Conversation 656-005

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I'm upset this way.

Don't give me eyes that I don't see if you have a seal there.

You probably want to use the seal.

Put them over there.

You got a cover?

I didn't really feel like that.

The wind's coming through.

I'll hang the head and I don't want to try this one.

I don't want to hang this one.

Ja.

Two o'clock on a tree.

I believe that was your plan.

He had a plan, too.

It's fine.

I wrote.

Yeah, how are you?

Fine.

How did the party go last night?

They...

They got good.

That's good.

Well, I thought that would give them a different question.

They didn't have to bitch so much.

Yeah.

Good.

What is the...

It's very important to re-put the troops hard on the reaction stuff, because it's predictable.

The Times says reactions mentioned in quiet stories that no converts were made.

That's all my point is.

My point is, I think we have to really get in line, and people like that, you know, they are really great to help on this sort of thing, and anyone who's required international, and that they should tell the truth, or do you have anything in mind, or do you see the necessity for this, or do you agree with me?

My point is, certainly are we doing things, that's the point that I have.

At the outset, it's pushing the positive side, which is obviously what you want to do.

Most of what we've gotten has been about what we want.

Some of it has been what you'd expect.

I mean, the Santorini opiate types are going to squeal, and you're never going to get enough water for testing that.

I mean, I expect someone else has got to take them on.

And now, what we need, which is what you were talking about last night, that we've got to get...

The attacker types on our side to attack the people who get the points on the other side.

In other words, to attack the devices to make the point that the president called for are going together on this so that we could get something done.

They have attacker devices, but also polishers.

Yes sir, we are here.

You know, and that put it out, so as they were, it's got something to put out.

Yeah, we had a whole batch of, last night, they started with this kind of heat, and it just ran down the list of enormous reactions and so forth from across the country.

Do you understand what I mean?

Sure.

Don't just, you've got to, you've almost got to spoon-peek the cigarette or anything like that, so that he's got...

Thank you for watching!

Because I think a letter is better on both sides.

What time is your meeting?

10.45.

Fine.

As soon as you finish, come back in.

Tell them, are they still there?

Yes.

Are they out?

Yes.

Oh, no, no.

Good.

Okay, we'll be finished.

We've got one, just, just, we're set up, we can really make some hay out of that, that goddamn McGovern thing about the president lying on the, on the... That's one that I'm going to...

I know, I know.

He says you lied that they didn't demand the overthrow of the Chinese government.

He knows that the North Vietnamese did not demand the overthrow of the Chinese government.

They only asked that we withdraw our support, withhold our support.

What did you say?

He's got overthrow in the...

We can document it.

They make two depositions for us.

One withdraws for it, which in the end has a valuable consequence of all the drugs.

But they went beyond that and specifically asked us to replace it.

We have it.

That's it.

We have it.

We've documented it without any question.

And if you press us too hard, we'll release it.

I just say it.

Why don't you say it?

The North being the Medes, deny this.

We'll release it.

Put it that way.

I say it.

So, I mean, that's the point you get off.

Europe, I want to say, would you have heard that?

Yeah, that's right.

I think so, that's right.

And there he is.

He was there this morning.

He said he was going back.

Well, it was a great hour, John.

We loved the old man.

So we're glad to have you here.

Right.

Well, well, well.

Well, you're here.

You're always with us, and I do appreciate it, Paul.

We can pick up some of the stuff like this, and make some mileage out of it.

It's no matter debating, it's a matter of naming these people for lying.

I agree.

Well, we got it.

You know, one thing I heard, he was in much better shape than I was.

It was great for you to have him up there last night.

I'll make a call to him, I'm sure Dan writes.

But we got it.

See, I didn't want to talk to you about it before the speech, but we got the impression that he had us just...

Several of us were really concerned after the staff briefing because he had his lousy job.

Kissinger is worse.

He came in.

He sounded depressed.

I knew he was.

He sounded depressed.

And he...

One through this recital of how the peace talk, how his efforts at secret diplomacy had failed.

That's what it was.

Well, I don't know.

Well, well, have you, will you please go back and read his first draft?

Okay.

I've never seen it.

Get the first draft.

I've got it.

Well, listen, it was really scary, because you got the impression, I must say, that what you were going to do was go on TV and announce that, ladies and gentlemen, sorry to say that, but really what had happened was, well, we turned that around, that's what we were saying, you know, he got mad, because they started asking questions.

Because he shocked these people.

And they were, you know, these are good, this is our way of getting people on the bench.

And, you know, we're looking at them.

He says these people don't give a damn about the substance, they only care about the power.

And I said, Henry, if somebody doesn't care about the politics or any substance, you might as well realize that now.

But then, according to Scala, by the time he got to the press briefings, he was just totally different here.

And he did a good job with the state defense people.

making sure that we have them on the track.

And so it is.

What are we going to do?

If that hand was wrong, he should have announced it too, offered to resign first, and then come up with the peace proposal, so that you got the much better Mrs. Patti, that PR plan.

He said that?

Yeah.

Put Henry there?

Yeah.

He should have announced, well, what do you mean?

Had he read the speech?

No.

But his point was, you had a great news story in the two-step-down, and that he should have used that.

And then a couple of days later, he should have gone off.

Let two Anansis step down, and a couple of days later, he's proposed.

I mean, is that just people?

Two Anansis?

Of course not.

But the point is that even if he would have, it would not have been wise.

He's always nitpicking everything we do.

Well, plus, he's a dead ball.

I'm sure you're right.

I mean, if he came out, I'm not sick of it.

He did this as a budget reason.

As a budget reason, he did it again this morning.

He just is a current adventure.

Well, the problem is the contracts that is terrible to keep comparing people.

Contracts have been coming.

Coming if you ask you.

How should we do this?

He'll tell you.

If he thinks you're doing something wrong, he'll say, I think it would be better to do two first, and start on that.

But when there's a confronted decision, he never says it.

He only looks for it.

He never goes and appreciates that it's something wrong.

I was just sitting here about all day.

Hasn't it really pissed you off today?

Oh, you're so goddamn negative these days.

Get one.

Got one.

God, but he hadn't heard the speech from the listeners.

The other point was, though, that, you know, you were there for the budget meeting, weren't you?

Remember the same thing?

And, Jesus, he's a nice guy.

I remember when I used to sit in that chair for a year, you remember, I'd sit there and swallow it, but I was always trying to buck up for us, and all that, and you did the rest of it.

God, that's the quietest thing.

Always have to raise the news.

He, he, he sounds as if he's on the other side.

But it wasn't Goldwater's.

Ha!

God, he's refreshing.

Now that's stuff about sticking something up down there, throw it down there, throw it and put it up the other way until it meets.

Ha!

That's what it is.

Probably many things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is.

Goddamn, I just heard a blast.

I must say, you just got me down, that's all.

You shouldn't do it in front of other people.

Is there anything more?

I've got another 15 minutes.

Should we get Colson in now again, or is he off?

Don't need to.

It's probably kind of productive.

Frank's done a hell of a lot of stuff.

I'm sure he's talked to other people.

He's got Stanley going.

Stanley's all fired up.

He's got Sapphire working on some backup stuff.

Now let's get out of here.

They might not say it.

I mean, when I said it, I said it.

Of course, most of the leaders are all good.

And to put a goddamn damper on me?

Shit, I thought they should have had that.

They should have been up there saying, God damn it, we're all for it, and this and that.

Shit, I mean.

Part of the problem is he wouldn't have been so good at it.

Do you know about it?

Well, he knows he is going to be consulted.

I encourage him to do it.

I think he ought to be here soon.

But that... Well, maybe he didn't sign the contract.

Well, you know, that's true shit, though.

You turn Henry around.

You know what happens?

You turn him around by being pretty rude.

It'd be like sometimes he means a little bit.

But you've got to do it carefully.

The question, see, those guys are just straightforward, honest people, and that drives Henry mad.

He thinks, he says, that is not a loyal group.

You know, they are not supportive.

And I say, God damn it.

You know, he's like, yeah, I spent an hour with them afterwards, and they're trying to patch him back together.

You know,

And I think he would rather have concluded the thing with a big

He knows that negotiations fail.

He's taken these problems.

If you remember, every time he came back and says, we've made progress, he was tired, it looks better.

And the people was better, and they were nicer.

But this time, he really got them going.

And I think we're going to get it.

Remember, he'd say there's a 25% chance.

Now there's a 50-50 chance that he'd find people to blame all the way along.

Rockets, and they know they're not good.

Of course, I was always the pessimist.

And he tried to say, well, hey, leave them up to this and the reason.

My mom really looked at it, and so forth, thinks there's been a change, and so forth.

And there never was, you see, because Henry, the heir of Henry, was doing wishful thinking.

But the other side of it was, which he always said, even if it doesn't work, we're making a record.

And he made a hell of a record.

He didn't have to pay it off, and that's a record that's worth one.

And that's why I think he feels up today, because he realized it did pay off.

He was still up, not saying anything, after she had been up there in the center for a while.

He says, this is writing so well that I don't think I should do my press conference tomorrow.

You know, I was hoping it would just get in the way of Ron talking about it.

I'm sure it should.

I've wondered about it too, but I think he should.

I think there's...

The point is, we can't just ride on the headlines.

We're dealing with a bunch of dumb people.

So we've got to have this explained to them over and over.

And it pays off.

Now, Martin Kalb did a hell of a job for us last night.

I hate to admit it, because I hate to admit it.

Because Henry Green did it because Scali spent 15 minutes with him after the briefing.

Going back over, simplifying the points.

See, Henry thinks Martin counts a great intellectual.

Scali knows that Martin counts a great intellectual, and that you've got to boil it down.

See, Henry doesn't like that.

Scali boils it and simplifies it, and he says, you know, Scali, you know, Scali's a great intellectual.

Well, Henry does like it when I take this.

Well, no, he can't complain about it when I take the stage, because he knows I have to deliver it.

But I know that he was horrified at my first draft.

You know, he thought that, well, maybe it was a little better, but we kept working and working and working, and I kept cutting and cutting and cutting.

I know that, for that Bill Sapphart, who was a soldier,

But now, for instance, Cal is a guy now, he's committed, in a sense.

To our root, at least for the moment.

And I think Scali should move in now, as he intends to, and just play the hell out of Cali.

Rather than admit it the other way, rather than start to piss on it.

Okay, that's good.

You know why?

I think it will affect you.

I think it will affect you, you know.

That you, I recall that you said, I think you owe President Nixon an apology, you know, for on this thing.

Something like that.

Why don't you come on?

He was squealing last night.

He kept trying to turn it.

It was really kind of funny.

Because he said, well, this makes it absolutely clear now that we won't have all the troops out of Vietnam before the election.

Cal said, no, it doesn't at all.

I said, we would.

I said, we'll go either way.

But he was, they were talking about the time sequence that Segurado was saying, well, it would be, you know, they'll have to discuss it for a few weeks, perhaps maybe a few months, and then they'll move to the sixth month.

And he would have rather added those up and immediately came out with what would be done by November.

He kept trying to put it in the election context.

The others will make the point that this is related to the election.

We wouldn't have our troops up in November if we hadn't agreed on a ceasefire.

We'd have appealed about this back, so it wouldn't have been great.

We would have held care to leave at 25,000.

You'd have most of them out, and you'd be on a course of... Oh, we'd have peace about peace, and see what we shoot at the end.

Did you see Star?

Shit, I got them out of Korea.

And it's... 20 years later.

That's good, then.

But that, we can work that kind of thing.

We've got...

Now, for instance, Brad Morris has got a letter, maybe Chuck told you, from a posse saying, if Nixon did this, this, and this, then I would not run.

Well, you've done it.

Now Brad Morris is going to call it and withdraw from the race, as he said he would.

And the thoughts we're getting all the way through is just,

The shoring up of credibility.

I wasn't sure whether this would go one way or it could have bounced either way.

Remember ours?

Yeah.

And it could have.

It could have bounced the other way of credibility, but it hurt the credibility because you've been doing something behind the secret, behind your back, behind the people's back.

McCloskey's playing that out, though, that he isn't going to get anything out of it because all the others are going just the other way.

And the whole thing, McCloskey said, why do we go behind the people's back?

Yeah.

It was...

More to see, you know, something.

Well, now let's be sure that we get off the ground.

We've got to, that's right.

We're calling in on that.

The right is apparently solidly with you.

Which also surprises me, because your clothes, I think, helped a lot there.

The United States will never do that.

So, I thought we might have to get the right turn off again.

It sure as hell has gotten the attention taken away from the button.

I think we were very lucky that it was this week instead of last week.

Probably.

Because now it can ride.

And at the point we were just talking about, I think we've really got to work on it.

It's not just, we've got to get the instant reaction set.

We've got to not do that at the expense of the people.

Because...

We're going to have to keep this thing going for a while.

Well, they'll be here in a couple of years.

But that's when we've got to keep it going all the way.

At least that was our plan yesterday.

I assume you don't intend to back off of it.

No, sir.

That was the point we were making.

Keep America united.

I thought that was the leaders today.

United America.

Of course, it's our first reaction.

You know, it's quite a bit interesting that the...

So many people currently like the delivery of the speech.

Just another off thing.

You know what?

We haven't done one in a while.

We had two economic ones, and that doesn't have any.

But you know, the Vietnam speech is all we have.

It was delivery together with the speech.

I think a lot of you got the impression that you covered, which was true of course, a very complex thing, and yet came through with it.

You understood afterwards what you'd done.

I don't think anybody can go back and recite it.

I don't think they know step by step, but they understand the process.

They understand the sequence that developed here.

All came through very clearly.

And it is good to look at.

That style, for that kind of speech, is very good.

When you sit in the chair, you read the speech, you hold it there, you don't pretend, you don't screw around with the teleprompters and all that stuff.

And I just think you're absolutely right on that.

And you look up an awful lot.

It's like the speech I've had.

You read it, but you're looking into the camera a good deal of the time.

Oh, it's in that way.

I wonder maybe if we might just sign the economic report today, and then it will look better tomorrow.

And I don't think it's a story that you're creating, but I mean, I mean, we don't really need a story tomorrow.

I'm just thinking that we might have tomorrow off, you know, like Tuesday off.

I'm going to start reading.

We're not doing anything on the schedule tomorrow, I think, or maybe there's some bad scanning, maybe.

We'll look into it in Google.

Scanning.

What party?

Friday, you know.

Friday night, okay.

Uh, there's not a reason to have it the way we want it.

The reason I say that we give it to the Congress today may be my story.

You see, I don't intend to have a press picture anyway.

I think it makes the difference.

We're going to announce stands and things tomorrow.

Oh, Christ, I need to be here to do that.

Do you want to go out and eat or something?

I don't know.

Oh, I guess I'll be here.

What do you want to do?

Go on up to Camp David or something?

Yeah, I'll take you to Camp David.

I'll help.

Oh, why not?

Oh, I don't understand.

Oh, yeah.

I know.

The economic report I can sign today, I need to look at the picture of tomorrow.

I'm just saying.

Yeah.

Scan up the ship.

Do the economic report after the quarter end meeting today.

Yeah.

I'm sorry about the time on that, but that was my question.

I was curious too, John Connolly, he couldn't do it.

I just thought you... We only did it for John.

He has to leave at 3.30 or so.

You know, I mean...

You know what I mean?

That's the big deal.

That's no surprise.

The story's out, and so it isn't any big bombshell announcement.

I mean, the point is that you can't do it twice.

Oh, God.

You wouldn't swear it out.

That's the story.

Well, we've done most of it twice.

You know, you trot butts out, and then you swear it in.

Oh, that was...

Actually, you could run through a...

Some morning stuff, and then going up to Camp David at noon and come back.

Time for a parcel on Friday if you wanted to.

Yeah, because you've got that dinner.

It's not the dinner.

The Wallace.

It's probably not dinner.

But you're clear Saturday and Sunday.

You can go on Saturday morning.

Yeah, we can go to Camp David if I wanted to prepare.

We stacked it all in the morning together anyway, because I've been trying to get some clear time for you for China stuff.

And I think we ought to...

Yeah, we ought to start, because we've made the point of your great preparation for these trips, and that you're not going into China on, you know, your eyes closed and all that, and we know, I mean, you've done the preparation work, but I think we ought to start saying you're doing it now.

We ought to have the stacks of briefing books and all that sort of stuff, and preparations for the discussions, because...

I think we probably, for appearances sake, there ought to be a couple of sessions with you and Rogers and Henry.

Where, I'm not sure if we put out the...

I think Bill would like to do this now.

Bill, you have the zone here on the spot.

Henry was coming back again before his press briefing.

I don't know where he is.

He's gone.

It's all right.

Anyway, I think we ought to start building that.

We'll say that in the spare time that there is, we ought to start pumping down as being China time.

If you don't think that's what it's like to do my purposes on that.

Well, I could go up to my office tomorrow and say I'm going out to do some reading, prepare for my camp.

You could do that.

If I go to camp, it'll be interruptions.

If I go 30th Avenue, I could say I'm going out to do some reading, time away from here to do some preparation.

And I'll be back the next day.

I got on top of this counter-attack that decided to kick my arm in the ass.

I had to, I mean, I had to kick a Klossy in the ass.

It was really tough.

I tried to get the leaders off.

I was getting them to kick my arm in the ass.

It was a, it really, you know, I didn't practice back then.

We really put it to a market, not the goddamn war, great crowd, goddamn park.

And I think we've got a better, certainly a better initial bounce from the media than we thought.

And we figured they'd launch back.

And I think they will.

They have, yeah.

Mr. President, I heard he's about to start his briefing now.

It's at 3.30.

It figures it will be over about 11.30.

Unless he has a guy he should get, he'd like to see him for a moment.

Ja, det er fint.

We're going to be up to our ass in domestic messages.

Yeah, but I mean, it seems to me that's going to make the public news of your interest in domestic affairs.

I don't believe that...

I don't know.

I know that John currently disagrees with me.

My going out and babbling on the television every time I send a message is a good thing, but I'm just bored as hell.

I just don't want to do it.

No, we should let him write just down there.

I'm going to sign that.

I really think so.

Now, you always say, what about the environment message?

What about the drug message?

What about this and that?

Let me find another way.

I think sending a message is not a good way to get a message across.

I really don't think it's a good way.

The only thing, the only thing there, I think we ought to take a stab at a few, are, are, not just on the, uh,

Areas like drugs, stuff, you know, some things where we can make some.

Incidentally, Mindor wants to see you after the meeting with the Prime Minister.

He is so sure of what's the policy about, you know.

Review your discussions with the Prime Minister.

Review them?

For Christ's sakes, is he still the ambassador?

Yeah.

You know, he's returning to his post.

He's here for the meetings.

Never here for the visit.

And, uh, I don't want to get any of your views on the U.S.-European relations.

I really can't even look at France.

You haven't seen it for a long time.

Now, who's recommending that?

Henry?

No.

Well, Rogers is recommending Henry's concurring home.

Of course I haven't seen him for a long time, but... Oh, shit.

I don't think he has a bore.

I mean, he's a nice guy.

He's got that.

We gave you that on the pastor's shift.

Yeah.

And I thought I held it on the pastor's shift.

I thought you said he stood in on the meeting.

Right?

I don't think so, no.

He is who stood in on the meeting.

I didn't do that.

You don't have... Well, he stood in on the meeting.

The pastor's sitting...

Well, God damn it, he can sit in on the meeting.

This is just a courtesy call.

That's the way to be handled.

A privately general meeting will sit in on this too.

Can't we have him?

He's going to the State Department for lunch today.

Bill will give enough stuff on that.

I think you can just leave it at that.

Why don't you sit in on the meeting?

All right.

Put him to the line.

When doors matter, I just like to have him sit in the meeting.

Get him.

Hey.

He'd love to have Bettendorf sit in with this prime minister for any reason he can.

Otherwise, I've got at least a half hour talking to him afterwards.

I mean, is there any reason?

Yeah, you know what I mean?

This guy really shouldn't be sitting even, except he's a Dutchman.

But Jesus Christ, I mean, it's a pure social call, you know, to crap around about some of the stuff and that, but goddamnit, our ambassador sits in.

This is the kind of private talk I usually have.

The ambassador sits in, and then I tell him, I'm sorry, but I'm tied up right afterwards, see?

You see, because they had him on now for a half-hour meeting after the prime minister, and I just don't know how much time has been on hold.

Yeah, so, okay.

What they're trying to do, what they're used to doing with all these things, is a private agenda.

Well, God damn it, this thing, uh,

I thought he was coming back in.

Well, he doesn't need that.

Well, you're going in now for your briefing.

Right, I have to review a few... Good, good.

I have to say, I just want to say that I think the lines are taken fine.

I think that Bob says that they raised this government point that you can read it.

This is what I'm now going through.

I just don't want them to have...

They've never used a good overthrow.

They said change, but you know, you've got to change the government.

Then I say, how are we going to do that?

They said, that's your problem.

You put them in, you know how to get rid of them.

Sure.

They said you know how to get rid of them?

Yeah, you know how to replace them.

Well, that's what we're doing.

And they said, if you make a secret deal with us to get, to replace you... That's over the German government?

Of course.

Then everything else will follow easily.

What do you think are the possibilities of the North Vietnamese?

Well, the North Vietnamese reaction has been very interesting.

How do they respond on this point of order?

I don't think they're going to say that they're not the over the German government.

Do you?

Yes.

So if they hoist you, they won't dare.

If they threat us too hard, we'll just publish the transcript.

I mean, on this one, we're on absolutely safe ground.

Whatever, is there any other points you have in mind?

Well, I was going to...

I bet you want to emphasize, because you're, you know, you're hot property to these damn clowns.

Well, I was going to review how we got to where we are, what the proposals in gross terms were.

Then, first of all, this is our proposal.

This is how we got there.

On May 31st we did this, on August 16th we did that.

Each one of them met their demands.

So now, just so that we narrow the debate, we're down to only two issues.

Withdrawal,

And government.

That's to get the ceasefire one out of the way.

Because I say the ceasefire isn't the issue.

They've agreed to that.

They've agreed to it, or they haven't raised that as an issue?

No, they've agreed in the eight-point plan that's agreed to.

Those are the only two unresolved issues.

So the ceasefire part is just out of the way, and then I'll say now, what is new in our proposal?

We've given up on the proposition of mutual withdrawal, people willing to set a deadline, unilaterally for our withdrawal.

We've agreed to total withdrawal, and then I'll go through this.

Then I'll say,

The only two, but what they want is not a, they don't want a negotiation.

They want a surrender.

They want us to set a deadline that runs irrespective of what else happens, regardless of prisoners, or anything else.

And they want us to overthrow the government and replace it with one of their choosing, regardless of the wishes of the South Vietnamese people.

Those are the two big issues.

And that we cannot get over.

It occurs to me that I was saying, Bob, before you got into the room today, and there was

Just for God's sake.

Son of a bitch.

The fact was that he hadn't read the speech.

He said, well, I didn't, I know you were there, and he said, well, why didn't we offer?

I mean, he says, it wasn't clear.

He had offered a military thing.

I said, we had offered to separate the military from the military, we turned that down.

He said, well, that wasn't clear from the offer.

Well, goddammit, clear?

It was the clearest English I've ever written in my life.

Mr. President, well, I turned to Harlow, and I said, can't you get into his head that he's on the president's side, and that he can fly back here in the middle of a meeting?

He was totally wrong to begin with.

But secondly, at a meeting where he is with the president and congressional leaders, he should support you.

If he has any questions,

Let him come to your office afterwards and say, Mr. President, I have serious reservations about this.

But in front of...

I beg your pardon?

He should come to you and say that.

Or say it to me.

But it's a great mistake for him to, in front of congressional leaders, to give them...

Well, and then congressional leaders will wonder what the hell is going on, and it is even a question if the vice president...

The poor vice president is supposed to be smart as hell.

I mean, he misses the point, Dr. Frank Six.

Nobody can miss the point on that.

I said, period.

They make the choices for them.

We will either negotiate six-month withdrawal and return proceeds for our $50,000, or we will do the other.

The choice is theirs.

He spelled it out.

But the funny thing is...

Bob, don't you remember?

At the meeting yesterday afternoon, he took exactly the opposite task.

The meeting yesterday afternoon, he opposed the proposal of ceasefire and withdrawal.

I can't understand why you stick to ceasefire.

It doesn't mean...

That's right.

Why don't we stick it in and just hold it?

Well, no, he said they can, as soon as we are out, they're going to break the ceasefire.

Of course, but what the hell?

As long as we're pulling out, would we want our tail shot out?

That's a lie.

Well, no, because they've offered us a ceasefire.

But the hell of it is, we can.

It would be a really total abdication if we protect ourselves.

And they can throw all their forces against the South Vietnamese while we are still in the country.

This is just a way of handing over the country.

I say it's no problem.

They've agreed to the formulation we've got in there.

It's from their draft.

And then you can say, well, then they'll come down to a critical point, and why don't you just offer withdrawal for the prisoners?

I said we've offered, first of all, I'll say... Because obviously a ceasefire is to our advantage, and they've agreed to it, so why should we offer something less than that?

And I'll also say, gentlemen, they have turned that one down so often, that when I went in there on May 31st, offering the president's plan of withdrawal for ceasefire, and prisoners, they didn't say, this is fine except for a ceasefire.

They were saying, we won't discuss this at all.

It's got to have a political proposal.

And since then, they, but we cannot, Mr. President, I have to say, we cannot in honor just sell it out.

I think we all suffer from it.

That's my point, we can't.

I'm just trying to get the goddamn tough arguments to throw through.

If you have a ceasefire, it shows actually how weak they are, because if they were strong, they'd accept it.

They'd save withdrawal for prisoners.

Because they should be able to overthrow Laos and Cambodia easily without a ceasefire.

And then they could turn it all against South Vietnam, but they're not confident enough of themselves.

They want us to overthrow South Vietnam.

The reason they don't want to cease fire is that they don't want... No, I mean the reason they would want to cease fire...

I want to go over something.

The reason they want to cease fire is that they want to stop our bombing.

What?

Well, but that they could get with the ceasefire.

No, the reason they don't want the ceasefire... No, no, they want it now.

You see, you were saying they agree.

No, no, they agree that it is part of an overall settlement.

I see.

The reason they don't accept it, the reason they don't accept it... We are willing to separate.

We are not the ones who are there.

We'll separate the issues, or we'll do it in a package, or we'll face it.

The reason, Mr. President, they don't accept it...

who won't accept even withdrawals for prisoners, is because what they want, above all, is for us to stop military and economic aid, to tube them.

That's why I came to the leader and said, after you, they give you an amendment.

Oh, that's a very strong truth, that the Mansfield Amendment, of course, after you give that, so you withdraw regardless of what they do.

Then I was talking about prisoners, and I said, well, we won't give you the prisoners until you

But they are not, if they were confident, they would do withdrawal for prisoners.

They feel that as long as there's military re-pneumatization, they're not going to make it.

That's their problem.

That's their big problem.

Well, anyway, you should feel very good, Henry.

You really learned this thing.

You should feel very good.

And Roger, but I just say, Bob, Agnew just drove me up the wall.

Roger stood up for Trump defending him.

I called Bob and I said, God damn it, Agnew has just got to be shit.

No, but Agnew really was, it wasn't right.

Yeah, but we just had this all the time from him, though.

But you were, I've never known a vice president.

Me?

I used to sit there and defend Eisenhower.

I knew he was wrong.

That's why I had to.

He's the president.

I'm on the team.

You know, it's like the poor guy.

Play is no good at all.

You're going to get clobbered by the defensive left end.

But what do you do?

Run the other way?

Hell no.

You try to knock out the defensive left end and you get clobbered.

In any event, the vice president shouldn't sit there as if he were just one other participant.

He gave you a harder time than the Congress.

The Congress is fine.

They didn't know anything.

You, Scott, I have to say I met with you and Jerry and Ziegler's office and

He might do the one thing that you should make this, to the extent that it does come up, because Sigler just has kinds of difficulties to say this, but you say there's overwhelming support for the proposal cycles.

Can you say that?

If half an opportunity presents itself.

Oh, there really is.

Is it for Sigler and Duran?

We just said, good luck.

Don't, don't, don't, don't feel, don't feel for one moment.

You have to be there at 10.45.

I know it is, but what I mean is, take time to prepare.

Just go in there.

We'll lay it out and be sure that it isn't too complicated for these unskepticals.

I've got a good presentation.

I know.

You have a good presentation.

You were excellent this morning, but what I had is we'll give it to them the same way.

You even had to call Bill all right.

Yes, I have.

He sent me a letter congratulating him.

Of course, I thought he was trying.

He was pretty good.

As long as I tackle that interview in front of the same people.

I still have a promise in Germany.

I may consider it very favorably in my house.

You all need advice.

I have it.

I have it within two or three weeks after we come.

That's right.

Keep your hand on it.

I haven't promised it, but I have said it.

I'm sorry.

Good luck.

Everybody's out there.

You can't get back to a single one.

But don't rush out there until you're ready.

I'll call Ziggler to hold them.

Ziggler should be ready.

Go ahead and go.

Screw them.

They've got plenty of time to write.

They already have.

We can go at 11.15.

If he'll say anything, I'll go to the president.

You said the wire thing has the God bless you kind of thing.

Yeah, that's interesting.

You know, we get those on this kind of thing.

You can tell when there's an emotional issue, but it's thanks for a proposal to end the war.

People will back you, God bless you, from a judge in Winston-Salem.

You were excellent, God bless you, from a guy in Maryland, an admiral in Maryland.

Hardly endorsed these proposals.

We support your policies all the way.

Continue the good work.

Profound thanks for your untiring effort.

Our whole heart is in support of your continued determination to end the war with honor and courage.

Philadelphia.

Behind you all the way.

Connecticut.

Congratulations on the fine speech.

I think you're a very brave and courageous president.

Skarsten.

Wilma.

Thank you, sir, for being our president, and God bless you from a woman in Texas.

We support you for your peace plan 100%, and we are Americans.

We bring the church of the North Vietnam, reprehensible to us as U.S. American citizens.

A couple of American cities are more desperate needs and adverse.

Thanks for your courageous leadership.

You have our support and prayers.

Columbia, South Carolina.

We agree with Mayor Rizzo, you are a great president.

Respectively submitted, Lillian A. Rago, Philadelphia.

God bless you, President Nixon.

Get rid of your inheritance and please get re-elected.

You're evil and you're broken.

A lot of this is basically religious people.

Maybe you're some minority, but you're religious.

We applaud your outstanding forthrightness in your speech for peacetime.

Judge William Garbosi from Apple, Massachusetts.

That's good.

It's interesting.

Thank God the Americans have it.

I believe I have voiced the view of most responsible Canadians when I say thank God the Americans have a president like you with big guts and gall to stand up and face the foes of freedom, the way you did in your courageous and inspiring speech tonight.

Keep up the good work.

Sincerely, Mrs. Joseph Patrick Kennedy from Winnipeg, Minnesota.

I just want to place back the generation of peace.

Your initiative for a generation of peace.

I don't know about now.

I will say to you right now, this is to be very sharp.

They know that.

Does anybody know that?

Or even if you don't know it, it doesn't work that way.

I will say it.

It can't go beyond five minutes to twelve.

I don't give a damn what happens here.

No.

So I'm going to spend time with you.

If you're ready to have a seat, please.

You're making exactly the right decision.

I'm going to back off a little bit.

I'm going to back off a little bit more.

Thank you very much.

The client just said he's got to be here to handle the domestic truck.

I put it that way.

We just can't run the whole domestic council over there.

And that's a fairly important argument.

He's going to like it, but that's the argument.

There's a lot going on.

There is.

He's got to be here, and he's going to hold it on for him as far as he lets it go to Russia.

Mr. President, Prime Minister Di Zergo, and the entire Prime Minister, I would say I do welcome you.

Thank you very much, Mr. President.

You sit there, Bill, and now you sit here.

You don't want to take a picture of your wife.

That's the best you can do.

I know.

Fremont Center.

They produce a lot of tea, don't they?

You probably drank a lot of tea there, so it doesn't really change.

You know, in that direction, you've been there, of course.

In Indonesia, didn't you?

No, I haven't.

No, I've been in India.

I was going to say I've been in Asia.

And of course it was, as it was for all countries in colonial areas, it was difficult to know the wrenching part of the rest, but New Jakarta, New Jakarta, the rest, we have to remember that those who were in colonial powers, in countries like that, left a fine legacy in Magnus Bank's name.

I mean, what you left in terms of the physical appearance and also the education areas and others.

It's well motivated.

Now, of course, we have our dependents, and they've got to move their own way.

Your relationship is good there.

In fact, they watch you right now.

I talked to him so hard.

He said, we keep, because you know the country, and you have, I think one of the points that is very important to like to hear your deal about here in Antioquia and so forth, is that as you move out, you know, and all this, etc., etc.,

Very important to retain as much influence as you can.

They need you.

It's really a tragedy, just speaking here, and we can't say this publicly because of the great devil and so many people, but you know and I know it's a tragedy to see so many of these new countries in Africa and in the Caribbean that are totally...

not capable of running the show.

I mean, that doesn't mean that there's any way to stay.

But my goodness, you take a place like Nassau, in the Soviet area, it's right up the brink of being knocked here at the moment.

The British are getting out, and of course, the poor Soviets are doing their best to try to run it, and throw it straight and dry.

And it really takes a genius to rule in Nassau, but they're doing it.

Now, they'll come back in time, but the point is that the transition could have been a little slower, slower in some way that that presence could have been kept.

Maybe they could make it.

You need to sort of retain that.

We were on the brink of war with Indonesia 10-20 years ago.

Indonesia had a deflection confidence of 600%.

And now, 8%.

Even better than Europe.

I don't know if there's any Dutch prime minister who's been to Indonesia since the independence.

No, not yet.

Not yet.

Our floor time is 2.5 hours.

Yeah, yeah.

Let me, without trying to get into your business, but I think you're good.

This is a terribly important part of the world.

You know, there's still teachers and doctors and so forth who live in Indonesia.

They're a country that wants a private enterprise.

They're not anti either European or white, et cetera, et cetera.

I mean, Sahara is smart enough to know that Sukarno will rule the place.

And sometimes, you know, when you're traveling to that part of the world, I don't know.

I think you kept it longer.

You see, the revolution is too far behind the generation now.

Our queen made a state visitant, which was a big success.

At some point.

I think, for example, in the Pacific area, that gray part of the world, it isn't really a comfortable or healthy position for the United States to be the only non-white power active there.

As I told this to Pete, and of course they retained some sort of a presence now in Singapore, I said it to Dr. Du, and

and suggested that the Germans ought to get a little closer to the Japanese, and they've been, and they are getting closer economically, and they should, and I think that in your case, that you ought not to just resign yourselves to being a very prosperous and a very healthy member of the European community.

That's my view to this.

I agree, I agree, Mr. President.

We have an excellent cooperation in the Intergovernmental Committee, which is dealing with the problems of financial aid to Indonesia, of which your next chair is also in.

You're part of the Dutch, right?

Yes, I am.

The Dutch are in chair.

We added a little bit.

Not quite a lot of art this year.

Because of your attitude, the Japanese, we call them so far too many.

Oh, I know.

You're sure.

The Japanese, of course, think they're very hard partners.

But they've got a whole lot more room to do.

We've all got to help these countries because they're the nation.

We talk about Vietnam and Thailand and Cambodia and the rest.

They're all important, actually.

They're lost people.

So, my god, India's got 140 million people, a thousand miles to go.

Miles.

It is rich.

Resources are just fantastic, you know.

Fantastic.

Now, I remember from my chart, yes, that

Well, tell me about Europe.

And ask me anything you want about what we're doing.

It's in our talks here.

Thank you very much for what you said about Indonesia.

I think that there is a difference between Indonesia and what I've been saying so far, too, in your Pacific relations.

Keep it handy.

Keep it in order.

Not for purposes of colonization or anything.

I mean, that's... No, you don't agree.

I've got to say that.

There's lots of people who are in the Netherlands until I'm not.

Longer colonies.

They are independent members of the kingdom of the Netherlands.

Are they?

They are.

There are people who want more.

Oh, sure.

They want more.

Progressive.

Oh, I don't agree.

I don't.

As soon as we should leave, my view, you get a process of desintegration of those islands, free of the ones that they speak English, they are free Dutch.

Venezuela has some interest, Aruba, or...

But it is a tiny problem, a little problem, but still it is a problem.

How to deal with that in the future, you know.

I personally feel it could be important to keep some time with them.

Yeah, all of them.

I couldn't bring my feeling into the field of defense if it seemed possible.

Yeah.

To help themselves and others come to us.

And mostly the wrong ones.

I don't.

We all don't, yeah.

Well, my views are quite conservative in this respect, and very practical, originally.

If people are able to govern themselves and defend themselves, fine.

If they're not able to govern themselves and defend themselves, then help them develop the capability, but don't go off and leave them.

It's like throwing a poor bird out of the nasty park and fly.

It's foolish.

And you just...

Oh, I learned that from the first time.

Well, I didn't learn that.

I learned it when I drove around the world in 1953, when I was there for 73 days.

I went to 20 countries where my wife was president.

I remember Churchill, the last time I saw him was about 1958.

And he had stroke at that time, and all the rest of them.

He still was sharp enough at the end of the day to correct himself.

But he made it quite, he shared his envy.

So he's calling us to his head.

He said, it's terribly important that we have to find a way of analysis.

Self-government is the most difficult project in the world.

He says, we in Britain have taken several centuries

I said, you gotta remember a couple of years, a couple hundred years ago, we were chopping off the heads of our employees.

I said, now, what are you going to do?

You're not going to leave these people?

That's why some of these nuts, they really are, who are just fanatics, with regard to a way that everybody should have a self-referential, in other words, fragmentize everything.

They're wrong.

For the good of the people.

It is wrong that they're good, that's all.

In Europe, you see, just here, we are just going the other way.

It can't work.

What the hell?

I love it.

Tell us about our national sovereignty and doing that in the Republic.

I see a good guy following that way.

How do you feel about going to Europe?

How do you feel?

How does it work here in Europe?

Historically, the commonwealth, the nation, when the British, when also, especially a country like France, but I think also Britain, are prepared to...

Not only to go the way of economic cooperation and free trade within the area, but also to operate politically.

Right.

That must be known, Jack.

Because when we only make an economic block, then we get into trouble with the rest of the world.

Right.

That's right.

It's an economic competition, to be right.

But I think it is good for ourselves...

And our responsibility is to cooperate politically.

Exactly.

And if you have this economic bloc, it will mean that you will become a political power.

And eventually, I mean, of course we have to go beyond that.

The economic base, the economic cooperation can lead to cooperation in other areas, political, mutual security, and the rest of it.

A strong third force, or fourth force.

We have, basically, as I see it, there are five forces.

As we look at what we can talk about, I don't need to downgrade Latin America, because, who knows, 50 years from now, Brazil would be a great power.

It's coming fast.

I don't need to downgrade Africa, but it's maybe 500 years away.

The rest of Asia is important, especially Indonesia.

But as far as

The power of the world is concerned, the economic and potential of the military.

There's the United States, and of course, there's Europe.

Free Europe.

There's Russia.

There's Congress in China.

And there's Japan.

That's the key.

And it seems to us that the key to our approach is to see that

Try to live with the great communist superpowers, China and Russia, recognizing that our philosophical differences are irreconcilable, but that doesn't mean you have to fight about them.

But it means also that in terms of the other parts of the world, that Japan, the United Europe, and the United States, where we will be strong competitors, all this is inevitable economically.

Because, you know, that's the nature of things.

We're a free nation.

We're a productive people.

All people.

The people of Western Europe, the people of Japan, the people of the United States, we're the most productive people in the world.

And we cannot produce the time to produce our systems better.

It's a free nation.

But we've got to carry that economic competition to keep it in the right channels, have the right kind of monetary system, and have fair rules regarding trade and the rest.

But from the standpoint of the security and the rest, there it must be to get, because we're all in the same box.

Now here's just Japan.

Japan, an economic giant.

militarily addicted because of what happened in World War II.

The United States must constantly reassure Japan, and as our European friends should do so likewise.

They are part of the free world of economy.

But, as far as we the United States are concerned, we assure them of the viability of and our intention to honor our treaty commitment.

Second, the credibility of our nuclear deterrent.

Because otherwise, this great power of Japan, now the third, soon to be the second economic power in the world, is up for grabs.

So we gotta have a home.

They must have a home in the free world.

Right?

Yes.

And so in Europe, in Europe, when you're really looking negative in a sense, this we would not say to our German friends.

Correctly, but you know it's true, and I know it's true.

There are many, many reasons why NATO must continue until there are, and continue its forces, and not have any unilateral reduction.

One of the major ones being that as long as the Soviet Union maintains, the Soviet Union and the bloc maintains its forces, for us to do it unilaterally would be a very, very wrong table for them.

But even if there were no Soviet military threat, you have to recognize the fact that there needs to be a home for the Germans in a free Europe.

And if they don't have a home and a freedom, the Russians have to take even arms for what they've done to each other.

Right?

This is a group of people who constantly have a conspiracy, as I've seen here, because it's in a constant kind of relationship, a ground-based system.

is the predecessor of East Germany.

We've constantly got to say, look, Germany belong, you're part of us, and that's why Britain coming into the market is a good thing, because it gives them more of a view of what belonging is.

They're out of politics, there are reasons for that, and we all understand, because they have a problem with East Germany.

But we must constantly say that the Germans are reassured

That economically, politically, monetarily, their home is in the United Europe.

Right?

That's right.

So, you know, the political cooperation in Europe was started by people like, I don't know, the Gaspari professional.

Those were the giants.

The fifties, you know.

And you're too young.

Oh, I know some of those folks.

Yes, I've known the professionals as a member of the European Parliament.

But they were the giants of European continued government, you know.

And we need

And ten governments is quite something to get done together.

But it must be done, you know, it must be done.

The Dutch have always taken a very outgoing position in this respect, haven't you?

In respect to the European...

Yes, there is where a small country like ours is not so important to world affairs.

We can do something.

I think.

On a human scale, absolutely.

There we can do something.

I was very, very true by your statement after the signature of our four new members at Michigan, which was a very positive one.

I know that you in the United States think that the common market sometimes protects you.

I think it is.

What you call your projections, I know some of your organizations, but the absence of the common market buying makers will make, I think, 400 million.

They're supposed to, certainly, because of all the economic things of Great Britain, with the British, they're an awkward-looking people.

They are.

They have been.

And I think he is an awkward-looking man.

I mean, he, of course, is always...

He's, of course, getting into the market, but he is an awkward-looking man.

I think that's what I'm looking for.

Of course.

What are you looking for?

And our country, if you look out, if you look out now, basically the French would be out right now.

Pompidou may change his venture from an economic standpoint, because he's basically motivated by economics.

That's all right, too.

At least he's not rigid.

At least his nature is rigid.

Yes, certainly.

But the enlarged coal market, that is my feeling,

will be less inward-looking, more outward-looking, than the common market of the 60-year-old.

When we started the common market in the 50s, there was one city involved against that was brought there.

They thought the common market would become a continental market.

So the big businessmen of that, they were deadly against it.

Dutch farmers were poor, but people of that land were wrong, you know.

Så de har virkelig brøftet fra Kålmarka i Norsk.

Det er deres byggfaktor.

Det er virkelig brøftet fra Kålmarka i Norsk.

Fantastic!

Especially with the OC-3, the way that you always have been used to it.

Do you know what I mean?

Yes, hello there.

How are you?

Good to see you.

Well, we...

I'm glad to hear that you feel that the eventual tendency of the New York will not be turning inward, but turning downward.

That's what we have to watch here in this country.

You see this?

Oh, it's a problem in America.

America has a very, very strong protectionist attorney in present time.

And we want to continue looking outward.

And I think we will.

But on the other hand...

It takes two to make the deal, and if a new Europe turns for Texas, they're too tough.

And if Japan continues to be, as they are, very, very tough.

The inevitable reaction here is to react to that.

And I think I'm nothing more detrimental to what we were talking about earlier, the necessity for Europe, the United States, Canada, and Japan,

to work together in terms of security, et cetera.

Because we are basically the three we're in.

The three great powers, I guess, as lined up on the other side of the two great Soviet powers.

It would be a great tragedy if our competition, which is inevitable, became destructive.

That could happen, and that's why it seems that, I think on the monetary thing, I think the group of ten thinks this is a good idea, you know.

Yes.

Because every time we can bring Japan into a deal, we should.

Every time.

I mentioned this to both Brokeheath and Brandon also, but you see, whenever you bring Japan into any kind of conversations, parliamentary conversations, economic and personal and monetary, we discuss.

You know, the group of ten business and so forth.

But because Japan is the only non-white country of the great three countries, and Japan is schizophrenic, Japan's only tie, really, only tie to what we believe in, what you believe in as a European, what I believe in as an American, is frankly very non-exotic.

We must, of course, cultivate that.

We must not be...

Beyond that, you've got to have a political cooperation and so forth.

And now that it's 25 years past the war, despite the problems that Korea has visited, most people are ready for it.

I mean, they recognize the new...

that who Japan can be and will be a very constructive member of the free world community.

But the most important thing, we've got to get out of it, because just thinking of Japan, we're tied in.

Just thinking of China.