← 661-002661-004 →

Conversation 661-003

TapeTape 661StartMonday, January 31, 1972 at 3:51 PMEndMonday, January 31, 1972 at 4:00 PMTape start time02:20:02Tape end time02:29:48ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Butterfield, Alexander P.;  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  White House operator;  McClory, RobertRecording deviceOval Office
AudioNARA Description

On January 31, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, Ronald L. Ziegler, White House operator, and Robert McClory met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:51 pm and 4:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 661-003 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 661-3

Date: January 31, 1972
Time: Unknown between 3:51 pm and 4:00 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Alexander P. Butterfield.

     Signing of documents

     White House meeting with governors
          -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew role
                 -Cocktails in Blue Room
                 -Reception
           -Agenda
                 -William G. Milliken role
                 -Number of guests
                 -Ronald W. Reagan role
                 -Nelson A. Rockefeller role
                 -Linwood Holton role
           -Seating
                 -Rex W. Scouten
                 -Table configuration
           -Cabinet attendance
           -Other guests
                 -Harry S. Dent
                 -Robert J. Dole
                 -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                 -John D. Ehrlichman
           -Press attendance

     Deaths of policemen [Gregory Foster and Rocco Laurie]
          -Details
          -Funeral arrangements
                -Representative of the President
                     -Possibilities
                          -General Robert E. Cushman, Jr.
                          -John V. (“Jack”) Brennan
                          -Peter M. Flanigan
                          -Charles W. Colson
                          -Cushman
                -Wreaths
          -Location of shootings
                -New York
                     -Harlem
                     -Bedford-Stuyvesant
          -Age of policemen
          -Funeral
                -Timing
          -Cushman attendance at funeral
          -Brennan

Ronald L. Ziegler entered and Butterfield left at 3:55 pm.

     Press relations
           -Representation on PRC trip
                 -Patrick J. Buchanan

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 3:55 pm and
3:57 pm and requested a telephone call to Robert McClory.]

[Conversation No. 661-3A]

[See Conversation No. 20-4]
[End of telephone conversation]

     Press representation on People’s Republic of China [PRC] trip
           -Ziegler’s talks with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and Henry A. Kissinger
                -William F. Buckley, Jr.
           -Holmes Alexander
           -Buckley
                -Buchanan’s view
                       -Benefits
                             -Feeling toward administration
                             -Influence
                                   -Kissinger
                -Haldeman view
                -Kissinger view
                       -Possible Chinese reaction

[The President talked with McClory between 3:57 pm and 3:58 pm.]

[Conversation No. 661-3B]

[See Conversation No. 20-5]

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 08/05/2022.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[661-003-w002]
[Duration: 42s]

     [See Conversation No. 020-005-w001]

******************************************************************************

[End of telephone conversation]

     Press representation on PRC trip
           -Buchanan’s reaction
                -Joseph C. Kraft
                -Richard (“Dick”) Wilson
                -Alexander
           -Buckley
                -US Information Agency [USIA] representative
                -Reporter
                -Buchanan view

     Telephone call to Abraham A. Ribicoff
          -Release for news
               -Ehrlichman
                 -Earlier question to Ziegler
                 -Content of call
                       -Welfare reform
                            -Elliot L. Richardson
                            -Russell B. Long, Wallace F. Bennett
                            -Strategy
                            -The President’s support for legislation
                            -News summary
                            -Reason for call
                                  -Advisory
                            -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming talk with Richardson
                            -Strategy with Ribicoff, Long, Bennett
                            -Ziegler’s possible telephone call to Ehrlichman

Ziegler left at 4:00 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Do you want the Vice President to play a role, such as receiving with you cocktails in the Blue Room, and then you and the Vice President receiving in the Blue Room?
I'd like to say something, I suppose, if the President's in it.
Do you want Governor Mulligan to say something?
Chairman of the Governor's Association, respond?
41 people total.
42.
Well, I think we should have sort of more than that.
We'll have Governor Milliken be the final one to respond, but we don't have regular representatives.
So... Whoops.
Okay.
We'll have to be each other when we tell them we love them.
Two minutes each.
All right.
Rex says he can't possibly seat all those people at that one single rectangular table.
He'd like to go a small E-shaped table, but not the other table.
What did he want?
Sure.
Good.
How many are, aren't they all the cabinet people, too?
Yes, all of the cabinet.
All right.
All right.
Plus...
No, we're not having the press at all on this one, are we?
The remarks just to the archives.
Yes, sir.
This is a political thing.
I never want to put any of that out.
We thought we'd send a presidential reference out to this general.
These two policemen who were gunned down in the neighborhood, 12 ex-marines.
When the hell were they gunned down?
Two days ago.
For no reason at all.
They were not only shot once, but shot several times as they were on the sidewalk.
But they were both ex-marines.
We thought we'd send a cushion up there.
Peter Flanagan or someone like that.
I think Brandon maybe would be the best.
You mean Cushman?
Cushman suggests to come.
Ask him to go.
That's very good.
As the president's representative, you're damn right.
Cushman should go.
He's proud of the Marines.
He's a full general.
That would be very impressive.
And bring along a read for both.
Yes, sir.
Where was it?
Was it in Harlem?
I suppose it was in Bedford-Stuyvesant.
I suppose it was in Blackton.
Lower East Side.
Lower East Side.
Well, probably Bedford-Stuyvesant.
One after 22, one after 23.
They were just walking along.
It was at night.
Yeah, it was at night.
What?
Yeah.
Yeah, there's two of them.
When is General?
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow.
Wednesday morning, Wednesday afternoon.
That's General Cushing.
He can go.
If he can't go, everyone can go.
Right.
Okay.
All right, you got another turn down?
Well, that's a case.
It's a case on the difficult decision.
I guess you agonize about it up to the last minute.
Yeah.
It's the last minute.
I've talked to the team.
Yes, sir.
And to McLaurin, please.
a quarry congressman, a quarry of Illinois.
And a Holtzman.
So they want to go back to Holtzman.
Buckley.
Buckley.
Pat's view is that he's going to cut us anyway.
He said, but he can be influenced.
He said he's been influenced over the last two years.
And he said he feels that...
Of course, Henry knows in the present no more about what's coming out of the meeting than we do.
But he said he feels that Buckley could have a key influence for us.
And he said, if he's going to go against us and go against us anyway, that's .
Haldeman has about the same gut reaction I do.
It might be worth a chance.
Kissinger says, fine.
He said, I don't have any problem with Buckley from that standpoint.
He said, the only thing I have is how
John, he might react, but he said, judgment's call.
And he said, from a judgment standpoint, I'm not going to be bothered by it.
Hello.
Yeah.
Hello.
Bob, I just noticed you're having a birthday today, so, well, I figured I'd catch you there, and I wanted to wish you the very best.
And don't you believe me, you've got a lot of years left, so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Where do you have your party?
Your staff in your office?
Yeah.
Oh, boy.
Coffee, huh?
Yeah.
That's right.
OK, bud.
Well, fine, bud.
that Wilson's an odd one.
No, he really doesn't.
He doesn't, to be quite candid, doesn't think Holmes is Alexander's either, so that's not the solution.
He's responsible.
Well, that's, you know,
Why don't we name that?
I would say we want to go with Jim because you were on the President's Advisory Commission under the USIA and, of course, as a reporter.
That's right.
But then he goes into capacity.
Buchanan seems to think that Buckley is a type that can be flattered and so forth.
He's tough.
Well, Buchanan would be a long way to work on.
He could work on him.
It's like all through their darn heart, and he was wondering, what's wrong with you?
Yes, sir.
Have you called, so I don't have to bother you, have you called, have you ever called yet?
You have called?
Yeah.
Irvington wants me to put that out and say that you did call him.
Well, you have to.
I don't have to put it out?
Yeah, well, if I was in, yeah.
You could say, well, gentlemen, the President had talked to Senator Rick Cobb today and asked his advice about welfare reform.
He stressed his support of welfare reform.
And there's a lot of staff, the fellow Secretary of the Senate, going to be working there, going to be talking to him, to Senator Long and Senator Bennett over the next, uh,
a few weeks while the hearings are processed, to see if we can work on a strategy which will get the bill reported out and majority support for passage.
Now they say, well, we don't accept the senator's plan.
The president simply expressed his support of the administration.
I noted that Senator had taken a different position for a test plan.
And he knew that he agreed to support it.
He called an action from the Senators to the Senators' advice as to what we should do.
Now the next time, Mr. John, John Irvin, is going to talk to Mr. Richardson.
And we hope this will make a good bottom.
But throw in the fact that the President also
He's not coming down to see you.
Oh, sir.
You can call.
← 661-002661-004 →