On February 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and George P. Shultz met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:12 am to 10:02 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 670-005 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello, how are you?
It's morning.
Thank you, sir.
I thought before we met with Arthur, we might make a conclusion about what you wanted.
But it's really just fine.
He is clearly campaigning for convertibility.
Of course.
I think that's a very fun analogy.
One thing that might be worth bringing up and reminding you of, I mentioned this to you this morning down the line.
You remember in the quandary I gave, he acknowledged that he was having trouble with the New York bank and that he was trying to finance them and so on.
The first time he's really in debt, there's a problem.
I was trying to surround you, and that's what it's doing.
The press.
What's it do?
The press.
The press.
You know what's that?
You mean by this, you mean getting coal wire growing and all that?
Everybody stirred up all around, get it in the atmosphere, get people talking about it.
And what does he suggest we do?
We have an international conference that we must do.
Well, he's just, he's doing, he's starting to do the same thing, I think, on convertibility as he did on the income policy.
As he's speaking about in his testimony, he agreed with, or in the question apparently agreed with Henry Royce that by the end of the year we should have made significant steps back to a system of convertibility.
And he'll just be talking that way.
Uh, and that's got to be that kind of, uh... And it's not that you'll have to give him a call right away.
You know, before he gets in here, I've only got a half hour, and I'm going to have something else, and he's got to get his ass in here.
You should tell him to be sure to get here right at 10.
Okay?
Because I have to break the meeting at 10.
They're going to have to waste my time.
Because he, uh, what else, though?
He has, he wrote you about...
problems he sees in the budget, both on the outlay and the revenue side.
He just represented the fact that he suddenly woke up to what things were in there, and the fact that revenue sharing is in there affected what it was.
He suddenly saw that, and he questions whether or not it will pass.
We all know that.
saw that he wouldn't make that $1 billion move of .
Well, at least it seems to me that he gets himself on all sides of all the issues.
And he's pointing out that the budget is not as expensive as it appears to be.
He told the Congress he thought it was really high.
to make it more expensive if he had .
He is positioning himself around on the other side for having such a big deficit.
So he's all over the place.
But he wrote pointing out a number of things that you were well aware of in terms of having made decisions to move these capitals around.
And we also know it was a great problem because of the Treasury withholding rates.
or that the withholding rights are not the treachery before saying, you know, as he said, we should remove the outlays.
Well, he just sort of woke up to the fact that the outlays were moved, and he wanted you to know about it.
And when he talked to me about it, I said, the president knows, not only knows about it, he decided it.
He only has to have a do of it.
And there's not a mystery.
Anyway, on that subject, can I send in a little memorandum of this letter?
I posted you on the island in the east.
So I can realize your independence situation.
Well, Mike, I think Greg's particular.
You didn't see him regularly.
Well, I see him.
I don't see him regularly, but I see him as often as I can stand and listen and need him.
I...
hope and think that the economy is in pretty good shape, but the money supply is beginning to move now.
The fact is there that there was a long period when it didn't.
It is also true that retail sales have not been strong.
You can't find that in the money supply, can you?
Sir?
Retail sales can't be in the money supply, maybe indirectly, but you can.
Say that again.
Oh, well, it depends.
Oh, I think that it's this strong thrust that at least there are the schools of thought that say that it does.
Now, I think that if there is something that anybody can think of that we can do that would help the economy expand, we should do it.
And we don't have to be monetarists or fiscalists or any other.
We don't have to be worrying about anybody's theory at all.
We just have to do all the things, behind which there is a respectable amount of thought that says it might help.
We've done everything we can think of on the budget.
And the retail sales picture I'd like is soggy.
It's very soggy.
If I don't want to talk, all of these, all of our private poles for Christmas should have been good.
But they weren't.
Market to market, not sales.
We see that today.
Yeah, they were good.
And of course, Sears is such an outstanding organization.
I saw Jordan Metcalfe again on Friday in Chicago.
They sell these floating away.
Well, Sears just outpaces everybody.
They're a hell of a good asset.
Well, Arthur's mother says he can't believe it.
Well, I think he says that he's trying.
I thought something I mentioned to you in the last question.
He admitted it was important.
He admitted that he was troubled about the October to December thing.
He admitted he was troubled about the New York bank.
I thought that was the most movement we've ever had.
He is quite optimistic about the account.
And in a way, it's not better if he weren't so optimistic, because it'd be kind harder to put the autopsy in for him.
He may be right, he may be right, but he's...
But then he goes out and does everything he can for a reward.
Don't you?
You see, that's another defense he's building up for not raising money supply.
He's going to say, I'll do this.
Oh, well, I'm just on haywire, and he's optimistic about the contract.
See, anything he can do that he's just building up defenses, that's what it's all about.
I'm just trying to think about how we get around, and that's all.
On convertibility, it's just cold here, and I've told him I'm going home again.
I'm going to do convertibility.
He may bring up the upcoming appointment of Fett, you remember?
He had that long discussion with him about the Procedure.
Yeah.
And I presume...
He's got a man.
I don't know whether he has a man or not, but Fred Malick is not working through to the point where there is the list from which you can choose.
He does, almost.
But you can just listen to him.
I have to see it from Malick.
I think I mentioned this to you before.
He had the swearing in guy.
He had his secretary, the secretary of the board here.
And he made a casual comment to him that he ought to be a member of the board.
And Arthur glows because that is the guy that he wants to see on the board.
And that he will control him.
Absolutely.
He would like to get Rimmer off the board and went through that.
Where have you been all that time?
Statewide?
Anybody that wants to?
The state will not take me.
I used to put a bunch of jobs.
They said a job's no damn good.
I said, you can't do this.
This is going to be a utter disaster.
I said, OK. Warren, do you find anything else?
I just don't think of anything.
I've tried all this.
He's at level three.
Uh, in the government there, there are very few jobs within the government that have got sale on the St. Lawrence Seaway or something, but...
There's some like that out there in St. Louis.
Right.
What would you want to have with Arthur?
The economy has to be a good, strong, expanding economy this year.
I just think we have so much at stake on that.
And he needs to recognize that, and he needs to do everything that he can do.
And he needs to have a little bit of humility that no doubt he's righter than everybody else, but just on the off chance that some of these other people may have a little something, throw another percent or two into that money supply.
Why not?
And why worry about the interest rates going down?
We want low interest rates.
What's the problem there?
So we don't have a return flow of
So what?
Keep the money in the pocket.
We made this thing in the last meeting.
But we cannot continue to have a situation where he comes in and lectures all the members of the quadriads as to what they want to do, and ask what they're going to do, and so forth.
And then when he's asked about the money supply, he says, well, that's independent.
You can't discuss that.
So it's not the end for us.
And this is the last time I'm going to see him.
He's got some 30 minutes.
He's getting the hell out of here.
The war is going to be declared if he doesn't come around some.
He thinks he can get away with this, but Archer has not handled himself well.
And he's not the common man, he's not the youth, he's not...
He's not trying to avoid all the rest.
He's talking to the Jewish press, primarily, because of his very, very great influence, but they change his mind.
And they were murdering everybody else.
And it was what you did before.
You started getting a bunch of .
And I just didn't recognize the little sight that might be there again.
I saw Mark tremble around with a sweet breath, patting the corpse around his neck.
Birds is a, would be a joke.
It's a little joke on the morning board.
That's what he was.
So I'm there.
Just running around, rumbling around, making a few lectures.
All right.
Go for it.
He can't come in and fight for the people there.
And the way he's going to have a fight is he's going to realize that he's going to throw his rivals on the run very specifically.
He's going to inevitably be forced to tell them how to run.
And that's what he's very sensitive about.
He just can't do this.
You know, he's a goddamned, uh, uh, really crazy, so totally irresponsible.
Can I just say what we ought to do about an armistice?
You don't even know what the hell I mean by an armistice, do you?
Nothing.
Well, let's see.
We didn't build it to...
have any sense of humility, his own limitations.
That's right.
He has some ability.
That's what we all have.
We have no regard for the ability of anybody else.
He's done that.
Well, that's fine.
The way it's going to be played, it's going to be played that way.
He has a lot to do with the federal version.
He won't get that appointment, I can assure you.
Whatever his name is, I'll take one of my last other ones.
Straight up to him again.
He had a deliberate policy of positioning himself independently, even if he was basically in agreement with the position he was in.
He wasn't going to like the fact that I had made up this conversation.
Now that he's taken on the value-added facts, he has to.
He raised the subject, Dr. Hershey.
You know, I was talking to you a year ago.
You were the one that heard me, you know.
That's what I'm hearing.
Is that right?
He says it's changed, but not the bad guys' accent.
So I said, you've got to go.
I said, all right.
My memory is much better than yours.
It is.
Your memory is the same.
We like finishing on that.
So we all have to play it our own way.
We just aren't going to have this.
You know what's really tough on Connelly, too, is that he's actually a doctor.
I'm taking a run at him now.
He's planning to re-brawl the models of other kites and run a compound.
There's no question about it.
And frankly, he's got an entree loan.
I don't use it to any good of an expense, certainly, George.
But Connelly's made me shine today.
I think you've got, I think that they have, your liberal Jewish press has such a, such a strong vested interest in killing us.
Like, uh, I think, uh, Art, you know, you might try Schein.
I have very respect for Schein.
Schein's speeches, and I don't know.
Yeah, I heard one of the funniest things.
You know?
I didn't know, but I read the speech, and that's, that only got very joward and humorous.
But he makes a lot of very good points, and he just sort of slips them in there.
He's a delight.
He's a delight.
And he'll know.
He'll know what his friends on the other side are doing.
Like Henry.
Stein is also, although he's more American than Jewish, he understands what he's calling for.
Well, Stein is also a very strong...
I'm an ambiguous supporter of yours.
He's not trying to paddle the independent canoe off in any direction.
He's trying to support your administration.
I don't know whether we all have war with the feds, Nancy or not, but it hasn't come to that.
Let me say it's going to come to that.
It's got to come to that, though, rather than recrimination.
We've got to come to it at a time when this piece may have some effect on it.
He's building every debt defense that he can, George, as well.
And he will fall.
He'll fall.
He'll keep spreading the letters.
May I ask the first people why he is a supporter?
Because he thinks that the Fed has done a lot of damage to the economy by what has already happened, and that you can't change that.
He's glad to see the money supply will be cut.
He thinks it is.
He thinks it is.
And, well, it is.
There's no doubt about it.
Yeah, I know.
But not a hell of a lot.
And, of course, Milton's afraid that the Fed policy of going to extremes will happen again.
And he'll go to the framework of too much infection and that they're facing problems.
And the reason why the economy has so much hesitation is that
that the Federal Reserve will simply not have a steady policy that goes way off in this direction and way off in that direction, and that rather than bribes and lawsuits and so forth causing the problems that Arthur is alleging, that is the Federal Reserve itself.
No, Arthur.
Arthur gets through that.
Arthur gets through everything.
You just can't believe it.
Yes.
I mean, just come over.
And it's all, it's a number of things, but ours, I mean, maybe there is a confidence factor in the rest.
And I don't know, I mean, I was thinking, let us suppose that we had not gone on the August 15th thing.
Well, except basically for the international, which is the best thing about it.
Now the August 15th has worked out well, even on controls.
The controls, I think, are beginning to wear.
You mean they're frustrated?
No, I think the freeze was, I think that was the right thing to do.
It worked well.
You think it was going to have to be a program following it?
Don't you feel, let me come back with it, let's suppose we had it done, though.
I just wondered if we really needed the freeze.
And I think that the prices were moving down.
We can see that .
But I think that the public attitude and reception and business attitude which has to us, it was important.
On the other hand, in August of 18, by that time, one of the reasons the economy was cooling was the money supply had been cool for about five years.
Or to my right, it had not.
And it started cooling on the 1st of June.
Not really.
The figures show a lack of movement.
But, uh, I suspect that the effects have to do with the intervention.
But you're looking at the retrospective in the August 15th?
That's correct.
I sure do.
No, I think that the tax cuts were important.
The closing of Goldman up in September.
and the freeze.
Now, when you say they're beginning to wear, I was looking at Harris' quote, incidentally, John, is that, that should be just taken for the benefit of the domestic counsels that, you know, Brownstone should have given me the price of my interview, and Harris gave a bold attitude toward it.
Now, sir, I've mentioned something else.
I think so.
I think so.
Yes.
Well, because he constantly hasn't seen it.
Now, that's a hell of a note.
Now, you can get a hold of Rumsfeld after this meeting.
He used to take it over very, very commonly.
He can see it, you know what I mean?
He has.
He has.
But the members of the Coastal Living Council, you've got to see it.
The poll, not bad, not bad, because he asked me a few questions about, do you think the prices are being held down enough?
And I say, no.
Do you think the wages are being held down enough?
He says, no.
Do you favor, however, the policy general?
And I say, yes.
You know, so it's one of those things.
The attitude is, you know, the prices are going to be held down enough.
Do you think that you lie?
Well, but the danger in the situation seems to me is the poll.
seems to say the public doesn't feel like it's working very well.
Exactly.
That's what it's like.
What is the response to that?
The response is it ought to be stronger.
There ought to be six lighter controls.
Six lighter controls.
And so on.
What's our hope that if we respond to that in terms of
As some of Greg's statements suggest, and he's responding, all right, if I got you, we've got to tighten up the note.
And they made this move with utilities and the telephone companies, which has really got the utilities in the hell of a frame of mind.
We can be very counterproductive.
I think that we get back to the same fundamentals we've been talking about, that these work things are too close.
One, to have the economy expand.
Two, to have productivity rise.
Everything ought to be gauged from those two centers.
Are you helping the economy to get going, and are you helping productivity to rise?
Because it's the productivity that's going to give you the labor costs to change, which we have in the fourth quarter.
But it all gets back to Archer's confidence that this is all
The ranger's director isn't a hell of a lot we can do about it.
Let me tell you a little bit.
As far as our end is concerned, you'll get the carrot and stick.
That's not all.
We're letting him play his string out.
The, uh, John will be here.
I'm not deliberately doing it this way, but there's no need for more quadriads.
I've got a small ship.
I'm not in that position.
If the sergeant wants to come in, he's not going to come in.
But he's not going to come in like there are other people.
One good thing at the moment.
Well, it's a measure of some kind of confidence, I think, as well as the way things are evolving.
Once the West Coast dock strike is settled, the big New York telephone strike has been settled, our strike levels are at the lowest level in the last 15 years.
What about the dock strike?
As far as I know, there's...
The executive board is still caucusing, but we'll figure out whether or not they're going to put up a settlement to preach this to the government.
We'll let it roll out to some of them.
They may weigh whether or not they want the federal architecture.
Yes, sir, I do.
I think the strike, at least in the abstract, is well worth it.
Well, it's a disruption.
Of course, my feeling, sir, is the reason I asked you that little question is that I'm sure we can get on.
You just can't handle, you know, these damn people in this country.
Why?
We've got much too far in programs, John.
That's what I'm talking about.
That's what we program for.
What the hell do they need?
They need to help people.
They need to help people's consciousness.
We all have reform.
They're going to get to it.
All right, we want to talk about the kind of question that we've all been asking.
that we can't really change confidence with all these gimmicks.
That's why we're really looking at getting the economy to get to that.
That's why I was hoping you'd come back with your traditionalist comments, but I don't believe it.
I do, and I think after the speech that I had, you're getting into the National Press Club.
I don't know whether you saw that or not.
It's just my way of saying it.
that we are going to get hold of the inflation.
And the reason is that we have all the fundamentals going for us as far as we can see on the productivity side.
And I think that while I think that we're strong kind of political leadership reasons for building a freeze, that we shouldn't get trapped by something like the Harris Fund.
where people said they don't think it's worthy.
We're looking at it for a reason stronger.
We shouldn't get trapped into reacting to that and doing it, which is whether that's exactly what's going to happen to us, that we're going to go further in order to satisfy that line.
And I think that is the road to disaster myself.
We're better off being withdrawing from these controls as fast as we can and get rid of them.
Well,
Now, what does Rumsfeld do?
Rumsfeld is, well, he has been working out a program for exempting.
What does he do about that?
He worries about farm prices.
What are we going to have of that?
I think we're going to be sensible enough to stay with that thinking.
Yes, yes, yes.
You can do a lot by government policy.
And the fact is that we have delivered.
We have to make up our mind.
If we want to have high farm prices, fine.
We can do that.
If we don't, we can also do the reverse.
We can get them down by changing our policy.
But the control mechanism is not the way to work on it.
Farm price?
Well, we're cutting down on the planting.
We have a much lesser import of cattle than we could have, and so on.
There are all sorts of levers that you can use in this situation.
But the question is whether we want to.
I think it would, you know, our new secretary of agriculture,
has done a great job .
And I think he's established that fact.
The matter of trouble is the city people are reading his speeches.
And I'll tell you, in Chicago this weekend, I got, what is so damn good about all these prices going up so fast?
And why is the Secretary of Agriculture so delighted?
Because he talked to the farmers that we're listening to.
I think it would be a bad idea if he sort of cooled down his rhetoric a little bit on the president.
He passed on to him in terms basically of talking about other issues for a while.
We've got farming coming up and he's just, he's made his point there.
And now the networks are raining for him every night so he shouldn't, his point should be repeated as well.
We wanted to get his farm income, and then, of course, we wanted to.
We wanted people to tell me they wanted gold.
Gold prices.
The others started attacking the middlemen.
They might be good at it, but they didn't like it.
They were very much for it.
They were very good at it, but, you know, that kind of stuff.
You know, they said, quit letting the farmers or hires or booths rise.
They started making that speech around the Debegog Antelope.
They didn't like it.
Talk about the spread.
I spent the last couple of days in Chicago seeing old friends.
I was interested in the... Really?
Yes, it is.
It's good to get out.
Even in Chicago.
But with a lot of people saying nice things about you to me, they don't.
That's what I think.
I was interested in the number of people, both
among those who have been supporters and those who haven't, the liberal Democrat type.
Sure.
The university community, who say that they've decided they're going to vote for you.
And I said, well, I think there's no problem with that.
Why?
Do you think something wrong with what we're doing?
Well, that's what I thought.
Well, the answer is very general in that it will usually help.
Sure.
And what else they ordered?
Was there any more of the gals who'd been to Liverpool?
Church?
Well, oh, they are tough.
They have a heart of church.
The reason they're watching is they're the ones who live and eat with you.
Everyone, the reason that they talked about that has to do with any particular issue, but more on the notion that
you, uh, you're the president, and that, uh, you act like that, and that, uh, that you've been a pretty good president, and, uh, some of them like you, and some of them don't like you, some of them think you come across well, and some of them think you don't like television.
I'm talking about if they hear you on the radio, they like it better than on the television, and so on and so forth, and so on.
But anyway, what it adds up to is a, uh, a presidential stance in their view.
They think it's what they like, and they don't think that, uh,
too many of the others, or they don't see anybody else around who seems to have that kind of stature.
So it is the interesting thing to me, of course, switching their attitude, but that they didn't pin it on the war, or the draft, or the economy, or welfare reform, or something, but just the notion that, you know, there were a lot of thoughtful things I was going to say on that score.
I have a view now, and I understand, I know, I'm a bit apologetic about our programs.
I think that welfare is one of the best in the program.
I think revenue sharing is a government-reorganized place, and I think the health program, I think they're all good.
But I think, jumping around, I've got a cap on Hopkin Road.
I mean, every time the media starts to squeal about something, we go out and do something as the wrong reaction.
I think we've done that.
And I don't think that helps.
If there is any feeling of confidence in the president's office, I think we now, if anything, may appear to be too much going to the grandstand and getting arrested.
I mean, these people on buses, because I've always seen it.
I'm just afraid that you wouldn't be able to just continue to say, well, nothing works.
You don't agree?
Well, I'm trying to match that up with things we've done.
to see, you see, revenue sharing, for instance, is a sort of an a priori.
If we laid that down to begin with, and then when they bring up problems with the cities or housing or this or that, we say, well, look, we've got an approach to that.
No, I think that what I think is more than what I think is good.
I think that we better not shake them up.
Well, I think we're there in the stance of saying, well, we're not here to suggest another new program.
That's right.
People like that.
That's where we, really, that's where your position is at the moment.
Right.
I've already got some wheels.
I think the idea there, basically, is that John, Connie, and Russell talk, and I talk to you.
Right.
It's a personal message to bring in our envelope.
I talk to John, and he agrees, and I agree.
Uh, uh, I took the liberty to ask Tom Carlisle to contact Russell Tennant.
All right, Russell.
I got it.
I got it.
Uh, Wallace Tennant.
Uh, and as soon as I hear back from that, then I'll contact Long.
What is your view, George, about, uh, what I have to say?
I'm coming.
I'm coming.
I'm coming.
I'm east.
He reads all these talks, as I'm sure you do.
He worries about it.
He's big enough not to be a bit personal.
He's been thinking about it.
He sees it.
He can speak without it.
You know, if you were the same kid, exactly the same analysis, whatever, he's going to try to surround it.
But he's also using Congressmen and Senators and his friends and this and that.
Silly Jackass that he used to know in New York and go down here.
You don't know anything except hell not to pay money.
What's your opinion, George, about that, about Rummy's theme about trolls?
So I understand Rummy believes we should be out there talking more about being border controls or less or what?
What's the problem?
What do you hear, John?
Well, it just came up to me this morning.
Rummy, unfortunately, wasn't there.
Oh, yeah.
We don't know why he said what he did about the media reports.
That isn't anybody that...
No, I understand.
But we frankly don't know where he is.
And it's one of the projects for today is to find out where he's positioned and how he is.
I think it's vitally important that you're here with my son.
And I'll talk to you in two weeks, right?
Because you're getting together with your colleagues here.
All right.
And you better be sure that Connelly and Rumsfeld and Stein and yourself
So the comrades and patrols don't get that whole bit of cautionary counseling and all sorts of other things.
Rocketing off and some silly things and other things.
We just get that and get the war on developing.
You could do that, can't you, George?
How do you do this?
I don't know how to do this.
I think it's easy.
He's served on us, but he's on the leave of absence.
Maybe he's left for the day.
He's got to be gone while I'm gone.
Oh, is he?
He's going to be out of town the whole time you're gone?
Not all the time.
All right.
Okay.
He will be.
John is away right now for quite a while.
John is away for a week or so on vacation.
Well, I just want to be sure that Rockefeller doesn't say anything that Connolly is not glued in on George, because Connolly's out there being asked all the time.
He can't have him, so I don't think I'm so sure yet.
But that may be the end of the conversation.
I'll just say that
Well, I think there's a problem.
The problem we've got is that you cannot have Connelly out there making so many public appearances and then have people in the White House staff going off with the best of intentions saying something different.
It just can't happen.
Yeah, I don't think we have that problem.
You might have it with us, but I don't think we have it.
I think Connelly's feelings are about like yours on this whole thing.
Well, I don't know.
I think John has a little more control.
He's more of a controller.
Well, except that he told me that he thought things were about where they were, and he didn't think.
He completely disagrees with our view, for example, of the pay for it ought to be different than the price for it in our opinion.
And as Connolly pointed out, he says, our view can say that, but how in the hell can anybody in this field like him say that?
We're going to hold down wages and let prices go up?
Of course you can't say that.
Now, you might do it, but we damn well can't say it.
That's what we're talking about here.
So each sees one of them.
Our problem is going to be, I think, when the pay board addresses this longshore settlement and they cut it down and it's a longshore strike, what are we going to do?
Number one.
Number two, the Teamster deferred wage increases.
which will come in April, and Chicago local, which is quite all out there, most difficult local in June, and the rest of the country, are much larger than the pay board standard.
And if they try to cut down the Teamster contracts, again, there's a possibility that the Teamsters will strike.
And that is just what we don't want, is...
to have a transportation system disrupted from the standpoint of a poppy red house.
I don't know.
They are in a box.
It's a hard problem.
What are they doing in the box?
He's friendly.
Try their best to do what he can do.
He can't drive.
We love him in our house too well.
So we would try to talk with him about it.
We have a pay board that's been put on the spot for not being tough enough.
Everybody's lectured up, and Artie is over there.
Of course, Artie wants to help us at the same time.
Artie says, all right, you've given me this task, and now I'm going down this track, and I'm going to see to it that Lone Sherman and the Teamsters are going to get it like everybody else.
So he's an expert gung-ho.
But anyway, I think that there is, it may be when you get back from China, that we should have a for a bunch of people and talk over where we are on these controls and where do you want to go under all the circumstances.
Are we going to go to China?
building up more, or are we going to try to get out to the river?
What is going to be our stress?
We're here.
We can only get it for the people who are going to contribute to the dialogue.
That would be you, the child.
It would be common.
It would be my son.
Probably all of them.
You know, others are going to be in.
You've got to have national interest.
They're not going to be contributed to the dialogue.
I mean, in terms of anybody else who could be there.
Well, would you like me to organize that and have that read it for you and share it back?
Sure.
Well, I have that kind of discussion.
Sure.
I advise you not to be there.
And nobody, no other cabinet officer should be there.
Because they are not here in the whole situation.
It might be, you know, you can't, the pay board is, of course, independent, so you couldn't have whoever may be useful.
It's the kind of meeting that I would do on an off-the-record basis.
I don't want anything publicized about it.
You've got to keep it in common.
I wouldn't want to make much more of anything than that.
I think that if you get other people in... Don Tower has called personally to say that he is being embarrassed and humiliated by his omission from our 11 o'clock busing meeting.
I think we should... Sure, does he got a man in there?
No, but he's got horrible busing problems in Texas.
Well, I'm giving him hell for inviting them.
I mean, he's got to be told he was not... We were just inviting people who had amendments in.
Right.
Well, I didn't have a card.
I can't have the whole goddamn Senate.
Right.
Okay.
Has anybody thought to tell him that or not?
I suppose not.
I read that, too.
He doesn't have anything to tell from that.
He has no amendment.
He's not connected with the legislation.
But, uh...
He's really putting the pressure on us.
It's fine.
I don't want us to take a bad rap shot.
We just can't sit here and say, well, we're sorry.
We should have invited you.
Let me corner him at the meeting and talk to him on those terms.
John, you've got to protect us.
I remember there's several of you at college who were running for city district who also have this problem.
But we have no amendments.
Right.
That's what we did.
Right.
The people had amendments.
Right.
Well, actually, there are a lot of people who have amendments in that won't be here, but these are the key guys, the key guys.
And coming back to the whole situation, I want to say, let's get up that meeting item.
It's got to be very, very interesting to listen to.
And don't let any word get around the person you're talking about always.
He said that I don't want to have a lot of issues, that I don't want to argue with him.
I'll tell you, it's better for you to tell Tom this than you're on the plane and say it.
And that you would say it to him.
He doesn't want any more being with our group.
We're going to need the future.
In fact, we've got to be able to return.
What is your return?
It seems like for this small group to get in and talk about it.
In the meantime, he wants to live, Captain, on all comments on this thing.
And that comment may be gone, but he'll keep the lid on the show.
I'm trying to see him take off his hat now.
And he looks good.
Yeah.
Leadership motion.
I thought it was a dramatic concern.
I wonder how the problem is done.
We may be with it for so long.
It's like, I hate to say it, but it's what comes after the breeze, and how do we get out from under the system of control?
That's our problem.
I hate to know.
Of all this, people have been significant.
Except for the point you made.
Get the economy moving.
It's moving pretty well.
It's coming a little better.
That's not a game you're studying.
You're very quiet.
Listen, look at all the people on the ground.
I don't see that in the film here.