But what in the name of the government?

Well, firstly, every target we approved, they gave us.

We put no restrictions on it.

None.

It had to be done this week, as they damn well knew, because Haig was going to be in China the following week, and Congress was coming back the week after that.

They had screwed it up for three weeks.

It was the only... Was it a bad idea for him, Kitty?

I do not believe that it was, Mr. President, because... We haven't talked about it before.

Well, because the weather has been so bad.

But one indication that it was, in my view, must have been somewhat of a success is because...

Hanoi protested to the French about our violence.

And then they wouldn't let them look at the damage.

Let me ask you, Bob, what's the best way to handle this with Blair?

Call Blair and say, I want to see the statement that they can see today.

I don't know who did it.

Tell him.

Is it worth asking who did it?

Yes.

Sure.

Okay.

It's great to be a partner, but I didn't expect it.

Well, it's working beautiful.

Good.

Well, I think we're better off not getting into this and just saying, gentlemen, I caution you against any speculation along that line.

When I get to a direct question, they'll see this.

Well, let me and Connor go over this.

Okay.

This is good.

The only thing now, can you get now, and also, I think you've got to get more on the phone.

What do you think, Harry?

Did you get more on the phone?

Yeah.

I thought that, frankly, that I had been standing up for the chiefs, and I'm really quite disturbed with this.

And, frankly, they tell now.

As a matter of fact, what the hell are we going to do?

I ordered a three-day thing, and they asked for a sentence of five.

Isn't that true?

They said they wanted to pick a window.

All right, and we did pick a window.

The second part of the targets were the Chinese.

We picked the goddamn targets, the most targeted targets.

Eliminate one single target.

Now, they know that, and then we've got that record, and the president's about to put it out.

It's going to embarrass the chiefs unless the chiefs find somebody that did this and score.

Now, who the hell is it over there?

What do you mean, Percy?

Percy would do this?

He puts flippers in this.

I don't know what Percy would do in prison.

There's a combination of the peacemakers plus the jerks in the Air Force who want to bomb with clear visibility and who object to the restriction that they have to bomb through clouds.

As far as I'm sure, they want to lay off and wait for the weather to go down.

We gave them six weeks last February and March when they couldn't find one good day, if you remember.

Actually, we've got only four days.

We didn't go five days.

Well, the Air Force, you figure those things.

And the mythology is all five days.

But from here on, it could have been ten.

It could have been three.

But it's done now.

The point that I make, though, is that this, Bob, is a deliberate attempt to share us from Spider-Man.

Do you think it's seamless?

He didn't get the job.

I think it's the uniform that it has.

Let's get out of that one thing.

I was saying he didn't know about the bombing.

So he didn't know?

Well, for Christ's sake, why didn't he know?

Well, he was supposed to.

That's not our problem.

That's Larry's problem.

We don't deal with secrets.

That's right.

I haven't seen it.

This is the way it read it.

It read it for him.

I think it's a combination of the Defense Department and the Joint Staff, because the Joint Staff is now sucking it up, laying a truck, attacking this Congress.

And Moore's behavior, I'll talk to you after this speech and these meetings,

We've got either to fuck him up or let him go.

I'm not talking now about what he did in these stolen documents, which we have to overlook.

But at these meetings, we had a meeting yesterday I wanted to do in Vietnam, and normally he was the top guy, and we could always count on him.

He's now following completely landforms.

He's completely brown people.

Where's that black man that you...

Laird is, uh, playing a rough game.

Yes.

He's trying to block me in the head.

He claimed that, uh...

I don't think Laird's here.

I think one, one slapped Laird down, and he said, sorry, it's just a question of whether one wants to take the energy.

Well, it is evidence, though.

Now, you're not going to allow it.

They used the White House to do this.

God damn it, the White House.

Now, is that what you want to possibly do with Tony?

Because, you know, it's as long as you put notice for the driver.

And we don't want to knock it down from here.

He's got to expect him to knock it down from there.

It's a total...

They should say there were no restrictions as far as... Well, say first, if not, say first the targets were selected by the Joint Chiefs.

And recommended by him?

And it was even recommended by him, but in such a crooked way that he's got six different houses with him.

Well, you know, we have this every time.

Usually it's right off the time, just a little later down the line, the State Department.

Right.

Before everyone in the state, we shouldn't say much this time on this one.

But, you know, whether it's a troop withdrawal, whether it's anything else, for Christ's sakes, all sorts of bullshit comes out when the department's not in the White House.

And it's just a goddamn exaggeration.

Well, Mr. President, something has to be done.

This isn't the day to do it because...

True, you've survived the most unbelievable things, but what doesn't happen is that when there's trouble, people don't photograph it.

I think the other's telling the story.

Conley and Schultz, they go out and take the heat.

Conley and Schultz go out and take the heat.

Mitchell takes the heat, if that's what I can observe.

Absolutely.

Not the way Conley does.

I mean, Conley has...

just completely ingrained in his basic philosophy of life is how he deals with things.

If there's good news, if there's something big to announce, or something happening that's going to have a positive bounce, the president should do it.

He should get out in front of it, and he should go all the way.

If there's bad news, if there's something that's got to be covered up, something that's got to be explained and rationalized, something we've got to deal with because it's there and it won't go away, then we ought to advise the guy this was the dog's fault.

Oh, yes, fellas.

Nelson's always a bad boy, and I'm a good boy.

I'm sure you called colleagues on the plan at that point.

That depends if it's either what he did or not.

You've got to constantly remind him that we're aware of what he's doing on this spot.

And what we missed after I was in this building doing Kennedy, and therefore I know what you're missing, that we'd never get any papers.

to do things to make you look good.

They'll carry out orders more or less in a half-baked way.

But it's really like pulling teeth with a Republican president.

And you've had to shoulder a load that is, uh, that is just immeasurable.

Maybe we did a big bad man.

Or we did one good one.

Well, even with good men, the bureaucracy would be a major problem, because the bureaucracy is democratic.

And with the leaking that now goes on, Alex Johnson, who's at least a decent man, came to me after a meeting yesterday, and he said that he's never seen Washington so sick.

He's terrified now to go into meetings.

He doesn't know how to control things anymore.

He doesn't believe you?

No, Alex Johnson, no.

Alex is a decent guy.

He will protect the Foreign Service, but that's his job.

We could do Alex.

In fact, he's the tower of strength of the State Department.

He's much more strong than Irwin.

Irwin is nothing.

Irwin is really nothing.

A nice guy, a decent guy.

But incidentally, why not if we...

We were, we think they're offering Germany the pageant.

I asked my accountant to check that out.

You know, pageant.

Pageant.

So he's very, very good man.

Anyway, we couldn't get plenty.

Why not send everybody to Germany?

We got everybody around the secretary.

Too bad we didn't rush to that point earlier.

No, we didn't rush.

We had somebody to take care of.

Well, we'd get somebody worse than everybody else.

I wouldn't reopen.

I think, Mr. President, you will want to do it.

You will close your state this year and then...

I'd close the state this year.

I think next year it's got to be cleaned up from top to bottom.

Don't worry.

If you put a strong man in there now... Not next year.

November.

November 7th, right after the election.

Oh, yes, you've got to tear it right to pieces.

Don't wait.

It's got to...

I don't think you can do it now.

Maybe you just...

You're putting... Who are you inviting as a delegate?

There's three for the congressmen and senators.

The standard of top leaders plus foreign relations and military and armed services.

Albert Boggs Ford.

Ellinger as president pro tem.

Do you have any senators?

No.

Yes.

Mancino Scott.

and Fulbright and Aitken, Stennis and Margaret, Morgan and Maillard, Hebert and Ernst.

What are we doing technically about Goldwater, Stennis, and some of our friends?

Well, now that the plan isn't so complex anymore, we can call them.

I was afraid that when the plan was so complex that they'd screw it up if they talked.

I'd like to see a few of our friends be with us.

They're not very good friends in that group.

Well, I don't bother that.

Well, we were going to get a group of the men tomorrow morning.

You were going to cover today, just by Paul Miller's squad, Reagan dropped off at our... Johnson.

Johnson.

That's all.

Goldwater.

You wanted to do Goldwater.

I was going to cover Stennis, too.

Stennis will be at the briefing.

Go about it.

Well, I mean, you've got to get maybe taller.

Just thinking of something.

But tomorrow morning, if you could get some of them in, I could get them a real idea.

Tomorrow morning, I don't know.

You think the thing is, Bob, you've got to get some smart person to figure out a group so that they don't leave out the wrong people.

Can you do that?

I will not do the meeting tomorrow morning.

I don't want to be, I don't want to do another one.

You understand?

I don't want to be out doing another group of congressmen tomorrow.

Or did you have any of that in mind?

No.

You were to open this one tonight.

This one I do with leadership.

I sure will.

The one tonight is at 7 o'clock.

The leadership meeting.

What kind of art are all your readings?

So we can get that in.

Would you like me, get me a one-page, have Albert a one-page of what he wants me to say?

I don't know.

And it's going to do the TV people at 6.15, the leaders at 7, and the writing press at 7.45.

Now it's a piece of cake, anyway, that we've simplified the plan.

If you hadn't, no, really, then you're...

in your room with you last night at midnight.

We were going to go with a complex one, but I figured when you said that the questions you asked me were the kindest questions I was likely to get, and I figured if I had so much trouble explaining it to you,

You understood it all right, but there were so many bookers that developed that that they held with it.

We can always say that one stage is the ceasefire and withdrawal, the other stage is the...

I think we can anticipate that the North Vietnamese or the V.C.

will turn this down.

We can't wait until Thursday.

Since they reacted so quickly on the road, they aren't going to wait on this ending.

Right.

Keep it in and make it 57 points.

Just keep at it.

Stay on the offensive.

You can really kick the ass off the saddle, Bob.

I mean, the coasts.

All of our people are scaling it.

All of the people are talking the press fine.

Actually, McGregor said, no, yes, we've got a good offensive.

Don't just stick with it.

Don't deviate from it.

Fight for it.

Defend the administration.

When we put out the record, people will see that I have a list, which I'm going to read tomorrow, of all the concessions we made during the summer alone to meet their points.

And they're going to scream.

Of course.

Do you think we may get a better bill for the speech if we say it is on Southeast Asia?

Well, let's think about that.

I think I'll put it this way, and then you can have a laugh at it for a moment.

I'm inclined to think that you're trying to get rather heavy speculation that it is some other way.

What I mean is that, I mean, but if you're tall, it seems to be easier.

But what do you gain by it?

Most people have speculated Southeast Asia anyway.

That's right.

So that's what I'm just wondering.

The speculation's going to be there.

If the White House says it, then people's

anticipation will be that the president's going to have a major foreign policy statement relating to Vietnam, relating to Southeast Asia.

And that's what our answer to you is that it's going to be there.

Well, I don't see it practically much good because that's what most of our commentators say.

But if you say Vietnam, you're just giving Hanoi another...

It, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh, it's because, uh,

Because a lot of them realize it and sort of crack it up.

They're sick of hearing about it.

Just, you know, what's there more to say?

He's winding it down.

We know what he's doing.

We don't need to talk about it anymore.

Our friends would say we're doing it.

We're not already, and our enemies are not doing the right thing.

Actually, this Brooklyn thing turned out to be a blessing.

Why?

Well, because the bastards had tuned down the trolls for Christmas and real estate.

You know, I'll say tonight if they ask me, those gentlemen, we could have taken a cheap shot.

We knew they would do it.

We've offered the most responsible proposal.

We're following their outline of their nine points.

They want you out.

The only thing we won't do is install a communist government.

That's a decision.

It's going to be a test of whether there's any fair-mindedness left in this country.

And I think the 10% who are fair-minded may listen.

But our opponents are going to climb up all this.

I guess.

It's a lot more than 10%.

It's about 80% that are fair-minded, but you won't hear much from them.

You're going to hear from the 20% that aren't.

Look, the main thing you have to feel is that we're doing the right thing, right?

It's like May 14th.

It gives you a platform.

May what?

May 14th, 69.

It gives you a platform to stand for the voice.

Well, at least they don't... they can't play games with us now.

The one advantage now is all the bastards who said they knew a withdrawal date would release the prisoners.

You don't hear a... Oh, that doesn't get any play, though.

All right, you'll get it.

Get that out.

The New York Times put it on page 10 when they turned on their proposal.

Well, like where they put the Laotian military victories.

They wouldn't put it at all.

They wouldn't put it at all until Poland needled them and said, when are you going to run your answers?

They said it's no news, which is an even more cynical statement, which means they knew it was going to be cleared up.

All right, well, we'll get, well, what's the argument, of course, that we'll get this enchanted?

by the fact that he turned down our proposal.

What do you think, Bob?

Isn't that true?

Yeah.

People get old.

Sure, you'll get some.

But also, there must be some point in which we can go and say, I think you're going to get that feeling anyway from the fact that you moved the secret proposal onto the old paper.

There's going to be very much of a reaction that...

But I think you've got to fix it that way.

You've gone the last mile.

You're taking one more effort, making one more effort by moving the secret stuff to the table.

But if you take it the other way, Mr. President, suppose that you didn't make this speech.

And the offensive hits.

And you've got the Senate going at you.

The Senate is at you.

The offensive hits.

Every newspaper will howl.

This is because the President wanted a parliamentary victory.

And he neglected negotiations.

That's the way, and also the B.O.W.

lines in these songs.

You say, let's have a diss for that.

Why don't we do something about the B.O.W.s and so forth.

It gives us an answer to a lot of questions.

The kind of asshole Jack had, I mean, a damn random question that he picked up.

You know what this does to that little colony with him?

It just really blasts him totally out of the water.

That's where I sit.

to turn down, and all that, to turn down.

I'm not sure you know him, my friend.

Oh, yes, that's right.

He's clever, but he's...

I thought, I think that interview was the best match for you that we could have gotten, because if it had been one of these scholarly, fatherly times, he looked so...

He looked so abrasive and petty and snapping at your heels that I think we could have invented an interviewer.

there will be a certain amount of letdown associated with this, in a sense.

But in another sense, I think 90% of that letdown has already occurred.

It's already been discounted.

Most people, if you poll them, show that they have no confidence in negotiating.

That's right.

So all we're doing is to get our negotiating posture in a proper position, and then telling the people, now they don't negotiate, we're still going to end up in the end of the position.

And if they hit us, we're going to hit them.

And this shows also that you...

that you had done exactly what you said you had done.

That's exactly right.

Every avenue, and all the little bastards who were saying you were lying, you were tricky, you were, they were the, they were the truth.

That's quite right.

It's very well taken.

It does show that over this period of time, we have fought like hell for the rights of the right men.

But our...

I sometimes... We had one hell of a time getting our sign out.

He just worked his ass off about 18 hours a day.

And son of a bitch, they won't use it.

This presidency, in historical perspective, has had to face obstacles.

Really, I don't know what a presidency is.

Can I ask one other thing?

Do you think that the number of press while you're trying to block, do you think you ought to try to get money more?

20 you can't get.

10?

5 or 6 or something like that, but 20 you can't get.

Well, I'm just thinking of... That's a breach of, you know, that's a 20 you can't get.

Five or six, I think we have.

We don't really need to get to them anymore.

Then five or six could help us.

I'm thinking, for example, of one that could be extremely helpful.

I don't know who the person will say.

But we talk about people who influence other press men.

One of them does influence them because he is the father of a guy named Constantine.

Constantine went with us to Russia.

And he's the only person that has any credibility with other press guys.

And, you know, it's that kind of thing.

And he writes feature stuff.

He writes feature stuff, and he'll do...

I think we could get, say, six or seven more press if we give up these others.

You see, if we could give us some time, it's important.

Good.

So that we could show them some goodwill.

How about some communications people?

Could we get some of that?

You really got that cut down?

You really did.

We've run on so many rounds on that before we went over the numbers.

Okay.

You look at what they came in with.

I think if we could cut

Well, my sense of their psychology is if we could say, it'd be a great aid to us, it turns out that the demand is so great, and the criteria is so hard to establish, if we could get seven more, and we're willing to give up three others, so the total number will increase by only four.

I'm just looking around to see what you're saying.

I think if we could, if we gave up something, so that we're just not asking,

That's the way their mind works.

But I don't think there's a real problem with what you did about it this morning.

Well, maybe Ron has something on his...

He mumbled something to us yesterday.

He's willing to give up something.

He's trying to work out some trades on the press.

That's what I mean.

Where he'd give up some press for other press.

Ron gave his thing in balance.

Ron, what?

Well, he mentioned to me that he was willing to give up some of his technical people for writing.

But I wouldn't go much, I wouldn't ask for much more than five additional net.

We don't need a writer.

I mean, maybe we don't get the... Well, I'll get to the, you know, some of the other questions.

Is there...

There's the whole point of the...

When is the copy going to be in?

We need to take a look at it.

They're typing it now.

It was a snafu.

It's all right.

I had told my... You made my opinion.

I told him to run it past Sapphire and he didn't come in until 10.

Instead of typing it and running it past them.

Wisconsin.

Everybody's happy now.

You've got everything now except that one sentence.

It shouldn't be anything.

I'll put it in.

It's the only thing that we don't shave in the conference table, but you can take it.

I'm going to take that.

I don't want that.

You got autistic a couple times.

come up to that, you've got to at least consider that.

Okay, one is sapphire, which we talked about.

We don't get it.

Whether the value of that, no.

If you're going to take it, you can.

Because you can't take sapphire.

I don't know if you should take it either.

You can't not take it.

Take it for rushing.

That'd be...

real bloated fact to leave him on, because you told him with those ideas going, can't we, we're going to use him to work with the conservative conservatives.

We haven't talked to Robert Sassner.

That's too much facts.

Then you have the point of her client, which we've narrowed down, but that you, in thinking about it, it's at least worth considering the value of what he can do, having been there in covering

working TV and newspapers around the country when he gets back.

And, you know, the editorial boards and the forums and all that kind of stuff where he just peddles the hell out of what the president did in China.

And it's going to, as director of communications, this is the argument and there's simplicity to it, it's going to

undercutting badly not to be there when you have a scallywag.

Are you sure about that?

Well, that came long ago, and we didn't.

I know.

We just have not been declined full of time.

We should have.

That's another point.

Another one is the question of a Mark Good or Bill Carruthers.

No.

Okay.

I understand the no, but I'm just raising my hand.

The point is that you're doing the most important television stuff we've ever done without any television.

I don't know anything about it.

Well, they do.

I mean, they don't know anything about what we will have in the land.

There isn't a damn thing that they can have.

That's, we're not going to take any other person.

That's basically where I come down.

It's all events that there's nothing we can do about.

On that note, I'm very much worried about all of these.

I got raised.

I'm worried about the problem of our looking like we have to see how to be our people.

Let me say, I'm not going to have to go to the Chinese, but to the press.

I do believe that we're going to be forever, so we just don't need them.

I'm just going to have to take that as a catch-and-catch-and basis.

But maybe, I mean, I know a few.

And also, let's have in mind the fact that Triton's not done a lot of talking.

Triton is very much capable to do that.

If you're willing to...

He knows exactly what's happening.

He knows the internet.

He knows the pictures and the rest of it.

I guess that's not going to happen forever.

The only value that you have there is that when you walk into an area,

Uh, you know, you get to the wall or the ribbon house or some damn thing to say, don't waste time here.

The picture opportunity is, is on you.

Keep moving to make the other thing there or something.

You can do that.

Well, it's usually a kick, but our discoloration tells me you don't need both.

Just one kick and you can go along and you can say, go over the wall.

The best pictures here.

He knows that.

You ain't asked no man to know where the hell the pictures are.

You remember how we screwed up on that picture deal out there in Hawaii with some of those

Yeah, astronauts came back.

That was before Mark Goodes.

Not his fault.

He's a good man.

But I think if we take television producers along, it's bad.

I said no.

So those were out.

The client thing, what do you think?

Well, it isn't.

On the one hand, it means you've got three press guys with you.

On the other hand, it is a blow to him, and he does.

I agree with your judgment, but he does sell like

great ability when you watch him on television.

He gives the impression that he's in your office five times a day.

And still giving...

I think there's something to say for the client, then.

There is.

Now, incidentally, can I suggest one area?

I know it's a go-to, but I don't think we should take the protocol in.

I just don't think... That was my next observation.

I feel very strongly that I cannot justify...

But he's done the ambassadorship to Spain, so he's... Is he offered that?

Yeah, and he's accepted it.

He hasn't, and he doesn't know.

We don't understand a thing.

He'll be in the way.

Well, he's in the way.

That's the point.

There is only one thing, and it's the protocol.

There is only one thing that he would help us with, and that is the logistics of handling the goddamn gifts.

And that, for Christ's sake, any of us can take care of it.

I can't even get it, sir.

You are taking care of it.

It takes no special man.

No!

They do.

You or Jacob.

It is a deal.

But he's got to be told now that he's not going to go now.

That's all there is to it.

We can't.

You just don't need a protocol.

Now, that's one we can cut.

So you're substituting the line for him.

No.

Because they don't have one.

Oh, I see.

This would be an issue.

Well, that's it.

That's it.

The other one is Al Snyder, who is the same argument that we had before.

The argument for him, who is also very good on television, would be at the transmission center to keep tabs on what was being sent out and working correspondence at the transmission center, which is different than where the event is taking place.

I think, especially if you take Klein, you could use Klein to do some of that, and you just tell Scali, say, we're Klein, and what the hell is Scali going to do?

Rotate on that guy.

Get him out there.

He can help on that.

You have too many.

They don't have enough to do.

True.

Yeah.

Except that there's so, what, by client, you're taking not so much, you don't want him to do anything very much there.

What you're really bringing him along on is to soak it up for what he peddles when he gets back.

And I'm not sure it's worth that.

I really am not.

The disadvantage of having him along is what they pretend to have.

Having to breathe, I know.

He's got to sit at a meter and all that.

Oh, no, he can't sit at a meter.

No, I don't.

No.

That's the problem that you have, though.

Whenever you have a guy at home, I'll be like, what the hell do you do with him?

I'm going to go, uh, let Ron see the text.

I know he ain't, huh?

He ought to start getting ready.

I'm going to let him see it.

Ron, I said never.

That's what I have to do.

I'm going to have to read it.

I'll tell Rose about the next trip.

No, you just relax a little bit.

Go rest.

You've got a big night.

Get ready for your group.

You've got a big night.

He also has a big night.

Mr. President, that session last night was the best thing we've done to them, please.

Mr. President, we had a...

I think it was good with your conclusion on it.

That's your conclusion.

Two seconds.

I think it's time to be through with what we made in the text.

If you had not asked these questions, we would have gone with the original plan.

Which is good, but it is so complicated that I would have had to change it.

Don't you agree?

Yes, sir.

And like they give the simplest of answers, let the other side say what and how they're going to say it anyway.

But we have to say it first.

Right.

Let me suggest something.

I don't know that you can do it.

Try a nap this afternoon.

Or a shower.

Yeah.

What, have you done anything?

Well, I'm a humorist, Pat, one of mine.

I'll come to the bus at 3.30.

God damn it, you see, you've got to be sharp tonight.

Oh, I'll be.

No, speak straight, sir.

What I want to do is I want to read the whole record.

I want to read all the proposals.

Don't let anybody bother you now.

Now, Rose doesn't even screw around with this goddamn thing.

If you've got, can she just, I'll just check on it.

But I'm getting good data on Mr. President.

I'm really, I think we've got to knock out of his speech within the limits of what's possible on this lousy topic.

You know, if I agree with Bob, as a student,

Let down?

But they let down already.

It's already there.

You have to release it.

And?

I think any fair-minded person which is 80% of the country will have to say, God, the president really tried.

That's it.

They don't know the proposal.

They don't understand it.

That's it.

I think what we have to do is... Let's get out of here.

Let's get out of here.

Second point is, give everybody double duties.

For example, if you don't mean good for others for a reason, that kid is a smart son of a gun.

You don't know how to handle him.

He's been there.

And who knows what's a good picture?

Take it out.

Take it in a very different sense.

totally different sense well we i know i've been the one that says i need to look at experts around but i'm not sure that you'll hear anything more than the help for the reason that you take for example the uh whatever it passed her back she went totally without a staff you know

She didn't have anybody.

No, I'm a television producer.

No, that's right.

She didn't have anybody to tell her where to stand.

I think that came off very well.

Karen was looking in, and she was being very natural.

I think that staging it too much, frankly, didn't get it.

me feeling irritated, especially in this kind of thing.

When you go through the routine things at the White House, you do need some stuff.

I think it's fine.

And he comes in and he, like at the State of the Union, he said, don't look up.

Those lights are very black.

Just be sure you look down in here where the camera is.

I knew it before, but I was nice to be reminded of it.

That's it.

But I don't want him, you know, tagging along when I'm outside and rushing up to him.

He's telling me he can't lose.

I mean, whatever he does, it's going to be good until China.

We've just got to wait and catch this guy.

Now, on the client, I think we've just got to put it to the client that he's going to go to Russia.

And he is, but that we just can't.

And that's that.

I think we've also got to put it to two or three others that they aren't going to.

Maybe I don't think, maybe you shouldn't take skeleton off, but she can.

Rush is no problem.

I mean, it probably would be nice to climb, but I know her, but, you know, we have done a lot for her, though, it makes sense, but I don't, look, I wouldn't do it on the basis of doing it for her.

The only, well, now, when you talk about everything, you're not down on that, basically.

The only thing that I kind of,

But maybe it was worth reconsidering.

It's what my plan is in terms of the fact we have got to keep a hell of a lot of emphasis on domestic issues.

And he's got to stay here and emphasize those domestic issues.

I heard him going into it.

So, you know, and show us the rest.

And rather than stay in the foreign policy than the Soviet thing comes along, that's what it is.

I just don't believe that Herb Glenn Brown talked about my challenge.

I frankly think that story is going to be so big that we're not going to have to have salesmen around talking about it.

That's my view, but I may be wrong.

That's right.

It's a, it's a, I like it, but I don't think there's, I mean, also, it is when he ranks too high.

He's just another high-ranking person that has to sit, you know, in everything.

See, the beauty of it, some of the others, is that they don't rank that high.

Well, and that's, see, we've got it down to where, you know, your official party is, is, tell me, can we cut the, how many military aides do you take?

Two.

Why two?

Why not one?

Because of covering different cities?

You really think you'd be running and talking?

I don't know if you do.

Yeah, you do.

You really do.

They do.

I tell them a lot.

For one thing, we're going to use Brennan as an alternate also in working with Mrs. Sensco.

And she's raised the question of who's going to work her.

Now, we've got one of the advancement will be assigned to her.

Mike Schrock will be working with her at her schedule.

But there's a lot of ground she's covering independently.

And because of the three cities,

This is a horrendous schedule.

I didn't, you know, we've gotten bottled into an awful lot of stuff here.

This flowing hang channel is really ridiculous, but...

I'm sorry.

A lot of people are trying to survive the goddamn talks.

We'll get through the schedule and get back.

We all know it's going to be hard.

Well, it's, in some ways it is, in some ways it's not.

The problem is we're staying too damn long.

That's what's wrong.

I told you that at the time.

Yes, sir.

A five-day visit was right, an eight-day or eight-day is wrong.

Why the hell did he overrule us that day?

Huh?

He just got over there.

They really put the pressure on him.

They really wanted you to go to Ang Chang.

He's just enormous enough to them.

So we'll go to Ang Chang.

Ang Chang, yeah.

But both of those are totally useless from your viewpoint.

They're anti-climactic and useless.

Well, who knows whether they're useless?

Well, you never know.

You never know where to start.

Yeah, that's absolutely right.

The hang channel of the crowd may break through the barriers.

Yeah.

It may have something that historically would never happen.

As you point out, in Russia, all your good stuff is out of Moscow.

That's correct.

You never know.

And maybe not in Moscow.

You'll see probably all the same, deadly dull.

Well, that's what they think, because they're so totally disciplined.

They are.

All our guys say there is just no way that anything spontaneous can possibly happen.

That would be written in Russian, said by people of all ages.

All right, but that reflects on the Chinese.

On the other hand, on TV, the staging will be such, they do a good job of making it look like there's a lot of stuff happening.

People will get a pretty good impression, probably.

I wish the crush could get a ride on the down here.

He's very tired, you know, and I see why he worked at 3.30 in that goddamn speech.

You can see that he was physically and mentally exhausted here.

He's got to be sharp tonight.

Let me see if we can get around that.

In fact, this is one instance where we have a plane flying and we're looking down on him.

Well, I see your point, but I just don't think, I think we ought to wheel it fine on the basis that basically his stuff is primarily domestic anyway.

It really is, and should be, and should be.

He works that area, and that's wages, it's too bad for everybody.

or even wanted to go to, but he can't because his stuff is domestic.

All right.

So, you know, significance of his going would be, I'm not sure, but the significance of your going would be, look like we pulled out all our plugs for time and try to care about anything else.

That's right.

And you've got to have somebody here who cares about the domestic thing.

You might say Colson wanted to go or let him talk.

He didn't.

He never asked.

I'm not sure if he didn't ask because he knew he wouldn't be able to.

You know, Dan, once a month ago, every captain officer had a reason he should go.

You just got to say, you've got to go.

And it's definitely going to save you.

We don't owe you another damn thing.

We really don't.

No, no.

That's right.

We've got him hurt, considering his abilities.

He's done extremely well.

And he'll go on doing it.

I wish his son was as well.

And to say that we wanted to stay here and work this domestic front for all its worth.

And then, I would say a little bit on the Russian trip.

He's been to Russia and should go back there.

And we're going to cut some others out of that.

And I think we should.

I don't want to take the whole staff to Russia, for example, you know, unless on a period we're dropping.

I think you're arguing about this.

This technical question that may arise as to whether Rose and Pat are the only two, I'm saying, should be on the official party or the unofficial party.

Normally they would, and properly should be on the unofficial party, which doesn't, in this

benefits and all that kind of stuff.

It only would relate to standing in a receiving line, probably.

And it's just a question of whether, you know, what it looks like, Ted, whether you want your secretary in the thing.

They never have been before.

And, you know, we overdo it with her.

If you put Rose up there, I think you ought to put Pat in too.

I would.

It's no cost.

No cost to us.

And having a woman in the goddamn thing is too bad.

We do overdo it over there, I must say.

We overdo it totally.

I'm not damn sure that she knows she's got to work in this thing.

What other girl is going to go with what other girl is going with this thing for the work?

There's Henry's taking two girls.

through public apologies?

I think they do.

You know, we can't, we can be foolish about cutbacks.

Secretary, it's the wrong thing.

Secretary said that you can't cut.

I know that.

All right.

Henry's taking two.

We're taking one White House percentile, which would be Nell Yates.

That's the one we've got.

You've got a margin?

Yes.

On a general basis, if he understands how to do all the significant stuff, all the good advancement,

stuff and all that, in addition to being able to travel for years.

And Rogers is taking one secretary.

And that's it.

We're gliding through the bones.

We really are.

It still ends up with a lot of people.

You can't come to Secret Service anymore.

I don't think we can.

One of the things that's interesting, we're starting to get some bounce on it, looking at the sensitivity thing.

People are afraid something's going to happen.

That's right.

And we're starting, that's one of the negative stories they're going to start to build.

This is a stupid, this isn't a brave president taking any possible risk for peace.

This is a foolhardy president jeopardizing his own safety and thereby the security of the country for a grandstand move.

And we've got to be careful not to get that.

We're going to get some bad amounts for the fact that you're not taking your car.

We're going to get some bad amounts from the fact that you're flying in a Chinese airplane.

And we really will, because we, everywhere else in the world, we, in this country, you go in your airplane and you go in your car, which is popular.

And we all know you're safer in China than you are in Chicago, but that's not a,

Totally.

And they're starting to, you know, the nationalist Chinese are starting to build a story on that now.

Yeah.

Floating things with their intelligence has told them that they'll end up out.

The option is they're going to start it.

The nationalist Chinese have been incredibly bad at telling some party about the mainland.

I wish it were better.

Well, I think this is true out of their intelligence.

I think it's propaganda.

I think they're going to have to try and hurt the trip.

Sure.

Yeah, I think... All right.

What we're demanding is that you, we have, you don't think that you can reverse a car, do you?

No, sir.

I'm just saying, I'm not ready to change any of this.

No, sir.

Have a look.

I think we've done a good job of grinding, I'm sure you have.

There's damn few areas where I can see that we have any.

There aren't any here, because we've gone over and over again.

We have to grind out one more body here and one more there.

And we're going to be short a lot of things that you won't notice the difference, but everybody else will, Henry.

Bill Rogers, White Rock.

Communication.

We are going to have telephone facilities like they're used to on a trip.

We're not going to have a bandstand to get everybody into place all the time.

People are going to have to follow their orders.

They're going to have to read their own schedules for a change instead of having a keeper take them where they go all the time.

We've caught people.

What you've got to do, because they do everything wrong.

But we've got a small enough party here, and it's a good enough party that we can handle all this.

We'll have problems with people like Marshall Green and Al Jenkins, some of them that don't know how we work, but

Don't look at it.

And Henry's got a damn small staff and he's used to having a, hell, a record of it.

Well, he's got a record now, but it isn't quite what he's used to.

And he's gonna have to work on a lot of substantive stuff, presumably.

But that'll just be working around the clock.

And everybody's gonna be, and we're gonna have a,

One of the things that concerns me a little is how we handle the follow-up on this.

I suppose it'll bounce hard enough that we won't have to worry too much about it, but following your theory of working hard on some things are up instead of focusing on it.

When we get back, we're going to have a hard time keeping people going, I think.

And I think maybe we're going to need to for a while.

Oh, sure.

Always.

What do you mean, keeping what people going?

The people that have been on the trip.

Well, that's trying to go out.

But it's, you know, they're going to be pretty, pretty well done in physically, I guess.

They will be, but for two or three weeks, they'll be out.

Well, except they'll get advanced.

Yeah.

On the advanced trip, out of 42 people or whatever, 24 of them were seriously sick.

They were.

And, uh...

It was time change, food, and exhaustion.

They died.

They got cold.

The cold weather is just cold as hell.

And you're in and out, working.

Of course, they worked awful hard.

That adventure crew worked, apparently, through the night, most of the nights.

But we'll see.

And we've still got Ken Ryland on here, if you want to take him.

I don't think that's a, I don't want, I don't want, I don't think you need another one of the doctors you had, Warren, but no other.

But with the number of people, we've got that two doctors.

Well, then that's right on the second doctor.

You have to have two for the reason that one might get cocked out is not the reason.

Or else.

And the number of people you've got to cover.

Yeah, you've got to cover that.

See, they had one doctor with the advanced party, and he was run raggedy just because he was drinking 23 cents.

Now, Riley, however, will be the second doctor.

Or do you have a floor?

I don't think so.

If he does, it goes as far as the press party.

Well, let's have Riley go as the second doctor.

He's glad to do it, Bob.

He does that in a rock and roll trip.

You know, he prescribes the clothes and all that bullshit.

This show is only his.

And then start the Takashi.

Yeah.

And then Dr. Arden.

Good.

I think you need two, Bob.

I think you need two.

You're right.

Why, Takashi's got to be available always for me.

And somebody's got to be available for the others.

There will be some sickness.

Yeah.

Well, there's always a time of search, even in normal places.

I went to the pack.

It was like college tour going.

The food was repressed, but I overran it.

I was in Harlem.

our own press people, and I think it's better.

I don't think they'll want to get into a divide in that country.

I just, I want to make damn sure we've got a, you know, that her schedule goes right.

I've got Mike Schrock, who is handling that, has, I think, done a hell of a good job.

They've got it well laid out to start with.

She was concerned about her television coverage question, but boy, there's no problem on that.

She's going to be

Just to tell you.

Mike probably had a very good conversation with her on the whole thing.

One problem was they were going to use her to do the petroleum factory, so he wouldn't have to.

And she doesn't want to.

So we'll probably go over to an art museum or something just to .

And what?

problems and the benefits from taking a county steward or aggregating a herd.

Because she'll be covered by the same press that you will.

It's not a set up thing.

The time she is in independent activity will be times when you aren't being covered.

The other time we'll be together.

You're together quite a bit as a matter of fact.

Sure.

Well, I'm glad we raised the most apparent question.

He's not to go.

We're doing an operation.

We're trying to get a living dick in Spain.

That's not, that's great.

He's fine and everything, but he'd just be like a bum in the law.

Well, I talked to Lloyd about it on this, and to Alex.

I said, you know, just, am I, my gut feeling is it's ridiculous, but am I wrong?

What should we have in there?

And they said it would be a terrible problem to have in there.

There's just absolutely not a goddamn thing for him to do.

That's right.

and a real problem on what you do with it, because he's, you know, he's an ambassador, and he's a ranked man, and he, see, I'm no problem.

I'm the only ranking person there who doesn't have a, you know, a substantive role, and with anybody else, there is a hell of a part in what you do.

The rest of our crew, we've got a group here that know their places, know what they're supposed to do.

They've double-teamed every one of them.

So we're doing the right thing on Klein.

We're doing the right thing on Mosbacher.

We're doing the right thing on Mark Good.

Correct.

I like that a lot.

But there again, I think that looks too telepathic.

I agree.

It looks too, you know, our television producer goes along.

And, you know, just going thin is not a bad idea.

That's why we want Al Snyder.

What's Gallagher over there?

Give Gallagher something to do like that, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And frankly, we've got others too.

Well, we can be very helpful.

You can?

Right.

You can have a load of work.

In fact, it's up to you.

Give him assignments to move in and out of.

That's a very good idea.

And let all of them have the assignment.

He surely won't downgrade past stuff.

She's got to have, I mean, put an important, put a Buchanan with her to follow along.

She has confidence in Buchanan.

And he can go around with her, sort of.

write the story when he comes back, and I'll need you to do a damn good job, sir.

So this is pretty general, you know, before we go, all these people specifically, Henry's got his team.

You've got a perfect relationship with all the other people, because Ray Price, you know,

Sapphire have all been on trips with us.

Buchanan has never been on with us.

He went to Russia, but not with us, correct?

And we'll take Brady to Russia, which he knows.

They're ready to go, isn't it?

We might add Sapphire on that, too.

That's one of our... We will have a hell of a lot of substance, we think.

I think, as a matter of fact, we will take both, because we'll have a bigger restaurant there.

Yeah.

Well, you have an arm, especially.

Because the Russians love you.

Because they'll love me.

And I think, well, they will.

They have a lot of...

Boy, I read that this morning and couldn't believe it.

You would give Larry a call.

Yeah.

Yeah, right now.

Ah, right.

Is there a case for lunch?

No.

You, uh, uh, uh, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

4 o'clock if you do that.

If not, drive out.

Okay.

T. T?

T. I know.

Yes, sir.

See, I got the infection now.

God, I don't like it.

I don't want to walk.

He didn't get the inner ear, actually.

That's what scares you, because you can't.

You lose your equalization.

I'm just doing it as a proposed attempt.

Really, it's a repeated attack on me.

I'm not sure he wants to do that.

I think I'll have a budget presentation.

I don't care.

I don't think I should be here.

It's been a long time, hasn't it?

I can say this.

Cut it back to 20 minutes.

Cut from 1 a.m. to 15 minutes, because I'll need, perhaps, 20 minutes.

Yeah, just say that we need to take a break and leave a little more time.

Save those points.

Just kind of save those points.

All right.

It's time to do this, I think, in 10 minutes, perhaps.

But it can be done in 20 minutes, and we can kind of prevent the rates out of that.

Sure.

Stein was only 10 and he was in the backseat.

Stein.

Oh, he's great.

All right.

Oh, he's right here.

Right here.

With, uh...

I'll stop coming.

I'll make all the changes.

Okay.

We, uh... We are... We are... We are... We are... We are...

Try to lift up the wall.

You've got some ideas today.

If you just stop right now, you will not have any effect on me, nor give me to reject you.

I'll let you think.

But to start my preaching for you, you should probably have to get up.

We have been conducting negotiations with secret channels for months.

We have not received a response.

Now, actually, 30 months ago, in the fall of 1969, I decided that we should try to negotiate a secret agreement with Leonardo in Paris.

You know, he is not here.

He is a man here.

We worked out a deal with the French on it.

to land at a French military airport for the auction of a plane to be carried to the border of the world.

The borders of the United States will bring cars and carry them down the secret way with house, country, birth.

They have a song to sing and a song to sing.

There it is.

I'll let Ryan hear it now.

You did change it to the other side.

This is a little better.

The main thing is that it's, I can see a sentence quicker.

Well, I did because it doesn't, uh, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't track.

There was one sentence that Henry told you to take out here.

Uh, Deseret wants to change the name.

Oh.

This, uh, this is, uh...

I haven't written an end against those three in a while.

Shake the conference table.

He added that from Conway.

I know.

So we'll do that over again.

No, no, you won't do it over, because I'll have you strike it off.

Hi, Henry.

With your view and now that we sure should not take out the only thing that had been settled in Paris to achieve the compensation, you want to leave that or take it out?

Huh?

Now wait, let me see this.

The best they were going to have was there.

When you're really getting ready.

10, 25.

I put that in the line to let you know that you were starting into that last.

Yeah, well, the way I did it.

Yeah, okay.

If you'd like to just hear something.

I think it's going to be just as well with me.

Supposedly, both of you will be here.

Clear the room.

I took a run at... God, I can't.

I raised a little money without knowing about this board activity.

We told you about it.

Do not be delayed for much longer.