Conversation 666-002

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He argues that back in October they would have, so we've got a record that shows in October they did.

That's the place to have it.

On the other hand, even in October, you're going to be able to say that it was provided then.

It's your blood for seven years.

Okay, I get it.

So, but he's saying now, but the lead thing is that now, as of today, which is all that matters, not what would have been done in October, what will be done now, as of today, they will not take a withdrawal for prison.

So, Muskie's claim has been shot down by their negotiators.

See if you can find it right away and ask me to put down the president's office, please.

Thank you.

I know, it goes on forever.

He's just trying to cover all the faces.

His point originally was that what you should do is just listen and say, thank you, it's good to hear from you.

Trist!

Good God, this is personal news for me to say to the Secretary of Defense.

I'm going to ask him for his impressions.

I had to talk as long as I could.

The only thing they had was these angry shots.

In this valley, they should have gone to planning rather than entering.

Some of you possibly can get economic matters out of it, except we wanted to get this out of economic.

This was, theoretically, if it is AI and metal, you have to put it in an oil bank.

And several other things, and I'm just not sure it's always going to be related to economy.

See what I mean?

There's nothing in there except it has to do with those things.

You're going to have a hell of a time getting it out of Henry Shuffler.

Everything that touches economics, you have to plan it rather than Kissinger.

And then planning his job would be to check any political that Kissinger sees.

Because planning it, you know damn well is going to check what Connolly and Henry may or may not.

Correct.

This is all right this time.

Well, listen, we turned down, you know, on economic grounds, and then got bounced back on diplomatic grounds.

The memorandum was internal politics for a long time.

The memorandum was basically about the IMF.

You know, that's your thing.

It's inevitable as we've been.

I just, sorry.

There's a mix there, but let me say it because he's better organized.

And we'll get it more precisely in Tucker.

The more we can get it to Flanagan, rather than...

But also before Flanagan ever sends me a memorandum showing two or three abuses.

I say, not like that, you know.

How did you use Flanagan?

Here is his... Pete has the same... Pete Flanagan has the same problem, because the things they deal with are so complex.

Kind of like that handy girl business that you've got.

Did you see that film?

That's sort of an old-time classic.

Big lot of stuff on what to do about pantyhose.

I get all the things I need, so I have time to read them.

Whatever it was, I didn't take the line.

I stayed crazy.

A lot of time to lie.

You know, I thought it was a question.

Let somebody show you pantyhose.

The pantyhose industry wants to do it.

I think this is...

Yes, sir.

The fellow that Don's son is working with.

So I'm going to get him out of there.

The SEC is about to move in on Vesco with multiple accounts.

Well, I guess you think you have to do something about what you're going to do with him then.

Put him on a...

I'm going to find him a job.

It occurred to me they would send him to Mary.

But that's another thing I've got to talk to Mary about.

He's in Bermuda.

Why get him out there?

When are you going to lower the boom on Pesco?

Apparently this week or next week.

Mitchell's been working with him.

And Casey came over and laid it out for him.

And he says, just no option.

It's just bad.

And Mitchell agrees, they've got to go.

And so he said, I've got about a week to get the kid out of there.

Well, Marriott's got a hotel in Acapulco.

It seems to me that we can ask you to take... Well, no, the thing to do, though, is to... Marriott can't do this on its own.

Is there anything we can do to give him some money or anything to...

I have no idea how Marriott can do it.

It's a tax-deductible political contribution for Marriott.

It's got plenty... Their corporation's doing well.

Their stock's soaring upward.

Yeah.

I don't want to talk to Murray and myself about, you know, putting these boys out to pasture.

You just gotta get him out of circulation.

Remember when he went over there, I said, what the hell do they want him for?

We've lucked out, so far.

He lucked out because he hadn't done it.

He had already been on the surface, and I'm aware.

But we've got to move on that now, and I'll travel.

We're not over that earth.

I don't know how to say it.

Do you hear about the bit on the briefing over at the State Department?

No, what's this on?

Well, we briefed the wives and the staff.

They had a sub-cabinet and so on.

Henry was on the program.

Did you ever say there wasn't any foreign policy?

Bill called and objected to Henry being on the program to brief on foreign policy at the State Department.

So we had to take him off.

So you just didn't have any foreign policy?

Completely.

Why didn't you help him?

Why didn't you get a rocket degree before?

Well, we didn't call until the night before.

And then we said, fine, we're putting up rockets now.

Tomorrow morning.

What's tomorrow morning?

That, Captain.

Leaders.

Oh, yeah, sure.

Is that right?

Yeah, that.

Yes, sir.

Take the line.

It's fine.

Henry doesn't, you know what I mean?

Henry's putting his weight around, too.

Yep.

Speaking of boards, it reminds me that Roger Hull died yesterday.

I noticed that.

Yeah, he should get a presidential reason.

On that, referring to personal notes, there is, oh, I don't think I can remember.

She wrote us a letter, I'll pull it out, but she can't go to church, so he couldn't.

Yeah, that I, that I, I mean, although we believe he was seriously injured, we don't know.

I've had to go to California in March, and I thought this man, I thought while I was out there I would make contacts with Firestone and some of the other swingers in his foundation, get that a lot.

We're going to release the press list today for China.

No, no, no.

I want to do that very quickly.

Well, I'd like to hold everything until Thursday that you can.

We talked about holding everything until Thursday, but I don't... You have Thursday to make it out, right?

But if you don't mind, please don't say that we're going to spend two days in the water.

Don't say that we're going to go to Guam.

Don't say that we'll leave at a certain time.

But you can leave all that out.

The only thing we have to do as we can is release the press list together.

Let's say that as far as departing time, it will be either Wednesday or Thursday.

Yes, sir.

I won't move time.

Because I'd like to have something to say when I see you.

Wait, you can't say Wednesday or Thursday, because you told them last week to say it won't be before the 7th.

I'm trying to do that.

The departing time is not that 7th.

But the only thing we're going to do is put up a list of crimes, and we're not going to be able to have that number.

Sure, sure.

Well, that's what I thought you wanted me to read, Mr. Perkins.

Now, on the thing, then I will, but I want to be able to handle everything, and I will indicate that I will brief the press.

Okay.

I'll tell them.

Isn't that what you thought?

Yes, sir.

That's what we agreed to do, and I'm going to release the committee.

You already told Ron to give it to Canada.

They need the ten most likely questions in case I need to do this thing.

That's all I want in a briefing on this time.

So you figure out what they are, even if it's the only way.

But just the ones...

I'm trying to be on other subjects, I'm trying to do it, but I'm not doing any great details.

Okay.

And then about subjects... Go ahead, go ahead.

Just to finish this...

And I think we'll go back in time for our next interview.

It's right outside of your linking to sit.

And I think we'll build right this time, Torrance.

It's right outside of here when I came to send it.

Translation.

Yeah, here's Tom at the, I'll be at the ballroom.

This is going to take 15 minutes.

It's that call, you know.

Yeah, no, no.

You want to hear it?

Yeah.

Yeah, hello, I'm on.

Yes, good morning.

Hello, I'm on.

The only thing I can tell him is he'll give his most sympathetic voice.

Oh, I read it.

Most sympathetic voice.

Presidente Danuzi?

That's inevitable.

This is our concern.

Muy bien, señor.

Ahora voy a poner al presidente.

Mr. President, he's on.

Hello?

Presidente Danuzi?

Le habla el presidente.

Yes, hello, Mr. Presidente.

Very well, Mr. President, it's a pleasure to be able to talk with you.

Yes, it's a pleasure to hear from you, Mr. President.

Y es un placer para mí también, señor presidente, comunicarme con usted.

And before we go into any other matters, Mr. President, I would like to express my deep personal appreciation for the interest you have expressed in my illness and my practice.

Well, I hope, Mr. President, you are totally recovered because we know you have great responsibilities in your position as head of state in Argentina.

Well, I hope, Mr. President, that you have fully recovered because you have a great responsibility as the head of the Argentine government.

I am grateful for your understanding, Mr. President.

Mr. President, Mr. President, your good wishes and you can be sure that we will do everything we can to make the world a more peaceful place as a result of this visit.

Bueno, muchas gracias, señor presidente, por sus buenos orgullos y por estar seguro que nosotros haremos todo lo posible para que el mundo sea el lugar donde haya mayor paz en el futuro.

Also in connection with the trip, Mr. President, we believe that it contributes a great deal to the breaking down of ideological borders and barriers, and this is an enterprise which the Argentine government has always spoken out of favor in the past.

Well, I greatly appreciate, Mr. President, your support of our initiatives, and you can be sure that all of our initiatives in the world will not be taken at the expense of our friends, our great friends like Argentina.

Muchas gracias por su apoyo, señor Presidente, y puedo asegurarles que cualquier iniciativa que tomemos en este viaje o en cualquier otro no serán tomadas a expensas de nuestros grandes amigos como la Argentina.

He must be 70 years old.

I'm not going to see you on Monday night.

Mr. President, as I said to you in the barricade on October 23 of last year, in which we were speaking of a policy of regional responsibility and of voluntary cooperation, a policy that the Argentine government shares completely, the Argentine Republic, in line with that policy, has decided to normalize its relations with the people of the Republic of China.

We are moving in the direction of a more normal relation with the People's Republic.

We do not expect to have this trip of course set up formal recognition, but this trip will contribute to a dialogue between the two countries.

Bueno, señor Presidente, nosotros estamos naturalmente acercándonos a unas relaciones más formales con la justicia popular china.

No esperamos que nuestra unidad de culturo sea el momento de iniciar los reconocimientos formales de esta república, pero sí tendría que ser tan alto, en un marco en el cual los dos países puedan dialogar entre sí mismos.

Sure.

To go on for another subject, Mr. President, I would like to express my deep satisfaction with the positive progress that has been made by the financial mission headed by Dr. Pignone that we have sent to the United States, and to express our appreciation for the very excellent attitude displayed by various officials of the United States government.

Well, I'm keeping in very close touch with Secretary Connolly, who is in charge of this on our part, and he has told me of the meeting Mr.

Petty, Assistant Secretary, has had with you, with your government, and we will try to be as hopeful as we can on these matters that are of such enormous importance to the future economic progress of Argentina.

Mr. President, you want to talk to me a little bit?

Aplausos

Det er snabbt.

Mr. President, I want to award your great understanding as to the scope and projections of our Argentine mission.

I would like to add that the success of this mission is of paramount importance, not only because it will contribute greatly to the welfare of Argentina, but it will also broaden the possibilities for cooperation within the Latin American sphere, and will thus contribute to the effective exercise of representative democracy and human rights by the standards under which the Inter-American System operates.

We consider Argentina to be one of our strongest and best friends in the world.

We know that Argentina has had some economic difficulties, but we want you, Mr. President, to know that to the extent that we can, within our laws, we want to be of assistance along with Argentina.

other members of the international community to Argentina and its attempt to move forward economically.

Sí, señor Presidente, nosotros consideramos que Argentina es uno de nuestros amigos más afirmes y mejores que tenemos en todo el mundo, y sabemos al mismo tiempo de los problemas económicos que confronta esta nación, y quiero que usted sepa que, hasta el cabo de que nosotros podamos hacerlo dentro del marco de nuestras leyes, trataremos de ayudar en todo lo posible, al igual que otros miembros de la comunidad internacional, para contribuir así al progreso económico de la República Dominicana.

I understand that, Mr. President.

I recognize this very, very positive attitude on your part.

And finally, I would like to put in a word here for a plea for liberalization of reciprocal trade between our two countries and also on a worldwide level.

Well, our concerns are not just economic ones, but we are also interested in our political relations, and also the friendship that we traditionally have.

And that is a solid basis for the progress of the economic era, where self-interest is what is primarily what motivates countries.

Sí, nuestras preocupaciones no son solamente del orden económico, también nos interesan nuestras relaciones políticas y también la amistad tradicional que ha existido entre nuestras naciones.

Porque con estas buenas relaciones políticas es posible entonces lograr un buen progreso económico porque naturalmente una nación hace lo que más le conviene.

What he said was that an individual knowing that we have already organized...

Mr. President, I share those viewpoints completely.

I would like to take a word to you now, but reiterating before I do so, my cordial and respectful greetings to you on behalf of myself, and on behalf of the organization of the United States of America, reiterating our decision to keep up our struggle to maintain the political philosophy which is traditionally characterized by Argentina, and which has enabled us to maintain friendly relations with a number of countries of the world, notably the United States.

Mr. President, I am delighted to have this opportunity to talk with you on the phone, and I look forward to the time when the two of us can meet personally, because the great country of the South, the great people of Argentina, and the people of the United States of America, the North,

had a long record of friendship and cooperation, and I hope that while you are the president of your country and I am the president of our country, that we can work together for progress within our countries, for progress for the whole American community, the American family, and for peace and friendship in the whole world.

Si, señor presidente, ha sido un gran placer para mi poder conversar con usted por teléfono, y espero que tengamos la oportunidad de poder conocernos personalmente, porque usted viene de la gran nación del sur, representando al gran pueblo argentino, y es solamente lógico que el gran pueblo argentino pueda comunicarse con los representantes del pueblo de los Estados Unidos de América.

Debido a nuestra gran tradición historial de amistad y de cooperación y de las mujeres de nuestros dos países.

Espero que esto se quede en usted y yo a vos, a los 100 presidentes, para seguir colaborando en el futuro para lograr mayor progreso dentro de nuestras respectivas naciones y también dentro de la comunidad de naciones del interior occidental y también en pro de la causa de la paz y de la amistad indiana.

Oh, Mr. President, I'm saying very well to you, I'm very grateful to you, and this way we will be able to support our respective peoples, and the peoples of the American community as a nation, and in particular also the peoples of the world.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, that was a good job.

A little harder to get through, though.

Yeah, I didn't come in, I just sat.

And, uh, the, uh, that, uh, that film I'll put out, you know, after I do the film, I think.

Sorry, I thought I was still standing here.

We're back, so...

I don't know, 35 minutes.

All you're expecting to do, Mr. President, is to open it.

All you need to do is 5-10 minutes at the most.

And that's realistic, 5-10 minutes.

They've had a tour, after you've done that, for the Senate, over to Grove and Columbia, and still take over for about another 10 minutes.

We will not have the Attorney General.

You haven't called him, have you?

He's been canceled out of his schedule.

That's all right.

He wasn't canceled.

Okay.

I'm sitting with you.

God damn, I'm telling you.

He likes the Colonel, you know.

He's fixing about $500,000 in aid to Pakistan.

Now?

He's in the morning.

Oh, I hate that.

I hate that.

I'm sure we'll be talking for a very, very long time.

You wanted to cover that whole thing.

Right, I didn't want to go over there.

I just talked a lot that we had all over it all.

And several factors involved.

but I think we should cover the contingency.

Bob has purchased that point that, you know, obviously he doesn't really mind how we handle it, and I just went over it with him, and he suggested I write it up.

My first approach is, and I can give my last, I'm just going to say, look, as Bob indicated, he was speaking, he was not speaking for the president, he was speaking for himself, and he made up his point of view very quickly.

And then we are actually making sure that you get his point of view across.

You read what he said that he did not refer to, he specifically did not refer to critics of the war and so forth, but he was referring to those who, when they knew that the president had already, when they were advocating something that they now knew the president was already advocating, that they are continuing that.

You see, that's what I think I said, but I'm not trying to

That's not what he said, but that's what we can say, amen.

Well, you can also go from there and say, Bob, obviously, if you read what he's saying, in the context of how he said it, was not suggesting that critics were hoping for the success of the part of the enemy.

What he was saying...

Which they are, of course.

He can't say it.

What he was saying is that the best way to succeed is for there to be unity behind...

Proposals that the United States government put out and tried to explain it that way and diverted from the, you know, the... What he was saying was that deliverability at this time could only have purpose.

destroying the chances, or leading to the chances of negotiating peace, and could only have the purpose of giving encouragement to the enemy, not to negotiate, that that's what we'll do, and that it was in fact the decision of the people of France, and that anybody could do it.

That's right.

Okay.

We have to keep in mind here, if they press,

If they press and he answers, well, have you talked to the president about this or not, and can you say to us specifically that the president of the United States, he agrees with what Holtman said or does not agree, then I say he's personally, he made a clear expression of personal belief.

But yes or no, if they drive me to that, then I can, I think we should say yes.

You agree?

I know that you've talked to me, yes.

No, and that the president, no, the president's position has always been that there are honest critics of the war, honest critics of the president's peace talks.

And he has no question about that.

And that is the president's position, and that remains his position.

And the...

It's not a question of motives of any...

Bill does not question the motives of any who criticizes peace policies.

It's the program for attempting to end the war, to bring an honorable peace.

President, there's a question over here.

It's the question of the motive that's involved here that you want to knock down.

And...

If I don't deal with this now, then you'll get it on Thursday, and I'd rather if you don't.

Actually, I think we should knock it down if we have a chance, because that keeps it from building.

We'll be forced to knock it down sooner or later.

I'm going to move against this at various levels to see how heated it comes against this.

But let me say that your strategy is exactly right.

Much better for you to handle than for me.

For you to have to deal with it here.

That story of the president going home, that's a problem here.

I would say that going home is only referring to some of those who are going beyond the pale, but not to those people who want us to disagree.

Those honest, courageous people.

There is a question of honest criticism, and then there is a question of those who know better.

That's really what you're referring to.

Okay, well, we're forcing you to resist the presence of the outcome.

The answer is no, but...

Then, building around that, though, these points have been made.

I'm not suggesting we're looking for the success of the enemy.

We're talking about the way we succeed.

We're talking about the effect of a constantly supporting...

of not supporting any peaceful votes, and the effect of basically supporting the, of not supporting the peaceful votes, which is reasonable as far as we can go, and the effect of supporting the votes can only be successful, and

I keep it pretty much in terms of just knocking it down, you know, asbestos, but not to get to, not to try to... Or is it to have no intention of, say, I don't have no intention to question the motives of the Patriots, it's a momentum.

He was only talking about the effect of that kind of disunity and division that...

He encouraged the enemy not to settle.

Then Noah asked me, what was his preference at Muskie?

No, no intervention.

Well, but we have a good line there, because he took this on the 28th, and Muskie spoke on February 2nd.

So I hope they had that right off the bat.

Okay, I'll mention that.

He specifically, I mean, you probably saw it, he was asked, what about the senatorial critics?

Right, but he went out of his way not to do it.

Well, don't worry about it.

I mean, the way you have it is.

Now, on to what we, yesterday, I'm going to simply say there that he, to a great extent, acknowledged everything that the president was saying about the negotiations.

That's right.

I could be very cruel about it.

I think everything they have said supports what we have been saying.

They said last year their demand was we had to guarantee that you wouldn't run in the election.

And...

It is just another version of their saying that we had to change the political structure there.

Did they say that?

That's what they said, yeah.

That's what they said to Barnett.

But what if they asked me, were they willing to separate out the military?

The answer is no.

No, no, because they said, well, even in the stories this morning, Ron, it's weird, but they said, we will separate out the two profiles.

We can do the political thing.

The political thing was always there.

But then I can move back to 92 again.

That's right.

They always had their May 31st proposal.

But I wouldn't get into all that much detail.

I would just say we stick by what we said.

They had never been willing to separate it.

And they're just engaging in various... Now, how would you handle this question?

This is the last one.

Yeah.

Michelangelo said yesterday that had we been willing to deal with military issues long before...

He didn't say that.

He said...

What they wanted, had we dealt with the military issues alone, Chu couldn't have been re-elected.

And had we agreed that Chu couldn't run in the election, then this would have brought about... His point was that had we made the military deal alone, that Chu couldn't have been re-elected.

No, no, but he also said that in addition we had to promise him that Chu wouldn't stand for re-election.

So all they were doing was giving us some ways...

Besides, believe me, our record is so overwhelming on this, that if we are forced into it, they just never offer the military deal.

Well, if I'm asked that question, if someone doesn't understand... Why don't we...

No, no, no.

The Secretary of State Roger said no, and a careful check... Well, as I said in my... Well, let's go back to my speech.

I said no.

They have always insisted, in one way or another, on a political condition.