Conversation 658-031

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Oh, uh, no, not necessary.

I've, uh, I've got another way to do it.

Uh, George Schultz is a testifier, and I'm trying to call him.

We've had it before.

If you would inform him that I brought him in, he doesn't mean anything very wise.

And I also told him, he said, you know what, I feel just like John, I know John's earnest, because John's earnestness.

As far as we go.

And he said, he said, I saw this in a question.

He said, this is a question.

He said, he said, they showed him a secret.

He said, why?

He said, I told some of our colleagues around here in collective bargaining.

And so he assembled them.

He said,

Ok, bye.

Bye.

Let's do something about how the trips were taken.

We were always waiting for me right off the train.

I would come to you.

You would then give me instructions.

I would always have to report.

You would then give instructions.

on how to prepare the next meeting.

The point I'm making to them is your detailed interest.

Your detailed, not interest, but detailed guidance of every step of the way.

Sure.

So, you know, they're just trying to be, they would like, not because they believe it, but they would like to create the impression, so on.

A certain amount of just worry that sets in after, you know, both the state of the union and the same thing.

And then you just, I mean, it's just not going to get out there.

When you are over it, you don't really have enough interest in doing the other thing, doing well.

So I think that's it.

Well, Mr. President, the amount of movies I did...

I didn't spend much time, but I just... You spent a hell of a lot of time.

I spent a hell of a lot of time.

But my experience is, when one writes or creates, that even if one doesn't actually spend time on writing, it's with one all the time.

Just as at midnight on Monday your mind was working on it.

And that's what creates the exhaust.

Must be something.

Well, do you mind if I answer the question?

Yeah, but they're fascinated by the whole part.

That's what I'm fascinated by.

But also, I think the point that hits across most is that you, this whole time, while everyone was bashing on you, you were exploring every avenue for peace.

One moment, I had an actual talk with me in the phone.

Oh, good.

And I told him that you'd be glad if you could hold a free response in on some of the background.

This would be good.

Well, the one thing I said to him, somebody else was standing there, and I said, you've got to realize...

that our history has not revealed all the things that happened, because we're trying to keep this open for future negotiations, and it's always revealed what we haven't revealed.

But it's a fascinating story.

I called Mike and told him the same thing.

Oh, you called him?

I called Mike and told him the same thing.

Is he still as positive as he used to be?

Well, he's not as positive as he used to be.

He's not as positive as he used to be.

that we would take the matter under control, in the event that it would still persist in Russia, and we would, but actually, in my case, that's the reason we can't say that, because the moment we did it, we chose, and they had to deny it.

He said, I understand completely, God bless you, Mr. President.

I think we have to get the other opponents now and charge them with surrender.

Absolutely.

I got in the hall and I called them and I said, they want the United States to surrender.

I said, they also want to turn the country over to the communists.

That's the argument.

I don't want to say that.

But Cohen can put it out.

I'm going to get a few people out there charging them with the surrender of recent drugs and so forth and so on.

But me, that isn't me.

This whole thing has come out to have been nothing better than what the Kennedy briefs have expected so far.

Oh, I agree.

You think so?

I agree.

Yeah.

Well, they did come out.

I talked to him on the phone today, that he said, as distinguished from Congress, he says the media has been so much better than he ever expected.

Yes.

And that is due to the briefings.

He said we could get up there right at this time.

Don't you agree?

Yes, and apart from the fact that it was a superlative speech.

Well, some of them carried on.

It was really, I think, the speech of the division.

I don't know what you're doing differently, but you're more relaxed now in your delivery than you were in some of your earlier speeches.

And that gives us the impression of much greater strength.

Well, at least it has an impact on the country.

I think the briefings fell on fertile ground.

But it's the speech of the captain, I hadn't given any briefings.

The briefing I gave Tuesday night was just the absolute minimum so that they wouldn't go completely crazy.

But that fell on fertile ground because of your speech.

Yeah, that's right.

It won't go.

If you don't have a good case, there's no breathing in the world.

If you could be just as cool as there was no breathing, it could have saved it.

Yeah.

I mean, all I would suggest is that you just come and see her.

And, you know, this is all back part-time, you know.

You can be delighted to come over any time you want, and you should go over yourself to the old man.

Of course I will.

He could not be for us, but he won't be as much attention as a good expert, see?

For the time we had through the year,

I mean, at the time we brought China into Russia, we should have, I mean, we should come out of that with an enormous prestige in the world.

There's no leader in this country that ever had that.

I mean, good God.

And, you know, if you, if we didn't start a little bit of a trip to Prague, if you haven't had a trip, if you haven't had a trip, if you haven't had a trip, if you haven't had a trip, if you haven't had a trip, if you haven't had a trip,

Take what comes out of it.

Oh, yes.

God, we will take that.

Take the grand deal that we make.

Jesus Christ, we can make one hell of a lot of that.

It's going to be no question.

But I think this, what we're going to have to do now is to stay very steady in the budget, and fight back the critics.

I'm going to preach the words every day that people are on here to go off their butts and fight.

And I don't think you fight back.

They've got to get something you can't have ever found.

I couldn't agree.

Mr. President, we'd be too safe to attack.

That would be one of our great reasons.

And they've got to snap back at them and take a little criticism for a while, where these people have been irresponsible and vicious and so forth, and now they're safe right there.

So that's what I'm going to do then.

I think you should.

What I mean is I'm going to have our people do it, and I'm going to say a lot of things.

I think we ought to get them in a position where they have to defend themselves constantly on the attack.

I think we ought to get them... After all, you really start to think of the other side of the coin, what you just said about the president sitting here for 30 months taking all this goddamn abuse about not seeking peace.

and say, well, there are other channels, and then have them smear, and say, well, it really isn't, you know, that's not what it's about, and people like that.

After that, the other side of that coin is the people who gave you the abuse now deserve to have a contract with God.

I think it is natural.

And I think it is essential.

I think it is essential that we put some of these on the defensive.

It is a disgrace that our own people, our own senators, attack a peace plan

Pretending that there's nothing new, pretending that you're trying to trick the American people.

In that demonstration of disunity, we must encourage the other side.

Well, not you men can have this one.

No, not you men.

No, but Kennedy, I mean, God, the brother of the man who got us this man, the brother of the man who was assassinated, who has the evidence against him.

that he won't even let us get out, when we are following a plan he himself put forward in 68.

In August 68 he made a speech in Worcester in which he said he's picking up the banner of his fallen brother, and in effect proposed re-immigration.

Now he suddenly says we should overthrow the government.

Oh, I like that.

I think it's terrific.

And I'm glad that, you know, remember I changed that speech to reach overdrive.

And I think it was good we did it, because you don't, you don't, you remember when the leaders meeting us about your ritualism, right?

Actually, listen, there's nothing I would like better than to have an R.B.

and then each retreat from that relationship.

They haven't retreated.

They haven't said a word.

But that's the artistic thing, Mr. President, and you know this.

They're practically looking at us for something to tackle us on.

First they said we'd overthrow.

That's not the truth, so I said, yes, very well.

Don't make us prove it.

It's that no one has been yakking about overthrowing us.

They said yesterday, they said today, they started yacking about ceasefire.

I had seen them get out of it and say, I'm not sure if they said it, but they always said it.

They said it was a purely academic question.

Our point 6 on ceasefire happens to be their point 7.

We are following their program.

We didn't put it in the program.

They put it in the program.

So, you know, somebody wanted to follow family's business.

That's right.

So, I think the way to treat it is with contempt rather than as a debate.

Well, I was going to say the other thing, you know.

We also got to eat in our office, so we got to eat in our office.

The first I came to terms with what I said the other night, was that I would come out here, of course, to support many things, to survive.

Overall, all the others that I've stated, I mean, the church certainly, and the great war, and the horrors that have done us to that, that will have passed.

But we're doing it.

We agree that we've made the damn world get real sense.

And leadership in a great war is really easy.

It must have been great fun to be president in the Second World War, which was morally overwhelmingly clear.

You knew, you couldn't really lose.

You know, the thing about it is that we were all so happy.

I remember when I was in the Pacific for the first time.

How long would Britain have lasted if the London Times had reported events like the Washington Post in 1940-41

The other thing, though, is that here we are, though, in terms of Russia and China.

Really, that isn't what we've done now.

But we've started a process and we're starting to change the damn world.

That's the whole point.

If we play it the way we play it, that's the only way you would be playing it.

The whole key to the whole thing is the counterparty.

Because the Russians wouldn't be talking if they weren't afraid of China.

And they're afraid of American Chinese people.

And they should, because we'll adopt them, and we'll have one.

We have to keep that one hanging.

Always must.

I want to thank you, sir.

At least consider telling Joe is that I'd go back there within a month or so because they're going to be flying wars when all these agreements are done.

Because we can do that at the end of June and we'll sort of over...

It's disgusting and disgraceful that I had to make the speech.

But that's where it comes in.

Why did those 900 men set you off, can't you see?

You know what I mean?

If we had that for unity, it wouldn't really be so realist.

We just haven't got it in yet.

The other thing is...

But...

I think we ought to go all out through this week after the election.

Oh, you know, I'm looking at the schedule.

I didn't see the RFC.

Oh, can we wait till Monday?

Fine.

We'll have to remember.

Fine.

I think we're going to need more.

I told him to put it on, but it should have been on.

Well, I have a salt meeting tomorrow, and Lear has already given orders on the only things that can be done right now.

But the main thing is the money we ought to sit down and get a good career and obviously stand.

The thing about more than fighting, you would usually have a problem with earning money.

I don't know about this, but the restrictions and all of those things are going to be far harder.

I've got to have a way down.

I will.

No, I'll do it tomorrow.

No, let me do it.

But maybe, I'll... Mitchell will be at the verification panel the 8th of March.

What did he say now?

Huh?

He's called for it.

As far as I've got papers, papers and papers, nobody was blessed while holding the president because of God's hand.

And we're not going to allow this to be resisted in ways that tend to compromise the duties.

We've got to do that, at least.

But I've got less to do.

And he's just got to do what he's got to do.

And frankly, the interest is only going to fall against the results of his efforts to try to find out about that goddamn story on the Pentagon about what we were supposed to do.

White House...

He got led to agree.

If everything was a total lie, that they had recommended the targets, they had recommended the five days, that he was going to give them the report, but I don't know what happened.

There's some, probably, and some are actually there in Europe, and you deliberately put him out to sue us, right?

There's no truth to it.

That's the point.

It's not a lead.

It's just an attack.

That's right.

Not a singular truth.

It might be a busy day, though.

Do you know what time it is?

Oh, I recall it's at 8 p.m. in the afternoon.

It's at 8 p.m. on Tuesday, and 8 p.m. on Tuesday, I guess.

The real problem that got me into this, and I don't know if I don't know if you've got anything to do with this, the real problem with God is that we've had that attractiveness to attack her along the line.

I think the people up there are intellectuals and leaders.

The trouble is, the horror of sectors, I said it to Saidi the other day, the horror of it is, Mr. President, if it weren't for

You who is really a sport in the presidency.

I mean, you've got no business being president in terms of the social structure of this country.

And Mick Timmons was there this morning.

He said, you know, it's not the brightest man, but he's on our side.

He said, you know, here it is.

I didn't even know whether that's true, but he said...

Forty years ago, the president was delivering or selling vegetables.

You were a little boy in Germany, and the two of you are pulling this country together.

And where are the others?

Which is actually, I mean, my role isn't so, the crucial one is that here you are,

The whole bloody establishment.

I told this yesterday.

Somebody was there.

Well, I said it decided.

And I also said it to somebody yesterday.

I said it to somebody yesterday.

I think about the intellectuals.

They look at Bobby Kennedy, something he did 10 years ago.

But they're persecuting the president for what they think he did 30 years ago.

at 25 years ago, that the reason they do it is because, not because, it's because he's an independent man

It's not because he's against them, but because he is emotionally dependent on them.

And they're after him.

They know this whole white social set, all these other people, are not going to take their time.

And they know it.

They're not going to march to take you.

We need a conversation.

They're all out of tune.

And you represent the authentic voice of America.

I have said to some people, the Democrats ought to get on their knees and say that they don't win the election.

I said it to Hank the other day, I said, if the Democrats win the election, their president is going to be a one-year president, and the right-wing is going to take over in 76 years.

Because they're going to look so off.

I think they conduct foreign policy there.

I'm equipped now, I don't know what they do domestically, but in foreign policy I know this bunch is carefully doing the thing, and not one has yet understood what we did in India, Pakistan, and how it saved the China option, which we need for the bloody rest.

Why would we give a damn about Bangladesh?

Modern, liberal, blind.

The nation on the left.

No, listen, the only nation on the right.

The elite.

And the nation on the left.

Now that's true.

You go to the Harvard campus.

You go to the University of California campus.

You go to the Whittier campus.

You talk to those assholes, and the greatest man in all the rest, but the thing is, there's always on the right, they never see from the left.

Now I understand, I see it both ways.

I mean, I, George Wallace, yes,

Just repels me.

Now, all those accidents.

But these sons of bitches, if it's India, well, that's the land.

If it's North Vietnam, that's the land.

Even the communists, right?

They don't see the danger in the land.

I believe that's the problem here, and they don't see it.

One proof of it is, the very people who are accusing us of being too deeply involved in Southeast Asia are accusing us of not having got enough involved in South Asia.

The one is against the communists, the other would have been against Iago.

Oh, yeah, but no, it's the mentality.

I'm not telling you.

No, but I have to, you know, when I'm talking to you about it, basically, I like the way they stand on the bed.

I said, you're the problem, and I said, you're the problem.

I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

Do you realize the standards and all that you're doing?

Right, oh yeah, I know it.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Do you realize that, that, that, do you realize that there must be an election?

There must be an election.

I said, at the present time, the United States is coming to us as a solution.

I tried to set a case in that way, but I said, what in the world is that?

I said, if you realize that there are those who want us to turn away from responsibility, there are those who want us to...

They are the people who cannot bring themselves to deal with the messiness of being out there.

They are the people who draw on all the rest.

The rest of these people are gone.

They are the people who want the United States and they want every other state as a part of it.

They are the people who make it easy, make it easy.

They are the people who want that the United States are a peaceful society.

They will compromise for the rest.

They are the people who do the same processes.

They have left all the European nations, except them, to become little islands.

The British have said, maybe, maybe we need to turn it back, I hope.

But I said, except the Germans.

Now, what about the Germans?

Well, the Germans have a problem.

They are vigorous and strong people.