{"conversationCode":"658-032","tapeNumber":658,"conversationNumber":32,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-658-032","startDateTime":"1972-01-27T20:46:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-01-27T20:49:00.000Z","startDate":"27-Jan-1972","startTime":"3:46 PM","endDate":"27-Jan-1972","endTime":"3:49 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On January 27, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:46 pm and 3:49 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 658-032 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 658-32\n\nDate: January 27, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 3:46 pm and 3:49 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Stephen B. Bull.\n\n     [Unintelligible]\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 3:49 pm.\n\nThe President left at 3:49 pm.","filename":["658a.mp3","658b.mp3","658c.mp3"],"tapeStart":"05:23:47","tapeEnd":"05:25:28","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"658-031","nextCode":"658-033","tapeTranscriptFile":"658a.mp3,658b.mp3,658c.mp3","transcript":[{"start":19429.49,"end":19434.62,"text":"But, you have this whole distribution, geographically, and also, from the top."},{"start":19434.68,"end":19440.33,"text":"Then I went off and said, it would be fun, we could all be islands, we could all think about it, and start doing things."},{"start":19440.35,"end":19443.41,"text":"But we don't have the right information for war."},{"start":19443.45,"end":19445.61,"text":"But I said, we don't live in a nation."},{"start":19445.63,"end":19453.62,"text":"I said, communism comes from socialism, and other things, and the state of Iraq and the state of China."},{"start":19453.68,"end":19453.86,"text":"But,"},{"start":19454.78,"end":19458.8,"text":"The Russian people are strong, false, and dangerous people."},{"start":19458.92,"end":19464.31,"text":"The Chinese people are strong, false, and dangerous people, despite all the opiates that's going on in the country."},{"start":19464.39,"end":19467.57,"text":"And I said, what are strong, false, and dangerous people?"},{"start":19471.32,"end":19478.24,"text":"And, of course, in your future, none of the questions is the United States Minister going to lose his balls in his daydream."},{"start":19479.49,"end":19480.01,"text":"Not is he?"},{"start":19481.26,"end":19486.75,"text":"Or are we going to stand up and get rid of the dependence on him?"},{"start":19486.85,"end":19489.89,"text":"And actually, the trouble is, this is the whole thing."},{"start":19489.91,"end":19491.53,"text":"The whole thing tolerates it."},{"start":19491.59,"end":19494.03,"text":"The people that run it are probably going to sell it to you."},{"start":19496.09,"end":19502.23,"text":"The worst kind of incest they had was intellectual incest."},{"start":19514.14,"end":19517.75,"text":"And I said, they were talking too much, they talked too much, they didn't do it."},{"start":19517.83,"end":19521.47,"text":"But the main fact, I said, you know, they had to be heard."},{"start":19521.49,"end":19521.81,"text":"No question."},{"start":19521.87,"end":19528,"text":"And I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I,"}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":19427,"end":19528,"startMethod":"tape_time","endMethod":"tape_time"},"transcriptConfidence":"low","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon held a brief meeting with Stephen B. Bull to discuss broad geopolitical themes and the perceived ideological threats posed by the Soviet Union and China. The conversation focused on Nixon's concerns regarding the national character of these nations and the potential dangers of intellectual stagnation or complacency within the American government. No formal policy decisions were reached, as the discussion primarily consisted of the President articulating his critical views on international relations and political leadership.","topics":["Geopolitics","Soviet Union","China","Cold War","Political Philosophy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T02:04:21.288Z"},"topicSlugs":["geopolitics","soviet-union","china","cold-war","political-philosophy"],"audioDurationSec":101,"audioFiles":[{"file":"658a.mp3","bytes":176525269,"durationSec":7355.15,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false},{"file":"658b.mp3","bytes":176480756,"durationSec":7353.3,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false},{"file":"658c.mp3","bytes":137629360,"durationSec":5734.5,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":true,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:54.978Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/658a.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/658b.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/658c.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/658-032","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/658/conversation-658-032","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}