Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 659-020
Date: Friday, January 28, 1972 at 4:48 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Atkins, Oliver F. ("Ollie")
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/659-020

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[4:40:32] Well, I don't have anything else to bother you about, Mr. President.
[4:40:35] Is there any information that you'd like to hear?
[4:40:36] No, I have no other comparison to Mr. Paul, sir.
[4:40:43] Yeah.
[4:40:43] When the hell ever dreamed up the idea, it should be a white tie.
[4:40:48] Ah, I decided one white tie this year.
[4:40:51] That's it.
[4:41:03] It isn't anymore.
[4:41:05] Do you wear those new collars?
[4:41:11] Do you have a new collar, or do you wear those little ones?
[4:41:16] I don't know, but I've probably worn them.
[4:41:17] But it's awful.
[4:41:18] Do you wear them with the collar button that pins on?
[4:41:20] I don't know.
[4:41:21] You wear a fixed collar.
[4:41:22] It's all part of the sock.
[4:41:25] Well, it's soft until it gets to the laundry.
[4:41:29] That's right.
[4:41:29] But anyway...
[4:41:33] All right, February 15th.
[4:41:36] Yes, Senator, you saw mine, the money.
[4:41:38] I took it for old.
[4:41:40] It's like pop.
[4:41:43] Yeah.
[4:41:43] No, commuted.
[4:41:45] Commuted.
[4:41:45] That's a very good conversation.
[4:41:47] Is that it?
[4:41:48] Honestly, it's not good or good, honestly.
[4:42:03] I wonder if it's...
[4:42:06] I don't know what you said.
[4:43:04] But so many compared to the country itself.
[4:43:08] But beautiful today.
[4:43:10] Two inches north.
[4:43:11] Yeah.
[4:43:48] I'll end it.
[4:43:53] I'll end it.
[4:43:53] We do want to see this as a matter of course.
[4:43:57] I want to see what the greatest change
[4:44:36] Mr. Breeden was bothering all over me.
[4:44:38] I spent three hours with him.
[4:44:41] Thank you.
[4:44:44] Let's see, what do you want here?
[4:44:45] The kids would like to give me some idea what they'd like to do.
[4:44:50] And they would like to make one very formal picture of the two of you standing here in front of the flags in color.
[4:44:56] And then they also, after we do that, we move to another position.
[4:44:59] Now, we're doing this in color and black and white, so we have both whites.
[4:45:03] Okay?
[4:45:04] Okay.
[4:45:06] Just stand right up together, but I'm looking right up to you.
[4:45:10] Dr. Goodison?
[4:45:11] Yes.
[4:45:11] That's right.
[4:45:16] I'm not really sure he doesn't think I'll be able to stand.
[4:45:22] I'm just looking right out.
[4:45:25] That's right.
[4:45:25] Now, when you want to move this position, we'll check your focus.
[4:45:37] You got it?
[4:45:41] All right.
[4:45:45] Mr. President, sitting on the edge of the desk, like I am, Dr. Kissinger, right out of the country.
[4:45:51] All right.
[4:45:52] Well, it's in profile.
[4:45:54] Pretty close to the desk.
[4:45:59] That's right.
[4:45:59] All of us are looking at each other.
[4:46:01] Now, keep your eyes open, Mr. President, looking at Dr. Kissinger's eyes.
[4:46:06] That's right.
[4:46:06] Any complete casual talk.
[4:46:35] Let me change just a little bit.
[4:46:37] That's right.
[4:46:37] We've heard that so often for 30 years.
[4:46:40] I think that's just the way it is.
[4:46:44] He said he could not believe it.
[4:46:56] But he meant that he couldn't do it.
[4:47:06] All right, and one other change, sir.
[4:47:10] All right?
[4:47:10] Mr. President, stand right here.
[4:47:12] Hands on the desk like this.
[4:47:14] All right?
[4:47:14] And I'm going to put you over on this side.
[4:47:18] All right, I'd like you to stand and talk right in this way, sir.
[4:47:25] Good night.
[4:47:27] Start to lean on your fingers, Mr. President.
[4:47:32] Yes, sir.
[4:47:34] It doesn't hurt to lean forward a little bit either.
[4:47:46] All right.
[4:47:46] All right.
[4:47:54] I'm going to make a change.
[4:47:55] I'm Dr. Kissinger.
[4:47:56] Right across the table.
[4:48:18] Yes, sir.
[4:48:20] Thank you.
[4:48:23] I still avoided getting into the Middle East.
[4:48:25] I figured the longer I can keep them dangling.
[4:48:28] But next Friday comes the moment of truth.
[4:48:31] I'd better start talking to him.
[4:48:35] So he called his attitude was very insufferable.
[4:48:40] Oh, he said, we want it.
[4:48:41] We want big agreements made.
[4:48:43] We don't want it to be a social visit.
[4:48:46] We...
[4:48:48] We'll make them.
[4:48:49] And he said, you and I, I mean, he and I, we're going to have it all worked out by early May.
[4:48:55] The communique will be all set.
[4:48:57] When you leave, your president doesn't have to worry.
[4:48:59] This will all be done.
[4:49:01] And, well, he said he practically guaranteed us all the treatment.
[4:49:11] The trade, it's done.
[4:49:12] Middle East, we hope for.
[4:49:15] And I told him, he asked a number of questions on Vietnam.
[4:49:20] One that was rather interesting.
[4:49:22] She said, how about withdrawal for prisoners and not a ceasefire, but a sort of a standstill.
[4:49:30] And just for the record, I said, just so that we couldn't say, so that we can show this at some time, I said, look, if they make any serious proposition like that, it will get the most careful consideration here.
[4:49:45] We may want to say at some point we told the Russians.
[4:49:50] Yeah, we might have to give that some kind of stance.
[4:49:57] And then he said, how do we set on a Geneva conference?
[4:50:00] I said, we afford it.
[4:50:01] He said, well, that's what he knew, but he just wanted to confirm it.
[4:50:08] I'm amazed that the North Vietnamese have been much tamer than I thought they'd be.
[4:50:14] They haven't turned it down.
[4:50:18] How come?
[4:50:19] I am not so sure.
[4:50:22] The tragedy, the crime is that our people are turning it down.
[4:50:29] By who?
[4:50:30] Well, Joe Kraft is beginning to niggle away at it.
[4:50:34] Well, of course.
[4:50:35] And Rester.
[4:50:36] Rester.
[4:50:36] Yeah.
[4:50:38] That's a hell of a note.
[4:50:39] Now, these guys have no responsibility, so they piss on it.
[4:50:45] What are they pissing on?
[4:50:46] The only thing that we haven't offered yet, and never will, is to turn over... That's what they want.
[4:50:57] But I think actually... On the other hand, Henry, when we say, so Joe cracked, I think we've got a lot of public support.
[4:51:07] Mr. President, I think we have, in a few minutes, I'm going to see the P.O.W.
[4:51:12] I think, Mr. President, we have gained more from that speech than I thought was possible.
[4:51:22] What they have done on the time cover, they've called me
[4:51:26] They have put my name on it.
[4:51:29] They have put my picture on it.
[4:51:31] But they have a heading that says, Nixon's Secret Emissary.
[4:51:35] So it's...
[4:51:38] I mean, that's the... Well, it concerns me, Mr. President, because... Well, that doesn't bother me.
[4:51:47] What bothers me is when something good happens, you ought to get the credit because, A, you deserve it,
[4:51:52] and B, none of us is running.
[4:51:54] That's right.
[4:51:56] But when they say Nixon's secret emissary, that makes me the two.
[4:52:01] Right.
[4:52:02] But getting back to this...
[4:52:03] If we let the impression that I did it... Sure, so crap, this is on Washington Post.
[4:52:12] And yet you have some very interesting editorial support.
[4:52:16] Oh, I would say... Or that we usually have.
[4:52:19] Oh, John Scali says it's still overwhelming.
[4:52:23] Yeah.
[4:52:24] So I just wouldn't worry about it.
[4:52:26] I don't worry.
[4:52:26] It does bother me.
[4:52:27] It's wrong.
[4:52:28] It's wrong.
[4:52:29] Every goddamn American ought to stand up and be for this.
[4:52:32] And ought to be proud and pleased that his president worked so hard.
[4:52:36] That son of a bitch is proud.
[4:52:38] It's probably meant because you didn't tell him.
[4:52:42] Well, he's not yet really attacked it, but he's... And the same with the New York Times.
[4:52:47] That son of a bitch, Lyman, gives us one good editorial that he calls up today with ten hot ideas of how we can improve the author.
[4:52:56] And that's our trouble.
[4:52:57] It's a moral collapse of our leadership group.
[4:53:00] Instead of somebody saying...
[4:53:01] The collapse is unbelievable.
[4:53:02] I can tell you, I go in there to the damn room and I meet with the construction industry council...
[4:53:08] The only ones wearing the American flag in that room beside me were the labor leaders.
[4:53:17] I'm telling you, those guys are good.
[4:53:18] They're all for us.
[4:53:19] I don't give a damn.
[4:53:21] It's our national defense.
[4:53:22] They believe in this country.
[4:53:23] We love the country.
[4:53:24] I don't wear it for pictures because it doesn't come out great.
[4:53:27] I don't know what the hell it is.
[4:53:32] I like to stick it with it.
[4:53:33] I like to stick it with an election.
[4:53:34] You see the flag in the audience on the picture.
[4:53:40] Yeah, that's right.
[4:53:41] But anyway, we had some fun, you know, some fun.
[4:53:47] I tell you, Henry, I'm on that offer.
[4:53:50] I think we made a, it came off bad at the end, right?
[4:53:53] Oh, I didn't think it would get this reaction.
[4:53:56] We got a reaction, the country was good.
[4:54:00] One thing I find so interesting is not twice after months of screaming about secrecy in government,
[4:54:07] If you bring up something secretly, they love it.