{"conversationCode":"664-002","tapeNumber":664,"conversationNumber":2,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-664-002","startDateTime":"1972-02-02T14:10:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-02-02T14:13:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Feb-1972","startTime":"9:10 AM","endDate":"2-Feb-1972","endTime":"9:13 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Gubser, Charles S.;","description":"On February 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles S. Gubser met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:10 am to 9:13 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 664-002 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 664-2\n\nDate: February 2, 1972\nTime: 9:10 am - 9:13 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President talked with Charles S. Gubser.\n\n[See Conversation No. 20-17]","filename":["664a.mp3","664b.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:16:51","tapeEnd":"00:18:04","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Gubser, Charles S."],"prevCode":"664-001","nextCode":"664-003","tapeTranscriptFile":"664a.mp3,664b.mp3","transcript":[{"start":1012.82,"end":1017.44,"text":"The Chinese will lay it on with great decorum and enormous dignity."},{"start":1018.99,"end":1020.93,"text":"They'll see you working like crazy."},{"start":1023.89,"end":1027.55,"text":"And I don't see how they can fail to be impressed."},{"start":1028.85,"end":1031.19,"text":"They'll get invited to every state banquet."},{"start":1036.69,"end":1041.26,"text":"But I've read over the communique, Mr. President."},{"start":1044.88,"end":1046.04,"text":"On the Taiwan part?"},{"start":1046.72,"end":1050.97,"text":"On the Taiwan part, Mr. President, we won't be able to get anything that Joe Buckley will like."},{"start":1051.09,"end":1053.29,"text":"That's impossible."},{"start":1054.23,"end":1055.59,"text":"That beating can't be done."},{"start":1057.09,"end":1060.75,"text":"I think they'll make a serious effort to go as far as they can with evidence, et cetera."},{"start":1060.77,"end":1069.08,"text":"The best you can agree to there is that you say we don't agree."},{"start":1069.12,"end":1073.9,"text":"Well, that they're doing anyway, but even the statement of disagreement has to get them a little bit before they'll say..."},{"start":1075.55,"end":1078.23,"text":"I mean, on everything else, they're letting us disagree totally."},{"start":1078.25,"end":1082.75,"text":"And they're letting us say they'll maintain the defense treaty with Japan."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":1011.5,"end":1083.375,"startMethod":"silence","endMethod":"silence"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Congressman Charles S. Gubser discuss the political optics and strategic challenges surrounding the upcoming diplomatic mission to China. Gubser expresses concern regarding the difficulty of reaching a consensus on the Taiwan issue that would satisfy domestic critics. Nixon maintains that while total agreement on Taiwan is impossible, the administration has successfully secured the Chinese government’s consent to disagree on other sensitive matters, such as the Japan defense treaty.","topics":["China-United States relations","Taiwan","Diplomacy","Foreign policy","Japan-United States Security Treaty"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T02:12:17.913Z"},"topicSlugs":["china-united-states-relations","taiwan","diplomacy","foreign-policy","japan-united-states-security-treaty"],"audioDurationSec":73,"audioFiles":[{"file":"664a.mp3","bytes":177528371,"durationSec":7396.96,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false},{"file":"664b.mp3","bytes":43392312,"durationSec":1807.95,"bitrate":192006,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":true,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:54.664Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/664a.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/664b.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/664-002","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/664/conversation-664-002","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}