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Conversation 665-012

TapeTape 665StartThursday, February 3, 1972 at 4:42 PMEndThursday, February 3, 1972 at 5:08 PMTape start time06:20:51Tape end time06:25:56ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Moorer, Thomas H. (Adm.);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon, Admiral Thomas Moorer, and Henry Kissinger met to discuss the necessity of maintaining direct communication channels between the President and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, notwithstanding bureaucratic concerns from the Department of Defense. Nixon emphasized his constitutional duty as Commander-in-Chief and expressed frustration with constraints following the Charles Radford security leak incident involving columnist Jack Anderson. The President instructed Kissinger and General Alexander Haig to manage potential friction with the Secretary of Defense to ensure the military leadership could continue to report directly to him.

Joint Chiefs of StaffCommander-in-Chief authorityWhite House-Pentagon relationsCharles Radford incidentExecutive communicationNational security leaks
AudioNARA Description

On February 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:42 pm and 5:08 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 665-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 665-12

Date: February 3, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:42 pm and 5:08 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Adm. Thomas H. Moorer and Henry A. Kissinger.

     President’s previous meeting with Yevgeny Yevtushenko
           -President’s 1959 speech in Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
           -President’s forthcoming trip to People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                 -Effect on USSR
           -Interpreter
                 -Notes for Kissinger

     Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
           -Contact with President
                -Importance
                      -Yeoman Charles E. Radford incident
                             -Jack N. Anderson
                      -Secretary of Defense
                             -Responsibility
                -Kissinger, Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                      -President’s instructions

Recording was cut off at an unknown time before 5:08 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

He's very much was fantastic with it.
And he said an interesting thing.
He was, of course, quite young.
He was a Russian in 1959.
And he was quite honest.
He said, because I am a very, frankly, strong state of the exposition, you know, pro-war, Marxist, and so forth and so on.
The interesting thing was that he said, I'm not part of it, but I'd like to be part of it.
Because he liked it.
You know, it's always up.
It's always up.
And also, as you said, you've liberated Russia, but what you did to Pekin, you're preventing the U.N.A.
from controlling Americans now to express themselves.
Yes.
I hope this is done.
Well, that guy was a Russian.
that I think are very important.
First, we've got to maintain this, and I know it's difficult and very touchy and direct, but we've got to maintain the responsibility of the chiefs to have direct contact with the president.
But that of course raises some problems here and there.
But it doesn't as far as I'm concerned.
Because what is important to me is that the chiefs have got to have this contact.
Otherwise, you cannot in a real sense let the president just command your chief.
and in a real sense, the Secretary of Census's command.
Yes, Secretary of Census.
They're all quite crazy about it.
Well, that was the law.
You see, they say, now the President's command, and she, well, the President's command, well, God, man, think about military events.
So, he cannot meet his responsibilities as Commander-in-Chief unless he has direct contact with the military.
And I think the Secretary of Defense should remember we've got that set up for that purpose.
There's got to be some contact.
Now, the other thing is that
Secretaries of Defense will bear with you.
They'll bear with you.
And we understand that.
But the owner, the Secretary of Defense, is not elected by anybody.
He has no responsibility as Commander-in-Chief.
The President's got responsibility.
Now, for example, just so we understand, a total of a janitor is apparently a skeleton, but you can work it out.
And you're over here for a very long time.
other than anything.
You just time it.
Now you can work it out.
And you don't need to report anything to that attorney.
I don't want you to do any dishonesty.
But I've got to have some opportunities to discuss things, to get it, to mark off what some of this stuff or all of this other is that you better quote with expression.
Now this is what you have to do.
I don't know why I'm catching hell.
I'm already going to hell for it.
You can depend on me.
You can depend on me.
I think that's the way it is.
I don't want you to say a little things that I'm talking about.
This is me.
I'm talking to you.
Part of it is that we've got to ask you this.
You've got to know this.
If there's any problem with the secretary, it's Henry's job.
The work goes out if he can't.
And if he can't, I will.
But God damn it, there's nothing I can do.
Now, Henry, if I got this thing clear, now do you have any trouble?
Oh, absolutely.
I would ask that you agree with the president.
But since you're specifically so confident that on the occasion that Tom can't come in here...
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