Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on People's Republic of China and Media relations

7:32Just as a matter of guidance, ABC News is pushing Scali very hard on an hour-long prime-time documentary on Mrs. Nixon's visit to China.
7:44And they're asking for, they do it about a month after the trip, and it'd be a wrap-up of her travels, plus any comments and reactions she wanted to make, if she wanted to, because of Mrs. Nixon's China.
7:56The question is, they would like to know beforehand, they'd set the crew up on a basis of doing it, if we agreed that they could do it.
8:08The question is, in our minds, do we want to give ABC News or anybody any segments of exclusivity at this point that we'll maybe regret later?
8:22My view is that we don't, that we say we'll look favorably on all of these things, that we simply cannot commit to any of it, that they should make sure to choose the .
8:30The difficulty of giving NEC or anybody else an exclusive is that you run into a situation where first,
8:39we may decide that, you know, they never know what's going to happen.
8:43Maybe a complete bust.
8:44You know, that they can screw her up to the point where we just don't want that.
8:48That's right.
8:49It won't.
8:50The second point is, I don't think that's what the second point is.
8:55It may be, it may be so good that they may want to have a way to get, I don't know how she can do three networks, but I... She might.
9:02If we run tight, they might want it so badly that they might do it.
9:06But I don't know.
9:06I don't think they can do it that way because they...
9:09I think the best way for a senator actually is through...
9:23through documentaries.
9:24I mean, they've got to present pictures and so forth.
9:29Maybe she would agree to narrate a documentary, which she could do from a script, you see, rather than... Yeah, all that work.
9:37Maybe so.
9:39Well...
9:41My view is that we shouldn't give anybody anything, and just like we won't commit to CPS for Henry, we're saying this sounds like the main disadvantage of committing to ADC for a documentary, then they're going to want to get into special positions and everything like that all the time she's there.
9:57It's like committing to doing a picture cover story for life, and then driving them nuts, and then you've gone to the other people that are along, and they give you a cover story to see.
10:10But we have our own film unit there.
10:13Those are the ones we should give the preferred position to.
10:15Then we can give that film to anybody we want to afterwards.
10:19How good is our film?
10:20Very good.
10:20We're not using the Navy unit.
10:22We're hiring a student.
10:24You can't use the Navy unit?
10:25This is the best Navy unit in the world.
10:28This is not the Navy unit.
10:32We've gone through a whole thing of...
10:34getting the very best cameraman, the best sound man, the best lighting man out of the whole documentary business, the commercial people.
10:43But we're hiring them.
10:43We're contracting them through the Navy because they have the protocol.
10:48Then what we're going to do is the film that they shoot, we'll make it available at cost to anybody who wants to use it, including the Nixon re-election committee or the Democratic National Committee if they want it or anything else.
11:02And that film will be, and to the networks.
11:04Some of the networks will use some of it?
11:06I think they would, because it'll be behind the scenes stuff.
11:09Some of it.
11:11Sure, it's like all these pictures.
11:13That's exactly it.
11:14It'll be like all these pictures.
11:15For instance, on one leg of the flight from Guam to Hawaii to Guam, we're going to let them fly on Air Force One.
11:23They'll get pictures of Bill Rogers and people working around on the airplanes and that kind of stuff that nobody else will have.
11:30It'll be part of the...
11:32Totally controlled.
11:35It's our panel.
11:36Whatever we want to make available, we can.
11:39Whatever we don't, we throw away.
11:40And it'll also be, you'll have the full thing for your archives.
11:46Well, it's all scalloped.
11:47Those of you who have not heard this, we look very favorably on the idea, but we've had, we've had problems with others.
11:53We've already turned on other people, others, you know, as a matter of policy for everyone.
11:58I'm not concerned and so forth, but we're very favorably doing it.
12:07I'll give you the journal, and the things, and see what the times are.
12:12So, what will we participate in?
12:14Well, we've got very little time, but I, we can't have an absolute commitment.
12:18Right.
12:19I want you to be under a good time.
12:22All he's saying is that we give a go-ahead so that their crews can have the project in mind while we're there, and so that our own documentary unit will have this as one of its goals.
12:35Our documentary unit will have this as a major goal, so we'll bring it home.
12:40And their crews could look at another sort of thing.
12:47Oh, you're absolutely right.
12:50I always thought when we made these commitments, we have some regrets from them.
12:57Yep.
12:57And we don't have to do it.
12:59What I mean is, we don't have to take away.
13:02We were absolutely right on the hard line.
13:05As it may, as it might have turned out, they all gave their shots, but they have to keep it as bright as possible.
13:18And they all used to be, he used to do it in his own way.
13:20And that's what they're gonna have to do on China.
13:22And you know, they'll argue, well gee, if you don't tell us ahead, we just can't commit to doing laws.
13:30If it's any good, they'll do it.
13:31If it's not good, we don't want them to do it anyway.
13:34You're absolutely right.
13:36I mean, you're absolutely right.
13:37They said that.
13:38We just hard-line them and said, well, we understand perfectly.
13:42We can tell each other that.
13:44We can tell each other, too, that we are a show now.
13:49And frankly, it's just as much in their interest as ours to do this.
13:53If it isn't in their interest as well as ours, it might be worse if they don't do it anymore.
13:58But I've been very friendly about it since we've been, we like their ideas and so forth.
14:03But we cannot, and I actually have a policy on not letting anybody in.
14:07And that's it.
14:11I think that's the way we've got to do it.
14:13And if we commit?
14:14Yes, if you commit, we'll have a thing.
14:15Say that if we commit, we'll have a thing.
14:18And I'll be allowed to participate too, which is great.
14:21Let's see if you do it now, then they're going to say, well, gee, we're doing this special on Mrs. Nixon.
14:25The president's got to give us 15 minutes.
14:28We can try standing on the wall, but we'll land back down.
14:31Mrs. Nixon's got to give us a little exclusive here in the nursery as you're coming in.
14:35There can be no exclusives off the wall or in the commune or this or that.
14:42That's what they're going to want to ask all the way along.
14:45Right.
14:45Yeah.
14:46And now we've just got to hang tight.
14:49Everybody gets it or nobody gets it.
14:52Except for our documentary crew.
14:53We're playing it like we do all the other work.
14:59I need you to do something.
15:16Yeah.
15:17That's good.
15:19On the post-trip plan,
15:23The way we kind of left it the other day was tentatively figuring out a leadership meeting Monday afternoon after we get back, and then keeping Tuesday and Wednesday clear for Camp David and Thursday for a report of some part of the country.
15:42Friday a cabin meeting in the morning and then leaving for Key Biscayne for the weekend.
15:47and then getting out into the country the following week.
15:50Is that a rough pattern?
15:54All right, because we ought to start figuring out how to get out into the country.
15:59We don't have to lock anything, but we've got to start figuring what we want to do, if that's the pattern we want to follow.
16:04Now, at one point, you had talked about wanting to get moving instantly when you get back.
16:08And Henry just said, again, not in this context, but he said, you've just got to, having done it twice, and Dwight says the same thing, having done it twice, that you come back, it really is hard on you.
16:22You know, it takes three or four days.
16:24You're not missing a cold.
16:25Well, but I mean, before you really feel like you can do anything.
16:28Maybe we don't want to do the brain office then.
16:32I'm not sure you do, but I think we ought to, my view is that we ought to leave the rest of that week clear, but with this tentative plan in mind.
16:39In other words, we ought not to plan anything that you have to do until the following week.
16:46But keep in mind that if you want to, you'd want to report to the nation that first week of the press conference or something.
16:52And you might want to do the bipartisan leaders.
16:55And the leaders was a total no problem.
16:59Oh, I'm not sure we want to meet with the leaders Thursday morning.
17:02I'm having a hell of a rhythm.
17:05Well, I don't know what the hell we can tell them.
17:07We're so damn restricted at the moment.
17:08We're not telling them the present thing.
17:10They're going to ask the usual stupid questions that we don't want to answer.
17:15Are we going to do this and that to Taiwan and so forth and so on and so forth?
17:26I just don't want that to be the way it can start.
17:28I'll set the context with them that just there aren't any commitments.
17:35Well, I know.
17:36I mean, we tried.
17:46All I want to be sure is that you don't want us to crank up some stuff that first week.
17:50If we're going to do that, we ought to get started on it.
17:54And I would urge that we not do it.
18:00Pat's got to go out west that weekend after we get back to Florida.
18:04Yeah.
18:05Oh, that's when I'll be in Florida then.
18:07But I don't think you want to go west.
18:09Oh!
18:09My other son thought of where you wanted to go, but that's a problem.
18:12She's playing under some rating that I don't think you want to get into anymore.
18:17No, I think for me to get on an airplane and take five, five and a half hours to California is about what I need, like a whole night.
18:24You should go to Key Biscayne that weekend.
18:26I should.
18:27And I want that cleared out at least three full days.
18:29Yeah.
18:32Everybody's pretty well geared to that and that's where we're scheduling on that basis.
18:43They understand the point.
18:54sure i'm trying to i want to get them here to that i don't want them to be sitting out here on the lawn when you get back with 30 different meetings that they think you have to have because they think the other way there'll be no problem if they think that way then they can get into the problem well i'm just trying to think that i know this
19:15It's like you're talking to Earth from the outside.
19:18I have major feelings about it.
19:19I do know that we have, particularly after our strong World Revolution, time to be pretty good by coming back and not being an advantage of a high peak.
19:32Well, we disappeared for two weeks then.
19:33Well, we didn't know how to handle some of that.
19:37That's right, we didn't know.
19:38I did tell a lot of things, but we didn't know how to get money out of it.
19:41We didn't know how to get money out of it.
19:44They went in there, signing things, crapping around.
19:47This kind of thing, we can see that.
19:48We can cover that.
19:50Huh?
19:50We can cover that.
19:57Well, and if you get back and you feel like you want to do something, we can move into doing things as fast as you want to anyway.
20:03Without having to be locked in that head of time.
20:11I don't know that I'm important to the nation.
20:15That's the other thing I think we've got to look at.
20:17And I don't know how the coverage goes, but maybe if you don't want to do a report to the nation, maybe the rabbi and the way they handle the communique and all that in Peking, maybe that's the way to leave it.
20:29And we want to remember, too, that... Or some remarks you make when you get off the airplane.
20:34Oh, I have to ask.
20:34I think you probably, if you haven't arranged it, that arrival time has got to be changed so that you can be online all the way across the country.
20:45I don't want to come in in the middle of the day.
20:50I don't care to share about me on the news.
20:52We want to be online.
20:53Is that right?
20:55Well, you can be online.
20:56The middle of the day, they're all open.
20:58That's my point.
21:00We found that in July, it's always in the middle of the day, Bob, forget it.
21:04So maybe we have to change the day someplace.
21:07Maybe we, I don't know about California, someplace else, but you see what I mean?
21:13I think we should be, that's because the arrival statement doesn't mean something.
21:17For me to waste my time with an arrival statement that hasn't come back in the middle of the day is no good.
21:23Well, they're going to cover it live as sure as it's sure to proceed.
21:27You know that.
21:28Oh, they'll cover it live?
21:29No question about it.
21:31We don't care then about it.
21:32I mean, we must not go in the middle of the day.
21:34If we're going to get live coverage, you see, we couldn't assume that would pack it back from Africa.
21:38Of course, you didn't get live coverage.
21:41But we don't know.
21:41Well, we're going to get live coverage when we come back.
21:45We move it back to 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock at night.
21:50Noon is wrong.
21:51Noon is worse than 10 hours.
21:53You see, you're planning there.
21:54I know why you did that.
21:55Well, we didn't actually get a crowd out of the airport.
21:59No, we did it because of the time you leave Shanghai.
22:03Oh, I see.
22:06Stay a little while, Shanghai.
22:07I'm back with Irving once we go.
22:09So you leave Shanghai at 9 o'clock at night.
22:18Now if that's the point, then that's the USA project.
22:24You leave actually to be in Shanghai at 10 o'clock in the morning on Monday.
22:30Now what you do is spend the rest of that day in Shanghai.
22:33If that's not a good idea, you can then.
22:35How about the night before?
22:42Well, they have a dinner and a cultural show that night.
22:45You can leave after that.
22:48If you left with Shanghai at, uh, Mobile Island, now you can't see the parks there.
22:59The difference is, you get here two hours after you leave Shanghai.
23:02The time difference and everything.
23:07on the same day.
23:07Well, how about staying, spending the night in the basin?
23:11That would be the easiest thing.
23:13And maybe it's not a bad idea anyway.
23:15You get to Anchorage, well, you're gonna have a hell of a hell of a lot of land that's all that money.
23:22It's just awful.
23:23What is it like?
23:23Must be, what is it, 18 hours?
23:25Something like that, yeah.
23:29Oh, you leave at 9.
23:32Right.
23:33Well, 9 p.m. Washington, your departure from Shanghai is at 9 o'clock Eastern Time.
23:39See, that's a good ceremony, too, on television.
23:40That would be Sunday night.
23:47Then you...
23:51It's eight hours to... Anchorage.
23:53Eight and a half hours to Anchorage.
23:58And another seven hours here.
23:59Fifty-fifteen hours.
24:01Fifteen hours on a goddamn plane is not a good idea.
24:07Well, why not?
24:08You know that you can stay around at the base.
24:10You've got comfortable quarters there.
24:11It's only a couple of nights away there.
24:14Yeah.
24:14When you did Erolita.
24:17Be that house where you met with Erolita.
24:20Which is a good setup.
24:21And it's right on the base.
24:25You'd arrive in Anchorage at midnight.
24:29And, uh, you could not then cut off both of the other people on either of the parks or something.
24:34That is not a very interesting and important mistake.
24:39Well, then let us come out for the departure.
24:41Not the arrival at midnight, but for the evening.
24:43Anchorage then at about 9 or 10 in the morning.
24:46Anchorage time.
24:50And get in here and, uh,
24:59Hard times with your feet.
25:01That's what I want here to just pull out of shame.
25:08I don't just want to get here as fast as you can in person.
25:13How much is the arrival here?
25:20It's the report information.
25:23That's what I think.
25:27Do you feel like doing that much of a report to them?
25:31You would never think that.
25:33That's my old nation monster here.
25:36The nation doesn't want to hear me get a song.
25:41Oh, you're right.
25:41Five to ten minutes.
25:42Well, we had a wonderful time.
25:44We met a lot of interesting people.
25:46I hope it's a step toward peace, and God bless you all for your prayers.
25:49Thank you very much.
25:51That's a hell of a lot better than having to see my face dropping around about this thing.
25:53You know what I mean?
25:57Well, you might be a hell of a lot better off to have gotten off the airplane for eight hours.
26:26Got into a bed, had a shower, and a good meal, and all that stuff, and got away from those engines.
26:37And then get back on the plane and have a still seven-hour flight, which is a long damn flight.
26:49Can we think a little bit more, too, about whether we are missing something?
26:53We're not trying to find vision.
27:08We're just thinking about what we're in control of.
27:12All right.
27:13No problem.
27:13Good.
27:15Good.
27:26It's looking at our business.
27:56I think they got to the feeling, they got to have the feeling that I'm back in charge in Washington.
28:01I agree with that, except that I'm not so sure.
28:03You're not gone that long.
28:05See, that's the thing we keep.
28:07You're right.
28:08You realize we'll be back two weeks from today.
28:10This is 15.
28:10We're back before that.
28:15We're back in 28.
28:16We're back two weeks from yesterday.
28:17That's right.
28:18It isn't that long.
28:25I mean, hell, if we've got that conference small, then we're gonna be padding on, and now they'll be going on the Jefferson Day speeches.
28:35I don't know.
28:37That's if you're healthy.
28:38And plus, if I could do the seven cents on these .
28:41Well, I would want to go.
28:44I know that my system will need, I think it will need, three or four days in Florida at that point.
28:50On a completely relaxed basis, I think we'll need that.
28:55And I suppose in California, you go there, and then you rest in California, and now you rest in Florida again.
29:01That, I think, is a problem.
29:02I think if you want to get to Florida, it's better to come here or go to Florida than it is to go to California.
29:08February was a very, very long, long train.
29:11It's not good.
29:20Also, I don't know, I just think for national television, the arrival with the diplomatic corps in the Congress is a hell of a lot more impressive than with a bunch of people in sports shirts that nailed it all over time.
29:34We can crank up a banger and all that there, but it still isn't .
30:30I thought about this a little last night and I was thinking, I know on the right of all, we don't want to go to 12th and sometimes you have a strong feeling, but that's, I suppose you were thinking in terms of getting to some of the news, but I was thinking in terms of just that the rival wouldn't,
30:48that you'd have a different report to the nation.
30:50I can't go over to your point.
30:52We may very well want to consider not doing any report to the nation except the arrival until maybe a week or ten days later when you have a press conference or something like that.
31:00Yes.
31:07But see, if the report to the nation is going to be made, I want it to come.
31:14I want to look good to another thing.
31:16I don't think, what I mean, as good as I can.
31:20I mean, if I try to do it two days later, or three days after I go back to bed, I think I'll like it.
31:27There's makeup and everything.
31:29Chances are you're going to look more tired then than you do when you get off the airplane.
31:32And when you get off the airplane, look, you tear out the bed.
31:34That's right.
31:34They always expect you to look tired in three days later.
31:37That's what the whole matter is.
31:38He's an old man.
31:40No, sir.
31:41Bases would go through if you got a little more time.
31:42Well, the inspector will look tired when you get off the plane.
31:44They kind of like it.
31:46It looks like you've been laboring hard for weeks and all that.
31:49But that's right.
31:50If you wait a couple of days, you're going to say, geez, it doesn't look so good.
31:58Also, if you do it out at the airport, the setting and all that, it's a new setting rather than a stage setting in the office.
32:06Yep.
32:06He's sure.
32:15And the other thing you should think of is to stretch the story out a little that way.
32:20And maybe a couple weeks later, I'll press on a little bit later.
32:25For that, I know they'll be stronger around other issues.
32:30Another thing that I've been here to be honest with you, and that's the way it is.
33:14Let me say, I'm afraid to be honest here, if you're doing it in any way, instead of going and spending the night in Anchorage, you could spend it in Los Angeles on the way back.
33:23How far was that flight?
33:25Will you see what time Julia sent, please?
33:29We can't make it all the way.
33:34We could stop in Hawaii and review and go on into Los Angeles.
33:51It would be no problem.
33:53I don't know, but I can sleep in Los Angeles.
34:04Maybe it makes a much difference, doesn't it?
34:08Although it would be, it would make the difference that if you were to stop in Hawaii and refuel and then go to L.A., you could spend the night at your home.
34:18Well, that means you're a welcome to Los Angeles, so it doesn't have to feel a welcome here.
34:30Yeah.
34:30All right.
34:37The problem is, an arrival in Los Angeles is a rally.
34:41An arrival here is an official ceremony.
34:43Yeah.
34:45And the level of this whole thing is such that everyone ought to come back to Washington, I think.
35:15Which secretary would you be taking this to?
35:20This one is, I find, about the best next to Rose.
35:26She's a fantastic wife.
35:31She is a super machine.
35:32She really is.
35:33Well, you get a few meetings around her.
35:39It's Rose and Nell.
35:40Those two will ask her because they're pros.
35:45And Nell, there's no... Nell's value is that she can work across the board.
35:50She knows everything.
35:51She knows how to handle any of them.
35:55She can't back up yourself.
35:59But she's very good for the rest of the staff.
36:01Rose isn't much good for the rest of the staff.
36:06Discount, please.
36:07Is there anybody to do any password?
36:08She doesn't have a password.
36:11Sure.
36:12All roads now.
36:14What roads?
36:15Road shift.
36:15I don't know if that'll work.
36:21Well, we've got a couple of guests here, secretaries.
36:27And it's ridiculous.
36:27Roger's just out hanging around, so he won't have a damn thing for her to do.
36:32Will you?
36:35We're making the point to everybody that nobody has any private property on this trip, that whoever is there is there to help out with whatever needs to be done.
36:53Not to have her down for what they're doing.
37:41But you read, it's like trying to do your own typing, or your own filing, or your own answering the letters.
37:50Anything that anybody else can do, even though they can't do it as well, let them do it.
37:56Especially that, there's just a hell of a good reason for a person who's on display.
38:05I don't know about it, but it's just ridiculous.
39:20I'm awfully glad I got to have this garment last night.
39:22It was a nice thing for him.
39:30Now, they all just sit in a small room.
39:33Well, Lennon particularly loves that, and then he used to sit with them during my role, and oh, God, it would be very meaningful to him.
39:40Well, I mean, I think he did all of them, you know, but one of the great literary geniuses of all time, and, you know, he's... And here, I'm sure that it's...
39:50And before you know it, another thing, I changed the CD a little.
39:53I didn't know he had the time to put it, but I had somebody else buy him.
39:56And I put Smith on it, Mark Smith.
39:58Of course, Smith managed to talk to him in perfect French.
40:03Because Smith was in, Trant was in Europe, and Smith was a hugger to Mackey.
40:09So, which of course was the, as he did the golfs, the war, that kind of thing.
40:15So it gave me a lot of relief because I didn't have to talk to them all the time.
40:19On my right, you could talk to him in French.
40:21Just a great, great idea.
40:26Well, it was great to have Smith there, too.
40:31He was worth a lot to us.
40:33Well, the only thing, the way he did go to China wasn't to face the Russians.
40:38They grew up.
40:39How does that end?
40:42I need to rush it.
40:42She doesn't want to go.
40:45I don't want to get past you.
40:51I need to get past you.
40:55Do you see what I will do if I'm not personally employable?
40:59The mystery is, is we have to cut her.
41:04I mean, that is the norm.
41:16That's it.
41:20Nobody's been there for so long that no president's ever been there.
41:25No president's been to Moscow either.
41:28But people out of Kiev, they know what's happening in Moscow.
41:32They don't think they know what's happening in Kiev.
41:43You can still change that pattern, can't you?
41:46Sure.
41:48Sure.
41:48So, I think we've got trouble probably changing anything out of China, but we can... Oh, don't try that.
41:55I don't think you want to spend any more time there anymore.
41:59If you have a whole day, you might get out the night before, but I think that would be a little bit... Yeah, it would be...
42:08I mean, we talked about that.
42:09As a matter of fact, we wanted to do that.
42:11I think you can insult the Chinese if you have a real problem doing that.
42:16Because we tried to skip the dinner and leave before dinner, and that all shook.
42:20And then the cultural show there is, they're very proud of us, most of them.
42:30It's going to be a good thing for the Chinese.
42:33But we can certainly change anything.
42:34Once we're out of Shanghai, we can do anything we want.
42:52to decide at this time.
42:57Let me ask, if you had to stop at Anchorage and stayed overnight, you would agree that you'd have to let a crowd come in here before you see us all the next morning, would you?
43:07Yeah.
43:07I don't think you could cut that off.
43:08They would feel apparently inclined.
43:13So that's all right.
43:14You could do that very easily.
43:15Which is exactly what happened immediately.
43:18He said, first of all, get a lot of courage.
43:20You leave there.
43:21Wait there around 12 o'clock and say, what time is it?
43:26No, what time is it?
43:28You leave there around 10 o'clock Eastern time.
43:31Oh, yeah.
43:31Oh, sure.
43:33So other than that, you've got a health timer.
43:34It's 5 at the health unit.
43:36You've got a 5-hour timer in a train from New York.
43:40Yeah, but you, I'm talking about Eastern time.
43:43If you want to arrive here at 9 o'clock, you have to leave there at noon Eastern time.
43:46It'd be 7 o'clock bedtime, 2 o'clock.
43:49Yeah, that's right.
43:49You'd be early in the morning there.
43:51Yeah.
43:52So, so it was, you won't get live coverage, but it was got a, it was got a nice radio story all the way.
43:57He was in love with the DMV kids.
44:00But I would have to be very careful not to say the name there.
44:11I wouldn't say.
44:11And on a departure, you know, it's easier to get away with the departure thing than it is with an arrival plane.
44:16You can get off the plane, you've got a problem.
44:18But when your car comes up to get on the plane, we just have a... You don't have honors and fans and trooping the line and all that stuff.
44:30You just let the folks come out, wave and cheer.
44:32I need you to get away with that.
44:39I have to say a word, though, to the microphone.
44:41I have to say thank you very much for coming out to see us off at this early hour.
44:45It was good of you.
44:46See, that's how you kill it.
44:47You're back in the United States right now.
44:57That was why we were going all the way through.
44:59It was just going to happen.
45:00A closed deal at Anchorage at midnight.
45:04So close.
45:06Yeah.
45:08We can't.
45:12Keep it closed.
45:16You know, there could be some people out there in mechanics and stuff like that, you know.
45:22What I meant is, though, you could do it from a wave.
45:24It would only be a wave kind of a deal.
45:26No microphones.
45:29Maybe that's the deal.
45:31What harm is there in that, stopping an anchorage that most people don't think is in the United States anyway?
45:36You know, they don't think of that every time.
45:39And you just hear, here we are, and he's on his way, and that's the shot.
45:43Not say a word.
45:43I think he'll think if you say a word.
45:47Shake a few hands, I think you have to do that.
45:57But you're finding me to arrive here at nine o'clock Eastern, huh?
46:01Well, if you're gonna go for television, you might as well.
46:04Am I wrong?
46:05Do you believe that it's a good live show in return?
46:09If you're gonna say something, yeah.
46:12to say something.
46:13I'll say something in the internet.
46:15They walk out there and somebody gives you a welcome home thing and you get up and say something.
46:20You always do that.
46:24We thought you'd be tired from the flight, you wouldn't want to get the maximum TV.
46:30You'll get a good spectacle shot on the news.
46:32Of course, I know, it's not the same thing that's coming online.
46:37No, that's right.
46:38It is.
46:42A lot of people would tune in and go, how do you get the weather?
46:48Because people would be in the pattern of watching you at odd times anyway.
46:50At odd times.
46:53But you won't.
46:56There's no way you get anything while the audience you get at night.
47:00Well, let's think about it.
47:02Maybe we're camping on something that we can't, so maybe they wouldn't cover the line.
47:06It's not a possibility.
47:08They've had so damn much and so forth.
47:12Just arriving home.
47:15Now, if I could do it as well, I wouldn't be able to check and conceive, but I just can't conceive that they wouldn't cover the line.
48:03He said, he would.
48:04I said, I sure do.
48:10And there's no question they would cover a lot of the name.
48:13That's, listen, that turned me on.
48:16I mean, it's like the state of the union.
48:2030, 40 letters.
48:22You can't get a bigger audience than you have in the state of the union.
48:27It's not much of a problem.
48:35No, this is maximum 10 to 12 million.
48:38This is against 60 to 70 million.
48:41Well, it's kind of tall, plus the middle three rounds.
48:44Plus the middle three rounds, which is another 20 million.
48:55At the maximum outside, you can get close to half the people.
48:59That's half the number.
49:05Hi.
49:05Hi.
49:06I'm sorry, buddy.
49:08He went in a small pipe with a heart.
49:11Oh, okay.
49:35So, let me get to one thing.
49:43I think that just from a physical standpoint, we should not fly all the way from Shanghai to Washington.
49:51I just have a feeling that that is too goddamn hard.
49:55I mean, we'd live in on that airplane for 15, 16 hours.
50:06I don't think, the more I think about it, that a stoppage in Anchorage is really a...
50:21I just have a feeling it's going to kill the Washington sub.
50:28I may be wrong, but I just don't think it is.
50:36And the one thing we could outsmart ourselves, if they didn't carry the arrival lot, we'd really screw ourselves.
50:42Because you'd miss the news.
50:43Because you'd miss the news.
50:44The noon thing, you know they carry a lot, and you know they have a big chunk of it on the news.
50:51In fact, they'd probably carry the whole thing if you spoke less than 10 minutes.
50:55That's what I would do.
50:58I would plan that.
51:09And then I'll have him, you know, the scouts, the professor's office, isn't there?
51:12Yeah, the scouts.
51:13We've got to get him cleaned up and washed.
51:19Go ahead and say that again, please.
51:22And the scouts, let's say they come there too, you know, a big deal for him to be.
51:28Yeah, well, you know, Mr. 13, I'm awfully glad you love him.
51:31It was very good to lead him on and make any difference at all.
51:34He's with us now.
51:35He's not ABC.
51:36And who the hell cares?
51:36Who knows anyway?
51:38You know, that is one way to reward our friendship.
51:44We all like to spend the day like that.
51:49Right?
51:52Well, that's kind of the dinner that Howard Smith will never forget the rest of his life.
51:57And that's where he seems to forget a lot of stuff.
52:01A White House dinner is just another White House bomb.
52:04They were very effective, but this is bigger.
52:07This is bigger.
52:08Said to a guy like Smith, this would be much bigger.
52:11I would thank him.
52:12I'm sure it would be.
52:19And to a guy like, to a guy like Scala.
52:23It's those things, scouting, we've done some damn good stuff for her.
52:28You know, that, being in Perino's that night after the signing of the announcements, you know, all that kind of stuff was... Did you notice that the LA put a hell of a play in the news speakers about the district who was living with China's restrictions, Scott?
52:45Yeah, oh yes, there was a hell of a play.
52:47I don't want to call it even negatively known, but yes.
52:49Yes, it did.
52:52China was big yesterday with the schedule.
52:55China had busted.
52:56You totally doubted the news yesterday.
52:58Both sides.
52:59Back there, foreign and domestic both.
53:01And the Monroe thing was a nice little sprinkler.
53:06I was just saying to Bob about the nicest thing he could have done for Len Donovan.
53:10He never gets to anything.
53:12Oh, he was really delighted.
53:13And also for Howard Smith.
53:15He also spoke French.
53:17That's why I put him by my role.
53:19And also because I put him there and learned he spoke French the moment I arrived.
53:25And Andrew Scali.
53:27Those are guys that don't get to events very often.
53:30Scali's been getting to a few events.
53:33Don't you think they got any kind of interest?
53:35You know, the thing is, because Mauro wanted to feel authentic in his part-time, and actually get used to the tape that he had, it was just fascinating.
53:46Didn't they have, didn't they, didn't they probably all have it?
53:52Everyone enjoyed it.
53:53It was fascinating, and it was really wonderful.
53:58And your change was very good.
54:01Somebody ought to make their notes of it.
54:04Instead of putting it in the file, I didn't make any.
54:10I won't.
54:11It's time to make any notes, except stuff that easily changes people.
54:14But we had a very easy analysis.
54:21I'm surprised at his reaction.
54:24He was violent against Kennedy.
54:27He's having a press conference today, and I bet he'll react that same way Martin gets to the question.
54:32He said he was...
54:38Kenner told me this morning.
54:40Deranged.
54:40I thought it was deranged.
54:41I thought it was Steve Carlin.
54:43No, it's something like that.
54:45Demented.
54:45Demented.
54:46Demented.
54:46Demented even worse than deranged.
54:48He said, only if the men in mind.
54:50He said, only if the men in mind.
54:51It's quite irritating.
54:54Or he said, a bunch of women.
54:55He said, it was women.
54:56You see, he has been quite a can-be-eye.
55:01Oh, sure.
55:02John Kenner developed his book, too.
55:06John Kennedy, I don't know if it was John as much as Bobby, you know, the woman.
55:12He dedicated his book to her.
55:18You know, Jacqueline Draghi.
55:22He's a romantic, despite his duller exterior.
55:27He's kind of a brush talker, isn't he?
55:29He's going after the Kennedy grade this morning.
55:34Nothing wrong with that.
55:37Might as well identify a little with the candy grape.
55:39Damn right.
55:41That doesn't hurt us a bit.
55:47But he was really, he was angry about it.
55:49He said he was embarrassed because it was such a stupid remark.
55:53He said he might have doubted it.
55:56He was just deducing that because one was the most populous and the other was the most prosperous, that the two inevitably in some time in the future would, they had to get it.
56:09It's like that.
56:13He said even though the question does not, will not come up.
56:16He said the question will never be raised to the Miami Bridge and its third, fourth area.
56:22Yet even if not raised, it will still be a question that exists.
56:26Will the Bridges section of the world assist the, you know, East Coast?
56:33They may push it today on Bangladesh, which we, of course, stay away from.
56:39That's all I'm going to say.
56:42It's a dead story.
56:44They're going to be mortgaged in China.
56:58We were discussing the arrival and return.
57:02I'm telling Bob that coming back at 12, in my view, is a dead loser.
57:09So first, forget the lodge.
57:10I mean, it's not .
57:11I mean, you're just playing for a written story on the radio, five or six million people.
57:20Maybe it's eight or nine.
57:27But the question is whether or not if we come back at night,
57:36We carry on.
57:37The point being that the more I think of it going on, probably three or four days later, the more it's more likely that we believe it.
57:51The report on China is going to be terribly asthmatic.
57:54There's a goddamn thing I don't want to say about China.
57:58I'm trying to sit in communication and say it all.
58:00I don't need to be hedged, re-hedged, and so forth.
58:06And we will want to move.
58:07I just don't want to make all networks and everybody sitting there in a chair and having
58:14report on that basic kind of trip that people are not interested in.
58:18I mean, except for the news and disease.
58:22In other words, what do you do about Taiwan, and what about Japan, and what about trade, and what about culture exchange?
58:27The average person wouldn't give one ticker's bin about that kind of thing.
58:35If we come then, and in terms of making bad news, we can do that.
58:39If we want the leadership, we can do that in a whole variety of ways.
58:43If we want to do something, that's where we return.
58:49Now, therefore, I was thinking that inevitably when you return, there's always a statement made.
59:00What we really want is to have that statement heard by a hell of a lot of people while they're still caring.
59:07And I was thinking of coming off the plane at 9 o'clock at night and get to welcome the diplomatic corps and the rah-rah-rah on the band, setting them up there, and then just speaking.
59:22directly to the people playing in the background.
59:29We have returned for 10 minutes.
59:34And so what we have basically is a total time of 30 minutes, and I have to take from 9 to 10.
59:44We might finish by 9.20, but my point is that they would have to take turns of their hands to lose a half hour time, but 9.30.
59:54Now, the question is, and this is the critical question, whether they would carry that out.
1:00:13Well, now we can run into this before we're to heaven.
1:00:15I came back from one of the other trips, and we all expected live coverage of that damn thing, the wasteland record, didn't we?
1:00:23I don't know which it was, but it made quite an impression.
1:00:25We thought it was live, and it wasn't Europe.
1:00:29No.
1:00:30The first European trip they covered... Well, on the round-the-world trip when the Vice President fell, remember?
1:00:36That was the first European trip when he fell.
1:00:40That was on the round-the-world trip.
1:00:41They did not cover it.
1:00:43The round-the-world trip, he came almost...
1:00:47I know that lot, but it was daytime.
1:00:49I know there was one where we came back at night and they did not cover it.
1:00:53That's right.
1:00:54I don't know which it was, but the question is, will they cover this arrival lot?
1:01:00The question is if he comes back.
1:01:03I don't care about life.
1:01:08I know, but that's the thing answering Ron's point.
1:01:1010 o'clock in the morning, sure they covered a lot.
1:01:14The question is if he comes back.
1:01:17I don't care about life.
1:01:26You can find out, but I'd give you the answer now.
1:01:28They're gonna cover it live.
1:01:29The President of the United States flying out of China, direct through Anchorage and asking, what do you think it might is?
1:01:33That's the other side.
1:01:34In order to get there, it wouldn't have been direct through Anchorage.
1:01:37They'd have to stop at 12.
1:01:38Only, but on the other hand, remember, we would stop there, go to bed.
1:01:44Stop there, go to bed, and leave at 7 in the morning.
1:01:47In other words, the whole purpose in Anchorage would be no saving.
1:01:59I'll tell you another thing, too, if you want to do it.
1:02:05If you want to do it.
1:02:07What was the time of the ride on 12th and 9th?
1:02:08You should just spend nine hours more in Shanghai if you don't want to.
1:02:14If you do, you can.
1:02:16You take a little of the speak off.
1:02:21Yeah.
1:02:22Back in the United States, he's home safe, even though Anchorage isn't considered America.
1:02:26Because they're liable to just go into the anchorage and cover your line.
1:02:30Why?
1:02:31Now, who would give anything?
1:02:33Why, I know, but they're liable to take a live anchorage.
1:02:36Okay, let's do it.
1:02:36Here's what happens.
1:02:38Let's think that through for a minute.
1:02:40What would happen if you arrived in Anchorage at midnight Anchorage time?
1:02:45And it's a closed arrival.
1:02:47We close the base.
1:02:48There's nobody there.
1:02:49Nobody.
1:02:50It's 20 bullets in our way.
1:02:52Everybody's in bed.
1:02:53We get off the airplane, get in the cars and drive to those places where we stayed before and go to bed at midnight.
1:03:04Stay there until 9 o'clock in the morning.
1:03:08And get up and go out to the airport.
1:03:12At that time, there would be some people around.
1:03:14but you know official type of thing.
1:03:16You sway a bass drum, tell the bass close, and the president just waved to those folks, and he waved to them, but he doesn't say anything.
1:03:24So they're carrying it live, so what the hell?
1:03:25You've got a picture of the president getting on the airplane.
1:03:28I still think you do, and that's 2 o'clock in the afternoon, so there's no audience.
1:03:37that you lose because you have the president leaving him and flying across the story it's all or the president is waning as well you know and it's kind of and then if you stop in Anchorage and sleep I mean you lose that let me ask you this really isn't it easy to resolve this thing
1:04:02If I simply stayed here the next morning and drank, I'd have to go to the coffee room or some kind of thing.
1:04:08Just leave a little later.
1:04:11You have to leave nine hours later, though.
1:04:13You'd have to leave, you're not scheduled to leave Shanghai at ten o'clock in the morning, their time.
1:04:17You would have to stay until seven o'clock in the evening.
1:04:25Now, another way you could do it is to shift the thing.
1:04:30and go away at wide.
1:04:33Now is that, now that's, that adds four hours of your time.
1:04:39Is that bad?
1:04:43Jesus, it puts you on a goddamn airplane for 20 hours.
1:04:50I didn't get something bad, it's disastrous.
1:04:53That's wrong too.
1:04:54I can't sleep there.
1:04:56The other factor is, if you're gonna go on
1:05:01TV.
1:05:01You want to be as good as you can be.
1:05:05You're going to be better on TV if you slept on the ground, had a shower and breakfast.
1:05:13True.
1:05:14And then come out with only seven hours on the airplane instead of 15 hours on the airplane.
1:05:19That's a hell of a difference.
1:05:21My word, you can't argue with the fact that she wouldn't be more rested and feel better.
1:05:26And look better.
1:05:27And look better.
1:05:29That is a long... You don't look good sitting on an airplane for 15 hours.
1:05:33It's a long ride across there, I'll tell you.
1:05:37You have a bed on the plane and all that, and you...
1:05:41Take it pretty easy, but it ain't like I'm sleeping in the house.
1:05:45I don't know.
1:05:48I'm sure of that.
1:05:50I told you I'd go to the coaching room.
1:05:54I got a damn ticker.
1:05:55They all screwed up.
1:05:57Well, they're playing third and higher than me.
1:06:03I was coaching.
1:06:05I told you.
1:06:06It was nothing.
1:06:07We circled for six hours.
1:06:11He served in the yard, and he served with Boston, and he served with Washington.
1:06:18He went back and landed in 24.
1:06:23This was in 1967.
1:06:23He landed 23 hours in a coach.
1:06:28Unbelievable.
1:06:29But it was a wretched experience.
1:06:35Wow.
1:06:37I can see your point, Ron.
1:06:38It would take some of it off, but it'll take it more off to the press corps, maybe, in a way, than it will to the people.
1:06:45People don't know what he's doing because they're not in touch with him.
1:06:51He's on his way back from China.
1:06:54Going over, we stop for two days to spend the night.
1:06:57Coming back, we stop for one.
1:07:05We call it a dealing shop.
1:07:06Yeah, but see, the other thing you get in there too, and I might as well talk about all aspects of it.
1:07:13No, you don't.
1:07:14You get this.
1:07:15You've got the thing of the president's holding over in Alaska in order to make primetime television.
1:07:20That's going to be said, and I don't think we should have that said.
1:07:23We've already announced my return.
1:07:25No, sir, we haven't.
1:07:26We've left the whole thing totally loose.
1:07:28It's not holding over in Alaska to get on primetime.
1:07:30It's...
1:07:31You come out luckily on times of the day.
1:07:35You arrive in Alaska at midnight.
1:07:37What do most sane people do when they get someplace at midnight?
1:07:40They go to bed.
1:07:41If we were arriving in Alaska at 10 o'clock, I don't believe it.
1:07:45I just can't believe they're going to make that.
1:07:47Because of the fact that they expect you to get some sleep before you go.
1:07:57And so they say that he's going to give
1:08:00Would you be willing to build up your remarks a little bit?
1:08:03I intend to.
1:08:04I mean, to make the blood and veins build up, because that's the other point of it, is that the President, that's the way to assure that you'll be on line for one minute, is to say the President plans to make his remarks.
1:08:16There's no question about the fact that they will cover the arrival line, no matter how we do it.
1:08:23No question about the fact.
1:08:24So, you know, the decision about staying overnight in Anchorage and so forth,
1:08:30It does not relate to the law of television.
1:08:34Let's come again on the thought of leaving Anchorage out of it.
1:08:38Because for us, we're moving around Anchorage.
1:08:50Do you ever go into town?
1:08:51I don't.
1:08:52We have five months on our hands.
1:08:53It isn't a hell of a lot of advantage.
1:08:54What I meant is that the plane and the tire and so forth shows 15 hours, but we are in a little different situation.
1:09:01Unfortunately, other people are not in it, but I will have a bed, and I'll sleep in the bottom-down bed, and I can stretch out.
1:09:12When you have privacy, you can be left on your own.
1:09:16Most people don't have a right to survive.
1:09:18Now the point is, it's too much to see if we can get the Chinese.
1:09:26I think it's worth, let me say, I think we can think of the difference between being online with 10 million and a little tremendous news.
1:09:37And by being alive, it's a real arrival of 90 with 60 million.
1:09:41It's worth it.
1:09:43So now the question is, can we stay in Hong Kong?
1:09:47I don't know what are the .
1:09:50They got some other things they'd like for us to see.
1:09:56Now, quite incidentally, one thing you could do, certainly, is to make your refueling stop, so that you didn't leave at seven o'clock at night, which would look like trying to get here at nine o'clock at night.
1:10:11I think we could, I'd just like to send it off a little bit earlier than that, and let the refueling stop be two hours.
1:10:19Yeah, the problem then is that two hours is at 9 o'clock in the morning in Alaska instead of at midnight.
1:10:26Oh, I should obviously... Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't, but... Maybe he's paying us to get off the bike.
1:10:33How do you keep the governor and the folks away?
1:10:39Now, you're still at 9 o'clock there anyway, because your departure there is at 9 o'clock in the morning, but suddenly you get away with a wave of the hand on a departure that you can't learn how to run.
1:10:50It's pretty hard just to get off.
1:10:55Or let's say you don't get off.
1:10:56How come you can't sit on the airplane for two hours?
1:11:01You can't resolve it.
1:11:03You can't resolve it.
1:11:11You've got to add nine hours to the thing somewhere.
1:11:23And the way to add it is to spend nine hours longer on the ground in Anchorage, which is, it turns out, it's the best possible timing you could have for a building, arriving at midnight, going to bed, and leaving at night in the morning.
1:11:37If you're going to do it at all, I agree with you that it does take some of the edge off, but really, I wonder how much.
1:11:43Nine hours is long enough that everybody, the press and everybody else, gets a chance to get into a hotel room and take a look at the press because they won't miss me coming in at all.
1:12:10You're, you're probably right.
1:12:14Midnight makes sense.
1:12:16Midnight Divine makes sense.
1:12:18Yeah.
1:12:19You really should.
1:12:20I just think too that the idea that you shouldn't, that we ought to stop stealing.
1:12:24You really ought to.
1:12:30rest for a little on the way back.
1:12:32What we can do, if we decide on this, we can, because the only thing we've said up to this point, no departure time, no arrival time, nothing, but it's generally included that you would return directly from, you know, it doesn't say anything about, through Anchorage.
1:12:49Yeah.
1:12:51No one's even thought about, well, will he sleep there or won't he sleep there?
1:12:55If we decide to do this, the way to cut away that other problem we've talked about, we can just begin to say, well, if they're going to do the press and come back to the average, stop their arrest or, you know, overnight stop.
1:13:08So it catches back up.
1:13:10It's an overnight refueling.
1:13:11It's an overnight refuel there.
1:13:14Well, you're making a point about the clock, too, because we're making a point about the clock going the other way.
1:13:20You're making a point about the clock going the other way.
1:13:23So he gets in here early evening, and let's not settle this now.
1:13:29Let me talk to Dwight, because there may be some more that we don't know about Shanghai and Anchorage and all that that may... What do you mean?
1:13:36Well, there may be some reason that we could make a very good case for staying in Shanghai.
1:13:44I think though that it would take some of the edge off of flying directly back.
1:13:58I think it would be the rest.
1:14:08I really do.
1:14:11I think we need to break that syndrome right there.
1:14:16Rather than taking that emergency flight, I've done it too often, you know.
1:14:24It's just a terrible, terrible dream.
1:14:25Well, I agree.
1:14:26You get a nice sleep, then you get on the plane, you've got seven hours flight, you've got an airplane coming back after 15 hours.
1:14:31You know, all of a sudden, you still feel long.
1:14:37You know, it depends.
1:14:38It's not like the sleep you get on an airplane with that engine going all the way.
1:14:42It's not like the sleep you get on a plane.
1:14:46See, one thing that I, when I was talking about the drama and so forth, and the TV, I wasn't factoring in the midnight 9 o'clock as a natural thing to do.
1:14:56If you have to be lucky, you get your time stopped at midnight.
1:15:00It's a natural thing.
1:15:01It's a natural thing.
1:15:05So we just get off the plane, breathe the wind, and go to bed.
1:15:09The problem there, of course, is that midnight in Alaska is only five in the afternoon or something in Shanghai.
1:15:20So under body clock, you're not reading well.
1:15:23None of that works.
1:15:24But what you say, you're unwind.
1:15:25You're just bugging along.
1:15:27It's very cold out there like that.
1:15:33What'd you say?
1:15:33You didn't act.
1:15:34Matter of fact, say it.
1:15:35You have the nice color she's bought.
1:15:40The person who's made this flight many times from Asia to Washington.
1:15:47And he's off from Duke, Tokyo, to New York.
1:15:49And he has known, and he's advised on it again.
1:15:54all will break with at least one night of sleep on the way, and go across the international date line.
1:16:01He feels that he can do it, but that after an exhausting, very tiring trip, that it just adds an extra
1:16:20with attention, you know, and so forth.
1:16:27And that's true of children, also.
1:16:30I recommend that they shop in California and Hawaii, if they can afford the time, but always make one stop, always make one stop, usually Hawaii.
1:16:38Going backwards, which most of them prefer, because it's almost far and longer.
1:16:47I'll tell you the typical reason that a blogger would stand up.
1:16:50But I have spent time, I have stopped at Anchorage before, and spent the night, just stopped, spent the night to stretch away and come home.
1:17:08But it just happens, it comes to you.
1:18:47She has the soil conservation values today.
1:18:50One other great picture on the front page of the Miami Herald is Julie.
1:18:58She's really got the people.
1:19:01Trisha's got the majesty and Julie's got the common touch.
1:19:20As I said, I think that after the drama of seeing China for days and days and days and days, the history of the course of the nation is not going to be something I'll want to do.
1:19:32And of course, the other objections that I have not had anything to say.
1:19:36See, everything is going to be said in that meeting.
1:19:40Everything.
1:19:41And to give a kind of a personal wrap-up on your arrival, that's the reason why I think
1:19:52without saying anything, is to come back and do it again.
1:19:55Do it when they're interested in it and they've seen it.
1:19:57And then they want to get the training out of their minds for a little while.
1:20:01And then let the commentators and a lot of other older out-and-out trainers, they will.
1:20:05That's why I don't want to bring any specials at this point.
1:20:09Later on, two weeks after we return, maybe we can hold them up again.
1:20:12Maybe we want to specialize them.
1:20:13Maybe we won't.
1:20:16We'll see.
1:20:16They're bound to run.
1:20:16They're bound to run, essentially.
1:20:19That's why I told them it was essential to just stay in Alaska because you can prepare, you know.
1:20:26Well, you can prepare anyway.
1:20:27You can stay in Shanghai and you've still got 15 hours on the airplane.
1:20:29You can sleep a while with that.
1:20:31You can work that out in a minute.
1:20:33All right.
1:20:34Preparation is no problem.
1:20:38So you got it?
1:20:38No problem.
1:20:38You don't have it that way, do you?
1:20:40The two problems of that are, one is just to find a way to get in and arrive at the right time of day.
1:20:46We're just raising a question, Dwight, on return.
1:20:51The President makes the point that we're wasting one of the best shots we've got on arrival by the noon at Andrews, so we should come in at 9 o'clock Monday night in prime time.
1:21:03If it would be live, Ron says that there's no question it would be very live if we did.
1:21:07That gives him a chance to make his report to the people on his arrival when they're interested, rather than waiting two or three days or a week and trying to go up with a report that he doesn't have any report to make.
1:21:17So to get to the logistic question, assuming that Cesar will arrive here at 9 o'clock Washington time, and to do a statement then, how do we arrange it so we do it?
1:21:29Two ways.
1:21:30But I think you see another one.
1:21:31But one is to stay in Shanghai on the last day.
1:21:36Instead of leaving at 10 o'clock in the morning, wait and leave at 7 o'clock at night, you have to come in nine hours later.
1:21:43It means you leave Shanghai nine hours later would be one way to do it.
1:21:48Which is a problem because your arrival in Anchorage becomes a daytime arrival.
1:21:55Now, the other alternative is to leave Hentai on schedule, arrive in Anchorage on schedule, go to the
1:22:09quarters at Elmendorf, 10 to 9.
1:22:13You arrive at midnight, which is a logical time to go get off the plane and go to bed.
1:22:17And then at 9 o'clock in the morning, you get up and leave Anchorage at 9 and arrive here at 9.
1:22:26I'd be impressed by that, because everybody's going to be so tired anyway.
1:22:30Let's look at the logistics.
1:22:32Is there anything that we don't know that makes a difference?
1:22:35Like, is there a reason to stay in Shanghai for that day?
1:22:38Well, it depends on where they're going to communicate.
1:22:40You could conceivably have engine on that instead.
1:22:49But there's no way we can control that, is there?
1:22:52We don't even discuss it with them.
1:22:56We wrote it right at this point.
1:22:57We don't know.
1:22:59That's true of anyone.
1:23:00Communicate as it is now.
1:23:02If you do the communicate out of Shanghai, you do it at 9 o'clock Eastern time.
1:23:06It's perfect.
1:23:08If you stayed over 9 hours, you'd be doing it at 2 in the morning, which would be ridiculous.
1:23:13So that doesn't help us either.
1:23:15So we're really better to force them to let us out of Shanghai.
1:23:19at the scheduled time, because 10 in the morning Shanghai is 9 in the evening our time.
1:23:24And that's our final departure from China, and that's a damn good live television show, too.
1:23:29But is it more important to have the ceremony here or the communique?
1:23:32Which is most important to you?
1:23:34Here in the cave or the arrival here?
1:23:37The arrival here.
1:23:38Because the communique you can't avoid anyway.
1:23:42It doesn't have any negative things.
1:23:45Do it when it's early in the morning here.
1:23:47And then play on to the arrival here, then... Oh, you're saying Monday night?
1:23:50See, we can't control them.
1:23:54Well, that's what Henry wants to do.
1:23:57And there's a lot of argument in favor of doing it, communicating Thursday and Peking.
1:24:05Yeah, Friday and Peking.
1:24:11Before you leave for Hangzhou and Shanghai, then you're sort of finished with your business.
1:24:20It adds a little to Steve not putting it out and then holding until that last meeting in Schenkenheim.
1:24:27Is it kind of the last meeting with Joel Meyer?
1:24:30Yes.
1:24:30Yes, it was the afternoon.
1:24:31Sunday afternoon.
1:24:34I don't think Sunday afternoon.
1:24:40But if there is a negative thing at all in the communique, or negative connotations that you would want to avoid, then by putting it out at 2 in the afternoon, which would be 3 in the morning here,
1:24:53and then departing a little later on, you would avoid that strong impression, which would be made by the communique here.
1:25:04I think you're right in most cases.
1:25:07The communique out of China, no matter what time you release it, it's all a matter of, you know, it's going to play very, very heavily.
1:25:17He mentioned earlier that it was negative in terms of the...
1:25:23Controversy.
1:25:24Taiwan, for example, which is a problem.
1:25:30On the other hand, I think the positive features of it, like I said, Taiwan can be watched by many China watchers, but the positive features are going to be quite overriding.
1:25:46You're not going to want to get off the plane at Elmendorf.
1:25:50You're going to go to bed, I don't think.
1:25:52I think that's going to, when that point in time comes, you're going to be going at such a speed that it's going to be very hard for you to sleep when you do get in there and try to go to bed.
1:26:03And then delaying your getting there, you're going to be even tireder once you arrive at Andrews.
1:26:11Am I reading that right?
1:26:13Well, that's all true, but the worst time to arrive here is in the middle of the day.
1:26:18Well, the other point, if you happen to just kill yourself on Halloween, because it's like going to the State of the Union at the end of the day, which we do deliberately, but we don't want to be on the night of Halloween.
1:26:28So you come here and you have fire service, and you have a lot of news, and that's not the way to do it.
1:26:36None of this, I agree.
1:26:38I should have thought this earlier, because I had a note to go through mentioning a month or three weeks ago, but the whole plan should have been arrived here at night.
1:26:48Well, it wasn't.
1:26:50It was all purposely moved back on the basis of not having gotten off with 15 hours of airplane flying, and you didn't want to go out and make your flight.
1:27:02But the arrival, even if I didn't do anything, should be at night, I think.
1:27:07What is it?
1:27:07Do you mind flying longer?
1:27:09Would you rather fly longer than to get off the plane and try Hawaii?
1:27:14Well, just loop past the islands and island outback.
1:27:17I'd go to Wake or something and review a lair.
1:27:21It seems like all the other flights have come back from Anchorage.
1:27:26And there are really only two choices to meet the deadline of 9 o'clock.
1:27:32Stay in Shanghai and fly direct or leave on schedule overnight in Anchorage.
1:27:38You can have the best of both worlds on this.
1:27:49Do the communique in the morning in Shanghai at 10 o'clock, which is 9 o'clock Eastern Time.
1:27:57Then you go back to your guest house.
1:28:01You delay until in the afternoon.
1:28:04We just tell them that we would like to stay on.
1:28:08In fact, we may even be able to come up with some little event or something that you could go see.
1:28:16There's a bird's eye view of Shanghai that's fantastic, I think.
1:28:23Which is not a spectacular thing.
1:28:26Which is not on your schedule.
1:28:28The only thing you do publicly in Shanghai is you visit an industrial exhibition that they have there.
1:28:33Mrs. Dixon, while you're meeting with Cho in the afternoon, visits the children's house.
1:28:38But we can do it at the cultural camps tonight.
1:28:45I think they would understand perfectly what, and they would immediately read what you were trying to do.
1:28:51They would know that you wanted to get in here at prime time.
1:28:54No, that's bad.
1:28:56Well, but no, I think they understand that kind of stuff.
1:28:59I don't think that's our question.
1:29:00That's going to be as obvious to them.
1:29:02But our question is how many we're going to leave in.
1:29:04No, they've got to delay.
1:29:05They were going to delay anyway to final communicate and so forth.
1:29:08So what we are doing is actually helping our press corps by giving them a chance to write their final stories and get everything in order there before we depart.
1:29:18Yeah, that's true.
1:29:19So we could substantiate that.
1:29:22Maybe you can have the community and get that all done.
1:29:25Then you have a final session with Joe to just kind of talk it all over before you go.
1:29:37This is on the option of flying directly back?
1:29:43Yeah.
1:29:44Then you have to go into Anchorage at 9 o'clock.
1:29:50Well, we still need to...
1:29:52Remember, we're not working against anything here.
1:29:56Because even the... No one knows.
1:30:03What time the chill in my meeting is, including us.
1:30:06So that's what I mean.
1:30:07Well, we're on three.
1:30:09So in fact, could we delay it or anything like that?
1:30:16Actually, you could say that we could work it so that in the afternoon, we could go to the children's ballast with Mrs. Nixon.
1:30:24He would show the next county, would show the next morning, and then do the communique a little bit later, like at 11, which would be 10 o'clock at night here, which would even be better here after television across the country.
1:30:34Then let them press file, and then leave in the afternoon.
1:30:49It's very late.
1:30:50You got to leave at 7 o'clock at night.
1:30:56Or you could take a little longer off the ground.
1:30:59You could have.
1:31:00How long do you plan to be on the ground now?
1:31:08Forty-five minutes.
1:31:10We did it very, very easy to leave in two hours.
1:31:13You could make that two hours.
1:31:14We get to pick up a slack.
1:31:15There it is.
1:31:17Well, on the basis of leaving at 5 o'clock.
1:31:20Which is, leaving at 7 looks kind of odd.
1:31:23Why don't you stay?
1:31:24You could leave at 5, and then make the fueling stop for two hours.
1:31:28I'd leave ahead of dinner, because if you caught me, I'd be in a little mood.
1:31:46To do that, leave it closed at Elm Grove, but that would give you the chance, present chance, to get off and close the house, get a shower, you know, just kind of get fresh stuff.
1:32:07He's right now, he's in the middle of his night.
1:32:11I still think that that's...
1:32:24That you can gain nothing by having a big event.
1:32:27And if there's a little stir about why don't we get to see him, I don't think there's going to be that much.
1:32:31They had their chance when we were there with the Japanese attraction.
1:32:34Oh, I could explode the goddamn thing.
1:32:38That's what we have right now.
1:32:40Oh, yeah, but all the rest of them are there.
1:32:44Oh, my shit.
1:32:45Well, sleeping made us a good deal in Alaska, anyway, because whatever time of the day it is, we just went to bed.
1:32:52I should have spent time someplace, but... Well, then you don't get off the plane and go shower, obviously, on that one, but... Yeah, we did.
1:33:00Okay, yeah, we did.
1:33:03Well, I think if you get off, you're in real trouble.
1:33:07Now, this is closed.
1:33:08Once he's on the plane, we say he's not getting off, but the base is closed.
1:33:12Once you get there, if you're awake and you feel like it, and want to jump in the car, run over to the general's house to get a shower, or something, come back on board, you can do it.
1:33:22Well, if you close the base, it makes no help about that.
1:33:24By the base, though, you're sure going to have a lot of service in there, aren't you?
1:33:27No, sir.
1:33:28We can tell them not to come out.
1:33:30You will at the end of the road.
1:33:31You cannot be that.
1:33:32Thank you, sir.
1:33:36You keep the townspeople.
1:33:38There's no problem.
1:33:39You could do it.
1:33:40There's no question about it.
1:33:41Close the base.
1:33:44But you're going to upset people.
1:33:46You're going to have the wires down there just to cover the fact that the plane landed and it was going to take off and that the president didn't get off and he was asleep.
1:33:55That's what you say.
1:33:57That's the public mind.
1:33:59Maybe Secretary Henry or somebody can go wave out the door so they got something.
1:34:04That's something that don't increase the presence.
1:34:13But I would much prefer seeing us do that than to have you leave at the time we're scheduled to leave Shanghai presently and then try to get off the plane and sleep or go into some general's house and try to sleep and then go back out and try to get on the plane.
1:34:28Once you take off, we ought to just try as much as possible to keep going deadlocked.
1:34:33Well, because it's a long span anyway.
1:34:36To put more time in there is going to be, in my mind, not as easy.
1:34:42He would not be as good on the television in terms of as he should be.
1:34:49You just increase that whole transition.
1:34:52You're at the opposite of that.
1:34:57Well, I find you really don't sleep well for a day or two.
1:35:00Ron...
1:35:01I know that General Hagan and Henry would agree on the car act, but if you're going to stop, stop for a day, or a day and a half or something, which I know is out of the question, but...
1:35:14It's out of the country, it's shocking.
1:35:18It's out of the country.
1:35:35We have a lot of drama going for you too if we make this change.
1:35:59From the time that people get up in the morning here, you'll be just about ready to land in Alaska.
1:36:03And then all day long, they're going to be hearing on the radio, you know, the president's flying across, you know, he's on his way back to Washington and so forth.
1:36:11And then by the time they all get home for dinner and into their evening television, here you are.
1:36:17I mean, it's been kind of a buildup that whole day.
1:36:19As far as you're going to have that, regardless of what process you follow, take it back.
1:36:29The other way that most of the delivery would have been during the time that they were all asleep, they would not have heard.
1:36:43So the way this has to work out, basically, is to, if we want to get prime time, we have to find a way to... At 5 o'clock in the afternoon, well, there's something to be said for that.
1:36:54Maybe I should...
1:36:57see a little more of that town.
1:36:59It's the greatest city in the world, biggest city in the world.
1:37:04And there are any number of things that I'm sure that they've done.
1:37:08It's really fantastic.
1:37:10It's just all changes.
1:37:12I mean, they talk about Peking.
1:37:14All Chinese, the great cities, China.
1:37:18I mean, Chinese in Singapore, the gardens over in China is the one they all pine for.
1:37:25It's a great, great, great province.
1:37:30Do you have any, I don't know where they're parking around, but a lot of sightseeing is a good thing on the last day.
1:37:37Do the sightseeing on Sunday and meet with Joe on Monday if we can do it.
1:37:41That would be
1:37:44It would be better to meet with Joe at the end.
1:37:46It would be sexier at the end.
1:37:47Do you think there's something to know?
1:37:52I'll have a formal meeting on Sunday.
1:37:54Well, not really.
1:37:58Is there a problem with the Chinese in staying in Shanghai through that day?
1:38:04I don't know what Henry would say.
1:38:06I would say no.
1:38:07I would say it's not something that cannot be worked out.
1:38:10But there would be a problem in asking and seeking a meeting with Joe on Monday instead of Sunday.
1:38:19or in addition to what his plans are.
1:38:22I think you got a good point that we ought to do the, when we go to Shanghai, we ought to really take Sunday, look around and then on Monday, we'll hit the, the,
1:38:41Communicate.
1:38:42Communicate.
1:38:43Get out.
1:38:44Communicate.
1:38:45No.
1:38:46Communicate.
1:38:46How many people you're screwing with this or the news magazines and they don't matter?
1:38:51See what I mean?
1:38:51You're not really screwing that.
1:38:55It doesn't make any difference.
1:38:57They're past that line anyway.
1:38:59What, with a communicate?
1:39:03Yeah.
1:39:03You're not even showing that?
1:39:04No, we do it Monday as well.
1:39:06Sunday.
1:39:08Sunday.
1:39:08And they make their bed in there.
1:39:09Don't look for it.
1:39:12But I mean, that's not an answer.
1:39:14That's not an answer.
1:39:16I don't never do any of this.
1:39:17The very technical point would be that the Sunday afternoon meeting is preferable to Joe from the standpoint that, as you've probably heard, he works mainly in the afternoon, so what we're asking him to do is reverse how he would normally work, but yet he'd have to go to the airport for the communique.
1:39:36It wasn't Monday afternoon.
1:39:37Meet Monday afternoon.
1:39:43after the communique?
1:39:45No.
1:39:45The communique is not something that I particularly care about as a primetime view.
1:39:52It's a news story, right?
1:40:03I mean, it's very, very complicated.
1:40:09So just let it be a news story with the commentators going on.
1:40:14Or, as a matter of fact, they'll probably do it on prime time.
1:40:17Cronkite will go on, on a special, communicate.
1:40:20That's probably what the 9 o'clock would say.
1:40:22I want to know, discuss this story, communicate.
1:40:24That's the way they'll do it.
1:40:25They won't do it in the news.
1:40:30In relation to communicating, the time factor, it doesn't matter because if you release it at 2 a.m. in the morning, it's going to give as much play throughout that day and that night as it would if you didn't release it.
1:40:44If you and Joe go out and jointly announce a communicator or something, they'll probably put it on live television.
1:40:50at 2 a.m. in the morning.
1:40:51I've let people here get up at 2 a.m. like they did the morning.
1:40:53And they're just going to run and run?
1:40:55Yes.
1:40:56As you say, you don't have a special one, but using anything that would help.
1:41:03When you meet with Mal, which will probably be in the afternoon, they'll shoot that back here live, and then they'll tape it and work on it over here, but they'll just feed it back directly.
1:41:17What's the status of the
1:41:20ground station in Shanghai.
1:41:23According to a few minutes ago, they said that there would be no television, live television, out of Shanghai.
1:41:28Well, it takes care of that anyway.
1:41:30It doesn't mean live television doesn't communicate with anyone.
1:41:32Right, they take the videotape to use it to begin.
1:41:35But now we can, that could be argument, but that's where it stands as of right now.
1:41:40They have the capability to do it live, but the networks don't want it to be live.
1:41:44That would work out of Shanghai.
1:41:46Technically, it's capable to do it without the ground station.
1:41:50They were supposed to have capability on the 25th of doing it live, but the ground station capability is there, but the other capability is not readily put in place there.
1:42:03The telecine machines, the energy machines.
1:42:06So that's where they feel that apparently, based upon what you're saying from the conversation, it'd be better to fly an hour up to Peking and do it all out of there.
1:42:20just call me.
1:42:22Well, one thing, before they announce the attorney general, I thought you might want to meet with the client leads.
1:42:30We've talked about, see if they're going to announce that at the same time.
1:42:34If you want to get into some of those things first, and then some of those things right after.
1:44:36Don't raise a problem.
1:44:43I think that the coming back all the way makes sense.
1:44:46I'll reverse that.
1:44:49Second, I think we ought to try to make it mid-prime time.
1:44:53Don't you agree with me on that?
1:44:54Absolutely.
1:44:55I mean, it's just a waste to come in at 12 in the middle of the night.
1:44:58Can't the police look?
1:44:59You wasted 400 people, that's all.
1:45:04We work back from a 9 o'clock arrival at Andrews to a departure that said,
1:45:11some solid-time element, or something like a 5 o'clock departure out of Shanghai, and figure out what to do on Monday in Shanghai, then go to town.
1:45:23And try and make the fuel stop, or do the meeting in the community on Monday if possible, and then do Sunday for...
1:45:29But later, if we conveniently leave Shanghai, the better.
1:45:31Because those who want to contrive something about 9 o'clock would contrive it off of the fuel stop.
1:45:37Yeah.
1:45:38If I could just leave later.
1:45:39I don't think there will be any problems staying in Shanghai.
1:45:41It's 6 o'clock in the hill.
1:45:43If we get out at 6, it would be pretty good, Sheriff, to stay down there.
1:45:48You haven't announced that we're going to be there.
1:45:50Well, we have a few hundred.
1:45:51I guess they don't want us to see something.
1:45:53They'll find something for us to see.
1:46:01OK.
1:46:02They don't know when we're leaving anyway, so we .
1:46:08We're still .
1:46:11Well, that's .
1:46:12OK.
1:46:17Yes, sir.
1:46:21Or what, just one thing?
1:46:23If it doesn't work, isn't the next, if you can't work that, isn't the next best thing Tuesday over at 3-D?
1:46:34I think so.
1:46:39And that's, we know we can do that.
1:46:42So there's no problem.
1:46:43It doesn't work.
1:46:44I think we just, we're just trying to take a little edge off and sleep at night.
1:46:48So it's better to take that edge off and get here at nine than it is to come running through and arrive at nine.
1:47:04Just one quick thing over on this subject.
1:47:06You're meeting at 9 o'clock on Thursday with the leaders.
1:47:11No, I haven't announced it.
1:47:14I'm just thinking about the technical side.
1:47:16Because the networks will either go on at 9, 30, or 10.
1:47:21They'll go on at any time.
1:47:23Well, you don't want to miss the walking out of the cabinet room and so forth and out to the chalkboard.
1:47:29What time is it?
1:47:3110 for the mangroves or 10 for the south ground?
1:47:3410 for the south ground.
1:47:36So ideally, we just delay that.
1:47:37We'll make it about 10, 10 or 10, 15 for the south ground.
1:47:41See, we don't have any problem at 10.
1:47:43Any problem when we get in there.
1:47:45So I just open every 10 o'clock.
1:47:48Start covering then.
1:47:53Well, it doesn't matter what time.
1:47:56If they went on for about 10 minutes ahead of time, they should have the crowd and the gathering and so forth.
1:48:02Well, a certain number will come out there at 10 after 10 at 7 o'clock.
1:48:07That's fine.
1:48:08That's good.
1:48:08Yeah, 10 after 10.
1:48:11You'll come out.
1:48:12We'll go on at 10 o'clock.
1:48:13Good.
1:48:13That's all I need.
1:48:22Mr. President, he said, I suck at piano.
1:48:24No wonder he said to you, you know, at Rose's, you know, he was a pianist.
1:48:32He said, you know, I want to do something else.
1:48:34He said, very good.
1:48:35He said, very good.
1:48:38Now, my letter, again, is not to be released, however.
1:48:44It is not to be released.
1:48:44The typewriter letter is not to be released.
1:48:47The typewriter letter is not to be released.
1:48:49The typewriter letter is personal.
1:48:53It is personal.
1:48:55But his letter, if he wants, is not to be released.
1:49:03We'll just release him out of the way.
1:49:04That's what I have.
1:49:05Can you do that at 11?
1:49:06We're going to do that at 11.
1:49:08It's a question of whether you want to catch one of these before.
1:49:15Just to be sure you're on it.
1:49:19He might announce it.
1:49:20He's not going to go out and say anything.
1:49:23On these, that's our plan to come over afterwards.
1:49:26He's going to have to come at 4 o'clock before it's announced.
1:49:31you know, download them to the job.
1:49:35You don't need to, from a public viewpoint, the only point would be if you want to before you send it down to the Hill.
1:49:41Okay, fine.
1:49:41Publicly, we don't want you to, we're not doing anything about you seeing them.
1:49:53Mitchell wants you to keep the whole thing as low key as he can.
1:50:11Well, this is a lot of time, I guess, on what seems to be rather unimportant details.
1:50:19It's like overriding what I thought earlier, because I knew that, I knew that arrival, I said, I remember that one of ours was, was, first I know that arrival's going to do me no good.
1:50:31Second.
1:50:33Not if you want to cover the whole story.
1:50:35If you get locked, if you get on the line, there's no question of lying.
1:50:41Especially if we say you're going to make a mistake.
1:50:49They have to do it live.
1:50:50They've carried it all the rest of their lives.
1:50:52They can't end the story on a covered basis.
1:51:05the Democratic, Congress, and Senator meeting that decision was a trip.
1:51:10It was.
1:51:11I have some problems with communicating with those people.
1:51:16Because the enormous weight of this trip was trying to do is to wash out the argument, the basing comments, and have them talk about what happened in Japan and France.
1:51:29Wow, that is just...
1:51:32You come to the, you know, I was, I took it back to your report with Gallop, but I, that's rather interesting that he would, I can't believe that Gallop would tell, that's the point, Rumsfeld, that he would hold a poll.
1:51:44I never, because Gallop has always been, you know, said, well, Jesus Christ, I called him because I see him.
1:51:49Well, he wouldn't just start a poll, but he would just not release it on the eve of your departure, is the point.
1:51:54He would wait and release it next month after you got back.
1:51:57I suppose.
1:51:58But I don't think he's done that before.
1:52:02which indicates something about his idea of the event.
1:52:07But it's a feeling you've got all across the board, and I think very strongly so.
1:52:14Well, we got the message from the North Vietnamese, and it's the mildest one we've ever had.
1:52:22I had sent them a message on the 26th to keep them from publishing the record, in which we just said,
1:52:33We've published the record that the United States signed as it said in its message of November 19th.
1:52:40Go ahead.
1:52:45We haven't had an arrival.
1:52:45So we can talk about that briefly.
1:52:46If you want to turn off.
1:52:47Okay.
1:52:47President, I look back here.
1:52:48Return here, yeah.
1:52:48The news is not when we should arrive because he's now thinking that his arrival statement at the airport may be his report to the country.
1:52:51He may not want to say any more than that.
1:52:53That means he may not want two or three days later to declare with some names.
1:53:12and therefore he wants to arrive here when he's covered on television, which would be at 9 o'clock tonight instead of 11.
1:53:19Which means we'd have to leave 10 in the evening.
1:53:22Which means you'd have to leave 5 or 6 instead of 10 in the morning.
1:53:25And so what you do is just put over some other additional activity on Monday and check back, which is what they wanted us to do to begin with.
1:53:39You know, 5 or 6 in the evening here,
1:53:43I mean, nine in the evening here, it's 11 in the morning.
1:53:45Dead one there, I mean, dead one.
1:53:47Well, that means we'll have all of us tonight sleep in the bed.
1:53:53Well, then, I mean, you will sleep in the bed.
1:53:58Listen, I've got to go to the office.
1:54:00We've got to lose the night's sleep in the night.
1:54:03It doesn't change that, you see.
1:54:07The only difference it makes is because of the fact that the flight is 17 hours and I'm losing my sleep either way.
1:54:14Well, unless it's out in the morning, in which case...
1:54:18But that isn't my main point.
1:54:19My main worry is to give the Chinese the sense that we're using them to stage a television thing here.
1:54:25Absolutely.
1:54:28After the schedule has all been set now, I mean, they will have... You can't just schedule another activity there.
1:54:38I think, I mean, use it.
1:54:42When the point is we can do anything there if we ask and they'll do it.
1:54:49But it will cause us, not it, maybe not based, not fundamentally, you can't tell which.
1:54:55Well, there, this is a point, now wait a minute, Bob, this is a point, though, that I haven't, that I didn't realize.
1:55:01You mean, have the Chinese, do they, have they been over 8,000 in line?
1:55:04Oh, sure.
1:55:05No, 10 in line.
1:55:0610 in line.
1:55:07They've been told that.
1:55:08Sure, the schedule...
1:55:10Well, it's not that they've been told that.
1:55:13That's the schedule that's been worked out between us and the Chinese.
1:55:17It's for a 10 a.m. departure.
1:55:18I think it's wrong to change that.
1:55:20I don't have any damn reason to change it.
1:55:27Except one dollar.
1:55:27It was one of the things they raised earlier, yeah.
1:55:30There's a reason for saying that we're not- Well, we haven't, though.
1:55:33We can't at this late date.
1:55:34If we'd had it on the advance party earlier, months ago, that's why- Then would it be no- Well, I mean, sure it's a problem now.
1:55:40That would be the only other question.
1:55:43Because they, the original thing, when you came back, they wanted them to stay to do the two days in Shanghai.
1:55:50Well, but you see we said no and every time they change something they let us know you're changing the agreed procedure.
1:55:59I'm sure we had said from the beginning we want to leave at six in the evening or nine in the evening or whatever.
1:56:06that would have presented no problem.
1:56:08Bob, that's a really good question.
1:56:09I still think, is that also sleeping in Anchorage?
1:56:13I think that's the right way to do it.
1:56:15I think, I think that's very positive.
1:56:16I don't care whether it's Romney or maybe that would be interpreted by the American public as meaning to return to America.
1:56:25Everybody knows that this is a vigilant trip, and they're going to sleep one night.
1:56:29I don't think you've got any problem with stopping in Anchorage and spending the night.
1:56:33I think...
1:56:34You'll be sort of screwed up in terms of schedule.
1:56:38I don't know how the time works out.
1:56:40You arrive in Anchorage at midnight.
1:56:42Stay there nine hours.
1:56:43Go to bed at midnight and leave at nine in the morning.
1:56:50Anchorage time.
1:56:52It must be hard to go to sleep at midnight Anchorage time, because that's only five in the afternoon Shanghai time.
1:56:59We'll all be exhausted.
1:57:00If you're going to be tired, you'll have had eight hours in an airplane, and I would think you'd be able to go to bed.
1:57:04I think this is far better.
1:57:07I think the nine o'clock arrival time here is bad, but I'm very reluctant to go for that.
1:57:15The reason we need it at nine o'clock here is it comes in parity with other reasons.
1:57:19Otherwise, Frank, you're going to know.
1:57:25Oh, I think I like the night arrival better.
1:57:28I have no problem.
1:57:54We, uh, I've been thinking about, you know, this idea of making a report when I return on consideration of that.
1:58:08And this is that I'll get the most of the way, whether I do have the leaders down here.
1:58:11It's not going to happen for him or him, but consideration of that.
1:58:18It's my belief that after a massive television coverage for a week over there, and communication,
1:58:25But then, when we return, then three days later, we'll go on national primetime television to report on something and cover it.
1:58:37It's going to be a goddamn hard thing for us physically to get ready.
1:58:42And mentally, from a standpoint of content, to say anything.
1:58:46Is it going to be all that?
1:58:47No.
1:58:47Well, from the audience viewpoint, is there anything out there?
1:58:49Is there anything more to say?
1:58:50I haven't any surprises.
1:58:51I haven't any news.
1:58:52I have no news.
1:58:53That's it.
1:58:54Good.
1:58:54Well, good.
1:58:55What the hell am I going to find news to say at that point?
1:58:57I won't say anything kind of untrue.
1:59:00So what I thought was to take the cream off, skim it off, right at that point, at 9 o'clock whenever I think that I come off and I can speak ten minutes,
1:59:13And, you know, as I ride, I'll figure it out all well in advance.
1:59:24I think, Mr. President,
1:59:26that's going to be interpreted all over the place and knock them, and they'll say, well, it was kind of a anti-climax.
1:59:31You know, they're going to be full of China in a while.
1:59:36Then let others start to click into China's stuff.
1:59:38I think that's absolutely right.
1:59:40I like it very much.
1:59:41I think the nine o'clock arrival here, I like very much.
1:59:45Adding on activities in Shanghai, when they have drilled everybody, I think they're wrong.
1:59:51No doubt, no doubt.
1:59:53So I think what we do, despite Zeta's concern, is to say it isn't going to take that much blue longer to stay and spend the night there.
2:00:02Incidentally, I think we ought to...
2:00:05The night there, anyway, is 6 o'clock in the morning here.
2:00:08Let me ask, though, how much can we hard-nose the clothes?
2:00:14I don't think you can really hard-nose them.
2:00:16Sure, you can hard-nose the arrival very easily, because it's at midnight, no one's going to want to come anyway.
2:00:21The next day, a lot of people will be out and out of your way for your departure.
2:00:24The people are out with you.
2:00:26On departure, you can get away without saying anything.
2:00:28On arrival, you almost have to say something.
2:00:30The departure is only two o'clock in the afternoon here.
2:00:34And we carry it.
2:00:35It'll be a squib in the news.
2:00:36And they said, I will be in Washington.
2:00:37And I'll maybe stay there.
2:00:38And I go to Lippler.
2:00:39And I return.
2:00:41And I arrive in Washington.
2:00:42And you are as an officer.
2:00:45I just want to thank my good friends at Anchorage for coming.
2:00:48I think it builds up the arrival.
2:00:50That builds it up.
2:00:50And I'll be in Washington tonight.
2:00:52And David, I've seen you so much.
2:00:54Everyone will know you've been at Anchorage.
2:00:55I could not miss this opportunity.
2:00:57This was unplanned.
2:00:58This was only a refueling stop.
2:00:59But I appreciate the fact that so many thousands of our good friends from Alaska came out to say goodbye and say hello.
2:01:07We thank you very, very much.
2:01:10We've come here, and my first stop after being general was in Anchorage, and a little of that crap.
2:01:17And off we go.
2:01:19You could talk about this at Starry Pace, or this is no wonder.
2:01:22Can't we make history?
2:01:23We can make history.
2:01:24I can't.
2:01:24The last time I was in the first office in Anchorage, the first meeting between them.
2:01:29I think that's absolutely right.
2:01:32I like it very much.
2:01:33I think the 9 o'clock arrival here I like very much.
2:01:58adding on activities in Shanghai when they have drilled everything.
2:02:02I think you're wrong.
2:02:04No doubt, no doubt.
2:02:06So I think what we do, despite Ziggler's concern, is to say it isn't going to take that much room off of them to stay and spend the night there.
2:02:14So incidentally, I think we ought to...
2:02:18The night there, anyway, at 6 o'clock in the morning, yeah.
2:02:21That'd be packed over.
2:02:23How much can we harden those, the clothes?
2:02:26I don't think you can really harden those.
2:02:28Well, you can harden those very easily, because it's at midnight, no one's going to want to come anyway.
2:02:34The next day, a lot of people will be out and out of the way for your departure.
2:02:37The people are out that you... On departure, you can get away without saying anything.
2:02:41On arrival, you almost have to say something.
2:02:43And the departure is only two o'clock in the afternoon here.
2:02:47And we carry it.
2:02:47It'll be a swim in the news.
2:02:49And they said, I will be in Washington.
2:02:50And I'll maybe stay there.
2:02:51And I go to that with them.
2:02:52And I return.
2:02:53And I arrive in Washington.
2:02:55And you are as an officer.
2:02:58I just want to thank you, my good friends in Anchorage, for coming on the call.
2:03:01I think it builds up the arrival.
2:03:02That builds it up.
2:03:03And I'll be in Washington tonight.
2:03:05David, I've seen you so much, everyone will know you've had a good period.
2:03:09I could not miss this opportunity.
2:03:11This was unplanned.
2:03:11This was only a refueling stop.
2:03:14But I appreciate the fact that so many thousands of our good friends from Alaska came out to say goodbye and say hello.
2:03:20We thank you very, very much.
2:03:23We'd come here, and my first stop after being jumped was in Anchorage, and a little of that crap.
2:03:31And off we go.
2:03:32You could talk about this at start and base, where this is no wonder.
2:03:35Can't we make history?
2:03:36We make history.
2:03:37Again, the last time we were first with the plan, the first stop was in Anchorage, the first meeting we were doing.
2:03:41And then whack, whack, on the plane.
2:03:44We built it.
2:03:45That's only evening news.
2:03:46Make out about a minute and a half.
2:03:48That takes the, you get back in the airplane, and fills up your life in seven hours, and I make a six to seven to ten minutes, probably six to seven minutes, and we'll kind of make a class of generalities, which will finish the trip, as far as I know.
2:04:05And then I will do the impression on it.
2:04:0910 days later, perhaps, after I'd had a chance to go to Florida, get totally arrested and turned around and so forth, and get acquainted with the domestic issues again.
2:04:20Now, the problem we have there is going to the country.
2:04:23I think rather than press for you, you might go to the country the following week and do some gag accidents.
2:04:29And I said, I remember one thing I told you was common.
2:04:31He said, that wasn't the thing.
2:04:34That would be a nice way to catch us.
2:04:36Rather than a nuisance, since I want to come and do something like that.
2:04:39He makes you up on that, which is why we would have such a terrible time dragging you down.
2:04:42It turns out it's not Abilene.
2:04:44It's San Angelo College.
2:04:48Not Abilene Christian.
2:04:50No, he doesn't mention San Angelo or Abilene.
2:04:53San Angelo.
2:04:55Well, he still thinks that I did.
2:04:57Huh?
2:04:58Yeah.
2:04:59Good.
2:05:01Well, I like the 9 o'clock arrival, Mr. President.
2:05:05My only hesitation was... And you'd also like the idea of not coming back and having to prepare a report to the nation.
2:05:12I'd like that, too, because I... Nobody's going to be ready to do that.
2:05:15Although I don't know what you would say to the... What we can do then is meet with the leaders.
2:05:19That'll be a report to the nation.
2:05:21We'll meet with the leaders.
2:05:23We have to prepare...
2:05:24Absolutely.
2:05:25...and jackets are on hold for that.
2:05:27But that's it.
2:05:29You can do that.
2:05:29That's up to you either that night or Tuesday morning.
2:05:32You can't do it.
2:05:33I wouldn't do it that night.
2:05:34No, I wouldn't do it this morning.
2:05:35I wouldn't do it this morning.
2:05:36And it's much better.
2:05:36I'd say I'd leave it on the computers and I'd do it now.
2:05:40And you're not...
2:05:40I'd be very busy Tuesday to get that done.
2:05:44And maybe get that done on Wednesday before.
2:05:47I might go back there.
2:05:48I might go Wednesday before.
2:05:49And then say that I've got to track down here Tuesday and Wednesday.
2:05:52I may say I didn't leave.
2:05:54Uh...
2:05:56Yeah, I would say spend two days here.
2:05:58Yeah.
2:05:58Tuesday and Wednesday should be scheduled here for the jackass things we have to do.
2:06:04I frankly meet with the, with the bipartisan thing.
2:06:08And I think that gets away from meeting with our own leaders.
2:06:10There isn't about that thing because they're not ready.
2:06:12But we ought to have a cap team just because get a captain meeting.
2:06:15Right.
2:06:15That's good.
2:06:16Get that done.
2:06:16And put them on different days this time.
2:06:19Leaders on Tuesday and captain on Wednesday.
2:06:21And we won't be ready for an NFC meeting that morning last time.
2:06:26Good morning, do you want anything from South Asia?
2:06:29I wouldn't have to rush myself, Mr. President.
2:06:31South Asia is going to be a bitch.
2:06:32How about we eat your meeting breakfast?
2:06:35Do you want to wait till tomorrow morning?
2:06:38I don't think so.
2:06:39I don't want to go back and talk to labor.
2:06:41They're all over.
2:06:42You've got to say one of the things you need to get scared to the shit out of.
2:06:45I've been reading the news on it.
2:06:48Colson last night told me.
2:06:49Have you heard?
2:06:50Yeah, I've seen him.
2:06:51I've seen him.
2:06:52He does a blast on the Democrats.
2:06:53George, you know, when he talked to me, he said, give me the casualty figures and some other stuff because I can make some use out of it.
2:06:58And he got down there and he said the president's doing a lot of that.
2:07:02And he said, I will not vote for him.
2:07:05He said, that's unlikely that I'll vote for Richard Nixon, but I will never vote for a man who calls for surrender in Vietnam.
2:07:16And he said, they're not consciously aiding the enemy, but they're aiding him.
2:07:21Yeah, he picked up on it again.
2:07:22He says, they're not consciously aiding the enemy, but they are aiding the enemy.
2:07:27Well, you know, somebody said, if they're unconsciously engaging in that, it makes it worse.
2:07:32It may appear to be dumb.
2:07:33And so what you're saying about, you know, the people that are nitpicking, what they say, the vice president said the same thing.
2:07:39He said, well, I wouldn't say consciously.
2:07:41I wouldn't go that far.
2:07:42If you're going to back up, you should back off of aging and vetting, not off of consciousness.
2:07:48Let them debate whether or not they're going to know what the debate is now about how they can.
2:07:52That's a nice debate about it.
2:07:54Incidentally, Mr. President, I spoke about it this morning.
2:07:58If this schedule holds, Lee Doctore is going to come back to Paris about 10 days after you've been in Beijing.
2:08:04Everybody will figure you and Ernst are in Beijing.
2:08:07Doesn't make any difference.
2:08:09It's going to look like a direct result of the Beijing trip.
2:08:13Because Lee Doctore coming back will be public knowledge.
2:08:17Oh yeah, that's going to be public knowledge.
2:08:19You won't know why.
2:08:22But, uh...
2:08:26So they'll clearly think I'm getting a lot of press queries already, and now I can see them.
2:08:33Kravtsov called this model, but Kravtsov called because they put out a story that they did it all with China, and it was on me, and we proposed a secret emissary.
2:08:46And he called about it, and I said it.
2:08:48Boy, that's ridiculous.
2:08:50I mean, are you reading this paper or not?
2:08:51Well, I bet I'll put it in.
2:08:53There was some great talk of Pat Jones.
2:08:55I bet I'll put it in.
2:08:56Oh, great.
2:08:59Isn't that the silliest guy that they are?
2:09:01No, that's not true.
2:09:02I just read somewhere that...
2:09:07The president's going to be accompanied by certain people, plus the two men who put the intellectual pattern together, Mr. Marshall Green and Alfred E.S.
2:09:16Jenkins.
2:09:16Oh, shit.
2:09:17May I say anything about your...
2:09:20I don't have to.
2:09:24I just wanted to...
2:09:33Why not just not say anything?
2:09:34I think not.
2:09:35And if I were to go, you would just say, well, he just decided he was going to make his friends, so I wouldn't let him.
2:09:43Well, they...
2:09:44So I first knocked down that story.
2:09:46They said, you have... What these bastards don't know is you set up the Warsaw meeting through a secret channel, through Yaya.
2:09:52That's the first thing.
2:09:53Secondly, they said we told them it was our...
2:09:59It's a really vicious little story.
2:10:01We proposed sending a senior emissary, and before they could return it fly, we went into Cambodia and they knocked it off.
2:10:10Well, it ended.
2:10:12I gave that away to Tim, but I mean, it's not what it is.
2:10:16We don't go through anything when you are there.
2:10:18I said, uh, they...
2:10:23Frankly, we have no information where the lead actor is at, but let me just give you my own personal opinion.
2:10:29Those Vietnamese will not settle this in Peking.
2:10:34The place to watch is where the lead actor shows up some other place.
2:10:39I do not, even if he should turn out to be in Peking, he will be there for Chinese business, not for American business, because that's not, I mean, I'm on safe ground.
2:10:48I know
2:10:50Well, the story tells us that he's there now and on the way there today.
2:10:54Well, but there's no, we don't know.
2:10:56But if he goes to Peking, I mean, they'll all put it together in their mind.
2:11:05He goes to Peking before we go, we go to Peking.
2:11:09And you'll get credit as one of the results of the trip just when the experts start picking away at the communique and say, well, there isn't all that much in there.
2:11:18The leader shows up in Paris.
2:11:31And that should happen around the 12th to the 15th.
2:11:36And then they'll go crazy.
2:11:40They don't have to find out that I'm going.
2:11:47They will assume now whether they can find me or not.
2:11:50I think we should take the position that we do not comment on private talks.
2:11:55Oh, absolutely.
2:11:57If we announce it, they'll start escalating it.
2:12:01and keep making new and new proposals.
2:12:03Oh, we're just going to stay there because I have nothing to report on.
2:12:06I think it's better than comment on private talks.
2:12:09I just think Zegers should do a fine.
2:12:11I mean, I know that everybody is afraid to say it, and Rogers will never say no comment.
2:12:18I have no comment on that.
2:12:19It's fine.
2:12:21Just say no.
2:12:23The president's for years who said it.
2:12:25What the hell is the reason why you can't say it?
2:12:27So with no comment, I have no comment on that.
2:12:32I have nothing to report on that.
2:12:34There is a White House press secretary who refuses to comment on the report.
2:12:40I just have no comment on that.
2:12:43The point is, it'll be a bad next day, but he has no evidence.
2:12:45When he even goes beyond that and says, well, I wouldn't speculate or I don't want to speculate, it immediately makes the story one way that just that I have no comment.
2:12:54Now, it's still the best thing to say.
2:12:55The bad thing about getting more people to say, I have no comment.
2:12:59They've got to say, what's he think about the vice president?
2:13:02I have no comment.
2:13:03What do you think about what Holton said?
2:13:04I have no comment.
2:13:06No comment.
2:13:08I think it's better to be a little bit more.
2:13:10Let's go out to the arrival ceremony for a minute so we can do it rationally because it's going to be hard to do once we get on the road.
2:13:18When you come back, you're doing this for now prime time.
2:13:23The normal pattern is the Vice President welcomes you home.
2:13:25He pretty much has to do that.
2:13:28I think somebody, we ought to set up some way of telling the Vice President, this time let's not take any chances.
2:13:34He always does a superb job.
2:13:36But let's not take any chances on what he says.
2:13:39We ought to get in his text.
2:13:40Absolutely.
2:13:42So that he doesn't, you know, start summarizing what you accomplished or something.
2:13:46Yes, yes.
2:13:47So he doesn't start getting into tight lines.
2:13:51But somebody ought to get a line down as to what we want the people to say.
2:13:55Well, I think you should just speak for one minute.
2:13:58He doesn't have...
2:14:00Even on a personal basis, Mr. President, this is, you know, one of the great moments in the history of this nation.
2:14:04As you return from your historic journey for peace, we Americans are... Well, that's why I'm probably prepared to be prepared, may I suggest, by a speech director.
2:14:14But it ought to be...
2:14:15I agree.
2:14:16It should have no substance at all.
2:14:17No substance, right.
2:14:21People don't want to see him one minute or, you know, just very little for him.
2:14:29And it should only be the Vice President welcomes you for very less than a minute and then you step up and give your remarks and that's it.
2:14:39If this is the best thing.
2:14:41Oh, no question.
2:14:42I think it's the best thing.
2:14:44If you wait until Wednesday or Thursday, you'll only be repeating the communique.
2:14:49Anything other than the communique they'll have seen on television.
2:14:53You'll be more physically active when you're going on TV when you arrive than you will be today.
2:15:00Another thing, too, is that Ziegler used to make a report to the nation and so forth.
2:15:04Now, we've covered that.
2:15:05In a case, he's for it.
2:15:07He makes little remarks when he returns, and he's talking to the leaders.
2:15:10That's a report to the nation.
2:15:12See, all this, they get a lot of pressure to report to the nation because it's been conventional.
2:15:15There isn't going to be a report to the nation.
2:15:18You report it to the nation, see?
2:15:21So I just wanted to have a list.
2:15:24Go ahead with your, let me just read you what I had sent them in.
2:15:33Oh yeah, he told me last night and I haven't told him, so I never talked to him.
2:15:40You know, it was good to tell him.
2:15:42I told Colson not to do all this, as I called him.
2:15:46You know, to Bob.
2:15:51You know, he's an electric guy who lives, you know, he's never gotten that retail sale figure.
2:15:56I didn't like your hair, et cetera, et cetera.
2:15:59And I think, you know, as I always said, I said, God damn it, don't you worry about these days.
2:16:03I don't know if he does, but I can hear him.
2:16:06I said, you've got to figure this out.
2:16:08He's a little brave.
2:16:12Thank you, though.
2:16:16But I think we're fortunate to have a good number come out this close to the end of January.
2:16:21That's Thursday morning, I'm telling you.
2:16:24So if they don't mail it today, papers will have it this morning.
2:16:27At least Thursday morning.
2:16:28These Thursday morning papers.
2:16:32Fine.
2:16:34Okay.
2:16:34Let me, uh...
2:16:35Okay.
2:16:41I'm not going to read you what we sent to them, so that you get a sense of how soft they replied.
2:16:47I guess that before you get into that, Bob was telling me that Mallory was going to see the press at 3.30 today.
2:16:54How did he behave?
2:16:55Oh, yeah.
2:16:56He's smart enough to know.
2:16:58Well, of course, he's the director of information for that.
2:17:02He did not hurt the trip.
2:17:04Oh, he did.
2:17:05Yeah.
2:17:05Oh, he'll be no trouble.
2:17:06As a matter of fact, I think...
2:17:07The other friend was quite...
2:17:08Very nice...
2:17:10I thought it was a nice touch for us to invite this man over.
2:17:14This guy who knew Mao when he was 23 years old.
2:17:17He, Mao, was trying to get Mao when he was 33.
2:17:20You know, of course, Mao wrote a lot about Mao.
2:17:23That is kind of D.C. press.
2:17:24I thought it was going to be a big manifestation of the times, which I like.
2:17:29You know what?
2:17:30Blue State told me.
2:17:32He said that it was Frank Page, when I mentioned Malraux in this office press conference, Frank Page and the Ferris wheelers loved Malraux.
2:17:44Always have.
2:17:44And Luce said that he was so, I realized, he said he is such a towering figure that even, particularly among young people, he is still quite a following.
2:17:53I see that that's because of this Malraux.
2:17:56and that he, Lou Steele, has written two or three monographs on his works, on art and everything.
2:18:02Apparently, that guy has a reputation far beyond what most Americans would realize.
2:18:09Oh, he is the leading French literary figure and a hero, you know.
2:18:13He fought in the Civil War, the Maquis, et cetera.
2:18:16No question.
2:18:18But I think it was a good thing to do.
2:18:27had the purpose of preventing it from publishing directly.
2:18:31So I have said it is with no reason or alternative that the United States is revealing publicly the secret negotiations with the North Vietnamese.
2:18:38This was on January 26th.
2:18:39And then we summed up all the proposals we had made.
2:18:43And then at the end of it we said the United States side continues to seek to bring a rapid end to the war on the basis just for all parties.
2:18:51It repeats its willingness to consider alternative ideas.
2:18:55It stands behind everything that it has said in
2:18:57private discussions.
2:18:59The United States is ready to negotiate on the basis of the proposal outlined by the President in his speech and is prepared to send Dr. Kissinger to Paris whenever Special Advisor Lee Duk-to can visit.
2:19:12To this, they replied, Father, the North Vietnamese side has always thought that the keeping secret of the substance of the negotiations or the publishing of the report made no difference and had no importance.
2:19:26The American side has often proposed that these private meetings be kept confidential.
2:19:31Replying to this request, the North Vietnamese side agreed that both sides would not publish the substance of the private meeting.
2:19:38Nevertheless, the American side did not hold to its commitment.
2:19:42On the 26th of January 1972, the American side again proposed a private meeting between Dr. Kismetra, Special Advisor of EDACTO, and Minister Kwan Kwee in order to demonstrate
2:19:55It's serious attitude in the search for a peaceful solution for the Vietnamese problem.
2:20:01The DRV side informs the American side that Special Advisor Lee, Dr. Goh, and Minister Quang Huy are disposed to meet Dr. Kitts on March 15, 1972.
2:20:12If this date is not convenient, they're prepared to meet on any date that the American side will decide, giving us the exact time and date of their convenience.
2:20:25I mean, this, uh, I mean, in fact, hey, that makes no difference if you publish this.
2:20:32Well, that makes it orderly to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, uh, to Walters that if, if we schedule it at a time, they will have it.
2:20:44Well, at the usual time, they're assuming he will stay for that.
2:20:53I mean, this is a fact.
2:20:54You'd have to know all the previous ones.
2:20:58They never told us we could give them a date at our convenience or a time at our convenience.
2:21:04They always made us submit a date, then they'd check it, take a week or two before they'd come back.
2:21:12And this is three weeks after we kicked them in the teeth.
2:21:15And we didn't propose a meeting.
2:21:17We just said we are ready to meet whenever they want to.
2:21:27No, your answer is correct.
2:21:31But it doesn't matter even if they call me a... Supposing they call us in to say you're a bunch of blood-sucking sons of bitches.
2:21:41To what?
2:21:42Muscular.
2:21:44Muskie won't know what they're doing.
2:21:46Oh, no, no.
2:21:46We'll blame it on Archie.
2:21:47We'll blame it on Muskie.
2:21:48These negotiations are not right now.
2:21:51I mean, they tried again, and they...
2:21:56They'll say something to indicate...
2:21:57The thing that I want you to particularly watch for in these next talks is any swift where they indicate that there is opposition to the war in the United States.
2:22:07They always put something in there.
2:22:09Oh, yeah.
2:22:10You understand how important that is to us?
2:22:13Well, I've got a lot of stuff in the notes already.
2:22:16Good.
2:22:17But if we could have some now, at this point, after our January 25th meeting, indicating that the American people do not support the President in this, by God, we've got one hell of a thing to hang on to.
2:22:30Mr. President, I think if we get only one meeting out of it, and that's inconceivable.
2:22:36You get more than one.
2:22:37There'll be three meetings at least.
2:22:40And as long as Li Dachau is in Paris, the Democrats cannot do a goddamn thing.
2:22:46Because if they attack us, we blame them for wrecking the talks.
2:22:51If they keep quiet, well, then we have peace at home.
2:22:57Either way, it hurts the North Vietnamese.
2:23:04Because if we get till the end of April, then we have until the middle of June
2:23:15Because that Moscow summit, Mr. President, it won't have the same drama as China.
2:23:22It is less of a historical but more of a political event.
2:23:24Well, it's enormous.
2:23:25Enormous.
2:23:27So, uh...
2:23:28But if you can't get all of them, it's gonna be so boring.
2:23:35That's what I mean.
2:23:42I mean, you talk about the Cotswain and the Alderman, all the rectures, and the end of the war.
2:23:47This is something that, if that was inevitable, if it was inevitable that, you know, the Cotswain and the end of the war should happen, the Alderman boy should sit down and yank her arm about a few moments later.
2:23:58This means a whole new direction in U.S.-Soviet relations.
2:24:02And the China meeting means a whole new direction in U.S.-China relations.
2:24:08Well, this is, that's what's important about this.
2:24:10I mean that, you know what Malcolm said last night, it's worth dating the truth.
2:24:15You know, and he's right.
2:24:17It's worth dating the truth.
2:24:19Mr. President, nothing, and you see it now on television.
2:24:22Barbara Walters was saying goodbye this morning.
2:24:25I mean, this is... Teddy White called me last night in tears.
2:24:30He said, I want you to...
2:24:32I know, I told him that.
2:24:38He was literally in tears.
2:24:39He said, let the president know this is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me.
2:24:47And therefore, that China trip, Mr. President, it's just... And it's going to build more and more and more
2:24:55Now, there's one thing I wanted to say in connection with the conversation last night.
2:25:00It's hard to understand these Chinese leaders because they are different from the others.
2:25:06They are more comparable, in my judgment, to early Calvinists
2:25:1216th century religious fanatics.
2:25:14They are not like the communists in Moscow.
2:25:19They are capable of great brutality.
2:25:23But what other country would call a revolution in which millions get killed, a cultural revolution?
2:25:31Their brutality is Chinese, not communist.
2:25:35It is Chinese, and their whole structure.
2:25:37And in dealing with them,
2:25:40they lay enormous threats.
2:25:42You'd have to read the verbatim record on principle.
2:25:45Now, it's important to be tough with them.
2:25:48That is, when Joe attacks, one has to hold firm, because otherwise he'll follow.
2:25:52But when Breslin attacks, one has to slap him brutally.
2:25:56When Joe attacks, one has to be...
2:25:59firm in substance, but conciliatory in form, because they never, they will always have superb manners.
2:26:06I mean, your behavior, your normal behavior is ideal for this, as I told you right after, right after I came back.
2:26:13But it's important for them, they don't expect us to agree with them.
2:26:18It's important, however, that we show we understand their point of view, not that we share it.
2:26:24And that we have our point of view.
2:26:27Now, they do not like one thing that was said yesterday.
2:26:32They do not like to be told that peace is desirable.
2:26:35To them, peace is not an objective.
2:26:37Justice is an objective.
2:26:39Yeah, I understand.
2:26:41And therefore, the general words like cooperation, compromise is a bad word for them.
2:26:48The way they can handle it is to say, we are going towards our goals, you go towards yours.
2:26:54We are walking side by side for this stretch of the road that they can handle easily.
2:27:01But cooperation in the abstract is of no interest to them.
2:27:06Peace in the abstract is of no interest to them.
2:27:10Totally wrong.
2:27:12These are people who think in conflict situations.
2:27:15On the other hand, what we can make and say to them,
2:27:19is we've got two years while the Soviets are developing and we shouldn't waste them in sterile recrimination.
2:27:25That they'll understand.
2:27:29That's a realistic assessment.
2:27:33We shouldn't spend these next two years.
2:27:35We have the problem that the Soviets are building up their strategic forces.
2:27:38You have the problem that the Soviets are surrounding you.
2:27:42We want you to survive not because we like you,
2:27:45but because we believe it is essential in our interests.
2:27:50That sort of language shall understand very well.
2:27:54But it must, there must be the slightest hint of what they will construe as condescension.
2:28:00The way you talk to Korchescu, for example, I mean, you handle the communists better, but they are different phenomena from the Russians.
2:28:09The Russians are brutal bureaucrats.
2:28:12These are fanatical monks.
2:28:15In 25 years, as a historian, I'd have to say, we'll probably be on the side of the Russians against them.
2:28:21And the game we have to play now is like the British in the 19th century, to shift our way to one side or the other.
2:28:28Whoever is weaker, we always have to be on the weaker side, not on the stronger side, because once the stronger dominates, it may become too strong for us.
2:28:39And the British did it quite unemotionally, and we have to do it unemotionally.
2:28:44And now tomorrow we're going to announce some Russian easing of export licenses.
2:28:51We are going to announce $400 million worth of export licenses to Russia, which we've been holding.
2:28:58And I'm going to try to work out... That will be announced tomorrow.
2:29:10I beg your pardon?
2:29:14Sorry, in fact, do you have your, what you have for the opening statements and so forth?
2:29:24I've just gone over them again.
2:29:27I can have them for you later this afternoon.
2:29:28Then don't drop them.
2:29:30No, no, I've got them.
2:29:32I've practically got them.
2:29:34I just wanted to do them one more time.
2:29:35You were probably a lot of...
2:29:40Now, I have worked with my staff on an analysis of Mao's stuff, which I've put in your book on Mao, which you might take a look at.
2:29:50Book on Mao?
2:29:52I've got a book on Mao in true and live for you.
2:29:55Oh, is that a big case?
2:29:59It's fancy what this is.
2:30:01That's business communication.
2:30:08All right, I go.
2:30:35Well, yes, it is in the case.
2:30:36Butterfield has it.
2:30:37There were a couple of things that probably Butterfield or somebody said.
2:30:46But on some of your memorandums of conversations, my originals, which I've marked, I don't have.
2:30:55You know what I mean?
2:30:56I would like to see that because it will refresh my mind.
2:31:00Yeah, I have the book of the positions.
2:31:03I'll give that back to you.
2:31:04You've underlined things.
2:31:08Yeah, the book of the positions, or...
2:31:12But I mean, no, when you, you know... That doesn't bother me so much.
2:31:18The positions before you left, that one I don't want to see.
2:31:22No, but...
2:31:23When your conversations, the memorandum of your conversations, after you return both times,
2:31:30Isn't that in this book?
2:31:33It is, but it doesn't have mine.
2:31:35Oh, you're marking my originals.
2:31:36I want to see my originals.
2:31:38He's got those colored papers on.
2:31:40Yeah.
2:31:42We should ask him if you marked them.
2:31:47Well, anything that I have marked, I want to see, because the markings have some special significance to my memory.
2:31:53So anything that I have marked are China papers, except not the original papers.
2:32:00I know, I remember the position papers, that's all, that's just it.
2:32:03But on the Memcons, there may be some things there that I could want to take a look at.
2:32:09Now you, why don't you stay then just there, because I need to go to Camp David's afternoon.
2:32:14I can have it by 3.30, 4 o'clock.
2:32:23Well, if you can't have it then, there's no reason to have it then.
2:32:27No use to rush it that much.
2:32:31Then get it to me by, say, 7 o'clock tonight.
2:32:37I'll work on other things today.
2:32:39Or 8 o'clock tonight, have it set up on the helicopter.
2:32:43Okay.
2:32:44So we say that.
2:32:44That's what I'll do.
2:32:46Then I'll take a look at it and be ready to talk about it on the plane.
2:32:51I think if you've read this, then you might...
2:33:04I have another separate book on the communique, but that's a little technical and you may not want to bother with it.
2:33:10And then you might read Maximo Cho.
2:33:12Yes.
2:33:15The lesson she's setting up for me.
2:33:17No, the lesson.
2:33:17What have I had?
2:33:18A big reading.
2:33:19The lesson.
2:33:19I already had it.
2:33:20Yes, you have.
2:33:21Good.
2:33:22I'll read that.
2:33:22You know, I'm quite aware of the...
2:33:28I think I'm aware of the great difference between the Chinese and the Russians.
2:33:35I mean, they are very principled people.
2:33:38I mean, you've talked to me so much about your mother.
2:33:41I mean, they're in a completely different framework, but they are people of strong convictions who do have a great sense of honor in their framework, which is totally different from ours.
2:33:53So I have no question... We are also...
2:33:56Absolutely.
2:33:57And they'll respect that.
2:33:59We don't have to accept that.
2:34:02But we must...
2:34:03The thing we have to avoid is to...
2:34:05is to start giving them the impression that we want shoddy little deals with them.
2:34:10If you say, here are my principles, they're different from yours, but we can work out something practical because we have some parallel interests, they'll give you no trouble.
2:34:20And there'll be no recrimination.
2:34:22It would be a mistake to pretend that you agree with them.
2:34:31Don't sucker around.
2:34:33And also, you don't come around and say, well, look, we're not very far apart and all that.
2:34:38That's another thing which we try to do around, you know, and others are always trying to reassure our people that there are no differences, paper over differences.
2:34:50You cannot do that.
2:34:52You cannot do that.
2:34:53That's a lawyer's credit.
2:34:56I don't believe in playing that, and I'm thinking in Chinese, I can say and see that that won't work.
2:35:01That doesn't mean you're belittling them about the differences which you've got on your side.
2:35:05You can afford to be non-deleterate about the differences.
2:35:07Now, you will have to expect, Mr. President, that very early, somebody is going to make a tough speech at their position, and I would make a very polite and tough reply.
2:35:22At any rate, I wouldn't yield.
2:35:31That is going to happen.
2:35:32It may happen at the first plenary session.
2:35:35They have to get their position on the record.
2:35:37My experience has been that after they've made that speech, after one replies, then they go back to treatment.
2:35:44What about the climate recession?
2:35:48I hope that Joe is aware of the fact that we prefer to have no business down there except to divide up the work.
2:35:54That's exactly right.
2:35:55Well, he will make a statement, isn't it?
2:35:57No way of avoiding that.
2:35:58And you can make a statement.
2:36:00And then you propose how to divide up the work in that zone.
2:36:39Mr. President, I have no question that that's enough.
2:37:03be recorded as one of U.S. tremendous achievements and that U.S. can now be held accountable.
2:37:10We've almost made it.
2:37:12Because I don't see as a practical matter now how the Congress, how they can synchronize the congressional and public demonstration aspect.
2:37:26They can't do it while you're in China.
2:37:28They've got to give you about 10 days after you get back from China before they attack you.
2:37:34Then, March 25th, but Lee D'Arco will be here, will be in Paris, and while he's in Paris, I cannot imagine that a congressional, that a presidential candidate, that they'll be passing resolutions through the Congress.
2:37:53Then, starting early May, we'll be in a run-up period to Moscow.
2:37:59Early May will become apparent if we have the soldiers.
2:38:03yeah but april my what i would propose to do as you said yesterday is to set the meeting for the 20th then the next meeting say about april 10th uh they won't uh we can probably complete us but the demonstrators by themselves don't hurt if the congress doesn't
2:38:32The demonstrators actually held.
2:38:33I think we're in rather good shape.
2:38:40I think until the middle of June, I do not see how the opposition can mount a Vietnam attack.
2:38:43Middle of June, what the hell are they going to mount?
2:38:45They're going to mount a revolution.
2:38:46People are thinking it's worse, so we've got a little residual force there.
2:38:57But they're still bombing, right?
2:39:00Right.
2:39:00But I think you have made progress towards the settlement.
2:39:02I'm sorry, Senator.
2:39:05All right.
2:39:06This is just... You're going to look too good.
2:39:09That 53%, Mr. President, I don't give a damn what it does to you.
2:39:12It's much better.
2:39:13I mean, you compare it to your super-presidency again, but the point is it's a hell of a lot different from Johnson.
2:39:20Exactly.
2:39:21And that's what the Vietnamese are going to watch.
2:39:25Also, the fact that...
2:39:29And I don't know anything about public opinion, but it should do a little more in March.
2:39:37Well, we don't know.
2:39:39It could.
2:39:40Well, it went up even to 55, 56 in March.
2:39:41Yeah.
2:39:42We don't have, of course, to depend on others to do other news, but the China thing is handled well.
2:39:53The one quencher, of course, the potential quencher we have is to have the well-intentioned guys that are lying to Bob and the others to go roaring off on them.
2:40:07Well, we traded Taiwan.
2:40:09But I don't know.
2:40:10I can't believe that that communication can reach so many churches.
2:40:13No.
2:40:13What do you think on that?
2:40:18They're going to say, it depends.
2:40:20You know, I was wondering if we couldn't do something with the Taiwanese and tell them that they're to say that.
2:40:25I disagree.
2:40:25We've got to get everybody on board and communicate at the beginning.
2:40:28But when Marshall Berlinger goes down there, somebody... Taiwan has no option.
2:40:38If they, I mean, if they said, well, we betrayed them and the hell with the Americans, would it work that way?
2:40:44100%.
2:40:44Yeah.
2:40:44But let's think of a PR on that, how we handle the problem.
2:40:50I know what we have to do with it.
2:40:59But otherwise...
2:41:05But otherwise, the communiqué, I think, is extraordinarily good.
2:41:16And when I read it, I think it's more than any of them thought it would be.
2:41:21You know, particularly if you could, I'm sure you can already be sure that the press
2:41:32This is not what will come out of this meeting.
2:41:37I keep putting that out.
2:41:39I keep putting that out all the time.
2:41:40I'm putting it out.
2:41:41But the whole tone of the communique... You mean he'll look better than what the press expects?
2:41:47Exactly.
2:41:48But the whole tone is very positive.
2:41:55And we have solved the problem.
2:41:56We'll have a strongly friendly statement about Japan and Korea in there.
2:42:01on our part, which will help us greatly in those two countries.
2:42:05And I don't think the one paragraph that gives us a little problem is it's Taiwan and you may have to take it up with Mao.
2:42:32But he has an opportunity to talk to you.
2:42:37So maybe I have to take it up with Joe.
2:42:38I have a question.
2:42:39You shouldn't do it.
2:42:40I personally feel that I should stay out of the community, right?
2:42:42You should stay out of it.
2:42:43Unless it just becomes a matter of normalcy.
2:42:48I have requested a meeting with Joe before the first plenary session.
2:42:52A secret meeting.
2:42:53They can handle that.
2:42:54No one will know this is taking place.
2:42:56Just so that he knows what he's supposed to do at the plenary session.
2:43:00I know the reason for it, incidentally, that they cannot send an emissary here because they're not wanting to have anybody here while we used to recognize Highland.
2:43:13On the other hand, the appearance of the United States sending emissaries to P.K.
2:43:26It is not a very little.
2:43:28Let me put it this way.
2:43:30The fight is, the fight begins.
2:43:33We Chinese history, of course, that has always been their attitude.
2:43:36They come to us.
2:43:37Yeah, that's what the goddamn press is saying.
2:43:39What, that we're going there?
2:43:41No, no, but I mean, that's, I've read this in some accounts.
2:43:44I didn't know that.
2:43:45No, I was thinking of myself.
2:43:49I understand the person.
2:43:51Are they already raising?
2:43:52Well, I've seen it in some accounts, but...
2:43:58Well, your point is that you've got to do what's necessary.
2:44:09Well, I think we need the semblance of active contact with them for the Russians.
2:44:14That's the answer to all.
2:44:18And for the Indians.
2:44:19I mean, as we imagine where we would be without this Chinese option, the Russians would really be putting it to us.
2:44:37I'm having lunch with Sabrina today.
2:44:39I'm just going to run over, titling him along on the Middle East.
2:44:51I've thought about it.
2:44:52Maybe we, if he can possibly spend it, we ought to send butts over there rather than Peterson.
2:45:02Tell Peterson, or tell them to let the man, Peterson, after the summit.
2:45:06Well, because as I look over the things to be negotiated, we can't make any progress without most favored nations.
2:45:16We shouldn't give the most favored nations until after the summit.
2:45:20And this would be something we are dangling in front of them.
2:45:31And since they have all gone to visit, we've had Peter in there.
2:45:34I mean, we've had Stans there.
2:45:35You might say Stans.
2:45:37Also, I still don't kind of want to, I still don't want to abuse my Bruce over there somewhere.
2:45:44And I know he keeps control, but I'm not quite sure of that.
2:45:48I know what's his, what's he doing, what are we talking about?
2:46:02He made a speech which they considered threatening in 1959 and they cut him off at the age of nine.
2:46:13In 1959 he came there and made a speech which they considered a threat.
2:46:32or which they considered condescending.
2:46:34I accept this demand.
2:46:36Do you realize, in person, why we do not talk about, you know, put the emphasis on peace and talking with that as an anti-war decision?
2:46:55We haven't put the emphasis on peace as an anti-war decision.
2:46:59Oh, God, yes, and I wouldn't hesitate saying it in a toast, which comes back to me.
2:47:05But that makes no sense.
2:47:07That is fine, coming back here.
2:47:27Also, I will see whether we can get Joe to agree to put out the communicating deacons.
2:47:34Because then they'd have every excuse to take their wraps off in Agile and Shanghai.
2:47:43Let's think about it just a little while.
2:47:45I know that has been suggested.
2:47:53I'm not sure of taking the wraps off.
2:47:54I think we could agree on the deacons.
2:48:00But what I'm concerned about is that- For two days, people can mistake without being able to talk back.
2:48:09For us, you see, when we get back and you're here, you'll be able to, they'll say, what about this or that or the other thing?
2:48:18And you'll be able to set them right, and you're gonna have to do it.
2:48:24So I mean, just the senior type of people that you normally talk to,
2:48:30But we're over there for two days.
2:48:32The people that didn't go, particularly, the nuts, made us start out a hell of a haul.
2:48:37I think there's something to be said there that's communicating that.
2:48:41But then we should do it the morning we leave out of Shanghai.
2:48:44The morning finish.
2:48:45Because that's the Sunday evening in America.
2:48:49Yeah.
2:48:55Because otherwise we'd be issuing it Sunday night, which is there, which is Sunday morning here, which doesn't do us any good.
2:49:05Well, it'll be big news whenever it's issued.
2:49:08It's more of a newspaper story with television.
2:49:13It's a news hour kind of a thing, rather than primetime.
2:49:16Well, if you think we should do it Sunday night, we can do it then.
2:49:19No, just do it when it's convenient for them.
2:49:22On this one, I don't think it is, but you can see what I mean about getting it out too early in there.
2:49:28I'm worried about that because if we get it flat, I'll...
2:49:31Maybe we shouldn't even suggest doing it.
2:49:33Also, the other problem is, if we make it, it will be read back there, and we'll have to answer to them and so forth.
2:49:41I'm inclined to think that also, you let us suppose that you did have an extremely negative reaction on Taiwan for a couple of days, or some other damn country had.
2:49:52And we've come back to sort of a little thing.
2:49:55I'd rather have as little time, I'd rather have something, I'd rather read the telephone than we can.
2:50:02The morning we leave.
2:50:04Well, then we should do it Monday morning.
2:50:07Monday morning.
2:50:09Because then there can't be any reaction, probably, before you get back.
2:50:12Well, there's 15 hours of time to do it, and that's a hell of a short time.
2:50:17I suppose that one thing I know that you could do,
2:50:22Well, if they accept the draft, which I said they were saying, then we are in good shape.
2:50:33I mean, then we can crow.
2:50:46That's what you said.
2:50:48I don't think they'll accept it.
2:50:50On the other hand, they may come down from where they are.
2:50:54They will certainly come down from where they are.
2:50:57And if everything goes well, Mr. Breslin, I will be true as the authority.
2:51:00But if you do well with Mom, as I know you will, I mean, you've never met a great man whom you haven't impressed.
2:51:08And that was before you had power.
2:51:09I mean...
2:51:11De Gaulle had no reason to flatter you in 1963.
2:51:14There was no prospect of you getting into office that anyone could discover.
2:51:22Art now had no reason to be impressed by you other than what you are.
2:51:30And...
2:51:38So I...
2:51:38I mean...
2:51:41Joe did say to me that the President and Mao can do many things that you, that he and I couldn't do.
2:51:47Yes, he did say that Mao was smart.
2:51:49He was fortunate.
2:51:49He said, you can be sure that, he said Mao, he said earlier, he said Mao, that the target was him.
2:51:59He said he will not say, you know, that he will talk to you.
2:52:09And he said that
2:52:12And, uh, what anyone else stated, uh, Mao did sort of the same thing.
2:52:31Mao was... he was very... he had the tendency to express very serious views in a semi-humorous way.
2:52:35I don't know whether you've read his conversation with Haile Selassie.
2:52:43He's had a lot of my advisors tell me that the President makes me a devil.
2:52:50Why am I seeing this devil?
2:52:54But it made it quick.
2:52:55I can't quite put it.
2:52:57He did it in a way that he gave me.
2:52:59You have the copies of Memories of Time, study of Memorandums on China, and I have Mark.
2:53:08I want those copies of anything.
2:53:13Okay.
2:53:14What I'm suggesting is that you've got to look through the file and see any memorandum that he has sent me on China.
2:53:20Other than me.
2:53:21Before he went, I don't want to see any book.
2:53:24But like he said, I may have marked some.
2:53:27I didn't mark others.
2:53:29But I want to see marked things in my...
2:53:33There's a background book from the state that you might want to look at.
2:53:42Depositions are useless.
2:54:00Dispositions are trivial, but there's a background book.
2:54:03I'll send it up with you if you want to do something extra.
2:54:08It's worth reading.
2:54:13Gives you a lot of legal, if you have an hour, just to read through it.
2:54:22I wouldn't put a lot of my intellectual capital on it.
2:54:27What do you mean, legal?
2:54:28Legal what?
2:54:28Well, it gives you the legal background of the Korean situation and that sort of stuff.
2:54:34But you don't have to get into it.
2:54:37It gives you a lot of detail about exchanges, but I don't think you have to know that.
2:54:42Well, I'll send it to you so that if you ask...
2:54:53Henry, my recollection is that when Eisenhower took this trip, he didn't take Dulles.
2:55:00He didn't.
2:55:00He didn't always take Dulles.
2:55:03No, sir.
2:55:04Dulles was, you know, too busy.
2:55:07But my point is that I don't believe we should have a situation where the Secretary of State travels every time we go.
2:55:15It's just a total... You can't have two VIPs on any trip.
2:55:18It's a rule we always have in politics, you know.
2:55:21You never have two people now.
2:55:23I just don't know how we got trapped into this.
2:55:27But, you know, we really shouldn't have Bill going on this.
2:55:29He should go separately on his own church.
2:55:33What do you think?
2:55:34What do you think, Mr. President?
2:55:35Well, it's going to be a pain in the neck.
2:55:37But I mean, not just this, but all.
2:55:39I don't think the Secretary of State needs to go alone in the goddamn church.
2:55:45I'm trying to remember.
2:55:46Particularly having in mind that we're in a very different position from a British prime minister.
2:55:52I mean, the president makes foreign policy.
2:55:55The British prime minister has a foreign minister in the cabinet system.
2:55:57We've got them in the cabinet system here as a joke.
2:56:00It doesn't mean anything.
2:56:01Well, if it's in the cabinet system, they're heads of administrative departments.
2:56:05The cabinet doesn't decide anything.
2:56:07Right.
2:56:07Well, I think... Oh, we've got the problem, I guess.
2:56:11Well, I think if you're a second term, you...
2:56:15All these relationships...
2:56:16There are not going to be any trips taken with... with captain officers at all.
2:56:20Any captain officers.
2:56:22I think... You've just got to understand... You've gotten through this first term by putting an unbelievable strain on yourself.
2:56:30It's been too much.
2:56:31And there's a lot of people who are working out for themselves and trying to keep everybody... tearing each other apart.
2:56:37You're all waiting.
2:56:40We know.
2:56:48I don't think Roosevelt had how long at Yalta or Cairo.
2:57:00Why don't you do it?
2:57:16Sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't.
2:57:22Well, that wouldn't mean I had something to say.
2:57:24Let our translator go for a moment.
2:57:35Sorry, the highlights of an honorable conversation.
2:57:38I thought you were superb in that conversation.
2:57:41I thought you were patient.
2:57:42You asked the important questions.
2:57:45But I was hoping that I could get just the highlights of what he said, and get ahead of the way we have.
2:57:51The father was just repeating what he said in the books.
2:57:54Yeah.
2:57:54He was better with you alone than he was at the dinner.
2:57:58He was all right at the dinner.
2:57:59Yeah.
2:58:03I think it's fine.
2:58:04But if we didn't get it there, it's better.
2:58:08I don't think I would like to see him there.
2:58:12The evening transfer, if you remember what he said as he was getting in the car.
2:58:17I'd like to see if you could get that for me.
2:58:25We got it.
2:58:25Well, you know, I'd like it by General Galls.
2:58:28I'm with General Galls.
2:58:28Yes.
2:58:29I think Galls would say something here, and I couldn't quite hear it.
2:58:33I'll get that.
2:58:33I'm kidding here.
2:58:34I'm kidding.
2:58:34He canceled his.
2:58:36That's what it is.
2:58:40Well, when you get back, I'm certain, I'm certain pleased with our decision.
2:58:46I will not come back and make a report to the nation, I'm told.
2:58:50And what has been the mistake?
2:58:51Mistake?
2:58:51I shouldn't have told them, actually, I've got to, we've done our job.
2:58:59I need to go into the country, and I'm just saying,
2:59:04the usual pleasantries the following week they're your problem and then the pleasantries but it's uh but i think oh you mean just traveling in the country in the united states i think that that'd be slightly i think it'd be very important no decision about that whether we get closer to it because
2:59:31We'll see how things react and how people feel.
2:59:36We want to be sure that we can have as much of an out-of-beat feeling about this as we can.
2:59:44I think it will be out-of-beat.
2:59:47If I don't see how I can help you, I mean, despite the government, besides that, there'll be people in the community who can help you as the President.
2:59:54Yeah, it's unstable.
2:59:55There'll be their hardship and any questions, their jealousies and everything.
3:00:00But you've now established your dominance of foreign policy so much that it doesn't make any difference what the state says.
3:00:09No one believes this crap they're putting out.
3:00:11You don't think they do?
3:00:12No.
3:00:12Well, that's what Ted Schultz, he doesn't believe it, but he's trying to lead us.
3:00:20He's trying to lead us.
3:00:22He always does.
3:00:24You know, it's disgraceful that anybody over there would talk to that son of a bitch, right?
3:00:31But in this country, whoever takes over state next time, they have to be told that they are only under his obedience, as they all used to say.
3:00:45Loyalty to the president.
3:00:47Let there be a good foreign policy.
3:00:49They ought to give you credit rather than take it for themselves.
3:00:52They ought to give you credit for things they did rather than try to steal it away.
3:00:58That's...
3:00:58I mean...
3:01:01Connolly does that.
3:01:02You have to say that for Connolly.
3:01:03He talks about the Nixon policy.
3:01:14Well...
3:01:17Yes, it is reassuring.
3:01:19You say that Marshall Greene is pretty thrilled about going.
3:01:23He knows.
3:01:24I mean, after all, he's an honest man.
3:01:28I know that this is the biggest experience he's ever had.
3:01:33President, what other president has had a four-year record like you under any conditions?
3:01:38And considering the obstacles you've had,
3:01:41a lousy cabinet, a divided country, a recalcitrant Congress, a hostile press, a vicious press.
3:01:52It is miraculous.
3:01:53The opening to China, you've made more progress with the Soviet Union than any other president.
3:02:04The Western alliance is in better shape.
3:02:07It's not in good shape.
3:02:09Certainly in better shape.
3:02:10It will be seen that you put relations with Japan on a new basis.
3:02:14I'm sure there's been a difficult transition.
3:02:16Speaking of the Western alliance, may I ask you, what the hell did we do about flying over to Brussels on the way back?
3:02:28I would consider going to Iran.
3:02:31I'd consider going to Iran.
3:02:33You get a tremendous reception in Iran, Mr. President.
3:02:38Well, I think maybe we could consider going to Iran.
3:02:42And if you picked a city to visit in the Soviet Union, a southern city, say Kiev.
3:02:45Sure.
3:02:46I've never been to Kiev.
3:02:48You could pick Kiev.
3:02:50From there, it's an easy hop to take Iran.
3:02:55And you could spend a day and a night.
3:02:57Well, the point is, as you know, that England apparently comes in that same time frame as you.
3:03:03But we could duck it by saying, I think for you to go...
3:03:08Well, and I don't see...
3:03:10But if you go there, you'll be giving them a report.
3:03:29Rather, rather, before I report to the American people.
3:03:32That's right, and why should I?
3:03:33On a Russian trip.
3:03:33Yeah, probably report to the people.
3:03:36Yeah, because it's a lot of technical agreements you can explain.
3:03:39That's, uh, that I understand.
3:03:39I wouldn't, I don't know, I'd take prime time.
3:03:43I might do it another time.
3:03:46But I would consider seriously saying you've promised a trip to Iran.
3:03:49If you go from Kiev or Tbilisi.
3:03:54What, Tbilisi?
3:03:55I don't know where they want to go to, George.
3:03:59Well, I can't go there alone, is there?
3:04:06I'm sure.
3:04:07I'm sure.
3:04:07I'm sure.
3:04:09I'm sure.
3:04:10I'm sure.
3:04:10I'm sure.
3:04:16Is that what he, as I told you to say last night, of course I'll see him before you go.
3:04:21You always see a senior ambassador when he leaves, but only, like we did with the Spanish island.
3:04:27It's all he wants, he wants a picture.
3:04:31I think you have, I consider Kiev, Ukraine, you'll get a great reception.
3:04:40Samarkand is a...
3:04:41I've been to Samarkand.
3:04:42I'd like to go to Kiev because I've never been there.
3:04:46No, they're not good.
3:04:47It's a big city.
3:04:48And they'll have every interest to turn them out and then I'd leave from Kiev for a day around.
3:04:53And if you arrive a day around, say, one afternoon, have dinner and spend... Well, it's really flying.
3:04:59No problem.
3:05:01Whether you want to spend two nights or one night, I mean, it's a...
3:05:08Is there any country in Europe that we want to stop?
3:05:12Just Tehran, I think.
3:05:14Well, if you stop in Europe, you'll get into the trouble of why not?
3:05:18I was thinking of trying to understand the... You know, I think Tehran, I think just one little tail and it's all right.
3:05:27Yeah, Tehran, nothing, no one expects anything to come out of Tehran.
3:05:31The Shah, if he knows that we please, he'll turn out the damnedest reception.
3:05:35Right.
3:05:37And...
3:05:38as it gets you out of the main room.
3:05:44I have decided that you really have to fight with that bullet.
3:05:49And in order to avoid that, you're going to have to stay on .
3:05:59That we ought to lay long carry on.
3:06:05It poses a great problem.
3:06:07We'll plan the rush trips so that Henry can work around the grant so that the third city might be Seattle, D.C. And the third part of Russia, and then go over to Tehran.
3:06:26When is that?
3:06:27Well, it's about that period, about the 29th.
3:06:29We'll go to Tehran on that.
3:06:32And...
3:06:34We still have the problem of being in the NATO area, and everybody's saying, why don't we stop and report it to NATO?
3:06:39I'd send Rogers to NATO.
3:06:42Which he's expecting anyway.
3:06:44I mean, I'd deal with Rogers off.
3:06:46Yeah, just like we're peeling green on this trip.
3:06:50Roger, you go to NATO.
3:06:51Because after all, I have met with the NATO heads of government, God damn it, and they would have said, thanks a lot.
3:06:59See, there's no way you can...
3:07:04The symbolism looks bad, and if you report it, there's no way you can duck a report and you'll be shooting whatever you wanted from the American people in Brussels.
3:07:15And if you see them without giving them a full accounting, they'll feel you're letting them down.
3:07:20But we may not have the timing problem.
3:07:23That's the thing we ought to determine first.
3:07:27If there's enough of a gap, maybe you can just come back from Russia without bothering to leave Iran?
3:07:34If there is, don't you think I'll be lying to Iran?
3:07:35That's a good question.
3:07:36That's not the last reason.
3:07:37We ought to tell Russia the names of the people who lied to us on the airplane, because we know the names.
3:07:44I thought we had told them, but it was obvious we hadn't, so I'm hearing no answer.
3:07:48Right.
3:07:4820 seconds to the 29th.
3:07:50Shall we agree to that?
3:07:51Yes.
3:07:51We've missed a whole week there.
3:07:53Yes, sir.
3:07:54Thank you.
3:07:56It'd be worth it.
3:07:57We arrived in Moscow on the 22nd, yeah.
3:08:00But why don't we get it?
3:08:02Isn't it, well, it's a sort of actual basis.
3:08:07Why don't you do that, Bob?
3:08:10You checked Bob and Bob said that's all right with us.
3:08:54I'm afraid you're going to be right in it.
3:08:56I think NATO starts on the 28th, isn't it?
3:08:58Yeah.
3:08:59All that.
3:09:01And then on that, you've got to wait.
3:09:04Well, we have really sort of promised it, and I just saw a cable that he wants an obit of his ballot, if you want to say, and the one in town or the one at the outskirts of town.
3:09:18I think this, that I think you ought to... That he's going to turn out at a reception for you or something?
3:09:24That I'd be able to, I just thought about this thing.
3:09:27I just feel it better with the chair around me.
3:09:30I don't know if it's him, should him be telling this chair around him or she?
3:09:39No, but to tear it off, I think nobody has to tell him because it's sad.
3:09:42No, because he raised it, whether we could, he raised it, and raised the question there, and said, no, we'll tear it off after the election.
3:09:55Mr. President, my concern about you going to NATO is... Oh, I won't do it.
3:09:59I couldn't be bothered.
3:10:01...is, A, the symbolism of going to a military alliance straight out of Moscow.
3:10:04Well, that's what I... My reason is that, basically.
3:10:07But secondly, there's no way you can go there without giving them a full briefing.
3:10:11And why would you give them a briefing before you talk to the Congress?
3:10:15No, sir.
3:10:15I'll give the Shah a briefing.
3:10:18That's true.
3:10:18That's because... Well, but the Shah... No one thinks the Shah will do it because you're a personal friend.
3:10:24But no one publicly thinks you're reporting to the Shah.
3:10:27I mean, those two are not.
3:10:31And the Shah isn't going to tell anybody what you're telling them.
3:10:35If you do report to them, it would be public.
3:10:40Oh.
3:10:40And Grasso, it's just a lousy...
3:10:42place to visit after having said that though i don't want you to argue about it it's not debatable well bob can tell him i wasn't in on the conversation yeah maybe bob then all right just say that uh
3:11:06and set the 22nd to 29th for planning purposes, and that we approve that tentatively here.
3:11:12And you, you, you talk to me to approve it.
3:11:14Dabrini calls you, and I call you and set the 22nd to the 29th.
3:11:22Just one more problem, that Dabrini does call you on such matters.
3:11:26What the hell?
3:11:26Why should you call Bill on it?
3:11:28Bill's good.
3:11:29Bill's going to fund this trip.
3:11:30It's going to be in my head.
3:11:31And if he raises that, let's do it.
3:11:34Because with all trips, we're going to fund them here.
3:11:37Yeah.
3:11:37Well, as far as the schedule is my responsibility, the White House does not.
3:11:40That's fine.
3:11:40And then the other thing is that I feel like I could say, shall I raise a freshman policy?
3:11:45I just really can't.
3:11:45I just don't want anything to get me out of the election.
3:11:50You know, I'm going to talk a lot.
3:11:57Well, you wouldn't want to go as a lame duck if you could get defeated.
3:12:03But if you could get re-elected, I think you'll want it.
3:12:08You're not going to want it that time.
3:12:10You're running around the world.
3:12:12That wasn't the time.
3:12:13That was the time if you were elected.
3:12:15If you were re-elected.
3:12:18But we want that time for it is frankly to reorganize.
3:12:21That's the time to prove it clearly.
3:12:36I think by June 73, the state shouldn't be recognizable anymore at its top echelon.
3:12:55I'll just try that.
3:12:56You can't wait for the inauguration.
3:12:59It's got to be January.
3:13:01I intend to make the change right immediately.
3:13:03Oh, no, no.
3:13:04The top man should be changed immediately.
3:13:07But then all the others...
3:13:08I think when you get back in, the heads are going to roll.
3:13:11Oh, yeah.
3:13:12That's the best...
3:13:13The most strength to do that is every day after the election.
3:13:16Your strength goes down every day after the election.
3:13:18Your strength goes down.
3:13:19Inevitably.
3:13:24Andrew Lilly didn't swing anything with the country.
3:13:27At that point, he didn't do anything.
3:13:28The longer you wait, the less you can do.
3:13:32Well, tell Bill that's it.
3:13:34I think that under the name that we ought to just get this Nagel thing and farm it.
3:13:38He should go to Nagel.
3:13:41Yeah, that's good.
3:13:42Now if Bill says, well, you can go there and then go on the NATO, he says, no, I just want to go there.
3:13:46You don't give him any reason.
3:13:47I'm not going to say, I'm going to be useful again.
3:13:49The shot is the reason not to go to NATO.
3:13:50I'm going to tell him the reason.
3:13:51No, don't go to NATO is the decision not to go to NATO.
3:13:54But I just don't feel that it's better.
3:13:57It's a good idea to go to NATO.
3:13:59I feel he should go to NATO, and I'm going to go to see shot, period.
3:14:02With or without the shot, it would be a mistake to go to NATO.
3:14:07I think we should do the shot anyway.
3:14:09I think it's a nice split with the Russian crew.
3:14:12It gives you a great crowd, an easy day.
3:14:15He's a pleasant man.
3:14:17He recognizes that part of the world.
3:14:23And it doesn't take much off when you come back.
3:14:27It's just that the press has said, why in the world is he going to be around?
3:14:31Because he has a long-standing commitment.
3:14:33I had a job, and this was the opportunity to do it on the way back from the press office.
3:14:37I was here, I committed to come in 1972, and this was the only chance that I'll have to do it.
3:14:42It makes it a very tiring return flight, but who the hell cares?
3:14:45I find it makes no difference.
3:14:48A return flight is so screwed up anyway.
3:14:52You still want to think about going to Ireland on the way over?
3:14:56I wouldn't strongly recommend that.
3:14:58With the Irish and the old ones?
3:15:00Oh.
3:15:01The old ones.
3:15:01Does that matter?
3:15:03Do you recommend some?
3:15:03Well, no.
3:15:04I recommend getting a night's sleep somewhere, Mr. President, because it's important.
3:15:07All right.
3:15:08Keep going.
3:15:08And right into your question, isn't it?
3:15:12Well, we've got to look a lot way down the road, because this whole boxy race, he gets more tall when he calls, and they're wild and vicious in the snack.
3:15:21And it's a wiry problem.
3:15:23It's a big problem in the Irish.
3:15:27But that's a sort of a sign of moral support for them, apparently.
3:15:31You could go in and see it even.
3:15:35Well, maybe we couldn't.
3:15:36There's one country you can go into without getting into the country.
3:15:40It's an eight-hour time difference between Moscow and here.
3:15:45So to arrive in a civilized town... Where would you stop on the way back?
3:15:50On the way back, you just don't worry about it.
3:15:58Let's figure that out, depending on the care.
3:16:03Well, it was an interesting evening last night, wasn't it?
3:16:06I thought it was extremely interesting, sir.
3:16:08Very, uh, very bright guy.
3:16:11Yeah.
3:16:47on the way back.
3:16:51That's a hell of a long fight on the way back.
3:17:18This is this home porting issue with Greece.
3:17:27We agreed on the concept.
3:17:31The next thing we know, Defense is making a big announcement and it sounds as if we are establishing a naval base in Greece.
3:17:47And this is just some press guidance to say this is an administrative thing.
3:17:51It's not a new naval base.
3:17:54It's just a way for us to, which it is, to get personnel over.
3:17:59What do we do when they arrive?
3:18:06Statue notes?
3:18:08Well, we have to look at the schedule.
3:18:10They arrive late afternoon or something.
3:18:12Yeah, I think it's at least the second morning.
3:18:16Yeah, and that gets us into Washington at night.
3:18:18Because you gained about eight hours.
3:18:22You'd have to leave in the afternoon to get in at night.
3:18:27Well, I think coming back from there, well, you should come back around kind of there.
3:18:31Yeah, so be it.
3:18:34First president to visit Moscow.
3:18:36So you'd come back.
3:18:38Well, you have to look, I think it's about a 16 to 18 hour flight out of there, too.
3:18:44Who is it then, Ron?
3:18:46Out of Tehran, I guess it would be 16 hours.
3:18:47See, this is 16 and a half hours to roll.
3:18:51So you've got, what the hell?
3:18:55No, it's probably no more than 13 hours.
3:19:0013, 14 hours.
3:19:00Minus 8.
3:19:05It's 3 o'clock, so you want to leave at 3 in the afternoon.
3:19:12Yeah.
3:19:12That's about right.
3:19:13That's about right.
3:19:20But going over, if you don't stop in Europe, you're going to have a tough time traveling.
3:19:27I agree.
3:19:28Because if you leave, I mean, you'd have to leave at midnight to get there in the evening.
3:19:37I mean, they'll want you to get there about 4 in the afternoon because that's when they can turn out.
3:19:40The beauty of that iron thing is you can land it, Shannon, and chop her right over to, uh, Mulcahy's Floodies.
3:19:48You get complete privacy.
3:19:50This guy will have Mulcahy.
3:19:52Or is he?
3:19:53No, hell yes.
3:19:54We'll tell Jack that it's got to be without him.
3:19:57He'll understand.
3:19:59If you got there, say, on a Friday night and had two nights there,
3:20:03Get there Friday night, blah, blah.
3:20:08Get there Saturday night.
3:20:09It's Monday you go into Moscow.
3:20:11So you fly on Saturday.
3:20:14Get there Saturday night, spend Saturday night all day, Sunday night, and go to Moscow every morning.
3:20:20Just one day you spend in there.
3:20:22You have one more day.
3:20:23You spend one day there and two nights.
3:20:27And from there there's only a three-hour time change.
3:20:31And about a
3:20:32Five hour flight.
3:20:35Great, you can spend two days there if you want to.
3:20:38Can I know, work there?
3:20:41No.
3:20:41I prefer one day, two nights.
3:20:43Can you tell Jack this is a working place, not to be there, no, no, uh... Sir, the Prime Minister would want to come over to Shannon Creek, which would be all right, but thank you so much for staying all over there.
3:20:53No meeting with him.
3:20:54No meeting with the Prime Minister, yes sir.
3:20:58I think it's the right thing to do, because...
3:21:04He was so cooperative, and I think Morgan didn't work it out.
3:21:09There's no way you can arrive in Moscow in time for prime time in the evening here.
3:21:13Well, because you can't do it.
3:21:16Because it made our time different.
3:21:18Just don't worry about it.
3:21:19Moscow's a different kind of country.
3:21:22You can't do it.
3:21:25You just...
3:21:27Let it go on news coverage, or special coverage.
3:21:31There is no way you're going to have any prime time on the right.
3:21:38It's going to be tough, because prime time.
3:21:40It's going to be late at night.
3:21:42Yeah, two o'clock.
3:21:44See, prime time starts at Eastern.
3:21:46Eastern here at 8 o'clock.
3:21:47There, it's 2 o'clock in the morning.
3:21:49And 9 o'clock in the morning.
3:21:52It's 1 o'clock at night here.
3:21:53No way.
3:21:55You should stop it, that's all.
3:21:57So what you do there is they do a prime time review, the morning, early morning hours.
3:22:04Prime time is from 2 in the morning until 6 in the morning.
3:22:10So you just forget it.
3:22:11You don't have prime time coverage, that's all.
3:22:14But if you do it, you'll have prime time coverage by sessions.
3:22:18They'll do gun and tape, you see.
3:22:21And if you get there at 4 or 5 in the afternoon, you'll be on the team.
3:22:26All right.
3:22:26Okay.
3:22:31We'll see you later.
3:22:39That's another reason to point to everything we can get out of China, because we're not going to get live crime out of Russia.
3:22:47We will get it.
3:22:48Just remember, our European trip had the same problem.
3:22:50We didn't get any live crime out of Europe to speak of, but we got spectacular coverage because they take all those events and run a special time here.
3:23:10Best life, we'll get out of the rush, it'll be in the afternoon, but we'll get it live in the morning here.
3:23:15You'll get a great woman audience, which is very long.
3:23:18And we'll see you tonight on the replay.
3:23:23You know, I've been doing a little more things.
3:23:28From the art of birds, and also comics, I've done dinners.
3:23:40And every person, of course, has got to do whatever's best for them.
3:23:52And frankly, I just don't think I'll do them.
3:23:56I just think that, you know, for me, the way I go during the day, you know, I don't like to have to sit around being on stage at night.
3:24:08See?
3:24:09And so, why don't we just plan it that way?
3:24:13I just don't agree, also, either with Conley's political judgment or with Archer's.
3:24:17Archer's wrong on affecting the business people.
3:24:20But that he's got to have people into the White House is going to mean all that much, wouldn't it?
3:24:27Well, plus the fact that one, you've got a real problem in that if you have it, there's some people you have to have and those are the people you don't want to have because they're here all the time anyway.
3:24:36All the time.
3:24:37Business council guys and people like that.
3:24:39And it really does mean nothing to them.
3:24:41They think it's their right to come in this place.
3:24:45If you have the nine entities that it would mean something to, you've got a problem with the others.
3:24:48I don't know what the hell we're doing.
3:24:52The statement may still be worth doing something.
3:24:56Out there too.
3:24:57What do you mean, here in the White House?
3:24:59Either here or out there.
3:25:01I think you can accomplish almost as much by doing the thing out there, where you do a Q&A.
3:25:09Yeah.
3:25:09Come into their meeting in the afternoon.
3:25:14You know what I mean?
3:25:16Horror.
3:25:16Actually, that's not impressive.
3:25:18Sorry, Mr. Churchill, could I get you to sign this letter to President?
3:25:21It's not that different, so I do not think you'd want me to do this.
3:25:24A letter to you saying, you know, we work here on this.
3:25:44going in after these, going in and ordering the dinner.
3:25:50But just generally speaking, as I've often said to you, I do not like to take meals with people.
3:25:59I mean, it's just a goddamn bore for me, you know?
3:26:03I don't enjoy food, and I don't enjoy sitting around and gasping about it, and I don't enjoy small talk, you know, with people.
3:26:11So under the circumstances now, this is a problem, but an individual doesn't like it.
3:26:16God damn it, we shouldn't put it in truth.
3:26:18I think the way to do it is not do a dinner, not have a dinner, have a... maybe even act a dinner.
3:26:28You don't need to check.
3:26:30No.
3:26:32Here's the issue.
3:26:33No.
3:26:33Because that's a waste of time.
3:26:34There's nothing to do in the night anyway.
3:26:37There's no point in waiting.
3:26:38All of a sudden, you do it in the late afternoon.
3:26:40The thing to do is 5 o'clock.
3:26:41Yeah, 5 o'clock.
3:26:42Or you can always go ahead and it's a Q&A.
3:26:44They get to go home and tell their wives at dinner and so forth.
3:26:47Well, I just had about a very interesting talk with Bruce.
3:26:51At about 5 o'clock, I'm going to start the Q&A.
3:26:54And then at the end, have a receiving line shake hands with them.
3:26:58Then you leave, let them have a drink, go on home when they're ready to.
3:27:04That way they get the feeling they've chatted with you.
3:27:06They've got the Q&A.
3:27:08It's better to do the Q&A first.
3:27:12Or by all means.
3:27:13I'm not sure.
3:27:15I'm not sure.
3:27:16The receiving line wears you out.
3:27:19Yeah.
3:27:19Just wears you out.
3:27:20You won't be able to come right in and do that.
3:27:23Then at the end, they tell you, well, gee, I didn't mind.
3:27:25They did like that, which they will.
3:27:27That's what they will like.
3:27:29Then we'll have just some more dirts and cocktails.
3:27:33Just send the receiving lines over.
3:27:35You wave.
3:27:35It's all right to see y'all.
3:27:37Go on up to your room.
3:27:38You're good.
3:27:42That, I think, can be just as enormously effective.
3:27:48And you can do a pretty good size group for that.
3:27:50You can do a group of 150, 200 people.
3:27:52Take a couple hours of your time, and I wonder if it's worth doing.
3:27:58Well, I think the amount of time, the Q&A, I just wondered if the handshake didn't take that much.
3:28:07I think you've got to have the handshake.
3:28:12What kind of people you're talking about?
3:28:13Maybe we're talking about 100, though.
3:28:14All right.
3:28:16So if this would go for 70 to 100 people, at least make it really where they feel.
3:28:20But the thing is, I would get it from around the state.
3:28:22I wouldn't just have a gun.
3:28:23I mean, you don't have to go truly.
3:28:24You can have every local department, all the massive deals you've got to come in and so forth, make it to a group of leaders.
3:28:36Well, what we do in each case,
3:28:38is do have someone locally posted so that the blame is on him for who was there.
3:28:46We give him the list.
3:28:47We call him from the body.
3:28:49We work it out with our single strongest guy.
3:28:53And we do them.
3:28:56Maybe at people's houses.
3:28:58No, it's better to do it at a hotel.
3:28:59It's better to go to a hotel than to do it at a hotel.
3:29:01You get to a guy's house and you've got to get out of the car.
3:29:05Well, you know, it's not bad to drive through a suburban neighborhood at 5 o'clock in the afternoon.
3:29:09Well, then they all sit in a nice, corrupt, beautiful home.
3:29:15I don't know if they have enough chairs.
3:29:20No, you can't get 100 in a home usually.
3:29:24Well, maybe the one.
3:29:25How's anything like Paul Miller's down there?
3:29:30Yeah.
3:29:30Well, I think the hotel is really better.
3:29:31Yes, it is.
3:29:32River neighborhood to the contrary, I understand.
3:29:39We'll find a way to do that.
3:29:40Well, you might find an exception.
3:29:41There might be a place where there's a guy who has a thing like John Rollins or...
3:29:48Mark Preston Wolfe, for example, has his wig on from Ohio, where he did a big group.
3:29:50He's vising around the state, and that's a good thing to do.
3:29:57Yeah.
3:30:09This is probably better than all of the people in here.
3:30:17Also,
3:30:18All I've been in here for a strict political dinner.
3:30:25That's what worried me about the state and your idea that it was trying to put an incoloration on that, that, uh, to distribute politics.
3:30:31If I'm out in the country on an event, I just go to the state and go in there and do it.
3:30:37That's an entirely different thing.
3:30:39And the press will, you know, says, I'd like to get some people together to meet with people of color.
3:30:43Just like while you were in Alaska.
3:30:45Yeah.
3:30:45Would you have their wives?
3:30:47No.
3:30:47Maybe men.
3:30:50I sure would.
3:30:53You're going to have 100 people here, a hell of a lot better off than 150 men.
3:31:07All right.
3:31:10All right.
3:31:12Well, I have to go, don't I?
3:33:27Well, you see what I feel about that, and I don't want to hear it.
3:33:30I'm not going to deal with William's advice.
3:33:37But no, I'm telling her to do the same.
3:33:40I don't deal with her using the White House.
3:33:43That's the thing.
3:33:43An iron's idea, this is the word of the day, isn't it?
3:33:46That the idea that, well, let's get in some business, man, and everybody's at once a week, and tell them to follow us.
3:33:53You ought to have confidence in the economy.
3:33:54Now, what the hell is that going to do?
3:33:57We've been doing that, and Arthur ought to keep on doing it, and other people ought to keep on doing it, but you shouldn't.
3:34:03And so warehouse dinners do pretty good jobs on that, and they're still doing well.
3:34:09God, that's a hell of a thing to give these people.
3:34:11Certainly.
3:34:14And they apparently really enjoy it.
3:34:16They've had some damn good sessions there.
3:34:18Whatever he gets down to, of course.
3:34:26A lot of these businessmen, you know, they're talking about GMI.
3:34:30I know that.
3:34:32I know that's what they want.
3:34:34But we just have the time.
3:34:36The country's changed too much, hasn't it?
3:34:40And also, there's too much going on right now for me to sit and yak with those folks.
3:34:53Well, if you find that you'd like to do it.
3:34:55See, that's the thing they overlook.
3:34:56They think it's something that would be interesting for you, or relaxing for you, or educational for you.
3:35:06And it won't be any of those.
3:35:07It's working out for life.
3:35:09Boring, tiring, and that's about it.
3:35:12You put your finger on the point.
3:35:19Well, I think they got it.
3:35:21They can get something out of it.
3:35:24But I don't.
3:35:36There's such an incredible gap between the information that's available to the President and what all those people have.
3:35:47And what they don't realize is that anything they're going to tell you is almost 90% sure that you already know.
3:35:55And have it in a better form than they're going to get it to you.
3:35:59But sometimes it is a word.
3:36:01And let me say, if I find it valuable, somebody does come in.
3:36:07And he gives me a sort of a different feel for explaining things like that.
3:36:10Does that almost have to be individual?
3:36:11It does.
3:36:11You could do it with a group of congressmen like when they came in the bus.
3:36:16You'd think it was good to hear their views.
3:36:18That was good.
3:36:19But the point is, I do not like to mix any good in it.
3:36:23Yeah.
3:36:23I do not like to sit with people, eat with them, drink with them.
3:36:29And you can't sit there like a bump on the goddamn log and say, well, I'm not going to have a drink or something.
3:36:34You've got to do something.
3:36:37You can, but basically then you're more bored in there.
3:36:40The only way you can stand the goddamn thing is to at least get a little bit of the spirit of the party.
3:36:45It's really the truth.
3:36:48But that's a ceremony, not going to ride with a tri-diplomatic credential or a parade or a green flag or anything else, you know?
3:37:00You see, to get this moved into the social context, it's a terrible burden for me because I don't enjoy social meetings.
3:37:08What I prefer is this.
3:37:10I much prefer to sit down with a group of people and talk to them in the office for an hour.
3:37:16Just run it in, let them, bring them in, talk to them, chat with them, go on their way.
3:37:31And there's no reason why you can't do that, but you do the gathering room, maybe.
3:37:36That's the other thing.
3:37:37Food, food's in the gathering room if you want to do that, but that is, you don't have to feed people in order to, you know.
3:37:43Also, it costs a hell of a lot of money to shoot a natural cannon, you know.
3:37:48I'm sure it does.
3:37:50Even those, the dinners there are expensive as hell.
3:37:58State dinners you don't have to pay for, but the other dinners you do, or some you have to pay on political money or something.
3:38:04You have 100 guys for dinner that cost you $4,000 or $5,000.
3:38:06The $20 a person.
3:38:07It's $4.99.
3:38:08It's about $40 a person.
3:38:09Draw it on the line.
3:38:14I don't have to say they've got to hire a lot of help.
3:38:21It's very expensive.
3:38:22That would be great.
3:38:50Hi.
3:38:52Are there other ways to send the other people?
3:38:53Are there other ways to get them?
3:38:55Well, with the copies, I heard a dancer say, gee, John's a great idea.
3:38:58We're going to do it in the States.
3:39:01you can go in and you can go around and just feel that there's a better connotation.
3:39:06That would bring people in here, which everybody's going to jump on and say, you're using the White House when you sit down and can't pay for pure political terms.
3:39:13It's out there, they can ask very political questions.
3:39:18I want to be like Cesar's wife on the decision.
3:39:29Is he still here as he goes to Texas?
3:39:32He's going.
3:39:32I don't know if he's left yet.
3:39:34I think he's still there.
3:39:35He's going to a radio or something.
3:39:40I'm trying.
3:39:41At least maybe he was coming today.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on People's Republic of China and Media relations

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